Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumA German TV show helps explain why Democrats keep getting in trouble over Medicare-for-all
Washington PostBut what neither Germany nor any other country on Earth, major or minor, does is guarantee everyone health care, in the sense of assuring them all the care they want, at a price they can afford, no matter what.
Trade-offs in health care are real and not merely the result of insurance company or drug company greed though the pursuit of profit certainly can make matters worse, as the epidemic of addiction to heavily and sometimes unethically marketed prescription opioids has shown.
Even under universal coverage, people might not be covered for treatments deemed too expensive in relation to likely benefits. In fact, such systems could not work, financially, without limitations on access to specialists, devices, experimental drugs and the like.
Cost containment can irk middle-class Germans who pay a mandatory 8.2 percent of their earnings for health insurance only to find it lacking in rare extreme cases, or even non-esoteric ones.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Farmer-Rick
(10,072 posts)Medicare right now just for those older folks does not cover things like voluntary plastic surgery for minor cosmetic flaws, dental care without other major injuries, eye care without major surgery or compression stockings.
Why would anyone think Medicare for all would be any different?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Pacifist Patriot
(24,647 posts)medicare-for-all, single payer, universal healthcare, etc. means they will be paying for anyone and everyone to get any treatment they want for any ailment they have anywhere they want to get it.
Unreal, but in a conversation I had with one man a couple of weeks ago, this is precisely what he thought. And here's the kicker. He didn't want it because his tax dollars might pay for a treatment for someone whom he felt didn't deserve it or was abusing the system. He did not stop to think, "hey, if that's how it works, I'll have awesome healthcare coverage." It was all about not wanting someone else to get those (wildly unrealistic) benefits.
That's the kind of people we're talking about here. He cannot possibly be the only one in the US with those kinds of thoughts. It's the horrendous legacy of the "welfare queen" mythology.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
brooklynite
(93,884 posts)...maybe an annual checkup, or a sports injury.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
dsc
(52,130 posts)he has explicitly said it will cover dental and vision for example.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Farmer-Rick
(10,072 posts)Aftet the bill is passed it maybe very different. I think you should ask for the world and negotiate down from there. That's how the GOP does it.
But even Bernie's version doesn't allow cosmetic surgery. But you can buy private insurance for it. There are limits in Bernie's too. But the limits are on pricey voluntary procedures instead of on annual preventative procedures.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
redqueen
(115,096 posts)Common sense really.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Mouth
(3,124 posts)where there is more demand than supply.
There is more NEED for healthcare than there is, or ever will be, the ability to provide it.
Therefore there WILL be some mechanism by which it is apportioned.
Really, I can only see three methods by which it can be 'rationed:
-by the decisions of insurance company claims adjusters
-by government committee or expert(s)
-by 'free market', that is, ability to pay.
The cold, hard fact is that there are, and will be, many situations where there is ONE heart (or other organ) available for transplant, with at least two people needing it. Somehow a decision is going to be made. For most of us with health insurance, it is the claims committee or individual adjusters. For people in single-payer nations these decisions are made by 'experts', doctors + government overseers. In a theoreticalfree market, it would be who could pay the most.
These aren't mutually exclusive, and often interact.
What everyone, especially MFA Single-Payer advocates, but all of us, have to wrap our heads around is that yes, under ANY system, some people will be denied treatment. As a society we should be clear on how that happens. The brutal truth is that the resources to keep a dying 95 year old alive another two years with intensive intervention could same the lives and/or prevent permanent damage to more than one child or younger person. At some point, grandma has to go and the bed needs to be used by someone else; it's just a matter of is it a government expert, an adjuster, or running out of money.
I still prefer opt-in, but am slowly becoming convinced MFA might work, but let's be honest, choices will still have to be made.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
peggysue2
(10,811 posts)before any major healthcare overhaul has a chance in hell. People need to know and a majority of those people need to accept that universal healthcare will require trade-offs, as in not every procedure/surgery/experimental treatment will be covered.
There will be pushback.
Remember Sarah Palin's death panels? That argument will return in force with the images of granny being pushed off a cliff.
A good portion of the work ahead will be marketing the benefits of a National Healthcare Program as opposed to the vague, nebulous outlines the public has received so far, insinuating that there is no limit to what a patient can expect treatment-wise. That's simply not true. Anywhere.
Which is one of the reasons Medicare 4 All in the US will not happen quickly. Nor will health services cost containment and drug pricing be solved in a 3 or 5 year period, both of which need to be controlled for M4A to get off the ground. At best, it's going to be a long, arduous slog. Wishful thinking is not enough. In the end, that strategy--quick and easy--is cruel for the desperately ill around the country, offering promises that cannot be kept.
This is why I continue to believe that transitioning into universal healthcare through a repaired, expanded ACA, (a 2.0 program) is the best, most reasonable way to go. We can get there but it will take time and massive effort.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)criticism of no limits universal healthcare. What those people gloss over is that the Nordic countries and Germany place limits on how far they will go with each person, and they place a premium on people exercising personal responsibility for their health.
One thing that is sorely missing in our debate on healthcare is the notion that to get quality healthcare, each person must exercise personal responsibility in the choices that they make, or face the big negative consequences that the universal system won't. There are exceptions, like illnesses that just strike adults and children, even when total personal responsibility for life choices has been exercised.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to brooklynite (Original post)
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ehrnst
(32,640 posts)He's not known for being a boot licker.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Baron
Why would someone who could have his pick of pretty much any newsroom in the country work for a "corporate rag sheet?"
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to ehrnst (Reply #12)
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ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Let's leave the demonization of the legitimate free press for doing their job instead of simply flattering candidates as "hit pieces" to Trump supporters.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to ehrnst (Reply #14)
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ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Don't tell Bernie...
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/08/13/bernie-sanders-bezos-washington-post-1461360
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
betsuni
(25,142 posts)what to do? Absolutely not."
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to betsuni (Reply #16)
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ehrnst
(32,640 posts)But I have yet to hear him thank her for that.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to ehrnst (Reply #19)
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ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Oh, wait...
I didn't say that HRC was in the race - although apparently Bernie has commented that she is.
I just think it would be polite of him to thank her for pulling him to the left on social justice issues, and being a mentor to him in the Senate on working with other people.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to ehrnst (Reply #21)
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ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Says so much, doesn't it?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to ehrnst (Reply #23)
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ehrnst
(32,640 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to ehrnst (Reply #25)
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ehrnst
(32,640 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to ehrnst (Reply #27)
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ehrnst
(32,640 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to ehrnst (Reply #30)
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TexasBushwhacker
(20,044 posts)any time for anyone. You can't just go get a knee replacement because your knee hurts sometimes. You have to have substantial disability. You also can't get one if you weigh 300 pounds, because your weight will make it hard to heal properly. Your doctor will ask you to lose weight first.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden