Why no concern that black voters or older moderates will stay home if Bernie or Warren are nominated

[StarfishSaver]

instead of Biden, but we're regularly warned that young voters will opt out if the opposite occurs?

I ask because we're frequently warned that we must be very careful not to alienate young voters by nominating someone too moderate because we risk them not voting in November. But that's the only group of Democratic voters I ever see catered to that way. I never see this kind of deference or concern shown about any other demographic.

Is it ok that one segment of the party walks away if they don't get their way but other groups must vote blue no matter who?

[LonePirate]

1. I am concerned that their selfishness will destroy this country if they refuse to vote.

There are several candidates in the Dem primary who favor policies and positions that are far too close the Republican views on those positions but even if one of them wins the nomination, I will still vote blue because the consequences are too vast. I have no tolerance for Dems - old or young - who stay home in November 2020 because their preferred candidate is not on the ballot.

[Cha]

3. "There are several candidates in the Dem primary who favor policies and positions that are far too

the Republican views.."

The repubs/fascists/treasonous trumptoadies want to destroy America for putin.. I see no real Dem on the same Planet with them.

[Demsrule86]

11. I don't see any Democrats who fit this bill...buttigeig is probably the most conservative followed

by Klobachar...and while I have issues with the balance the budget stuff (never leads to anything good for us), they are nothing like Republicans.

[Cha]

12. Ikr.. why would anyone even say that?!

Mindboggling.

[LonePirate]

20. Because it is true.

There is not much daylight between some conservative Dems and Republicans like Romney and Murkowski, for instance. Maintaining the status quo and not seeking significant changes in fiscal/tax/inequality policies or health care does little to address the fundamental problems in America. We need to do more than simply defeat 45.

[StarfishSaver]

25. This kind of uniformed insistence there's no difference between us and them is one of the reasons

we're stuck with them.

[LonePirate]

31. There are differences between us and them but some people prefer candidates closer to them.

The real question is why don’t those people prefer candidates who are closer to us. Centrism will solve no problems at this country’s core.

[Demsrule86]

37. Running as a moderate does not make you magat-like...there is nothing moderate about

magats.

[Cha]

55. That's how we got the House Victory in 2018..

Mostly center left moderates.. that's doing us a hellava lot of good.

Think Louisiana and Kentucky Govs, too, in 2019.

[Demsrule86]

68. Sometimes you don't get your candidate as the nominee...but whoever is chosen is always

better than any Republican...some need (not saying you) to put on their big girl and big boy panties and vote blue no matter who.

[KPN]

87. I think that's exactly what LonePirate said

without any vitriol.

[LonePirate]

93. That is exactly what I said. I will be voting blue not matter what.

Even if our candidate is someone I dislike (and I would only dislike them based on their policy positions as I think all of our nominees are good people at their core, unlike 45), I will still vote for that person. Staying home and not voting is not an option. Everyone needs to adopt that same stance.

[KPN]

105. Yup. That's what I heard.

[Cha]

26. You just made a serious accusation about the

Dems in the primary.. care to give some proof of which ones you're accusing of being like repubs?

[LonePirate]

27. Look up their policies and decide for yourself.

[Cha]

29. Can't do, eh? just a general bashing of our Dems.

Nothing to back it up.

[LonePirate]

33. I can but you are fully capable of performing a Google search without my assistance.

[Cha]

36. No.. I don't think you can.

[redstateblues]

138. Hey Cha- somebody's playing dodgeball!

[Cha]

140. Yeah, at our

expense.

[Dream Girl]

46. You put it out there, you need to back it up.

Who are you anyway?

[bearsfootball516]

99. The burden of proof falls on you.

When you make an accusation like that, you have to back up what you’re saying. Otherwise you just look silly and misinformed.

[redstateblues]

139. Evidence please

[SterlingPound]

176. christ look at the long line of passive agreessive biden bros

This site sucks please delete my account

[Demsrule86]

42. Both Romney and Murkowski are Republicans...and Romney planned to kill the ACA on day one...you

should delete this. No Democrat is the same as any Republican.

[squirecam]

106. Yes

Even the most conservative Dem (Manchin) is light years from them.

This kind of stuff never helps.

[Demsrule86]

110. Manchin is the best we will ever do in WVA...I pray he decides to stay in the Senate and not

run for governor. I should not say 'ever'. I do believe we can make a case for progressive policy...we just haven't done it yet.

[Demsrule86]

43. So anyone who is not for M4A or a wealth tax is a Republican...got it...I think you are wrong.

And the majority of Democratic voters do not agree with these policies or Warren would be way ahead.

[Demsrule86]

47. What candidate are you referring to? None of our candidates are like Republicans.

And I will be happy if we manage to defeat Trump...the 'need to do more' kind of shows where this is going.

[MineralMan]

62. That sounds awfully close to saying Democrats and Republicans are all alike.

I don't know if you remember this, but that got us in all sorts of trouble last time. Please let's not do that again. Thanks.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

119. THIS!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Demsrule86]

34. I agree...none of our candidates resemble any form of magat...none.

[Cha]

38. But, she's insisting..

[Demsrule86]

71. I do not understand how anyone can say Democrats and Republicans are the same...and she

is talking about our presidential candidates...one of whom will be the nominee...more my way or the highway.

[Gothmog]

77. I remember Nader telling us that there is no difference between Gore and Bush

Nader helped elect Bush and got us the Iraq War, Citizens United and the gutting of the Voting Rights Act

[Gothmog]

72. The most important thing is to nominate a candidate who can beat trump

Neither sanders nor Warren will be able to beat trump. In addition, sanders or Warren as the nominee will kill down ballot candidates. Taking away 160 million voters private insurance is a good way to lose down ballot races

[Dem4Life1102]

85. That is a lie

Stop trashing Dem candidates.

[evertonfc]

2. anyone

that stays home in 2020 is in opposition to democracy and i have zero use for. I mean, wtf!!...Please, please don't bitch, moan or throw yourself a fucking pity party if you stay home and Trump is the beneficiary. I have a 18 year old and told him- forget the nominee, this is about removing Trump and if you don't care, don't act as if you are somehow misaligned going forward.

[JudyM]

5. We need to fight aggressively vs the blurring of truth if we want the votes of less informed folks.

The media are not held to a standard of truth telling. People aren’t necessarily opposed to democracy if they are not interested as we are in the drama of what’s happening politically. They have other demands in their lives, so it our responsibility to make things as clear as possible. That’s what our House members apparently saw, and crafted the hearings accordingly. But there’s still endless obfuscation, and not just by faux and company.

[Fiendish Thingy]

90. And yet the youth vote could be the essential key to victory in 2020

Instead of "my (moderate) way or the highway", shouldn't the approach be "what kind of government and future do you want for this country?", and then listen to the response?

Young voters stay home because they aren't being listened to by most candidates.

[StarfishSaver]

94. Every segment of the Democratic electorate is essential to victory, some more than others

And the youth vote has not proven to be reliable or sustained enough to merit kicking everyone else to the curb in order to obtain it.

[still_one]

4. Excellent point. Of course The reason is because they are taken for granted just like the African

American vote is

Ironically, those that subscribe to the view, either my candidate or nothing, are cutting off their nose to spite their face

How did that work out for them in 2016?

[StarfishSaver]

7. Do you really think you by voters are taken for granted?

[Skya Rhen]

6. The "he-doesn't-excite-me-young-voters" really need to be called out more. I hear threats

from this group of voters (that they won't be excited enough to come out to vote) more than any other group...

[Cha]

8. I know.. "yawn".. "why should we be

excited to beat trump?" "yawn some more". It's only our Planet!

[StarfishSaver]

15. Young people have always thought they invented dynamic politics

and needed to tell everyone else how to to it right. We did when I first started voting

The difference is that "back in my day," the older, more experienced people didn't jump to our command, but instead listened to our input and then let us eventually learn from them how things worked and how to make things happen. They were also open to learning from us ways adjust their way of doing things to be more effective with younger people in changing times. But we didn't constantly tell them how clueless and wrong they were and how they'd screwed everything up for us - and if we had tried, they'd have laughed us out of the room and gone right on a out their business. One of the things I learned was that more often than not, when I was sure they were doing it all wrong and I knew a better way for them to do everything, there was actually a very good reason they were doing things the way they were and not my way.

But now it seems to me that too many people are letting the tail wag the dog.

I just don't have a lot of patience for someone born after my sixth presidential campaign lecturing me about politics and demanding that I do things their way or they're going to refuse to participate.

Yeah, I said it.

[The Mouth]

21. WOW!

Well Said.

Yeah, each generation thinks it invented political activism. Sex, too.

[Demsrule86]

73. My Grandmother told my sister and I that...haha.

[TidalWave46]

45. .

[crazytown]

103. Lucky Obama didn't depend on young voters.

No Dem president since the war would have been elected without a majority of young voters. Older voters as a whole are more conservative.

[Dream Girl]

59. Ok boomer.

[Cha]

63. lol.. not a boomer..

a war baby.. worse!

Dream Girl

[Demsrule86]

13. I am f'ing sick of the the threats...and if many followed up their twitter chatter with votes.

Sanders would have been running in the general in 16. They don't vote as much as they tweet. My daughter's hard core friends didn't bother to vote in 16 in the general...a few voted for Stein...but most had more important things to do...so I would not twist ourselves into knots and lose reliable voters like AA voters in order to appease this crowd. My kids understand the score and all voted for Hillary...everyone in my family did except one magat cousin.

[StarfishSaver]

30. So true

I often engage with young people who are frustrated or angry about one issuebor another. but when I say, "what are you doing about it? Have you written a letter, or called, or had a meeting, etc," the response all too often is "No, but I tweeted it out."

I'm constantly trying to get young folk to understand that, while Twitter can be an effective advocacy TOOL when used as part of a larger strategy, tweeting is not, in and of itself, activism.

[Demsrule86]

66. I know what you mean...we always have younguns show up for campaign volunteers and a few

stay, but it is hard work and kind of depressing at times...when the door is slammed in your face or you have rude people on the phone...hell one guy threatened to sick his dog on me when I was campaigning for Obama in Ohio...my reply (was terrified) "was it would be a shame to have to kill such a fine animal; I do hope you reconsider". Dem roles still showed some as Democrats who clearly were not Democrats anymore in 08...I remember refusing to knock on door on houses that had confederate flags... But I digress, the point is most of these kids don't stay...and many are in school so they have demanding schedules and honestly quite a few do not enjoy live person interactions. My kid's friends sit home quite a bit and interact on media-no much getting together. I have seen them sit in a room and text each other even when no adult was present. At their age, I was raising hell and out with my friends every weekend. My poor parents deserve sainthood after raising five hellions.

[StarfishSaver]

69. IkR?

We've found common ground.

[Demsrule86]

74. We always had common ground...we are Democrats! And I enjoy your posts...

[Fiendish Thingy]

91. This may be the last election where Boomers outnumber young voters

As a share of the electorate. Dems ignore young voters at their peril. Once the young voters realize the true force of their electoral power, they will be in control, and us Boomers will be the ones begging to be listened to.

[Demsrule86]

16. I agree...Hillary should not say anything about 16 or Sanders at this moment...she should not

endorse either...honestly...it will do more harm than good.

[StarfishSaver]

19. Hillary's response to you telling her to shut up:

[Demsrule86]

28. What is the point? The idea is to win an election. I love Hillary and worked my butt off for her

last time...but going after Sanders could cause us to have the same sort of thing as 16. I think she will be careful...we must get rid of Trump.

Sadly, the right has succeeded in the demonetization of Hillary and Bill as well which is a damn shame. He is one of the most gifted politicians ever.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

40. We need to move on from 2016!! Hillary should be uniting Democrats!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Demsrule86]

53. I agree with you. We need to be united.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

58. So should Bernie.

Please mention that to David Sirota, Nina Turner and the other fans of Jill Stein who are trashing Democrats and the party on behalf of his campaign.

[Demsrule86]

75. Yeah you are right too...a bad situation.

[progressoid]

132. Paleeeze. What kind of audience does Sirota or Turner have compared to Clinton?

She has a larger audience and bigger platform than Sirota, Turner, etc combined. HRC just got an hour and a half on Stern's show.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

133. The size of the audience is irrelevant to the message.

Anyhow, stuff gets tweeted all over the place. You don't have to be on TV any more.

[progressoid]

135. Sirota has 2838 followers on Twitter. Clinton has 26 million.

Even if every one of his tweets were retweeted 9000 times by his followers it wouldn't come close to her outreach.

[StarfishSaver]

142. Which tells me that a whole hell of a lot of people are interested in what she has to say

So much for the "Shut up and go away Hillary" demands. Apparently, at least 26 million people disagree with the Hillary shushers.

[progressoid]

145. The issue is "what" she says.

Like it or not, she is a very polarizing politician. Even within the Democratic party. The best for the party at this point is for her to sit back and watch without comment on particular candidates. Like Obama and others are.

[StarfishSaver]

147. LOL

Telling a woman with 26 million follower what she should and shouldn't say and instructing her that it's better if she just sit back, watch without comment because she's TOO popular.

I have a feeling if she had 1 million followers instead of 26 million you'd be telling her to be quiet because her lack of followers was proof that no one cared what she had to say.

But it doesn't matter. Hillary's not listening to you and is going to say whatever she damned well pleases. And I suspect that only a handful of Hillary haters are going to continue to object.

[msongs]

115. which candidate repeatedly makes derogatory remarks about the democratic party? nt

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

117. You are right about Hillary... she should not be criticizing fellow Democrats.

Time to unite, not fight, ourselves!!


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

136. She isn't criticizing a fellow Democrat.

[StarfishSaver]

137. Boom!

[StarfishSaver]

22. Lol. Nothing like jumping in to throw shade on Hillary for "throwing shade"

Almost as ridiculous as Democrats trying to tell our previous nominee to shut up and stop talking about her own race and the guy who ran against her, while they talk incessantly about her race and the guy who ran against her.

[happy feet]

52. Yup

[betsuni]

155. +1

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

35. You're so right about Hillary... she needs to move on and stop the devisive comments re Bernie.

We have to be united like never before if we are to defeat Dolt45.


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[StarfishSaver]

44. Hillary is so four years ago

Say people who support the guy who couldn't beat her four years ago but still thinks he should be president.

[StarfishSaver]

65. Hillary saying something you don't agree with doesn't make her comment "divisive."

Funny how Bernie says pretty much whatever he wants to say pretty much how and whenever he wants to say it and he's just speaking truth. But if someone says something true about him, they're being "divisive" and need to shut up. The only think divisive about what Hillary said is the fact that some of Bernie's more ardent supporters are irrationally triggered by any comment about their guy that falls short of fawning admiration.

[Demsrule86]

76. I just don't want a repeat of 16. Trump must go.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

80. Tell that to Bernie's campaign people.

Shortly before he gave speeches launching his 2020 campaign earlier this month, Bernie Sanders emailed his supporters, urging them to “do our very best to engage respectfully with our Democratic opponents—talking about the issues we are fighting for, not about personalities or past grievances. I want to be clear that I condemn bullying and harassment of any kind and in any space.”

What he didn’t include was that one of the people already advising him and helping him write those launch speeches is one of his most famously aggressive supporters online.

Since December, David Sirota has, on Twitter, on the website Capital & Main, and in columns in The Guardian, been trashing most of Sanders’s Democratic opponents—all without disclosing his work with Sanders—and has been pushing back on critics by saying that he was criticizing the other Democrats as a journalist.* He centered many of his attacks on Beto O’Rourke, but he also bashed Kamala Harris, Cory Booker, Joe Biden, Kirsten Gillibrand, Michael Bennet, John Hickenlooper, Mike Bloomberg, and even Andrew Cuomo.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/03/sanders-promised-civility-hired-twitter-attack-dog/585259/

[ritapria]

10. The older voters , inclined to be more moderate, always turn out

It's the young people who need to be motivated to vote, volunteer . . Barack Obama produced a tidal wave of support amongst POC and, to a slightly lesser degree, young people - particularly in 2008 . . He beat McCain by 7% in the popular vote in 2008.

[Demsrule86]

23. The issue is not older Democrats...it is the independents we need who will turn out for Biden...but

maybe not for other candidates so much...if we look at the midterms and the recent elections...we need to have a candidate who is perceived as a moderate. Trump could win...the popular meme is that 'anyone could beat him' It is not true... the GOP is not supporting conviction and this is not because they think Trump is innocent but because Trump voters...Republican voters still support Trump. He will have between 40 or 45 % of the vote at the start and could easily eke out an EC win in the rust belt...this election is going to be a tough one. And we need to win purple to red states in order to regain the senate without which we have no chance to confirm judges.

Biden can help with senate races in Arizona and Georgia and we need to hold the house. Impeachment without conviction was always a political risk. I get that we had no choice given Trump's criminality and out and out failure to uphold his oath of office responsibilities but still we could lose the house. 40 moderates gave us the house...run a candidate who the right successfully brands as a socialist and we could lose it all. This is what gives me nightmares.

[StarfishSaver]

49. Why should moderate voters turn out for a more progressive candidate who doesn't excite them?

It sounds like you're just taking black and older voters for granted - "they'll turn out no matter what" - but think younger voters who just showed up at the party should get their butts kissed.

Why not the other way around? Haven't black and older voters earned right to be respected a d catered to while young voters still have a lot of work to do before getting to call the shots?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

60. Older and black voters have always been the most reliable voters.

Too many young voters demand to be excited or they won't bother.

[kcr]

14. Because older voters are more reliable. That's simply a fact.

[Demsrule86]

174. So we should take them for granted and just nominate someone they don't like?

That is a recipe for disaster if you ask me.

[aeromanKC]

17. I'm not worried so much

because I'm confident neither Bernie or Warren will be the nominee. AND Trump wiil not expand his base from 2016 and the DEMs will!!

[TidalWave46]

18. Great op.

The weaponization of the youth vote is an "excellent" tactic by fringe groups. It's a time honored tradition that fringe groups are more attractive to many young people and history shows that many questionable organization specifically target young people. When looking at photo's or video of the White Nationalist marching in Charleston they are overwhelming what we consider to be the youth vote. Trump has done a pretty good job of mobilizing a good amount of young people, for a Republican.

My point is that when you are a fringe group you don't have many things to make threats with. You use that one and damn near only asset you possess.

Of course there is the entitlement aspect, as well. And that is not just the youth. It's also about most of the people making the threats. Not all, of course.

[Fiendish Thingy]

92. This may be the last election where Boomers outnumber young voters

As a portion of the electorate.

Young voters aren't being "weaponized", they're getting organized (thanks AOC et al).

Democrats ignore young voters at their own peril - they will be in charge very soon.

[StarfishSaver]

95. There's a difference between "ignoring" and not catering to them to the exclusion of other voters

[TidalWave46]

96. "This may be the last election where Boomers outnumber young voters"

That's going to happen as people die. Simple fact of life. And then millenials like Buttigieg find stability and aren't sold and fringe bullshit.

Millennial Pete rocks.

"Democrats ignore young voters at their own peril - they will be in charge very soon."

There is the threat. The threat that makes no sense. Really backs up my point. Cause we know people hold the same ideology as they age. How do you look at something so fluid and talk about it ten year out as if it's static? You have to be able to see that. You literally just made up a claim without merit in order to use others as a threat.

[NurseJackie]

24. Two reasons...

Why no concern that black voters or older moderates will stay home if Bernie or Warren are nominated

Two reasons: 1) Both of those groups have the maturity to understand what's at stake, they reliably turn out to vote, they don't put their hurt-feelings above all else, they don't feel the need to get revenge or teach the party a lesson, they are smart enough to not become a victim of "falling in love" with a candidate or getting caught in the "cult of personality" trap. And, 2) Neither Elizabeth Warren nor BS will be our party's nominee.

Is it ok that one segment of the party walks away if they don't get their way but other groups must vote blue no matter who?

That appears to be the case in the minds of many short-sighted voters who place more value in their pride and vanity than they do anything else... more than our nation, more than the world, more than the most vulnerable among us.

Yeah, that's right Susan Sarandon and Nina Turner and Briahna Joy Gray... I'm looking at you!

[Demsrule86]

50. Nailed it!!! +1000

[StarfishSaver]

97. Perfectly said, as usual!

[Baked Potato]

111. Thanks for this!

Agreed.

[RelativelyJones]

32. A lot of the people who claim to speak for younger voters seem a bit self-appointed.

I think most young voters are horrified by Trump and not likely to go along with the "you must inspire me above all or I stay home" crowd.

[DAngelo136]

39. Where do you get that s*it from?

What makes you think Black folks will stay home if Biden doesn't get the nomination? Before Obama, Black Democrats voted regularly and for white candidates. If anything, y'all should keep your eye on white women; they were the ones who voted FOR Trump in those key districts.
And how many times do I have to hear, ad nauseum, about how candidates have to attract the "White, male middle class" vote? C'mon.
We're not "Bernie Bros", but you can't take us for granted,either.
Just do the right thing and they'll get the votes. Meanwhile, stop questioning our loyalties or our dependability; it's insulting.

https://www.vox.com/identities/2019/11/4/20926701/black-voters-democratic-primary-2020

[StarfishSaver]

51. Read my OP again

[Iliyah]

41. Not in my neck of the woods . .

They will vote for whomever the Democratic Nom is.

Fearful of what shithole and the Republican party is doing to the economy and democracy, they will show up and vote in huge numbers.

[Merlot]

48. Older voters are a more reliable voting block,

younger voters don't turn out in high numbers unless motivated.

[StarfishSaver]

54. So, we take older and black voters for granted while smooching the tender bottoms of the young folk?

When we make an effort to "motivate" minority voters, we're accused of playing the verboten "identity politics" but it's fine to go our way to engage in identity politics to "motivate" young voters?

[Demsrule86]

82. You made me spit out my coffee...damn it. One of the things I learned after working with POC

volunteers and actually having POC friends ...is this is not a monolithic group....they have all sorts of ideas and opinions just like anyone else. This should have been evident to me before but...I just never thought about it. Some still see the group but miss the individuals.

[Fresh_Start]

56. because it is taken for granted the older or black voters

will continue to be realistic and responsible instead of being whiny pissants

[at140]

61. Where did you get this ridiculous idea?

Older African-Americans will benefit with Warren/Sanders agenda since not many of them are in the top 1%.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

118. It's so obvious... but glad you said it, since the notion has apparently escaped some people.

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Act_of_Reparation]

64. I'm fairly concerned.

If Joe Biden and young voters, and Liz Warren and black voters, are mutually exclusive then we're all in very deep shit.

[StarfishSaver]

67. I don't think Warren and black voters are a problem

If she's the nominee, black voters will turn out for her. My point is that black and older voters don't threaten to pour and stay home if their favorite doesn't win - and no one caters to them as if they would.

[Act_of_Reparation]

78. It's difficult to assess the threat.

There are people who threaten to stay home or vote third party if their candidate doesn't make the cut, and then there are people who aren't particularly engaged, and who only show up to vote once in a blue moon if a candidate appeals to them.

I think most young voters fit into the latter category. In their case, it isn't malice... just apathy (no excuse, I know, but apathy is more easily reversed, I think). I don't know a whole lot about black voting trends, though. Do black folks generally vote more reliably than people 35 and under?

[mr_lebowski]

86. This (nt)

[Gothmog]

70. If sanders or Warren is the nominee, we can kiss Texas goodbye as a battleground state

I and a good number of real Democrats have been working hard for a long time to turn Texas blue. In 2018, we picked up two congressional seats (Colin Allred and Lizzie Fletcher) and 12 state house seats. We need 9 more state house seats to take control of the Texas house and block any partisan gerrymandering in the 2021 session of the Texas legis. The DCCC and the state party are targeting six congressional districts and we have targeted 17 state house seats. John Cornyn is one of the 10 most endangered members of the Senate and we could pick up this seat

If Warren or sanders is the nominee, we can kiss these efforts goodbye. Warren or sanders would kill down ballot races and I suspect that Lizzie and Colin could be voted out.

I will support the nominee of the party but I really want to put Texas in play this cycle which will not happen with either sanders or Warren on the top of the ticket

[Demsrule86]

83. And most likely Arizona and Georgia as well...hell I hope we keep the house.

[Gothmog]

100. I would hate to see the progress in Arizona and Georgia be set back

I agree that we would be at risk of losing the House

[squirecam]

109. Don't fear monger

We won’t lose the house with any dem nominee. We won’t gain seats, and we could lose a few, but we won’t lose our majority. We also won’t get the senate though I’m not sure we would without an Obama level nominee.

[Demsrule86]

175. I don't think that is true...we risk the house by forcing red state Democrats to vote for articles

of impeachment already...and if we nominate a left left candidate, we could lose the house which we only have because we elected moderates to the house...sure they won on the ACA but now we run on taking it away...bad bad idea.

[Demsrule86]

112. It could be a real shit show...and some assume everyone hates Trump as much

as we do... I don't know if that is true...I mean we can't get the Senate to convict...he is a crook...obvious to any person really.

[progressoid]

134. "real Democrats"??

[Gothmog]

161. Real Democrats are working hard to turn Texas blue

I have been working many years to turn Texas blue and we are seeing progress. The Texas democratic Party is going to turn Texas blue. After the 2016 elections, the GOP had a 20 seat advantage in the Texas House (which was down from a 51 seat majority after 2010 election). For the 2011 session of the Texas legislature, the GOP had a 101 to 49 seat majority in the Texas house. We picked up 12 state house seats in 2018 and have a good chance to pick up the nine seats needed to take over the Texas House. In my county we now have two open state house seats in that Rick Miller (a major homophobe) is not running and Eliz Markowitz is in a special election with GOP candidate who abused his kids by forcing them to take medication to cause these children to vomit if they ate something he did not approve of. The DCCC has targeted six congressional districts including the one where I live in. I have been supporting Sri Preston Kulkarni for Tx CD 22 as well as Lizzie Fletcher for Tx CD 7 and Colin Allgood in Dallas. MJ Hegar has a good chance of beating Cornyn for Senate.

Texas will turn blue and the GOP will be unable to win the electoral college after this happens. There are a large number of real democrats who are working their butts off to turn Texas blue

[at140]

150. Texas is a battleground state?

In which year did Texas Electoral votes went for a democratic candidate for president?

[Gothmog]

160. I voted for Jimmy Carter in 1976

When (and not if) Texas turns blue, the GOP will not be able to win the electoral college. The current demographic trends show that Texas will turn blue which is why the GOP has been trying to suppress the vote.

I and good number of other hard core democrats have been working many years to turn Texas blue and we are seeing progress. After the 2016 elections, the GOP had a 20 seat advantage in the Texas House (which was down from a 51 seat majority after 2010 election). For the 2011 session of the Texas legislature, the GOP had a 101 to 49 seat majority in the Texas house. We picked up 12 state house seats in 2018 and have a good chance to pick up the nine seats needed to take over the Texas House. In my county we now have two open state house seats in that Rick Miller (a major homophobe) is not running and Eliz Markowitz is in a special election with GOP candidate who abused his kids by forcing them to take medication to cause these children to vomit if they ate something he did not approve of. The DCCC has targeted six congressional districts including the one where I live in. I have been supporting Sri Preston Kulkarni for Tx CD 22 as well as Lizzie Fletcher for Tx CD 7 and Colin Allgood in Dallas. I strongly believe that Warren or sanders would kill these efforts.

[Mike Nelson]

81. I've heard both concerns...

... that Biden won't "excite" young voters and Sanders or Warren would not gain "moderate" votes. Personally, I think the voters are excited... last time, many felt, Hillary will win, so I don't need to be excited (ie vote); that is over, as the midterm proved. I do think the concern you brought up is the greater one. I think Warren would "move center" but not Sanders. Just my opinion...

[Dem4Life1102]

84. Because Black and older moderates are responsible citizens

who will vote no matter what and not a bunch of spoiled brats who will take their ball and go home if they don't get their way.

[Act_of_Reparation]

104. Ok boomer.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

121. Does that make you a really awesome dude to say that? Does ageism help Democrats?

[Lordquinton]

122. Is this satire?

Serious question here.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

124. I had the same question.

[Lordquinton]

125. Why only this comment?

The spoiled brat comment was pretty ageist, and the response was in kind.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

127. I'm human. I don't see everything. Sorry. . . . nt

[Lordquinton]

128. You saw the reply and not what they were responding to?

[MarcA]

123. So "Boomer" is "ageism" but "spoiled brats" isn't? n/t

[Bernardo de La Paz]

126. Two wrongs make a right? Nope. . . nt

[Act_of_Reparation]

173. Boomers crying ageism...

...are this decade's white men crying "reverse racism".

Being in charge means getting hit with a few tomatoes from time to time. Sorrynotsorry.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

177. Who says we are boomers? Who says we are in charge of anything. Your ageist attack is direct,

... not reverse.

As well as being blanket and prejudiced as you are pre-judging all boomers the same.

Just stop before you dig your hole deeper.

[Dem4Life1102]

141. Yet no refutation of what I said

[Act_of_Reparation]

166. There's no need to refute ridiculous propositions.

Anyone with one functional sensory organ and one ambulatory appendage can look up voting trends among the young and old over the past century. I don't need to explain to everyone why "young people are irresponsible for not showing up in significant enough numbers to counter the categorically insane political preferences of the 45+ demographic" isn't a position worthy of serious discussion.

[Dem4Life1102]

167. Actually it is

worthy of discussion.

[Act_of_Reparation]

168. I understand why you would feel that way.

I'd be pretty salty if more than half of my age group voted for Donald Trump, too.

[Dem4Life1102]

169. You don't know my age group

So don't assume anything.

[Act_of_Reparation]

170. Does your age somehow alter reality?

I can appreciate why you'd rather discuss the accuracy of my sarcastic wit, but I find the topic of voters aged 45 and over supporting Donald Trump far more fascinating, and ultimately more germane to conversation at hand. No doubt you have some very valuable insight into why these totes responsible and not-all-selfish paragons of civic duty voted for the "grab 'em by the pussy" guy, while the stupid selfish Gen Z voted overwhelmingly for the Democratic candidate..

Maybe when we've finished having our VERY SERIOUS DISCUSSION about "responsible" people who support unstable crypto-fascists, you can tell me why you think it's reasonable to criticize about 9% of the population for not making up more than 13% of the 2016 turnout.

Or, we could just skip to the end.

[Dem4Life1102]

171. No it doesn't alter reality

about younger voters nor do your attempts to divert from that issue.

[lark]

88. I also have concerns about independents.

My sister is Independent, but definitely left leaning - however she is a CPA so somewhat biased for business. She can't stand Warren or sanders and is considering sitting out the election if they are the other choice. The only thing that would possibly make her vote for them is drumpf - she realizes what an existential danger he is. I talk to her all the time about Warren isn't bad for business, she's a believer in capitalism. But I can tell you, the only candidates she'd support enthusiastically would be Biden, Klobuchar or Bullock.

Me, I'm a true believer and will vote for anyone with the D behind their name in the general.

[Fiendish Thingy]

89. Is there evidence that these groups will stay home if Sanders or Warren is the nominee?

We know that young voter turnout tends to be far lower than their share of the electorate, but when young voter turnout is above average, Democrats win big.

Is there corresponding data for POC and older moderates? I haven't seen it. Both groups have higher turnout rate than young voters, and so their power at the polls is more clearly accounted for. The power of young voters (either by showing up or staying home) is grossly under appreciated and under valued.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

120. Zero evidence!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[loyalsister]

98. I trust Black voters more than older white moderates

I don't care if they stay home but don't want to see them vote for Trump. With that equation in mind I want a candidate who does appeal most to both Black voters and younger voters. I also think the support Biden has from Black voters very well may reflect low expectations of the white moderate voters. And I don't think they are wrong in that. But I would prefer to not return to kinder gentler white supremacy where white fragility is an unchallenged perspective and white people regularly rely on associations and historical cosmetics as a political alibi rather than admit to errors and work to do better.
I trust Warren on that more than Biden or Sanders.

[Gothmog]

101. Joe Biden- If we move too far left, we will lose to Trump

Link to tweet

[KPN]

102. Why no concern? Seems to me there's been plenty of concern voiced about that here at DU.

How many times have we heard something to the effect that Buttigieg, Warren or Sanders doesn’t have broad support in the black community? We’ve even heard Booker doesn’t enjoy the same broad support among the black community as Joe Biden.

There have also been many plainly made statements of concern re: just about any candidate other than Biden would result in lower turnout among blacks, independents and moderate Ds.

My point is, it’s a problem we all face, regardless of our preferred candidate. And all of the concerns are legitimate. It’s the current nature of the Democratic Party, and the concern is legitimate on all sides.

We just all have to commit to going to the polls in November 2020 and vote for whoever our nominee is — regardless of who we preferred. Frankly, I think this is a point that each and everyone of our candidates should be making at every stop throughout the primary. They need to encourage strong debate through but unity after the primary. Hearing that routinely from our own preferred candidates might inspire commitment to vote and unity of force at the polls come November.

[lynintenn]

107. As a moderate democrat in a very red state surrounded by red sates

I can tell you that EW and BS do not play well here. The southern democrat tends to be much more conservative. I attend monthly democratic party meetings and a monthly all-female luncheon. Most in attendance are over 60 and have as many black voters as white and they do not like BS. I could see some staying home rather than voting from him. We have discussed not being excited about any of the candidates but likely would vote for Biden. I think if BS or EW were nominated it will go the way of Hillary Clinton in 16. Trump will be re-elected. My grandson who lives in Iowa voted for BS in the primary but went independent in the general. He said he regretted his vote both times. He likes Pete but knows it is not likely a gay man would be elected to the WH in 2020 although he seems to be the best candidate. Too many jumped into this race too soon.

[matt819]

108. Is this along the lines of "some people say"?

Blacks won't vote for anyone but Biden.

No men will vote for Warren.

Young people won't vote for old candidates.

And on and on and on.

Not everyone will be thrilled with whoever the nominee is. That's a fact of political life.

But remember, whoever wins the nomination will already have won over a substantial number of Democratic voters.

That candidate will then get the spend the campaign shoring up support among populations that might not be convinced, whether those are young people, old people, white people, black people, Hispanics, Muslims, whatever. I think it's fair to say that those of us on DU will vote for whoever gets the nomination. I'm well beyond a yellow dog democrat. I would vote for a tree stump if the polls showed that the tree stump would beat trump or any other republican. And it will be up to the nominee to GOTV for those democrats are are committed only to their candidate and who would rather stay home than vote for the gay guy or the woman the old man. And you know what? If they can't do that, or if the populace is too weak and shallow and feckless to get out to vote, then as a nation we deserve what we may end up with.

[Demsrule86]

113. No one deserves that...hell on earth if Trump is reelected and it won't end...with the courts firmly

in righty control.

[JoeOtterbein]

129. +1000! nt

[Tiggeroshii]

114. I don't think the is much evidence to support either claim

[Lexee]

116. Warren is a productive leader of the Democratic Party. I do not put her next to Sanders.

[tirebiter]

131. Binary thinking conerns me. A lot

Hillary Clinton retained the Black vote. Just not in the numbers necessary. It's not a matter of losing a whole block but just enough of it.

[helpisontheway]

143. My AA father in law voted for Reagan two times when he was active duty..

He has voted for democrats since then. He lives in TN. He hates Trump even more than I do. He does not like Warren or Sanders at all. He only discussed Warren when he was here. He said she is too far left for him. I did not ask him what he would do if she was the nominee.

[progressoid]

144. What guarantee is there that they will show up for Biden?

They didn't show up for Hillary.

A new study co-authored by political science professors and a policy analyst from the think tank Demos finds that Donald Trump’s electoral college victory in November depended heavily on an increase in white voter turnout and an even bigger decrease in turnout among African-American voters—particularly in the key swing states of Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania.

Comparing data from the voter file vendor Catalist and the U.S. Census Bureau, the researchers concluded: “Without those shifts in turnout from various racial and ethnic groups, these pivotal states might have gone not to Trump but to Clinton — giving Clinton an electoral college victory.”

The study, published Monday in the Washington Post‘s Monkey Cage blog, found that between 2012 and 2016, white voter turnout jumped 2.4 percent nationally, while black voter turnout fell 4.7 percent.

The split was even more dramatic in the midwestern states that tipped the scales for Trump. In Ohio, black voter turnout dropped 7.5 percent; in Wisconsin, it declined 12.3 percent; and in Michigan, it was down 12.4 percent.

[StarfishSaver]

146. I notice stories about this always ignore the role voter suppression played in these key states.

In many instances, lower black voter turnout was less about lack of interest and support and more due to the fact that: 1) the 2012 comparison was pre-Shelby, virtually a different era and 2) the black vote was actively suppressed in 2016 thanks to Shelby.

[progressoid]

148. Voter suppression is a problem. But they still showed up and voted in 2018 post-Shelby

Last edited Fri Dec 6, 2019, 06:56 PM - Edit history (1)

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[SMC22307]

157. Well, that blows the OP's premise.

Seems blacks weren't as enthused about Hillary as they were for Obama, but realized their colossal mistake and turned out for the midterms.

Voters really gotta get past this personality contest/identity politics bullshit and vote Dem NO MATTER WHAT.

[StarfishSaver]

159. You've clearly missed my premise completely.

In fact, it sounds as if you didn't even read the OP.

[booley]

149. not sure I understand the premise

Firstly, how exactly is Bernie Sanders of Elizabeth Warren alienating black voters and moderates? They would benefit from Sander's policies same as the rest.

Secondly, there are now more young voters than old. When did we stop wanting new voters in favor of an ever shrinking base?

[walkingman]

151. Like those that stayed at home last time - don't whine if Trump gets re-elected.

[underthematrix]

152. I'm old and moderate and African American (woman)

and no way would I stay home if the nominee was Sanders or Warren. I'd vote for either one in a New York minute. This is about keeping out constitutional republic. It doesn't matter if I voted for a different candidate in the primaries. WE MUST win the White House, keep the House, win the senate and as many govships and state houses as possible.

[cwydro]

153. I see it all the time here.

AA voters won’t vote for “fill in the blank.”

Any voter, any age or race, is a fricking moron if they stay home.

[AncientGeezer]

154. It's their choice....it's ok

"Is it ok that one segment of the party walks away if they don't get their way but other groups must vote blue no matter who? "
It sucks .... but again..it's their choice.
Yes it's ok...it's how it works.

[amywalk]

156. What's wrong with Elizabeth Warren? I'm serious. ( I'm ducking now)

What are the reasons to hate Elizabeth Warren?

[emmaverybo]

158. Thank you for your post, StarfishSaver. We should be very concerned. AA support may change.

But the fact remains that we should be concerned—not solely for the AA votes needed to win, but
because we all should be concerned about African Americans, their political perspectives, who they want to lead America, their voices.

[aikoaiko]

162. Because we are told they are the base and the base votes

If they don’t vote for Bernie or Elizabeth then they are not the base some people claim.

[StarfishSaver]

163. If that's the case, shouldn't AA voters be treated with MORE deference, not less than other voters

who aren't the base and threaten not to support Democrats if they don't get their way? Instead, other voters are catered to and coddled while black voters are expected to vote no matter what - and when we do demand attention, we're accused of "playing identity politics."

[Tom Rinaldo]

172. "Deferece" is a civil term, "winning" is a political term.

How often have we all been reminded that African American voters did not widely get behind Barack Obama in 2008 until AFTER he showed that he could win white votes in Iowa. I am not suggesting that is or is not the best way for black voters to choose a preference, just acknowledging that it is commonly stated that Black voters are pretty damn sophisticated and that they by and large would rather win with their second choice than risk losing with their first choice, if that is how it seems it would play out. It has been called being "pragmatic" and praised as such. Ultimately it comes down to a game of numbers, who can win the most votes, and the stakes can not be higher and Black voters more than most know that.

Black turnout in 2016 was down from 2012 levels even though Democrats nominated the candidate who Black primary voters overwhelmingly supported in 2016. Should one argue then that Democratic Party "deference" shown to black primary voters preferences in 2016 was a "mistake" because overall Black voter participation levels in 2016 then dropped? Of course not. Like every voter in America; black, white, yellow, red, people cast their votes as they choose. Black 2016 primary voters who wanted Hillary Clinton as President were clearly right to vote for her. Anyone, of any race, who chose to stay home on election day in November bears their share of the responsibility for the final results.

I agree with Nurse Jackie above. I can not think of a voting block that I have more confidence in doing the right thing come November 2020 than Black voters, whoever may get the Democratic nomination;' Joe Elizabeth, Bernie, Pete or anyone else. Moderate voters by far are less of a sure thing. The question is would a Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren mobilize more young voters than they might alienate established moderate voters, and could they pull in more votes from people who are not intensely ideological but are instead just "fed up with the way things are going" than would a more established centrist leaning candidate?

[Garrett78]

164. Black folks, as a whole, have a much better understanding of what's at stake.

And Black folks can be more easily counted on to vote blue no matter who.

[Gothmog]

165. Dissecting the Black Vote

African American voters are mainly moderate and so this vote will stay home if the candidate is too liberal

Link to tweet

Myth No. 1: Black voters are liberal.

One of the defining phenomena of contemporary American electoral politics is the black electorate’s large and enduring support for the Democratic Party, which has concurrently moved leftward.

Its presidential candidates have received an average of nearly 90% of the black vote for the past six decades. Many conclude that black voters’ liberal preferences, carried over from economic and racially progressive policies of the civil rights movement and Jesse Jackson’s presidential campaigns of 1984 and 1988, led this shift.

But black voters’ support of Democratic candidates is a function of electoral pragmatism — voting in a risk-averse fashion to preserve gains, instead of ideologically in hopes of immediate transformative change — not devotion to left-wing ideology.

In surveys, more than half of black Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents prefer a public option for health care over Medicare-for-all, and two-thirds of black Americans favor charter schools and choice programs, which run counter to party orthodoxy.
Only 28% of black Democrats consider themselves liberal, according to the Pew Research Center, while 70% identify as moderate or conservative. And black liberal Democrats constitute just 17% of the left wing of the party, Gallup found.