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RandySF

(57,636 posts)
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 03:45 AM Nov 2019

Warren proposes a transition phase before Medicare-for-All

WASHINGTON - After months of criticism from Democratic leaders and voters, Sen. Elizabeth Warren offered a new approach to her Medicare-for-all proposal Friday, adding an intermediate step that would let Americans participate in an optional government-run health plan before she attempted to pass a mandatory program.

Under Warren’s new plan, which she calls a “Medicare for All option,” all Americans would be eligible to participate in Medicare, but no one would have to. She would push for this initiative in her first 100 days in the White House, then make a separate effort to pass Medicare-for-All later in her first term.

It’s a clear shift for the senator from Massachusetts as she attempts to ward off criticism that her single-payer health plan is unrealistic substantively and toxic politically. Warren for months had signaled a full-throated embrace of Medicare-for-All, and this new approach significantly tempers that urgency.

That may ultimately better position Warren for a contest with President Donald Trump if she is the Democratic nominee. But on Friday it prompted an immediate backlash from her centrist rivals as well as liberal activists.

Kate Bedingfield, deputy campaign manager for former vice president Joe Biden, called Warren’s maneuvering “a full program of flips and twists,” while Sen. Michael Bennet, D-Colo., said she was “backtracking,” and Lis Smith, spokeswoman for South Bend, Indiana, Mayor Pete Buttigieg, accused her of trying to “paper over a very serious policy problem.”


https://www.post-gazette.com/news/politics-nation/2019/11/17/Elizabeth-Warren-Medicare-for-All-plan-health-care-transition/stories/201911170230?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter_PittsburghPG

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
40 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Warren proposes a transition phase before Medicare-for-All (Original Post) RandySF Nov 2019 OP
As I've thought, it's foolish for candidates to propose 'specific' plans at this stage; elleng Nov 2019 #1
That's been my larger point through all of these grand plans... TreasonousBastard Nov 2019 #7
The Warren Plan ritapria Nov 2019 #2
No she hasn't dansolo Nov 2019 #8
i'd have done it a year at a time rampartc Nov 2019 #3
I see this new approach as a sign of her strength--she is will to work on different approaches and riversedge Nov 2019 #4
Exactly. BlueMTexpat Nov 2019 #6
It is too late...and what do you suppose the real life consequences will be during the Demsrule86 Nov 2019 #14
I totally agree. She is no longer in the pie-in-the-sky crowd that pays no... LAS14 Nov 2019 #19
It's a smart political move. I think she's decided to go for M4A in year 3 because the midterms... Tarheel_Dem Nov 2019 #5
I think it is politically foolish dansolo Nov 2019 #9
And what do you think 'vote for us or lose your health care' will do to Demsrule86 Nov 2019 #15
So no middle class tax increases was a lie dansolo Nov 2019 #10
Yes it does. Dr Hobbitstein Nov 2019 #11
They may be less for you madville Nov 2019 #12
They will be less for many more Americans. Dr Hobbitstein Nov 2019 #18
The taxes won't be less...Hubs and I looked into it...we are not at retirement age but it will cost Demsrule86 Nov 2019 #16
And how did you calculate this? Dr Hobbitstein Nov 2019 #17
Everything I have seen is a fairtytale...it will cost a fortune to put every person on Medicare for Demsrule86 Nov 2019 #20
So you didn't calculate it then? nt Dr Hobbitstein Nov 2019 #22
I just told you I looked at the numbers and I think the 'assumptions' of saving are a fairy tale. Demsrule86 Nov 2019 #23
You "looked at the numbers". Dr Hobbitstein Nov 2019 #24
I looked at Warren's own numbers and have linked a discussion of those number which I find to be Demsrule86 Nov 2019 #29
Her numbers look good. Dr Hobbitstein Nov 2019 #31
They don't look good to me and are based on assumptions that I don't believe are true...which I Demsrule86 Nov 2019 #34
Everything I have seen is a fairtytale...it will cost a fortune to put every person on Medicare for Demsrule86 Nov 2019 #21
My Medicare costs me $135 a month. The three of you would pay $405 a month under MFA. stopbush Nov 2019 #28
This message was self-deleted by its author Demsrule86 Nov 2019 #30
Her wealth tax would fund a good portion of it. Dr Hobbitstein Nov 2019 #32
How many expensive programs will be funded by that wealth tax? stopbush Nov 2019 #33
Well, seeing as billionaires shouldn't exist, Dr Hobbitstein Nov 2019 #35
Right. Empty platitudes that will never happen. Pipe dreams. stopbush Nov 2019 #36
Yeah, let's just be apathetic! nt Dr Hobbitstein Nov 2019 #39
Not apathetic. Realistic. I am on Medicare. I wish everyone could be on Medicare. stopbush Nov 2019 #40
Fewer than 1000 billionaires in the USA. stopbush Nov 2019 #37
That's a lot of fucking billionaires... Especially when there shouldn't be a single one. Dr Hobbitstein Nov 2019 #38
Do I detect a whiff of moderate incrementalism in her proposal? beastie boy Nov 2019 #13
Nobel Prize winner: Warren's stepping stone plan, "a very good idea: Chambi Nov 2019 #25
MFA, with a short transition period, is still MFA. People who don't want MFA will still be against Hoyt Nov 2019 #26
Much better ismnotwasm Nov 2019 #27
 

elleng

(130,145 posts)
1. As I've thought, it's foolish for candidates to propose 'specific' plans at this stage;
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 03:51 AM
Nov 2019

glad she's coming around to describing attributes of a 'plan' that may be widely accepted, instead of scaring many away with features many don't want.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

TreasonousBastard

(43,049 posts)
7. That's been my larger point through all of these grand plans...
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 06:55 AM
Nov 2019

"Health care for all" is likely a winning message in the general, but specific plans for just how we get there would leave too many voters cold. If M4A gets even 3/4 of Democrats on board, that's not enough to get us through the general.

Preaching to the converted doesn't get you more converts.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ritapria

(1,812 posts)
2. The Warren Plan
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 04:10 AM
Nov 2019

I think she has moved much closer to the Buttigieg plan ……..Harry Reid predicted this would happen

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

dansolo

(5,376 posts)
8. No she hasn't
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 07:51 AM
Nov 2019

Her plan hasn't changed. She still intends to force M4A on everyone, seemingly even faster than before. First it was four years, now she intends to implement M4A in three years, because of course everybody will have moved over to her glorious public option immediately that it will be no problem to eliminate private insurance after that.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

rampartc

(5,263 posts)
3. i'd have done it a year at a time
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 05:07 AM
Nov 2019

first year lower the age to 64 etc.

that assures a smooth transition while insuring the oldest(and most needy) first

that may have been the plan back in the great society days, derailed by the vietnam war and nixpn.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

riversedge

(69,721 posts)
4. I see this new approach as a sign of her strength--she is will to work on different approaches and
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 05:20 AM
Nov 2019

is open to critique.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BlueMTexpat

(15,349 posts)
6. Exactly.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 06:15 AM
Nov 2019

She is NOT a die-hard ideologue in any sense!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Demsrule86

(68,348 posts)
14. It is too late...and what do you suppose the real life consequences will be during the
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 10:25 AM
Nov 2019

'transition' period? M4A is a bad, idea and she should never have run on it...I believe this will potentially cost her the nomination...now I would have voted for her in the general of course. But I see real signs of slippage and if Buttigeig wins Iowa and Anyone but her wins New Hampshire or even if the the top three tie,her campaign is over. She is the one candidate where Iowa and New Hampshire are important.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LAS14

(13,749 posts)
19. I totally agree. She is no longer in the pie-in-the-sky crowd that pays no...
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 10:48 AM
Nov 2019

... attention to whether or not congress will be with her.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Tarheel_Dem

(31,207 posts)
5. It's a smart political move. I think she's decided to go for M4A in year 3 because the midterms...
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 05:21 AM
Nov 2019

would be disastrous for Congress persons having to defend a program they may or may not believe in. I'm a Biden supporter, but I think this "backtracking" (as characterized by Michael Bennett) shows she actually listens, and is politically astute.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

dansolo

(5,376 posts)
9. I think it is politically foolish
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 07:57 AM
Nov 2019

She still is pushing for M4A as her ultimate plan, with the expectation that the 2022 elections will be a referendum on that. That is the most politically tone deaf thing I have ever heard. If you think 2010 was bad, we will be facing a political bloodbath.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Demsrule86

(68,348 posts)
15. And what do you think 'vote for us or lose your health care' will do to
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 10:28 AM
Nov 2019

us in the midterms? It won't work. She should never have run on M4A and when she realized it wasn't as popular as she thought, she should have walked it back then not now...too late and too late.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

dansolo

(5,376 posts)
10. So no middle class tax increases was a lie
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 08:58 AM
Nov 2019

Medicare has very specific funding mechanism, largely through payroll taxes, which everyone pays. If she is going to open Medicare enrollment to everyone, then those payroll taxes will have to go up. That sure sounds like a winner.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Dr Hobbitstein

(6,568 posts)
11. Yes it does.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 09:46 AM
Nov 2019

Because now we won't be paying $400/mo for my wife's employer to insure my wife, child, and myself. The taxes would be far far less.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

madville

(7,397 posts)
12. They may be less for you
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 09:57 AM
Nov 2019

My current employer-provided health plan costs me $100 a month and my employer covers the rest. Raising my Medicare deduction or increasing my taxes will reduce my net income and there are millions of other people in similar situations.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Dr Hobbitstein

(6,568 posts)
18. They will be less for many more Americans.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 10:46 AM
Nov 2019

Taxes for the greater good have always been a good thing.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Demsrule86

(68,348 posts)
16. The taxes won't be less...Hubs and I looked into it...we are not at retirement age but it will cost
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 10:32 AM
Nov 2019

us over $600.00 a month for Medicare coverage...and I fear the coverage will be limited too and will eventually end up with the rich having great (private most likely) insurance and the rest of us basic coverage. I am against M4A with or without a transition period which would be chaotic in my opinion and we lose the midterm either way...of course it is unlikely we win in 20 if Warren is the nominee and this is the plan...we vote for her sure but she loses everyone else.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Dr Hobbitstein

(6,568 posts)
17. And how did you calculate this?
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 10:43 AM
Nov 2019

Everything I’ve seen and read points to lower costs.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Demsrule86

(68,348 posts)
20. Everything I have seen is a fairtytale...it will cost a fortune to put every person on Medicare for
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 11:22 AM
Nov 2019

all which I fear will limit the coverage, raise taxes and still requires deductibles...the current program which only insures those over 65 is running out of money so how will it be cheaper if everyone is on it? And since we pay individual premiums those with kids will go broke...I don't like the plan. I looked at projected costs and there is no way we can do this without raising taxes substantially and having deductibles. Even then, I imagine medical care will be impacted as well.

My employer subsidizes my costs now...I pay $300 a month for a family plan. I promise you, I won't get a raise and if my employer pays more which could happen I will probably get less...not a fan of M4A. And I can only imagine the chaos of any transition and the blood bath for us that the 2022 midterms would be assuming we win in 20 which is questionable if we run on M4A. The numbers do not add up. And then there are the job loses associated with this...millions of jobs. It is a bad idea and I believe Warren made a big mistake in supporting it at all.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Dr Hobbitstein

(6,568 posts)
22. So you didn't calculate it then? nt
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 12:00 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Demsrule86

(68,348 posts)
23. I just told you I looked at the numbers and I think the 'assumptions' of saving are a fairy tale.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 12:07 PM
Nov 2019

I think the number also include overly optimistic growth...so I looked at the numbers. Now I will ask you why would it be a good idea to run on this? I see it having little chance to pass even if we win which is doubtful IMHO. Why not work with the ACA where millions will get coverage right away and will help us in the midterms instead of destrying our chances? I don't like Medicare...not on it but have worked with it with my older sis in law who will likely spend the rest of her life in a nursing home due to restrictions on days in rehab and the limited options available...trying to get her on Medicaid but the rehab isn't great. She is 66 years old. So please, I have looked at the dark side of Medicare for weeks,months now.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Dr Hobbitstein

(6,568 posts)
24. You "looked at the numbers".
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 12:08 PM
Nov 2019

What numbers? First you said you calculated it, now you looked at the numbers. I just want some specifics here.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Demsrule86

(68,348 posts)
29. I looked at Warren's own numbers and have linked a discussion of those number which I find to be
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 01:02 PM
Nov 2019

rather optimistic myself.

"...Her plan is built on transferring to the government 98% of the $8.8 trillion she estimates that employers will spend on private insurance for their employees.

“We can generate almost half of what we need to cover Medicare for All just by asking employers to pay slightly less than what they are projected to pay today, and through existing taxes,” Warren wrote in a 20-page online post detailing her program.

Companies with fewer than 50 employees would be exempted and — in a nod to unions whose support will be key in the Democratic primary — Warren said that employers already offering health benefits reached under collective bargaining agreements will be allowed to reduce how much they send to federal coffers — provided that they pass those savings on to employees.

If the program fails to raise $8.8 trillion, Warren says she’d make up the difference by imposing a supplemental contribution requirement for big companies “with extremely high executive compensation and stock buyback rates..." [probably won't pass court muster]


"Warren instead insisted that overall health care costs would increase for big corporations and the wealthy while falling for most everyone else. Friday’s proposal attempts to explain why middle class taxes don’t have to increase — even if the figures involved are staggering.

She says that Medicare for All’s wiping out of private health insurance’s premiums, deductibles and co-pays will effectively result in an $11 trillion pay raise for Americans, which will generate $1.4 trillion in new taxes..."[fairy tale IMHO].

"...Other estimates have put the decade-long price tag for universal health care at $34 trillion, but Warren promised to slash $13.5 billion from that over 10 years through sweeping cost-saving efforts, including imposing new pricing and payment rules and reducing administrative and prescription drug costs." [Either payroll taxes or benefit cuts would be needed in IMHO]

I looked at her 20 page plan and above are some excerpts in a discussion I have linked.. Warren's cost of MFA assumptions are too low IMHO and other experts agree...google it. I also question some of the means she uses to obtain the money like a savings from those forced to abandon private coverage, increased capital gains taxes and of course the wealth tax which is likely unconstitutional-google it if you missed the multiple discussion. And if all else fails, there will be additional costs for corporations...sure just what we need to burden our companies with additional costs while forcing them to compete globally. Most of these means to pay for MF4 could easily damage our economy...an of course Warren admits what two million job losses in the insurance industry. I think that is a low number and also, there would be other jobs losses that depend on these insurance jobs as we seen in Autos. I suppose next you will ask me to 'prove it' ...I say to you, let Warren 'prove it', only IMHO she can't because the numbers do not add up...her own numbers.

https://www.boston.com/news/politics/2019/11/01/elizabeth-warren-medicare-for-all-plan

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Dr Hobbitstein

(6,568 posts)
31. Her numbers look good.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 01:30 PM
Nov 2019

Just because you don’t want it doesn’t make it a fairytale.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Demsrule86

(68,348 posts)
34. They don't look good to me and are based on assumptions that I don't believe are true...which I
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 01:55 PM
Nov 2019

wrote about before. I am for universal coverage for all. I am not for running on MFA and losing the next election and maybe the mid term in 22 also for something I think will never pass Congress. That being said, we can agree to disagree. I have to say, I was disappointed in what I found in Medicare in regards to my sis-in-law and existing coverage and am convinced we can do better with less disruption by building on and improving the ACA. In the end, we can have a 21st century plan that guarantees coverage from conception to death. I would also add that everyone should be covered in the final plan regardless of age...having two plans makes no sense.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Demsrule86

(68,348 posts)
21. Everything I have seen is a fairtytale...it will cost a fortune to put every person on Medicare for
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 11:22 AM
Nov 2019

all which I fear will limit the coverage, raise taxes and still requires deductibles...the current program which only insures those over 65 is running out of money so how will it be cheaper if everyone is on it? And since we pay individual premiums those with kids will go broke...I don't like the plan. I looked at projected costs and there is no way we can do this without raising taxes substantially and having deductibles. Even then, I imagine medical care will be impacted as well.

My employer subsidizes my costs now...I pay $300 a month for a family plan. I promise you, I won't get a raise and if my employer pays more which could happen I will probably get less...not a fan of M4A. And I can only imagine the chaos of any transition and the blood bath for us that the 2022 midterms would be assuming we win in 20 which is questionable if we run on M4A. The numbers do not add up. And then there are the job loses associated with this...millions of jobs. It is a bad idea and I believe Warren made a big mistake in supporting it at all.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

stopbush

(24,378 posts)
28. My Medicare costs me $135 a month. The three of you would pay $405 a month under MFA.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 12:44 PM
Nov 2019

And taxes would definitely go up significantly. Current Medicare taxes collected on 100% of workers funds Medicare for 19% of the population. Do the math: those taxes would need to rise FIVE FOLD to cover 100% of Americans under MFA.

Where are the savings?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

Response to stopbush (Reply #28)

 

Dr Hobbitstein

(6,568 posts)
32. Her wealth tax would fund a good portion of it.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 01:33 PM
Nov 2019

It’s time for private for profit insurance to die a miserable death.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

stopbush

(24,378 posts)
33. How many expensive programs will be funded by that wealth tax?
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 01:50 PM
Nov 2019

It seems every program Warren proposes is funded by “a wealth tax.”

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Dr Hobbitstein

(6,568 posts)
35. Well, seeing as billionaires shouldn't exist,
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 02:47 PM
Nov 2019

and we’ve got quite a few of them. there’s lots of money to be had.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

stopbush

(24,378 posts)
36. Right. Empty platitudes that will never happen. Pipe dreams.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 03:07 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Dr Hobbitstein

(6,568 posts)
39. Yeah, let's just be apathetic! nt
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 03:53 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

stopbush

(24,378 posts)
40. Not apathetic. Realistic. I am on Medicare. I wish everyone could be on Medicare.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 05:55 PM
Nov 2019

But most people arguing for M4A don’t even have a concept of what current Medicare patients pay for the program, or how much of their burden is born by taxpayers not currently on Medicare.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Dr Hobbitstein

(6,568 posts)
38. That's a lot of fucking billionaires... Especially when there shouldn't be a single one.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 03:52 PM
Nov 2019

I'm all for taxing their wealth.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

beastie boy

(9,060 posts)
13. Do I detect a whiff of moderate incrementalism in her proposal?
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 09:57 AM
Nov 2019

Doesn't she know that it is seriously bad and no good and terribly awful, because... revolution? When does Warren bashing begin?

On a serious note: yes, it does make her stronger. Because it makes her more mainstream.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Chambi

(37 posts)
25. Nobel Prize winner: Warren's stepping stone plan, "a very good idea:
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 12:09 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
26. MFA, with a short transition period, is still MFA. People who don't want MFA will still be against
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 12:24 PM
Nov 2019

this plan.

On other hand, a Public Option allows people to try it out after seeing the actual details. I bet within 5 years, 70 to 80% of people will be signed up under the PO. Then, moving to MFA is easy. Point is, we'll get there quicker with a Public Option, and not run the risk of losing presidency and Congress because 60% or so of voters just don't want MFA (rightly or wrongly).

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ismnotwasm

(41,921 posts)
27. Much better
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 12:30 PM
Nov 2019

Glad to hear it

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
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