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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
 

aikoaiko

(34,127 posts)
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 10:33 AM Nov 2019

Biden Says Marijuana Might Be A Gateway Drug

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tomangell/2019/11/17/biden-says-marijuana-might-be-a-gateway-drug/?fbclid=IwAR3Lgfos0NH-Ujt2van3iNpFU19l8CrBIstxCWve5bA9wx_qJv-7lrfkCSs#4a435632130d

Former Vice President Joe Biden (D) said on Saturday that he’s not sure if marijuana is a gateway drug that leads to the use of other, more dangerous substances.

“The truth of the matter is, there’s not nearly been enough evidence that has been acquired as to whether or not it is a gateway drug,” the 2020 presidential candidate claimed at a town hall meeting in Las Vegas. “It’s a debate, and I want a lot more before I legalize it nationally. I want to make sure we know a lot more about the science behind it.”

That said, Biden added that while he doesn’t personally support ending cannabis prohibition, “states should be able to make a judgement to legalize marijuana.” “I think that’s OK,” he said.

Biden, who in past years has clearly said he thinks cannabis is a gateway drug and has a long record of supporting legislation to ramp up the war on drugs, was answering a voter’s question about whether his position on marijuana has changed.


Time to evolve, Joe. Gateway drug talk is as relevant as "Just say no."


eta: Trauma or Adverse Childhood Experiences is the real gateway to substance abuse and harm.
https://www.cmhnetwork.org/news/trauma-is-the-gateway-drug-an-aces-informed-approach-to-substance-abuse-treatment/
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
560 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Biden Says Marijuana Might Be A Gateway Drug (Original Post) aikoaiko Nov 2019 OP
... dewsgirl Nov 2019 #1
One could say the same about beer and in fact water. I've had people tell me before how much RKP5637 Nov 2019 #2
This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Nov 2019 #57
Yeah! Good point!!! n/t RKP5637 Nov 2019 #58
This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Nov 2019 #264
Too late!! InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2019 #283
This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Nov 2019 #284
It always was a gateway drug, just not for the reason most people think LongtimeAZDem Nov 2019 #3
I've been acquainted with pot for 50 years. Eyeball_Kid Nov 2019 #13
Been smoking the bud Faux pas Nov 2019 #108
I second that thought. Mandeville Nov 2019 #116
... Faux pas Nov 2019 #368
I inhaled SonofDonald Nov 2019 #249
I feel your pain as far as pain goes. Faux pas Nov 2019 #367
I now use "Kratom" for pain SonofDonald Nov 2019 #441
I'm all about the natural Faux pas Nov 2019 #450
Funny thing is where you find it SonofDonald Nov 2019 #453
Right back Faux pas Nov 2019 #537
It's no longer for sale here in Ark - ADH bought into the nonsense about Kratom being a Hestia Nov 2019 #479
Yes, big pharma is behind trying to keep it from us SonofDonald Nov 2019 #484
Spam deleted by MIR Team rayshow Feb 2020 #560
Is alcohol a gateway drug towards alcoholism? at140 Nov 2019 #511
Actually it's alcohol Andy823 Nov 2019 #366
Yup, if alcohol was presented to the FDA now, it wouldn't be legalized obamanut2012 Nov 2019 #401
Oh please. NT enough Nov 2019 #4
Well, Biden's off my list of primary favorites. His comment is nonsensical and ignorant. Eyeball_Kid Nov 2019 #5
It will also turn off the younger voter that WE need so badly to actually Ferrets are Cool Nov 2019 #7
Any younger Democratic or Dem-leaning voters who stay home if Biden's the nominee deserve Trump. highplainsdem Nov 2019 #19
They need little reason to stay home. They do not understand the way "we" do... Ferrets are Cool Nov 2019 #65
They need LITTLE reason? Eliot Rosewater Nov 2019 #79
We don't have to like it and we can try our best to change it, but Ferrets are Cool Nov 2019 #99
Even if you're right and they deserve Trump, WE don't deserve Trump... thesquanderer Nov 2019 #213
And of course this is such a big issue...right up there with destroying our standing in the world Thekaspervote Nov 2019 #23
Come to my state & try saying weed isn't a huge issue. EmInColorado Nov 2019 #215
Bravo! Congrats on kicking the opioids ChubbyStar Nov 2019 #229
Good for you, but drug deaths have been going up in Colorado since weed was legalized maximusveritas Nov 2019 #254
Due to over prescriptions. EmInColorado Nov 2019 #286
Joe is wrong stopdiggin Nov 2019 #308
Go look up what "anecdotal evidence" is and how it is not proof. maximusveritas Nov 2019 #312
Research says marijuana is not a gateway drug JonLP24 Nov 2019 #346
You need to do more than "an easy Google search" if you want actual answers maximusveritas Nov 2019 #449
No one is saying there are no possible side effects JonLP24 Nov 2019 #454
You are 100% wrong -- legal cannabis does not cause drug deaths obamanut2012 Nov 2019 #403
Good for you on kicking a nasty drug habit. Google voter issues. Don't think you'll find Thekaspervote Nov 2019 #339
Yes for legalization outperformed Hillary Clinton in Nevada & Arizona JonLP24 Nov 2019 #347
... betsuni Nov 2019 #349
This message was self-deleted by its author EmInColorado Nov 2019 #377
Weed is a very big issue EmInColorado Nov 2019 #380
Yup, it is both a medical issue and a justice system issue obamanut2012 Nov 2019 #404
Yes it's a much larger issue than what some are aware of EmInColorado Nov 2019 #534
Over 600,000 possession arrests last year. Voltaire2 Nov 2019 #218
It is a huge issue, and if you don't think it is, educate yourself obamanut2012 Nov 2019 #402
Biden's been off my list... things he says like this is why he will not get the nomination. InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2019 #158
Go Yell At A Cloud, Joe! nt smb Nov 2019 #211
So Biden is off your list based on this one issue? totodeinhere Nov 2019 #253
There's the weed thing... and the less-than-enlightened attitudes towards women... backscatter712 Nov 2019 #405
OK fine, that's more than one issue. n/t totodeinhere Nov 2019 #542
Ugh! I really wish Dems would stop with the Republican-Lite. backscatter712 Nov 2019 #374
Someone please tell me this is the Onion. Ferrets are Cool Nov 2019 #6
No, but maybe Joe was high when he said it?! InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2019 #169
Somebody needs to sit him in front of a bong and get him high. backscatter712 Nov 2019 #451
Not a bad idea... I'd be happy to break Joe in and educate him!! InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2019 #457
Might? If he doesn't know, he shouldn't comment. Auggie Nov 2019 #8
Meh Thekaspervote Nov 2019 #24
The gateway drug is beer. That's what many kids start out on. shraby Nov 2019 #9
Has anyone asked Biden if he's tried marijuana? YOHABLO Nov 2019 #10
Two different things: George II Nov 2019 #11
It doesn't sound like Joe remembered what he said earlier. aikoaiko Nov 2019 #14
The framing of the headline (not framed by you, though) is dishonest and misleading. George II Nov 2019 #17
Except that's not true. Dr Hobbitstein Nov 2019 #22
He's neither. Thanks for your courteous response and support of our leading candidate. George II Nov 2019 #30
Well, it's one or the other, George. Dr Hobbitstein Nov 2019 #34
Even beyond that, the very concept of a 'gateway drug' is made-up bullshit to start with mr_lebowski Nov 2019 #56
Excellent point! LuvNewcastle Nov 2019 #496
A gateway drug to an increased appetite ! left-of-center2012 Nov 2019 #12
Allowing individual states to legalize MJ will not give job protections, will not promote clinical in2herbs Nov 2019 #15
you're right. freeing the states to do their own thing stopdiggin Nov 2019 #309
Alcohol and nicotine are the gateway drugs loyalsister Nov 2019 #16
Joe- Beer, cough syrup, anesthesia and many other things are gate way drugs. LiberalArkie Nov 2019 #18
Outdated ideals. Dr Hobbitstein Nov 2019 #20
He's the front runner Thekaspervote Nov 2019 #26
A sad shame that is. Dr Hobbitstein Nov 2019 #29
That's your opinion..and that's all it is.. an opinion Thekaspervote Nov 2019 #38
Brilliant Bradshaw3 Nov 2019 #45
That Biden is right of center isn't opinion. Dr Hobbitstein Nov 2019 #70
1000% SterlingPound Nov 2019 #100
He gets thing done... like it or not. Bills that benefited everyone Thekaspervote Nov 2019 #321
Like the Iraq invasion? nt RandiFan1290 Nov 2019 #350
No they might mean corporate friendly anti-bankruptcy laws The Mouth Nov 2019 #458
Or the war on drugs Voltaire2 Nov 2019 #462
Joe? The Mouth Nov 2019 #474
Agreed Champion Jack Nov 2019 #137
Joe Biden isn't "right center", Hobbitstein.. & all your labeling doesn't make it so.. Cha Nov 2019 #488
yes, he deffo is, but things like this are not general-election helpful as it will depress Celerity Nov 2019 #365
If only I had a nickel for every made up outrage that "disqualifies" Biden! beastie boy Nov 2019 #53
Except that's not what he said. Dr Hobbitstein Nov 2019 #69
This is exactly what he said: beastie boy Nov 2019 #73
But it's not a gateway drug. Dr Hobbitstein Nov 2019 #75
Take a minute to read the quote. It is clear beastie boy Nov 2019 #82
Because he hasn't bothered to look into it. Dr Hobbitstein Nov 2019 #117
That may or may not be the case. You just don't know if he bothered to look into it. beastie boy Nov 2019 #144
No, they were being facetious. Dr Hobbitstein Nov 2019 #159
Does this look facetious to you? beastie boy Nov 2019 #179
Biden is on the wrong side of this. Dr Hobbitstein Nov 2019 #184
I am replying directly to the contents of your posts. beastie boy Nov 2019 #237
So nobody has ever gone from weed to harder drugs? Doodley Nov 2019 #230
People start with cigarettes. Perhaps we should make them illegal. redqueen Nov 2019 #233
Yes cigarettes should have been illegal decades ago. Doodley Nov 2019 #472
Are you actually trying to sell "gateway drug"? Dr Hobbitstein Nov 2019 #258
Except that's not true, "Gateway Drugs" is a term that exists in medicine. Not a "bullshit term" ehrnst Nov 2019 #376
Yeah, Hobbitstein.. any comment on ehrnst's post? Cha Nov 2019 #490
breast milk is a gateway drug. Voltaire2 Nov 2019 #463
You're trying WAY too hard!! Read what he said Thekaspervote Nov 2019 #322
Except that's not true. "Gateway Drug" isn't a "bullshit term." ehrnst Nov 2019 #379
Did you know Elizabeth Warren is for legalization? melman Nov 2019 #384
This has nothing whatsoever to do with my post... ehrnst Nov 2019 #439
Snap! Cha Nov 2019 #491
Yes, the crickets are quite loud, aren't they? ehrnst Nov 2019 #492
Completely!! InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2019 #170
ain't that the truth. still_one Nov 2019 #386
NO, Biden iDoes NOT the "need to go away", Hobbitstein Cha Nov 2019 #480
Good lord. 1980 called. Hassin Bin Sober Nov 2019 #21
Seriously, what is Biden thinkin?! Oh well, another day, another gaffe!! InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2019 #161
Oh good grief LittleGirl Nov 2019 #25
He's talking about recreational marijuana, not medicinal marijuana which is legal in many states. George II Nov 2019 #32
It doesn't matter LittleGirl Nov 2019 #37
Marijuana, whether recreational or medical, is illegal Dr Hobbitstein Nov 2019 #172
It is literally the same thing, and people should be able to buy cannabis products obamanut2012 Nov 2019 #406
Christ. WhiskeyGrinder Nov 2019 #27
Joe Biden is campaigning against dotard, everyone else is campaigning against him!! Thekaspervote Nov 2019 #28
Dotard's not in the primary. Dr Hobbitstein Nov 2019 #31
Seems to working whereas pushing against the front runner isn't Thekaspervote Nov 2019 #39
it sure seemed to work against Hillary for the last 20 years SterlingPound Nov 2019 #102
Nice! So you're advocating pushing negatively against a dem front runner because you don't like him Thekaspervote Nov 2019 #526
I can say from 30 yrs pot smoking experience...... calguy Nov 2019 #33
This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Nov 2019 #304
He is wrong on that as are many in my generation. When you hear something over and over all of your walkingman Nov 2019 #35
Catchy headline. Has nothing to do with what Biden actually said. beastie boy Nov 2019 #36
Oh..but you're spoiling their Sunday morning bashing!! Thekaspervote Nov 2019 #40
Not if you support federal restrictions as if there were evidence of significant harm. aikoaiko Nov 2019 #41
Wanting to know more about it is hardly a statement of support. beastie boy Nov 2019 #48
Yes it is because he is maintaining the status quo... aikoaiko Nov 2019 #49
That's a pretty loaded statement! beastie boy Nov 2019 #64
Not all issues are equal. Criminalizing cannabis ruins lives everyday. aikoaiko Nov 2019 #74
Issues are different. Arguments are equal. beastie boy Nov 2019 #78
But you see this isn't really about marijuana legalization at all.. he's the front runner Thekaspervote Nov 2019 #323
This is crystal clear and beyond any doubt beastie boy Nov 2019 #369
And on record they are... Especially today with the official release of his stance Thekaspervote Nov 2019 #527
He's against changing the laws. Voltaire2 Nov 2019 #225
He is not against changing laws. He just came against legalizing pot and facing uncertain outcome. beastie boy Nov 2019 #231
His direct quote. Voltaire2 Nov 2019 #242
Do you realize you just quoted Biden saying he is not against changing the law? beastie boy Nov 2019 #244
Sure in some nebulous future pending this Voltaire2 Nov 2019 #248
So now wanting to have more information about an issue while allowing states to legalize is Thekaspervote Nov 2019 #324
He is using "we need more data" to hide his opposition to legalization. Voltaire2 Nov 2019 #464
See post 527... Joe's official stance and it is nothing you have said it is Thekaspervote Nov 2019 #529
Trump is more of a gateway drug than pot.... AJT Nov 2019 #42
He is evolving. From sure it's a gateway.. LakeArenal Nov 2019 #43
Keeping cannabis illegal ruins peoples lives. aikoaiko Nov 2019 #44
That is the exact problem. LakeArenal Nov 2019 #46
BINGOOOOOOO!! InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2019 #290
Not the weed issue with younger voters. InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2019 #459
I would like to see Pot decriminalized nationwide. Legalization should be a state by state issue. n Blue_true Nov 2019 #47
Decriminalization Yes.... LovingA2andMI Nov 2019 #54
So you think cops should be meting out punishments because people smoke a plant? backscatter712 Nov 2019 #455
Does he even have an adviser for younger voters? BeyondGeography Nov 2019 #50
Doubt it... maybe he will when he evolves a little more on the issue. InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2019 #168
Does your candidate have an advisor on the single most important voting block? Thekaspervote Nov 2019 #325
On This One.... LovingA2andMI Nov 2019 #51
Wow. nt redqueen Nov 2019 #85
Ahh, yes. Reefer madness. Dr Hobbitstein Nov 2019 #175
Marijuana craze Celerity Nov 2019 #364
It is most definitely a Craze.... LovingA2andMI Nov 2019 #371
Except it isn't a "fad" -- wtaf obamanut2012 Nov 2019 #409
Yes and that is our strong opinion... LovingA2andMI Nov 2019 #427
fad has been going on for decades (actually for millennia, but nevermind that.) Voltaire2 Nov 2019 #465
It isn't a fad, it's about justice Calculating Nov 2019 #477
Justice??? LovingA2andMI Nov 2019 #523
lolz you are soooo wrong obamanut2012 Nov 2019 #408
Well, my first drug was nitrous at the dentist ... then nicotine, alcohol, and inhalants like glue mr_lebowski Nov 2019 #52
chocolate milk jmbar2 Nov 2019 #111
The same dealer had strawberry flavoring... tonedevil Nov 2019 #112
Breast milk/formula is the problem... it's madness!! InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2019 #173
Hate to break it to you Joe melman Nov 2019 #55
LOL... Joe is more of touch than I thought with this latest gaffe. Unbelievable!! InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2019 #176
Hate to break it to you but he knows that and seems fine with it Thekaspervote Nov 2019 #326
Uh melman Nov 2019 #370
See post 527 Biden's official stance and it's nothing that you or the op claims Thekaspervote Nov 2019 #530
I've seen it melman Nov 2019 #541
He's stuck in a 1950's time warp. Basic LA Nov 2019 #59
It's reefer madness!! InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2019 #288
Is this part of returning to the good old days? jalan48 Nov 2019 #60
Don't be surprised if younger voters stay home again if Biden is the nominee. Ace Rothstein Nov 2019 #61
I am very afraid of this. Ferrets are Cool Nov 2019 #67
Your fears are justified Bradshaw3 Nov 2019 #106
F'ing YIKES redqueen Nov 2019 #107
He is at about 2 percent among younger voters in Iowa Bradshaw3 Nov 2019 #110
Gaining a few thousand drumph voters while losing millions MarcA Nov 2019 #140
over this alone? treestar Nov 2019 #243
Oh come on!! Young voters are historically bad at voting Thekaspervote Nov 2019 #327
Completely correct The Mouth Nov 2019 #475
This is definitely one area where Biden and I diverge Jake Stern Nov 2019 #62
No Way colsohlibgal Nov 2019 #63
Mother's milk is a gateway drug. LiberalBrooke Nov 2019 #66
Keeps me off drugs vercetti2021 Nov 2019 #68
It also helps diminish opioid use and dependency. JudyM Nov 2019 #71
I hope the DNC dumps Biden in the next couple of months. nilesobek Nov 2019 #72
Corn pop!! Got anything else?? Thekaspervote Nov 2019 #329
Post removed Post removed Nov 2019 #76
Surprise this post is still standing... LovingA2andMI Nov 2019 #89
why it is the most honest thing said in biden threads, lol SterlingPound Nov 2019 #93
Yeah MustLoveBeagles Nov 2019 #114
I cannot support that guy. James48 Nov 2019 #77
Biden is right. The Valley Below Nov 2019 #80
Who's saying it's risk free? redqueen Nov 2019 #86
The negative impacts of Marijuana are FAR FAR greater than its proponents argue. The Valley Below Nov 2019 #90
Source? What is the evidence of these effects in Colorado? nt redqueen Nov 2019 #91
I'm seeing it here in CA. I was recently at a parent/staff meeting at our local high school. The Valley Below Nov 2019 #94
Correlation is not causation redqueen Nov 2019 #98
Exactly. Even IF pot is that much of a problem, it's a symptom, not a cause. cwydro Nov 2019 #119
It isn't correlation, it's causation. Direct causation. The Valley Below Nov 2019 #207
no one is saying it should be legal for children questionseverything Nov 2019 #320
Link to where minors are allowed to buy cannabis? obamanut2012 Nov 2019 #412
I live in the real world. Minors are getting pot deliveries here. The Valley Below Nov 2019 #415
Glass half empty Thekaspervote Nov 2019 #330
Well, that is interesting since use is dropping with CA teens Quixote1818 Nov 2019 #391
That is some serious BS. The Valley Below Nov 2019 #393
LOL Please provide a link then with some actual stats. You are something else. Quixote1818 Nov 2019 #395
You do realize that the study you linked to was done BEFORE marijuana was legalized... The Valley Below Nov 2019 #397
We can go round and round but the bottom line is the pros of legalization outweigh the cons Quixote1818 Nov 2019 #436
We need a better path. CA is a disaster. Pot is not "regulated." The Valley Below Nov 2019 #438
So then you want to make alcohol illegal then to correct? because it's 1000 times worse. nt Quixote1818 Nov 2019 #442
Did I say I wanted to make pot illegal? I don't want to see alcohol consumed by students The Valley Below Nov 2019 #445
Funny. We are mostly in agreement then and I should have read the OP in more detail Quixote1818 Nov 2019 #448
LOLOLOLOLOLOL obamanut2012 Nov 2019 #411
Absolute BS. LOL What major problems? Compared to Alcohol Marijuana is extremely tame Quixote1818 Nov 2019 #390
"Adults who smoked marijuana regularly during adolescence have impaired neural connectivity... The Valley Below Nov 2019 #392
LOL. Lack of sleep has the same effects. Why do you keep posting stuff about kids? Quixote1818 Nov 2019 #394
"The negative effect of marijuana use on the functional connectivity of the brain The Valley Below Nov 2019 #396
Even your article suggests it still up for debate Quixote1818 Nov 2019 #398
And how long did we have to deal with questions over whether tobacco was addictive or caused cancer? The Valley Below Nov 2019 #399
Anything to defend Biden... ol'Joe clearly missed the boat in this one!! InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2019 #435
Say wah? Totally! InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2019 #461
lolz -- zero, actual evidence obamanut2012 Nov 2019 #410
"Marijuana use by adolescents is particularly troublesome. The Valley Below Nov 2019 #413
Nobody is proposing legalization for minors. Voltaire2 Nov 2019 #468
The NIH is a "scare article?" LOL. The Valley Below Nov 2019 #470
Yes unfortunately it is. Voltaire2 Nov 2019 #471
Rightwing source vs the National Institute of Health The Valley Below Nov 2019 #473
Scientific American Voltaire2 Nov 2019 #481
Exactly!! LovingA2andMI Nov 2019 #88
I think he's right to slow down on federal legalization. Aaron Pereira Nov 2019 #201
Are we going to do something about alcohol? JonLP24 Nov 2019 #282
Except this is literally not true, and there is zero proof of this obamanut2012 Nov 2019 #414
Can you point to where I invented facts? Aaron Pereira Nov 2019 #456
It is not a gateway drug that is a myth JonLP24 Nov 2019 #252
What state are you in? Is pot legal there? Are there statistics about increases in these pnwmom Nov 2019 #494
It's true that marijuana is not risk free loyalsister Nov 2019 #545
Not true about Biden. The Valley Below Nov 2019 #546
Anyone who is willing to compromise on legality loyalsister Nov 2019 #547
I don't think either of these things describes Joe Biden. The Valley Below Nov 2019 #549
If he wants to leave it to states loyalsister Nov 2019 #550
And if he were to follow the lead of my home state, California, he'd be... The Valley Below Nov 2019 #553
And in my state, I have seen people drink themselves to death loyalsister Nov 2019 #557
No Biden doesn't take "pride" in criminalizing marijuana. The Valley Below Nov 2019 #558
Oh the outrage! Maybe I won't vote now. redstateblues Nov 2019 #81
The question isn't whether anyone on DU will vote for Joe if he's the noninee redqueen Nov 2019 #87
That viewpoint is about 20 years behind the times. redqueen Nov 2019 #83
Nah. Biden is way ahead of the curve. Those claiming legal pot is all "groovey" are wrong. The Valley Below Nov 2019 #92
"Groovey"? redqueen Nov 2019 #95
I've got news for you melman Nov 2019 #96
Not like now. And not in vape form. The Valley Below Nov 2019 #104
I'm not wrong melman Nov 2019 #138
One could not take a hit off a joint during passing periods and think it wasn't a bust. The Valley Below Nov 2019 #139
Except plenty of us on this thread was doing exactly that. As you tell us we could not do it Jewls2 Nov 2019 #142
If you think kids never got high at school before melman Nov 2019 #143
Not at the rate that's going on today. The Valley Below Nov 2019 #147
If you are of an age to have kids in high school melman Nov 2019 #155
Asked and answered. The rate of the problem is different. The Valley Below Nov 2019 #200
A few fuck ups? JonLP24 Nov 2019 #255
How did the students you knew who smoked pot during school hours end up? The Valley Below Nov 2019 #256
I'm one of them JonLP24 Nov 2019 #259
Sorry to hear of your war injury. And I'm glad if cannabis helps give you relief. The Valley Below Nov 2019 #262
Was in high school same time as you JonAndKatePlusABird Nov 2019 #280
Alcohol always is a bigger problem JonLP24 Nov 2019 #281
I'm in 100% agreement JonAndKatePlusABird Nov 2019 #291
According to the article Biden supports rescheduling sweetloukillbot Nov 2019 #444
Actually, it is called dope for a reason. The Valley Below Nov 2019 #298
I'm late to the party as usual... mike_c Nov 2019 #305
Vaping may have increased, overall it hasn't changed much. progressoid Nov 2019 #265
Your own graph shows about a 50% increase in one year (between 2017 and 2018). The Valley Below Nov 2019 #267
VAPING has increased. progressoid Nov 2019 #268
Correct. It is nearly all vaping. The Valley Below Nov 2019 #269
So the problem is discretion? progressoid Nov 2019 #276
The easily concealable act of vaping is certainly part of the problem... The Valley Below Nov 2019 #279
No, we're making light of Biden's antiquated views. progressoid Nov 2019 #285
His ideas are not antiquated in the least. The Valley Below Nov 2019 #287
" Biden Says Marijuana Might Be A Gateway Drug" progressoid Nov 2019 #295
The beginning, as he will be our next president and a person of reason on this issue. The Valley Below Nov 2019 #297
He's a sensible woodchuck. progressoid Nov 2019 #306
lololololol obamanut2012 Nov 2019 #417
If you had anything beyond FUD... tonedevil Nov 2019 #97
+1 obamanut2012 Nov 2019 #418
"Groovey?" cwydro Nov 2019 #101
Laugh all you want, we have a generation in crisis. The Valley Below Nov 2019 #103
I do not know that I buy that, being immersed in the younger generation. Jewls2 Nov 2019 #121
I'm a high school parent in CA. The Valley Below Nov 2019 #123
Ok. And I think there are more factors and some have an agenda with their argument. Jewls2 Nov 2019 #125
The schools are saying it is THE FACTOR. The Valley Below Nov 2019 #128
You pretty much lost me with your argument. Jewls2 Nov 2019 #131
Link? Or else it's just Reefer Madness FUD obamanut2012 Nov 2019 #419
Marijuana isn't cheap tenderfoot Nov 2019 #149
I dunno. And many of the sales here in CA are blackmarket. The Valley Below Nov 2019 #150
Have there been any published articles concerning this? tenderfoot Nov 2019 #151
Not a good idea to ignore the teachers, councilors, and administrators who are sending up red flags The Valley Below Nov 2019 #153
You offer no proof of anything you're going about. tenderfoot Nov 2019 #160
This message was self-deleted by its author The Valley Below Nov 2019 #162
They're not using pot because it's legal. It is NOT legal for those underage. cwydro Nov 2019 #177
Most of the dispensaries here are not legal either. The Valley Below Nov 2019 #180
How are the dispensaries "not legal?" cwydro Nov 2019 #183
Shops open without permits. Some get shut down. Only to open again. The Valley Below Nov 2019 #186
This has nothing to do with the argument you're trying to make. cwydro Nov 2019 #188
Right, I addressed this below. All the things our younger generation is experiencing and seeing for Jewls2 Nov 2019 #199
ALL of the dispensaries are legal obamanut2012 Nov 2019 #420
You are deeply misinformed. The Valley Below Nov 2019 #425
Five finger bags. Bong shops. It may have been illegal but it was a $60 ticket if caught, Jewls2 Nov 2019 #120
Kids could not take bong hits between classes. Vape pens have changed everything. The Valley Below Nov 2019 #124
Like hell they couldn't, lol. A joint works just as well. Jewls2 Nov 2019 #127
Reeking of pot is a total bust. The Valley Below Nov 2019 #130
Omg, lol. You are funny. Jewls2 Nov 2019 #132
It is "funny" that I recognize smoking a doobie is a total bust vs hitting a vape pen? The Valley Below Nov 2019 #135
What's funny is melman Nov 2019 #145
Classic deflection from the usuals suspects. The Valley Below Nov 2019 #148
The usual suspects? melman Nov 2019 #157
Long enough to see where you are coming from. Believe me. The Valley Below Nov 2019 #164
Okay then let me ask you a question melman Nov 2019 #166
Long enough to show us... tonedevil Nov 2019 #226
I hope so! The Valley Below Nov 2019 #227
I think we might significantly differ... tonedevil Nov 2019 #437
LOL. No, good on you. Welcome to the Big Tent. We need everybody we can get. The Valley Below Nov 2019 #440
I've been a registered Democrat... tonedevil Nov 2019 #443
Pot, kettle, black. The Valley Below Nov 2019 #446
I'm sure you would. /nt tonedevil Nov 2019 #447
Damn! NurseJackie Nov 2019 #498
What is the key word there? n/t PhoenixDem Nov 2019 #311
And "bust" and "hitting the vape" obamanut2012 Nov 2019 #422
Wait, you have high school kids Dr Hobbitstein Nov 2019 #192
It isn't friendly to call others liars. The Valley Below Nov 2019 #228
Gee wow one child in the 10th grade ChubbyStar Nov 2019 #236
Nah. I'm listening to the teachers, counselors, and administers... The Valley Below Nov 2019 #238
Nah I pay attention ChubbyStar Nov 2019 #239
We sure are different. The Valley Below Nov 2019 #240
Just remember valley below..at the bottom of this pile is the need to bash Biden Thekaspervote Nov 2019 #332
Vape THC carts smell like weed obamanut2012 Nov 2019 #421
I used to take bong hits between classes. Dr Hobbitstein Nov 2019 #187
Yes, toilet paper roll. Coke can. Lol. Jewls2 Nov 2019 #190
and apples obamanut2012 Nov 2019 #423
I believe it. The Valley Below Nov 2019 #516
Yeah, it was very easy to find. cwydro Nov 2019 #174
Generation in crisis. Yeah, the boomers. Dr Hobbitstein Nov 2019 #181
You are dead wrong. The Valley Below Nov 2019 #182
No, I'm not. Dr Hobbitstein Nov 2019 #185
I "make up" that my kid's school just had a school-wide parent meeting to address the problem? LOL. The Valley Below Nov 2019 #191
Post removed Post removed Nov 2019 #193
Whatever you say. The Valley Below Nov 2019 #195
No, it isn't "made up" Thekaspervote Nov 2019 #334
OK Nancy Reagan. Nt Dr Hobbitstein Nov 2019 #361
And this is all ya got ... to call people names when scientific links are presented Thekaspervote Nov 2019 #528
Link to this meeting? obamanut2012 Nov 2019 #424
Links please Thekaspervote Nov 2019 #333
Here ya go. Dr Hobbitstein Nov 2019 #363
You are lying. backscatter712 Nov 2019 #485
Groovey? Hassin Bin Sober Nov 2019 #234
I thought it was funny too. Hence the quotes. The Valley Below Nov 2019 #235
Science doesn't support your opinion Lordquinton Nov 2019 #294
To the contrary. Marijuana consumption massively interrupts the ability for young people to learn. The Valley Below Nov 2019 #296
in any case your whole argument is irrelevant Lordquinton Nov 2019 #300
They "shouldn't" but they do. And legalization has made things much worse in that regard... The Valley Below Nov 2019 #303
Can you post an article or something? Lordquinton Nov 2019 #313
They told us here in CA that pot shops would be "controlled," but that's not the case. The Valley Below Nov 2019 #317
Hey, so do you have a source for all that? Lordquinton Nov 2019 #340
this is literally not true -- link to prove it is? obamanut2012 Nov 2019 #426
I just posted a link. I'll do it again. The Valley Below Nov 2019 #429
So people sell illegally Lordquinton Nov 2019 #493
this IS "Reefer Madness" stopdiggin Nov 2019 #314
You don't think there is big money being made from selling dope to high school kids? The Valley Below Nov 2019 #315
No, there isn't Lordquinton Nov 2019 #316
Nah. The black market has exploded under "legalization." The Valley Below Nov 2019 #318
Why has it exploded? Lordquinton Nov 2019 #319
It seems like illegal pot shops are hard to distinguish from licensed ones. Same with delivery. The Valley Below Nov 2019 #514
I smoked a ton of pot in high school, and I turned out fine. LuckyCharms Nov 2019 #354
Did you really write the lyrics?! obamanut2012 Nov 2019 #428
God, just stop with using your opinions and RW Reefer Madness tropes as "facts" obamanut2012 Nov 2019 #416
groovey??????? Celerity Nov 2019 #501
Another pro tip: When a phrase is in "quotes" it is usually for a reason. The Valley Below Nov 2019 #504
nice try nt Celerity Nov 2019 #505
"Try?" LOL. The Valley Below Nov 2019 #506
ok, nice attempt Celerity Nov 2019 #510
You laughed. Mission accomplished. The Valley Below Nov 2019 #512
fair enough Celerity Nov 2019 #513
LOL, you are living in the 70s! Nt USALiberal Nov 2019 #536
I'm not. The Valley Below Nov 2019 #539
Just Old Joe covering his ass Buzz cook Nov 2019 #84
He said he won't mess with the States Baked Potato Nov 2019 #105
good lord. crap on that comment. riversedge Nov 2019 #109
Pot is a gateway drug if you have to buy it illegally. Period. floppyboo Nov 2019 #113
Biden's point of view aligns with the CDC's. lapucelle Nov 2019 #115
If he followed his statement with, .."and we should decriminalize cannabis until we know", aikoaiko Nov 2019 #118
+1,000 n/t MarcA Nov 2019 #146
You should publish your research and forward the findings to the CDC and Biden campaign. N/T lapucelle Nov 2019 #196
There have been many studies proving Gateway Drug is a myth JonLP24 Nov 2019 #273
You should notifify the CDC of the many studies that "prove that Gateway Drug is a myth". N/T lapucelle Nov 2019 #343
CDC certainly doesn't say that it does JonLP24 Nov 2019 #345
The CDC says "more research is needed to understand if marijuana lapucelle Nov 2019 #467
Is anyone arguing against more actual research? Voltaire2 Nov 2019 #482
... lapucelle Nov 2019 #522
Legalized in so many states, it should not affect someones ability to get some minimum wage job. Jewls2 Nov 2019 #122
Maybe a minimum wage if the best life prospect a kid will ever have... The Valley Below Nov 2019 #126
When you make comments like this, I know you are not sitting from a position of facts. Jewls2 Nov 2019 #129
Not a bit. Students are failing out of school and/or doing badly in classes due to pot usage. The Valley Below Nov 2019 #133
Statewide... tonedevil Nov 2019 #141
We all see the world through our own experiences. The Valley Below Nov 2019 #152
You can't actually quantify the problem... tonedevil Nov 2019 #167
No. I have people in the schools who are saying they have never experienced problems on this scale.. The Valley Below Nov 2019 #171
So if marijuana use... tonedevil Nov 2019 #189
I don't have all the answers here. I guess the most important thing is to be real... The Valley Below Nov 2019 #194
Calling it a gateway drug is not being real JonLP24 Nov 2019 #257
Telling them that smoking marijuana is benign... The Valley Below Nov 2019 #260
Once and for All, Marijuana Is Not a Gateway Drug JonLP24 Nov 2019 #263
There is a hopelessness with our kids that has nothing to do with pot. I do not know one under 25 Jewls2 Nov 2019 #197
I'm sorry you are having problems believing progressives who are sending up red flags. The Valley Below Nov 2019 #203
Not addressing underling factors, many I laid out is beyond harmful and will not result in solutions Jewls2 Nov 2019 #205
I disagree and think you are making excuses. Sorry. The Valley Below Nov 2019 #206
Excuses? You are all up in arms for our youth and have boiled it down to the easy remedy of pot. Jewls2 Nov 2019 #210
LOL. False characterizations don't help your point. The Valley Below Nov 2019 #212
Very dismissive of youth experience. Jewls2 Nov 2019 #214
Not a bit. The Valley Below Nov 2019 #216
Well then surely you can document Voltaire2 Nov 2019 #351
Yeah let's help them out by giving them a criminal record. Voltaire2 Nov 2019 #219
False choices. Amazing how some people only think in extremes. The Valley Below Nov 2019 #220
Uh over 600,000 possession arrests Voltaire2 Nov 2019 #221
So? You think there are only two choices here? The Valley Below Nov 2019 #222
With respect to possession arrests yes. Voltaire2 Nov 2019 #224
Proof? Link? Facts? Yeah, there are none obamanut2012 Nov 2019 #430
"Despite some contentious discussions regarding the addictiveness of marijuana,... The Valley Below Nov 2019 #434
Oh, jeeze !!!!!!!! pangaia Nov 2019 #134
Another reason to lose. flying_wahini Nov 2019 #136
This is horse poop. mike_c Nov 2019 #154
+1,000 redqueen Nov 2019 #156
+2000. Uncle Joe Nov 2019 #163
This. nt Dr Hobbitstein Nov 2019 #198
It's not just ill-informed. It'll potentially limit important opportunities for treament. JudyM Nov 2019 #271
Wait! Mike C? Hassin Bin Sober Nov 2019 #292
Howdy. Good to see you too. mike_c Nov 2019 #301
The issue remains choice tirebiter Nov 2019 #165
It's not though. The fact that's still considered a schedule 1 drug makes this meaningless. redqueen Nov 2019 #247
From a 72 year old DUer randr Nov 2019 #178
I think it matters also. Look, we have Trump going into hospital probably because of heart. Jewls2 Nov 2019 #202
a younger person could have similar opinions treestar Nov 2019 #245
Legalization turns out non-voters JonLP24 Nov 2019 #274
How about the addictive opioid drugs? Doreen Nov 2019 #204
Opioids are their own gateway drug, cause addiction and death. Cannabis gets people off opioids. JudyM Nov 2019 #270
More proof of Biden being out of touch budkin Nov 2019 #208
Agree! duforsure Nov 2019 #356
Oh gosh... Newest Reality Nov 2019 #209
Mr. Biden, I remember when. saidsimplesimon Nov 2019 #217
More let's bash Biden... I don't need to stick to the subject... just get Biden Thekaspervote Nov 2019 #335
Let's talk about gateway drugs jmowreader Nov 2019 #223
I smoked pot before cigarettes. Dr Hobbitstein Nov 2019 #261
And with that jayschool2013 Nov 2019 #232
hahaha obamanut2012 Nov 2019 #431
lol... Well, we all have flaws. Sapient Donkey Nov 2019 #241
A sensible post. Thank you. MustLoveBeagles Nov 2019 #272
I like joe biden okieinpain Nov 2019 #246
A lot of us would warren to go home!! Thekaspervote Nov 2019 #336
Everyone look at the science JonLP24 Nov 2019 #250
Dated thinking. Maven Nov 2019 #251
I know someone who injected two marijuanas and now she's homeless and she lost a foot. progressoid Nov 2019 #266
Thanks, I needed that. SamKnause Nov 2019 #275
LOL! Maven Nov 2019 #293
Lol! Hassin Bin Sober Nov 2019 #299
This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Nov 2019 #302
Becky died from snorting marijuana... tonedevil Nov 2019 #337
RIP Becky. progressoid Nov 2019 #357
I found her foot. Where should I send it? Voltaire2 Nov 2019 #352
I think there's a depository for that. progressoid Nov 2019 #358
Even if it contaminated with tolio? Voltaire2 Nov 2019 #372
Ironically, you can get relief from tolio from the marijuanas. progressoid Nov 2019 #385
I tried to mainline it into my ear. Voltaire2 Nov 2019 #483
Ill invite him to our little ol ladies pot n cookies tea.... samnsara Nov 2019 #277
That is just embarrassing. dflprincess Nov 2019 #278
Where are Joe's advisors on this when he needs them?! InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2019 #289
Hopefully, he won't act on that. Laffy Kat Nov 2019 #307
Marijuana is really bad for some youths. It should be very hard for teens applegrove Nov 2019 #310
Thank you for your post ... coming from someone who has a better perspective on the issue Thekaspervote Nov 2019 #338
It was really easy for me to get as a youth -- easier than alcohol JonLP24 Nov 2019 #348
States with legalized cannabis show minors using cannabis has dropped obamanut2012 Nov 2019 #432
This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Nov 2019 #328
Havin' a bad day? Thekaspervote Nov 2019 #341
This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Nov 2019 #342
Out today Biden's official stance on weed...but, I suppose you'll find something wrong with that too Thekaspervote Nov 2019 #531
This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Nov 2019 #535
Well, THAT was a fun read! A HERETIC I AM Nov 2019 #331
I feel like I fell back in time. Autumn Nov 2019 #389
love the sample of this song on that jam Celerity Nov 2019 #548
Pot kept me sane when I got back from Vietnam. 4bucksagallon Nov 2019 #344
OK Boomer. Voltaire2 Nov 2019 #353
... progressoid Nov 2019 #359
Biden was born in 1942, pre-Boomer years DesertRat Nov 2019 #487
close enough, but you have a point. Voltaire2 Nov 2019 #489
Well he sure talks like the stereotypical Boomer redqueen Nov 2019 #497
I'm a Boomer and most of my peers use weed DesertRat Nov 2019 #507
Also laughing a lot redqueen Nov 2019 #509
Oh boy MFM008 Nov 2019 #355
He says he's not sure? duforsure Nov 2019 #360
Ugh RhodeIslandOne Nov 2019 #362
C'mon man! If you're an addict, even NyQuil is a gateway drug DesertRat Nov 2019 #373
"If Biden's appeal is supposed to be that he's a centrist, he should adopt centrist positions..." redqueen Nov 2019 #375
Why adopt new positions when you can double-down on shitty old positions? Act_of_Reparation Nov 2019 #378
Personally get the red out Nov 2019 #381
Pass it this way Joe to us Bernie supportes please! EmInColorado Nov 2019 #382
I don't give a f**k what people take, but the fact is cannabis can alter the metalbism of other still_one Nov 2019 #383
Which is a good reason to decriminalize it so that people talk to their doctors.. aikoaiko Nov 2019 #387
+1 obamanut2012 Nov 2019 #433
So out of touch with reality BlueJac Nov 2019 #388
Ok, Boomer obamanut2012 Nov 2019 #400
Took the words right out of my mouth! backscatter712 Nov 2019 #407
Biden was born in 1942, pre-Boomer years DesertRat Nov 2019 #486
THAT'S IT! HE'S OUT!! UNDER THE BUS JOE! Still In Wisconsin Nov 2019 #452
How is this different than a Dem candidate saying they are anti-choice? LonePirate Nov 2019 #460
Are you f-ing kidding me....??? revmclaren Nov 2019 #466
I'm saying it is unfathomable for Dems to nominate an anti-choice candidate. How is this different? LonePirate Nov 2019 #469
Agree with you The Mouth Nov 2019 #500
Heads up. Someone will likely alert that. You can't criticize him without suffering consequences. LonePirate Nov 2019 #502
Thanks, but I don't care The Mouth Nov 2019 #520
And you had the temerity to ask me if I'm on the right forum? The Valley Below Nov 2019 #543
I like Biden but this is a big, big vote loser. tman Nov 2019 #476
This message was self-deleted by its author tman Nov 2019 #478
I hope Biden takes a serious look at the financial benefits of this benign industry. peacebuzzard Nov 2019 #495
I will be surprised if this doesn't come up at the debate, and if/when it does, not much good for Celerity Nov 2019 #499
Sigh is right!! Give it a rest!! Thekaspervote Nov 2019 #533
it was not my OP and you misunderstood my sigh I do believe nt Celerity Nov 2019 #540
disgusting The Mouth Nov 2019 #544
..... tishaLA Nov 2019 #503
Yes! DesertRat Nov 2019 #508
Someone remind Joe that this isn't 1988, he isn't running against Dukakis and Gephardt Tarc Nov 2019 #515
This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Nov 2019 #517
Here is where Joe Biden stands on marijuana laws Gothmog Nov 2019 #518
Sorry, Joe. Not good enough. Say "legalize cannabis" aikoaiko Nov 2019 #521
This is good enough for me Gothmog Nov 2019 #524
What would you like him to say?? For heavens sake...enough is never gonna be enough Thekaspervote Nov 2019 #532
Nate Silver-Biden's position on marijuana is farther to left than headlines suggest Gothmog Nov 2019 #519
Well... he's not wrong in my family. Two went from weed to worse things as teens. NCLefty Nov 2019 #525
Biden is too out of touch LeftTurn3623 Nov 2019 #538
Joe is correct! Cartaphelius Nov 2019 #551
LOL... so true!! InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2019 #552
you made me lulz aikoaiko Nov 2019 #554
I would have hoped for Cartaphelius Nov 2019 #556
This thread needs a musical ending. betsuni Nov 2019 #555
Spam deleted by MIR Team rayshow Feb 2020 #559
 

RKP5637

(67,030 posts)
2. One could say the same about beer and in fact water. I've had people tell me before how much
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 10:36 AM
Nov 2019

pot is a gateway drug and drugs or bad while they are getting shit-faced on beer.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

Response to RKP5637 (Reply #2)

 

RKP5637

(67,030 posts)
58. Yeah! Good point!!! n/t
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 12:40 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

Response to RKP5637 (Reply #2)

 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,110 posts)
283. Too late!!
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 11:34 PM
Nov 2019

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #283)

 

LongtimeAZDem

(4,494 posts)
3. It always was a gateway drug, just not for the reason most people think
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 10:36 AM
Nov 2019

Anti-marijuana ads and presentations were always over-the-top and full of ridiculous claims.

So when a young person actually tried it, and discovered how relatively benign it is, they then wondered, "what else were they lying about?"

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Eyeball_Kid

(7,410 posts)
13. I've been acquainted with pot for 50 years.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 10:49 AM
Nov 2019

No, it's not a gateway to harder drugs. I frankly don't have time and never did have time to behave in a way that verifies the "gateway" theory. And beyond the normal experimentation with psychedelics many decades ago, I haven't come close to expanding my drug usage. In fact, my familiarity with pot has DECREASED my alcohol usage. Alcohol wreaks far more discomfort and physical problems than pot, and I'm just not interested in the aftereffects of drinking.

IMO, if there is ANY rationale for claiming that pot is a gateway drug, it's that others, that is, MILLIONS of others who use pot might refuse to buy cheap beer and booze for their weekend hijinks, which could decrease profits for the big breweries and distilleries. And THAT'S the rub.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Faux pas

(14,582 posts)
108. Been smoking the bud
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 02:49 PM
Nov 2019

for 47 years. The only other drug I ever used was alcohol. Thanks to pot, I also quit drinking. Life is GOOOOD.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Mandeville

(35 posts)
116. I second that thought.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 03:13 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

SonofDonald

(2,050 posts)
249. I inhaled
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 09:04 PM
Nov 2019

And it's been 43 years since that day

I don't get "Stoned" anymore as that's for teenagers and such, I have a couple puffs after dinner each night and it really does help me relax and sleep deeply

I use it to take away all the little aches and pains that my 60 yo beat to a crap body ends up with at the end of each day

I can go without and have before but I prefer not to

I quit drinking 22 years ago and never looked back, ciggs and alcohol are the real gateway drugs

My doctors had me on Percocet and Vicodin for three years then 180 mg of morphine sulfate per day for six years

Are doctors involved in drug trafficking?, I think we found the answer to that recently

I've been off the opiates for 1.5 years now, turns out I probably didn't need them for the last 2-3 years I was on them

Due to injuries, broken legs, arm, a bad back and a stabbing I've spent 12+ years on opiates so far in my life

I'll stick with pot and never look back

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Faux pas

(14,582 posts)
367. I feel your pain as far as pain goes.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 09:42 AM
Nov 2019

Glad for you that you could get off the opiates, from what I've observed over the years, it's not easy to do. I really liked vicodin the few times it was prescribed for me. It reminded me of pot, I was in pain but I didn't care lol. I spent most of my life seeing chiropractors for my aches and pains from 11 car accidents (I'm not a bad driver I'm a bad passenger) but they won't touch since I broke my neck. I've been using acupuncture for about 6 years and it works pretty damned good.

Western 'medicine' is a racket too intertwined with big pharma for my liking.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

SonofDonald

(2,050 posts)
441. I now use "Kratom" for pain
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 02:41 PM
Nov 2019

It's a plant grown in the Far East they've been using for centuries, it's ground into a fine powder and I mix three heaping teaspoons with grape sugarless drink mix and down the the hatch she goes

1/2 hour to take effect, lasts for at least four hours, no side effects, no mental fuzziness, nothing but pain relief

It's an alkaloid so they keep talking about making it a scheduled drug but haven't yet

I would say there are hundreds of thousands of people that use it now in the USA, it flat just works for me

There are strains that are dissacociative or can give you a buzz, I tried a white strain of "Maeng Da" that made me essentially drunk, I only took it once, I don't drink so it was a huge surprise to be drunk again

It's either that or go back to eating handfuls of Motrin every day

I use the premium Maeng Da by Bumblebee Co of Los Angeles California

It's the best for pain I've found

I have pain in my legs, hips and back, about five on the ten scale, Kratom just flat out works, as a bonus it's roughage too

Works for me

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Faux pas

(14,582 posts)
450. I'm all about the natural
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 03:16 PM
Nov 2019

and herbal stuff. Never heard of Kratom though, will check it out. Thanks.

I use Dit Dao Jow liniment that my acupuncturist makes. It's from Chinese medicine. It was used mostly for martial arts pain. I also do moxibustion. And of course my trusty old heating pad. Almost anything that some mad chemist hasn't whipped in some lab lol.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

SonofDonald

(2,050 posts)
453. Funny thing is where you find it
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 03:37 PM
Nov 2019

Those little smoke and beer shops and out of the way small stores

I researched it quite a bit before giving it a try, there are thousands of testimonials out there of how it helped people got off of opiates for good

As I mentioned there are strains that are said to have calming or sedative effect so it's best to choose wisely but the Maeng Da is for pain, like any drug Kratom can be abused but not for me, I found the strain for pain

I have read that some have had withdrawals from it but it's the strain you're using that dictates that, I personally have not experienced withdrawal even if I have run out for a bit, the pain comes back but that's it

The little store I get it from has a hard time keeping it in stock now and then but just the brand I use, they have others but the type and seller I mentioned is the gold standard for me

I wish you well and freedom from pain


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Faux pas

(14,582 posts)
537. Right back
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 10:43 AM
Nov 2019

at you!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Hestia

(3,818 posts)
479. It's no longer for sale here in Ark - ADH bought into the nonsense about Kratom being a
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 05:29 PM
Nov 2019

hallucinogen, or just like khat, which is mildly addicting and was given to child soldiers in Africa. Elders were practically on their knees begging not to pull Kratom from the legal market. They were off the pain killers. But you know those repuglican death panels...always seem to make sure that Big Pharma gets to sell their drugs.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

SonofDonald

(2,050 posts)
484. Yes, big pharma is behind trying to keep it from us
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 06:05 PM
Nov 2019

In all reality who else could it be?

They aren't making the money it brings so I can bet you they are behind any attempt to outlaw it's use

Get us all hooked on opiates then destroy our way off of them

Bastards all

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

Response to SonofDonald (Reply #441)

 

at140

(6,110 posts)
511. Is alcohol a gateway drug towards alcoholism?
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 08:20 PM
Nov 2019

Of course not. Only those who are pre-disposed to alcoholism become alcohol addicts.
I did fair amount of partying when under age 45. But never became alcoholic, and have not had more than one drink per YEAR since age 60 for the last 19 years (yes that makes me 79 years old).

Probably same with marijuana?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Andy823

(11,495 posts)
366. Actually it's alcohol
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 09:36 AM
Nov 2019

that is the gate way drug, and it's the most abused drug in history. Biden is still living in the past. Alcohol is far more dangerous than pot.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

obamanut2012

(25,906 posts)
401. Yup, if alcohol was presented to the FDA now, it wouldn't be legalized
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 01:39 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Eyeball_Kid

(7,410 posts)
5. Well, Biden's off my list of primary favorites. His comment is nonsensical and ignorant.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 10:39 AM
Nov 2019

Of course he's courting the southern conservative Limbaugh demographic, but it's the kind of red meat that he's tossing that pisses me off. The gateway drug meme is old and inoperative. He clearly knows better but will sacrifice truth for votes. It's a cynical ploy that is beneath his dignity. Too bad.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Ferrets are Cool

(21,059 posts)
7. It will also turn off the younger voter that WE need so badly to actually
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 10:42 AM
Nov 2019

go to the voting booth.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

highplainsdem

(48,722 posts)
19. Any younger Democratic or Dem-leaning voters who stay home if Biden's the nominee deserve Trump.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 11:20 AM
Nov 2019

Seriously.

And if they think Trump would ever legalize marijuana, they're idiots.

Biden's made it clear he isn't opposed to states legalizing marijuana.

And I don't see anything wrong with doing more studies.

FWIW, most of the people I've known who smoked pot also used other illegal drugs, at least occasionally, even if they smoked pot more than they used any other drug.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Ferrets are Cool

(21,059 posts)
65. They need little reason to stay home. They do not understand the way "we" do...
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 01:10 PM
Nov 2019

or at least the ones I have been acquainted with. There is NO reason to give them ANY reason to stay home. I know you are a Biden supporter and support anything that comes from his mouth, but he is "old establishment". I'm 63 and even I understand that fact. He is flat out wrong to give younger voters a reason to stay home. Feel free to disagree. It is our right.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Eliot Rosewater

(31,097 posts)
79. They need LITTLE reason?
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 01:40 PM
Nov 2019


Fuck it, I quit.

Go ahead and FUCK all of us over till the END OF TIME!

I tried...
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Ferrets are Cool

(21,059 posts)
99. We don't have to like it and we can try our best to change it, but
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 02:30 PM
Nov 2019

we have to give them reasons to go vote. You know as well as I that the majority of citizens are not as informed or interested in politics as we are here. Hell, most of the ones I am familiar with have just tuned out politics. It's up to us to help them understand.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

thesquanderer

(11,953 posts)
213. Even if you're right and they deserve Trump, WE don't deserve Trump...
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 05:39 PM
Nov 2019

...and we may need their votes so WE don't get Trump.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Thekaspervote

(32,606 posts)
23. And of course this is such a big issue...right up there with destroying our standing in the world
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 11:25 AM
Nov 2019

The economy, health care civil rights.

Get a grip!!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

EmInColorado

(31 posts)
215. Come to my state & try saying weed isn't a huge issue.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 05:42 PM
Nov 2019

It's a massive issue and has helped people like me kick opioid addiction. Please rethink your statement. Thank you.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

ChubbyStar

(3,191 posts)
229. Bravo! Congrats on kicking the opioids
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 07:21 PM
Nov 2019

Way to go!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

maximusveritas

(2,915 posts)
254. Good for you, but drug deaths have been going up in Colorado since weed was legalized
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 09:31 PM
Nov 2019

Opioid deaths were at a record high last year, so it is ridiculous to act like weed is some magic cure for any addiction when the numbers show the opposite if anything.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

EmInColorado

(31 posts)
286. Due to over prescriptions.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 11:36 PM
Nov 2019

Weed is the cure for getting off opioids & I'm living proof.

I became addicted to Hydrocodone while IN THE HOSPITAL recovering from surgery. Atavan did little which is the regular treatment to help with coming down from anxiety. Upon discharge, my surgeons spoke with me and told me I should hit up a dispensary for low powered edibles and THC infused CBD oil. Naturally they couldn't prescribe it (more reason to legalize) & I had to pay out of my own pocket.

It worked & got me off opioids. And I'm far from alone. Many are seeing the benefits.

You know what's ridiculous? Your comment towards me when you have never been in my shoes or the anybody else's who has had to go through this. And it's very offensive as it dismisses the plight many face.

Joe Biden is wrong on this. Period.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

stopdiggin

(11,090 posts)
308. Joe is wrong
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 12:39 AM
Nov 2019

and there was no personal attack in the post. Differences can be pointed sometimes (it's a place for discussion and opinion) .. but not liking, or agreeing with, your opinion is all par for he course. Don't take it personal.

(and welcome to DU)

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

maximusveritas

(2,915 posts)
312. Go look up what "anecdotal evidence" is and how it is not proof.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 01:18 AM
Nov 2019

I understand this is personal for you and it's great if it works for you, but to try and make broad generalizations about how it would work for others is simply wrong.
The statistics/research is what I rely on as I am someone who believes in science/reason over emotion.
That seems to be what Biden is saying too, that we need to do more research instead of just going with the popular sentiment based on no evidence. Maybe he is wrong, but that is yet to be proven.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
346. Research says marijuana is not a gateway drug
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 06:42 AM
Nov 2019

An easy Google search is all Biden or anyone has to do.

Can marijuana help end the opioids crisis?
In states where medical marijuana is legal, doctors write fewer opioid prescriptions and patients consume lower doses

Legalization opponents call marijuana a “gateway drug” that leads users to more dangerous substances. But could it also be an “exit drug” that helps ease the opioids crisis?

The data is scarce, but the anecdotes are plentiful.

After more than a decade in the US air force, Jennifer Baxter needed foot surgery. It wasn’t successful, and she had to have two more procedures to correct her “severely disfigured, painful and mechanically incorrect foot”.

Baxter had had surgeries before, and had taken opioids to recover. But, as she tells it, this time she connected with a civilian doctor known for his generosity with pain medication.

She heard medical marijuana might be helpful and began using it in spring 2016. Balancing it with the slow-release morphine to stave off the symptoms of opioid withdrawal, she quit pills entirely in several months.

Today Baxter, 40, has a new life. She is engaged to be married. She volunteers with rescue animals and is involved in her church. She has lost weight and lives in Arizona, where she can legally obtain medical marijuana for her pain, PTSD and insomnia. She takes it nightly and sometimes during the day.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/apr/01/marijuana-opioids-crisis-exit-drug

There is probably more evidence of it as an "exit drug" than a "gateway" drug. The vast majority of people who use cannabis do not go on to harder drugs. This is typically a talking point we hear from Republicans such as Chris Christie.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

maximusveritas

(2,915 posts)
449. You need to do more than "an easy Google search" if you want actual answers
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 03:11 PM
Nov 2019

Even your article says "The data is scarce, but the anecdotes are plentiful."
The only research it cites says that opioid prescribing went down, which makes sense, but that doesn't mean opioid use went down. As I pointed out in my comment, deaths from drug overdoses went up, so that suggests doctors may be prescribing less opioids but people are getting their fix off the street instead.

As far as being a gateway drug, I do agree that this is likely an antiquated notion based on the research that has been done, but its still a reasonable position to say we need more research to say for sure.
Overall, I don't have any problem with legalizing it, but I just get annoyed by Marijuana advocates using anecdotes and pseudoscience to pretend it is some kind of miracle cure with no possible side effects and that anyone urging caution/restraint is an old-fashioned Republican.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
454. No one is saying there are no possible side effects
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 03:38 PM
Nov 2019

Look at all the comments in this thread I see a lot more out of touch beliefs than the marijuana advocates. The biggest side effect are legal side effects which I'm trying to get rid of.

Here is complete info

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/9bgn7a/why-marijuana-is-not-a-gateway-drug-1013

The best study that links it also realizes alcohol & nicotine primes the brain to want to experiment with other drugs. You don't see anyone advocating the curtailing of alcohol consumption but as someone who hates alcohol & hates the side effects I have to deal with a lot of reefer madness just to get something treated the same way alcohol is (which is more dangerous not to mention a heavier style of drinking is associated with homicide offenders than the general population (could you imagine if cannabis had a stat like that?)

There are plenty of people that kick harder drugs including alcohol by using cannabis. It could also be used as a pain agent instead of opiods and could be used to kick an opiod habit.

---

Recent preliminary findings suggest that marijuana could be an effective therapy in the management of opioid addictions. Current studies indicate that medical cannabis significantly leads to a 33% reduction in the use of opioids and opioid-related fatalities. The findings are consistent with the report of the opioids addiction patients enrolled on the MCP [7]. Under this setting, the patients with the opioid use disorder were able to self-manage marijuana therapy and reduce the use of opioids for pain management. Nonetheless, meta-analysis shows that the safety and efficacy of the use of medical cannabis in the treatment of opioid addiction were statistically significant as the patients were able to engage in their own methods of harm reduction [3]. The latter included abstinence from the use of prescription opioids for pain relief.

Cannabis derivatives especially the CBD tends to be nonrewarding and can modulate the perception of anxiety common to patients addicted to opioids. Besides, CBD has no known side effects, and study reports indicate its low lethality [9]. Based on this aspect, medical cannabis can be considered a natural replacement for prescription opioids for pain management. Likewise, published reports in the Trends in Neurosciences reveal that clinical CBD restores the neurobiological damage caused by opioid addictions [6].

According to a study by Samoilov and Browne (2018), scientists have reported two major active chemicals found in the marijuana plant. These include the cannabidiol (CBD) and tetrahydrocannabinol (THC). According to the research studies, CBD impacts the brain without inducing addiction. However, the THC chemical has pain relieving properties but can significantly lead to addiction. Although limited scientific evidence has been conducted to ascertain the medical use of chemicals in cannabis, research indicates that there are more than 400 compounds in marijuana responsible for pain relief [10]. However, legitimate use of marijuana still limits it for management of opioids addiction due to its associated harm. Research studies by Esther & Choo indicate that chronic use of marijuana can lead to impaired memory, reduced ability to learn, and slow processing of information for children before attaining age 16. In adults diagnosed with or without other substancerelated disorders, short-term effects of marijuana have been reported. These include disorientation, drowsiness, dizziness, loss of balance, hallucinations, and confusion [9]. Apparently, most of these reported adverse effects of cannabis tend to be non-serious. Documented evidence has shown that smoked marijuana is relatively safer for adult patients diagnosed with opioid use disorder. The aspect is supported by the premise that smoked Cannabis sativa extracts are well-tolerated and are not associated with the risk of mortality for opioid addicts [6].

Several cannabis-based preparations in addition to smoked products include edible oil in vaporized or capsule form. It, however, remains uncertain on how each of the cannabis-based products influences the health of the patients diagnosed with opioid use disorder. Seemingly, consumption of the medical cannabis leads to euphoria and is associated with altered perception together with decreased anxiety [8]. Moreover, the CBD in marijuana modulates seizures, nausea, and possesses antipsychotic effects. Apparently, medical cannabis acts on the endocannabinoid system in which the endocannabinoid neurotransmitters initiate the signaling of the cannabinoid receptors indicated as 1 and 2 (CB1 and CB2) in the brain. CB1 is a

http://hospital-medical-management.imedpub.com/the-benefits-and-effects-of-usingmarijuana-as-a-pain-agent-to-treatopioid-addiction.php?aid=23610

It doesn't matter if these are anecdotes are not. There are real people out there kicking more severe addictions with cannabis. I certainly don't want to use alcohol and end up delusional tremors or worse.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

obamanut2012

(25,906 posts)
403. You are 100% wrong -- legal cannabis does not cause drug deaths
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 01:40 PM
Nov 2019

Cannabis is not a gateway drug. You are spouting literal RW Reefer Madness myths generated by Big Pharma. You are wrong.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Thekaspervote

(32,606 posts)
339. Good for you on kicking a nasty drug habit. Google voter issues. Don't think you'll find
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 04:56 AM
Nov 2019

Marijuana legalization very high on the list. Not to say it isn’t, it’s not anywhere near issues like health insurance, gun control, civil rights issues, women’s right to choose

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
347. Yes for legalization outperformed Hillary Clinton in Nevada & Arizona
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 06:47 AM
Nov 2019

So legalization was more popular than Hillary Clinton.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

Response to Thekaspervote (Reply #339)

 

EmInColorado

(31 posts)
380. Weed is a very big issue
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 11:52 AM
Nov 2019

Weed is the #1 reason why POC are incarcerated. It's all interwoven.
Not only is it a winner during the primaries but in the general election as well.

In the end, it's long past time it's legalized. It's not 1950 anymore.


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

obamanut2012

(25,906 posts)
404. Yup, it is both a medical issue and a justice system issue
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 01:42 PM
Nov 2019

Anti cannabis laws are literally rooted in racism.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

EmInColorado

(31 posts)
534. Yes it's a much larger issue than what some are aware of
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 07:52 AM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Voltaire2

(12,618 posts)
218. Over 600,000 possession arrests last year.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 06:07 PM
Nov 2019

And those arrested were disproportionately people of color.

But no big deal.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

obamanut2012

(25,906 posts)
402. It is a huge issue, and if you don't think it is, educate yourself
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 01:39 PM
Nov 2019

You are so wrong.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,110 posts)
158. Biden's been off my list... things he says like this is why he will not get the nomination.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 04:40 PM
Nov 2019

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

smb

(3,452 posts)
211. Go Yell At A Cloud, Joe! nt
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 05:35 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

totodeinhere

(13,034 posts)
253. So Biden is off your list based on this one issue?
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 09:30 PM
Nov 2019

Personally I have always had trouble with one issue voters. If you don't want to support him that's fine but basing it on such a narrow criterion is not helpful IMO.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

backscatter712

(26,355 posts)
405. There's the weed thing... and the less-than-enlightened attitudes towards women...
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 01:44 PM
Nov 2019

...and being soft on health care reform, and playing waaaaay too much footsie with Wall Street.

In general, Joe, more than just about everyone else in the Democratic Party, needs to be told "OK, Boomer."

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

totodeinhere

(13,034 posts)
542. OK fine, that's more than one issue. n/t
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 04:45 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

backscatter712

(26,355 posts)
374. Ugh! I really wish Dems would stop with the Republican-Lite.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 11:27 AM
Nov 2019

It doesn't work at all. The "moderate" Republicans almost always keep voting for Republicans.

We win when we energize the left, rather than pandering to the mythical reasonable Republican.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Ferrets are Cool

(21,059 posts)
6. Someone please tell me this is the Onion.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 10:41 AM
Nov 2019

sheesh

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,110 posts)
169. No, but maybe Joe was high when he said it?!
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 04:53 PM
Nov 2019

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

backscatter712

(26,355 posts)
451. Somebody needs to sit him in front of a bong and get him high.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 03:25 PM
Nov 2019

He might have an epiphany that makes him far more chill on issues like this.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,110 posts)
457. Not a bad idea... I'd be happy to break Joe in and educate him!!
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 03:52 PM
Nov 2019

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Auggie

(31,060 posts)
8. Might? If he doesn't know, he shouldn't comment.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 10:42 AM
Nov 2019

HUGE lapse in judgment.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

shraby

(21,946 posts)
9. The gateway drug is beer. That's what many kids start out on.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 10:43 AM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

YOHABLO

(7,358 posts)
10. Has anyone asked Biden if he's tried marijuana?
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 10:44 AM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

George II

(67,782 posts)
11. Two different things:
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 10:44 AM
Nov 2019

He said "there’s not nearly been enough evidence that has been acquired as to whether or not it is a gateway drug.."

Not even close to the Forbes headline "Marijuana Might Be A Gateway Drug"

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

aikoaiko

(34,127 posts)
14. It doesn't sound like Joe remembered what he said earlier.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 10:50 AM
Nov 2019

Biden, who in past years has clearly said he thinks cannabis is a gateway drug and has a long record of supporting legislation to ramp up the war on drugs, was answering a voter’s question about whether his position on marijuana has changed.

“No, it hasn’t changed,” he told the town hall participant.

In 2010, the then-vice president said, “I still believe it’s a gateway drug. I’ve spent a lot of my life as chairman of the Judiciary Committee dealing with this. I think it would be a mistake to legalize.”
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

George II

(67,782 posts)
17. The framing of the headline (not framed by you, though) is dishonest and misleading.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 10:54 AM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Dr Hobbitstein

(6,568 posts)
22. Except that's not true.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 11:24 AM
Nov 2019

Biden is either ignorant or lying. Plenty of research has been done. It’s not a gateway drug. Outdated ideals from a center-right candidate.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

George II

(67,782 posts)
30. He's neither. Thanks for your courteous response and support of our leading candidate.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 11:34 AM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Dr Hobbitstein

(6,568 posts)
34. Well, it's one or the other, George.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 11:37 AM
Nov 2019

He’s either ignorant of the research or he’s lying. Not really a third option there.

I’ll hold my nose and support him in the general, but Biden’s ideology is outdated and short-sighted.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

mr_lebowski

(33,643 posts)
56. Even beyond that, the very concept of a 'gateway drug' is made-up bullshit to start with
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 12:31 PM
Nov 2019

There's not even any real evidence that such a thing as 'gateway drugs' even exists!

Instead of trying to prove MJ IS a 'gateway drug', how about someone first proves there's even such a fucking 'thing' as one to begin with, Joe?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LuvNewcastle

(16,820 posts)
496. Excellent point!
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 07:37 PM
Nov 2019

Is there a gate? I've never seen one.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

left-of-center2012

(34,195 posts)
12. A gateway drug to an increased appetite !
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 10:48 AM
Nov 2019

Many years ago I knew a woman who got the 'munchies' and ate a full box of prunes.
She said they tasted wonderful !

Need I go on?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

in2herbs

(2,942 posts)
15. Allowing individual states to legalize MJ will not give job protections, will not promote clinical
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 10:51 AM
Nov 2019

trials, will not change the federal designation of MJ as a Level I drug, all things that need to be addressed and changed to make MJ as legal to use everywhere and for anything that pharmaceuticals are used for.

To do less than legalize MJ at the federal level is being centrist.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

stopdiggin

(11,090 posts)
309. you're right. freeing the states to do their own thing
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 12:49 AM
Nov 2019

is woefully inadequate in addressing the problems caused. (not to mention intellectually dishonest) Joe muffed this one. If this is his position -- he's just flat out wrong

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

loyalsister

(13,390 posts)
16. Alcohol and nicotine are the gateway drugs
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 10:52 AM
Nov 2019

I once talked with a cocaine addict who said his was coffee. He never liked marijuana but loved caffeine pills. We need to do something to make pain relief safer and more accessible. With these wars and an aging population, more people need it.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

LiberalArkie

(15,686 posts)
18. Joe- Beer, cough syrup, anesthesia and many other things are gate way drugs.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 11:16 AM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Dr Hobbitstein

(6,568 posts)
20. Outdated ideals.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 11:22 AM
Nov 2019

Biden needs to go away.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Dr Hobbitstein

(6,568 posts)
29. A sad shame that is.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 11:33 AM
Nov 2019

Name recognition goes a LONG way, though.

I’d rather a candidate who isn’t right of center. We’ve had enough of that. A constant rightward shift. Biden is not the answer.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Thekaspervote

(32,606 posts)
38. That's your opinion..and that's all it is.. an opinion
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 11:50 AM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Dr Hobbitstein

(6,568 posts)
70. That Biden is right of center isn't opinion.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 01:29 PM
Nov 2019

That’s fact. His Senate record proves that.

It’s just that the Republicans are so far right that Biden appears left.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Thekaspervote

(32,606 posts)
321. He gets thing done... like it or not. Bills that benefited everyone
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 04:09 AM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

RandiFan1290

(6,206 posts)
350. Like the Iraq invasion? nt
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 07:15 AM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Mouth

(3,123 posts)
458. No they might mean corporate friendly anti-bankruptcy laws
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 03:54 PM
Nov 2019

Biden, along with most Republicans, favored the Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act, a bill to reform bankruptcy laws — essentially to make it more difficult to file for bankruptcy.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Voltaire2

(12,618 posts)
462. Or the war on drugs
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 04:23 PM
Nov 2019

Biden has a vested interest in defending the status quo, he helped create it.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Mouth

(3,123 posts)
474. Joe?
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 05:01 PM
Nov 2019

Nah, never...
/sarc

It is hard to name an infamously unjust feature of America’s criminal-justice system that Joe Biden didn’t help to bring about. Mandatory minimum sentences for nonviolent drug offenders, the sentencing disparity between crack and powder cocaine, civil asset forfeiture, and extensive use of the death penalty — the Delaware senator was involved in establishing them all.

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/03/joe-biden-record-on-busing-incarceration-racial-justice-democratic-primary-2020-explained.html

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Cha

(295,899 posts)
488. Joe Biden isn't "right center", Hobbitstein.. & all your labeling doesn't make it so..
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 06:50 PM
Nov 2019

And, no it's not a "shame"that Biden is leading.. we want to beat trump.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Celerity

(42,645 posts)
365. yes, he deffo is, but things like this are not general-election helpful as it will depress
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 09:24 AM
Nov 2019

the turnout across the board (age-wise) in key demographics we need to turn out in large numbers. No large numbers are not going to vote for Biden if he had just used a neutral statement and said leave it up to the states for now.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

beastie boy

(9,059 posts)
53. If only I had a nickel for every made up outrage that "disqualifies" Biden!
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 12:18 PM
Nov 2019

Wanting more research done on marijuana and wanting to know more about its effects is disqualifying?

Sure! Off with is head!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Dr Hobbitstein

(6,568 posts)
69. Except that's not what he said.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 01:24 PM
Nov 2019

He’s taken a pretty firm stance against MJ legalization. He is out of touch.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

beastie boy

(9,059 posts)
73. This is exactly what he said:
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 01:33 PM
Nov 2019
The truth of the matter is, there’s not nearly been enough evidence that has been acquired as to whether or not it is a gateway drug,” the 2020 presidential candidate claimed at a town hall meeting in Las Vegas. “It’s a debate, and I want a lot more before I legalize it nationally. I want to make sure we know a lot more about the science behind it.”


No spinning it.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Dr Hobbitstein

(6,568 posts)
75. But it's not a gateway drug.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 01:35 PM
Nov 2019

That’s a bullshit term. And there is tons of MJ research. Biden is an anti MJ candidate, and always has been.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

beastie boy

(9,059 posts)
82. Take a minute to read the quote. It is clear
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 01:49 PM
Nov 2019

Biden says that IT IS NOT CLEAR to him whether or not marijuana is a gateway drug! This statement doesn't make him anti or pro anything.

And I myself have yet to see consensus on the part of the research community on the effects of marijuana or lack thereof. It would help your argument if you were able to provide evidence of such consensus.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Dr Hobbitstein

(6,568 posts)
117. Because he hasn't bothered to look into it.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 03:21 PM
Nov 2019

It’s clear to most of the civilized world that it is not.

Gateway drug is a made-up scare monger term. It has no basis in reality. Biden is using bullshit wording to make his hard stance on MJ look soft.
Using the term “gateway drug” is being anti MJ. Period.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

beastie boy

(9,059 posts)
144. That may or may not be the case. You just don't know if he bothered to look into it.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 04:13 PM
Nov 2019

You are making a judgement based on your views, and you refuse to give him the courtesy of having his own views.

But try to convince him instead of bashing him. Post a link to a reputable source that shows how much of the civilized world is convinced that marijuana is not a gateway drug. And how much of that same world has no opinion on the subject.

BTW, several posters here labeled beet as a gateway drug. Are they scare mongering and anti-beer, simply because they used the term?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Dr Hobbitstein

(6,568 posts)
159. No, they were being facetious.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 04:40 PM
Nov 2019

Just admit Biden’s views on MJ legalization suck. Because they do.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

beastie boy

(9,059 posts)
179. Does this look facetious to you?
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 05:05 PM
Nov 2019

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287348505#post9

How about this?

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287348505#post16

I don't think facetious means what you think it means. But I must bend to your will and admit Biden's views suck, right? (In case you are wondering, I am being facetious)
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Dr Hobbitstein

(6,568 posts)
184. Biden is on the wrong side of this.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 05:08 PM
Nov 2019

I know you want to keep an argument going about different things to distract from that, but Biden’s views on MJ outright suck. And using bullshit terminology is part of the problem.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

beastie boy

(9,059 posts)
237. I am replying directly to the contents of your posts.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 08:01 PM
Nov 2019

If you find it distracting, too bad.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Doodley

(8,976 posts)
230. So nobody has ever gone from weed to harder drugs?
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 07:24 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
233. People start with cigarettes. Perhaps we should make them illegal.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 07:42 PM
Nov 2019

The next step is usually booze.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Doodley

(8,976 posts)
472. Yes cigarettes should have been illegal decades ago.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 04:49 PM
Nov 2019

More people have died from smoking than have died from all the wars in history.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Dr Hobbitstein

(6,568 posts)
258. Are you actually trying to sell "gateway drug"?
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 09:38 PM
Nov 2019

Because it’s not a thing that exists in real life.

Shades of Henry Anslinger.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
376. Except that's not true, "Gateway Drugs" is a term that exists in medicine. Not a "bullshit term"
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 11:45 AM
Nov 2019
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22712674

https://www.drugrehab.com/guides/gateway-drugs/

http://www.drugpolicy.org/marijuana-gateway-drug

As you told someone else on the board, there are two options: "either lying or ignorant of the facts."

You've been shown the facts.

Care to retract or say thank you?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Cha

(295,899 posts)
490. Yeah, Hobbitstein.. any comment on ehrnst's post?
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 07:00 PM
Nov 2019

As you can see.. it does exist and you're wrong.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Voltaire2

(12,618 posts)
463. breast milk is a gateway drug.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 04:24 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Thekaspervote

(32,606 posts)
322. You're trying WAY too hard!! Read what he said
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 04:11 AM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
379. Except that's not true. "Gateway Drug" isn't a "bullshit term."
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 11:50 AM
Nov 2019

Perhaps you'd like to take that up with the medical community.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22712674

Plenty of research has been done.... those that say that it's a "Bullshit term" are, as you say, either lying or ignorant of the facts.

You're welcome.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

melman

(7,681 posts)
384. Did you know Elizabeth Warren is for legalization?
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 12:14 PM
Nov 2019

It's true. Here's a link in case you were too busy defending drug warrior Joe to notice.



---

Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) said on Monday that she absolutely supports the legalization of marijuana. She cited racial disparities as a major reason for that stance.

“The best evidence suggests that African Americans and whites use marijuana at about the same rates,” she said at a CNN town hall in New Hampshire for presidential candidates.


“But African Americans are more likely to be arrested [than] whites are ... if we talk about criminal justice reform, we need to start with the things we make illegal. One of the best places we could start with is the legalization of marijuana.”

A Harvard freshman who asked Warren about her background on marijuana legalization incorrectly asserted that she had opposed legalization in Massachusetts in 2013.

“I supported Massachusetts changing its laws on marijuana and I now support the legalization of marijuana [in the United States],” the senator replied.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/elizabeth-warren-marijuana-legalization-cnn-town-hall_n_5cbe58ede4b0315683fc0b4a


You are so welcome!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
439. This has nothing whatsoever to do with my post...
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 02:37 PM
Nov 2019

Are you sure you're responding to the right person?




"Defending drug warrior Joe" whatever that means, is certainly not my point and nowhere did I say anything that would indicate it was my point.

Also, wasn't said to you.



Perhaps you're in the mood to needle someone, but you're barking up the wrong tree. Just a thought - you might want to try reading the posts before you start attacking someone for something that's just not there. It can make one look rather foolish.

But thanks for the lols.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
492. Yes, the crickets are quite loud, aren't they?
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 07:05 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,110 posts)
170. Completely!!
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 04:53 PM
Nov 2019

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Cha

(295,899 posts)
480. NO, Biden iDoes NOT the "need to go away", Hobbitstein
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 05:38 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,110 posts)
161. Seriously, what is Biden thinkin?! Oh well, another day, another gaffe!!
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 04:42 PM
Nov 2019

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

LittleGirl

(8,261 posts)
25. Oh good grief
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 11:27 AM
Nov 2019

Step down now Joe. Jesus this is the 21st century.
It’s my medicine.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

George II

(67,782 posts)
32. He's talking about recreational marijuana, not medicinal marijuana which is legal in many states.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 11:35 AM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LittleGirl

(8,261 posts)
37. It doesn't matter
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 11:48 AM
Nov 2019

MJ is here to stay whether he believes it or not. Sheesh.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Dr Hobbitstein

(6,568 posts)
172. Marijuana, whether recreational or medical, is illegal
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 04:57 PM
Nov 2019

at the federal level.

Both should be 100% legal.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

obamanut2012

(25,906 posts)
406. It is literally the same thing, and people should be able to buy cannabis products
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 01:44 PM
Nov 2019

The same as they can buy a fifth of whisky or a case of beer. Even more so, since cannabis is not destructive like alcohol is.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Thekaspervote

(32,606 posts)
28. Joe Biden is campaigning against dotard, everyone else is campaigning against him!!
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 11:30 AM
Nov 2019

More pile on the front runner

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Dr Hobbitstein

(6,568 posts)
31. Dotard's not in the primary.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 11:35 AM
Nov 2019

Biden should be running against the other candidates at this point.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Thekaspervote

(32,606 posts)
39. Seems to working whereas pushing against the front runner isn't
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 11:52 AM
Nov 2019

Negative comments do nothing to change the minds of voters

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

SterlingPound

(428 posts)
102. it sure seemed to work against Hillary for the last 20 years
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 02:33 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Thekaspervote

(32,606 posts)
526. Nice! So you're advocating pushing negatively against a dem front runner because you don't like him
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 03:24 AM
Nov 2019

That is so democratic of you

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

calguy

(5,222 posts)
33. I can say from 30 yrs pot smoking experience......
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 11:36 AM
Nov 2019

It never did lead to stronger drugs. When I was young, in my very early 20's and serving in the Army, we did experiment with LSD and mecsaline, but really only for about a 2-3 month time span and we all could clearly see that while it was a lot of fun, doing LSD was not a sustainable or healthy activity. We all went back to pot only. I reached a point in my life where just naturally quit smoking pot. Haven't touched it in 15 years or so.
From my experience I can say that the only thing smoking pot leads to is smoking more pot.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

Response to calguy (Reply #33)

 

walkingman

(7,507 posts)
35. He is wrong on that as are many in my generation. When you hear something over and over all of your
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 11:38 AM
Nov 2019

life for many it becomes the truth. I have personal experience for over 50 years and it has not proven to be that way for me.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

beastie boy

(9,059 posts)
36. Catchy headline. Has nothing to do with what Biden actually said.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 11:41 AM
Nov 2019

There is a hell of a difference between "it might be" and "not enough evidence it might be", is there?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Thekaspervote

(32,606 posts)
40. Oh..but you're spoiling their Sunday morning bashing!!
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 11:53 AM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

aikoaiko

(34,127 posts)
41. Not if you support federal restrictions as if there were evidence of significant harm.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 11:54 AM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

beastie boy

(9,059 posts)
48. Wanting to know more about it is hardly a statement of support.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 12:11 PM
Nov 2019

This is what Biden said: "I want to make sure we know a lot more about the science behind it.”

Not only does this have nothing to do with the header, it has nothing to do with lending support to federal restrictions on marijuana sales. Again, there is a hell of a difference between lending support and being undecided. In fact, wanting to know more is equivalent to withholding support, not lending it.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

aikoaiko

(34,127 posts)
49. Yes it is because he is maintaining the status quo...
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 12:13 PM
Nov 2019


...while equivocating over a bullshit issue.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

beastie boy

(9,059 posts)
64. That's a pretty loaded statement!
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 01:07 PM
Nov 2019

By implication, anyone who reserves judgement on any issue because he wants to know more about it, is guilty by default of advocating status quo on that issue. Does your position apply to other candidates who remain silent on marijuana legalization as well, or is your criticism reserved to just one candidate?

I do agree with you on one thing, though: this is a bullshit issue. I am stunned by the sheer volume of fake outrage generated over it in this thread.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

aikoaiko

(34,127 posts)
74. Not all issues are equal. Criminalizing cannabis ruins lives everyday.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 01:34 PM
Nov 2019

Every fucking day.

I have not heard any other candidates (at least the ones in the top tier) say anything about cannabis being a gateway drug.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

beastie boy

(9,059 posts)
78. Issues are different. Arguments are equal.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 01:40 PM
Nov 2019

That was my entire point. If the rules of logic change depending on issues, arguing anything becomes absolutely pointless.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Thekaspervote

(32,606 posts)
323. But you see this isn't really about marijuana legalization at all.. he's the front runner
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 04:20 AM
Nov 2019

You could change the post to the idiotic corn pop post or what he did 30 years ago and one would have the same responses. It’s a smoke screen to bash Biden

the same posters here are the same ones that declare outrage when EW or sanders are challenged

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

beastie boy

(9,059 posts)
369. This is crystal clear and beyond any doubt
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 10:08 AM
Nov 2019

I just want Biden bashers to go on record. Eventually they will have to re-read their nonsense and realize how ridiculous it is.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Thekaspervote

(32,606 posts)
527. And on record they are... Especially today with the official release of his stance
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 03:31 AM
Nov 2019

There is a lot of talk out there on where I stand when it comes to our marijuana laws. Here are the facts:
No one should be in jail for recreational use

Decriminalize recreational use and exsponge criminal records

Legalize medical marijuana and let the states legalize recreational use

Studies so health benefits can be determined



/photo/1




https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287350768
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Voltaire2

(12,618 posts)
225. He's against changing the laws.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 07:05 PM
Nov 2019

Doing nothing until the alleged science is settled means continuing the disastrous war on drugs, the mass incarcerations, and the real dangers of black market products.

Biden is hopelessly out of step on this issue.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

beastie boy

(9,059 posts)
231. He is not against changing laws. He just came against legalizing pot and facing uncertain outcome.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 07:30 PM
Nov 2019

And it's up to congress to change laws anyway, not him. But if I read his statement correctly, he is all in favor of decriminalizing casual possession of marijuana. That can be done without legalizing it nationally. In other words, replace three strikes and you are out with a slap on the wrist. I believe, since it will involve law enforcement rather than legislation, this can be done with an executive order.

And I would give some more respect to alleged science. You don't want to sound like climate change deniers, do you?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Voltaire2

(12,618 posts)
242. His direct quote.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 08:20 PM
Nov 2019

“It’s a debate, and I want a lot more before I legalize it nationally. I want to make sure we know a lot more about the science behind it.”


He’s hiding behind “need more research”. The effect is to continue the status quo.

And the argument that “ it's up to congress to change laws anyway, not him” , is ridiculous. Should we ignore all policy candidate positions that require legislation? Or just the positions we think are inconvenient?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

beastie boy

(9,059 posts)
244. Do you realize you just quoted Biden saying he is not against changing the law?
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 08:31 PM
Nov 2019

In your previous post you insist he is against changing the law. Now you are talking about the effect of him not being against changing the law, which you insist will continue status quo.

This ignores just about everything I posted. Even if the law doesn't change, decriminalizing pot will completely overturn the status quo. And unless you can find Biden's quote that states he is against DECRIMINALIZING pot, all the talk of status quo is one big red herring.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Voltaire2

(12,618 posts)
248. Sure in some nebulous future pending this
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 08:47 PM
Nov 2019

alleged research he might be open to not putting poor people in prison for pot. Meanwhile he is defending the status quo.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Thekaspervote

(32,606 posts)
324. So now wanting to have more information about an issue while allowing states to legalize is
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 04:22 AM
Nov 2019

Hiding?? Congrats!! That some great hand standing you did there

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Voltaire2

(12,618 posts)
464. He is using "we need more data" to hide his opposition to legalization.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 04:25 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Thekaspervote

(32,606 posts)
529. See post 527... Joe's official stance and it is nothing you have said it is
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 03:42 AM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

AJT

(5,240 posts)
42. Trump is more of a gateway drug than pot....
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 11:57 AM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LakeArenal

(28,713 posts)
43. He is evolving. From sure it's a gateway..
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 11:58 AM
Nov 2019

To not sure.
Besides if states all legalize it,he will have to change nationally.

But I also have smoked 50 plus years.
It’s always available. Everywhere.
Legal or not it’s always going to be to available.

Laws on possession getting easier. Medically you can get it. That’s huge change.

All that being said, Joe Biden remains the most qualified. Beating trump is more important than my personal desire to be on the legal side of pot. Way more.

If he never legalized pot nationally I will still be happy to have voted for the guy who made America American again.

Also, we had the too old crap and the. Anita Hill issue run out again. Soo guess the cannabis argument is run out again. Is someone coming out of the woodwork with the hug issue again?

These issues have done so little. I think it solidifies his support.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

aikoaiko

(34,127 posts)
44. Keeping cannabis illegal ruins peoples lives.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 12:00 PM
Nov 2019

Its not about one's personal desire to get baked.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

LakeArenal

(28,713 posts)
46. That is the exact problem.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 12:09 PM
Nov 2019

Still my spouse had a felony jail sentence for hash.

He agrees Joe Biden is the best candidate by far.

And that was pretty snarky on “one person’s desire to get baked” unless you were speaking of yourself. You know nothing about this person’s desires.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,110 posts)
290. BINGOOOOOOO!!
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 11:42 PM
Nov 2019

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,110 posts)
459. Not the weed issue with younger voters.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 03:55 PM
Nov 2019

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
47. I would like to see Pot decriminalized nationwide. Legalization should be a state by state issue. n
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 12:10 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LovingA2andMI

(7,006 posts)
54. Decriminalization Yes....
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 12:18 PM
Nov 2019

Legalization is all about the Profit Motive. Period.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

backscatter712

(26,355 posts)
455. So you think cops should be meting out punishments because people smoke a plant?
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 03:46 PM
Nov 2019

OK Boomer.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BeyondGeography

(39,278 posts)
50. Does he even have an adviser for younger voters?
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 12:13 PM
Nov 2019

His numbers with them are fugly and he adds waste like this to that dumpster fire regularly.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,110 posts)
168. Doubt it... maybe he will when he evolves a little more on the issue.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 04:51 PM
Nov 2019

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Thekaspervote

(32,606 posts)
325. Does your candidate have an advisor on the single most important voting block?
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 04:24 AM
Nov 2019

EW numbers are dismal with AA voters!!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LovingA2andMI

(7,006 posts)
51. On This One....
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 12:16 PM
Nov 2019

Biden is 100% right. About time someone pushes back on the Marijuana craze.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Dr Hobbitstein

(6,568 posts)
175. Ahh, yes. Reefer madness.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 04:59 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Celerity

(42,645 posts)
364. Marijuana craze
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 09:20 AM
Nov 2019


I personally do not smoke at all, it bores me, but it is hardly a 'craze'.

Calling it a craze is not a general election winner in terms of the demographics we need to turn out in a large way.

I would say the actual 'craze' was the utterly shambolic war on drugs.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LovingA2andMI

(7,006 posts)
371. It is most definitely a Craze....
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 10:49 AM
Nov 2019

Or a better term is fad. Whichever.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

obamanut2012

(25,906 posts)
409. Except it isn't a "fad" -- wtaf
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 01:48 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LovingA2andMI

(7,006 posts)
427. Yes and that is our strong opinion...
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 02:03 PM
Nov 2019

And last time we check, this is a Country that allows for both opinion and free speech.

Meanwhile, enjoy your Monday.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Voltaire2

(12,618 posts)
465. fad has been going on for decades (actually for millennia, but nevermind that.)
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 04:28 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Calculating

(2,954 posts)
477. It isn't a fad, it's about justice
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 05:25 PM
Nov 2019

It's wrong to ruin lives and arrest people over a plant which is less harmful than alcohol. That is a fact.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

LovingA2andMI

(7,006 posts)
523. Justice???
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 12:20 AM
Nov 2019

Decriminalization is JUSTICE. Legalization is PROFIT all day long.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

obamanut2012

(25,906 posts)
408. lolz you are soooo wrong
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 01:47 PM
Nov 2019

"Marijuana craze."

How about that beer craze? Or that Tito's craze? You know, alcohol, which actually does destroy lives and health.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

mr_lebowski

(33,643 posts)
52. Well, my first drug was nitrous at the dentist ... then nicotine, alcohol, and inhalants like glue
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 12:17 PM
Nov 2019

then barbiturates, then benzos ... those were all found around the house (or my grandparents house) when I was a kid.

THEN I tried pot, then shrooms, then acid, then coke, then speed, then ecstasy, then GHB, then pharmaceutical opioids ... the very last of which was the only one I really abused out of all of them that came before.

SOOOO ... what was the gateway drug, JOE?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

jmbar2

(4,832 posts)
111. chocolate milk
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 02:52 PM
Nov 2019

Admit it. Chocolate milk comes first. It's all a slippery slope after that.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

tonedevil

(3,022 posts)
112. The same dealer had strawberry flavoring...
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 02:57 PM
Nov 2019

I can't say how many times I was caught with pink powder all over my face, but I just couldn't stop.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,110 posts)
173. Breast milk/formula is the problem... it's madness!!
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 04:57 PM
Nov 2019

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

melman

(7,681 posts)
55. Hate to break it to you Joe
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 12:29 PM
Nov 2019

But this war's over and weed won.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,110 posts)
176. LOL... Joe is more of touch than I thought with this latest gaffe. Unbelievable!!
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 04:59 PM
Nov 2019

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Thekaspervote

(32,606 posts)
326. Hate to break it to you but he knows that and seems fine with it
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 04:26 AM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

melman

(7,681 posts)
370. Uh
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 10:34 AM
Nov 2019

Did you read his comments in the linked article?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Thekaspervote

(32,606 posts)
530. See post 527 Biden's official stance and it's nothing that you or the op claims
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 03:44 AM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

melman

(7,681 posts)
541. I've seen it
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 12:48 PM
Nov 2019

Last edited Tue Nov 19, 2019, 01:35 PM - Edit history (1)

He's still against legalization.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Basic LA

(1,705 posts)
59. He's stuck in a 1950's time warp.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 12:45 PM
Nov 2019

He might as well wear a Davy Crockett coonskin cap. Joe, wake up! We need you here now in the 21st century.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,110 posts)
288. It's reefer madness!!
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 11:38 PM
Nov 2019

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

jalan48

(13,797 posts)
60. Is this part of returning to the good old days?
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 12:45 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Ace Rothstein

(3,101 posts)
61. Don't be surprised if younger voters stay home again if Biden is the nominee.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 12:47 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Ferrets are Cool

(21,059 posts)
67. I am very afraid of this.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 01:12 PM
Nov 2019

They, at least the ones I know, need very little reason to stay home. We, as a party, should not be feeding excuses to them.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Bradshaw3

(7,454 posts)
106. Your fears are justified
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 02:44 PM
Nov 2019
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/nov/15/joe-biden-supporters-millennials-youth-vote

"he majority of the young people present were either employed by the Biden campaign or had some sort of fellowship with the campaign. They had been told they weren’t allowed to speak to journalists. ..."
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
107. F'ing YIKES
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 02:49 PM
Nov 2019

😬

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Bradshaw3

(7,454 posts)
110. He is at about 2 percent among younger voters in Iowa
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 02:52 PM
Nov 2019

And for all the talk about his support among AA voters, he has lower numbers there than HRC. And she lost almost 7 percent of AA voters from Obama. He is far from a sure thing in the GE.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

MarcA

(2,195 posts)
140. Gaining a few thousand drumph voters while losing millions
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 04:10 PM
Nov 2019

will lead to a loss not only in the electoral college but in the Popular Vote as well.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

treestar

(82,383 posts)
243. over this alone?
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 08:29 PM
Nov 2019

that's insulting them.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Thekaspervote

(32,606 posts)
327. Oh come on!! Young voters are historically bad at voting
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 04:29 AM
Nov 2019

They give a bizillion excuses every election cycle

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

The Mouth

(3,123 posts)
475. Completely correct
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 05:07 PM
Nov 2019

WE could probably find someone more out of touch to run, if we really tried.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Jake Stern

(3,145 posts)
62. This is definitely one area where Biden and I diverge
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 12:51 PM
Nov 2019

MJ prohibition is causing very real hurt for people and needs to be stopped.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

colsohlibgal

(5,275 posts)
63. No Way
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 01:01 PM
Nov 2019

I never did a ton of it but knew people who did and none had an urge to go try more serious drugs.

So sorry Joe, this is BS.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LiberalBrooke

(527 posts)
66. Mother's milk is a gateway drug.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 01:11 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

vercetti2021

(10,150 posts)
68. Keeps me off drugs
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 01:20 PM
Nov 2019

Medical sense. When I was on antidepressants. I had a really bad reaction to them and became very erratic. Weed helped me mentally and still does. Come on, Joe. Live in 2019.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

JudyM

(29,122 posts)
71. It also helps diminish opioid use and dependency.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 01:29 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

nilesobek

(1,423 posts)
72. I hope the DNC dumps Biden in the next couple of months.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 01:32 PM
Nov 2019

Trump rarely mentions marijuana because the subject is RADIOACTIVE and a vote killer.

Let's nominate someone not so prone to gaffes, someone not so prone to memory lapses, someone not so prone to sniffing hair...

You only have to go back to 2016 to see how phony these polls are. What a bad move by Biden.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Thekaspervote

(32,606 posts)
329. Corn pop!! Got anything else??
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 04:30 AM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

Response to aikoaiko (Original post)

 

LovingA2andMI

(7,006 posts)
89. Surprise this post is still standing...
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 02:09 PM
Nov 2019
"Honestly Biden has always been a dumb-ass and i doubt it will ever change."
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

SterlingPound

(428 posts)
93. why it is the most honest thing said in biden threads, lol
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 02:25 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

MustLoveBeagles

(11,563 posts)
114. Yeah
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 03:10 PM
Nov 2019

That was really uncalled for.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

James48

(4,416 posts)
77. I cannot support that guy.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 01:38 PM
Nov 2019

I’m sorry.

Anybody else, I’ll work extra hard to get elected.

But Biden just doesn’t do it for me. With positions like that, I won’t be surprised if the Nazi gets re-elected.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
80. Biden is right.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 01:42 PM
Nov 2019

Those selling the notion that marijuana is problem-free are not telling the truth. Our schools are seeing a terrible impact on students. Teacher, councilors, and administrators at my local high school are very caring and very progressive people; they are tearing their hair out over the terrible impacts that run-away pot consumption is having.

Failed academics, loss of ambition, mental and emotional problems are rampant.

This is a crisis.

Marijuana is not risk free. It is damaging our society.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
86. Who's saying it's risk free?
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 02:04 PM
Nov 2019

Tobacco isn't risk free. Neither is alcohol. Neither are any and all drugs - prescription and over-the-counter.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
90. The negative impacts of Marijuana are FAR FAR greater than its proponents argue.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 02:19 PM
Nov 2019

We are seeing major problems happening right now--before our very eyes.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
91. Source? What is the evidence of these effects in Colorado? nt
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 02:21 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
94. I'm seeing it here in CA. I was recently at a parent/staff meeting at our local high school.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 02:26 PM
Nov 2019

They have never seen the kinds of issues; failing grades, falling ambitions, behavioral and mental issues, that they have since pot became legal here. They are beside themselves. And these are caring, compassionate, and very liberal people.

You are fooling yourself if you think pot is benign.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
98. Correlation is not causation
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 02:29 PM
Nov 2019

A lot of teens are depressed and distraught and hopeless because they see the state of the world their parents and grandparents are leaving them.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
119. Exactly. Even IF pot is that much of a problem, it's a symptom, not a cause.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 03:33 PM
Nov 2019

Surprised at Biden saying this.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
207. It isn't correlation, it's causation. Direct causation.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 05:32 PM
Nov 2019

Young minds perform poorly on pot. It interferes with learning and undermines academic success.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

questionseverything

(9,631 posts)
320. no one is saying it should be legal for children
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 03:47 AM
Nov 2019

geesh

biden is so out of touch, keeping it illegal at the federal level means peops in subsidized housing are going to be treated differently than peops in mansion

same ole shit dif decade

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

obamanut2012

(25,906 posts)
412. Link to where minors are allowed to buy cannabis?
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 01:51 PM
Nov 2019

Guess what, you have no link, because they can't.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
415. I live in the real world. Minors are getting pot deliveries here.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 01:53 PM
Nov 2019

Minors are also not supposed to take Uber and Lyft. LOL.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Quixote1818

(28,903 posts)
391. Well, that is interesting since use is dropping with CA teens
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 01:01 PM
Nov 2019

Please stop just making stuff up. It's not a good look for you.


https://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/8661981-181/marijuana-use-declines-among-california

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
393. That is some serious BS.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 01:07 PM
Nov 2019

Use by students is skyrocketing according to the teachers and staff at my local high school. They are quite desperate about what's happening and say the problem is district wide.

I believe the people who are on the front lines of education.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Quixote1818

(28,903 posts)
395. LOL Please provide a link then with some actual stats. You are something else.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 01:10 PM
Nov 2019

Your little circle is not science or real statistics.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
397. You do realize that the study you linked to was done BEFORE marijuana was legalized...
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 01:23 PM
Nov 2019

here in California? Rates WERE dropping. Not anymore. Quite the opposite. And the exploding use is harming young people.

"The brain remains in a state of active, experience-guided development from the prenatal period through childhood and adolescence until the age of approximately 21 years.9 During these developmental periods, it is intrinsically more vulnerable than a mature brain to the adverse long-term effects of environmental insults, such as exposure to tetrahydrocannabinol, or THC, the primary active ingredient in marijuana. This view has received considerable support from studies in animals, which have shown, for example, that prenatal or adolescent exposure to THC can recalibrate the sensitivity of the reward system to other drugs10 and that prenatal exposure interferes with cytoskeletal dynamics, which are critical for the establishment of axonal connections between neurons.11"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4827335/


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Quixote1818

(28,903 posts)
436. We can go round and round but the bottom line is the pros of legalization outweigh the cons
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 02:28 PM
Nov 2019

Are there possible health concerns for heavy users? Yes possibly but again having it illegal just creates a crap load of good people becoming criminals, ramps up the stupid war on drugs etc. and the list is a mile long. People will do it either way so it might as well be legal and regulated.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
438. We need a better path. CA is a disaster. Pot is not "regulated."
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 02:37 PM
Nov 2019

I trust you've now read the links that show illegal business dwarf the regulated (legal) ones?

And we have to get real about the serious harm to young minds. Flooding our society with a drug that teens can easily access with the message that it does NO HARM is lie that will devastate far too many lives.


Adverse Effects of Short-Term Use and Long-Term or Heavy Use of Marijuana.

Effects of short-term use:

Impaired short-term memory, making it difficult to learn and to retain information

Impaired motor coordination, interfering with driving skills and increasing the risk of injuries
Altered judgment, increasing the risk of sexual behaviors that facilitate the transmission of sexually transmitted diseases

In high doses, paranoia and psychosis

Effects of long-term or heavy use:

Addiction (in about 9% of users overall, 17% of those who begin use in adolescence, and 25 to 50% of those who are daily users)*

Altered brain development*

Poor educational outcome, with increased likelihood of dropping out of school*

Cognitive impairment, with lower IQ among those who were frequent users during adolescence*

Diminished life satisfaction and achievement (determined on the basis of subjective and objective measures as compared with such ratings in the general population)*

Symptoms of chronic bronchitis

Increased risk of chronic psychosis disorders (including schizophrenia) in persons with a predisposition to such disorders

*The effect is strongly associated with initial marijuana use early in adolescence.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Quixote1818

(28,903 posts)
442. So then you want to make alcohol illegal then to correct? because it's 1000 times worse. nt
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 02:42 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
445. Did I say I wanted to make pot illegal? I don't want to see alcohol consumed by students
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 02:48 PM
Nov 2019

while they are at school. Mercifully, that's pretty rare.

In contrast, vaping on campus during the school day is becoming rampant. And that is interfering with students' ability to learn and is undermining their cognitive functioning and proper brain development.

It is a big problem.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Quixote1818

(28,903 posts)
448. Funny. We are mostly in agreement then and I should have read the OP in more detail
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 02:56 PM
Nov 2019

since it says Biden is for legalized pot. Have a great day.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Quixote1818

(28,903 posts)
390. Absolute BS. LOL What major problems? Compared to Alcohol Marijuana is extremely tame
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 12:52 PM
Nov 2019

You keep spouting all this anecdotal evidence and it isn't flying.

https://drugabuse.com/marijuana-vs-alcohol/

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
392. "Adults who smoked marijuana regularly during adolescence have impaired neural connectivity...
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 01:04 PM
Nov 2019

(fewer fibers) in specific brain regions. These include the precuneus, a key node that is involved in functions that require a high degree of integration (e.g., alertness and self-conscious awareness), and the fimbria, an area of the hippocampus that is important in learning and memory."

One of a long list of serious harms that comes with marijuana use. Especially by adolescents. We are making a huge mistake as a society to treat marijuana as if it is a harmless drug. It is not.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4827335/

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Quixote1818

(28,903 posts)
394. LOL. Lack of sleep has the same effects. Why do you keep posting stuff about kids?
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 01:09 PM
Nov 2019

It's against the law for kids? And use is dropping in CA even though you keep suggesting based on your little bubble that everything is going to hell in a hand-basket.

https://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/8661981-181/marijuana-use-declines-among-california

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
396. "The negative effect of marijuana use on the functional connectivity of the brain
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 01:12 PM
Nov 2019

is particularly prominent if use starts in adolescence or young adulthood,12 which may help to explain the finding of an association between frequent use of marijuana from adolescence into adulthood and significant declines in IQ.16 The impairments in brain connectivity associated with exposure to marijuana in adolescence are consistent with preclinical findings indicating that the cannabinoid system plays a prominent role in synapse formation during brain development.17"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4827335/

Use is way up. The poll you posted is pure BS. I post about kids because I have one. And I care about what pot consumption is doing to his generation. It is devastating. But you say LOL.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Quixote1818

(28,903 posts)
398. Even your article suggests it still up for debate
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 01:29 PM
Nov 2019

Snip:
Although multiple studies have reported detrimental effects, others have not, and the question of whether marijuana is harmful remains the subject of heated debate. Here we review the current state of the science related to the adverse health effects of the recreational use of marijuana, focusing on those areas for which the evidence is strongest.

Key word is "Evidence".


Web MD:

The Bottom Line on Marijuana
There is some evidence that occasional pot smoking can have harmful effects on the body, although the science is still too new to prove anything.

"We're learning new things every day," says Matthew J. Smith, PhD, a research assistant professor at the Northwestern University Feinberg School of Medicine. "Before we can really understand the effects of marijuana, further research is needed."

https://www.webmd.com/pain-management/features/is-marijuana-safe-web#3


Snip:
So far, states that have legalized recreational marijuana have not seen an increase in use among underage teens, Altieri says.

"By legalizing it and normalizing it," he says, "it's become just another everyday thing that adults partake in — it doesn't have that same draw to it that it used to."

Still, McCormick says, many health questions remain to be answered by better research. The increased legal availability of cannabis products in many states, and their increased potency, she says, make that rigorous research more important than ever.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/01/12/509488977/marijuanas-health-effects-scientists-weigh-in

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
399. And how long did we have to deal with questions over whether tobacco was addictive or caused cancer?
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 01:35 PM
Nov 2019

A long time.

Meanwhile, I'm seeing educators throwing up red-flags, saying they have never seen anything like the degree of problems with drug abuse negatively harming students in their entire careers.

So we can ignore the warnings, laugh them off, call it "reefer madness," or we can be adults and deal with reality.

I know my choice.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,110 posts)
435. Anything to defend Biden... ol'Joe clearly missed the boat in this one!!
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 02:26 PM
Nov 2019

It's not even arguable.


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,110 posts)
461. Say wah? Totally!
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 03:57 PM
Nov 2019

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

obamanut2012

(25,906 posts)
410. lolz -- zero, actual evidence
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 01:50 PM
Nov 2019

REEFER MADNESS

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
413. "Marijuana use by adolescents is particularly troublesome.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 01:52 PM
Nov 2019

Adolescents’ increased vulnerability to adverse long-term outcomes from marijuana use is probably related to the fact that the brain, including the endocannabinoid system, undergoes active development during adolescence.6 Indeed, early and regular marijuana use predicts an increased risk of marijuana addiction, which in turn predicts an increased risk of the use of other illicit drugs.7 As compared with persons who begin to use marijuana in adulthood, those who begin in adolescence are approximately 2 to 4 times as likely to have symptoms of cannabis dependence within 2 years after first use.8"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4827335/

The science isn't on your side.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Voltaire2

(12,618 posts)
468. Nobody is proposing legalization for minors.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 04:33 PM
Nov 2019

And there is little if any valid science. There is a lot of conjecture, as in the cited article. Meanwhile adolescents have been smoking pot, illegally for the last 50 years and the world hasn't fallen apart, so despite the scare articles like the one from the nih, all that would change is that we could deal with adolescent drug use as a medical instead of a criminal problem.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
470. The NIH is a "scare article?" LOL.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 04:41 PM
Nov 2019

And is isn't true that adolescents have been ingesting THC at the rate and frequency we are seeing today with the advent of vape pens.

Lives are falling apart. We should not turn a blind eye to a serious mental and emotional health crisis that is happening as we speak.

It is a false proposition that anyone wants to treat this as a "criminal problem." The real issue is that marijuana proponents will NOT treat this as a medical problem. And it IS A PROBLEM. A big problem.

We need to get in front of this. Now.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Voltaire2

(12,618 posts)
471. Yes unfortunately it is.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 04:48 PM
Nov 2019

But if you read up on the data that is available you would, if you don't let your biases blind you, discover that there is no evidence that marijuana causes any of the problems cited in the article, that there are much better models that explain the correlation than the 'gateway drug' bullshit that Anslinger cooked up all on his own:


When Congress was first debating the bill that criminalized marijuana in 1937, Harry Anslinger—the godfather of the War on Drugs—rejected any notion that marijuana use led to other drugs. During the marijuana hearings, Representative John Dingell asked Anslinger, “I am just wondering whether the marijuana addict graduates into a heroin, an opium, or a cocaine user?” Anslinger replied, “No, sir. I have not heard of a case of that kind. I think it is an entirely different class. The marijuana addict does not go in that direction.”

When the Cold War started, the narrative changed. As politicians mongered fear about communist takeovers, the narrative for marijuana use shifted to mirror Red Scare talking points. According to the “domino theory,” the Cold War was necessary because once one country fell to communism, the rest would supposedly fall. Although the domino analogy was originally proposed by President Dwight Eisenhower in 1954, the origins of the idea are found in the Truman Doctrine of the 1940s.

In 1951, Anslinger adapted this logic to cannabis in a complete contradiction of his 1937 statements. At the time, it was referred to as the “progression theory” or the “stepping-stone thesis,” before the term “gateway drug” gained currency. During the Boggs Act Hearings, Anslinger said, “Over 50 percent of these young addicts started on marijuana smoking. They started there and graduated to heroin; they took the needle when the thrill of marihuana was gone.

https://mises.org/wire/gateway-drug-myth

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
473. Rightwing source vs the National Institute of Health
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 04:51 PM
Nov 2019

We sure look to different sources.

and you are engaging in denialism that there are even a medical and emotional health problems that we need to deal with.

You are behind the curve on this one.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Voltaire2

(12,618 posts)
481. Scientific American
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 05:43 PM
Nov 2019
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-science-behind-the-dea-s-long-war-on-marijuana/


Marijuana’s placement in Schedule I did not happen in a vacuum, historians note. Overt racism, combined with New Deal reforms and bureaucratic self-interest are often blamed for the first round of federal cannabis prohibition under the Marihuana Tax Act of 1937, which restricted possession to those who paid a steep tax for a limited set of medical and industrial applications. (Cannabis was removed from the official U.S. Pharmacopeia in 1942.) “In segregated America newspapers were saying, ‘this stuff makes white women and black men have sex,’” notes historian Martin Lee, author of Smoke Signals: A Social History of Marijuana.

The American Medical Association initially opposed prohibition. Cannabis was medically useful, says William Woodward, association counsel. “Congress being what it was at the time, you could ram things through just by bullshitting,” Lee adds. “Who’s going to be stepping up to the plate [in 1937] to defend a drug that blacks, Latinos and jazz musicians use?”

The Tax Act passed amid New Deal reforms, and the first marijuana peddlers were arrested and jailed that year. Science reared its head within a decade, though. In 1944 the La Guardia Committee report from the New York Academy of Medicine was the first in a long line of official bodies to question the prohibition. The committee found marijuana not physically addictive, not a gateway drug and that it did not lead to crime. But Harry Anslinger, head of the then–Federal Bureau of Narcotics, labeled the report unscientific and prohibition rolled on. “Every 10 years since then—although we’re a bit off schedule—some august governing body has reviewed the data and come up with the same finding [against prohibition],” Abrams says.



You should read the entire article. For example:


Researchers say this represents a classic catch-22, as the paucity of research is the direct result of a federal blockade on such research by the DEA and the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA). “The reason we don’t have more data is because it’s quite difficult to study. The only legal source of cannabis is NIDA, which has a Congressional mandate to only study its harms,” Abrams says. Researchers also note that about two dozen countries including Israel, Canada and the Netherlands as well as several legalization states such as California and Colorado, have reams of scientific data on the safety and efficacy of smoked cannabis as well as other formulations. While NIDA’s primary work focuses largely on studies involving drug abuse and addiction, the organization does fund some research on therapeutic uses for THC as well.*


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

LovingA2andMI

(7,006 posts)
88. Exactly!!
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 02:06 PM
Nov 2019

If the effort was not about the profit motive, decriminalization instead of so called "legalization" would be in the forefront. It is about time a DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE calls this out and if it is Joe Biden, so be it,

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Aaron Pereira

(383 posts)
201. I think he's right to slow down on federal legalization.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 05:26 PM
Nov 2019

I come from a state where it's legal. At first I supported legalization thinking it would make no difference but after watching a dramatic and sometimes negative effect in practice I'm having second thoughts.

I'd like to put the brakes on legalization at the federal level until we've had more time to study what's happening in legal states.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
282. Are we going to do something about alcohol?
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 11:33 PM
Nov 2019

Last edited Mon Nov 18, 2019, 12:13 AM - Edit history (1)

Alcohol is legal and we already know what it does. It gives people delusional tremors, hangovers, and it leads to violence.

Data on 1,887 convicted homicide offenders were examined to discern the relationships between alcohol and/or drug use and murder. Information obtained through confidential interviews at state prisons and local jails provided demographics and information on drinking and drug use immediately before the crime and relevant data on the offenders' typical drinking style. About 50 percent of the offenders were under the influence of alcohol at the time of the crime, similar to the rate found by other studies. Substance use was more prevalent than nonuse before the homicide: 36 percent used alcohol only, 13 percent used both alcohol and drugs, 7 percent used drugs only, and 43 percent did not use either. A heavier style of drinking is much more prevalent among homicide offenders than in the general population.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/004723529090002S

Also DUIs. You can tell people not to drink & drive but their judgment is impaired so they think they can still drive so DUIs happen.

As someone who doesn't like alcohol what should I do in a red state where a pot seed is a felony besides move?

On edit -- I wish someone was around to tell Nixon to put the brakes on the War on Drugs.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

obamanut2012

(25,906 posts)
414. Except this is literally not true, and there is zero proof of this
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 01:52 PM
Nov 2019

You and others are just making up Reefer Madness "facts."

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Aaron Pereira

(383 posts)
456. Can you point to where I invented facts?
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 03:46 PM
Nov 2019

I've observed changes since legalization and in my post I said I'd like the Federal Government to gather more facts in legalization states.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
252. It is not a gateway drug that is a myth
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 09:30 PM
Nov 2019

People really don't understand cannabis at all.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
494. What state are you in? Is pot legal there? Are there statistics about increases in these
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 07:25 PM
Nov 2019

"terrible impacts" since marijuana was legalized?

In my state, WA, pot is legal and they haven't seen any pattern linking pot to an increase in crime.

And pot is still illegal for high school students, just like alcohol is. And students are smoking less pot since legalization.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/health/washington-state-teens-are-toking-less-since-cannabis-was-legalized-new-study-says/

Cannabis use by teenagers in Washington has dropped since the drug was legalized in 2012, according to a study published Wednesday by the Journal of the American Medical Association.

The study comprised two years of data, from 2014-2016, and showed decreases in marijuana usage by teens in middle- and high school. Use among 8th graders dropped from 9.8 to 7.3 percent over that period and among 10th graders, use fell from 19.8 to 17.8 percent. Use by seniors remained flat at just over one in four students, 26.7 percent, during that period, according the study.

Legal age to consume marijuana in Washington is 21.

https://mynorthwest.com/1564141/wsu-study-crime-marijuana/?

The WSU study considered Washington and Colorado, as well as control states – 21 states that did not legalize recreational or medical marijuana.

“What we found essentially was that there was really no difference between Washington, Colorado and these states,” Willits said. “There are caveats – we only looked at certain types of crime and marijuana has only been legal for a certain amount of time. But overall, we didn’t find any consistent pattern of crime increasing or decreasing compared to the control states.”

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

loyalsister

(13,390 posts)
545. It's true that marijuana is not risk free
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 07:01 PM
Nov 2019

and I think some activists have overshot with trying to paint it as a harmless miracle cure.
But, Biden is wrong on this because his exact rhetoric has been used for decades to systematically destroy lives using criminal laws.
We need to do a lot of work to have a better understanding of drug seeking and compulsive behaviors. In the meantime, people are dying from opioid overdoses more often in states that do not have legal marijuana and families are still suffering because of criminalization and mass incarceration.
The negative consequences of marijuana prohibition are a bigger problem than he seems to want to realize.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
546. Not true about Biden.
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 07:37 PM
Nov 2019

Neither he (or I) think anyone should be in prison or jail over simple pot smoking.

But I see how badly legalization has gone here in CA. It was better by-far under the previous legalized medical marijuana laws that we had here. Under that plan any adult that wanted marijuana could get a "pot doctor" to write a prescription. 100%.

Fine by me.

Dispensaries were very tight about who they let in and who they sold herb. The business was pretty discrete. No one who wanted a legal source of cannabis products denied. No one was criminalized. Being "approved" for a script was simply a matter of paying a doctor's fee. The legal fiction worked pretty well.

Legalization for recreational use, in contrast, has been a nightmare. Illegal shops are everywhere. As are illegal delivery services. These criminal enterprises don't all sell to minors, but teens know who will.

We don't want lives destroyed in the criminal process, and I'm with you there.

But lives are also being destroyed due to heavy marijuana use by teens, who can get the stuff are more easily now compared with pre-2018.

That there are other drug crises--such as the opioid crisis--doesn't change the truth that we have a serious public health problem with marijuana abuse by teens. It is real. It is not "reefer madness."

We need to deal with the full spectrum of reality when it comes to marijuana.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

loyalsister

(13,390 posts)
547. Anyone who is willing to compromise on legality
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 08:18 PM
Nov 2019

and is willing to rely on drug war rhetoric cannot credibly say they give a damn about people whose lives have been ruined by the inherently racist criminal justice process.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
549. I don't think either of these things describes Joe Biden.
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 08:34 PM
Nov 2019

He is clear that no one should be in jail for smoking pot.

He's also ahead of the curve for understanding that lives can also be ruined by drug abuse, especially adolescents who are especially at risk of addiction, altered brain development, academic failure (including high drop-out rates), cognitive impairment, lowered IQ, reduced achievement, and increased mental and emotional health issues due to heavy marijuana use.

Those who don't give seem to a damn about the real threats to America's youth don't deserve to be in positions of leadership in my estimation. We need to promote the general welfare for all our people, including the most vulnerable.


.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

loyalsister

(13,390 posts)
550. If he wants to leave it to states
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 09:03 PM
Nov 2019

he is willing to allow for criminalization.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
553. And if he were to follow the lead of my home state, California, he'd be...
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 09:32 PM
Nov 2019

unleashing serous harm on our most vulnerable.

The situation here is seriously messed up and should serve as a cautionary tale to the rest of the country.

There has to be a better way. One that decriminalizes marijuana use, but doesn't sacrifice a large part of a generation in the process.

Biden gets this. Many of his rivals seem like they are seriously behind the curve.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

loyalsister

(13,390 posts)
557. And in my state, I have seen people drink themselves to death
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 10:58 PM
Nov 2019

We are all behind the curve when it comes to fully understanding addiction. He is further behind because he's stuck in that era and criminality is a solution he still takes pride in.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
558. No Biden doesn't take "pride" in criminalizing marijuana.
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 11:04 PM
Nov 2019

We do need to understand addiction. That's precisely Biden's message.

He is ahead of the curve. We need to be able to decriminalize pot w/o undermining the health and well being of a generation of young people.

Being able to do two things at once is the hallmark of the liberal Democratic Party.

Following CA's lead isn not a path forward. We've botched this badly.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

redstateblues

(10,565 posts)
81. Oh the outrage! Maybe I won't vote now.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 01:46 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
87. The question isn't whether anyone on DU will vote for Joe if he's the noninee
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 02:05 PM
Nov 2019

it's all those other voters we need.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
83. That viewpoint is about 20 years behind the times.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 01:52 PM
Nov 2019

Not good.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
92. Nah. Biden is way ahead of the curve. Those claiming legal pot is all "groovey" are wrong.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 02:23 PM
Nov 2019

Society is already paying a huge price. It will only get worse.

Talk to staff in any high school where pot is legal or easily available. They will tell you the real story.

We have a generation in crisis.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

melman

(7,681 posts)
96. I've got news for you
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 02:28 PM
Nov 2019

Pot has been easily available for a long time.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
104. Not like now. And not in vape form.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 02:37 PM
Nov 2019

Kids are getting high at school and it is almost undetectable, except in failing grades and emotional health crises.

Laugh away.

You are dead wrong.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

melman

(7,681 posts)
138. I'm not wrong
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 04:07 PM
Nov 2019

When I was in high school weed was everywhere. Totally easy to get..as was acid and everything else.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
139. One could not take a hit off a joint during passing periods and think it wasn't a bust.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 04:10 PM
Nov 2019

Now there are some kids who even hit vape pens during classes.

You are not being real.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Jewls2

(218 posts)
142. Except plenty of us on this thread was doing exactly that. As you tell us we could not do it
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 04:12 PM
Nov 2019

back then. It is like you and other opposing pot and wanting to use it as an excuse for the woes of our generation totally make up a scenario and state it as facts while many of us know otherwise thru actual experience.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

melman

(7,681 posts)
143. If you think kids never got high at school before
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 04:12 PM
Nov 2019

then you are the one not being real.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
147. Not at the rate that's going on today.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 04:16 PM
Nov 2019

Then, there were a few fuck-ups who were getting stoned at school.

Vape technology has changed things dramatically. I'm listening to the people on the front lines in the schools.

You are not being real. Our young people will pay the costs of willful ignorance of reality.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

melman

(7,681 posts)
155. If you are of an age to have kids in high school
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 04:37 PM
Nov 2019

Then there is no way kids weren't doing drugs when you were in school. None.

That kind of generation gap just isn't possible anymore.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
200. Asked and answered. The rate of the problem is different.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 05:22 PM
Nov 2019

My generation had problems as well. They were more limited. Not many people lit up on the walks between classes. And we all knew who "the stoners" were, and we knew how well heavy pot smoking worked out for them.

These days many kids are hitting vape pens all day long. It is having a serious impact on their emotional and mental health and on their academic achievement.

Remember how well "the stoners" who got high at school fared when you were in school? I sure do.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
255. A few fuck ups?
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 09:32 PM
Nov 2019

Do you realize plenty of productive people use cannabis.

Gateway drug is a myth and I can't believe I still see people peddling that horseshit at DU.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
256. How did the students you knew who smoked pot during school hours end up?
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 09:33 PM
Nov 2019

Pot doesn't need to be a "gateway" drug," it has enough problems on its own terms.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
259. I'm one of them
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 09:39 PM
Nov 2019

I have a disability from war but that isn't cannabis fault. The cannabis helps with the PTSD.

I went to high school in the early 2000s there weren't any stoner stereotypes like you saw in the movies. We had "stoners" on the football team.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
262. Sorry to hear of your war injury. And I'm glad if cannabis helps give you relief.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 09:43 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 
280. Was in high school same time as you
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 11:14 PM
Nov 2019

Pot wasn’t a problem, drinking was. Even during class. People would fill their nalgene “water” bottles with their mixed drink of choice.

Weed legalization is a dumb hill to die on, it’s called weed for a reason...

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
281. Alcohol always is a bigger problem
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 11:17 PM
Nov 2019

I think charging people with crimes over marijuana is dumb & much like alcohol prohibition it is counterproductive. It is better to regulate something than it is to ban it which drives it underground & makes it more dangerous. The black market is the gateway drug. It is better to buy cannabis at a store that also doesn't sell meth or heroin.

I'm willing to die on the hill of criminal justice reform & ending mass incarceration I believe cannabis legalization is part of that. I think the fact cannabis is a Schedule I drug is dumb.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 
291. I'm in 100% agreement
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 11:46 PM
Nov 2019

My final sentence of “hill to die on” was not well phrased. I was meaning it in the context of this thread, not the larger issue at hand.

Completely agree that making something illegal doesn’t magically make it stop, all it does is drive it underground. Just very shortsighted (and Repub I might add) to outlaw something and then be surprised when people break said law.

Weed needs to be taken off the Schedule I list yesterday. If it’s a gateway for anything, it’s making people wonder “what else is bullshit that’s the experts are shoveling down my throat?” We already have enough misinformation as it is, why are we adding to it by keeping weed Schedule I?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

sweetloukillbot

(10,788 posts)
444. According to the article Biden supports rescheduling
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 02:47 PM
Nov 2019

He also supports MMJ and decriminalizing possession.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
298. Actually, it is called dope for a reason.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 12:06 AM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

mike_c

(36,214 posts)
305. I'm late to the party as usual...
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 12:33 AM
Nov 2019

...but I'm one of those students. I'm 64. I began smoking cannabis when I was 15, and I've done it ever since, including during high school, college, and grad school. Fifty years, smoking daily for many of them. I ended up with a great career in academic science and a decent retirement. Good times.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

progressoid

(49,825 posts)
265. Vaping may have increased, overall it hasn't changed much.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 09:52 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
267. Your own graph shows about a 50% increase in one year (between 2017 and 2018).
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 09:58 PM
Nov 2019

That's a huge jump. I'd like to see the stats from places like CA where recreational marijuana is legal and where illegal dispensaries abound.

What I do know is that the schools here are calling pot use by high school students a crisis that is damaging young people's futures.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

progressoid

(49,825 posts)
268. VAPING has increased.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 10:03 PM
Nov 2019

They're just substituting vaping for rolling or using a bong, etc.

The overall use of weed is basically flat over the last two decades.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
269. Correct. It is nearly all vaping.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 10:06 PM
Nov 2019

That's a huge part of the problem. Bong hits and smoking joints are not "stealthy."

In contrast, vaping is pretty discrete. That's leading to students using on campus, to their detriment.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

progressoid

(49,825 posts)
276. So the problem is discretion?
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 10:48 PM
Nov 2019
We can't tell when these darn whippersnappers are smoking the demon weed now!!11!


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
279. The easily concealable act of vaping is certainly part of the problem...
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 11:00 PM
Nov 2019

because it makes it very easy to vape on campus.

Young people can't learn well when they are stoned. Not possible.

Too bad that you are making light of a serious problem.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

progressoid

(49,825 posts)
285. No, we're making light of Biden's antiquated views.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 11:34 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
287. His ideas are not antiquated in the least.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 11:38 PM
Nov 2019

Those who think marijuana use is without downsides are dead wrong, especially with young minds.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

progressoid

(49,825 posts)
295. " Biden Says Marijuana Might Be A Gateway Drug"
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 12:02 AM
Nov 2019

the end.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
297. The beginning, as he will be our next president and a person of reason on this issue.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 12:04 AM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

progressoid

(49,825 posts)
306. He's a sensible woodchuck.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 12:34 AM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

tonedevil

(3,022 posts)
97. If you had anything beyond FUD...
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 02:29 PM
Nov 2019

you would have produced it by now. The 1930s called and they want their bullshit propaganda back.








FUD - Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
101. "Groovey?"
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 02:32 PM
Nov 2019

Omg.

Btw, pot was “easily available” when I was in high school in the late 70s.

It wasn’t legal then. It’s still not legal in my state, but it was easier for us to buy pot than booze lol.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
103. Laugh all you want, we have a generation in crisis.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 02:34 PM
Nov 2019

But ignore reality. That will get us somewhere.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Jewls2

(218 posts)
121. I do not know that I buy that, being immersed in the younger generation.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 03:38 PM
Nov 2019

There are a lot of factors out there for issue with our younger generation. It is really simple to point the finger at pot, then an easy blame. Pot has not been legal that long in Ca. I would look more toward Colorado and Washington for information.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
123. I'm a high school parent in CA.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 03:44 PM
Nov 2019

I know what's going on in the local schools. To say that school teachers and staff are calling this a "crisis" is an understatement.

They are seeing significant social and mental health costs and a huge negative impact on academic success.

We ignore these red flags at our peril.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Jewls2

(218 posts)
125. Ok. And I think there are more factors and some have an agenda with their argument.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 03:47 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
128. The schools are saying it is THE FACTOR.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 03:50 PM
Nov 2019

These are people with nothing but the best intentions for their students. People who have dedicated themselves to bettering lives.

I listen when they tell us this is an extremely serious problem.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Jewls2

(218 posts)
131. You pretty much lost me with your argument.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 03:52 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

obamanut2012

(25,906 posts)
419. Link? Or else it's just Reefer Madness FUD
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 01:56 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

tenderfoot

(8,424 posts)
149. Marijuana isn't cheap
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 04:17 PM
Nov 2019

Where are these students getting the money to buy it?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
150. I dunno. And many of the sales here in CA are blackmarket.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 04:23 PM
Nov 2019

We were sold on the notion that dispensaries would be licensed and highly regulated.

The reality is illegal pot shops abound.

Teachers and school staff are saying there is a servere crisis in the schools. It is having a very negative and unprecedented impact on students.

It saddens me that people people find that "funny."

It isn't the least bit funny.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

tenderfoot

(8,424 posts)
151. Have there been any published articles concerning this?
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 04:27 PM
Nov 2019

Because I'm not about to get all up in arms based on what you're saying because it sounds like scare-mongering "reefer madness" bee ess.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
153. Not a good idea to ignore the teachers, councilors, and administrators who are sending up red flags
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 04:31 PM
Nov 2019

Nor is it wise to lampoon those who share their experiences in the real world.

The toll rampant pot use is having on students has zero to do with "reefer madness" and everything to do with reality.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

tenderfoot

(8,424 posts)
160. You offer no proof of anything you're going about.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 04:40 PM
Nov 2019

The rampant toll...

GTFO

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

Response to tenderfoot (Reply #160)

 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
177. They're not using pot because it's legal. It is NOT legal for those underage.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 05:02 PM
Nov 2019

So you might want to look for other issues at work here.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
180. Most of the dispensaries here are not legal either.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 05:05 PM
Nov 2019

That doesn't change the facts on the ground.

Pot is everywhere and kids hear the message that using is "all good."

We are ignoring the damage. That's not smart.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
183. How are the dispensaries "not legal?"
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 05:07 PM
Nov 2019

Besides the fact, kids don’t buy pot where there’s an age check.

When I was in Washington State, I found no shortage of LEGAL dispensaries, and IDs were checked at each one I visited.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
186. Shops open without permits. Some get shut down. Only to open again.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 05:09 PM
Nov 2019

This isn't a secret.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
188. This has nothing to do with the argument you're trying to make.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 05:11 PM
Nov 2019

If we have a generation in crisis, it’s not to do with pot use.

We’ll have to agree to disagree here.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Jewls2

(218 posts)
199. Right, I addressed this below. All the things our younger generation is experiencing and seeing for
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 05:20 PM
Nov 2019

their future, pot is not the villain.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

obamanut2012

(25,906 posts)
420. ALL of the dispensaries are legal
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 01:58 PM
Nov 2019

What you are saying is literally not factual. There is much less "street weed" available now. Your posts are laughable and RW Reefer Madness propo. I mean, for anyone who alerts, thsi is literally textbook Big Pharma/GOP anti-legalization propo. Literally.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
425. You are deeply misinformed.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 02:02 PM
Nov 2019

Here is the reality:


Nearly 3,000 illegal marijuana businesses found in California audit, dwarfing legal trade.

SACRAMENTO — California’s black market for cannabis is at least three times the size of its regulated weed industry, according to an audit made public Wednesday, the latest indication of the state’s continued struggle to tame a cannabis economy that has long operated in legal limbo.
The audit, conducted by the United Cannabis Business Assn., found approximately 2,835 unlicensed dispensaries and delivery services operating in California. By comparison, only 873 cannabis sellers in the state are licensed, according to the Bureau of Cannabis Control.

The figures are the latest sign of California’s rocky rollout of its legal marketplace, which promised better regulations and control beginning in 2018. Legitimate marijuana businesses have repeatedly criticized state leaders and law enforcement for failing to curb unlicensed dispensaries and delivery services, which sell cannabis at a much lower price by skirting state and municipal cannabis taxes.


https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-09-11/california-marijuana-black-market-dwarfs-legal-pot-industry

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Jewls2

(218 posts)
120. Five finger bags. Bong shops. It may have been illegal but it was a $60 ticket if caught,
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 03:36 PM
Nov 2019

under an ounce. Kids that wanted to smoke pot, smoked pot.

Visine worked the same then, as it does now.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
124. Kids could not take bong hits between classes. Vape pens have changed everything.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 03:45 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Jewls2

(218 posts)
127. Like hell they couldn't, lol. A joint works just as well.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 03:49 PM
Nov 2019

Are you really under the illusion that there was this rosy non existing past of difficulty getting high reaching way back to the 60's?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
130. Reeking of pot is a total bust.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 03:51 PM
Nov 2019

Taking a hit off a vape pen doesn't remotely compare.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Jewls2

(218 posts)
132. Omg, lol. You are funny.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 03:52 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
135. It is "funny" that I recognize smoking a doobie is a total bust vs hitting a vape pen?
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 03:58 PM
Nov 2019

Makes me think you are not serious.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

melman

(7,681 posts)
145. What's funny is
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 04:14 PM
Nov 2019

you are using lingo like "doobie" and "groovey" like you're Joe Friday on Dragnet.


And yet, in the next breath you say "hitting a vape pen" - I think this character needs more work.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
148. Classic deflection from the usuals suspects.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 04:17 PM
Nov 2019

Book 'em Dano.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

melman

(7,681 posts)
157. The usual suspects?
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 04:39 PM
Nov 2019

You've been here less than a week.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
164. Long enough to see where you are coming from. Believe me.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 04:44 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

melman

(7,681 posts)
166. Okay then let me ask you a question
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 04:46 PM
Nov 2019

What's the key word?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

tonedevil

(3,022 posts)
226. Long enough to show us...
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 07:17 PM
Nov 2019

where you are coming from.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
227. I hope so!
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 07:18 PM
Nov 2019

Life long liberal Democrat!!!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

tonedevil

(3,022 posts)
437. I think we might significantly differ...
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 02:34 PM
Nov 2019

in our definition of liberal, but good on you for registering Democrat.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
440. LOL. No, good on you. Welcome to the Big Tent. We need everybody we can get.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 02:40 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

tonedevil

(3,022 posts)
443. I've been a registered Democrat...
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 02:46 PM
Nov 2019

since 1974 when I voted for Jerry Brown to be Governor of California the first time. I have voted a straight Democratic ticket in every election since then. It has been a long time since I needed to be welcomed to the Big Tent. Maybe try dialing back the condescension by a couple of orders of magnitude.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
446. Pot, kettle, black.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 02:49 PM
Nov 2019

I'd suggest following your own advice. Seriously.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

tonedevil

(3,022 posts)
447. I'm sure you would. /nt
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 02:51 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

PhoenixDem

(581 posts)
311. What is the key word there? n/t
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 01:04 AM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

obamanut2012

(25,906 posts)
422. And "bust" and "hitting the vape"
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 02:00 PM
Nov 2019

No one says that. Except for 2019 Joe Fridays.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Dr Hobbitstein

(6,568 posts)
192. Wait, you have high school kids
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 05:14 PM
Nov 2019

and you say “doobie”, “groovy”, and “a total bust”?

I call shenanigans.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
228. It isn't friendly to call others liars.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 07:19 PM
Nov 2019

One kid, in 10th Grade.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ChubbyStar

(3,191 posts)
236. Gee wow one child in the 10th grade
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 07:59 PM
Nov 2019

You must be an expert!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
238. Nah. I'm listening to the teachers, counselors, and administers...
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 08:02 PM
Nov 2019

who deal with students every day.

I listen to people I know and trust when they tell us there is a huge problem.

I guess we are different that way?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ChubbyStar

(3,191 posts)
239. Nah I pay attention
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 08:08 PM
Nov 2019

But we are different.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Thekaspervote

(32,606 posts)
332. Just remember valley below..at the bottom of this pile is the need to bash Biden
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 04:40 AM
Nov 2019

There have been dozens of ridiculous threads, more ridiculous than this one about what Biden said or did, or didn’t say or didn’t do.

Change the title, bend the facts as to what he actually said and then you have the road rage race they want to engage in. Their preferred candidate is not the front runner and they want to tear the front runner down

Say what they want this is the truth of it

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

obamanut2012

(25,906 posts)
421. Vape THC carts smell like weed
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 01:59 PM
Nov 2019

You literally have no idea of what you are talking about.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Dr Hobbitstein

(6,568 posts)
187. I used to take bong hits between classes.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 05:10 PM
Nov 2019

A toilet paper tube with a dryer sheet on the end covers the smell nicely.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Jewls2

(218 posts)
190. Yes, toilet paper roll. Coke can. Lol.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 05:12 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
516. I believe it.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 08:32 PM
Nov 2019

Totally tubular.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
174. Yeah, it was very easy to find.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 04:59 PM
Nov 2019

I was a tennis team kid, not really into pot, but even I knew friends who got high.

And yes, very cheap in those days.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Dr Hobbitstein

(6,568 posts)
181. Generation in crisis. Yeah, the boomers.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 05:06 PM
Nov 2019

Quit your bullshit fear mongering.

MJ usage among teens is DOWN in places where it’s legal.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
182. You are dead wrong.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 05:06 PM
Nov 2019

You are ignoring reality.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Dr Hobbitstein

(6,568 posts)
185. No, I'm not.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 05:08 PM
Nov 2019

I read studies. You make stuff up. Totally different.
Take your fear mongering back to the 1980s, Nancy.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
191. I "make up" that my kid's school just had a school-wide parent meeting to address the problem? LOL.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 05:12 PM
Nov 2019

Sure pal.

Your accusations of "fear-mongering" are false and, frankly, insulting.

We will deal with the repercussions of what's happening with heavy pot use by young people for a very long time.

You are out of step with reality. What a shame.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

Response to The Valley Below (Reply #191)

 

Thekaspervote

(32,606 posts)
334. No, it isn't "made up"
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 04:45 AM
Nov 2019

In states where recreational marijuana is legal, problematic use increased among adults and teens
Date:
November 13, 2019
Source:
NYU Langone Health / NYU School of Medicine
Summary:
Problematic use of marijuana among adolescents and adults increased after legalization of recreational marijuana use, according to a new study from NYU Grossman School of Medicine and Columbia University Mailman School of Public Health.



https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/11/191113153049.htm

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Thekaspervote

(32,606 posts)
528. And this is all ya got ... to call people names when scientific links are presented
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 03:40 AM
Nov 2019

Proves my point...so continue bashing ... last time I looked you are not changing anyone’s minds about who to vote for. If anything it has the reverse effect

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

obamanut2012

(25,906 posts)
424. Link to this meeting?
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 02:01 PM
Nov 2019

The PTA will have a website talking about this meeting -- link?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
235. I thought it was funny too. Hence the quotes.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 07:58 PM
Nov 2019

Glad the humor wasn't lost on you.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Lordquinton

(7,886 posts)
294. Science doesn't support your opinion
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 12:00 AM
Nov 2019

Pot is the least of the kid's troubles in school these days. And yes I know a lot of people who were stoned throughout high school and they are just like everyone else I know.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
296. To the contrary. Marijuana consumption massively interrupts the ability for young people to learn.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 12:03 AM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Lordquinton

(7,886 posts)
300. in any case your whole argument is irrelevant
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 12:15 AM
Nov 2019

High School kids shouldn't have access to it, and no one is arguing any different.

Prohibition is harmful to society and has probably caused more school disruptions than legalization has. I suppose you aren't considering a child's parents getting locked up for a joint and how they are failing because of that, not because of a vape.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
303. They "shouldn't" but they do. And legalization has made things much worse in that regard...
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 12:26 AM
Nov 2019

according to those on the educational front lines.

Too much profit from getting kids hooked on drugs. We should be ashamed.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Lordquinton

(7,886 posts)
313. Can you post an article or something?
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 01:31 AM
Nov 2019

You keep saying "Those on the front lines" but not supporting it, and as we all know, the plural of anecdote isn't data.

Besides, what makes it available to kids is it being black market where you can get it on the street, having it legal makes it controlled. they are sold in dispensaries which are very strongly controlled. I don't know if you've ever been in one, but it's not like anyone can get in, they all have high security and keep things very controlled.

Oh hey, here's an article about it, it shows that in states that it's legal underage usage has dropped:

https://www.usnews.com/news/healthiest-communities/articles/2019-07-08/study-teen-use-of-marijuana-drops-in-states-where-it-is-legal

So basically you are holding a stance, one that I share, but arguing for the side that will make that issue much worse, instead of helping it.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
317. They told us here in CA that pot shops would be "controlled," but that's not the case.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 02:29 AM
Nov 2019

Illegal shops abound. Plus illegal delivery services that often sell to kids. The shit is everywhere. No control.

If you think the pot industry is well regulated here, you are kidding yourself. Legal shops play my one set of rules--including paying taxes and fees, and regulating who makes purchases--but illegal suppliers are eating their lunch. Undercutting prices by evading taxes and fees, and sometimes selling to minors.

It is a mess.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Lordquinton

(7,886 posts)
340. Hey, so do you have a source for all that?
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 04:56 AM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

obamanut2012

(25,906 posts)
426. this is literally not true -- link to prove it is?
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 02:03 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
429. I just posted a link. I'll do it again.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 02:05 PM
Nov 2019

Then you can apologize anytime, OK? Because you are dead-wrong.

Nearly 3,000 illegal marijuana businesses found in California audit, dwarfing legal trade

SACRAMENTO — California’s black market for cannabis is at least three times the size of its regulated weed industry, according to an audit made public Wednesday, the latest indication of the state’s continued struggle to tame a cannabis economy that has long operated in legal limbo.
The audit, conducted by the United Cannabis Business Assn., found approximately 2,835 unlicensed dispensaries and delivery services operating in California. By comparison, only 873 cannabis sellers in the state are licensed, according to the Bureau of Cannabis Control.

The figures are the latest sign of California’s rocky rollout of its legal marketplace, which promised better regulations and control beginning in 2018. Legitimate marijuana businesses have repeatedly criticized state leaders and law enforcement for failing to curb unlicensed dispensaries and delivery services, which sell cannabis at a much lower price by skirting state and municipal cannabis taxes.


https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-09-11/california-marijuana-black-market-dwarfs-legal-pot-industry

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Lordquinton

(7,886 posts)
493. So people sell illegally
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 07:20 PM
Nov 2019

that doesn't change literally anything about the conversation.

Can you post anything supporting your original point?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

stopdiggin

(11,090 posts)
314. this IS "Reefer Madness"
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 01:35 AM
Nov 2019

I stayed out of it until this:

"Too much profit from getting kids hooked on drugs."

And no doubt the pusher man is handing out "free samples" on the schoolyard to snare the little kiddies. Sorry .. this 1950s argument is just getting silly. Calling BS.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
315. You don't think there is big money being made from selling dope to high school kids?
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 02:21 AM
Nov 2019

I'm the one calling BS on that mendacity.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Lordquinton

(7,886 posts)
316. No, there isn't
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 02:24 AM
Nov 2019

Except on the black market, which you want to preserve.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
318. Nah. The black market has exploded under "legalization."
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 02:31 AM
Nov 2019

The legit shops are screaming bloody murder.

As I said, it is a mess.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
514. It seems like illegal pot shops are hard to distinguish from licensed ones. Same with delivery.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 08:30 PM
Nov 2019

They all show up on apps like Weedmaps w/o differentiation.

Plus advertising is everywhere. Enforcement of any marijuana laws is nil.

And the kids are told by proponents that marijuana has nothing but upsides.

Why wouldn't use among teens go up in these circumstances?

It is causing a lot of harm.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LuckyCharms

(17,286 posts)
354. I smoked a ton of pot in high school, and I turned out fine.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 07:36 AM
Nov 2019

I was the captain of the varsity crack team.

I was named the Vallavic Torian of my class.

I wrote the lyrics for the hugely popular (at the time) song "Bang a Gong".

The Rolling Stones invited me on stage during a live concert to play the drums when Ringo hurt his hand mid-performance and had to be rushed to the ER.

I ultimately became the Governor of a small state in the Yukon.

Not bad for a "stoner".

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

obamanut2012

(25,906 posts)
428. Did you really write the lyrics?!
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 02:04 PM
Nov 2019

So cool.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

obamanut2012

(25,906 posts)
416. God, just stop with using your opinions and RW Reefer Madness tropes as "facts"
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 01:53 PM
Nov 2019

None are true.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Celerity

(42,645 posts)
501. groovey???????
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 07:58 PM
Nov 2019

Pro tip, it is not 1967.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
504. Another pro tip: When a phrase is in "quotes" it is usually for a reason.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 08:12 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
512. You laughed. Mission accomplished.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 08:21 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

USALiberal

(10,877 posts)
536. LOL, you are living in the 70s! Nt
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 09:40 AM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
539. I'm not.
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 12:18 PM
Nov 2019

I'm living in 2019 and seeing the vaping epidemic wreaking havoc among our youth.

Don't bury your head in the sand.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Buzz cook

(2,470 posts)
84. Just Old Joe covering his ass
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 01:52 PM
Nov 2019

His campaign is based on not offending anyone and that requires that he not take a strong position on anything.

My guess is that if elected he will follow Obama's lead on Marijuana.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Baked Potato

(7,733 posts)
105. He said he won't mess with the States
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 02:42 PM
Nov 2019

That’s a good start. Kids shouldn’t drink or smoke weed. That’s a parenting issue.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

riversedge

(69,713 posts)
109. good lord. crap on that comment.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 02:51 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

floppyboo

(2,461 posts)
113. Pot is a gateway drug if you have to buy it illegally. Period.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 03:08 PM
Nov 2019

Hey man, i've also got this you might like.
And that's how it goes.
And that's the obvious factual truth.

Legalize it!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

lapucelle

(18,037 posts)
115. Biden's point of view aligns with the CDC's.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 03:12 PM
Nov 2019

The truth of the matter is, there’s not nearly been enough evidence that has been acquired as to whether or not it is a gateway drug,” the 2020 presidential candidate claimed at a town hall meeting in Las Vegas. “It’s a debate, and I want a lot more before I legalize it nationally. I want to make sure we know a lot more about the science behind it.”

*******************************************************************************************

Does marijuana use lead to other drug use?

The majority of people who use marijuana do not go on to use other, “harder” substances. More research is needed to understand if marijuana is a “gateway drug” – a drug that is thought to lead to the use of more dangerous drugs (such as cocaine or heroin).

https://www.cdc.gov/marijuana/faqs/does-marijuana-lead-to-other-drugs.html

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

aikoaiko

(34,127 posts)
118. If he followed his statement with, .."and we should decriminalize cannabis until we know",
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 03:31 PM
Nov 2019

then I'd respect his position.

But there has been a lot of research on cannabis and its just not as dangerous as legal alcohol.

Trauma is the gateway to abusive use of drugs, not weed itself.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

lapucelle

(18,037 posts)
196. You should publish your research and forward the findings to the CDC and Biden campaign. N/T
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 05:18 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
273. There have been many studies proving Gateway Drug is a myth
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 10:29 PM
Nov 2019

According to many studies, weed seems more like a filter that keep people away from stronger drugs than a stepping stone into life-destroying addiction.

As the 2016 election approaches, marijuana legalization is in the air once again, with ballot initiatives likely to succeed in at least five states, including California. As usual, politicians—including some presidential candidates, notably Carly Fiorina—are trying to turn back the tide by spreading fear that weed is a gateway to more dangerous drugs. But research increasingly shows not only that the "gateway" theory is incorrect, but that weed may actually help people with addictions stop taking other drugs, rather than start.

On the surface, the gateway idea seems reasonable enough. After all, there are almost no heroin users who didn't start their illegal drug use with marijuana, and marijuana smokers are 104 times more likely to use cocaine than those haven't tried weed.

Yet as scientists constantly remind us, correlation isn't the same thing as causation. For example, the number of people killed annually by dogs correlates almost perfectly with the growth in online revenue on Black Friday. And the rise in autism diagnoses is strongly correlated with the growth in sales of organic food. It's technically possible that some third factor causes both of these apparently haphazard connections. However, it's completely implausible that these connections are causal, and odds are that the links are due to random chance.

In terms of marijuana's specific correlation with other drug use, slightly less than half of Americans over 12 have tried marijuana, while less than 15 percent have taken cocaine and less than 2 percent used heroin, according to the latest National Household Survey on Drug Use and Health. Even smaller portions go on to become addicted to those drugs: Typically, only 10 to 20 percent of those who try alcohol and other drugs get hooked.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vice.com/amp/en_us/article/9bgn7a/why-marijuana-is-not-a-gateway-drug-1013

I'm worried about comments from Biden because myths like that has led to boneheaded drug policy and I worry about those using cannabis to stay off hard drugs being harmed from policies that come from myths.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

lapucelle

(18,037 posts)
343. You should notifify the CDC of the many studies that "prove that Gateway Drug is a myth". N/T
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 06:15 AM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
345. CDC certainly doesn't say that it does
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 06:25 AM
Nov 2019

It says "may" be a link. It was government that made marijuana a schedule I drug so perhaps they are behind the times?


----

These findings are consistent with the idea of marijuana as a "gateway drug." However, the majority of people who use marijuana do not go on to use other, "harder" substances. Also, cross-sensitization is not unique to marijuana. Alcohol and nicotine also prime the brain for a heightened response to other drugs52 and are, like marijuana, also typically used before a person progresses to other, more harmful substances.

It is important to note that other factors besides biological mechanisms, such as a person’s social environment, are also critical in a person’s risk for drug use. An alternative to the gateway-drug hypothesis is that people who are more vulnerable to drug-taking are simply more likely to start with readily available substances such as marijuana, tobacco, or alcohol, and their subsequent social interactions with others who use drugs increases their chances of trying other drugs. Further research is needed to explore this question.

https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/marijuana/marijuana-gateway-drug

Research simply does not support the theory that
marijuana is a “gateway” drug – that is, one whose use
results in an increased likelihood of using “more
serious” drugs such as cocaine and heroin. However,
this flawed gateway effect is one of the principal
reasons cited in defense of laws prohibiting the use or
possession of marijuana.
*cough* Joe Biden *cough*
Research shows that marijuana could more
accurately be described as a “terminus” drug
because the vast majority of people who use
marijuana do not go on to use other illicit drugs.1,2
Marijuana has never been proven to have an actual
“gateway effect.”3 However, a more critical interpretation
of this and further research suggests that those who use
drugs may instead have an underlying propensity to do
so that is not specific to any one drug.4,5,6
Significant amounts of research as well as measures
implemented in other countries suggest that there are
far more effective and less harmful strategies for
decreasing youth use of marijuana and reducing the
potential harms of other illicit drug use than using the
“gateway” myth as a scare tactic. New evidence
suggests that marijuana can even serve as an “exit
drug,” helping people to reduce or eliminate their use
of more harmful drugs such as opiates or alcohol by
easing withdrawal symptoms.


https://www.drugpolicy.org/sites/default/files/DebunkingGatewayMyth_NY_0.pdf

Marijuana continues to be the most commonly used illicit drug according to the 2012 National Survey on Drug Use and Health (NSDUH) report. It is also the third most popular recreational drug in the United States, behind alcohol and tobacco. Based on the latest estimates, upwards of 24 million people have used marijuana, with 14 million using it regularly, yet misinformation about marijuana abounds.

Marijuana is not a gateway drug. People who have tried marijuana may eventually go on to try harder drugs in search of a stronger high, and experimentation may lead them down a dangerous path toward addiction. However, the science shows overwhelmingly that for most people marijuana is not a gateway drug.

Many people mistakenly believe that marijuana use precedes rather than follows initiation of other illicit drug use. In fact, most drug use begins with alcohol and nicotine before marijuana, making nicotine and alcohol the two most common drugs of abuse. Evidence indicates marijuana is usually not the first substance abused before more dangerous illicit drug experimentation.

A study published in the peer-reviewed Journal of School Health has concluded that the theory of a gateway drug is not associated with marijuana, but rather one of the most damaging and socially accepted drugs in the world, alcohol. The findings from this investigation support that alcohol should receive primary attention in abuse prevention programming, since the use of other substances could be impacted by delaying or preventing alcohol use.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/ending-addiction-good/201408/marijuana-the-gateway-drug-myth

Alcohol was my first drug followed by nicotine.

Marijuana is not, repeat, a Gateway drug

Most of the research linking marijuana to harder drug use comes from the correlation between the two. However, as any junior scientist can tell you, correlation does not mean causation.

Correlation is a first step. A correlation can be positive or negative; it can be weak or strong. And it never means a cause unless a rational reason for causality is found.

The brain disease model, which describes changes in the brain during the progression from drug use to addiction, currently gets a lot of attention as a potential causal link of the gateway theory. For example, in a 2014 article, neuroscientist Dr Jodi Gilman reported that even a little marijuana use was associated with "exposure-dependent alterations of the neural matrix of core reward systems" in the brains of young marijuana users. The reasoning goes that this would predispose them to use other drugs.

But other researchers were quick to point out the flaws of the Gilman study, such as a lack of careful controls for alcohol and other drug use by those whose brains were studied. Nonetheless, Dr Gilman's research continues to be cited in the news media, while its critics are ignored.

In another study supporting the gateway theory, the authors admit to limitations in their study: that they excluded younger cocaine users from the analysis, as well as older cocaine users who had never used marijuana. This means that those cases that might provide evidence of no gateway effect were left out of the analysis.

https://www.newsweek.com/marijuana-not-gateway-drug-325358

I will post more.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

lapucelle

(18,037 posts)
467. The CDC says "more research is needed to understand if marijuana
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 04:29 PM
Nov 2019

is a gateway drug.”

On matters of medical science and addiction disease, I tend to trust the CDC on whether or not we need further research.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Voltaire2

(12,618 posts)
482. Is anyone arguing against more actual research?
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 05:47 PM
Nov 2019

No. But meanwhile hows about we stop putting poor people in prison for pot?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

lapucelle

(18,037 posts)
522. ...
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 10:06 PM
Nov 2019
There have been many studies proving Gateway Drug is a myth

According to many studies, weed seems more like a filter that keep people away from stronger drugs than a stepping stone into life-destroying addiction.

snip=================================================================================

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/9bgn7a/why-marijuana-is-not-a-gateway-drug-1013

https://upload.democraticunderground.com/1287348505#post273

Unless, of course, those who assert that "many studies prove that Gateway Drug is a myth" still want further study.

Which, of course, would mean that their assertion is not truly "proven".

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Jewls2

(218 posts)
122. Legalized in so many states, it should not affect someones ability to get some minimum wage job.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 03:40 PM
Nov 2019

That is why this is an important issue that Joe needs to address.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
126. Maybe a minimum wage if the best life prospect a kid will ever have...
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 03:47 PM
Nov 2019

if they start using heavily in high school.

That's the problem.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Jewls2

(218 posts)
129. When you make comments like this, I know you are not sitting from a position of facts.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 03:51 PM
Nov 2019

But emotional reaction to pot, for whatever reason. If I am not hearing an even stronger outcry with alcohol and the detrimental, long term damage to both kids and adults affecting so many loved ones and their future, then it is clear your perspective on pot is skewed.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
133. Not a bit. Students are failing out of school and/or doing badly in classes due to pot usage.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 03:56 PM
Nov 2019

Those are the facts.

They are also having unprecedented levels of mental and emotional health issues that are negatively impacting their success.

My understanding of what's going on is spot on. I listen to the people on the front lines of this crisis.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

tonedevil

(3,022 posts)
141. Statewide...
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 04:11 PM
Nov 2019

in California how many students have dropped out of school as a direct result of a marijuana habit? At what age did they begin to use marijuana? How much marijuana do they use? What are the ways they use marijuana, smoking, vaping, edibles, other? Are there any other possible drivers?
I ask this because I don't believe you have any information outside of where your children go to school and that information as you relate it here has yet to convince me and it seems, quite a few others.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
152. We all see the world through our own experiences.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 04:28 PM
Nov 2019

My kid is in a very typical LAUSD high school. I know the teachers and administrators. They are awesome liberal-minded people. These are not reactionaries or people with axes-to-grind.

They are sending up red-flags. Emphatically so. And it is not an isolated case of one "problem" school, but is the same problem as seen in the rest of the district.

We can ignore real problems as they emerge. Not a good idea in my estimation.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

tonedevil

(3,022 posts)
167. You can't actually quantify the problem...
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 04:50 PM
Nov 2019

and the only thing you have to prove marijuana is the sole or even dominant problem is a strongly held opinion. I'm not saying that we should ignore a problem I just don't think you have shown enough evidence to make the case there is a problem or that marijuana is the root of it.
I'm not willing to go back to the days of marijuana use being criminalized. People have spent, are spending, decades in prison for simple possession. No laws to allow recreational marijuana use have ever included minors. In California the law prohibits recreational use by persons under 21. I presume that covers the high school students in question. It is already prohibited by law for the population you speak of it seems a reasonable person would want nothing more than better enforcement of the existing laws.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
171. No. I have people in the schools who are saying they have never experienced problems on this scale..
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 04:55 PM
Nov 2019

before.

So when people I trust and admire tell me (and the entire community of parents) that they are witnessing a huge problem across the district with mental and emotional health problems and failing academics, I listen.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

tonedevil

(3,022 posts)
189. So if marijuana use...
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 05:11 PM
Nov 2019

is the main problem for these struggling students what action do you think is warranted beyond stronger enforcement of existing law?

I want to make it clear I don't agree with your premise, but I think the next question is more important.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
194. I don't have all the answers here. I guess the most important thing is to be real...
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 05:17 PM
Nov 2019

with young people about the negative impacts of marijuana use has on young minds. That's not a message that penetrating now.

That's not "reefer madness"--and such talk is part of the problem. If adults can't deal with reality our children will suffer.

The people who could make a difference are equating genuine concerns with "trolling."

That's a shame.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
257. Calling it a gateway drug is not being real
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 09:37 PM
Nov 2019

That is just peddling more horseshit for children.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
260. Telling them that smoking marijuana is benign...
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 09:40 PM
Nov 2019

is what's horseshit for the children.

We should be honest with our young people.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
263. Once and for All, Marijuana Is Not a Gateway Drug
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 09:44 PM
Nov 2019

According to many studies, weed seems more like a filter that keep people away from stronger drugs than a stepping stone into life-destroying addiction.

As the 2016 election approaches, marijuana legalization is in the air once again, with ballot initiatives likely to succeed in at least five states, including California. As usual, politicians—including some presidential candidates, notably Carly Fiorina—are trying to turn back the tide by spreading fear that weed is a gateway to more dangerous drugs. But research increasingly shows not only that the "gateway" theory is incorrect, but that weed may actually help people with addictions stop taking other drugs, rather than start.

On the surface, the gateway idea seems reasonable enough. After all, there are almost no heroin users who didn't start their illegal drug use with marijuana, and marijuana smokers are 104 times more likely to use cocaine than those haven't tried weed.

Yet as scientists constantly remind us, correlation isn't the same thing as causation. For example, the number of people killed annually by dogs correlates almost perfectly with the growth in online revenue on Black Friday. And the rise in autism diagnoses is strongly correlated with the growth in sales of organic food. It's technically possible that some third factor causes both of these apparently haphazard connections. However, it's completely implausible that these connections are causal, and odds are that the links are due to random chance.

In terms of marijuana's specific correlation with other drug use, slightly less than half of Americans over 12 have tried marijuana, while less than 15 percent have taken cocaine and less than 2 percent used heroin, according to the latest National Household Survey on Drug Use and Health. Even smaller portions go on to become addicted to those drugs: Typically, only 10 to 20 percent of those who try alcohol and other drugs get hooked.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vice.com/amp/en_us/article/9bgn7a/why-marijuana-is-not-a-gateway-drug-1013

Do you need more links proving Gateway Drug is one of the oldest myths. Fear mongering leads people to realize it is benign and it really is compared to the legal drug alcohol.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Jewls2

(218 posts)
197. There is a hopelessness with our kids that has nothing to do with pot. I do not know one under 25
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 05:18 PM
Nov 2019

who talks about having kids. Just yesterday, I listened to a pod conversation with young adults saying no to kids. There are so many factors with our youth today that no generation has been raised on and are experiencing and the fear for their future. Yet, with all the crisis's our youth face, with the corruption they see, with the political mess they are being raised with, with the break up and dysfunction of family, with the greater divide between wealth and poor and loss of the middle class, you raise the red flag and hail the hysteria of the legalization of pot. Gotta say, sounds short sighted and I have a tough time believing educated progressives of Calif are on board with the sky is falling, pot argument.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
203. I'm sorry you are having problems believing progressives who are sending up red flags.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 05:27 PM
Nov 2019

My kids school arguably has the most progressive program for student in our massive district. These teachers and councilors have no reason to lie about what they are seeing.

They are sending up legitimate red-flags.

Calling this "hysteria" is supremely unwise.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Jewls2

(218 posts)
205. Not addressing underling factors, many I laid out is beyond harmful and will not result in solutions
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 05:28 PM
Nov 2019

Pot is not the issue.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
206. I disagree and think you are making excuses. Sorry.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 05:31 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Jewls2

(218 posts)
210. Excuses? You are all up in arms for our youth and have boiled it down to the easy remedy of pot.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 05:34 PM
Nov 2019

As I said, I am almost exclusively around the 20 somethings and in all that they are experiencing, seeing and learning is ignored, as excuses. That is sad. But, whatever. One small cog in the wheel.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
212. LOL. False characterizations don't help your point.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 05:38 PM
Nov 2019

Adolescents will always have issues and will need support. Who is saying otherwise?

But drug-abuse (which includes heavy pot smoking) adds a serious additional burden for young people to carry.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Jewls2

(218 posts)
214. Very dismissive of youth experience.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 05:40 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
216. Not a bit.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 05:43 PM
Nov 2019

I see the problem young people are having due to heavy pot consumption and I don't dismiss that reality one bit.

Too bad you are so dismissive. You are way behind the curve is acknowledging a real problem .

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Voltaire2

(12,618 posts)
351. Well then surely you can document
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 07:19 AM
Nov 2019

the huge cost of teen pot smoking. Let’s see the numbers.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Voltaire2

(12,618 posts)
219. Yeah let's help them out by giving them a criminal record.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 06:10 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
220. False choices. Amazing how some people only think in extremes.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 06:18 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Voltaire2

(12,618 posts)
221. Uh over 600,000 possession arrests
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 06:36 PM
Nov 2019

last year, disproportionately affecting people of color. As long as marijuana is illegal to possess we will continue to ‘help’ people who use pot by giving them criminal records.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
222. So? You think there are only two choices here?
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 06:40 PM
Nov 2019

And if we do legalize pot, don't we have a duty to get real with those who are most vulnerable?

Those who blow off real problems as "refer madness" are way behind the curve.

We are facing massive social costs due to the exponential use of pot by young people.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Voltaire2

(12,618 posts)
224. With respect to possession arrests yes.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 06:45 PM
Nov 2019

It is a binary choice. Possession is either an arrestable offense or it isn’t.

Biden does not support legalization. At the federal level possession can get you a year in jail.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

obamanut2012

(25,906 posts)
430. Proof? Link? Facts? Yeah, there are none
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 02:06 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
434. "Despite some contentious discussions regarding the addictiveness of marijuana,...
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 02:10 PM
Nov 2019

the evidence clearly indicates that long-term marijuana use can lead to addiction. Indeed, approximately 9% of those who experiment with marijuana will become addicted3 (according to the criteria for dependence in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, 4th edition [DSM-IV]). The number goes up to about 1 in 6 among those who start using marijuana as teenagers and to 25 to 50% among those who smoke marijuana daily.4 According to the 2012 National Survey on Drug Use and Health, an estimated 2.7 million people 12 years of age and older met the DSM-IV criteria for dependence on marijuana, and 5.1 million people met the criteria for dependence on any illicit drug1 (8.6 million met the criteria for dependence on alcohol1). There is also recognition of a bona fide cannabis withdrawal syndrome5 (with symptoms that include irritability, sleeping difficulties, dysphoria, craving, and anxiety), which makes cessation difficult and contributes to relapse."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4827335/

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pangaia

(24,324 posts)
134. Oh, jeeze !!!!!!!!
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 03:57 PM
Nov 2019


Nothing else I can say..
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

flying_wahini

(6,522 posts)
136. Another reason to lose.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 04:05 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

mike_c

(36,214 posts)
154. This is horse poop.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 04:36 PM
Nov 2019

It's misinformed, it's a clear instance of the Dunning-Kruger effect, and it directly contradicts the experience of millions of Americans. It perpetuates the disasterous war on drugs that primarily affects the most vulnerable American communities. It feeds the prison-industrial complex and contributes to mass incarceration.

I live in northern California, in the middle of the emerald triangle. Biden's attitude would be laughable if it didn't damage so many people's lives. The war on drugs is a war on Americans.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

JudyM

(29,122 posts)
271. It's not just ill-informed. It'll potentially limit important opportunities for treament.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 10:11 PM
Nov 2019

If Joe wants to be viewed as knowledgeable, he needs to get up to speed on this.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Hassin Bin Sober

(26,272 posts)
292. Wait! Mike C?
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 11:51 PM
Nov 2019

Haven’t seen you around in a while! Nice to see you!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

mike_c

(36,214 posts)
301. Howdy. Good to see you too.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 12:15 AM
Nov 2019


I had to take a break after 2016. I was just too damned angry to be civil.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

tirebiter

(2,520 posts)
165. The issue remains choice
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 04:45 PM
Nov 2019

>“states should be able to make a judgement to legalize marijuana.” “I think that’s OK,” he said.

I preferred the Med marijuana time. We could get higher dosage. Currently it provides jobs for my kids at all levels of production and sales. This issue is settled.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
247. It's not though. The fact that's still considered a schedule 1 drug makes this meaningless.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 08:42 PM
Nov 2019

It has to be removed & decriminalized. Period.

If alcohol and tobacco aren't considered dangerous enough to be classified as a controlled substance than cannabis shouldn't be either.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

randr

(12,408 posts)
178. From a 72 year old DUer
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 05:03 PM
Nov 2019

That is why his age matters. He is a fossil who has not learned a thing over the past decade

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Jewls2

(218 posts)
202. I think it matters also. Look, we have Trump going into hospital probably because of heart.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 05:26 PM
Nov 2019

We have another up in the polls after an heart attack and heart damage, asking to be in an highly stressing position at a crucial time in our history.

I am old. Age matters. I know.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

treestar

(82,383 posts)
245. a younger person could have similar opinions
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 08:36 PM
Nov 2019

on marijuana.

It is odd that people assume that young voters are so focused on legalizing pot.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
274. Legalization turns out non-voters
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 10:33 PM
Nov 2019

Colorado, Washington, Oregon, Michigan got Democrats elected with progressive ballot issues.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Doreen

(11,686 posts)
204. How about the addictive opioid drugs?
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 05:27 PM
Nov 2019

We have all had some type of opioid before we were old enough to be aware of cannabis. Take someone who has been addicted to opioids off and they might find something that gives the same results. I think some of the legal pharmacutical drugs are the gateway drugs.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

JudyM

(29,122 posts)
270. Opioids are their own gateway drug, cause addiction and death. Cannabis gets people off opioids.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 10:07 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

budkin

(6,688 posts)
208. More proof of Biden being out of touch
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 05:33 PM
Nov 2019

Unbelievable.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

duforsure

(11,882 posts)
356. Agree!
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 07:37 AM
Nov 2019

He's lost in the past on this , and the majority of the American people are for legalized MJ, especially for Medical, so this statement will only lose him votes, and should. He should speak to others who support full legalization . In the primaries I won't support him , and know too many people that have used without going on to heavy drugs, and if he really looks into it , he will maybe change his position, but he's on the losing side on this issue. Has the alcohol industry or prisons for profit industry given him funds for his campaign? Does he realize there are thousands of studies proving the huge benefits of medical use? The government right now supplies people every month for their medical conditions. He can look into studies done at UCLA where a lung specialist Dr. Donald Tashkin did a government backed long term study and proved MJ slightly lowered cancer. Big pharma could also be in politicians pockets . His gateway drug position isn't backed by evidence. He's out of touch on this surprisingly.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Newest Reality

(12,712 posts)
209. Oh gosh...
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 05:33 PM
Nov 2019

Can we please be allowed to recover from decades of hysterical propaganda that had a basis in racist and corporate interests?

Really. Gateway is an invention to vilify a substance, generally speaking. There are far more factors involved in a person's involvement and progression into heavy drugs and addiction. I mean, Big Phrama can be called an ultimate, institutionalized gateway if you want to go down that route.

And, as many ask, how is criminalization any kind of solution, anyway? So, a culture vilifies a substance and then ruins your entire life and affects your family, etc., in a profoundly disruptive and destructive way, "for your own good?" That's really regressive thinking and Mr. Biden should get a handle on where we are at now. We are still paying the costs of a drug war that is on the people more than it is on the substances and that's backwards and hazardous to our society.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

saidsimplesimon

(7,888 posts)
217. Mr. Biden, I remember when.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 06:05 PM
Nov 2019

You failed to stand up for Anita Hill.

Don't lecture me on the merits of medical marijuana. Ya don't want me to go biblical on ya.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Thekaspervote

(32,606 posts)
335. More let's bash Biden... I don't need to stick to the subject... just get Biden
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 04:50 AM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

jmowreader

(50,447 posts)
223. Let's talk about gateway drugs
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 06:44 PM
Nov 2019

The most significant gateway drug is nicotine, which is legal.

Think about it! Recall all the drug users in your life. Did any of them NOT start their drug careers by smoking cigarettes?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Dr Hobbitstein

(6,568 posts)
261. I smoked pot before cigarettes.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 09:41 PM
Nov 2019

My parents smoked cigarettes, so if I used cogs to cover up my pot consumption.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

jayschool2013

(2,309 posts)
232. And with that
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 07:30 PM
Nov 2019

he becomes the front-runner in the 1948 election.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Sapient Donkey

(1,568 posts)
241. lol... Well, we all have flaws.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 08:19 PM
Nov 2019

This seems to be mostly generational and I think it's safe to say his opinion on this isn't gonna be one that sticks around for long. Like I don't smoke pot or do any drugs, but am 100% for legalization of it. That being said, not every candidate will see everything the way I see things. What's important to me is that if he becomes president I don't think he would get in the way of its legalization. I would also wonder if it would be possible to change his mind on it.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

MustLoveBeagles

(11,563 posts)
272. A sensible post. Thank you.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 10:29 PM
Nov 2019


I don't agree with him on this but it doesn't change my support of him.

What's important to me is that if he becomes president I don't think he would get in the way of its legalization.

This^

I would also wonder if it would be possible to change his mind on it.

I think so. I don't think he's as stuck in the past as many seem to think.



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

okieinpain

(9,397 posts)
246. I like joe biden
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 08:40 PM
Nov 2019

I would vote for joe Biden. Having said that but joe Biden needs to go home.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Thekaspervote

(32,606 posts)
336. A lot of us would warren to go home!!
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 04:51 AM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
250. Everyone look at the science
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 09:23 PM
Nov 2019

Cannabis is not a gateway drug.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Maven

(10,533 posts)
251. Dated thinking.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 09:29 PM
Nov 2019

Which can be said about a number of his positions.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

progressoid

(49,825 posts)
266. I know someone who injected two marijuanas and now she's homeless and she lost a foot.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 09:56 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

SamKnause

(13,037 posts)
275. Thanks, I needed that.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 10:46 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

Response to progressoid (Reply #266)

 

tonedevil

(3,022 posts)
337. Becky died from snorting marijuana...
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 04:51 AM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Voltaire2

(12,618 posts)
352. I found her foot. Where should I send it?
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 07:25 AM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

progressoid

(49,825 posts)
358. I think there's a depository for that.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 08:51 AM
Nov 2019

Some sort of locker...


A foot locker.



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Voltaire2

(12,618 posts)
372. Even if it contaminated with tolio?
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 11:05 AM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

progressoid

(49,825 posts)
385. Ironically, you can get relief from tolio from the marijuanas.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 12:14 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Voltaire2

(12,618 posts)
483. I tried to mainline it into my ear.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 05:49 PM
Nov 2019

It didn't work. I think I have too much heroin in there.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

samnsara

(17,570 posts)
277. Ill invite him to our little ol ladies pot n cookies tea....
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 10:55 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

dflprincess

(28,057 posts)
278. That is just embarrassing.
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 10:55 PM
Nov 2019

Not to mention dated and out of touch.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,110 posts)
289. Where are Joe's advisors on this when he needs them?!
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 11:41 PM
Nov 2019

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Laffy Kat

(16,354 posts)
307. Hopefully, he won't act on that.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 12:36 AM
Nov 2019

It doesn't really bother me that much. In so many ways, he's sort of like a stereotypical grandfather. I could overlook it and will overlook it if he is the nominee. Both my adult children are opposed to weed legalization for the same reason as Biden, while I voted for the legalization here in Colorado. Go figure.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

applegrove

(118,012 posts)
310. Marijuana is really bad for some youths. It should be very hard for teens
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 01:00 AM
Nov 2019

Last edited Mon Nov 18, 2019, 04:43 PM - Edit history (1)

to get it. We have legal cannabis in canada. The data is not all in. But illegal buying has not gone down that much.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Thekaspervote

(32,606 posts)
338. Thank you for your post ... coming from someone who has a better perspective on the issue
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 04:53 AM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
348. It was really easy for me to get as a youth -- easier than alcohol
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 06:56 AM
Nov 2019

because I would have to find an adult to go down to the store and buy booze while a pot dealer may not mind selling to a teenager. It was also illegal in all 50 states before medical marijuana was legalized in a single state.

I'd rather live in Canada than Arizona where a pot seed is a felony. Cannabis users in Canada should consider themselves lucky.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

obamanut2012

(25,906 posts)
432. States with legalized cannabis show minors using cannabis has dropped
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 02:09 PM
Nov 2019

Links up thread.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

Response to aikoaiko (Original post)

Response to Thekaspervote (Reply #341)

 

Thekaspervote

(32,606 posts)
531. Out today Biden's official stance on weed...but, I suppose you'll find something wrong with that too
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 03:48 AM
Nov 2019

There is a lot of talk out there on where I stand when it comes to our marijuana laws. Here are the facts:
View image on Twitter


/photo/1
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

Response to Thekaspervote (Reply #531)

 

A HERETIC I AM

(24,320 posts)
331. Well, THAT was a fun read!
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 04:37 AM
Nov 2019

After reading through a significant portion of this train wreck, I began to hear the posts of one particular individual in the voice of this guy;


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Autumn

(44,748 posts)
389. I feel like I fell back in time.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 12:40 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Celerity

(42,645 posts)
548. love the sample of this song on that jam
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 08:25 PM
Nov 2019


Pitbull FTW!!!



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

4bucksagallon

(975 posts)
344. Pot kept me sane when I got back from Vietnam.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 06:23 AM
Nov 2019

Dreamless sleep was what I needed more than anything and it filled the bill.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

DesertRat

(27,995 posts)
487. Biden was born in 1942, pre-Boomer years
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 06:36 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Voltaire2

(12,618 posts)
489. close enough, but you have a point.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 06:55 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
497. Well he sure talks like the stereotypical Boomer
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 07:43 PM
Nov 2019

Which explains the article below. And also which this gateway stuff will definitely not help.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/nov/15/joe-biden-supporters-millennials-youth-vote

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

DesertRat

(27,995 posts)
507. I'm a Boomer and most of my peers use weed
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 08:15 PM
Nov 2019

in one form or another.

The only weed gateway I acknowledge is to snacking.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
509. Also laughing a lot
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 08:19 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

duforsure

(11,882 posts)
360. He says he's not sure?
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 09:07 AM
Nov 2019

Well he's wrong on this, and another costly mistake. He should be talking about the opioid crisis, and how republican members of Congress were paid to get some of big pharma's dangerously addictive products they lied about in their getting approved on, passed with republicans helping, and killed thousands of people. Doctors were bribed into pushing these drugs , dangerously addictive drugs, which led to their severe addictions, and many deaths. That should be what he pushes, not a decades old debunked notion the majority of the American people know is very false and misleading. If he isn't sure, it makes him look out of touch with this issue, and shows he's not adequately doing his homework on this.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

RhodeIslandOne

(5,042 posts)
362. Ugh
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 09:16 AM
Nov 2019

Why is he like this?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

DesertRat

(27,995 posts)
373. C'mon man! If you're an addict, even NyQuil is a gateway drug
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 11:26 AM
Nov 2019

If you’re not an addict, weed is nothing to worry about.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
375. "If Biden's appeal is supposed to be that he's a centrist, he should adopt centrist positions..."
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 11:42 AM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
378. Why adopt new positions when you can double-down on shitty old positions?
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 11:48 AM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

get the red out

(13,459 posts)
381. Personally
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 11:54 AM
Nov 2019

I think this is BS. There are probably a lot more "gateway circumstances" like poverty, abuse abandonment etc than any particular "gateway drug".

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

EmInColorado

(31 posts)
382. Pass it this way Joe to us Bernie supportes please!
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 12:02 PM
Nov 2019


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

still_one

(91,945 posts)
383. I don't give a f**k what people take, but the fact is cannabis can alter the metalbism of other
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 12:11 PM
Nov 2019

drugs leading to toxicity of those drugs.

As with any drug there are potential side effects.

The Side effects associated with use of marijuana is dependent on the individual. Everyone is different What is perfectly fine for some may not be for someone else.

https://www.rxlist.com/consumer_medical_marijuana_cannabis/drugs-condition.htm






If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

aikoaiko

(34,127 posts)
387. Which is a good reason to decriminalize it so that people talk to their doctors..
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 12:20 PM
Nov 2019

...about their cannabis.

Right now there are probably millions of people who don't tell their doctors that they use cannabis because of insurance or legal worries.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

BlueJac

(7,838 posts)
388. So out of touch with reality
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 12:31 PM
Nov 2019

Wake up Joe

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

obamanut2012

(25,906 posts)
400. Ok, Boomer
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 01:37 PM
Nov 2019

Do not get his "Reefer Madness" cannabis myths defense. Especially at a time when many, many states have legalized cannabis in some way.

And, the "Gateway Drug" trope is literally a Right Wing trope. WHY, JOE?!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

backscatter712

(26,355 posts)
407. Took the words right out of my mouth!
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 01:45 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

DesertRat

(27,995 posts)
486. Biden was born in 1942, pre-Boomer years
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 06:34 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Still In Wisconsin

(4,450 posts)
452. THAT'S IT! HE'S OUT!! UNDER THE BUS JOE!
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 03:26 PM
Nov 2019




...oh yeah, and
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

LonePirate

(13,386 posts)
460. How is this different than a Dem candidate saying they are anti-choice?
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 03:56 PM
Nov 2019

This should be disqualifying.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

revmclaren

(2,488 posts)
466. Are you f-ing kidding me....???
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 04:28 PM
Nov 2019

Are you actually saying the rights of a woman to control her own body are the same as the right to recreationaly smoke pot!!

OMFG!!!

Self delete buddy.



ONLY!!! 2019 and beyond.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LonePirate

(13,386 posts)
469. I'm saying it is unfathomable for Dems to nominate an anti-choice candidate. How is this different?
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 04:36 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Mouth

(3,123 posts)
500. Agree with you
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 07:57 PM
Nov 2019

Last edited Mon Nov 18, 2019, 09:22 PM - Edit history (1)

Disqualifying in that it's SO FUCKING STUPID it should disqualify him from the primary.

Obviously, even a gaffe prone, prison loving, drug warrior is better than cheeto benito, but I'll work like hell against him now in the primary.

Just. Fucking . Stupid.

Go home, joe, you're past your expiration date. this is damn near a deal killer for any hopes of getting the people I know who are usually apathetic out to vote.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

LonePirate

(13,386 posts)
502. Heads up. Someone will likely alert that. You can't criticize him without suffering consequences.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 08:03 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Mouth

(3,123 posts)
520. Thanks, but I don't care
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 09:24 PM
Nov 2019

I've even defended the need to run a centrist candidate on terms of sheer electability. But to me, anyone against legalization is a stupid fucking asshole, I don't care if it's a relative or someone who is treated like their shit doesn't stink.

Joe is now second to last on my list.

Anyone against full legalization is a fucking knucklehead.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
543. And you had the temerity to ask me if I'm on the right forum?
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 04:51 PM
Nov 2019

Man, oh man.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

tman

(983 posts)
476. I like Biden but this is a big, big vote loser.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 05:19 PM
Nov 2019

Against Trump, this is an extremely bad policy to take and will supress the youth vote.

I'm begining to think Trump has a great shot at relelection.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

Response to tman (Reply #476)

 

peacebuzzard

(5,124 posts)
495. I hope Biden takes a serious look at the financial benefits of this benign industry.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 07:29 PM
Nov 2019

The regularization of the cannabis industry would be very beneficial for income and tax generation for the U.S.
It would solve many issues, too many to go into, and the financial boom would be a godsend.
Not to mention many health problems would have solutions and be addressed. But, like anything, there will be abuse in the system, over-abuse and necessary controls similar to the alcohol industry.

But the benefits would far outweigh the drawbacks.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Celerity

(42,645 posts)
499. I will be surprised if this doesn't come up at the debate, and if/when it does, not much good for
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 07:55 PM
Nov 2019

anyone in our Party will follow, I fear. Why even bring this shit up with such a ham-fisted answer I do not know. Also, from most all I have seen, weed as a gateway drug is basically a RW trope nowadays.

OF all the golden oldies for Biden to recycle, 'Joe as arch drug warrior' is not a good one to trot out, re-tune/de-tune slightly and spit-shine for the 2020's. It is not helpful at all for our general election chances.


Joe Biden’s long record supporting the war on drugs and mass incarceration, explained

Biden was a major Democratic leader in spearheading America’s war on drugs during the 1980s and ’90s.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/4/25/18282870/joe-biden-criminal-justice-war-on-drugs-mass-incarceration

At the Democratic debate on Wednesday night, Democratic candidates ranging from Cory Booker to Julián Castro hit Joe Biden for his long, punitive record on criminal justice. Biden’s record puts him at sharp odds with where Democrats are today: He has one of the most punitive, “tough on crime” records on criminal justice issues within the 2020 field — more so than even opponents Kamala Harris or Amy Klobuchar, both of whom have also been criticized for their records. In fact, Biden was at the center of building federal policies that escalated the war on drugs and mass incarceration.

Consider one moment in Biden’s career: In 1989, at the height of punitive anti-drug and mass incarceration politics, Biden, then a senator, went on national television to criticize a plan from President George H.W. Bush to escalate the war on drugs. The plan, Biden said, didn’t go far enough.

“Quite frankly, the president’s plan is not tough enough, bold enough, or imaginative enough to meet the crisis at hand,” he said. He called not just for harsher punishments for drug dealers but to “hold every drug user accountable.” Bush’s plan, Biden added, “doesn’t include enough police officers to catch the violent thugs, not enough prosecutors to convict them, not enough judges to sentence them, and not enough prison cells to put them away for a long time” — a direct call for more incarceration.


As the head of the Senate Judiciary Committee in the late 1980s and early ’90s, Biden did not just support the war on drugs and mass incarceration; he wrote many of the laws that helped build a punitive criminal justice system. That included measures that enacted more incarceration, more prisons, and tougher prison sentences for drug offenses, particularly crack cocaine.

snip


sigh
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Thekaspervote

(32,606 posts)
533. Sigh is right!! Give it a rest!!
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 03:52 AM
Nov 2019

/photo/1
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Celerity

(42,645 posts)
540. it was not my OP and you misunderstood my sigh I do believe nt
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 12:32 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

The Mouth

(3,123 posts)
544. disgusting
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 05:41 PM
Nov 2019

"Bush’s plan, Biden added, “doesn’t include enough police officers to catch the violent thugs, not enough prosecutors to convict them, not enough judges to sentence them, and not enough prison cells to put them away for a long time”"

SMH.

Weed as a gateway drug is right up there with Planned Parenthood selling baby parts and Welfare Queens driving Cadillacs as far as being not just a right wing trope but a nutcase jack boot licking right wing trope.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Tarc

(10,472 posts)
515. Someone remind Joe that this isn't 1988, he isn't running against Dukakis and Gephardt
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 08:31 PM
Nov 2019

but rather Bernie and Liz. He is very out of step on this issue for 2019

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

Response to aikoaiko (Original post)

 

Gothmog

(143,999 posts)
518. Here is where Joe Biden stands on marijuana laws
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 09:00 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

aikoaiko

(34,127 posts)
521. Sorry, Joe. Not good enough. Say "legalize cannabis"
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 10:04 PM
Nov 2019

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Gothmog

(143,999 posts)
524. This is good enough for me
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 02:16 AM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Thekaspervote

(32,606 posts)
532. What would you like him to say?? For heavens sake...enough is never gonna be enough
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 03:51 AM
Nov 2019

/photo/1
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Gothmog

(143,999 posts)
519. Nate Silver-Biden's position on marijuana is farther to left than headlines suggest
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 09:03 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

NCLefty

(3,678 posts)
525. Well... he's not wrong in my family. Two went from weed to worse things as teens.
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 02:31 AM
Nov 2019

YMMV.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

LeftTurn3623

(628 posts)
538. Biden is too out of touch
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 10:56 AM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Cartaphelius

(868 posts)
551. Joe is correct!
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 09:19 PM
Nov 2019

Mary Jane is and has always been a Gateway Drug.

A Gateway to better sex!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,110 posts)
552. LOL... so true!!
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 09:23 PM
Nov 2019

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

aikoaiko

(34,127 posts)
554. you made me lulz
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 09:37 PM
Nov 2019

thank you.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Cartaphelius

(868 posts)
556. I would have hoped for
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 10:26 PM
Nov 2019

a good ole orgasm but lulz is good, I hope.

LOL

oxoxoxox

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

betsuni

(25,122 posts)
555. This thread needs a musical ending.
Tue Nov 19, 2019, 09:49 PM
Nov 2019

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

Response to aikoaiko (Original post)

Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»Democratic Primaries»Biden Says Marijuana Migh...