Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumBiden Says Marijuana Might Be A Gateway Drug
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tomangell/2019/11/17/biden-says-marijuana-might-be-a-gateway-drug/?fbclid=IwAR3Lgfos0NH-Ujt2van3iNpFU19l8CrBIstxCWve5bA9wx_qJv-7lrfkCSs#4a435632130d
Former Vice President Joe Biden (D) said on Saturday that hes not sure if marijuana is a gateway drug that leads to the use of other, more dangerous substances.
The truth of the matter is, theres not nearly been enough evidence that has been acquired as to whether or not it is a gateway drug, the 2020 presidential candidate claimed at a town hall meeting in Las Vegas. Its a debate, and I want a lot more before I legalize it nationally. I want to make sure we know a lot more about the science behind it.
That said, Biden added that while he doesnt personally support ending cannabis prohibition, states should be able to make a judgement to legalize marijuana. I think thats OK, he said.
Biden, who in past years has clearly said he thinks cannabis is a gateway drug and has a long record of supporting legislation to ramp up the war on drugs, was answering a voters question about whether his position on marijuana has changed.
Time to evolve, Joe. Gateway drug talk is as relevant as "Just say no."
eta: Trauma or Adverse Childhood Experiences is the real gateway to substance abuse and harm.
https://www.cmhnetwork.org/news/trauma-is-the-gateway-drug-an-aces-informed-approach-to-substance-abuse-treatment/
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
dewsgirl
(14,961 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
RKP5637
(67,030 posts)pot is a gateway drug and drugs or bad while they are getting shit-faced on beer.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to RKP5637 (Reply #2)
Chin music This message was self-deleted by its author.
RKP5637
(67,030 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to RKP5637 (Reply #2)
Chin music This message was self-deleted by its author.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,110 posts)Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #283)
Chin music This message was self-deleted by its author.
LongtimeAZDem
(4,494 posts)Anti-marijuana ads and presentations were always over-the-top and full of ridiculous claims.
So when a young person actually tried it, and discovered how relatively benign it is, they then wondered, "what else were they lying about?"
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Eyeball_Kid
(7,410 posts)No, it's not a gateway to harder drugs. I frankly don't have time and never did have time to behave in a way that verifies the "gateway" theory. And beyond the normal experimentation with psychedelics many decades ago, I haven't come close to expanding my drug usage. In fact, my familiarity with pot has DECREASED my alcohol usage. Alcohol wreaks far more discomfort and physical problems than pot, and I'm just not interested in the aftereffects of drinking.
IMO, if there is ANY rationale for claiming that pot is a gateway drug, it's that others, that is, MILLIONS of others who use pot might refuse to buy cheap beer and booze for their weekend hijinks, which could decrease profits for the big breweries and distilleries. And THAT'S the rub.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Faux pas
(14,582 posts)for 47 years. The only other drug I ever used was alcohol. Thanks to pot, I also quit drinking. Life is GOOOOD.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Mandeville
(35 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Faux pas
(14,582 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
SonofDonald
(2,050 posts)And it's been 43 years since that day
I don't get "Stoned" anymore as that's for teenagers and such, I have a couple puffs after dinner each night and it really does help me relax and sleep deeply
I use it to take away all the little aches and pains that my 60 yo beat to a crap body ends up with at the end of each day
I can go without and have before but I prefer not to
I quit drinking 22 years ago and never looked back, ciggs and alcohol are the real gateway drugs
My doctors had me on Percocet and Vicodin for three years then 180 mg of morphine sulfate per day for six years
Are doctors involved in drug trafficking?, I think we found the answer to that recently
I've been off the opiates for 1.5 years now, turns out I probably didn't need them for the last 2-3 years I was on them
Due to injuries, broken legs, arm, a bad back and a stabbing I've spent 12+ years on opiates so far in my life
I'll stick with pot and never look back
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Faux pas
(14,582 posts)Glad for you that you could get off the opiates, from what I've observed over the years, it's not easy to do. I really liked vicodin the few times it was prescribed for me. It reminded me of pot, I was in pain but I didn't care lol. I spent most of my life seeing chiropractors for my aches and pains from 11 car accidents (I'm not a bad driver I'm a bad passenger) but they won't touch since I broke my neck. I've been using acupuncture for about 6 years and it works pretty damned good.
Western 'medicine' is a racket too intertwined with big pharma for my liking.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
SonofDonald
(2,050 posts)It's a plant grown in the Far East they've been using for centuries, it's ground into a fine powder and I mix three heaping teaspoons with grape sugarless drink mix and down the the hatch she goes
1/2 hour to take effect, lasts for at least four hours, no side effects, no mental fuzziness, nothing but pain relief
It's an alkaloid so they keep talking about making it a scheduled drug but haven't yet
I would say there are hundreds of thousands of people that use it now in the USA, it flat just works for me
There are strains that are dissacociative or can give you a buzz, I tried a white strain of "Maeng Da" that made me essentially drunk, I only took it once, I don't drink so it was a huge surprise to be drunk again
It's either that or go back to eating handfuls of Motrin every day
I use the premium Maeng Da by Bumblebee Co of Los Angeles California
It's the best for pain I've found
I have pain in my legs, hips and back, about five on the ten scale, Kratom just flat out works, as a bonus it's roughage too
Works for me
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Faux pas
(14,582 posts)and herbal stuff. Never heard of Kratom though, will check it out. Thanks.
I use Dit Dao Jow liniment that my acupuncturist makes. It's from Chinese medicine. It was used mostly for martial arts pain. I also do moxibustion. And of course my trusty old heating pad. Almost anything that some mad chemist hasn't whipped in some lab lol.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
SonofDonald
(2,050 posts)Those little smoke and beer shops and out of the way small stores
I researched it quite a bit before giving it a try, there are thousands of testimonials out there of how it helped people got off of opiates for good
As I mentioned there are strains that are said to have calming or sedative effect so it's best to choose wisely but the Maeng Da is for pain, like any drug Kratom can be abused but not for me, I found the strain for pain
I have read that some have had withdrawals from it but it's the strain you're using that dictates that, I personally have not experienced withdrawal even if I have run out for a bit, the pain comes back but that's it
The little store I get it from has a hard time keeping it in stock now and then but just the brand I use, they have others but the type and seller I mentioned is the gold standard for me
I wish you well and freedom from pain
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Faux pas
(14,582 posts)at you!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Hestia
(3,818 posts)hallucinogen, or just like khat, which is mildly addicting and was given to child soldiers in Africa. Elders were practically on their knees begging not to pull Kratom from the legal market. They were off the pain killers. But you know those repuglican death panels...always seem to make sure that Big Pharma gets to sell their drugs.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
SonofDonald
(2,050 posts)In all reality who else could it be?
They aren't making the money it brings so I can bet you they are behind any attempt to outlaw it's use
Get us all hooked on opiates then destroy our way off of them
Bastards all
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Response to SonofDonald (Reply #441)
rayshow Spam deleted by MIR Team
at140
(6,110 posts)Of course not. Only those who are pre-disposed to alcoholism become alcohol addicts.
I did fair amount of partying when under age 45. But never became alcoholic, and have not had more than one drink per YEAR since age 60 for the last 19 years (yes that makes me 79 years old).
Probably same with marijuana?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Andy823
(11,495 posts)that is the gate way drug, and it's the most abused drug in history. Biden is still living in the past. Alcohol is far more dangerous than pot.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
obamanut2012
(25,906 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
enough
(13,235 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Eyeball_Kid
(7,410 posts)Of course he's courting the southern conservative Limbaugh demographic, but it's the kind of red meat that he's tossing that pisses me off. The gateway drug meme is old and inoperative. He clearly knows better but will sacrifice truth for votes. It's a cynical ploy that is beneath his dignity. Too bad.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Ferrets are Cool
(21,059 posts)go to the voting booth.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
highplainsdem
(48,722 posts)Seriously.
And if they think Trump would ever legalize marijuana, they're idiots.
Biden's made it clear he isn't opposed to states legalizing marijuana.
And I don't see anything wrong with doing more studies.
FWIW, most of the people I've known who smoked pot also used other illegal drugs, at least occasionally, even if they smoked pot more than they used any other drug.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Ferrets are Cool
(21,059 posts)or at least the ones I have been acquainted with. There is NO reason to give them ANY reason to stay home. I know you are a Biden supporter and support anything that comes from his mouth, but he is "old establishment". I'm 63 and even I understand that fact. He is flat out wrong to give younger voters a reason to stay home. Feel free to disagree. It is our right.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Eliot Rosewater
(31,097 posts)Fuck it, I quit.
Go ahead and FUCK all of us over till the END OF TIME!
I tried...
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Ferrets are Cool
(21,059 posts)we have to give them reasons to go vote. You know as well as I that the majority of citizens are not as informed or interested in politics as we are here. Hell, most of the ones I am familiar with have just tuned out politics. It's up to us to help them understand.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
thesquanderer
(11,953 posts)...and we may need their votes so WE don't get Trump.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Thekaspervote
(32,606 posts)The economy, health care civil rights.
Get a grip!!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
EmInColorado
(31 posts)It's a massive issue and has helped people like me kick opioid addiction. Please rethink your statement. Thank you.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ChubbyStar
(3,191 posts)Way to go!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
maximusveritas
(2,915 posts)Opioid deaths were at a record high last year, so it is ridiculous to act like weed is some magic cure for any addiction when the numbers show the opposite if anything.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
EmInColorado
(31 posts)Weed is the cure for getting off opioids & I'm living proof.
I became addicted to Hydrocodone while IN THE HOSPITAL recovering from surgery. Atavan did little which is the regular treatment to help with coming down from anxiety. Upon discharge, my surgeons spoke with me and told me I should hit up a dispensary for low powered edibles and THC infused CBD oil. Naturally they couldn't prescribe it (more reason to legalize) & I had to pay out of my own pocket.
It worked & got me off opioids. And I'm far from alone. Many are seeing the benefits.
You know what's ridiculous? Your comment towards me when you have never been in my shoes or the anybody else's who has had to go through this. And it's very offensive as it dismisses the plight many face.
Joe Biden is wrong on this. Period.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
stopdiggin
(11,090 posts)and there was no personal attack in the post. Differences can be pointed sometimes (it's a place for discussion and opinion) .. but not liking, or agreeing with, your opinion is all par for he course. Don't take it personal.
(and welcome to DU)
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
maximusveritas
(2,915 posts)I understand this is personal for you and it's great if it works for you, but to try and make broad generalizations about how it would work for others is simply wrong.
The statistics/research is what I rely on as I am someone who believes in science/reason over emotion.
That seems to be what Biden is saying too, that we need to do more research instead of just going with the popular sentiment based on no evidence. Maybe he is wrong, but that is yet to be proven.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)An easy Google search is all Biden or anyone has to do.
Can marijuana help end the opioids crisis?
In states where medical marijuana is legal, doctors write fewer opioid prescriptions and patients consume lower doses
Legalization opponents call marijuana a gateway drug that leads users to more dangerous substances. But could it also be an exit drug that helps ease the opioids crisis?
The data is scarce, but the anecdotes are plentiful.
After more than a decade in the US air force, Jennifer Baxter needed foot surgery. It wasnt successful, and she had to have two more procedures to correct her severely disfigured, painful and mechanically incorrect foot.
Baxter had had surgeries before, and had taken opioids to recover. But, as she tells it, this time she connected with a civilian doctor known for his generosity with pain medication.
She heard medical marijuana might be helpful and began using it in spring 2016. Balancing it with the slow-release morphine to stave off the symptoms of opioid withdrawal, she quit pills entirely in several months.
Today Baxter, 40, has a new life. She is engaged to be married. She volunteers with rescue animals and is involved in her church. She has lost weight and lives in Arizona, where she can legally obtain medical marijuana for her pain, PTSD and insomnia. She takes it nightly and sometimes during the day.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/apr/01/marijuana-opioids-crisis-exit-drug
There is probably more evidence of it as an "exit drug" than a "gateway" drug. The vast majority of people who use cannabis do not go on to harder drugs. This is typically a talking point we hear from Republicans such as Chris Christie.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
maximusveritas
(2,915 posts)Even your article says "The data is scarce, but the anecdotes are plentiful."
The only research it cites says that opioid prescribing went down, which makes sense, but that doesn't mean opioid use went down. As I pointed out in my comment, deaths from drug overdoses went up, so that suggests doctors may be prescribing less opioids but people are getting their fix off the street instead.
As far as being a gateway drug, I do agree that this is likely an antiquated notion based on the research that has been done, but its still a reasonable position to say we need more research to say for sure.
Overall, I don't have any problem with legalizing it, but I just get annoyed by Marijuana advocates using anecdotes and pseudoscience to pretend it is some kind of miracle cure with no possible side effects and that anyone urging caution/restraint is an old-fashioned Republican.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)Look at all the comments in this thread I see a lot more out of touch beliefs than the marijuana advocates. The biggest side effect are legal side effects which I'm trying to get rid of.
Here is complete info
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/9bgn7a/why-marijuana-is-not-a-gateway-drug-1013
The best study that links it also realizes alcohol & nicotine primes the brain to want to experiment with other drugs. You don't see anyone advocating the curtailing of alcohol consumption but as someone who hates alcohol & hates the side effects I have to deal with a lot of reefer madness just to get something treated the same way alcohol is (which is more dangerous not to mention a heavier style of drinking is associated with homicide offenders than the general population (could you imagine if cannabis had a stat like that?)
There are plenty of people that kick harder drugs including alcohol by using cannabis. It could also be used as a pain agent instead of opiods and could be used to kick an opiod habit.
---
Recent preliminary findings suggest that marijuana could be an effective therapy in the management of opioid addictions. Current studies indicate that medical cannabis significantly leads to a 33% reduction in the use of opioids and opioid-related fatalities. The findings are consistent with the report of the opioids addiction patients enrolled on the MCP [7]. Under this setting, the patients with the opioid use disorder were able to self-manage marijuana therapy and reduce the use of opioids for pain management. Nonetheless, meta-analysis shows that the safety and efficacy of the use of medical cannabis in the treatment of opioid addiction were statistically significant as the patients were able to engage in their own methods of harm reduction [3]. The latter included abstinence from the use of prescription opioids for pain relief.
Cannabis derivatives especially the CBD tends to be nonrewarding and can modulate the perception of anxiety common to patients addicted to opioids. Besides, CBD has no known side effects, and study reports indicate its low lethality [9]. Based on this aspect, medical cannabis can be considered a natural replacement for prescription opioids for pain management. Likewise, published reports in the Trends in Neurosciences reveal that clinical CBD restores the neurobiological damage caused by opioid addictions [6].
According to a study by Samoilov and Browne (2018), scientists have reported two major active chemicals found in the marijuana plant. These include the cannabidiol (CBD) and tetrahydrocannabinol (THC). According to the research studies, CBD impacts the brain without inducing addiction. However, the THC chemical has pain relieving properties but can significantly lead to addiction. Although limited scientific evidence has been conducted to ascertain the medical use of chemicals in cannabis, research indicates that there are more than 400 compounds in marijuana responsible for pain relief [10]. However, legitimate use of marijuana still limits it for management of opioids addiction due to its associated harm. Research studies by Esther & Choo indicate that chronic use of marijuana can lead to impaired memory, reduced ability to learn, and slow processing of information for children before attaining age 16. In adults diagnosed with or without other substancerelated disorders, short-term effects of marijuana have been reported. These include disorientation, drowsiness, dizziness, loss of balance, hallucinations, and confusion [9]. Apparently, most of these reported adverse effects of cannabis tend to be non-serious. Documented evidence has shown that smoked marijuana is relatively safer for adult patients diagnosed with opioid use disorder. The aspect is supported by the premise that smoked Cannabis sativa extracts are well-tolerated and are not associated with the risk of mortality for opioid addicts [6].
Several cannabis-based preparations in addition to smoked products include edible oil in vaporized or capsule form. It, however, remains uncertain on how each of the cannabis-based products influences the health of the patients diagnosed with opioid use disorder. Seemingly, consumption of the medical cannabis leads to euphoria and is associated with altered perception together with decreased anxiety [8]. Moreover, the CBD in marijuana modulates seizures, nausea, and possesses antipsychotic effects. Apparently, medical cannabis acts on the endocannabinoid system in which the endocannabinoid neurotransmitters initiate the signaling of the cannabinoid receptors indicated as 1 and 2 (CB1 and CB2) in the brain. CB1 is a
http://hospital-medical-management.imedpub.com/the-benefits-and-effects-of-usingmarijuana-as-a-pain-agent-to-treatopioid-addiction.php?aid=23610
It doesn't matter if these are anecdotes are not. There are real people out there kicking more severe addictions with cannabis. I certainly don't want to use alcohol and end up delusional tremors or worse.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
obamanut2012
(25,906 posts)Cannabis is not a gateway drug. You are spouting literal RW Reefer Madness myths generated by Big Pharma. You are wrong.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Thekaspervote
(32,606 posts)Marijuana legalization very high on the list. Not to say it isnt, its not anywhere near issues like health insurance, gun control, civil rights issues, womens right to choose
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)So legalization was more popular than Hillary Clinton.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to Thekaspervote (Reply #339)
EmInColorado This message was self-deleted by its author.
EmInColorado
(31 posts)Weed is the #1 reason why POC are incarcerated. It's all interwoven.
Not only is it a winner during the primaries but in the general election as well.
In the end, it's long past time it's legalized. It's not 1950 anymore.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
obamanut2012
(25,906 posts)Anti cannabis laws are literally rooted in racism.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
EmInColorado
(31 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Voltaire2
(12,618 posts)And those arrested were disproportionately people of color.
But no big deal.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
obamanut2012
(25,906 posts)You are so wrong.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,110 posts)Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
smb
(3,452 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
totodeinhere
(13,034 posts)Personally I have always had trouble with one issue voters. If you don't want to support him that's fine but basing it on such a narrow criterion is not helpful IMO.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)...and being soft on health care reform, and playing waaaaay too much footsie with Wall Street.
In general, Joe, more than just about everyone else in the Democratic Party, needs to be told "OK, Boomer."
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
totodeinhere
(13,034 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)It doesn't work at all. The "moderate" Republicans almost always keep voting for Republicans.
We win when we energize the left, rather than pandering to the mythical reasonable Republican.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Ferrets are Cool
(21,059 posts)sheesh
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,110 posts)Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)He might have an epiphany that makes him far more chill on issues like this.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,110 posts)Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Auggie
(31,060 posts)HUGE lapse in judgment.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
shraby
(21,946 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
YOHABLO
(7,358 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)He said "theres not nearly been enough evidence that has been acquired as to whether or not it is a gateway drug.."
Not even close to the Forbes headline "Marijuana Might Be A Gateway Drug"
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
aikoaiko
(34,127 posts)No, it hasnt changed, he told the town hall participant.
In 2010, the then-vice president said, I still believe its a gateway drug. Ive spent a lot of my life as chairman of the Judiciary Committee dealing with this. I think it would be a mistake to legalize.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)Biden is either ignorant or lying. Plenty of research has been done. Its not a gateway drug. Outdated ideals from a center-right candidate.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)Hes either ignorant of the research or hes lying. Not really a third option there.
Ill hold my nose and support him in the general, but Bidens ideology is outdated and short-sighted.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)There's not even any real evidence that such a thing as 'gateway drugs' even exists!
Instead of trying to prove MJ IS a 'gateway drug', how about someone first proves there's even such a fucking 'thing' as one to begin with, Joe?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LuvNewcastle
(16,820 posts)Is there a gate? I've never seen one.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)Many years ago I knew a woman who got the 'munchies' and ate a full box of prunes.
She said they tasted wonderful !
Need I go on?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
in2herbs
(2,942 posts)trials, will not change the federal designation of MJ as a Level I drug, all things that need to be addressed and changed to make MJ as legal to use everywhere and for anything that pharmaceuticals are used for.
To do less than legalize MJ at the federal level is being centrist.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
stopdiggin
(11,090 posts)is woefully inadequate in addressing the problems caused. (not to mention intellectually dishonest) Joe muffed this one. If this is his position -- he's just flat out wrong
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)I once talked with a cocaine addict who said his was coffee. He never liked marijuana but loved caffeine pills. We need to do something to make pain relief safer and more accessible. With these wars and an aging population, more people need it.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
LiberalArkie
(15,686 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)Biden needs to go away.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Thekaspervote
(32,606 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)Name recognition goes a LONG way, though.
Id rather a candidate who isnt right of center. Weve had enough of that. A constant rightward shift. Biden is not the answer.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Thekaspervote
(32,606 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Bradshaw3
(7,454 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)Thats fact. His Senate record proves that.
Its just that the Republicans are so far right that Biden appears left.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
SterlingPound
(428 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Thekaspervote
(32,606 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
RandiFan1290
(6,206 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Mouth
(3,123 posts)Biden, along with most Republicans, favored the Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act, a bill to reform bankruptcy laws essentially to make it more difficult to file for bankruptcy.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Voltaire2
(12,618 posts)Biden has a vested interest in defending the status quo, he helped create it.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Mouth
(3,123 posts)Nah, never...
/sarc
It is hard to name an infamously unjust feature of Americas criminal-justice system that Joe Biden didnt help to bring about. Mandatory minimum sentences for nonviolent drug offenders, the sentencing disparity between crack and powder cocaine, civil asset forfeiture, and extensive use of the death penalty the Delaware senator was involved in establishing them all.
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/03/joe-biden-record-on-busing-incarceration-racial-justice-democratic-primary-2020-explained.html
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Champion Jack
(5,378 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Cha
(295,899 posts)And, no it's not a "shame"that Biden is leading.. we want to beat trump.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Celerity
(42,645 posts)the turnout across the board (age-wise) in key demographics we need to turn out in large numbers. No large numbers are not going to vote for Biden if he had just used a neutral statement and said leave it up to the states for now.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
beastie boy
(9,059 posts)Wanting more research done on marijuana and wanting to know more about its effects is disqualifying?
Sure! Off with is head!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)Hes taken a pretty firm stance against MJ legalization. He is out of touch.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
beastie boy
(9,059 posts)No spinning it.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)Thats a bullshit term. And there is tons of MJ research. Biden is an anti MJ candidate, and always has been.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
beastie boy
(9,059 posts)Biden says that IT IS NOT CLEAR to him whether or not marijuana is a gateway drug! This statement doesn't make him anti or pro anything.
And I myself have yet to see consensus on the part of the research community on the effects of marijuana or lack thereof. It would help your argument if you were able to provide evidence of such consensus.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)Its clear to most of the civilized world that it is not.
Gateway drug is a made-up scare monger term. It has no basis in reality. Biden is using bullshit wording to make his hard stance on MJ look soft.
Using the term gateway drug is being anti MJ. Period.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
beastie boy
(9,059 posts)You are making a judgement based on your views, and you refuse to give him the courtesy of having his own views.
But try to convince him instead of bashing him. Post a link to a reputable source that shows how much of the civilized world is convinced that marijuana is not a gateway drug. And how much of that same world has no opinion on the subject.
BTW, several posters here labeled beet as a gateway drug. Are they scare mongering and anti-beer, simply because they used the term?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)Just admit Bidens views on MJ legalization suck. Because they do.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
beastie boy
(9,059 posts)https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287348505#post9
How about this?
https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287348505#post16
I don't think facetious means what you think it means. But I must bend to your will and admit Biden's views suck, right? (In case you are wondering, I am being facetious)
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)I know you want to keep an argument going about different things to distract from that, but Bidens views on MJ outright suck. And using bullshit terminology is part of the problem.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
beastie boy
(9,059 posts)If you find it distracting, too bad.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Doodley
(8,976 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
redqueen
(115,096 posts)The next step is usually booze.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Doodley
(8,976 posts)More people have died from smoking than have died from all the wars in history.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)Because its not a thing that exists in real life.
Shades of Henry Anslinger.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)https://www.drugrehab.com/guides/gateway-drugs/
http://www.drugpolicy.org/marijuana-gateway-drug
As you told someone else on the board, there are two options: "either lying or ignorant of the facts."
You've been shown the facts.
Care to retract or say thank you?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(295,899 posts)As you can see.. it does exist and you're wrong.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Voltaire2
(12,618 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Thekaspervote
(32,606 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Perhaps you'd like to take that up with the medical community.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22712674
Plenty of research has been done.... those that say that it's a "Bullshit term" are, as you say, either lying or ignorant of the facts.
You're welcome.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
melman
(7,681 posts)It's true. Here's a link in case you were too busy defending drug warrior Joe to notice.
---
Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) said on Monday that she absolutely supports the legalization of marijuana. She cited racial disparities as a major reason for that stance.
The best evidence suggests that African Americans and whites use marijuana at about the same rates, she said at a CNN town hall in New Hampshire for presidential candidates.
But African Americans are more likely to be arrested [than] whites are ... if we talk about criminal justice reform, we need to start with the things we make illegal. One of the best places we could start with is the legalization of marijuana.
A Harvard freshman who asked Warren about her background on marijuana legalization incorrectly asserted that she had opposed legalization in Massachusetts in 2013.
I supported Massachusetts changing its laws on marijuana and I now support the legalization of marijuana [in the United States], the senator replied.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/elizabeth-warren-marijuana-legalization-cnn-town-hall_n_5cbe58ede4b0315683fc0b4a
You are so welcome!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Are you sure you're responding to the right person?
"Defending drug warrior Joe" whatever that means, is certainly not my point and nowhere did I say anything that would indicate it was my point.
Also, wasn't said to you.
Perhaps you're in the mood to needle someone, but you're barking up the wrong tree. Just a thought - you might want to try reading the posts before you start attacking someone for something that's just not there. It can make one look rather foolish.
But thanks for the lols.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,110 posts)Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
still_one
(91,945 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(295,899 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,272 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,110 posts)Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
LittleGirl
(8,261 posts)Step down now Joe. Jesus this is the 21st century.
Its my medicine.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
George II
(67,782 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LittleGirl
(8,261 posts)MJ is here to stay whether he believes it or not. Sheesh.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)at the federal level.
Both should be 100% legal.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
obamanut2012
(25,906 posts)The same as they can buy a fifth of whisky or a case of beer. Even more so, since cannabis is not destructive like alcohol is.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,145 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Thekaspervote
(32,606 posts)More pile on the front runner
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)Biden should be running against the other candidates at this point.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Thekaspervote
(32,606 posts)Negative comments do nothing to change the minds of voters
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
SterlingPound
(428 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Thekaspervote
(32,606 posts)That is so democratic of you
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
calguy
(5,222 posts)It never did lead to stronger drugs. When I was young, in my very early 20's and serving in the Army, we did experiment with LSD and mecsaline, but really only for about a 2-3 month time span and we all could clearly see that while it was a lot of fun, doing LSD was not a sustainable or healthy activity. We all went back to pot only. I reached a point in my life where just naturally quit smoking pot. Haven't touched it in 15 years or so.
From my experience I can say that the only thing smoking pot leads to is smoking more pot.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to calguy (Reply #33)
Chin music This message was self-deleted by its author.
walkingman
(7,507 posts)life for many it becomes the truth. I have personal experience for over 50 years and it has not proven to be that way for me.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
beastie boy
(9,059 posts)There is a hell of a difference between "it might be" and "not enough evidence it might be", is there?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Thekaspervote
(32,606 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
aikoaiko
(34,127 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
beastie boy
(9,059 posts)This is what Biden said: "I want to make sure we know a lot more about the science behind it.
Not only does this have nothing to do with the header, it has nothing to do with lending support to federal restrictions on marijuana sales. Again, there is a hell of a difference between lending support and being undecided. In fact, wanting to know more is equivalent to withholding support, not lending it.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
aikoaiko
(34,127 posts)...while equivocating over a bullshit issue.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
beastie boy
(9,059 posts)By implication, anyone who reserves judgement on any issue because he wants to know more about it, is guilty by default of advocating status quo on that issue. Does your position apply to other candidates who remain silent on marijuana legalization as well, or is your criticism reserved to just one candidate?
I do agree with you on one thing, though: this is a bullshit issue. I am stunned by the sheer volume of fake outrage generated over it in this thread.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
aikoaiko
(34,127 posts)Every fucking day.
I have not heard any other candidates (at least the ones in the top tier) say anything about cannabis being a gateway drug.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
beastie boy
(9,059 posts)That was my entire point. If the rules of logic change depending on issues, arguing anything becomes absolutely pointless.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Thekaspervote
(32,606 posts)You could change the post to the idiotic corn pop post or what he did 30 years ago and one would have the same responses. Its a smoke screen to bash Biden
the same posters here are the same ones that declare outrage when EW or sanders are challenged
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
beastie boy
(9,059 posts)I just want Biden bashers to go on record. Eventually they will have to re-read their nonsense and realize how ridiculous it is.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Thekaspervote
(32,606 posts)There is a lot of talk out there on where I stand when it comes to our marijuana laws. Here are the facts:
No one should be in jail for recreational use
Decriminalize recreational use and exsponge criminal records
Legalize medical marijuana and let the states legalize recreational use
Studies so health benefits can be determined
Link to tweet
/photo/1
https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287350768
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Voltaire2
(12,618 posts)Doing nothing until the alleged science is settled means continuing the disastrous war on drugs, the mass incarcerations, and the real dangers of black market products.
Biden is hopelessly out of step on this issue.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
beastie boy
(9,059 posts)And it's up to congress to change laws anyway, not him. But if I read his statement correctly, he is all in favor of decriminalizing casual possession of marijuana. That can be done without legalizing it nationally. In other words, replace three strikes and you are out with a slap on the wrist. I believe, since it will involve law enforcement rather than legislation, this can be done with an executive order.
And I would give some more respect to alleged science. You don't want to sound like climate change deniers, do you?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Voltaire2
(12,618 posts)Its a debate, and I want a lot more before I legalize it nationally. I want to make sure we know a lot more about the science behind it.
Hes hiding behind need more research. The effect is to continue the status quo.
And the argument that it's up to congress to change laws anyway, not him , is ridiculous. Should we ignore all policy candidate positions that require legislation? Or just the positions we think are inconvenient?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
beastie boy
(9,059 posts)In your previous post you insist he is against changing the law. Now you are talking about the effect of him not being against changing the law, which you insist will continue status quo.
This ignores just about everything I posted. Even if the law doesn't change, decriminalizing pot will completely overturn the status quo. And unless you can find Biden's quote that states he is against DECRIMINALIZING pot, all the talk of status quo is one big red herring.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Voltaire2
(12,618 posts)alleged research he might be open to not putting poor people in prison for pot. Meanwhile he is defending the status quo.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Thekaspervote
(32,606 posts)Hiding?? Congrats!! That some great hand standing you did there
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Voltaire2
(12,618 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Thekaspervote
(32,606 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
AJT
(5,240 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LakeArenal
(28,713 posts)To not sure.
Besides if states all legalize it,he will have to change nationally.
But I also have smoked 50 plus years.
Its always available. Everywhere.
Legal or not its always going to be to available.
Laws on possession getting easier. Medically you can get it. Thats huge change.
All that being said, Joe Biden remains the most qualified. Beating trump is more important than my personal desire to be on the legal side of pot. Way more.
If he never legalized pot nationally I will still be happy to have voted for the guy who made America American again.
Also, we had the too old crap and the. Anita Hill issue run out again. Soo guess the cannabis argument is run out again. Is someone coming out of the woodwork with the hug issue again?
These issues have done so little. I think it solidifies his support.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
aikoaiko
(34,127 posts)Its not about one's personal desire to get baked.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
LakeArenal
(28,713 posts)Still my spouse had a felony jail sentence for hash.
He agrees Joe Biden is the best candidate by far.
And that was pretty snarky on one persons desire to get baked unless you were speaking of yourself. You know nothing about this persons desires.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,110 posts)Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,110 posts)Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)Legalization is all about the Profit Motive. Period.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)OK Boomer.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BeyondGeography
(39,278 posts)His numbers with them are fugly and he adds waste like this to that dumpster fire regularly.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,110 posts)Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Thekaspervote
(32,606 posts)EW numbers are dismal with AA voters!!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)Biden is 100% right. About time someone pushes back on the Marijuana craze.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
redqueen
(115,096 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Celerity
(42,645 posts)I personally do not smoke at all, it bores me, but it is hardly a 'craze'.
Calling it a craze is not a general election winner in terms of the demographics we need to turn out in a large way.
I would say the actual 'craze' was the utterly shambolic war on drugs.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)Or a better term is fad. Whichever.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
obamanut2012
(25,906 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)And last time we check, this is a Country that allows for both opinion and free speech.
Meanwhile, enjoy your Monday.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Voltaire2
(12,618 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Calculating
(2,954 posts)It's wrong to ruin lives and arrest people over a plant which is less harmful than alcohol. That is a fact.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)Decriminalization is JUSTICE. Legalization is PROFIT all day long.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
obamanut2012
(25,906 posts)"Marijuana craze."
How about that beer craze? Or that Tito's craze? You know, alcohol, which actually does destroy lives and health.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)then barbiturates, then benzos ... those were all found around the house (or my grandparents house) when I was a kid.
THEN I tried pot, then shrooms, then acid, then coke, then speed, then ecstasy, then GHB, then pharmaceutical opioids ... the very last of which was the only one I really abused out of all of them that came before.
SOOOO ... what was the gateway drug, JOE?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
jmbar2
(4,832 posts)Admit it. Chocolate milk comes first. It's all a slippery slope after that.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)I can't say how many times I was caught with pink powder all over my face, but I just couldn't stop.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,110 posts)Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
melman
(7,681 posts)But this war's over and weed won.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,110 posts)Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Thekaspervote
(32,606 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
melman
(7,681 posts)Did you read his comments in the linked article?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Thekaspervote
(32,606 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
melman
(7,681 posts)Last edited Tue Nov 19, 2019, 01:35 PM - Edit history (1)
He's still against legalization.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Basic LA
(1,705 posts)He might as well wear a Davy Crockett coonskin cap. Joe, wake up! We need you here now in the 21st century.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,110 posts)Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
jalan48
(13,797 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Ace Rothstein
(3,101 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Ferrets are Cool
(21,059 posts)They, at least the ones I know, need very little reason to stay home. We, as a party, should not be feeding excuses to them.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Bradshaw3
(7,454 posts)"he majority of the young people present were either employed by the Biden campaign or had some sort of fellowship with the campaign. They had been told they werent allowed to speak to journalists. ..."
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
redqueen
(115,096 posts)😬
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Bradshaw3
(7,454 posts)And for all the talk about his support among AA voters, he has lower numbers there than HRC. And she lost almost 7 percent of AA voters from Obama. He is far from a sure thing in the GE.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MarcA
(2,195 posts)will lead to a loss not only in the electoral college but in the Popular Vote as well.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
treestar
(82,383 posts)that's insulting them.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Thekaspervote
(32,606 posts)They give a bizillion excuses every election cycle
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
The Mouth
(3,123 posts)WE could probably find someone more out of touch to run, if we really tried.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Jake Stern
(3,145 posts)MJ prohibition is causing very real hurt for people and needs to be stopped.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
colsohlibgal
(5,275 posts)I never did a ton of it but knew people who did and none had an urge to go try more serious drugs.
So sorry Joe, this is BS.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LiberalBrooke
(527 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
vercetti2021
(10,150 posts)Medical sense. When I was on antidepressants. I had a really bad reaction to them and became very erratic. Weed helped me mentally and still does. Come on, Joe. Live in 2019.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JudyM
(29,122 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
nilesobek
(1,423 posts)Trump rarely mentions marijuana because the subject is RADIOACTIVE and a vote killer.
Let's nominate someone not so prone to gaffes, someone not so prone to memory lapses, someone not so prone to sniffing hair...
You only have to go back to 2016 to see how phony these polls are. What a bad move by Biden.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Thekaspervote
(32,606 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to aikoaiko (Original post)
Post removed
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
SterlingPound
(428 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
MustLoveBeagles
(11,563 posts)That was really uncalled for.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
James48
(4,416 posts)Im sorry.
Anybody else, Ill work extra hard to get elected.
But Biden just doesnt do it for me. With positions like that, I wont be surprised if the Nazi gets re-elected.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)Those selling the notion that marijuana is problem-free are not telling the truth. Our schools are seeing a terrible impact on students. Teacher, councilors, and administrators at my local high school are very caring and very progressive people; they are tearing their hair out over the terrible impacts that run-away pot consumption is having.
Failed academics, loss of ambition, mental and emotional problems are rampant.
This is a crisis.
Marijuana is not risk free. It is damaging our society.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
redqueen
(115,096 posts)Tobacco isn't risk free. Neither is alcohol. Neither are any and all drugs - prescription and over-the-counter.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)We are seeing major problems happening right now--before our very eyes.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
redqueen
(115,096 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)They have never seen the kinds of issues; failing grades, falling ambitions, behavioral and mental issues, that they have since pot became legal here. They are beside themselves. And these are caring, compassionate, and very liberal people.
You are fooling yourself if you think pot is benign.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
redqueen
(115,096 posts)A lot of teens are depressed and distraught and hopeless because they see the state of the world their parents and grandparents are leaving them.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Surprised at Biden saying this.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)Young minds perform poorly on pot. It interferes with learning and undermines academic success.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
questionseverything
(9,631 posts)geesh
biden is so out of touch, keeping it illegal at the federal level means peops in subsidized housing are going to be treated differently than peops in mansion
same ole shit dif decade
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
obamanut2012
(25,906 posts)Guess what, you have no link, because they can't.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)Minors are also not supposed to take Uber and Lyft. LOL.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Thekaspervote
(32,606 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Quixote1818
(28,903 posts)Please stop just making stuff up. It's not a good look for you.
https://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/8661981-181/marijuana-use-declines-among-california
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)Use by students is skyrocketing according to the teachers and staff at my local high school. They are quite desperate about what's happening and say the problem is district wide.
I believe the people who are on the front lines of education.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Quixote1818
(28,903 posts)Your little circle is not science or real statistics.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)here in California? Rates WERE dropping. Not anymore. Quite the opposite. And the exploding use is harming young people.
"The brain remains in a state of active, experience-guided development from the prenatal period through childhood and adolescence until the age of approximately 21 years.9 During these developmental periods, it is intrinsically more vulnerable than a mature brain to the adverse long-term effects of environmental insults, such as exposure to tetrahydrocannabinol, or THC, the primary active ingredient in marijuana. This view has received considerable support from studies in animals, which have shown, for example, that prenatal or adolescent exposure to THC can recalibrate the sensitivity of the reward system to other drugs10 and that prenatal exposure interferes with cytoskeletal dynamics, which are critical for the establishment of axonal connections between neurons.11"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4827335/
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Quixote1818
(28,903 posts)Are there possible health concerns for heavy users? Yes possibly but again having it illegal just creates a crap load of good people becoming criminals, ramps up the stupid war on drugs etc. and the list is a mile long. People will do it either way so it might as well be legal and regulated.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)I trust you've now read the links that show illegal business dwarf the regulated (legal) ones?
And we have to get real about the serious harm to young minds. Flooding our society with a drug that teens can easily access with the message that it does NO HARM is lie that will devastate far too many lives.
Adverse Effects of Short-Term Use and Long-Term or Heavy Use of Marijuana.
Effects of short-term use:
Impaired short-term memory, making it difficult to learn and to retain information
Impaired motor coordination, interfering with driving skills and increasing the risk of injuries
Altered judgment, increasing the risk of sexual behaviors that facilitate the transmission of sexually transmitted diseases
In high doses, paranoia and psychosis
Effects of long-term or heavy use:
Addiction (in about 9% of users overall, 17% of those who begin use in adolescence, and 25 to 50% of those who are daily users)*
Altered brain development*
Poor educational outcome, with increased likelihood of dropping out of school*
Cognitive impairment, with lower IQ among those who were frequent users during adolescence*
Diminished life satisfaction and achievement (determined on the basis of subjective and objective measures as compared with such ratings in the general population)*
Symptoms of chronic bronchitis
Increased risk of chronic psychosis disorders (including schizophrenia) in persons with a predisposition to such disorders
*The effect is strongly associated with initial marijuana use early in adolescence.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Quixote1818
(28,903 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)while they are at school. Mercifully, that's pretty rare.
In contrast, vaping on campus during the school day is becoming rampant. And that is interfering with students' ability to learn and is undermining their cognitive functioning and proper brain development.
It is a big problem.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Quixote1818
(28,903 posts)since it says Biden is for legalized pot. Have a great day.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
obamanut2012
(25,906 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Quixote1818
(28,903 posts)You keep spouting all this anecdotal evidence and it isn't flying.
https://drugabuse.com/marijuana-vs-alcohol/
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)(fewer fibers) in specific brain regions. These include the precuneus, a key node that is involved in functions that require a high degree of integration (e.g., alertness and self-conscious awareness), and the fimbria, an area of the hippocampus that is important in learning and memory."
One of a long list of serious harms that comes with marijuana use. Especially by adolescents. We are making a huge mistake as a society to treat marijuana as if it is a harmless drug. It is not.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4827335/
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Quixote1818
(28,903 posts)It's against the law for kids? And use is dropping in CA even though you keep suggesting based on your little bubble that everything is going to hell in a hand-basket.
https://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/8661981-181/marijuana-use-declines-among-california
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)is particularly prominent if use starts in adolescence or young adulthood,12 which may help to explain the finding of an association between frequent use of marijuana from adolescence into adulthood and significant declines in IQ.16 The impairments in brain connectivity associated with exposure to marijuana in adolescence are consistent with preclinical findings indicating that the cannabinoid system plays a prominent role in synapse formation during brain development.17"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4827335/
Use is way up. The poll you posted is pure BS. I post about kids because I have one. And I care about what pot consumption is doing to his generation. It is devastating. But you say LOL.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Quixote1818
(28,903 posts)Snip:
Although multiple studies have reported detrimental effects, others have not, and the question of whether marijuana is harmful remains the subject of heated debate. Here we review the current state of the science related to the adverse health effects of the recreational use of marijuana, focusing on those areas for which the evidence is strongest.
Key word is "Evidence".
Web MD:
The Bottom Line on Marijuana
There is some evidence that occasional pot smoking can have harmful effects on the body, although the science is still too new to prove anything.
"We're learning new things every day," says Matthew J. Smith, PhD, a research assistant professor at the Northwestern University Feinberg School of Medicine. "Before we can really understand the effects of marijuana, further research is needed."
https://www.webmd.com/pain-management/features/is-marijuana-safe-web#3
Snip:
So far, states that have legalized recreational marijuana have not seen an increase in use among underage teens, Altieri says.
"By legalizing it and normalizing it," he says, "it's become just another everyday thing that adults partake in it doesn't have that same draw to it that it used to."
Still, McCormick says, many health questions remain to be answered by better research. The increased legal availability of cannabis products in many states, and their increased potency, she says, make that rigorous research more important than ever.
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/01/12/509488977/marijuanas-health-effects-scientists-weigh-in
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)A long time.
Meanwhile, I'm seeing educators throwing up red-flags, saying they have never seen anything like the degree of problems with drug abuse negatively harming students in their entire careers.
So we can ignore the warnings, laugh them off, call it "reefer madness," or we can be adults and deal with reality.
I know my choice.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,110 posts)It's not even arguable.
Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,110 posts)Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
obamanut2012
(25,906 posts)REEFER MADNESS
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)Adolescents increased vulnerability to adverse long-term outcomes from marijuana use is probably related to the fact that the brain, including the endocannabinoid system, undergoes active development during adolescence.6 Indeed, early and regular marijuana use predicts an increased risk of marijuana addiction, which in turn predicts an increased risk of the use of other illicit drugs.7 As compared with persons who begin to use marijuana in adulthood, those who begin in adolescence are approximately 2 to 4 times as likely to have symptoms of cannabis dependence within 2 years after first use.8"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4827335/
The science isn't on your side.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Voltaire2
(12,618 posts)And there is little if any valid science. There is a lot of conjecture, as in the cited article. Meanwhile adolescents have been smoking pot, illegally for the last 50 years and the world hasn't fallen apart, so despite the scare articles like the one from the nih, all that would change is that we could deal with adolescent drug use as a medical instead of a criminal problem.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)And is isn't true that adolescents have been ingesting THC at the rate and frequency we are seeing today with the advent of vape pens.
Lives are falling apart. We should not turn a blind eye to a serious mental and emotional health crisis that is happening as we speak.
It is a false proposition that anyone wants to treat this as a "criminal problem." The real issue is that marijuana proponents will NOT treat this as a medical problem. And it IS A PROBLEM. A big problem.
We need to get in front of this. Now.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Voltaire2
(12,618 posts)But if you read up on the data that is available you would, if you don't let your biases blind you, discover that there is no evidence that marijuana causes any of the problems cited in the article, that there are much better models that explain the correlation than the 'gateway drug' bullshit that Anslinger cooked up all on his own:
When Congress was first debating the bill that criminalized marijuana in 1937, Harry Anslingerthe godfather of the War on Drugsrejected any notion that marijuana use led to other drugs. During the marijuana hearings, Representative John Dingell asked Anslinger, I am just wondering whether the marijuana addict graduates into a heroin, an opium, or a cocaine user? Anslinger replied, No, sir. I have not heard of a case of that kind. I think it is an entirely different class. The marijuana addict does not go in that direction.
When the Cold War started, the narrative changed. As politicians mongered fear about communist takeovers, the narrative for marijuana use shifted to mirror Red Scare talking points. According to the domino theory, the Cold War was necessary because once one country fell to communism, the rest would supposedly fall. Although the domino analogy was originally proposed by President Dwight Eisenhower in 1954, the origins of the idea are found in the Truman Doctrine of the 1940s.
In 1951, Anslinger adapted this logic to cannabis in a complete contradiction of his 1937 statements. At the time, it was referred to as the progression theory or the stepping-stone thesis, before the term gateway drug gained currency. During the Boggs Act Hearings, Anslinger said, Over 50 percent of these young addicts started on marijuana smoking. They started there and graduated to heroin; they took the needle when the thrill of marihuana was gone.
https://mises.org/wire/gateway-drug-myth
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)We sure look to different sources.
and you are engaging in denialism that there are even a medical and emotional health problems that we need to deal with.
You are behind the curve on this one.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Voltaire2
(12,618 posts)Marijuanas placement in Schedule I did not happen in a vacuum, historians note. Overt racism, combined with New Deal reforms and bureaucratic self-interest are often blamed for the first round of federal cannabis prohibition under the Marihuana Tax Act of 1937, which restricted possession to those who paid a steep tax for a limited set of medical and industrial applications. (Cannabis was removed from the official U.S. Pharmacopeia in 1942.) In segregated America newspapers were saying, this stuff makes white women and black men have sex, notes historian Martin Lee, author of Smoke Signals: A Social History of Marijuana.
The American Medical Association initially opposed prohibition. Cannabis was medically useful, says William Woodward, association counsel. Congress being what it was at the time, you could ram things through just by bullshitting, Lee adds. Whos going to be stepping up to the plate [in 1937] to defend a drug that blacks, Latinos and jazz musicians use?
The Tax Act passed amid New Deal reforms, and the first marijuana peddlers were arrested and jailed that year. Science reared its head within a decade, though. In 1944 the La Guardia Committee report from the New York Academy of Medicine was the first in a long line of official bodies to question the prohibition. The committee found marijuana not physically addictive, not a gateway drug and that it did not lead to crime. But Harry Anslinger, head of the thenFederal Bureau of Narcotics, labeled the report unscientific and prohibition rolled on. Every 10 years since thenalthough were a bit off schedulesome august governing body has reviewed the data and come up with the same finding [against prohibition], Abrams says.
You should read the entire article. For example:
Researchers say this represents a classic catch-22, as the paucity of research is the direct result of a federal blockade on such research by the DEA and the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA). The reason we dont have more data is because its quite difficult to study. The only legal source of cannabis is NIDA, which has a Congressional mandate to only study its harms, Abrams says. Researchers also note that about two dozen countries including Israel, Canada and the Netherlands as well as several legalization states such as California and Colorado, have reams of scientific data on the safety and efficacy of smoked cannabis as well as other formulations. While NIDAs primary work focuses largely on studies involving drug abuse and addiction, the organization does fund some research on therapeutic uses for THC as well.*
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)If the effort was not about the profit motive, decriminalization instead of so called "legalization" would be in the forefront. It is about time a DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE calls this out and if it is Joe Biden, so be it,
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Aaron Pereira
(383 posts)I come from a state where it's legal. At first I supported legalization thinking it would make no difference but after watching a dramatic and sometimes negative effect in practice I'm having second thoughts.
I'd like to put the brakes on legalization at the federal level until we've had more time to study what's happening in legal states.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)Last edited Mon Nov 18, 2019, 12:13 AM - Edit history (1)
Alcohol is legal and we already know what it does. It gives people delusional tremors, hangovers, and it leads to violence.
Data on 1,887 convicted homicide offenders were examined to discern the relationships between alcohol and/or drug use and murder. Information obtained through confidential interviews at state prisons and local jails provided demographics and information on drinking and drug use immediately before the crime and relevant data on the offenders' typical drinking style. About 50 percent of the offenders were under the influence of alcohol at the time of the crime, similar to the rate found by other studies. Substance use was more prevalent than nonuse before the homicide: 36 percent used alcohol only, 13 percent used both alcohol and drugs, 7 percent used drugs only, and 43 percent did not use either. A heavier style of drinking is much more prevalent among homicide offenders than in the general population.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/004723529090002S
Also DUIs. You can tell people not to drink & drive but their judgment is impaired so they think they can still drive so DUIs happen.
As someone who doesn't like alcohol what should I do in a red state where a pot seed is a felony besides move?
On edit -- I wish someone was around to tell Nixon to put the brakes on the War on Drugs.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
obamanut2012
(25,906 posts)You and others are just making up Reefer Madness "facts."
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Aaron Pereira
(383 posts)I've observed changes since legalization and in my post I said I'd like the Federal Government to gather more facts in legalization states.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)People really don't understand cannabis at all.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)"terrible impacts" since marijuana was legalized?
In my state, WA, pot is legal and they haven't seen any pattern linking pot to an increase in crime.
And pot is still illegal for high school students, just like alcohol is. And students are smoking less pot since legalization.
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/health/washington-state-teens-are-toking-less-since-cannabis-was-legalized-new-study-says/
Cannabis use by teenagers in Washington has dropped since the drug was legalized in 2012, according to a study published Wednesday by the Journal of the American Medical Association.
The study comprised two years of data, from 2014-2016, and showed decreases in marijuana usage by teens in middle- and high school. Use among 8th graders dropped from 9.8 to 7.3 percent over that period and among 10th graders, use fell from 19.8 to 17.8 percent. Use by seniors remained flat at just over one in four students, 26.7 percent, during that period, according the study.
Legal age to consume marijuana in Washington is 21.
https://mynorthwest.com/1564141/wsu-study-crime-marijuana/?
The WSU study considered Washington and Colorado, as well as control states 21 states that did not legalize recreational or medical marijuana.
What we found essentially was that there was really no difference between Washington, Colorado and these states, Willits said. There are caveats we only looked at certain types of crime and marijuana has only been legal for a certain amount of time. But overall, we didnt find any consistent pattern of crime increasing or decreasing compared to the control states.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)and I think some activists have overshot with trying to paint it as a harmless miracle cure.
But, Biden is wrong on this because his exact rhetoric has been used for decades to systematically destroy lives using criminal laws.
We need to do a lot of work to have a better understanding of drug seeking and compulsive behaviors. In the meantime, people are dying from opioid overdoses more often in states that do not have legal marijuana and families are still suffering because of criminalization and mass incarceration.
The negative consequences of marijuana prohibition are a bigger problem than he seems to want to realize.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)Neither he (or I) think anyone should be in prison or jail over simple pot smoking.
But I see how badly legalization has gone here in CA. It was better by-far under the previous legalized medical marijuana laws that we had here. Under that plan any adult that wanted marijuana could get a "pot doctor" to write a prescription. 100%.
Fine by me.
Dispensaries were very tight about who they let in and who they sold herb. The business was pretty discrete. No one who wanted a legal source of cannabis products denied. No one was criminalized. Being "approved" for a script was simply a matter of paying a doctor's fee. The legal fiction worked pretty well.
Legalization for recreational use, in contrast, has been a nightmare. Illegal shops are everywhere. As are illegal delivery services. These criminal enterprises don't all sell to minors, but teens know who will.
We don't want lives destroyed in the criminal process, and I'm with you there.
But lives are also being destroyed due to heavy marijuana use by teens, who can get the stuff are more easily now compared with pre-2018.
That there are other drug crises--such as the opioid crisis--doesn't change the truth that we have a serious public health problem with marijuana abuse by teens. It is real. It is not "reefer madness."
We need to deal with the full spectrum of reality when it comes to marijuana.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)and is willing to rely on drug war rhetoric cannot credibly say they give a damn about people whose lives have been ruined by the inherently racist criminal justice process.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)He is clear that no one should be in jail for smoking pot.
He's also ahead of the curve for understanding that lives can also be ruined by drug abuse, especially adolescents who are especially at risk of addiction, altered brain development, academic failure (including high drop-out rates), cognitive impairment, lowered IQ, reduced achievement, and increased mental and emotional health issues due to heavy marijuana use.
Those who don't give seem to a damn about the real threats to America's youth don't deserve to be in positions of leadership in my estimation. We need to promote the general welfare for all our people, including the most vulnerable.
.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)he is willing to allow for criminalization.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)unleashing serous harm on our most vulnerable.
The situation here is seriously messed up and should serve as a cautionary tale to the rest of the country.
There has to be a better way. One that decriminalizes marijuana use, but doesn't sacrifice a large part of a generation in the process.
Biden gets this. Many of his rivals seem like they are seriously behind the curve.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)We are all behind the curve when it comes to fully understanding addiction. He is further behind because he's stuck in that era and criminality is a solution he still takes pride in.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)We do need to understand addiction. That's precisely Biden's message.
He is ahead of the curve. We need to be able to decriminalize pot w/o undermining the health and well being of a generation of young people.
Being able to do two things at once is the hallmark of the liberal Democratic Party.
Following CA's lead isn not a path forward. We've botched this badly.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
redqueen
(115,096 posts)it's all those other voters we need.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
redqueen
(115,096 posts)Not good.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)Society is already paying a huge price. It will only get worse.
Talk to staff in any high school where pot is legal or easily available. They will tell you the real story.
We have a generation in crisis.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
redqueen
(115,096 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
melman
(7,681 posts)Pot has been easily available for a long time.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)Kids are getting high at school and it is almost undetectable, except in failing grades and emotional health crises.
Laugh away.
You are dead wrong.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
melman
(7,681 posts)When I was in high school weed was everywhere. Totally easy to get..as was acid and everything else.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)Now there are some kids who even hit vape pens during classes.
You are not being real.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Jewls2
(218 posts)back then. It is like you and other opposing pot and wanting to use it as an excuse for the woes of our generation totally make up a scenario and state it as facts while many of us know otherwise thru actual experience.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
melman
(7,681 posts)then you are the one not being real.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)Then, there were a few fuck-ups who were getting stoned at school.
Vape technology has changed things dramatically. I'm listening to the people on the front lines in the schools.
You are not being real. Our young people will pay the costs of willful ignorance of reality.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
melman
(7,681 posts)Then there is no way kids weren't doing drugs when you were in school. None.
That kind of generation gap just isn't possible anymore.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)My generation had problems as well. They were more limited. Not many people lit up on the walks between classes. And we all knew who "the stoners" were, and we knew how well heavy pot smoking worked out for them.
These days many kids are hitting vape pens all day long. It is having a serious impact on their emotional and mental health and on their academic achievement.
Remember how well "the stoners" who got high at school fared when you were in school? I sure do.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)Do you realize plenty of productive people use cannabis.
Gateway drug is a myth and I can't believe I still see people peddling that horseshit at DU.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)Pot doesn't need to be a "gateway" drug," it has enough problems on its own terms.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)I have a disability from war but that isn't cannabis fault. The cannabis helps with the PTSD.
I went to high school in the early 2000s there weren't any stoner stereotypes like you saw in the movies. We had "stoners" on the football team.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JonAndKatePlusABird
(303 posts)Pot wasnt a problem, drinking was. Even during class. People would fill their nalgene water bottles with their mixed drink of choice.
Weed legalization is a dumb hill to die on, its called weed for a reason...
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)I think charging people with crimes over marijuana is dumb & much like alcohol prohibition it is counterproductive. It is better to regulate something than it is to ban it which drives it underground & makes it more dangerous. The black market is the gateway drug. It is better to buy cannabis at a store that also doesn't sell meth or heroin.
I'm willing to die on the hill of criminal justice reform & ending mass incarceration I believe cannabis legalization is part of that. I think the fact cannabis is a Schedule I drug is dumb.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
JonAndKatePlusABird
(303 posts)My final sentence of hill to die on was not well phrased. I was meaning it in the context of this thread, not the larger issue at hand.
Completely agree that making something illegal doesnt magically make it stop, all it does is drive it underground. Just very shortsighted (and Repub I might add) to outlaw something and then be surprised when people break said law.
Weed needs to be taken off the Schedule I list yesterday. If its a gateway for anything, its making people wonder what else is bullshit thats the experts are shoveling down my throat? We already have enough misinformation as it is, why are we adding to it by keeping weed Schedule I?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
sweetloukillbot
(10,788 posts)He also supports MMJ and decriminalizing possession.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
mike_c
(36,214 posts)...but I'm one of those students. I'm 64. I began smoking cannabis when I was 15, and I've done it ever since, including during high school, college, and grad school. Fifty years, smoking daily for many of them. I ended up with a great career in academic science and a decent retirement. Good times.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
progressoid
(49,825 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)That's a huge jump. I'd like to see the stats from places like CA where recreational marijuana is legal and where illegal dispensaries abound.
What I do know is that the schools here are calling pot use by high school students a crisis that is damaging young people's futures.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
progressoid
(49,825 posts)They're just substituting vaping for rolling or using a bong, etc.
The overall use of weed is basically flat over the last two decades.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)That's a huge part of the problem. Bong hits and smoking joints are not "stealthy."
In contrast, vaping is pretty discrete. That's leading to students using on campus, to their detriment.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
progressoid
(49,825 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)because it makes it very easy to vape on campus.
Young people can't learn well when they are stoned. Not possible.
Too bad that you are making light of a serious problem.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
progressoid
(49,825 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)Those who think marijuana use is without downsides are dead wrong, especially with young minds.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
progressoid
(49,825 posts)the end.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
progressoid
(49,825 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
obamanut2012
(25,906 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)you would have produced it by now. The 1930s called and they want their bullshit propaganda back.
FUD - Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
obamanut2012
(25,906 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Omg.
Btw, pot was easily available when I was in high school in the late 70s.
It wasnt legal then. Its still not legal in my state, but it was easier for us to buy pot than booze lol.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)But ignore reality. That will get us somewhere.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Jewls2
(218 posts)There are a lot of factors out there for issue with our younger generation. It is really simple to point the finger at pot, then an easy blame. Pot has not been legal that long in Ca. I would look more toward Colorado and Washington for information.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)I know what's going on in the local schools. To say that school teachers and staff are calling this a "crisis" is an understatement.
They are seeing significant social and mental health costs and a huge negative impact on academic success.
We ignore these red flags at our peril.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Jewls2
(218 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)These are people with nothing but the best intentions for their students. People who have dedicated themselves to bettering lives.
I listen when they tell us this is an extremely serious problem.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Jewls2
(218 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
obamanut2012
(25,906 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tenderfoot
(8,424 posts)Where are these students getting the money to buy it?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)We were sold on the notion that dispensaries would be licensed and highly regulated.
The reality is illegal pot shops abound.
Teachers and school staff are saying there is a servere crisis in the schools. It is having a very negative and unprecedented impact on students.
It saddens me that people people find that "funny."
It isn't the least bit funny.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tenderfoot
(8,424 posts)Because I'm not about to get all up in arms based on what you're saying because it sounds like scare-mongering "reefer madness" bee ess.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)Nor is it wise to lampoon those who share their experiences in the real world.
The toll rampant pot use is having on students has zero to do with "reefer madness" and everything to do with reality.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tenderfoot
(8,424 posts)The rampant toll...
GTFO
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to tenderfoot (Reply #160)
The Valley Below This message was self-deleted by its author.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)So you might want to look for other issues at work here.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)That doesn't change the facts on the ground.
Pot is everywhere and kids hear the message that using is "all good."
We are ignoring the damage. That's not smart.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Besides the fact, kids dont buy pot where theres an age check.
When I was in Washington State, I found no shortage of LEGAL dispensaries, and IDs were checked at each one I visited.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)This isn't a secret.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
cwydro
(51,308 posts)If we have a generation in crisis, its not to do with pot use.
Well have to agree to disagree here.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Jewls2
(218 posts)their future, pot is not the villain.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
obamanut2012
(25,906 posts)What you are saying is literally not factual. There is much less "street weed" available now. Your posts are laughable and RW Reefer Madness propo. I mean, for anyone who alerts, thsi is literally textbook Big Pharma/GOP anti-legalization propo. Literally.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)Here is the reality:
Nearly 3,000 illegal marijuana businesses found in California audit, dwarfing legal trade.
SACRAMENTO Californias black market for cannabis is at least three times the size of its regulated weed industry, according to an audit made public Wednesday, the latest indication of the states continued struggle to tame a cannabis economy that has long operated in legal limbo.
The audit, conducted by the United Cannabis Business Assn., found approximately 2,835 unlicensed dispensaries and delivery services operating in California. By comparison, only 873 cannabis sellers in the state are licensed, according to the Bureau of Cannabis Control.
The figures are the latest sign of Californias rocky rollout of its legal marketplace, which promised better regulations and control beginning in 2018. Legitimate marijuana businesses have repeatedly criticized state leaders and law enforcement for failing to curb unlicensed dispensaries and delivery services, which sell cannabis at a much lower price by skirting state and municipal cannabis taxes.
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-09-11/california-marijuana-black-market-dwarfs-legal-pot-industry
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Jewls2
(218 posts)under an ounce. Kids that wanted to smoke pot, smoked pot.
Visine worked the same then, as it does now.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Jewls2
(218 posts)Are you really under the illusion that there was this rosy non existing past of difficulty getting high reaching way back to the 60's?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)Taking a hit off a vape pen doesn't remotely compare.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Jewls2
(218 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)Makes me think you are not serious.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
melman
(7,681 posts)you are using lingo like "doobie" and "groovey" like you're Joe Friday on Dragnet.
And yet, in the next breath you say "hitting a vape pen" - I think this character needs more work.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)Book 'em Dano.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
melman
(7,681 posts)You've been here less than a week.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
melman
(7,681 posts)What's the key word?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)where you are coming from.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)Life long liberal Democrat!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)in our definition of liberal, but good on you for registering Democrat.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)since 1974 when I voted for Jerry Brown to be Governor of California the first time. I have voted a straight Democratic ticket in every election since then. It has been a long time since I needed to be welcomed to the Big Tent. Maybe try dialing back the condescension by a couple of orders of magnitude.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)I'd suggest following your own advice. Seriously.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
PhoenixDem
(581 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
obamanut2012
(25,906 posts)No one says that. Except for 2019 Joe Fridays.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)and you say doobie, groovy, and a total bust?
I call shenanigans.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)One kid, in 10th Grade.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ChubbyStar
(3,191 posts)You must be an expert!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)who deal with students every day.
I listen to people I know and trust when they tell us there is a huge problem.
I guess we are different that way?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ChubbyStar
(3,191 posts)But we are different.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Thekaspervote
(32,606 posts)There have been dozens of ridiculous threads, more ridiculous than this one about what Biden said or did, or didnt say or didnt do.
Change the title, bend the facts as to what he actually said and then you have the road rage race they want to engage in. Their preferred candidate is not the front runner and they want to tear the front runner down
Say what they want this is the truth of it
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
obamanut2012
(25,906 posts)You literally have no idea of what you are talking about.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)A toilet paper tube with a dryer sheet on the end covers the smell nicely.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Jewls2
(218 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
obamanut2012
(25,906 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)Totally tubular.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
cwydro
(51,308 posts)I was a tennis team kid, not really into pot, but even I knew friends who got high.
And yes, very cheap in those days.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)Quit your bullshit fear mongering.
MJ usage among teens is DOWN in places where its legal.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)You are ignoring reality.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)I read studies. You make stuff up. Totally different.
Take your fear mongering back to the 1980s, Nancy.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)Sure pal.
Your accusations of "fear-mongering" are false and, frankly, insulting.
We will deal with the repercussions of what's happening with heavy pot use by young people for a very long time.
You are out of step with reality. What a shame.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to The Valley Below (Reply #191)
Post removed
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Thekaspervote
(32,606 posts)In states where recreational marijuana is legal, problematic use increased among adults and teens
Date:
November 13, 2019
Source:
NYU Langone Health / NYU School of Medicine
Summary:
Problematic use of marijuana among adolescents and adults increased after legalization of recreational marijuana use, according to a new study from NYU Grossman School of Medicine and Columbia University Mailman School of Public Health.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/11/191113153049.htm
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Thekaspervote
(32,606 posts)Proves my point...so continue bashing ... last time I looked you are not changing anyones minds about who to vote for. If anything it has the reverse effect
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
obamanut2012
(25,906 posts)The PTA will have a website talking about this meeting -- link?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Thekaspervote
(32,606 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/12/11/following-marijuana-legalization-teen-drug-use-is-down-in-colorado/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/janetwburns/2019/08/28/federal-report-finds-teen-cannabis-use-is-still-down/
https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/07/08/health/recreational-marijuana-laws-teens-study/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/03/190318102423.htm
https://www.usnews.com/news/healthiest-communities/articles/2019-07-08/study-teen-use-of-marijuana-drops-in-states-where-it-is-legal
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,272 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)Glad the humor wasn't lost on you.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)Pot is the least of the kid's troubles in school these days. And yes I know a lot of people who were stoned throughout high school and they are just like everyone else I know.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)High School kids shouldn't have access to it, and no one is arguing any different.
Prohibition is harmful to society and has probably caused more school disruptions than legalization has. I suppose you aren't considering a child's parents getting locked up for a joint and how they are failing because of that, not because of a vape.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)according to those on the educational front lines.
Too much profit from getting kids hooked on drugs. We should be ashamed.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)You keep saying "Those on the front lines" but not supporting it, and as we all know, the plural of anecdote isn't data.
Besides, what makes it available to kids is it being black market where you can get it on the street, having it legal makes it controlled. they are sold in dispensaries which are very strongly controlled. I don't know if you've ever been in one, but it's not like anyone can get in, they all have high security and keep things very controlled.
Oh hey, here's an article about it, it shows that in states that it's legal underage usage has dropped:
https://www.usnews.com/news/healthiest-communities/articles/2019-07-08/study-teen-use-of-marijuana-drops-in-states-where-it-is-legal
So basically you are holding a stance, one that I share, but arguing for the side that will make that issue much worse, instead of helping it.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)Illegal shops abound. Plus illegal delivery services that often sell to kids. The shit is everywhere. No control.
If you think the pot industry is well regulated here, you are kidding yourself. Legal shops play my one set of rules--including paying taxes and fees, and regulating who makes purchases--but illegal suppliers are eating their lunch. Undercutting prices by evading taxes and fees, and sometimes selling to minors.
It is a mess.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
obamanut2012
(25,906 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)Then you can apologize anytime, OK? Because you are dead-wrong.
Nearly 3,000 illegal marijuana businesses found in California audit, dwarfing legal trade
SACRAMENTO Californias black market for cannabis is at least three times the size of its regulated weed industry, according to an audit made public Wednesday, the latest indication of the states continued struggle to tame a cannabis economy that has long operated in legal limbo.
The audit, conducted by the United Cannabis Business Assn., found approximately 2,835 unlicensed dispensaries and delivery services operating in California. By comparison, only 873 cannabis sellers in the state are licensed, according to the Bureau of Cannabis Control.
The figures are the latest sign of Californias rocky rollout of its legal marketplace, which promised better regulations and control beginning in 2018. Legitimate marijuana businesses have repeatedly criticized state leaders and law enforcement for failing to curb unlicensed dispensaries and delivery services, which sell cannabis at a much lower price by skirting state and municipal cannabis taxes.
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-09-11/california-marijuana-black-market-dwarfs-legal-pot-industry
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)that doesn't change literally anything about the conversation.
Can you post anything supporting your original point?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
stopdiggin
(11,090 posts)I stayed out of it until this:
And no doubt the pusher man is handing out "free samples" on the schoolyard to snare the little kiddies. Sorry .. this 1950s argument is just getting silly. Calling BS.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)I'm the one calling BS on that mendacity.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)Except on the black market, which you want to preserve.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)The legit shops are screaming bloody murder.
As I said, it is a mess.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)They all show up on apps like Weedmaps w/o differentiation.
Plus advertising is everywhere. Enforcement of any marijuana laws is nil.
And the kids are told by proponents that marijuana has nothing but upsides.
Why wouldn't use among teens go up in these circumstances?
It is causing a lot of harm.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LuckyCharms
(17,286 posts)I was the captain of the varsity crack team.
I was named the Vallavic Torian of my class.
I wrote the lyrics for the hugely popular (at the time) song "Bang a Gong".
The Rolling Stones invited me on stage during a live concert to play the drums when Ringo hurt his hand mid-performance and had to be rushed to the ER.
I ultimately became the Governor of a small state in the Yukon.
Not bad for a "stoner".
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
obamanut2012
(25,906 posts)So cool.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
obamanut2012
(25,906 posts)None are true.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Celerity
(42,645 posts)Pro tip, it is not 1967.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Celerity
(42,645 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Celerity
(42,645 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Celerity
(42,645 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
USALiberal
(10,877 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)I'm living in 2019 and seeing the vaping epidemic wreaking havoc among our youth.
Don't bury your head in the sand.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Buzz cook
(2,470 posts)His campaign is based on not offending anyone and that requires that he not take a strong position on anything.
My guess is that if elected he will follow Obama's lead on Marijuana.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Baked Potato
(7,733 posts)Thats a good start. Kids shouldnt drink or smoke weed. Thats a parenting issue.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
riversedge
(69,713 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
floppyboo
(2,461 posts)Hey man, i've also got this you might like.
And that's how it goes.
And that's the obvious factual truth.
Legalize it!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
lapucelle
(18,037 posts)The truth of the matter is, theres not nearly been enough evidence that has been acquired as to whether or not it is a gateway drug, the 2020 presidential candidate claimed at a town hall meeting in Las Vegas. Its a debate, and I want a lot more before I legalize it nationally. I want to make sure we know a lot more about the science behind it.
*******************************************************************************************
The majority of people who use marijuana do not go on to use other, harder substances. More research is needed to understand if marijuana is a gateway drug a drug that is thought to lead to the use of more dangerous drugs (such as cocaine or heroin).
https://www.cdc.gov/marijuana/faqs/does-marijuana-lead-to-other-drugs.html
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
aikoaiko
(34,127 posts)then I'd respect his position.
But there has been a lot of research on cannabis and its just not as dangerous as legal alcohol.
Trauma is the gateway to abusive use of drugs, not weed itself.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
MarcA
(2,195 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
lapucelle
(18,037 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)According to many studies, weed seems more like a filter that keep people away from stronger drugs than a stepping stone into life-destroying addiction.
As the 2016 election approaches, marijuana legalization is in the air once again, with ballot initiatives likely to succeed in at least five states, including California. As usual, politiciansincluding some presidential candidates, notably Carly Fiorinaare trying to turn back the tide by spreading fear that weed is a gateway to more dangerous drugs. But research increasingly shows not only that the "gateway" theory is incorrect, but that weed may actually help people with addictions stop taking other drugs, rather than start.
On the surface, the gateway idea seems reasonable enough. After all, there are almost no heroin users who didn't start their illegal drug use with marijuana, and marijuana smokers are 104 times more likely to use cocaine than those haven't tried weed.
Yet as scientists constantly remind us, correlation isn't the same thing as causation. For example, the number of people killed annually by dogs correlates almost perfectly with the growth in online revenue on Black Friday. And the rise in autism diagnoses is strongly correlated with the growth in sales of organic food. It's technically possible that some third factor causes both of these apparently haphazard connections. However, it's completely implausible that these connections are causal, and odds are that the links are due to random chance.
In terms of marijuana's specific correlation with other drug use, slightly less than half of Americans over 12 have tried marijuana, while less than 15 percent have taken cocaine and less than 2 percent used heroin, according to the latest National Household Survey on Drug Use and Health. Even smaller portions go on to become addicted to those drugs: Typically, only 10 to 20 percent of those who try alcohol and other drugs get hooked.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vice.com/amp/en_us/article/9bgn7a/why-marijuana-is-not-a-gateway-drug-1013
I'm worried about comments from Biden because myths like that has led to boneheaded drug policy and I worry about those using cannabis to stay off hard drugs being harmed from policies that come from myths.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
lapucelle
(18,037 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)It says "may" be a link. It was government that made marijuana a schedule I drug so perhaps they are behind the times?
----
These findings are consistent with the idea of marijuana as a "gateway drug." However, the majority of people who use marijuana do not go on to use other, "harder" substances. Also, cross-sensitization is not unique to marijuana. Alcohol and nicotine also prime the brain for a heightened response to other drugs52 and are, like marijuana, also typically used before a person progresses to other, more harmful substances.
It is important to note that other factors besides biological mechanisms, such as a persons social environment, are also critical in a persons risk for drug use. An alternative to the gateway-drug hypothesis is that people who are more vulnerable to drug-taking are simply more likely to start with readily available substances such as marijuana, tobacco, or alcohol, and their subsequent social interactions with others who use drugs increases their chances of trying other drugs. Further research is needed to explore this question.
https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/marijuana/marijuana-gateway-drug
Research simply does not support the theory that
marijuana is a gateway drug that is, one whose use
results in an increased likelihood of using more
serious drugs such as cocaine and heroin. However,
this flawed gateway effect is one of the principal
reasons cited in defense of laws prohibiting the use or
possession of marijuana. *cough* Joe Biden *cough*
Research shows that marijuana could more
accurately be described as a terminus drug
because the vast majority of people who use
marijuana do not go on to use other illicit drugs.1,2
Marijuana has never been proven to have an actual
gateway effect.3 However, a more critical interpretation
of this and further research suggests that those who use
drugs may instead have an underlying propensity to do
so that is not specific to any one drug.4,5,6
Significant amounts of research as well as measures
implemented in other countries suggest that there are
far more effective and less harmful strategies for
decreasing youth use of marijuana and reducing the
potential harms of other illicit drug use than using the
gateway myth as a scare tactic. New evidence
suggests that marijuana can even serve as an exit
drug, helping people to reduce or eliminate their use
of more harmful drugs such as opiates or alcohol by
easing withdrawal symptoms.
https://www.drugpolicy.org/sites/default/files/DebunkingGatewayMyth_NY_0.pdf
Marijuana continues to be the most commonly used illicit drug according to the 2012 National Survey on Drug Use and Health (NSDUH) report. It is also the third most popular recreational drug in the United States, behind alcohol and tobacco. Based on the latest estimates, upwards of 24 million people have used marijuana, with 14 million using it regularly, yet misinformation about marijuana abounds.
Marijuana is not a gateway drug. People who have tried marijuana may eventually go on to try harder drugs in search of a stronger high, and experimentation may lead them down a dangerous path toward addiction. However, the science shows overwhelmingly that for most people marijuana is not a gateway drug.
Many people mistakenly believe that marijuana use precedes rather than follows initiation of other illicit drug use. In fact, most drug use begins with alcohol and nicotine before marijuana, making nicotine and alcohol the two most common drugs of abuse. Evidence indicates marijuana is usually not the first substance abused before more dangerous illicit drug experimentation.
A study published in the peer-reviewed Journal of School Health has concluded that the theory of a gateway drug is not associated with marijuana, but rather one of the most damaging and socially accepted drugs in the world, alcohol. The findings from this investigation support that alcohol should receive primary attention in abuse prevention programming, since the use of other substances could be impacted by delaying or preventing alcohol use.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/ending-addiction-good/201408/marijuana-the-gateway-drug-myth
Alcohol was my first drug followed by nicotine.
Marijuana is not, repeat, a Gateway drug
Most of the research linking marijuana to harder drug use comes from the correlation between the two. However, as any junior scientist can tell you, correlation does not mean causation.
Correlation is a first step. A correlation can be positive or negative; it can be weak or strong. And it never means a cause unless a rational reason for causality is found.
The brain disease model, which describes changes in the brain during the progression from drug use to addiction, currently gets a lot of attention as a potential causal link of the gateway theory. For example, in a 2014 article, neuroscientist Dr Jodi Gilman reported that even a little marijuana use was associated with "exposure-dependent alterations of the neural matrix of core reward systems" in the brains of young marijuana users. The reasoning goes that this would predispose them to use other drugs.
But other researchers were quick to point out the flaws of the Gilman study, such as a lack of careful controls for alcohol and other drug use by those whose brains were studied. Nonetheless, Dr Gilman's research continues to be cited in the news media, while its critics are ignored.
In another study supporting the gateway theory, the authors admit to limitations in their study: that they excluded younger cocaine users from the analysis, as well as older cocaine users who had never used marijuana. This means that those cases that might provide evidence of no gateway effect were left out of the analysis.
https://www.newsweek.com/marijuana-not-gateway-drug-325358
I will post more.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
lapucelle
(18,037 posts)is a gateway drug.
On matters of medical science and addiction disease, I tend to trust the CDC on whether or not we need further research.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Voltaire2
(12,618 posts)No. But meanwhile hows about we stop putting poor people in prison for pot?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
lapucelle
(18,037 posts)According to many studies, weed seems more like a filter that keep people away from stronger drugs than a stepping stone into life-destroying addiction.
snip=================================================================================
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/9bgn7a/why-marijuana-is-not-a-gateway-drug-1013
https://upload.democraticunderground.com/1287348505#post273
Unless, of course, those who assert that "many studies prove that Gateway Drug is a myth" still want further study.
Which, of course, would mean that their assertion is not truly "proven".
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Jewls2
(218 posts)That is why this is an important issue that Joe needs to address.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)if they start using heavily in high school.
That's the problem.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Jewls2
(218 posts)But emotional reaction to pot, for whatever reason. If I am not hearing an even stronger outcry with alcohol and the detrimental, long term damage to both kids and adults affecting so many loved ones and their future, then it is clear your perspective on pot is skewed.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)Those are the facts.
They are also having unprecedented levels of mental and emotional health issues that are negatively impacting their success.
My understanding of what's going on is spot on. I listen to the people on the front lines of this crisis.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)in California how many students have dropped out of school as a direct result of a marijuana habit? At what age did they begin to use marijuana? How much marijuana do they use? What are the ways they use marijuana, smoking, vaping, edibles, other? Are there any other possible drivers?
I ask this because I don't believe you have any information outside of where your children go to school and that information as you relate it here has yet to convince me and it seems, quite a few others.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)My kid is in a very typical LAUSD high school. I know the teachers and administrators. They are awesome liberal-minded people. These are not reactionaries or people with axes-to-grind.
They are sending up red-flags. Emphatically so. And it is not an isolated case of one "problem" school, but is the same problem as seen in the rest of the district.
We can ignore real problems as they emerge. Not a good idea in my estimation.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)and the only thing you have to prove marijuana is the sole or even dominant problem is a strongly held opinion. I'm not saying that we should ignore a problem I just don't think you have shown enough evidence to make the case there is a problem or that marijuana is the root of it.
I'm not willing to go back to the days of marijuana use being criminalized. People have spent, are spending, decades in prison for simple possession. No laws to allow recreational marijuana use have ever included minors. In California the law prohibits recreational use by persons under 21. I presume that covers the high school students in question. It is already prohibited by law for the population you speak of it seems a reasonable person would want nothing more than better enforcement of the existing laws.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)before.
So when people I trust and admire tell me (and the entire community of parents) that they are witnessing a huge problem across the district with mental and emotional health problems and failing academics, I listen.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)is the main problem for these struggling students what action do you think is warranted beyond stronger enforcement of existing law?
I want to make it clear I don't agree with your premise, but I think the next question is more important.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)with young people about the negative impacts of marijuana use has on young minds. That's not a message that penetrating now.
That's not "reefer madness"--and such talk is part of the problem. If adults can't deal with reality our children will suffer.
The people who could make a difference are equating genuine concerns with "trolling."
That's a shame.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)That is just peddling more horseshit for children.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)is what's horseshit for the children.
We should be honest with our young people.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)According to many studies, weed seems more like a filter that keep people away from stronger drugs than a stepping stone into life-destroying addiction.
As the 2016 election approaches, marijuana legalization is in the air once again, with ballot initiatives likely to succeed in at least five states, including California. As usual, politiciansincluding some presidential candidates, notably Carly Fiorinaare trying to turn back the tide by spreading fear that weed is a gateway to more dangerous drugs. But research increasingly shows not only that the "gateway" theory is incorrect, but that weed may actually help people with addictions stop taking other drugs, rather than start.
On the surface, the gateway idea seems reasonable enough. After all, there are almost no heroin users who didn't start their illegal drug use with marijuana, and marijuana smokers are 104 times more likely to use cocaine than those haven't tried weed.
Yet as scientists constantly remind us, correlation isn't the same thing as causation. For example, the number of people killed annually by dogs correlates almost perfectly with the growth in online revenue on Black Friday. And the rise in autism diagnoses is strongly correlated with the growth in sales of organic food. It's technically possible that some third factor causes both of these apparently haphazard connections. However, it's completely implausible that these connections are causal, and odds are that the links are due to random chance.
In terms of marijuana's specific correlation with other drug use, slightly less than half of Americans over 12 have tried marijuana, while less than 15 percent have taken cocaine and less than 2 percent used heroin, according to the latest National Household Survey on Drug Use and Health. Even smaller portions go on to become addicted to those drugs: Typically, only 10 to 20 percent of those who try alcohol and other drugs get hooked.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vice.com/amp/en_us/article/9bgn7a/why-marijuana-is-not-a-gateway-drug-1013
Do you need more links proving Gateway Drug is one of the oldest myths. Fear mongering leads people to realize it is benign and it really is compared to the legal drug alcohol.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Jewls2
(218 posts)who talks about having kids. Just yesterday, I listened to a pod conversation with young adults saying no to kids. There are so many factors with our youth today that no generation has been raised on and are experiencing and the fear for their future. Yet, with all the crisis's our youth face, with the corruption they see, with the political mess they are being raised with, with the break up and dysfunction of family, with the greater divide between wealth and poor and loss of the middle class, you raise the red flag and hail the hysteria of the legalization of pot. Gotta say, sounds short sighted and I have a tough time believing educated progressives of Calif are on board with the sky is falling, pot argument.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)My kids school arguably has the most progressive program for student in our massive district. These teachers and councilors have no reason to lie about what they are seeing.
They are sending up legitimate red-flags.
Calling this "hysteria" is supremely unwise.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Jewls2
(218 posts)Pot is not the issue.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Jewls2
(218 posts)As I said, I am almost exclusively around the 20 somethings and in all that they are experiencing, seeing and learning is ignored, as excuses. That is sad. But, whatever. One small cog in the wheel.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)Adolescents will always have issues and will need support. Who is saying otherwise?
But drug-abuse (which includes heavy pot smoking) adds a serious additional burden for young people to carry.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Jewls2
(218 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)I see the problem young people are having due to heavy pot consumption and I don't dismiss that reality one bit.
Too bad you are so dismissive. You are way behind the curve is acknowledging a real problem .
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Voltaire2
(12,618 posts)the huge cost of teen pot smoking. Lets see the numbers.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Voltaire2
(12,618 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Voltaire2
(12,618 posts)last year, disproportionately affecting people of color. As long as marijuana is illegal to possess we will continue to help people who use pot by giving them criminal records.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)And if we do legalize pot, don't we have a duty to get real with those who are most vulnerable?
Those who blow off real problems as "refer madness" are way behind the curve.
We are facing massive social costs due to the exponential use of pot by young people.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Voltaire2
(12,618 posts)It is a binary choice. Possession is either an arrestable offense or it isnt.
Biden does not support legalization. At the federal level possession can get you a year in jail.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
obamanut2012
(25,906 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)the evidence clearly indicates that long-term marijuana use can lead to addiction. Indeed, approximately 9% of those who experiment with marijuana will become addicted3 (according to the criteria for dependence in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, 4th edition [DSM-IV]). The number goes up to about 1 in 6 among those who start using marijuana as teenagers and to 25 to 50% among those who smoke marijuana daily.4 According to the 2012 National Survey on Drug Use and Health, an estimated 2.7 million people 12 years of age and older met the DSM-IV criteria for dependence on marijuana, and 5.1 million people met the criteria for dependence on any illicit drug1 (8.6 million met the criteria for dependence on alcohol1). There is also recognition of a bona fide cannabis withdrawal syndrome5 (with symptoms that include irritability, sleeping difficulties, dysphoria, craving, and anxiety), which makes cessation difficult and contributes to relapse."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4827335/
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pangaia
(24,324 posts)Nothing else I can say..
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
flying_wahini
(6,522 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
mike_c
(36,214 posts)It's misinformed, it's a clear instance of the Dunning-Kruger effect, and it directly contradicts the experience of millions of Americans. It perpetuates the disasterous war on drugs that primarily affects the most vulnerable American communities. It feeds the prison-industrial complex and contributes to mass incarceration.
I live in northern California, in the middle of the emerald triangle. Biden's attitude would be laughable if it didn't damage so many people's lives. The war on drugs is a war on Americans.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
redqueen
(115,096 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Uncle Joe
(58,111 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
JudyM
(29,122 posts)If Joe wants to be viewed as knowledgeable, he needs to get up to speed on this.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,272 posts)Havent seen you around in a while! Nice to see you!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
mike_c
(36,214 posts)I had to take a break after 2016. I was just too damned angry to be civil.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
tirebiter
(2,520 posts)>states should be able to make a judgement to legalize marijuana. I think thats OK, he said.
I preferred the Med marijuana time. We could get higher dosage. Currently it provides jobs for my kids at all levels of production and sales. This issue is settled.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
redqueen
(115,096 posts)It has to be removed & decriminalized. Period.
If alcohol and tobacco aren't considered dangerous enough to be classified as a controlled substance than cannabis shouldn't be either.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
randr
(12,408 posts)That is why his age matters. He is a fossil who has not learned a thing over the past decade
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Jewls2
(218 posts)We have another up in the polls after an heart attack and heart damage, asking to be in an highly stressing position at a crucial time in our history.
I am old. Age matters. I know.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
treestar
(82,383 posts)on marijuana.
It is odd that people assume that young voters are so focused on legalizing pot.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)Colorado, Washington, Oregon, Michigan got Democrats elected with progressive ballot issues.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Doreen
(11,686 posts)We have all had some type of opioid before we were old enough to be aware of cannabis. Take someone who has been addicted to opioids off and they might find something that gives the same results. I think some of the legal pharmacutical drugs are the gateway drugs.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JudyM
(29,122 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
budkin
(6,688 posts)Unbelievable.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
duforsure
(11,882 posts)He's lost in the past on this , and the majority of the American people are for legalized MJ, especially for Medical, so this statement will only lose him votes, and should. He should speak to others who support full legalization . In the primaries I won't support him , and know too many people that have used without going on to heavy drugs, and if he really looks into it , he will maybe change his position, but he's on the losing side on this issue. Has the alcohol industry or prisons for profit industry given him funds for his campaign? Does he realize there are thousands of studies proving the huge benefits of medical use? The government right now supplies people every month for their medical conditions. He can look into studies done at UCLA where a lung specialist Dr. Donald Tashkin did a government backed long term study and proved MJ slightly lowered cancer. Big pharma could also be in politicians pockets . His gateway drug position isn't backed by evidence. He's out of touch on this surprisingly.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Newest Reality
(12,712 posts)Can we please be allowed to recover from decades of hysterical propaganda that had a basis in racist and corporate interests?
Really. Gateway is an invention to vilify a substance, generally speaking. There are far more factors involved in a person's involvement and progression into heavy drugs and addiction. I mean, Big Phrama can be called an ultimate, institutionalized gateway if you want to go down that route.
And, as many ask, how is criminalization any kind of solution, anyway? So, a culture vilifies a substance and then ruins your entire life and affects your family, etc., in a profoundly disruptive and destructive way, "for your own good?" That's really regressive thinking and Mr. Biden should get a handle on where we are at now. We are still paying the costs of a drug war that is on the people more than it is on the substances and that's backwards and hazardous to our society.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
saidsimplesimon
(7,888 posts)You failed to stand up for Anita Hill.
Don't lecture me on the merits of medical marijuana. Ya don't want me to go biblical on ya.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Thekaspervote
(32,606 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
jmowreader
(50,447 posts)The most significant gateway drug is nicotine, which is legal.
Think about it! Recall all the drug users in your life. Did any of them NOT start their drug careers by smoking cigarettes?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)My parents smoked cigarettes, so if I used cogs to cover up my pot consumption.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
jayschool2013
(2,309 posts)he becomes the front-runner in the 1948 election.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
obamanut2012
(25,906 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Sapient Donkey
(1,568 posts)This seems to be mostly generational and I think it's safe to say his opinion on this isn't gonna be one that sticks around for long. Like I don't smoke pot or do any drugs, but am 100% for legalization of it. That being said, not every candidate will see everything the way I see things. What's important to me is that if he becomes president I don't think he would get in the way of its legalization. I would also wonder if it would be possible to change his mind on it.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MustLoveBeagles
(11,563 posts)I don't agree with him on this but it doesn't change my support of him.
This^
I think so. I don't think he's as stuck in the past as many seem to think.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
okieinpain
(9,397 posts)I would vote for joe Biden. Having said that but joe Biden needs to go home.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Thekaspervote
(32,606 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)Cannabis is not a gateway drug.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Maven
(10,533 posts)Which can be said about a number of his positions.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
progressoid
(49,825 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
SamKnause
(13,037 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Maven
(10,533 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,272 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Response to progressoid (Reply #266)
Chin music This message was self-deleted by its author.
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
progressoid
(49,825 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Voltaire2
(12,618 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
progressoid
(49,825 posts)Some sort of locker...
A foot locker.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Voltaire2
(12,618 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
progressoid
(49,825 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Voltaire2
(12,618 posts)It didn't work. I think I have too much heroin in there.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
samnsara
(17,570 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
dflprincess
(28,057 posts)Not to mention dated and out of touch.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,110 posts)Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Laffy Kat
(16,354 posts)It doesn't really bother me that much. In so many ways, he's sort of like a stereotypical grandfather. I could overlook it and will overlook it if he is the nominee. Both my adult children are opposed to weed legalization for the same reason as Biden, while I voted for the legalization here in Colorado. Go figure.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
applegrove
(118,012 posts)Last edited Mon Nov 18, 2019, 04:43 PM - Edit history (1)
to get it. We have legal cannabis in canada. The data is not all in. But illegal buying has not gone down that much.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Thekaspervote
(32,606 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)because I would have to find an adult to go down to the store and buy booze while a pot dealer may not mind selling to a teenager. It was also illegal in all 50 states before medical marijuana was legalized in a single state.
I'd rather live in Canada than Arizona where a pot seed is a felony. Cannabis users in Canada should consider themselves lucky.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
obamanut2012
(25,906 posts)Links up thread.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to aikoaiko (Original post)
Chin music This message was self-deleted by its author.
Thekaspervote
(32,606 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to Thekaspervote (Reply #341)
Chin music This message was self-deleted by its author.
Thekaspervote
(32,606 posts)There is a lot of talk out there on where I stand when it comes to our marijuana laws. Here are the facts:
View image on Twitter
Link to tweet
/photo/1
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to Thekaspervote (Reply #531)
Chin music This message was self-deleted by its author.
A HERETIC I AM
(24,320 posts)After reading through a significant portion of this train wreck, I began to hear the posts of one particular individual in the voice of this guy;
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Autumn
(44,748 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Celerity
(42,645 posts)Pitbull FTW!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
4bucksagallon
(975 posts)Dreamless sleep was what I needed more than anything and it filled the bill.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Voltaire2
(12,618 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
progressoid
(49,825 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
DesertRat
(27,995 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Voltaire2
(12,618 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
redqueen
(115,096 posts)Which explains the article below. And also which this gateway stuff will definitely not help.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/nov/15/joe-biden-supporters-millennials-youth-vote
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
DesertRat
(27,995 posts)in one form or another.
The only weed gateway I acknowledge is to snacking.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
redqueen
(115,096 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
MFM008
(19,776 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
duforsure
(11,882 posts)Well he's wrong on this, and another costly mistake. He should be talking about the opioid crisis, and how republican members of Congress were paid to get some of big pharma's dangerously addictive products they lied about in their getting approved on, passed with republicans helping, and killed thousands of people. Doctors were bribed into pushing these drugs , dangerously addictive drugs, which led to their severe addictions, and many deaths. That should be what he pushes, not a decades old debunked notion the majority of the American people know is very false and misleading. If he isn't sure, it makes him look out of touch with this issue, and shows he's not adequately doing his homework on this.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
RhodeIslandOne
(5,042 posts)Why is he like this?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DesertRat
(27,995 posts)If youre not an addict, weed is nothing to worry about.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
redqueen
(115,096 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
get the red out
(13,459 posts)I think this is BS. There are probably a lot more "gateway circumstances" like poverty, abuse abandonment etc than any particular "gateway drug".
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
EmInColorado
(31 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
still_one
(91,945 posts)drugs leading to toxicity of those drugs.
As with any drug there are potential side effects.
The Side effects associated with use of marijuana is dependent on the individual. Everyone is different What is perfectly fine for some may not be for someone else.
https://www.rxlist.com/consumer_medical_marijuana_cannabis/drugs-condition.htm
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
aikoaiko
(34,127 posts)...about their cannabis.
Right now there are probably millions of people who don't tell their doctors that they use cannabis because of insurance or legal worries.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
obamanut2012
(25,906 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BlueJac
(7,838 posts)Wake up Joe
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
obamanut2012
(25,906 posts)Do not get his "Reefer Madness" cannabis myths defense. Especially at a time when many, many states have legalized cannabis in some way.
And, the "Gateway Drug" trope is literally a Right Wing trope. WHY, JOE?!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DesertRat
(27,995 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Still In Wisconsin
(4,450 posts)...oh yeah, and
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
LonePirate
(13,386 posts)This should be disqualifying.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
revmclaren
(2,488 posts)Are you actually saying the rights of a woman to control her own body are the same as the right to recreationaly smoke pot!!
OMFG!!!
Self delete buddy.
ONLY!!! 2019 and beyond.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LonePirate
(13,386 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Mouth
(3,123 posts)Last edited Mon Nov 18, 2019, 09:22 PM - Edit history (1)
Disqualifying in that it's SO FUCKING STUPID it should disqualify him from the primary.
Obviously, even a gaffe prone, prison loving, drug warrior is better than cheeto benito, but I'll work like hell against him now in the primary.
Just. Fucking . Stupid.
Go home, joe, you're past your expiration date. this is damn near a deal killer for any hopes of getting the people I know who are usually apathetic out to vote.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
LonePirate
(13,386 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Mouth
(3,123 posts)I've even defended the need to run a centrist candidate on terms of sheer electability. But to me, anyone against legalization is a stupid fucking asshole, I don't care if it's a relative or someone who is treated like their shit doesn't stink.
Joe is now second to last on my list.
Anyone against full legalization is a fucking knucklehead.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)Man, oh man.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tman
(983 posts)Against Trump, this is an extremely bad policy to take and will supress the youth vote.
I'm begining to think Trump has a great shot at relelection.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to tman (Reply #476)
tman This message was self-deleted by its author.
peacebuzzard
(5,124 posts)The regularization of the cannabis industry would be very beneficial for income and tax generation for the U.S.
It would solve many issues, too many to go into, and the financial boom would be a godsend.
Not to mention many health problems would have solutions and be addressed. But, like anything, there will be abuse in the system, over-abuse and necessary controls similar to the alcohol industry.
But the benefits would far outweigh the drawbacks.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Celerity
(42,645 posts)anyone in our Party will follow, I fear. Why even bring this shit up with such a ham-fisted answer I do not know. Also, from most all I have seen, weed as a gateway drug is basically a RW trope nowadays.
OF all the golden oldies for Biden to recycle, 'Joe as arch drug warrior' is not a good one to trot out, re-tune/de-tune slightly and spit-shine for the 2020's. It is not helpful at all for our general election chances.
Joe Bidens long record supporting the war on drugs and mass incarceration, explained
Biden was a major Democratic leader in spearheading Americas war on drugs during the 1980s and 90s.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/4/25/18282870/joe-biden-criminal-justice-war-on-drugs-mass-incarceration
At the Democratic debate on Wednesday night, Democratic candidates ranging from Cory Booker to Julián Castro hit Joe Biden for his long, punitive record on criminal justice. Bidens record puts him at sharp odds with where Democrats are today: He has one of the most punitive, tough on crime records on criminal justice issues within the 2020 field more so than even opponents Kamala Harris or Amy Klobuchar, both of whom have also been criticized for their records. In fact, Biden was at the center of building federal policies that escalated the war on drugs and mass incarceration.
Quite frankly, the presidents plan is not tough enough, bold enough, or imaginative enough to meet the crisis at hand, he said. He called not just for harsher punishments for drug dealers but to hold every drug user accountable. Bushs plan, Biden added, doesnt include enough police officers to catch the violent thugs, not enough prosecutors to convict them, not enough judges to sentence them, and not enough prison cells to put them away for a long time a direct call for more incarceration.
As the head of the Senate Judiciary Committee in the late 1980s and early 90s, Biden did not just support the war on drugs and mass incarceration; he wrote many of the laws that helped build a punitive criminal justice system. That included measures that enacted more incarceration, more prisons, and tougher prison sentences for drug offenses, particularly crack cocaine.
snip
sigh
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Thekaspervote
(32,606 posts)Link to tweet
/photo/1
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Celerity
(42,645 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
The Mouth
(3,123 posts)"Bushs plan, Biden added, doesnt include enough police officers to catch the violent thugs, not enough prosecutors to convict them, not enough judges to sentence them, and not enough prison cells to put them away for a long time"
SMH.
Weed as a gateway drug is right up there with Planned Parenthood selling baby parts and Welfare Queens driving Cadillacs as far as being not just a right wing trope but a nutcase jack boot licking right wing trope.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
tishaLA
(14,176 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
DesertRat
(27,995 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Tarc
(10,472 posts)but rather Bernie and Liz. He is very out of step on this issue for 2019
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to aikoaiko (Original post)
Chin music This message was self-deleted by its author.
Gothmog
(143,999 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
aikoaiko
(34,127 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Gothmog
(143,999 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Thekaspervote
(32,606 posts)Link to tweet
/photo/1
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(143,999 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NCLefty
(3,678 posts)YMMV.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
LeftTurn3623
(628 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Cartaphelius
(868 posts)Mary Jane is and has always been a Gateway Drug.
A Gateway to better sex!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,110 posts)Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
aikoaiko
(34,127 posts)thank you.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Cartaphelius
(868 posts)a good ole orgasm but lulz is good, I hope.
LOL
oxoxoxox
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
betsuni
(25,122 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to aikoaiko (Original post)
rayshow Spam deleted by MIR Team