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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
 

Gothmog

(144,005 posts)
Fri Nov 8, 2019, 05:13 PM Nov 2019

Exclusive: Economist who backed Warren healthcare plan has doubts about her wealth tax




- A leading economist who vouched for Democratic presidential candidate Elizabeth Warren’s healthcare reform plan told Reuters on Thursday he doubts its staggering cost can be fully covered alongside her other government programs.

Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody’s Analytics, also voiced skepticism that the wealth tax provision in Warren’s plan - a key funding mechanism - will produce predicted levels of revenue because those targeted by the tax will seek to dodge it.....

Zandi said despite signing a highly touted letter last week backing the calculations for Warren’s Medicare for All plan, he does not support shifting Americans off the private health insurance they have in favor of a single-payer, government-run regime.

“I am not a fan of Medicare for All,” said Zandi, who is not affiliated with any Democratic presidential campaign and does not speak for the Warren campaign. “We have 160 million people who have private insurance and are pretty happy with what they have. Why change that?"
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
63 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Exclusive: Economist who backed Warren healthcare plan has doubts about her wealth tax (Original Post) Gothmog Nov 2019 OP
8% payroll Tax needed to fund MFA ritapria Nov 2019 #1
Payroll taxes are regressive...and we already pay too much. Demsrule86 Nov 2019 #3
Savings from MFA outweigh increase in Payroll Taxes ritapria Nov 2019 #7
You know what's really regressive? Premiums, copays and deductibles. Hassin Bin Sober Nov 2019 #15
I don't find this surprising...what is surprising is Warren's doubling down on this....a losing Demsrule86 Nov 2019 #2
Yes, people love their health insurance! (sarcasm) Red Oak Nov 2019 #6
Yeah I love mine. Loki Liesmith Nov 2019 #16
We must work to change this through regulation and bringing down costs. Single payer will also emmaverybo Nov 2019 #27
I'm not crazy about our health insurance system. Happy Hoosier Nov 2019 #54
"I am not a fan of Medicare for All," said Zandi crazytown Nov 2019 #4
No chit. She can't pay for it all in reality and too many voters won't fall for it. Hoyt Nov 2019 #5
You bet! Red Oak Nov 2019 #8
A Public Option will get us there much quicker than Hoyt Nov 2019 #11
How are we going to pay for a public option!?!??11? Hassin Bin Sober Nov 2019 #17
PO is cheaper and more likely to pass. But, nice that you admit Hoyt Nov 2019 #19
CEO of America's Health Insurance Plans: Biden's healthcare plan is not much different from MFA BeyondGeography Nov 2019 #20
It's significantly different in that people can choose. Hoyt Nov 2019 #21
Of course it's different, the point is it will be lobbied against just as hard BeyondGeography Nov 2019 #22
A pubic option does not cost much Gothmog Nov 2019 #37
Lol. The Public option doesn't cost much but is ranked with MFA as "low cost and high quality"? Hassin Bin Sober Nov 2019 #40
Building on the ACA is the best way to go in the real world Gothmog Nov 2019 #41
Didn't you just post something showing that system as highest cost and lower quality? Hassin Bin Sober Nov 2019 #42
No Gothmog Nov 2019 #43
"This is troubling for Bernie." LanternWaste Nov 2019 #47
Can we please stop with this "real world" shit? Act_of_Reparation Nov 2019 #48
Can you explain how Warren's plan will be adopted in the real world? Gothmog Nov 2019 #50
Have you tried asking her? Act_of_Reparation Nov 2019 #51
I sat three rows behind Senator Warren at the National Convention but the issue never came up Gothmog Nov 2019 #52
Surely can write her. Act_of_Reparation Nov 2019 #53
I am working to turn Texas blue Gothmog Nov 2019 #55
I thought you were concerned about how we were going to pay for it. Act_of_Reparation Nov 2019 #56
Medicare for All at the top of the ticket in 2020 will lose us the House. Gothmog Nov 2019 #57
Your position was clear the first time. Act_of_Reparation Nov 2019 #58
Warren's latest health plan is causing concerns for some centrist, moderate and rural Democrats Gothmog Nov 2019 #63
A public-option plan is the best way to go Gothmog Nov 2019 #44
This message was self-deleted by its author Gothmog Nov 2019 #45
From Jared Bernstein Gothmog Nov 2019 #46
Totally agree. okieinpain Nov 2019 #60
No country has a plan like the proposed M4A dansolo Nov 2019 #30
The rest of the industrialized nations pay much more tax than we do. And they tried wealth emmaverybo Nov 2019 #31
She will pay for it by 'Economic Pariotism' crazytown Nov 2019 #9
Yeah, treat foreign workers like scabs. EP and America First Hoyt Nov 2019 #10
Popular in the Midwest crazytown Nov 2019 #12
Yep, bashing foreigners and minorities is popular in red states. Hoyt Nov 2019 #14
This is one of the reasons why DETAILS are needed. George II Nov 2019 #13
Exactly! peggysue2 Nov 2019 #25
the real story here is billionaires will do everything to avoid this tax. Kurt V. Nov 2019 #18
Totally agree. okieinpain Nov 2019 #61
Her wealth tax probably won't see the light of day and most of her plans revolve around it. FloridaBlues Nov 2019 #23
The wealth tax will probably be challenged as unconstitutional. Could take years to litigate as it emmaverybo Nov 2019 #33
A wealth tax may be unconstitutional and will be tied up in the courts for a long time Gothmog Nov 2019 #38
From my twitter feed Gothmog Nov 2019 #24
Because . . . The Math peggysue2 Nov 2019 #26
Well she needs to prune and prioritize her plans. He is not saying M4All can't get paid for, but emmaverybo Nov 2019 #28
Zandi's wrong, at least in his implication. MH1 Nov 2019 #29
You're right. I'm not happy with it. I'm happy that I have it. It's better than not having it. Iggo Nov 2019 #34
About half. Can't cite. Makes sense. We sure know many are happy with Obamacare. , emmaverybo Nov 2019 #35
Gov. John Lynch talks about how Medicare for All will harm New Hampshire's economy. Gothmog Nov 2019 #39
What does being "happy with [your] insurance" even mean? Act_of_Reparation Nov 2019 #49
Warren's plan did not pass muster Gothmog Nov 2019 #59
You are having an extremely difficult time staying on topic. Act_of_Reparation Nov 2019 #62
This message was self-deleted by its author Iggo Nov 2019 #32
Economist Mark Zandi who signed off on Warren's math calculations came out against her plan." Gothmog Nov 2019 #36
 

ritapria

(1,812 posts)
1. 8% payroll Tax needed to fund MFA
Fri Nov 8, 2019, 05:20 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Demsrule86

(68,352 posts)
3. Payroll taxes are regressive...and we already pay too much.
Fri Nov 8, 2019, 05:22 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ritapria

(1,812 posts)
7. Savings from MFA outweigh increase in Payroll Taxes
Fri Nov 8, 2019, 05:28 PM
Nov 2019

MFA results in a "Tax cut" for most Americans …………

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Hassin Bin Sober

(26,273 posts)
15. You know what's really regressive? Premiums, copays and deductibles.
Fri Nov 8, 2019, 05:39 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Demsrule86

(68,352 posts)
2. I don't find this surprising...what is surprising is Warren's doubling down on this....a losing
Fri Nov 8, 2019, 05:21 PM
Nov 2019

issue in the general ...I believe. K&R.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Red Oak

(697 posts)
6. Yes, people love their health insurance! (sarcasm)
Fri Nov 8, 2019, 05:26 PM
Nov 2019
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/17/opinion/insulin-prices-diabetics.html

snip

Does Anyone Really ‘Love’ Private Health Insurance?

I am alive today not because of insurance companies but despite them.

...I am alive today not because of insurance companies but despite them. My insulin refills have been delayed countless times, not because of medical reasons, but because of what seem to be arbitrary insurance limits and requirements to continuously document my condition, which is permanent. Once, my insulin refill was delayed so long that I ran out, just when the insurance office closed for a three-day weekend. I was a student, away from home, with no other way to pay for my prescription. Terrified, I rushed to the pharmacy in tears. The pharmacist took pity on me and slipped me a vial of insulin without charge, saving my life.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Loki Liesmith

(4,602 posts)
16. Yeah I love mine.
Fri Nov 8, 2019, 05:41 PM
Nov 2019

Amazing coverage.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

emmaverybo

(8,144 posts)
27. We must work to change this through regulation and bringing down costs. Single payer will also
Sat Nov 9, 2019, 04:16 AM
Nov 2019

have red tape, criteria to be met to get this or that drug, be eligible for a surgical procedure, and long wait times are baked into state run healthcare. In England, ER’s frequently close up due to demand and provider shortage, Many people there and in other single payer, government-centered system countries end up paying out of pocket. Delays are legendary.

With or without M4All, we have to fix problems In the existing systems and preserve them from being gutted because we will not get M4All for years. Meanwhile Medicaid and Medicare are at risk. And it is true that there are private insurance horrors from out of network emergencies to the situation you describe that put your life at risk.

Some private insurance offer much better benefits counseling and actual intervention than others. They should all be regulated, standardized so that they offer advce nurses, efficient handling of documentation, urgent care, out of network coverage for emergency and catastrophic illness, case management. Drug costs must be brought down along with all medical costs whatever program one is on and in order to have good quality universal healthcare.



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Happy Hoosier

(7,081 posts)
54. I'm not crazy about our health insurance system.
Wed Nov 13, 2019, 06:07 PM
Nov 2019

BUT, I am totally NOT convinced that MFA can be passed. I also would rather see my employers share of my health insurance come to ME. That is part of my total compensation. If it means I have to pay higher taxes, I'll do that.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

crazytown

(7,277 posts)
4. "I am not a fan of Medicare for All," said Zandi
Fri Nov 8, 2019, 05:22 PM
Nov 2019

“We have 160 million people who have private insurance and are pretty happy with what they have. Why change that?"

Zandi didn't back Warren's health care plan.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
5. No chit. She can't pay for it all in reality and too many voters won't fall for it.
Fri Nov 8, 2019, 05:24 PM
Nov 2019

She needs to get real soon.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Red Oak

(697 posts)
8. You bet!
Fri Nov 8, 2019, 05:30 PM
Nov 2019

The rest of the industrialized world has better health care and at a lower cost. No way in heck the wealthiest nation on Earth could ever do that! Too expensive! Won't work!

Heck, even Iceland has good national health care. Not the good ol' US of A, though. We need to pay those Pharma salaries and keep the mega insurers well fed at the trough.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
11. A Public Option will get us there much quicker than
Fri Nov 8, 2019, 05:35 PM
Nov 2019

trying to cram MFA down the throats of people who don’t want it, rightly or wrongly.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Hassin Bin Sober

(26,273 posts)
17. How are we going to pay for a public option!?!??11?
Fri Nov 8, 2019, 05:44 PM
Nov 2019

How are we going to get a public option through a Republican senate!?!?!!11?

How is a public option goin to insure and pay for 30 million uninsured!!??1!?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
19. PO is cheaper and more likely to pass. But, nice that you admit
Fri Nov 8, 2019, 05:50 PM
Nov 2019

Sanders’ and Warren’s promises to voters are not viable.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BeyondGeography

(39,284 posts)
20. CEO of America's Health Insurance Plans: Biden's healthcare plan is not much different from MFA
Fri Nov 8, 2019, 06:04 PM
Nov 2019

The health care industrial complex hates all of our candidates' plans with a passion and they are geared up to smear as much FUD on the public option as on MFA:

The CEO of America's Health Insurance Plans said a healthcare plan proposed by Democratic presidential candidate and former Vice President Joe Biden is not much different than "Medicare for All," which the industry strongly opposes, according to The Hill.

In an interview with The Hill, AHIP CEO Matt Eyles spoke out against Mr. Biden's healthcare plan, which aims to strengthen the ACA while also introducing a public health insurance option. Mr. Eyles said the public option, which would be similar to Medicare, would lead to too much government involvement in the healthcare system.

"If you're creating a government-run option that essentially leverages price controls, and relies on a government-administered system, that doesn't create what would be a competitive playing field," Mr. Eyles told the publication. "We're viewing Medicare for All and all of these other … variations on it, as similarly bad."

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/payer-issues/ahip-comes-out-against-biden-s-healthcare-plan.html


AHIP is a member of the anti-Medicare for All industry group called the Partnership for America’s Health Care Future, which has been running ads against Medicare for All and public option proposals from the leading Democratic presidential candidates. They want to keep things just as they are.

https://americashealthcarefuture.org/about-us/
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
21. It's significantly different in that people can choose.
Fri Nov 8, 2019, 06:11 PM
Nov 2019

I believe 80% will take it within 5 years of introduction, if a government plan is even half as good as we think.

I don’t believe a Democrat will get elected Prez running on mandated MFA, no matter how much you don’t want it. And if we lose Presidency, House and Senate are at risk.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BeyondGeography

(39,284 posts)
22. Of course it's different, the point is it will be lobbied against just as hard
Fri Nov 8, 2019, 06:17 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Gothmog

(144,005 posts)
37. A pubic option does not cost much
Mon Nov 11, 2019, 06:48 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Hassin Bin Sober

(26,273 posts)
40. Lol. The Public option doesn't cost much but is ranked with MFA as "low cost and high quality"?
Mon Nov 11, 2019, 06:59 PM
Nov 2019

They are both ranked as low cost! Can we now stifle about how are we going to pay for MFA?


I’ll take the low cost high quality plan that covers EVERYONE without convoluted hoops to jump through.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Gothmog

(144,005 posts)
41. Building on the ACA is the best way to go in the real world
Mon Nov 11, 2019, 07:05 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Hassin Bin Sober

(26,273 posts)
42. Didn't you just post something showing that system as highest cost and lower quality?
Mon Nov 11, 2019, 07:17 PM
Nov 2019

This place can be so confusing sometimes.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Gothmog

(144,005 posts)
43. No
Mon Nov 11, 2019, 07:55 PM
Nov 2019

Read the material posted

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
47. "This is troubling for Bernie."
Tue Nov 12, 2019, 03:14 PM
Nov 2019

"I'm concerned."

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
48. Can we please stop with this "real world" shit?
Tue Nov 12, 2019, 03:19 PM
Nov 2019

We're ostensibly intelligent people. If you're going to disagree, go ahead and disagree with whatever facts you have. We don't need you to dadsplain reality.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Gothmog

(144,005 posts)
50. Can you explain how Warren's plan will be adopted in the real world?
Tue Nov 12, 2019, 06:37 PM
Nov 2019

I really do not think that Warren's plan can be adopted in the real world. There are a number of Democratic Senators who will never vote to eliminate the filibuster or vote this plan. I would love to understand how this plan could be adopted in the real world. I note that Hillary Clinton also doubts that Warren's plan could be adopted in the real world




Hillary Clinton said Wednesday that she does not think Sen. Elizabeth Warren’s (D-Mass.) "Medicare for All" plan could ever get enacted and that she backs a public option instead.

“You just don't think that that plan would ever get enacted?” interviewer Andrew Ross Sorkin asked Clinton at The New York Times DealBook Conference.

“No, I don't. I don't, but the goal is the right goal,” the former secretary of State responded.

“I believe the smarter approach is to build on what we have. A public option is something I've been in favor of for a very long time,” Clinton said. “I don't believe we should be in the midst of a big disruption while we are trying to get to 100 percent coverage and deal with costs.”

I really want to know how this plan will be adopted.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
51. Have you tried asking her?
Wed Nov 13, 2019, 09:26 AM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Gothmog

(144,005 posts)
52. I sat three rows behind Senator Warren at the National Convention but the issue never came up
Wed Nov 13, 2019, 10:39 AM
Nov 2019

It is Warren who is trying to sell this plan that has no chance of passing in the real world. It is her burden to explain how this plan can be adopted in the real world.

I trust Hillary Clinton on this issue. Hillary is very smart and very tough

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
53. Surely can write her.
Wed Nov 13, 2019, 04:30 PM
Nov 2019

Most sitting Senators allow you to submit questions and comments to them from their website.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Gothmog

(144,005 posts)
55. I am working to turn Texas blue
Fri Nov 15, 2019, 12:00 AM
Nov 2019

I and a good number of real democrats are working hard to turn Texas blue. In 2018, we flipped 12 seats in the Texas House and 2 congressional seats. We need to pick up 9 seats in the Texas House of Representatives to flip this body and control redistricting. I am working on 2 campaigns for state house seats. The DCCC has targeted 6 congressional seats and I am working on one of these campaigns. If Texas down ballot candidates are forced to run on an unpopular policy such as Warren's plan, we will lose these races I really like Larry Sabato and agree with this study http://crystalball.centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/articles/medicare-for-all-a-vote-loser-in-2018-u-s-house-elections/

“Medicare for All” has emerged as a key issue in the 2020 Democratic presidential nomination campaign. Two of the leading candidates, Sens. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) and Elizabeth Warren (D-MA), have made Medicare for All a central issue in their campaigns. Warren’s and Sanders’ proposals would abolish private health insurance in the U.S. within a few years and move all Americans into a government health plan based on the current Medicare program but with no copayments or deductibles.

Several Democratic candidates, including former Vice President Joe Biden, who has led in most national polls, have been highly critical of this idea. These candidates, along with a number of health policy experts and pundits, have attacked Sanders’ and Warren’s Medicare for All proposal as prohibitively expensive and politically unrealistic. They have also argued that embracing Medicare for All would alienate many independents and moderate Democrats and risk costing Democrats the electoral votes of several key swing states.....

Conclusions
An analysis of the impact of Medicare for All on the 2018 House elections indicates that Democratic challengers and open seat candidates in competitive districts who endorsed a version of Medicare for All similar to that proposed by Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren did significantly worse than those who did not. This negative effect, close to five points of margin after controlling for a variety of other factors, was clearly large enough to affect the outcomes of some House contests.

It is possible that the estimated effect of Medicare for All was a byproduct of other differences between supporters and non-supporters. For example, supporters might have taken more liberal positions on a variety of other issues as well as Medicare for All. Even if that is the case, however, these findings are not encouraging to supporters of Medicare for All. They indicate that candidates in competitive races who take positions to the left of the median voter could get punished at the polls. Democratic presidential candidates would do well to take heed of these results, particularly as the eventual nominee determines what he or she wishes to emphasize in the general election.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
56. I thought you were concerned about how we were going to pay for it.
Fri Nov 15, 2019, 08:26 AM
Nov 2019

It's electability seems to me a different issue altogether.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Gothmog

(144,005 posts)
57. Medicare for All at the top of the ticket in 2020 will lose us the House.
Fri Nov 15, 2019, 01:34 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
58. Your position was clear the first time.
Fri Nov 15, 2019, 02:31 PM
Nov 2019

I require no further clarification.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Gothmog

(144,005 posts)
63. Warren's latest health plan is causing concerns for some centrist, moderate and rural Democrats
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 05:36 PM
Nov 2019

I and other true Democrats have been working hard to turn Texas blue. We hope to pick up six congressional seats in addition to the two seats we flipped in 2018. We have a chance to defeat Cornyn in the Senate. The Democrats picked up 12 seats in the Texas House and need 9 more to take control of the Texas House prior to the next redistricting session. If Biden is the nominee, Texas will be a battleground state. If Warren or sanders is the nominee. Texas will not be a battle ground state and we can forget about keeping the two seats that we flipped in 2018

Speaker Pelosi is worried about losing control of the House with a weak top of the ballot ticket with a program that will kill down ballot candidates
.




The most-vulnerable Democrat in Colorado’s state House, Bri Buentello, is dreading door-knocking in her rural district now that Elizabeth Warren dropped her massive “Medicare for All” plan into the presidential arena.
“This is going to cause down-ballot damage in swing districts and states if she’s the nominee,” Buentello says, describing how her Pueblo-area constituents — who voted overwhelmingly for Donald Trump in 2016 — were already echoing criticisms about a giant, one-size-fits-all big government run plan that cancels private health insurance and raises taxes.
Story Continued Below

The fear of blowback is indicative of the broad and largely negative response to Warren’s proposal from centrist, moderate and rural Democrats — many of whom, like Buentello, back Joe Biden in the primary. And it exposes the fault line between those who fret about winning voters in the center and the activist progressive base propelling Warren to the front of the Democratic pack.

The long-awaited plan to raise the $20.5 trillion she says is needed to pay for single-payer health care in America is Warren’s attempt to answer critics after weeks of questions from rival candidates about the cost of her proposal and the prospect of higher taxes. Warren promised, as she has in the past, that "not one penny in middle-class tax increases” is necessary to finance the effort.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Gothmog

(144,005 posts)
44. A public-option plan is the best way to go
Mon Nov 11, 2019, 07:56 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #40)

 

Gothmog

(144,005 posts)
46. From Jared Bernstein
Mon Nov 11, 2019, 08:43 PM
Nov 2019



Remarkably, a public-option plan that requires more cost-sharing than single payer but significantly less than current law gets to near-universal coverage for less in additional federal costs than the Trump tax cuts ($1.8 trillion over 10 years for the plan vs. $1.9 trillion for the tax cuts).
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

dansolo

(5,376 posts)
30. No country has a plan like the proposed M4A
Sat Nov 9, 2019, 04:15 PM
Nov 2019

Most of the countries rely on a mix of government funded plans along with private insurance. Expanding Medicare as it exists today, along with a public option and reversing the Republican sabotage of the ACA is much closer to what other countries have.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

emmaverybo

(8,144 posts)
31. The rest of the industrialized nations pay much more tax than we do. And they tried wealth
Sat Nov 9, 2019, 07:33 PM
Nov 2019

tax and had to get rid of it. They also do not have perfect systems. NHS is increasingly privatized,
suffers terrible doctor and nurse shortages, has long waiting times even for screening tests like cervical cancer, many horror stories the result of uneven, hurried, or lax care, ER shut downs frequently, and many there rely on private insurance and paying out of pocket.

Painting too rosey a picture, not being forthright about taxes, relying on a whole other cost-source that may or may not come to be, and not dealing with what to do for the years it would take for
M4All to be implemented, are flaws in the proposal that will not go away no matter how many times proponents call challenges RW talking points or try to shame people who want to build on ACA as selfish.

No other industrialized country with socialized healthcare gives undocumented residents full coverage. Why? Not feasible. First, we need to document our immigrant workers, get DACA up and running, take care of those we hope will be given asylum, prepare for the possibility of refugees, and then carefully consider, once we have over 11 million more people covered, the impact on the system if we also extend full benefits to all the undocumented people in the world. Because that, taking care of the undocumented other socialized medical systems don’t is what we will end up doing. That is a part of Warren’s plan, something that is not doable if all the rest could miraculously get done.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

crazytown

(7,277 posts)
9. She will pay for it by 'Economic Pariotism'
Fri Nov 8, 2019, 05:30 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
10. Yeah, treat foreign workers like scabs. EP and America First
Fri Nov 8, 2019, 05:32 PM
Nov 2019

were trump’s appeal too.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

crazytown

(7,277 posts)
12. Popular in the Midwest
Fri Nov 8, 2019, 05:37 PM
Nov 2019

(devil's advocate here) or have trump's lying promises left a mark?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
14. Yep, bashing foreigners and minorities is popular in red states.
Fri Nov 8, 2019, 05:39 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

George II

(67,782 posts)
13. This is one of the reasons why DETAILS are needed.
Fri Nov 8, 2019, 05:38 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

peggysue2

(10,811 posts)
25. Exactly!
Sat Nov 9, 2019, 03:46 AM
Nov 2019

The details are needed for voters to look at and have financial people scan for viability.

Which is why the details are frequently not provided . You start peering under the hood and suddenly that bold, bright idea doesn't look terribly credible or doable. Which is the case with M4A funding and the proposed Wealth Tax.

That being said, better to have those warts exposed now than during the General Election. Because then, the slicing and dicing machine will be notched up to the max.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Kurt V.

(5,624 posts)
18. the real story here is billionaires will do everything to avoid this tax.
Fri Nov 8, 2019, 05:46 PM
Nov 2019

how are ppl either missing this, ok with it or too beat down to fight that?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

FloridaBlues

(3,993 posts)
23. Her wealth tax probably won't see the light of day and most of her plans revolve around it.
Fri Nov 8, 2019, 06:31 PM
Nov 2019

People love for someone else to pay to things hence the popularity at this moment in time but reality will come into play regarding this plan.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

emmaverybo

(8,144 posts)
33. The wealth tax will probably be challenged as unconstitutional. Could take years to litigate as it
Sat Nov 9, 2019, 07:39 PM
Nov 2019

will take years to implement M4All if ever. Biden asked in the debates what’s going to happen in the meantime to provide healthcare? No answer. Medicare and Medcaid are at risk. Warren has said not a word about protecting them or boosting ACA.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Gothmog

(144,005 posts)
38. A wealth tax may be unconstitutional and will be tied up in the courts for a long time
Mon Nov 11, 2019, 06:51 PM
Nov 2019

I personally doubt that the proposed Wealth Tax is constitutional. The direct tax clause of the US constitution is clear and the 16th Amendment does not authorize this tax




Additionally, a wealth tax would almost certainly face a legal challenge from well-funded conservative opponents. And it’s genuinely unclear whether it would ultimately be ruled constitutional. The issue isn’t that Congress can’t enact a wealth tax. It’s that if a wealth tax counts as a “direct” tax, Congress would have to ensure that the amount of money coming from each state was roughly the same on a per-capita basis, as there is a provision of the Constitution that bans direct taxes unless the amount collected is drawn equally from the states based on their populations. Given that wealth is not evenly distributed across the states, that equal distribution would be functionally impossible to ensure.

The fate of a wealth tax, then, would hinge on whether it counts as a direct tax. That’s a tough question to answer, because the Constitution itself doesn’t really define what a direct tax is, beyond the fact that the category includes a poll tax, which is a fixed amount charged for every person. Taxes like tariffs and certain others that can’t be fairly distributed on a per-person basis are generally not considered direct taxes. But how all of this would apply to a wealth tax isn’t entirely clear. The Supreme Court weighed in on this question more than 100 years ago — and not in the wealth tax’s favor. In 1895, the court struck down a federal income tax law because it taxed income generated from property, including land and other kinds of personal property, like stocks and bonds. The decision was controversial, and Congress and the states effectively reversed part of it 20 years later with the passage of the 16th Amendment which allowed Congress to tax income without worrying about how evenly it was distributed. But Congress’s authority to tax wealth wasn’t addressed by the amendment, and the Supreme Court hasn’t really returned to the issue in the past century.

Warren’s defenders argue, however, that the court simply got it wrong back in 1895, and that a modern wealth tax wouldn’t count as a direct tax. But the court’s right-leaning justices might approach the tax with a less favorable eye. And the existence of the old precedent could give the court’s conservative justices a way to dispatch a wealth tax relatively easily, which gives experts like Daniel Hemel pause. “A wealth tax could raise trillions of dollars — or, if it’s struck down by the Supreme Court, it could raise nothing,” said Hemel, a law professor at the University of Chicago. “That’s a really big risk if you care about the redistribution of income and you’re trying to figure out how to get it done.”

This tax is not likely to survive legal challenge
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

peggysue2

(10,811 posts)
26. Because . . . The Math
Sat Nov 9, 2019, 03:48 AM
Nov 2019

In the end, the numbers will always have their say.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

emmaverybo

(8,144 posts)
28. Well she needs to prune and prioritize her plans. He is not saying M4All can't get paid for, but
Sat Nov 9, 2019, 04:27 AM
Nov 2019

that in the context of about 4O additional very extensive and costly plans, from clean energy to
universal childcare to student debt forgiveness to a large social security raise to free college to billions upon billions she is promising to multiple other projects, there is no way.

She can pick three or four. She can modify.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

MH1

(17,537 posts)
29. Zandi's wrong, at least in his implication.
Sat Nov 9, 2019, 09:15 AM
Nov 2019

He says: “We have 160 million people who have private insurance and are pretty happy with what they have. Why change that?"

NO, not all of the 160 million people who have private insurance are "pretty happy" with it.

That's just flat wrong.

Unfortunately I don't have numbers, but I bet someone does.

I personally think my private insurance sucks. Having it is better than not having it. But it doesn't take genius-level creativity to imagine a better system. Especially if one has been in the military and experienced just going to the doctor when you need to go to the doctor, and not having to jump through a bunch of bullshit hoops and still wonder how much $$ is going to come from where to pay for it.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Iggo

(47,489 posts)
34. You're right. I'm not happy with it. I'm happy that I have it. It's better than not having it.
Sat Nov 9, 2019, 07:40 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

emmaverybo

(8,144 posts)
35. About half. Can't cite. Makes sense. We sure know many are happy with Obamacare. ,
Sat Nov 9, 2019, 07:42 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Gothmog

(144,005 posts)
39. Gov. John Lynch talks about how Medicare for All will harm New Hampshire's economy.
Mon Nov 11, 2019, 06:51 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
49. What does being "happy with [your] insurance" even mean?
Tue Nov 12, 2019, 04:04 PM
Nov 2019

It doesn't have any practical implication. I mean, I'm satisfied with my insurance right now. I might be less satisfied if I'm diagnosed with a serious illness and suddenly realize how little my plan actually covers.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Gothmog

(144,005 posts)
59. Warren's plan did not pass muster
Sun Nov 17, 2019, 02:11 PM
Nov 2019

Last edited Mon Nov 18, 2019, 04:38 PM - Edit history (1)


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
62. You are having an extremely difficult time staying on topic.
Mon Nov 18, 2019, 10:42 AM
Nov 2019

I'm not saying there aren't good arguments against Warren's plan. I'm saying the "people are happy with their insurance" isn't one of them.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

Response to Gothmog (Original post)

 

Gothmog

(144,005 posts)
36. Economist Mark Zandi who signed off on Warren's math calculations came out against her plan."
Mon Nov 11, 2019, 02:36 PM
Nov 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
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