Zerlina Maxwell with some uncomfortable truths about the debate

[StarfishSaver]

Link to tweet

[jezebel321]

1. Pete criticized on policy issues. Julian acted as if Biden was too old. That's a huge difference nt.

[FreeState]

6. +1 n/t

[LuvNewcastle]

9. Castro practically made fun of him to his face.

BIG difference.

[Celerity]

28. +10000

[highplainsdem]

2. Zerlina Maxwell has apparently been watching different debates.

[DrToast]

3. Guess she forgot how Harris shot up in the polls when she went after Biden

It didn’t last, but she was seen as being strong and tough when she did it.

[Polly Hennessey]

4. Zerlina's opinion is worth zero.

[Thekaspervote]

7. Indeed!

[Polly Hennessey]

77. Indeed!

[question everything]

13. Below that (not that I have the slight idea of who that person is)

[Dagstead Bumwood]

55. She's on Sirius radio, msnbc, amongst other places.

She also worked on both the Obama and Clinton campaigns. Her radio show is interesting at times, and I listen to her at lunch when time permits. But, when I heard her say the same thing today on her show, I just sat in the car shaking my head. I get what she's saying, but this is an apple/oranges situation compared with the Castro/Biden incident.

[AtheistCrusader]

5. Imagine Trump jabbing his whole hand like that at Hillary when talking about 'getting votes' for

a bill.

Would we accept it as 'ok'?

[Thekaspervote]

8. Hummm?? Hand jabbing ... really?

[BeyondGeography]

10. Yeah

Really.

[emulatorloo]

33. Dunno why you want to portray a tough woman like Warren as if she were a 'delicate flower'

She’s strong and tough as nails.

[BeyondGeography]

41. Silly reply that has nothing to do with the point being made

Biden interrupted her twice, raised his voice and generally lost control of himself. The poster I was responding to apparently didn’t see that.

And, yes, she’s very tough. The way she filleted him proved it.

[emulatorloo]

42. Yes I am silly for being surprised at your lack of consistency. I apparently have more confidence

in Senator Warren than you do. The Senator may not have have a great night last night, but I am confident she’ll fully recover.

[StarfishSaver]

47. You don't seem to have much faith in Biden when you think HE's being unfairly criticized

You immediately swoop right in to his defense at the slightest sign he's being criticized without giving him a chance to fend for himself or "fully recover."

You must not have much faith in his strength or ability to take care of himself.

[emulatorloo]

50. My top three are Warren Biden Buttigieg in no particular order.

and I’d be happy with any of them. And of course I’ll be happy to vote and GOTV for the eventual winner of the Democratic nomination, which is what I always do.

So I don’t think you know too much about me. Propably best if you don’t project any anxiety you might be feeling onto other DU’ers.

[AtheistCrusader]

48. Please. This doesn't even qualify as a feeble attempt to deflect.

Please oh please tell me you don't recall the outrage.

[emulatorloo]

52. Bernie supporter primary 2016. HRC voter in the GE. Liked them both, just as I like Warren

and Biden and Buttigieg now. So I maybe don’t fit whatever narrative you’ve got going there.

[AtheistCrusader]

62. The 'narrative' is yours. (Objecting shows the target candidate is weak)

Warren now (and Hillary then) were not weak, and did not require defense on this issue. But that doesn't mean Biden and others should be doing that now/then.

In the last primary, when I supported Bernie, I still understood the objection from the crowd (not by Hillary directly) about that behavior.

[emulatorloo]

63. I don't know what you are talking about. IMHO both Warren and HRC are tough powerhouses

You seemed to be projecting a bunch of nonsense on to me that I don’t believe. Enjoy your day and your weekend.

[AtheistCrusader]

64. I am referring to post 33 (yours).

No one besides you suggested anything about Warren's 'toughness' or 'powerhouseness'.

I had called out Biden's behavior, because it is the same thing Bernie did in the previous primary, to much outrage here in this forum. (Which I consider understandable, even though I was a Bernie supporter at the time.)

[emulatorloo]

65. So we both agree Warren is tough. Perhaps you should attack someone you disagree with.

I praised Warren, and I will continue to praise Warren.

Have a nice night.

[AtheistCrusader]

66. I disagree with how you portrayed the poster in post 33.

They didn't do what you accused them of. And upthread, neither did I.

[emulatorloo]

67. Your attacks on me were too vitriolic, OTT, misdirected, and unwarranted.

As I said before Warren’s on my shortlist. In my opinion she had a bad night at the debate, but I have confidence in Senator Warren. I believe she will come back strong.

just in practical terms you’re wasting your time screaming at someone who likes and admires Elizabeth Warren.

Your time would be better spent positively persuading someone who is on the fence about her.

I wish you the best but stop bothering me. Have a good weekend.

[AtheistCrusader]

69. That's so strange. Your subject line describes post 33 perfectly.

Calling a deflection a deflection isn't a 'vitriolic attack' upon you.

In 'practical terms' as you say, you yourself have just attacked two Warren supporters in this subthread. Perhaps take your own advice.

I'm not the kind of person who just accepts accusations like that, and then remains silent because 'i'm bothering you'. You respond, I respond, that's how forums work. We're both free to stop responding at any time, and there are additional tools like 'ignore' if that's not your preference.

[emulatorloo]

72. It is a indeed a discussion board.

It is shortsighted to attempt try to turn allies into enemies as you seem to be intent on doing, but knock yourself out.



Bye and take care.

[AtheistCrusader]

73. I'm sorry that it seems that way to you.

[emulatorloo]

74. Fortunately I am not the kind of person who blames candidates for the behavior of their supporters

on DU. Sadly not everyone is that way. Maybe keep that in mind in your future interactions with undecideds who like and admire Senator Warren. And when you knock doors to GOTV for her.

It would be a real shame to inadvertently drive those potential Warren voters away.

for Warren and all of our candidates. Cheers to you for all of your passion

[AtheistCrusader]

75. And will you be taking this advice, yourself?

[emulatorloo]

76. I'll do GOTV as I always do. Everyone knows that you don't browbeat undecideds/persuadables

[AtheistCrusader]

78. But it's ok, if they have a preferred candidate?

See, I'm inferring, like you did in Post 33.

If you don't enjoy it, consider that maybe we didn't enjoy it either.

[emulatorloo]

80. No it's not "ok". The correct thing is to say "thanks for yr time" and move to the next door

on your list.

It sounds like you have never had the chance to do GOTV. I hope you do some this year for your candidate. And I hope pay close attention to your field organizer when she tells you how to do it effectively.

It’s time for you to move on and stop putting words in my mouth i didn’t say.

Best of luck and have a pleasant evening.

[AtheistCrusader]

81. Yeah, I can't walk away from cognitive dissonance.

Call it a character flaw.

"It’s time for you to move on and stop putting words in my mouth i didn’t say."

Read that (emphasis mine) and go back and look at your post #33.
Keep looking back and forth if necessary, but I'm confident at some point it'll click and you'll understand why this ENTIRE sub-thread exists.

[Otto Lidenbrock]

61. to be fair to bernie he does that to men too

[StarfishSaver]

68. He does. And when he does it, it's dismissed as just being passionate.

[highplainsdem]

12. I don't think HRC would have stood next to someone who helped her signature bill get passed and not

give him credit, and in fact offer that as a counter to Biden pointing out he knew how to get things done.

Warren has a very, very long history of going after Biden.

Despite which he gives her credit where credit is due. She should have done the same.

[StarfishSaver]

16. I seem to have underestimated the reaction a black woman commentator would get

here for having the nerve to say something that doesn't express complete devotion to a certain candidate.

[AtheistCrusader]

22. Yeah, I'm not happy. And there are a number of double standards in play here

around what you've highlighted.

I don't even know what to say at this point. I'm getting very worried about this entire election cycle.

[mcar]

35. You are making a valid and fair point, IMO

[Polly Hennessey]

37. Has nothing to do with being black.

Zerlina is one of many talking heads who have zero
impact on decisions, outcomes, of or about anything.

[Bettie]

70. That was my thought too

but, that's how it goes around here in primary season.

For what it's worth, she was absolutely right.

[StarfishSaver]

71. She was, indeed

Which partly explains the reaction

[question everything]

11. Who is this and why should this person's opinion matter?

[StarfishSaver]

15. Maybe you should expand your horizons

[question everything]

17. There are 6 billion people in the world. More than 350 million in this country alone

No, thanks, I have better things to do in my life.

[StarfishSaver]

18. Then you certainly shouldn't assume the fact that YOU haven't heard of someone

makes their opinion irrelevant

[demmiblue]

14. Zerlina Maxwell is a drama llama.

I agree with many of her insights, but she often turns it up to eleven. I think a lot of this is due to being too immersed in social media.

[Docreed2003]

19. The responses to this are enlightening....

Maybe, and I know this is a wacky idea, we should be taking very seriously the voices of women, particularly women of color, who are actually on the front lines of fighting for issues in this country and not just keyboard warriors on a forum.

Zerlina has an incredible voice and platform and I thoroughly enjoy her work and her radio show, because we're of similar ages and interests and she makes me think....I like that.

Also, full disclosure, I'm listening to her show "Signal Boost" as I type this.

[StarfishSaver]

20. Enlightening and deeply disappointing

Especially the "who is she, anyway?" dismissals, which reveal an ignorance and narrow-mindedness (not to mention an un-self-conscious racial cluelessness) that's pretty astonishing to see among Democrats.

[Tarheel_Dem]

29. Why do supporters of other candidates keep trying to racialize Joe Biden? I'm black, and I'm a...

ride or die for Biden.

[StarfishSaver]

31. No one is "racializing" Biden

Zerlina's comment isn't about Biden. It's about how people react to things that women and people of color say and do vs. how they react to equivalent comments and behavior by white men.

[treestar]

57. We've got to agree with her due to her being a WOC?

Why would be take anyone seriously for making these claims?

[Docreed2003]

59. I never said you had to agree with her

But I did say it is worth at least listening to her perspective. Zerlina isn't just some ding dong posting BS on Twitter.

[Celerity]

79. She was one of the first on MSNBC to start up months ago, towards

the beginning of his entrance into the campaign, with the bullshit about Buttigieg's being gay as the main reason he could never win. She also repeated some lies about his South Bend vacant house project, and got called out. I have disliked her since. She has dialed it back a bit, but still takes potshots.

I take anything she says with a large grain of salt.

[Kahuna7]

21. She got dragged on a previous thread, so she's tweaking her argument...

Link to tweet

[highplainsdem]

23. Some great responses to Maxwell's foolish take there:

People forget, HE is the person who got all those plans passed by working with Republicans including saving us from a recession.

-

He never gets fair credit for the work he did with the stimulus bill. The funds were equitably distributed between red and blue states. He worked with both sides. In the polarized world of today, you practically have to hide bipartisanship.

-

I heard that! The audience cheered when he said he got her votes to establish the CFPB, and booed when she thanked the entire Obama administration *except* Joe Biden.

-

I guess, only Biden can be yelled at and lectured to. I imagine that's fine with you.

And Biden did help corral votes for Warren (a role he often played on behalf of the administration). Warren chose not to acknowledge it and instead respond sarcastically.

Not a good look.

-

What ?! Did you consider the snarky answer she gave him?

-

I'd do it again if she continues to be so sarcastic and self righteous.

[Cha]

49. Thank you for that, highplainsdem! Would

it kill her to give him credit when credit it due?!

He never gets fair credit for the work he did with the stimulus bill. The funds were equitably distributed between red and blue states. He worked with both sides. In the polarized world of today, you practically have to hide bipartisanship.

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

And, this is a super important reason to vote Joe Biden!

Joe Biden is a Uniter.. he's excellent at building coalitions.. imperative for the 2020 GE!

Link to tweet

I ran across it searching for more info on Twitter about how Biden was able to get the stimulus bill through the Senate by convincing three Republicans to vote for it.

[emmaverybo]

56. These are great comments. I saw the same debate these folks saw.

[TidalWave46]

24. Sometimes it's a tough go around this place.

I think Maxwell sometimes delves into insignificance with her arguments but she sure as hell is someone we should listen to and is on our side.

For fun.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287115482

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287116694

Head spinning.

[StarfishSaver]

32. Yes, it is

Particularly for outspoken black women.

[Green Line]

25. Guess she didn't catch Warren rolling her eyes at Joe

[TwilightZone]

26. Opinion and truth are two different things.

What you linked to is a series of opinions, not truths.

I think you'll get some argument about Biden "screaming" at Warren being a truth, for example. I suspect Biden supporters would have a different view, as may others.

The interesting thing about being truly undecided this term is noting how similar behavior from different candidates can be interpreted in wildly different ways. The same goes for stances on issues and how the candidates address them.

Nothing new, of course. We often see what we want to see and agree with opinions with which we were already aligned. That doesn't make them "truths".

[Triloon]

27. It used to just be a contraction, now it's a dog whistle

y'all y'all y'all

[Skidmore]

30. I like Zerlina

and frequently tune in to watch her but she is not without an agenda any more than Warren, who I also like.

As a woman, I wish I could count the number of times I 've been disrespected in life. I didn't see this in the video. I saw Biden correcting a misrepresentation of his work during the Obama administration that Warren was deliberately making. We want to see women engage on stages for power, are we going to insist that the rules of engagement be those reserved for social events

The other thing I see happening is that a bored media is ready for a new narrative with a new lead. Noting that all still photos are selected to show Biden with his mouth open and Warren looking downward as if meekly so. Language in headlines and articles is written to give those without access to video the impression that a near physical altercation had occurred. Not unexpectedly, Warren supporters are happy to carry that water. I watched a misrepresentation followed by a correction followed by repeated measure misrepresentation. Do we believe that Warren would have let a misrepresentation of her work record stand without defense?

[Cha]

51. Damn good question, Skidmore! "Do we believe

that Warren would have let a misrepresentation of her work record stand without defense?"

It really makes me disappointed that she would do that.

Mahalo for your post!

[mcar]

34. Amy Klobuchar is getting praise for challenging E Warren

while Kamala Harris is being mocked and criticized for a lesser challenge.

[JCMach1]

36. Both Biden and Buttigieg rubbed me the wrong way

[INdemo]

53. Standing next to Warren

did Biden think he gained points by pointing his finger in Her face and yelling at her
No Joe you weren’t Presidential 15 years ago and you weren’t Presidential last night

[Kahuna7]

82. Who knows? Maybe he did.

[FrankBooth]

38. Zerlina is fine but

She has her axe to grind. This is pretty shallow analysis IMO, basically a sound byte for Twitter.

[StarfishSaver]

39. Perhaps it's shallow to you

But everyone isn't as dismissive of her point of view.

[FrankBooth]

40. LOL

-NM-

[Celerity]

43. she is on MSNBC as I type this ripping into Biden again

[StarfishSaver]

45. I just saw her

She didn't "rip into" him.

It really is interesting how even the slightest criticism, regardless how constructive, or any reference to him less fawning than "Biden is so awesome" triggers accusations of him being "attacked" or "ripped into."

[Celerity]

46. we have two different views in this case, and I have hardly been a 'hair on fire over the slightest

criticism of Biden' type. Far from it, lol.

[NYMinute]

44. Now blaming the public because it didn't fit Zerlina's anti-Biden views? nt

[loyalsister]

54. It's not just the debate

I think this is a general problem that was also noticeable when Harris called attention to Biden's history and it was interpreted as an attack rather than raising an issue or sharing her story/experience.
Even after Biden's presumptuous assessment of her experience, she was faulted for daring to talk about how memories of political strategizing looked from her perspective as the subject of legislation.
The persistent narrative of Harris as an aggressor has never been abandoned and probably will never die.

[treestar]

58. I didn't even see it but I doubt Biden

was "screaming" at anyone.

[emmaverybo]

60. Maxwell has a thing about Biden. Yours and her truths are not mine. Warren misrepresented

Biden’s work and he corrected, in a light manner, so she doubled down, then went into petty, rather spiteful sarcasm. She had a problem fielding challenges last night.

As for Maxwell, She gets plenty of mileage beating up on Biden. I don’t have to join her because she’s accomplished or insightful or right on other issues.