Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumBernie Sanders Is in Trouble
PoliticoThough Sanders leads Trump in virtually every head-to-head national poll, the nebulous concept of "electability" has dogged him in a year in which many Democrats care more about defeating Trump than anything else. Surveys show Biden is winning the argument that he's the Democratic Party's surest bet in a general election, and Warrens perceived electability among voters has risen faster than Sanders.
But party operatives, and even some Sanders allies, arent convinced that the swing through Iowa was strategic. Bernie has no idea how to right the ship and neither does anybody around him, a Democratic activist with knowledge of the campaign says. They dont know where theyre going. They know things arent going well and theyre grasping at ideas.
As Sanders has stagnated and Warren has soared, even some of the Vermont senators supporters are expressing alarm. Something is off, they say privately, adding to the chorus of people in establishment political circles saying the same thing. Maybe he should explain how hes different from Warren he has deliberately avoided any hint of criticism of her or commit to out-organizing her in the early nominating states. Or perhaps he needs to make nice with the media and hire more seasoned pros. Or what about going all-in on Iowa?
The ideas from his volunteers, former aides, past delegates, steering committee members, and even some people within his campaign, vary. But they almost all come back to the same fundamental question, a question that has confounded the campaign since its earliest days: Can Bernie Sanders a 78-year-old iconoclast whose entire identity is about standing firm in his beliefs, damn it change?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
dlk
(11,575 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)All I'm saying is, when we look at how a campaign is being run... and the type of people that are hired (ie: Stein supporters Sirota and Turner, among others)... it gives voters a pretty good idea of what a BS administration might be like (and they're not liking it apparently.)
I do know that the BS messaging isn't resonating, nor is it impressing the AA and other POC communities, and in that regard he's ALSO doing extremely poorly. Fact of the matter is, anyone who cannot get the support of the AA/POC voters will most certainly NOT be our party's nominee.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Codeine
(25,586 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
George II
(67,782 posts)....they attract.
Imagine a political campaign that openly insults (and offends) those who don't agree with them.
Check the tweets of Nina Turner, Briahna Gray, and David Sirota.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Of course loyal Democrats are going to be pissed off that shit stunts like that. And it just boggles my mind that they believe this is the way to attract more voters to support, donate, volunteer and vote for Democrats. THEY ARE CHASING THEM AWAY.
Those three are under the sadly mistaken notion that their far left fringe philosophy represents the 'base' of the party... and that's simply NOT true. The actual BASE OF THE PARTY are the ones who do all those things I mentioned above. They support, volunteer, donate, leather-to-the-pavement, phone calls, flyers, meetings... but most importantly... THE BASE VOTES!!!
As we've seen many times in the past, what they call "the base" doesn't vote. They're NOT reliable. And everything those three say or do only convinces them that the party is "corrupt" (it isn't).
I hate all three of them (four if you include Sarandon) for all the negativity they create. Negativity generates apathy. Apathy discourages voter turnout. Low voter turnout gives Republicans a chance to steal the elections.
All I'm saying is... none of those things serve any good purpose. So why do they continue to do them? Why?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
George II
(67,782 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
yardwork
(61,700 posts)"...nothing will change in foreign policy." It's laughably ignorant. For one thing, Sanders' foreign policy positions are actually similar to Trump's in many ways.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)All I'm saying is that my vote will be a vote for CHANGE. I simply cannot abide ANY candidate who isn't opposed to sanctions for Russia. (BS is opposed to Russian sanctions and that is disqualifying, in my view. Russia is our enemy!)
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
calguy
(5,324 posts)because the right people want nothing to do with his campaign.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to brooklynite (Original post)
Post removed
betsuni
(25,598 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)to give a speech but ill suited to be in charge of the nation, IMHO.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TidalWave46
(2,061 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)You are correct about that. Excellent description... it may ruffle some feathers but it's entirely factual. He doesn't have the temperament or demeanor that's needed to be the Leader of the Free World. Speech-making at college-town rallies is not the same as leading... nor is it a good yardstick to determine if someone possesses the qualities needed for leading a nation.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
demigoddess
(6,644 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MontanaFarmer
(630 posts)have changed since 2016. Other folks have co-opted some of his strongest points (income inequality, rigged system, health care) and are making their own hay with them. That's to his credit, to a degree, for elevating those issues, but he's never been a particularly good candidate for president and was never going to actually BE president, IMO. I wish we could package up the good stuff from Bernie (because there is some) and repurpose it into someone with more political talent, more mainstream appeal, less rough edges. Oh, wait, that candidate exists and she's on the rise...
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BlueMississippi
(776 posts)and equipped it with major guns like David Sirota, Nina Turner, Brihana Joy-Grey, Susan Sarandon and others. Furthermore, the ship has only one navigator -- BS -- it goes on a pre-planned route of populist messages and in lieu of engines, it was supposed to propel itself by throwing trillion dollar giveaways from the stern without any legislative plan. The navigator won't change the course even while approaching rough seas or shoals or cliffs.
Even an amateur ship-builder knows that a ship's most important faculties are staying afloat, propel and navigate. Guns and living quarter decorations are secondary.
The plan of building a warship was flawed. A primary requires a speedboat with more message drivers and fewer guns - after all, the battle is against your fellow Democrats and no guns should be necessary. It is supposed to be genteel like America's cup and not like the British naval war against the Spanish armada.
The bottom line is clear. Someone who makes these mistakes is not qualified to be POTUS.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Generally speaking (of course) the type of candidate that I can easily support is someone that can do more than "hate the Democrats" and "complain about the Democratic party". Anyone who does such a thing has a very narrow and misguided focus or obsession and he (or she) is making a mistake.
Instead, the type of candidate that I can easily support will show their loyalty to the Democratic party and that they embrace the party and its ideals (rather than wanting to "destroy and rebuild" the party in the name of some type of "revolution" bullshit).
The winning candidate will be able to show his (or her) LOVE OF COUNTRY along with realistic plans (not empty and impossible promises of rainbows and unicorns).
What I'm saying is that anger and hatred of Trump... AND of Democrats AND of the Democratic party isn't enough. Anyone can create a "laundry list" of everything that's wrong with America. That's NO accomplishment. And a list of what's wrong is NOT a list of workable and realistic solutions either.
The candidate who gets my confidence isn't the one who tells me what "what we gotta do" without having a plan of how it's going to happen and how it's going to get paid for.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Thekaspervote
(32,787 posts)Blinded by his own ideas
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)So much effort being spent ATTACKING and SMEARING and aiming the cannons at the Democratic Party! What a mistake that is!!
All I'm saying is that these things serve NO good purpose at all. It only generates negativity. Negativity generates apathy. Apathy discourages voter turnout. Low voter turnout gives Republicans a chance to steal the elections.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BlueMississippi
(776 posts)One sometimes wonders if that is the ultimate goal.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)It's right in line with the Cenk Uygur and "Justice Democrats" philosophy, which is one that seeks to "destroy" the Democratic party so that some cockeyed "revolution" can take place and "restore" the party to some far-left extreme version that they fantasize about.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BlueMississippi
(776 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
aikoaiko
(34,183 posts)Last edited Mon Sep 30, 2019, 09:42 AM - Edit history (1)
His goal was to present his vision of leadership for the country and gain support for it.
I realize that many think candidates should keep changing what they say until they win, but that is not in Bernie's ethic.
Almost every Bernie supporter I know likes Bernie for this reason (even those who support other candidates).
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
aikoaiko
(34,183 posts)Its ok.
Yes, Bernie wants to be our party's nominee, but with support for his vision of America. I know that is incomprehensible to some people.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Fact of the matter is, he's losing. His campaign can't gain a foothold, he doesn't have enough support from the AA and POC voters. His poll numbers in key states continues to crater and nosedive. Everyone (including BS) knows that he's not going to be our party's nominee... they just won't admit it out loud in public.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
aikoaiko
(34,183 posts)If Bernie's support dwindles the money and polls numbers will dry up and he'll go away just like the other candidates who dropped out.
Until then, he's entitled to make his case even if it bothers some people.
This is what Democracy looks like.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)His campaign is in trouble... nothing you've said refutes that. People can make all the excuses they want, and they can try to re-frame and re-define the argument. They can try to justify what he's doing or make excuses for his embarrassingly low poll numbers (particularly with the AA/POC community)... but nothing at all changes the fact that he's not going to be our party's nominee.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
aikoaiko
(34,183 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Falcata
(156 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
qazplm135
(7,447 posts)He can make whatever case he wants. If he wants to win, he probably should change some stuff.
If he doesn't, then he should keep on keeping on.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)You're right. Absolutely NOBODY said that. Thank you for not letting that one change the subject by injecting irrelevant arguments that are in "response" to things never said. That type of tactic is an indicator that someone is arguing from a position of weakness, so they avoid direct responses and try to distract from the actual topic at hand. That topic being "Bernie Sanders Is in Trouble" (as the OP explains.)
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BlueMississippi
(776 posts)by using his Jill-Stein-voting leadership and surrogates like Sarandon.
He can make a case without attacking other candidates. Look at Joe Biden and Sen. Warren -- they have not attacked other Democrats and are thus leading.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
honest.abe
(8,684 posts)And I think many of his supporters want that too. That is very dangerous goal as it weakens the party and helps the Republicans as we saw in 2016.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,489 posts)There are far too many Democrats who have good memories and these real democrats will not forgive or forget
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,489 posts)From the Political Wire-- https://politicalwire.com/2019/04/18/how-bernie-sanders-thinks-hell-win-nomination/
Link to tweet
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
PhoenixDem
(581 posts)Unlike 2016, BS has strong opposition this time and media are vetting him a lot more. People are realizing that BS's wish-list will never become policy and he doesn't have the horse-power to get any of his plans through congress.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
njhoneybadger
(3,910 posts)He has been running the never ending president campaign for four years. To a lot of people he sounds like the teacher from the Charlie Brown movies
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)It does get repetitive, doesn't it. Easy to tune out so much negativity toward Democrats and the smears and attacks on the Democratic party. That type of negativity generates apathy. Apathy discourages voter turnout. Low voter turnout gives Republicans a chance to steal the elections.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
njhoneybadger
(3,910 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
PhoenixDem
(581 posts)Even Geico changes its commercials to prevent monotony and overexposure.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NYMinute
(3,256 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
stopbush
(24,396 posts)to bother with Sanders.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JoeOtterbein
(7,702 posts)Bernie Sanders Is in Trouble
Up close and personal with a candidate in decline and seemingly stuck in his ways.
By HOLLY OTTERBEIN September 30, 2019
Don't forget the writers!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BlueMississippi
(776 posts)Species that fail to evolve with times, food sources and habitat become extinct fast.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,489 posts)As a father, I understand your pride and approve of your daughter's article.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JoeOtterbein
(7,702 posts)What else?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Gothmog
(145,489 posts)I understand being a proud father
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JoeOtterbein
(7,702 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)during the last debate made him seem way older than he has before. I don't know if a more solid performance during the next debate will change things for him or not. EW seems to have (as Bush the Elder called it) "the big mo."
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)But I will say that you're not alone in those observations.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
onetexan
(13,056 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)One thing that I learned, if you don't have plenty of money in reserve, the business is dead, the only question is when does it die.
The campaign reports that will come out in a few days likely will show that Senator Sanders fundraising has dried up some, while Senator Warren has taken in a record amount.
Senator Sanders is likely running out of the monetary resources needed to save his campaign. The question now is how much longer his campaign lasts.
On a philosophical note, in any effort it is a bad idea to surround yourself with the same type of people. Senator Sanders surrounded himself with senior staff that all had a vengeance complex, taking vengeance on those they believe did them wrong in 2016 seemed to be their primary objective.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Trenzalore
(2,331 posts)Mind you, he lost the rock throwing campaign last time, badly.
I'll vote for whoever the nominee is but Bernie is in last place with me for how he has behaved the past 4 years.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Ba2020
(20 posts)I was a big fan of him in 2016. I think he and especially Biden are past their prime time.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ritapria
(1,812 posts)All candidates not named Liz Warren are struggling ...Not just Bernard
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
dawg day
(7,947 posts)Warren especially. Here's a Harvard professor senator wonk, and she gets to Iowa, and she realizes the concerns there are different... but most important, figures out how they relate to her main policy themes.
The ability to stay true to yourself but adapt to your audience is very useful in a campaign. Think of Obama. He was/is always himself, but he always showed respect for those he was talking to and took the time to figure out how he could adapt his message to address what was important to them.
It might sound like manipulation but it really is respect.
(I think in the future, like we think of Churchill as the man who could change the world with a speech, we'll think of Obama as probably the best campaigner.)
Now as for Sanders, there's that point-- Can a candidate stand firm and true and also adapt? Without feeling like it's selling out?
(But he's still polling pretty well. We'll have to see the polls as the impeachment gets underway, as it becomes more likely it won't be Trump on the other side.)
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Joe941
(2,848 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
brooklynite
(94,703 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)have to drop out because he has a lot of money, no matter how poorly he does, and can hang in until no one's listening any more.
We should expect from grim experience that he will use that money to agitate against the left. It's hard to understand how he can see little difference between Democrats and Republicans, or why, that being the case, the left gets almost all his special brand of attention. But that's Sanders.
BUT, one the plus side, he might be sidelined at the convention and thus get relatively little press attention. Every primary he doesn't get 15% in means 0 delegates. If he doesn't accumulate and bring 300 delegates so they can put his name in nomination, certainly no one else will. He'll mostly just be there as one in a crowd of superdelegates.
Goals to strive for.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden