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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
 

Funtatlaguy

(10,855 posts)
Fri Sep 20, 2019, 07:49 AM Sep 2019

This Ukraine thing could help Joe Biden.

It puts foreign policy (Joes strong suit) front and center.
It makes Joe a sympathetic figure with Giuliani going after one of Biden’s sons not that long after his other son had died.
It creates a more chaotic atmosphere around Trump. And I think the more chaos the better for Biden because the country (and many Dems in the primary) will want a stable influence to offset Trumps years of lunacy and constant crisis.



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
50 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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This Ukraine thing could help Joe Biden. (Original Post) Funtatlaguy Sep 2019 OP
I've been saying.. I hope this BACKFIRES Cha Sep 2019 #1
People aren't going to start voting for another four-plus months BeyondGeography Sep 2019 #2
I see your point. So many supposed BIG things have died quickly. Funtatlaguy Sep 2019 #3
As a stand-alone issue it should be huge BeyondGeography Sep 2019 #4
EVERY CANDIDATE -- not just Biden -- should make an issue of this. If this story is true, it's highplainsdem Sep 2019 #7
Oh god. is that what he did?.. Cha Sep 2019 #10
If the Dems don't win the senate, this story could impeach Biden. floppyboo Sep 2019 #18
This happened in 2014-15. Biden was sent by prez Obama to deal with a crooked Ukrainian AG Thekaspervote Sep 2019 #38
This is no corn pop... agree every candidate should be talking non stop about this. Get it out there Thekaspervote Sep 2019 #31
Yes.. it's been a big deal all day.. Cha Sep 2019 #5
However DownriverDem Sep 2019 #12
Briefly, what is the Ukraine thing. Sorry to have to ask. CurtEastPoint Sep 2019 #6
You need to google it. Too complicated to explain here. Funtatlaguy Sep 2019 #8
See the link and all the replies, especially reply 9 for a link to more background: highplainsdem Sep 2019 #9
Thanks again.. I just had my link ready.. Cha Sep 2019 #11
John Harwood tweet: highplainsdem Sep 2019 #13
Yeah, that makes sense.. sounds like what the OP Cha Sep 2019 #25
The Ferret on this.. Cha Sep 2019 #30
maybe but those who consider these things as top issues JI7 Sep 2019 #14
It gives me hope that, if this is all they have on Biden, they don't have much. fleur-de-lisa Sep 2019 #15
Um no - It is about Joe. floppyboo Sep 2019 #20
See post #38 he wasn't in the Ukraine for his son!! Thekaspervote Sep 2019 #39
I have always worried they would try to capitalize on what got rolling with Bernie emmaverybo Sep 2019 #37
I think where it helps Biden is that it shows Trump REALLY fears him... Drunken Irishman Sep 2019 #16
If 'the Ukraine thing' diverts attention onto Hunter Biden crazytown Sep 2019 #17
Nope - the story is that Biden threatened the then Ukrainian gov't to fire the prosecutor floppyboo Sep 2019 #19
Is there information out there that contracts the WaPo account. crazytown Sep 2019 #21
this I don't know. I suspect they laugh at our outrage at corruption. floppyboo Sep 2019 #22
Back in 2014. Biden was sent by prez Obama to deal with a crooked AG. Thekaspervote Sep 2019 #40
+1 oasis Sep 2019 #49
We'll see how it goes.. Cha Sep 2019 #29
I don't see it hurting Joe Biden, crazytown Sep 2019 #33
I have no crystal ball.. we'll see. Cha Sep 2019 #34
If the whistleblower is Coates, as some have speculated, crazytown Sep 2019 #35
Here's hoping! Cha Sep 2019 #36
Oh that would be good news! I always kinda thought there was something behind that poker face Thekaspervote Sep 2019 #41
trump is clearly scared of Joe Biden Gothmog Sep 2019 #23
The Ferret! Thank you, Goth!!! Cha Sep 2019 #28
Actions speak louder than words-- Trump clearly fears Joe Biden as the nominee andym Sep 2019 #24
Well Trump's a moron jcgoldie Sep 2019 #43
He hates women. Only sees them as eye candy. Funtatlaguy Sep 2019 #46
I believe China will also have a favorite candidate in 2020. Sneederbunk Sep 2019 #26
Joe should say : "Bring it on baby!". oasis Sep 2019 #27
Indeed Thekaspervote Sep 2019 #32
Let's hope the MSM portrays Joe as having the best of intentions. nt oasis Sep 2019 #50
Should Biden Have Recused Himself To Avoid The Impression of Conflict? DrFunkenstein Sep 2019 #42
The hypocrisy when you look at the Trump mafia offspring and what those little shits are up to sunonmars Sep 2019 #44
They don't have the hypocrisy, shame, guilt, empathy genes. Funtatlaguy Sep 2019 #45
I was saying this exact thing to someone earlier. NCLefty Sep 2019 #47
This story has been investigated by the press and the press has found nothing Gothmog Sep 2019 #48
 

Cha

(295,899 posts)
1. I've been saying.. I hope this BACKFIRES
Fri Sep 20, 2019, 07:52 AM
Sep 2019

on their Traitorous Collective Ass

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BeyondGeography

(39,276 posts)
2. People aren't going to start voting for another four-plus months
Fri Sep 20, 2019, 07:52 AM
Sep 2019

This will rank right up there with Corn Pop by then.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Funtatlaguy

(10,855 posts)
3. I see your point. So many supposed BIG things have died quickly.
Fri Sep 20, 2019, 07:57 AM
Sep 2019

But, shouldn’t this be a pretty big deal if Trump Actually withheld monetary aid to another country as a quid pro quo for dirt on a political opponent.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BeyondGeography

(39,276 posts)
4. As a stand-alone issue it should be huge
Fri Sep 20, 2019, 08:01 AM
Sep 2019

But many have become numb to Trump’s corruption. Biden himself could and should make it an issue but if he overdoes it while others are talking about issues of direct relevance to people’s daily lives he runs a risk.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

highplainsdem

(48,718 posts)
7. EVERY CANDIDATE -- not just Biden -- should make an issue of this. If this story is true, it's
Fri Sep 20, 2019, 08:20 AM
Sep 2019

unquestionably an impeachable offense, and the clearest example so far.

I can't believe you compared this to the Corn Pop story.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Cha

(295,899 posts)
10. Oh god. is that what he did?..
Fri Sep 20, 2019, 08:23 AM
Sep 2019

I didn't even want to read it.

Thanks for your post, highplainsdem.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

floppyboo

(2,461 posts)
18. If the Dems don't win the senate, this story could impeach Biden.
Fri Sep 20, 2019, 11:25 AM
Sep 2019

IF, and it is only an indictment that was shelved by the previous Ukraine gov't, not a conviction, IF the Ukraine AG were to pursue the charges against the son, Biden's role in threatening to with hold funds will not be good.
Thing is, this is how international diplomacy has worked for millennia.
IF this is a partisan bluff, Trump wins.
IF its not - free Snowden and Assange!!!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Thekaspervote

(32,605 posts)
38. This happened in 2014-15. Biden was sent by prez Obama to deal with a crooked Ukrainian AG
Fri Sep 20, 2019, 06:01 PM
Sep 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Thekaspervote

(32,605 posts)
31. This is no corn pop... agree every candidate should be talking non stop about this. Get it out there
Fri Sep 20, 2019, 04:50 PM
Sep 2019

This is why he must go....go for it. A unified front by all the dem candidates will make them look that much stronger...each and everyone

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Cha

(295,899 posts)
5. Yes.. it's been a big deal all day..
Fri Sep 20, 2019, 08:03 AM
Sep 2019

we'll see how far it goes. Benjamin Wittes said it's "extortion if true".
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=287684

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

DownriverDem

(6,205 posts)
12. However
Fri Sep 20, 2019, 08:41 AM
Sep 2019

Biden is our best candidate to win the Electoral College which is state by state. Folks need to focus.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

CurtEastPoint

(18,548 posts)
6. Briefly, what is the Ukraine thing. Sorry to have to ask.
Fri Sep 20, 2019, 08:20 AM
Sep 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Funtatlaguy

(10,855 posts)
8. You need to google it. Too complicated to explain here.
Fri Sep 20, 2019, 08:21 AM
Sep 2019

Just enter Ukraine, Trump, Biden, Guiliani....

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

highplainsdem

(48,718 posts)
9. See the link and all the replies, especially reply 9 for a link to more background:
Fri Sep 20, 2019, 08:22 AM
Sep 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

highplainsdem

(48,718 posts)
13. John Harwood tweet:
Fri Sep 20, 2019, 09:00 AM
Sep 2019








whistleblower/Ukraine story may do two things at once:

-increase Democratic appetite for impeachment

-help Biden by underscoring Trump’s fear of his nomination
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Cha

(295,899 posts)
25. Yeah, that makes sense.. sounds like what the OP
Fri Sep 20, 2019, 04:36 PM
Sep 2019

was wondering about.



"Corn pop" my Democratic

Thank you, highplains!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

JI7

(89,172 posts)
14. maybe but those who consider these things as top issues
Fri Sep 20, 2019, 09:05 AM
Sep 2019

are already supporting him.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

fleur-de-lisa

(14,615 posts)
15. It gives me hope that, if this is all they have on Biden, they don't have much.
Fri Sep 20, 2019, 10:30 AM
Sep 2019

I've been a little worried the republicans might try to smear him with allegations of misconduct with women.

I don't believe for a second that Biden has ever behaved inappropriately, but in the past that hasn't stopped republicans from finding women willing to lie about sexual misconduct (Al Franken, for example).

And this story (if there is one) isn't even about Joe Biden, but his son. They are grasping at nothing.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

floppyboo

(2,461 posts)
20. Um no - It is about Joe.
Fri Sep 20, 2019, 11:59 AM
Sep 2019

It's about the exact same things Trump is being accused of. The indictment is against Hunter, but it involves Joe getting him off the hook with 'promises'.
If this doesn't go anywhere, good. Politics has always worked this way.
OR: if it doesn't go anywhere, I am making a new shirt: "I am Gislaine Maxwell". Corruption/power leverage is oxygen to these people.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Thekaspervote

(32,605 posts)
39. See post #38 he wasn't in the Ukraine for his son!!
Fri Sep 20, 2019, 06:03 PM
Sep 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

emmaverybo

(8,144 posts)
37. I have always worried they would try to capitalize on what got rolling with Bernie
Fri Sep 20, 2019, 05:49 PM
Sep 2019

Sander’s former campaign surrogate, Linda Flores, and her “uncomfortable” narrative.

I also do not believe Biden has been sexually inappropriate with women in word or deed, but if he does become the nominee, we can expect such a charge as one of their line of attacks.

Whomever is our nominee, we must not let our fight for the presidency this time be thrown off track.

Unfortunately, MSM, even sources called liberal, has been all too willing to take up for the opposition. After all, they love a good story based on controversy.

We will have to do our due diligence when the time comes because though Trump and MSM have
Biden in their sights now, if another candidate assumes front running status, the sharks will come
circling him or her.









If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Drunken Irishman

(34,857 posts)
16. I think where it helps Biden is that it shows Trump REALLY fears him...
Fri Sep 20, 2019, 10:43 AM
Sep 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

crazytown

(7,277 posts)
17. If 'the Ukraine thing' diverts attention onto Hunter Biden
Fri Sep 20, 2019, 10:48 AM
Sep 2019

it will not help Joe. VP Biden did nothing wrong, but Hunter was trading on the appearance of inflenence.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

floppyboo

(2,461 posts)
19. Nope - the story is that Biden threatened the then Ukrainian gov't to fire the prosecutor
Fri Sep 20, 2019, 11:29 AM
Sep 2019

And if they didn't, funds would be with held.
Sound familiar?
The Guardian had some great background on this, if you want to avoid right wing sites (suggested!)

edit: So, the complaint was shelved. The new Ukrainian AG has said he won't re-open the case unless the US AG requests to re-open the case.

edit: What was in Victoria Neuland's cookies? Now, there's a recipe

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

crazytown

(7,277 posts)
21. Is there information out there that contracts the WaPo account.
Fri Sep 20, 2019, 12:07 PM
Sep 2019
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/05/08/why-joe-bidens-alleged-ukraine-conspiracy-doesnt-hold-up/

The prosecutor that ws sacked was going slow on everything, including Nazi groups - correct?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

floppyboo

(2,461 posts)
22. this I don't know. I suspect they laugh at our outrage at corruption.
Fri Sep 20, 2019, 12:11 PM
Sep 2019

Their ball of wool is more tightly wound then anything in the 'new world'. Pull all you want at those loose bits. I'm sure its all dense felt in the middle.

edit: maybe you could copy/paste some of the link you point to above? I don't have access.
edit: or link the primary sources (usually free). I would rather form my own opinion rather than have it shaped by a CIA funded rag.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Thekaspervote

(32,605 posts)
40. Back in 2014. Biden was sent by prez Obama to deal with a crooked AG.
Fri Sep 20, 2019, 06:05 PM
Sep 2019

You’re trying to hard

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Cha

(295,899 posts)
29. We'll see how it goes..
Fri Sep 20, 2019, 04:46 PM
Sep 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

crazytown

(7,277 posts)
33. I don't see it hurting Joe Biden,
Fri Sep 20, 2019, 04:55 PM
Sep 2019

but not helping him either.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Cha

(295,899 posts)
34. I have no crystal ball.. we'll see.
Fri Sep 20, 2019, 04:58 PM
Sep 2019
I hope it BackFires on the treasonous idiots, somehow!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

crazytown

(7,277 posts)
35. If the whistleblower is Coates, as some have speculated,
Fri Sep 20, 2019, 05:03 PM
Sep 2019

Last edited Sat Sep 21, 2019, 02:01 AM - Edit history (1)

the complaint could be very serious indeed, and wound Dump beyond measure.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Cha

(295,899 posts)
36. Here's hoping!
Fri Sep 20, 2019, 05:48 PM
Sep 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Thekaspervote

(32,605 posts)
41. Oh that would be good news! I always kinda thought there was something behind that poker face
Fri Sep 20, 2019, 06:07 PM
Sep 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Gothmog

(143,998 posts)
23. trump is clearly scared of Joe Biden
Fri Sep 20, 2019, 12:46 PM
Sep 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Cha

(295,899 posts)
28. The Ferret! Thank you, Goth!!!
Fri Sep 20, 2019, 04:45 PM
Sep 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

andym

(5,441 posts)
24. Actions speak louder than words-- Trump clearly fears Joe Biden as the nominee
Fri Sep 20, 2019, 12:57 PM
Sep 2019

Trump clearly fears Joe, probably because of the polling. He also likely fears Elizabeth because of the crowd size in NY last week and her populist appeal. Anyone drawing vast crowds, challenging his populist appeal or polling vastly better than him will have Trump's attention.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

jcgoldie

(11,582 posts)
43. Well Trump's a moron
Fri Sep 20, 2019, 06:29 PM
Sep 2019

Why should we care who he fears or doesn't?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Funtatlaguy

(10,855 posts)
46. He hates women. Only sees them as eye candy.
Fri Sep 20, 2019, 08:57 PM
Sep 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Sneederbunk

(14,207 posts)
26. I believe China will also have a favorite candidate in 2020.
Fri Sep 20, 2019, 04:39 PM
Sep 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

oasis

(49,150 posts)
27. Joe should say : "Bring it on baby!".
Fri Sep 20, 2019, 04:41 PM
Sep 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Thekaspervote

(32,605 posts)
32. Indeed
Fri Sep 20, 2019, 04:52 PM
Sep 2019

Here’s a snip from Salon.com that puts this into perspective

While it may look as if Biden exploited the loan money as leverage in order to kill an investigation into a corporation that employed his son, Bloomberg learned that the Burisma investigation had been shuttled to the back burner in 2015 before Biden’s trip and, the report added, the Obama administration’s intention was to convince the Ukrainian government to crack down on corruption in general.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

oasis

(49,150 posts)
50. Let's hope the MSM portrays Joe as having the best of intentions. nt
Sun Sep 22, 2019, 08:44 AM
Sep 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

DrFunkenstein

(8,745 posts)
42. Should Biden Have Recused Himself To Avoid The Impression of Conflict?
Fri Sep 20, 2019, 06:24 PM
Sep 2019

While it seems like Rosemont Seneca conducted all kinds of deals that could be construed as unethical given the position of access that the sons of Biden and Kerry possessed while making in numerous international deals, I seriously doubt that anything rose to the level of illegality.

I know that Trump has taken a big leak on governmental ethics, but our leaders are supposed to recuse themselves to avoid even the least possibility of conflict of interest.

I am hardly claiming to know all the facts, but I did find this:

Biden described how he threatened Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko in March 2016 that the Obama administration would pull $1 billion in U.S. loan guarantees, sending the former Soviet republic toward insolvency, if it didn’t immediately fire Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin.

“I said, ‘You’re not getting the billion.’ I’m going to be leaving here in, I think it was about six hours. I looked at them and said: ‘I’m leaving in six hours. If the prosecutor is not fired, you’re not getting the money,’” Biden recalled telling Poroshenko.

“Well, son of a bitch, he got fired. And they put in place someone who was solid at the time,” Biden told the Council on Foreign Relations event, insisting that President Obama was in on the threat.


https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/436816-joe-bidens-2020-ukrainian-nightmare-a-closed-probe-is-revived

Given his son was a board member the natural gas firm Burisma Holdings at the center of the wide-ranging corruption probe led by the guy prosecutor who got fired, I'd venture that Biden should have known that a recusal was the right way to go. Someone else could have led the negotiations at a personal level.

My guess is that this conversation elevates Biden to a rival of Trump, which helps him, but it may not leave him smelling very sweetly. Then again, do the American people even notice these sorts of thing?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

sunonmars

(8,656 posts)
44. The hypocrisy when you look at the Trump mafia offspring and what those little shits are up to
Fri Sep 20, 2019, 08:47 PM
Sep 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Funtatlaguy

(10,855 posts)
45. They don't have the hypocrisy, shame, guilt, empathy genes.
Fri Sep 20, 2019, 08:56 PM
Sep 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

NCLefty

(3,678 posts)
47. I was saying this exact thing to someone earlier.
Sat Sep 21, 2019, 02:28 AM
Sep 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Gothmog

(143,998 posts)
48. This story has been investigated by the press and the press has found nothing
Sat Sep 21, 2019, 01:08 PM
Sep 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
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