Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumThis Ukraine thing could help Joe Biden.
It puts foreign policy (Joes strong suit) front and center.
It makes Joe a sympathetic figure with Giuliani going after one of Bidens sons not that long after his other son had died.
It creates a more chaotic atmosphere around Trump. And I think the more chaos the better for Biden because the country (and many Dems in the primary) will want a stable influence to offset Trumps years of lunacy and constant crisis.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(295,899 posts)on their Traitorous Collective Ass
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BeyondGeography
(39,276 posts)This will rank right up there with Corn Pop by then.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Funtatlaguy
(10,855 posts)But, shouldnt this be a pretty big deal if Trump Actually withheld monetary aid to another country as a quid pro quo for dirt on a political opponent.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BeyondGeography
(39,276 posts)But many have become numb to Trumps corruption. Biden himself could and should make it an issue but if he overdoes it while others are talking about issues of direct relevance to peoples daily lives he runs a risk.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
highplainsdem
(48,718 posts)unquestionably an impeachable offense, and the clearest example so far.
I can't believe you compared this to the Corn Pop story.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(295,899 posts)I didn't even want to read it.
Thanks for your post, highplainsdem.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
floppyboo
(2,461 posts)IF, and it is only an indictment that was shelved by the previous Ukraine gov't, not a conviction, IF the Ukraine AG were to pursue the charges against the son, Biden's role in threatening to with hold funds will not be good.
Thing is, this is how international diplomacy has worked for millennia.
IF this is a partisan bluff, Trump wins.
IF its not - free Snowden and Assange!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Thekaspervote
(32,605 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Thekaspervote
(32,605 posts)This is why he must go....go for it. A unified front by all the dem candidates will make them look that much stronger...each and everyone
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(295,899 posts)we'll see how far it goes. Benjamin Wittes said it's "extortion if true".
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=287684
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DownriverDem
(6,205 posts)Biden is our best candidate to win the Electoral College which is state by state. Folks need to focus.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
CurtEastPoint
(18,548 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Funtatlaguy
(10,855 posts)Just enter Ukraine, Trump, Biden, Guiliani....
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
highplainsdem
(48,718 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(295,899 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
highplainsdem
(48,718 posts)Link to tweet
whistleblower/Ukraine story may do two things at once:
-increase Democratic appetite for impeachment
-help Biden by underscoring Trumps fear of his nomination
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(295,899 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(295,899 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JI7
(89,172 posts)are already supporting him.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
fleur-de-lisa
(14,615 posts)I've been a little worried the republicans might try to smear him with allegations of misconduct with women.
I don't believe for a second that Biden has ever behaved inappropriately, but in the past that hasn't stopped republicans from finding women willing to lie about sexual misconduct (Al Franken, for example).
And this story (if there is one) isn't even about Joe Biden, but his son. They are grasping at nothing.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
floppyboo
(2,461 posts)It's about the exact same things Trump is being accused of. The indictment is against Hunter, but it involves Joe getting him off the hook with 'promises'.
If this doesn't go anywhere, good. Politics has always worked this way.
OR: if it doesn't go anywhere, I am making a new shirt: "I am Gislaine Maxwell". Corruption/power leverage is oxygen to these people.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Thekaspervote
(32,605 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)Sanders former campaign surrogate, Linda Flores, and her uncomfortable narrative.
I also do not believe Biden has been sexually inappropriate with women in word or deed, but if he does become the nominee, we can expect such a charge as one of their line of attacks.
Whomever is our nominee, we must not let our fight for the presidency this time be thrown off track.
Unfortunately, MSM, even sources called liberal, has been all too willing to take up for the opposition. After all, they love a good story based on controversy.
We will have to do our due diligence when the time comes because though Trump and MSM have
Biden in their sights now, if another candidate assumes front running status, the sharks will come
circling him or her.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Drunken Irishman
(34,857 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
crazytown
(7,277 posts)it will not help Joe. VP Biden did nothing wrong, but Hunter was trading on the appearance of inflenence.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
floppyboo
(2,461 posts)And if they didn't, funds would be with held.
Sound familiar?
The Guardian had some great background on this, if you want to avoid right wing sites (suggested!)
edit: So, the complaint was shelved. The new Ukrainian AG has said he won't re-open the case unless the US AG requests to re-open the case.
edit: What was in Victoria Neuland's cookies? Now, there's a recipe
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
crazytown
(7,277 posts)The prosecutor that ws sacked was going slow on everything, including Nazi groups - correct?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
floppyboo
(2,461 posts)Their ball of wool is more tightly wound then anything in the 'new world'. Pull all you want at those loose bits. I'm sure its all dense felt in the middle.
edit: maybe you could copy/paste some of the link you point to above? I don't have access.
edit: or link the primary sources (usually free). I would rather form my own opinion rather than have it shaped by a CIA funded rag.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Thekaspervote
(32,605 posts)Youre trying to hard
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(295,899 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
crazytown
(7,277 posts)but not helping him either.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Cha
(295,899 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
crazytown
(7,277 posts)Last edited Sat Sep 21, 2019, 02:01 AM - Edit history (1)
the complaint could be very serious indeed, and wound Dump beyond measure.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Cha
(295,899 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Thekaspervote
(32,605 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(143,998 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(295,899 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
andym
(5,441 posts)Trump clearly fears Joe, probably because of the polling. He also likely fears Elizabeth because of the crowd size in NY last week and her populist appeal. Anyone drawing vast crowds, challenging his populist appeal or polling vastly better than him will have Trump's attention.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
jcgoldie
(11,582 posts)Why should we care who he fears or doesn't?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Funtatlaguy
(10,855 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Sneederbunk
(14,207 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
oasis
(49,150 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Thekaspervote
(32,605 posts)Heres a snip from Salon.com that puts this into perspective
While it may look as if Biden exploited the loan money as leverage in order to kill an investigation into a corporation that employed his son, Bloomberg learned that the Burisma investigation had been shuttled to the back burner in 2015 before Bidens trip and, the report added, the Obama administrations intention was to convince the Ukrainian government to crack down on corruption in general.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
oasis
(49,150 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DrFunkenstein
(8,745 posts)While it seems like Rosemont Seneca conducted all kinds of deals that could be construed as unethical given the position of access that the sons of Biden and Kerry possessed while making in numerous international deals, I seriously doubt that anything rose to the level of illegality.
I know that Trump has taken a big leak on governmental ethics, but our leaders are supposed to recuse themselves to avoid even the least possibility of conflict of interest.
I am hardly claiming to know all the facts, but I did find this:
Biden described how he threatened Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko in March 2016 that the Obama administration would pull $1 billion in U.S. loan guarantees, sending the former Soviet republic toward insolvency, if it didnt immediately fire Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin.
I said, Youre not getting the billion. Im going to be leaving here in, I think it was about six hours. I looked at them and said: Im leaving in six hours. If the prosecutor is not fired, youre not getting the money, Biden recalled telling Poroshenko.
Well, son of a bitch, he got fired. And they put in place someone who was solid at the time, Biden told the Council on Foreign Relations event, insisting that President Obama was in on the threat.
https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/436816-joe-bidens-2020-ukrainian-nightmare-a-closed-probe-is-revived
Given his son was a board member the natural gas firm Burisma Holdings at the center of the wide-ranging corruption probe led by the guy prosecutor who got fired, I'd venture that Biden should have known that a recusal was the right way to go. Someone else could have led the negotiations at a personal level.
My guess is that this conversation elevates Biden to a rival of Trump, which helps him, but it may not leave him smelling very sweetly. Then again, do the American people even notice these sorts of thing?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
sunonmars
(8,656 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Funtatlaguy
(10,855 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NCLefty
(3,678 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Gothmog
(143,998 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden