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Prosper

(761 posts)
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 05:59 PM Sep 2019

Centrist politicians are denying the reality of lower

standard of living and abject poverty resulting from expanding numbers of robots removing human labor. There will be a need for sweeping social programs to provide a living for displaced workers.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
28 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Centrist politicians are denying the reality of lower (Original Post) Prosper Sep 2019 OP
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Sep 2019 #1
Which politicians are you refering to, specifically, that are denying this? ehrnst Sep 2019 #2
Centrist Democrats who have voted Democratic for sometimes decades elocs Sep 2019 #13
Andrew Yang is centrist and his UBI proposal is based on automation JI7 Sep 2019 #3
I honestly do not see much difference between centrists and right wingers. LonePirate Sep 2019 #4
That's an interesting take. BannonsLiver Sep 2019 #8
You're not the only one to see it that way. PETRUS Sep 2019 #14
That's laughable. TwilightZone Sep 2019 #17
The one blogger I stopped to read was clearly in on the joke. PETRUS Sep 2019 #28
If one looks at the "Political Compass"... mwooldri Sep 2019 #18
Political Compass doesn't apply very well to American politics. TwilightZone Sep 2019 #19
The farther one is a away, the closer others appear to be to each other. Kaleva Sep 2019 #21
Who are you talking about? I haven't heard anything like this from comradebillyboy Sep 2019 #5
Let me use one thing to describe the destructive result Prosper Sep 2019 #22
It's worth noting that Sanders' social programs assume people are working and paying taxes... brooklynite Sep 2019 #6
Sanders taxing derivatives is the first step in penalizing zero Prosper Sep 2019 #23
Who? In what way? BannonsLiver Sep 2019 #7
Sanders hasn't talked about it. but centrist Andrew yang is so im JI7 Sep 2019 #16
Rec'd. If you're not retiring gldstwmn Sep 2019 #9
Maybe it's time to reduce the work week. Mr.Bill Sep 2019 #10
Who's denying that? zaj Sep 2019 #11
in a normal Democracy centrist wouldn't be such a dirty word yaesu Sep 2019 #12
Economists and sociologists made the same argument in the 1920s bucolic_frolic Sep 2019 #15
"As long as we can expand consumer demand to buy" Prosper Sep 2019 #20
Then the problem is income inequality, not robots as the OP stated bucolic_frolic Sep 2019 #24
Income inequality Prosper Sep 2019 #25
What if most everything sold in the US was made in the US? What would happen to employment then? Farmer-Rick Sep 2019 #26
Farmer-Rick said: Prosper Sep 2019 #27
 

Uncle Joe

(58,112 posts)
1. Kicked and recommended.
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 06:02 PM
Sep 2019

Thanks for the thread Prosper.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
2. Which politicians are you refering to, specifically, that are denying this?
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 06:05 PM
Sep 2019

The term "centrist" gets tossed around a lot as a vague perjorative. Indeed, I've heard Elizabeth Warren called that by certain segments of DU, and we both know how silly that is.

I'm sure you are more articulate, and won't fall into that trap.

You'll certainly be clearer, I'm sure.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

elocs

(22,474 posts)
13. Centrist Democrats who have voted Democratic for sometimes decades
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 07:18 PM
Sep 2019

regularly get smeared as "DINOs" and "Republican Lite" by those who believe we are not liberal enough for them even though about half of those who call themselves Democrats consider themselves to be moderates or even, gasp!, conservative Democrats.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

JI7

(89,182 posts)
3. Andrew Yang is centrist and his UBI proposal is based on automation
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 06:06 PM
Sep 2019

taking away jobs.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

LonePirate

(13,386 posts)
4. I honestly do not see much difference between centrists and right wingers.
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 06:16 PM
Sep 2019

Granted, most centrists are not racists like your typical right-winger. Otherwise there is not much daylight between them, especially on NIMBY types of issues at the core of the housing crisis in this country.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

BannonsLiver

(16,162 posts)
8. That's an interesting take.
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 06:20 PM
Sep 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

PETRUS

(3,678 posts)
14. You're not the only one to see it that way.
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 07:40 PM
Sep 2019

I've bumped into the following graphic several times (occasionally with commentary) while browsing the internet:

If I were to vote in a presidential
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TwilightZone

(25,342 posts)
17. That's laughable.
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 08:00 PM
Sep 2019

Perhaps the people who posted it don't realize that it was made to satirize the "horseshoe" theory that the right likes to use to criticize the left.

It's equally nonsensical. The difference is that, for the most part, the fishhook theory was *intended* to be nonsense, mocking the horseshoe theory.

"Critiques of the theory lead to alternative, equally fanciful squiggles such as the "question mark" or "fish hook" theory, which suggests the center and far-right have common ground.[4][5]"

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory

"While there have been cases made for the fish hook theory, it is has not been widely studied in political theory and it mostly inhabits popular discourse, as a means of satire intended to discredit the horseshoe theory."

https://en.everybodywiki.com/Fish_hook_theory

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

PETRUS

(3,678 posts)
28. The one blogger I stopped to read was clearly in on the joke.
Thu Sep 19, 2019, 06:47 PM
Sep 2019

He/she used it as launching pad for a few salient points. Among them, that the horseshoe theory is nonsense, and that what is described as "centrism" in the US is to the right of the majority of the public, and also that the support of "centrists" has often been essential to the implementation/perpetuation of right wing policies.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

mwooldri

(10,291 posts)
18. If one looks at the "Political Compass"...
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 08:09 PM
Sep 2019

... one would see that the vast majority of candidates are more on the right wing economically and more on the authoritarian scale as well.

https://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2020

And politically Bernie Sanders is to the right of Jeremy Corbyn - someone who Bernie gets compared with a lot. Elizabeth Warren is close to Bernie ideologically. The closest Democratic candidates to Trump/Pence politically are Pete Buttigeig and Beto O'Rourke.

One big thing that did shock me... Both Trump and Pence are to the right of (and more authoritarian than) Margaret Thatcher... go figure...

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

TwilightZone

(25,342 posts)
19. Political Compass doesn't apply very well to American politics.
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 08:27 PM
Sep 2019

It's heavily Euro-centric, which is why some of the comparisons don't seem to make a lot of sense.

A better US-centric site:

https://ontheissues.org/

It better accounts for the scale of US politics. For example, it shows Buttigeig as a moderate liberal, but nowhere near Trump. I don't think it can be argued that they are even remotely similar politically. Most of our candidates are center-left or liberals.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Kaleva

(36,147 posts)
21. The farther one is a away, the closer others appear to be to each other.
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 10:20 PM
Sep 2019

For Freepers, The Bush's, Clinton's, Romney and Obama appear to be part of the same group.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

comradebillyboy

(10,119 posts)
5. Who are you talking about? I haven't heard anything like this from
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 06:16 PM
Sep 2019

any of our presidential candidates. Is there a source for your assertion?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Prosper

(761 posts)
22. Let me use one thing to describe the destructive result
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 10:27 PM
Sep 2019

of centrist capitulation. Commodities Futures Modernization Act. It allowed the deviation of money from goods and services jobs to speculative paper trading. The money for products jobs then went into zero velocity securities securitizing disassociated betting on non related outcomes. That was the introduction of the electronic robot taking jobs.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

brooklynite

(93,873 posts)
6. It's worth noting that Sanders' social programs assume people are working and paying taxes...
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 06:16 PM
Sep 2019

A safety net for people displaced by automation with result in substantially higher costs than he's been talking about.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Prosper

(761 posts)
23. Sanders taxing derivatives is the first step in penalizing zero
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 10:32 PM
Sep 2019

velocity money back into the economy. Taxing speculative gambling will steer money back into the working economy. That results with spenders getting money to spend creating prosperity and generating tax income .

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided
 

JI7

(89,182 posts)
16. Sanders hasn't talked about it. but centrist Andrew yang is so im
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 07:42 PM
Sep 2019

not sure what the OP is on about.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
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gldstwmn

(4,575 posts)
9. Rec'd. If you're not retiring
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 06:20 PM
Sep 2019

in the next 5-10 years this is something that is going to affect you profoundly.

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Mr.Bill

(24,104 posts)
10. Maybe it's time to reduce the work week.
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 06:29 PM
Sep 2019

40 Hours has been the standard for a very ling time.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

zaj

(3,433 posts)
11. Who's denying that?
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 06:50 PM
Sep 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

yaesu

(8,020 posts)
12. in a normal Democracy centrist wouldn't be such a dirty word
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 06:59 PM
Sep 2019

as leadership would respond to the needs of all income levels, helping level the playing field, a government for the people by the people including the poorest to the richest, BUT

We haven't been that kind of Democracy for decades, and we are no longer even a Democracy. Because of the lopsided government rule benefiting the wealthiest for so long centrists would do more damage than good. We need a progressive government to even the score, reverse the decades of majority benefits going to the wealthiest Americans.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

bucolic_frolic

(42,678 posts)
15. Economists and sociologists made the same argument in the 1920s
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 07:41 PM
Sep 2019

only back then the perceived agent of unemployment was the assembly line and power tools.

As long as we can expand consumer demand to buy the output, it won't make a difference to employment, and more and more people can be employed designing, building, maintaining, operating the robots.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Prosper

(761 posts)
20. "As long as we can expand consumer demand to buy"
Wed Sep 18, 2019, 10:11 PM
Sep 2019

Consumer demand is money. The financier motivation is cheaper, faster and easier. That translates into billionaires accumulating more money, money that won’t get into the hands of people that will spend it. Critical cash has already been approached as half the people can’t come up with $400 in an emergency.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

bucolic_frolic

(42,678 posts)
24. Then the problem is income inequality, not robots as the OP stated
Thu Sep 19, 2019, 07:37 AM
Sep 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Prosper

(761 posts)
25. Income inequality
Thu Sep 19, 2019, 08:33 AM
Sep 2019

produced by the motivation of cheaper, faster and easier. Considering labor expendable totally without any consideration. 50 years of laws passed to facilitate the upward transfer of wealth are filling sidewalks, corners and abandoned areas with the homeless. DC has been moving homeless people into $2200 a month apartments with vouchers taking care of the rent.*

*https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-politics/dc-housed-the-homeless-in-upscale-apartments-it-hasnt-gone-as-planned/2019/04/16/60c8ab9c-5648-11e9-8ef3-fbd41a2ce4d5_story.html%3foutputType=amp

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided
 

Farmer-Rick

(10,072 posts)
26. What if most everything sold in the US was made in the US? What would happen to employment then?
Thu Sep 19, 2019, 10:01 AM
Sep 2019

I say most everything because some things like French wine (but not wine in general) can not be made in the US.

If all those huge factories in China, India and other countries that sell their crap here were to be here providing those jobs to us then we would not need to worry about robots.

It's not robots taking away our jobs it's really bad Economic policy and CEOs. It's the capitalist kings who moved our jobs to foreign shores who are stealing our jobs and our national wealth.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Prosper

(761 posts)
27. Farmer-Rick said:
Thu Sep 19, 2019, 11:48 AM
Sep 2019

“It's not robots taking away our jobs it's really bad Economic policy and CEOs. It's the capitalist kings who moved our jobs to foreign shores who are stealing our jobs and our national wealth.”

The motivation of opportunistic financiers is: “Cheaper Faster Easier”. The opportunistic financiers that took hope and fulfillment away from US workers consider everything and everybody to be expendable. The opposite of these event oriented opportunistic financiers are institutional oriented financiers that build companies that make products to sell. These factories get their value from the income and profit they make.

Institutions are social creations that give good livings and hope and satisfaction to citizens. Repeals are needed to terminate all the laws that created and legalized side betting on stocks and trade. Antitrust laws have to be put back into effect preventing hoarding of money into stagnated securitising positions. Wealth belongs to individuals but money that is the lifeblood of an economy belongs to the people and belongs in the economy that gives life to the people.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
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