Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumHow the GM workers strike makes Bernie Sanders's case for Medicare-for-all
(snip)
United Auto Workers at General Motors has long had what has been called the gold standard in union-negotiated health care plans: Workers pay little to nothing toward co-payments and deductibles, and each employee covers roughly 3 percent of the cost. For comparison, the average worker directly pays 28 percent of health care costs. Its a benefit the union was able to largely keep intact through the auto industry crisis in 2009, and it has sacrificed wage and pension raises to maintain it. This is the kind of health care plan Biden is talking about when he warns about Medicare-for-all.
This argument is playing out in real time. Thousands of GM employees are on strike this week in a bid for better wages and benefits and to address concerns for temporary workers. GM dealt its employees union, the United Auto Workers, an incredible blow on Tuesday; Employees generous health care plan is being used as leverage to get workers to cross the picket line.
GM has cut off health benefits to striking employees, shifting the cost to the workers and in turn the union. UAW has offered striking members COBRA health care, which allows them to continue medical and prescription drugs coverage, but it doesnt include dental, vision, hearing, and accident insurance.
The company had essentially spelled out Sanderss counterargument for him. As employers use health care costs as a negotiation tactic, this kind of thing is bound to happen more. And for Sanders, its the perfect case for doing away with the current system.
(snip)
https://www.vox.com/2019/9/18/20872116/general-motors-uaw-strike-medicare-for-all-biden-union
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
brooklynite
(94,502 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
bluewater
(5,376 posts)It would be interesting to see an in-depth poll of union workers on how satisfied they are with their healthcare and what direction they want to take going forward.
one question should be:
"Would you rather have your employer's contribution to your healthcare insurance show up in your paycheck instead and pay for Medicare for All at a lower overall cost?"
For some reason, I doubt that question would be asked.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
brooklynite
(94,502 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
bluewater
(5,376 posts)I am sure the IRS has DETAILED records of what corporations deduct for employee health insurance.
Why should the corporations be allowed to keep that money going forward unless corrupt politicians allow them too?
Oh, sure, I bet a lot of corporations, with their lobbyists and lawyers, will want to try to keep it, but we don't have to let them get away with that. Do we?
Why would any union allow the corporations to get away with outright thievery?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
brooklynite
(94,502 posts)Once ACA disappears, there's no legal way to say that what employers USED to spend on health care has to go to employees.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
bluewater
(5,376 posts)Medicare for All will require new legislation, wouldn't it?
And that new legislation would also be binding law.
If the issue goes to the courts, I am sure the legality of such a provision in a Medicare for All Bill would prevail.
In any case, the legality of the law would certainly be litigated before it's provisions are put into effect, so we would see.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
comradebillyboy
(10,143 posts)congressional support to ever exist.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
bluewater
(5,376 posts)Ok, I get your point, but right now BOTH Medicare for All and ACA with a public option face stiff opposition from the health insurance industry and the rThugs.
All we can do is to fight them or give up. The status quo is untenable, we have to work hard for change.
Personally, I expect we will start with incremental improvements and build on those over time.
But to reject either Medicare for All or the ACA with a public option out of hand, as the health insurance industry wants to, is unacceptable.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JI7
(89,247 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Celerity
(43,314 posts)https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/the-challenge-to-obamacare-and-a-legal-question-does-what-politicians-say-matter
https://www.ama-assn.org/delivering-care/patient-support-advocacy/texas-v-azar-decision
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NYMinute
(3,256 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TexasTowelie
(112,118 posts)and not be declared unconstitutional? The Supreme Court came to a 5-4 decision about the constitutionality of the ACA and the court is more conservative than when that decision was made.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
forthemiddle
(1,379 posts)But I dont get their contribution in my paycheck now. Why would that change in the future?
I dont know of any company that does that if you dont take the insurance.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Tennessee Tuxedo
(36 posts)Have great health insurance for me and my family, pay very little for it. I prefer to keep my own plan over MfA. Many union families I think will have the same opinion, could be wrong?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
fleabiscuit
(4,542 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Celerity
(43,314 posts)your employer is paying up the arse for a very expensive plan.
MFA will never pass for decades due to the RW tectonic shift to the electoral landscape by gerrymandering and systemic voter suppression, BUT anyone who thinks that the private, for-profit US healthcare system is not ripping off trillions from the overall populace is delusional.
You think the US per capita spending on healthcare (by FAR the highest in the world) is bad now, wait until the 3.6 or so trillion per year spent now becomes close to SIX trillion per year by around 2030.
Wealth extraction, that the name of the game, it sure isn't providing great health for a fair and efficient cost.
Dr. Billy Bigbollocks the specialist, and the pharma exec who legally bribes him off to make sure he is meeting quota on the scripts, and the insurance VP who makes sure that he himself always, always gets P-A-I-D whilst denying the fuck out legit claims, well, they all need NEW Lambos baby, vrooom vrooom.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NYMinute
(3,256 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Celerity
(43,314 posts)be lower, probably vastly lower, for the majority of people. Also, and this is especially germane to the union workers, the large chunk of their paycheck that is now taken by the employer to pay for the healthcare plans would go back to the workers.
The whole point is moot anyway, as MFA is dead on arrival. I highly doubt even the Public Option will pass. Hell, we will be lucky to even claw back the ACA if the SCOTUS strikes the whole thing down next year.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NYMinute
(3,256 posts)No one has actually crunched the numbers.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Celerity
(43,314 posts)going forward under the current system.
The U.S. Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (the official government department) show that between 2018 to 2027 the US, under its current system, will spend close to 50 trillion USD for that 10 year period, with the 2027 level being close to 6 trillion for just that one year.
https://www.cms.gov/Research-Statistics-Data-and-Systems/Statistics-Trends-and-Reports/NationalHealthExpendData/Downloads/ForecastSummary.pdf
So far, much of the analysis, some of it by right wing groups, some of it by left wing and centrists, show MFA costing somewhere between 32 trillion and 40 trillion when all US government spending on healthcare is factored in, and due to MFA taking over all but a tiny, tiny slice of the spending pie for all US healthcare, you are thus looking at a savings overall of between 6 to 14 trillion for just that 10 year period (depending on what you peg the MFA total cost to be.) I arrived at that number by assuming a full 10% of all US healthcare costs would NOT be covered by MFA, which I think is a very high number, BUT I did not want to be accused of tilting the playing field in MFA's favour.
Bottom line, none of this matters, as MFA is NEVER going to pass for probably decades, if ever. There will be literally WELL over 100 trillion dollars (probably closer to 125 trillion given the current rates of increase) spent by the US population as a whole over the next 20 years on total healthcare costs. That means trillions of dollars in profits. The systemic controllers in Big Healthcare (hospitals and doctors, etc), Big Insurance, and Big Pharma will never allow that to be taken away.
Our current system is broken, but I see almost no chance to totally fix it, the best we can hope for is to try and pass a public option and do something to contain the insane pharma prices that the US pays versus all other advanced nations in the world. I am very much a pessimist on the chances for a public option to even pass (as I have laid out multiple times before) and t is going to take a shit tonne of political capital to just slap down the rapacious pharma consortium. Furthermore, IF the SCOTUS next year strikes down the ACA in its entirely (and there is a damn good chance it does, unfortunately, and if not next year, sometime down the road), good luck even clawing back something similar to to it.
The political and social culture here in the US is simply too manipulated to move to any sort of truly efficient, truly universal healthcare, which I will end with by saying, MFA is NOT, by a long shot, the only way to get to.
Sanders and Warren are selling pipe-dreams (mainly because they will NEVER get their plans passed), all I am saying is that some form of their plans, or some other type of plan WOULD work. A shame we are not going to find out for any of the plans (any of the plans all of our candidates are pushing, plus many other types they are not), as the system itself will block it.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NYMinute
(3,256 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
PatrickforO
(14,570 posts)union membership has decreased significantly.
I'm fine with you keeping your union coverage - cool with me. But I want Medicare, because I have employer provided insurance in a non-union (actually anti-union) environment, and it is shitty, rationed healthcare with financially crippling copays.
That said, ANYONE who is elected will have to negotiate with both houses of Congress, and that negotiation will result in a compromise. Even though there is a lot of corporate money from big pharma and big health insurance lobbies lined up against even a public option, my guess, if we sweep in 2020 like I think we will, is that ACA will be fixed, including a strong individual mandate, mandatory coverage for pre-existing conditions, and high-deductible policies eliminated, as well as states being forced to expand Medicaid. AND a public option.
In our current corrupt situation, where those we elect ignore our interests and bow craven before corporate pressure and money, that's the best we'll get, I fear.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MichMan
(11,910 posts)I think the striking members wont need to worry about health insurance coverage
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
fleabiscuit
(4,542 posts)Perhaps a plan of strategic strikes may have some legs.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NYMinute
(3,256 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
myohmy2
(3,162 posts)"...its the perfect case for doing away with the current system."
" Under Medicare-for-all, whether youre working, whether youre not working, whether you go from one job to another job, its right there with you, Sanders said at the event. "
https://berniesanders.com/issues/medicare-for-all/
...
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
PDittie
(8,322 posts)*subject to your employer's whims
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
NYMinute
(3,256 posts)Nice try though
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JudyM
(29,233 posts)Folks with medical issues in their families have no real choice if this is held over their heads.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
TexasTowelie
(112,118 posts)that the workers can go find other jobs if they aren't satisfied with their compensation.
It is a conceit for anyone (from the entry-level custodian to the highest-paid CEO) to believe that they are not expendable. While I hope that the workers and union can negotiate an agreement that meets most of their demands, there is always a risk that things may turn out unfavorably when workers decide to strike. The union and the union members should be realistic that GM no longer has an insurable interest in the workers since they went on strike. Therefore, there is no reason for GM to provide any type of benefits to the workers who are not contributing to the profitability of the company.
Do I like that is true--no. However, my pragmatic side sees the rationale behind the business decision.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JudyM
(29,233 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided