Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumHarris: "I am not a democratic socialist"
A sensible move IMO, given half the electorate dont have a clue what socialism means. Kamala then gives a rather bland statement of textbook liberalism.
California's Kamala Harris distances herself from Bernie Sanders: "I am not a democratic socialist"
Sen. Kamala Harris, D-Calif., on Monday distanced herself from democratic socialism when asked by a reporter if she would be able to compete in the Democratic Party's presidential primary in 2020 in states like New Hampshire, where progressives including Sens. Bernie Sanders of Vermont and Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts have maintained a following. ...
Well, the people of New Hampshire will tell me what's required to compete in New Hampshire, but I will tell you I am not a democratic socialist," Harris told reporters during a campaign stop. Sanders' label has been embraced by some high-profile Democrats, including Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, D-N.Y.
"I believe that what voters do want is they want to know that whoever is going to lead understands that in America today not everyone has an equal opportunity and access to a path to success," Harris told reporters. "And that that has been building up over decades, and we've got to correct course."
"When we have an America where almost half of American families cannot afford a $400 emergency, we know that we've got to do some course correction," she added. "When we have an America where 99 percent of the counties in the United States of America if you're a minimum wage worker working full time you can't afford market rate for a one bedroom apartment, we need to course correct."
https://www.salon.com/2019/02/19/kamala-harris-distances-herself-from-bernie-sanders-i-am-not-a-democratic-socialist/
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
empedocles
(15,751 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
crazytown
(7,277 posts)But IMO, inequality of wealth, opportunity and influence are best takeled at the top as well as the bottom. I think this is the difference between progressives and liberals. Breaking up the banks in 2009 into savings and investment institutions, would have been a textbook progressive remedy.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
empedocles
(15,751 posts)LBJ got the incredibly important Medicare, Medicaid, civil right, panolopy of great things done! No President before or after LBJ could get done what LBJ achieved. At the time, LBJ was aggressively, 'righteously', dogmatically attacked by various Dem factions, which hurt LBJ's effort, mobilizing rw resistance.
A continuuing problem to the present day. Speaker Pelosi has been hit with somewhat similiar hurts, with no Senate or WH to go to.
Dems need a broad appeal to win commanding power to actually accomplish doable things, getting beyond righteous, vote costing proclamations, etc.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
crazytown
(7,277 posts)At this stage she is laying the foundations of her campaign - the LIFT taxation act for example.
LBJ - the guy was an asshole who got things done. I dont think anyone else could have pushed the Voting Rights legislation through. Yes it provoked a fierce backlash, and changed the Democratic Party forever, but without Vietnam LBJ would have won a second term in 1968.
1968 - what a disaster that year was.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
empedocles
(15,751 posts)get rid of trump, and try to get good, [though not sufficient for all Dems], reforms going. These foundation efforts aimed at Dem primary voters, are away from, and alienating to broader publics - to 'conservative' advantage now and in the future.
This kind of thing 'happened' in 2016, December 2016, continue now, and will continue, - weakening Dem unity and effectieness.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ProudMNDemocrat
(16,783 posts)If a candidate says.......
"I am for paid Public Education from Pre-K through Public College or University"
"I am for Universal Health Care or Medicare for All"
"I am for a higher Marginal Tax rate for the Millionaire /Billionaire class"
"I am for a $15 Minimum Wage"
"I am for expanding g Social Security and Medicare"
"I am for Green jobs and Energy"
You may be a Democratic Socialist. They must say what they are for, rather than what they are against and be specific. Because what I just listed is where I stand and my vote will go to the candidate who reflects my values.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
crazytown
(7,277 posts)In both cases they displace capitalist institutions - private health insurance and private superannuation.
The others - market regulation, taxes, subsidies and incentives are social democracy - liberal/progressive policy. To the extent public education does not displace private education, it is not speaking socialist.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
brooklynite
(94,502 posts)What's a social comunitariean? Doesn't matter; I made the term up myself. If self-described "Democratic Socialists" can redefine words, so can I.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
still_one
(92,136 posts)Hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia so it definitely would not suit me
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Docreed2003
(16,858 posts)She is clearly defining who she is and what she stands for, rather than allowing others to define who she is as a candidate.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
mia
(8,360 posts)Neither am I. We non-Democratic Socialists need to stick together.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
crazytown
(7,277 posts)Thats the European term for progressive parties who would seek to regulate/direct the market and use the tax system to provide a fair go for all. Socialism is literally the nationalisation of private business.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
honest.abe
(8,677 posts)It seems to be a more correct term for what they are. I guess they just dont like that "Democrat" label. Like its a disease or something.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
crazytown
(7,277 posts)crushed by greedy capitalist roaders rather than by any fault of their own.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
CrossingTheRubicon
(731 posts)I understand the difference between the ideology of "Social Democrats" and "Democratic Socialists" and I assume Bernie Sanders does as well.
When he tells me he's a Democratic Socialist, I believe him. That ideology matches his record. I don't believe he is a Social Democrat, or he'd say so.
I give the man the respect of taking him at his word.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
honest.abe
(8,677 posts)Here is what he has said:
http://time.com/4121126/bernie-sanders-democratic-socialism/
That doesn't sound like the textbook definition of Democratic Socialism.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
brush
(53,764 posts)Bernie and AOC have maybe overlooked that the term socialism is still a pejorative to many in this country who don't know the difference between socialism, fascism, nazism (national socialism in Hitlers 3rd Reich) and communism, a form of socialism.
IMO it's a miscalculation to label yourself with a term that represents a negative to many who you want to vote for you.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
brush
(53,764 posts)Democrats like FDR and LBJ have gotten the most important pieces of social legislation passed into law in the since Lincoln.
That's why I'm a Democrat. Social legislation can be done within the frame work of Congress if we are smart enough and stay together.
Avoiding defining oneself with little understood terms by voters like democratic socialist, especially in this country where socialism is a pejorative to many, unlike in Europe where Social Democrats are common.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
honest.abe
(8,677 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DBoon
(22,356 posts)Norman Thomas, when asked if FDR was carrying out the Socialist Party's agenda, said "Yes, in a coffin"
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
shanny
(6,709 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
honest.abe
(8,677 posts)I believe that is what a true socialist would advocate for.
a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
crazytown
(7,277 posts)or nationalization (socialist)
as I said, most of the electorate hasnt got a clue what socialism means.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
honest.abe
(8,677 posts)Good way to explain it.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
shanny
(6,709 posts)but thanks for playing
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
honest.abe
(8,677 posts)aside from the fact it wont work to solve our problems.
Im done playing.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
shanny
(6,709 posts)tilting at straw windmills looks pretty silly too
thanks for playing
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
honest.abe
(8,677 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
crazytown
(7,277 posts)What sectors of the economy should be socialised? For example, would you prefer to restore Glass/Stegal and break up the banks so none are too big to fail (a progressive remedy) or nationalise them (socialism)?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
shanny
(6,709 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
crazytown
(7,277 posts)for a cause they dont espouse? Sorry, but most people I know confuse progressive policy - putatively high taxation to break the influence of the wealthy, with socialism. They are different animals. Progressives who paint themselves as socialists would seem to get a lot of pain for little gain
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
CrossingTheRubicon
(731 posts)Democratic Socialism should not be confused with Social Democracy.
From Wikipedia:
Democratic Socialists are committed to systemic transformation of the economy from capitalism to socialism, whereas social democracy is supportive of reforms to capitalism.
In contrast to Social Democrats, Democratic Socialists believe that reforms aimed at addressing social inequalities and state interventions aimed at suppressing the economic contradictions of capitalism will only see them emerge elsewhere in a different guise.
As Socialists, Democratic Socialists believe that the systemic issues of capitalism can only be solved by replacing the capitalist system with a socialist systemi.e. by replacing private ownership with social ownership of the means of production
The liberal democracies that some Democratic Socialists attempt to point to as success stories all have advanced capitalist economies. Not one has a socialist economy. Not one of these nations is an example of "Democratic Socialism."
Venezuela under Chavez/Maduro is an example of Democratic Socialism. Both leaders embrace(d) the Democratic Socialist ideology and the DSA backs the regime even as it plunges into chaos and tyranny.
Liberal Democrats are wise to emphatically reject very non-liberal and non-progressive ideologies.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
crazytown
(7,277 posts)Grilled Millionaires
For those who might sneer at FDRs professions of peace, in 1941 the Federal Government was still trying to negotiate with Japan while its Axis ally had overrun almost all of Europe.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
empedocles
(15,751 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
honest.abe
(8,677 posts)Probably needs to be thoroughly discussed during the debates.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
CrossingTheRubicon
(731 posts)Instead, Democratic Socialists point to liberal democracies with advanced capitalist economies "as if" they were
"Democratic Socialist" states when nothing could be further from the truth.
Democratic Socialism is not a liberal ideology.
Kudos to Kamala Harris for speaking plainly!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)Or they talk about anything that's publicly funded as being an example of socialism.
It's rather embarrassing.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
CrossingTheRubicon
(731 posts)or infrastructure investment "socialist?"
It is embarrassing that Democratic Socialists have picked up the same meme as the far-right.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TCJ70
(4,387 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
crazytown
(7,277 posts)Doing so without a reason is crazy.
Trump called Sanders The Communist
I never thought wed see the day in this country when a Communist ... is the leading Democrat
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
TCJ70
(4,387 posts)...the Republicans are going to label all our candidates "Open Borders Socialists [Insert whatever other stupid name here]" this time around and it just doesn't matter. Look past labels to stances. Call yourself whatever you want.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
crazytown
(7,277 posts)Youre welcome to it.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
rusty fender
(3,428 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Awsi Dooger
(14,565 posts)Correct. It is the reason Trump understands how to use short blunt sound bites. Socialist is a perfect fear word, with many convenient offshoots like communist. Voters don't have to know what the terms mean. They associate them with scary and foreign and bad.
Kamala Harris understands the need to counter the socialism tag at this early stage. That is impressive but the long explanation will wander around and be ignored just like Al Gore and the Dingell-Norwood bill.
All of our candidates need to understand that. Short and succinct wins.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to crazytown (Original post)
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crazytown
(7,277 posts)- the Social Democratic Party of Germany isnt there? What sort of socialism do you want to talk about? The KdF?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Response to crazytown (Reply #44)
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crazytown
(7,277 posts)After WWII Britain nationalised Steel, Coal, Electricity, Rail, Gas, Busses, the Health System and the Bank of England. From memeory, nothing extra was nationalized in the Bundesrepublik, hence my comment about the SPD.
Of course everything was nationalized in the DDR but I think that given a choice at the time you would have preferred to live in the West?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
peggysue2
(10,828 posts)Harris is defining herself in the same way Liz Warren has stated she's a capitalist with an economic reform agenda. Both women are progressive but not democratic socialists.
It's information voters need, particularly those uncomfortable with the democratic socialist label.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
CentralMass
(15,265 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
BannonsLiver
(16,369 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)then they shouldn't let others box them in
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
crazytown
(7,277 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided