'He is not going to be the nominee': Dems slam Sanders over Maduro stance

[still_one]

"Florida Democrats are denouncing Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders for refusing to call Venezuelan strongman Nicolas Maduro a dictator — a politically explosive issue in the nation’s biggest swing state.
Sanders also would not say whether he considered Venezuela’s assembly leader, Juan Guaidó, as the nation’s interim president, which is the position of the United States and a majority of Latin American countries European countries.

Both of Sanders’ positions play into the hands of President Trump and the GOP, say Democrats. The president just held a rally in Miami on Monday to denounce Maduro and socialism, an appeal to the state’s growing block of Venezuelan-American voters. Many Venezuelans have flocked to the state as the country’s economy crashed and repression increased.
Democrats, already alarmed that Trump’s inroads with Venezuelans could help him peel off an otherwise-reliable Democratic voting bloc in a toss-up state, were quick to denounce Sanders’ comments."

“He is not going to be the nominee of the Democratic Party. He has demonstrated again that he does not understand this situation,” Rep. Donna Shalala, a Miami Democrat who represents Venezuelan exiles and, told POLITICO. “I absolutely disagree with his imprecision in not saying Maduro must go.” Shalala has filed legislation aimed at helping Venezuelan immigrants.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/21/bernie-sanders-venezuela-maduro-1179636

[Tumbulu]

1. How can he even run in the Democratic Primariy anyway?

Why was this ever allowed and why will it be allowed?

[still_one]

2. I believe he met the criteria poised by the DNC, at least in regard to identiying as a Democrat

and from what I understand he says he is running as a Democrat

[shanny]

3. Annnnnnd some (one?) random Florida Ds get to decide that, do they?

Also too: "Politico" puhleeeese. Those guys live for Ds in disarray, Ds divided, etc posts. Why do we play their game?

[disillusioned73]

4. A state that goes RED regulary..

Why don't ppl listen to the UN or actual humanitarian organizations instead of our continued fail foreign policies??.. Why are Dems lining up to support Trump on this issue?? I thought he was a dangerous menace, a trator that needed ousted?? - what gives??..

&feature=push-u-sub&attr_tag=JY5xgCebhTtHLGhO%3A6

[shanny]

5. Amen.

[Jose Garcia]

6. Obama won the state twice

[disillusioned73]

8. So..

it went Republican 11 out of 14 elections previous to that.. that's almost 80% RED

The real issue at hand - Why are Dems supporting a right wing take over a sovereign nation led by Trump and this corrupt administration??? That is the answer I want to hear and no one seems to want to offer it up.. other than the same BS we were given before illegally invading Iraq..

[Hassin Bin Sober]

7. This lays it it out pretty clearly:

Bolton saying it would be good for Americans to get American companies in Venezuela pumping their oil tells me everything I need to know.

[disillusioned73]

9. Let's try & get one of these..

pro-interventionalists to answer why this is a good idea.. I have yet to hear one..

[Adrahil]

10. So is your position is that Maduro is a good guy?

Is he a champion of the people?

I mean, it's possible for both Bolton AND Maduro to bad guys, isn't it?

I absolutely do not understand why so much of the American left embraces that tin pot dictator.

[ehrnst]

12. +1000. (nt)

[still_one]

15. Rep. Donna Shalala is NOT a "random" Democrat, and while I am not a fan of Politico, this is an

issue in Florida.

No doubt the headline is typical Politico hyperbole, but if some would like to pretend this is not an issue in Florida, and would rather not accept that at the very least this will be used by our opponents, I think that is quite naïve.


If nothing else the Swift Boating of John Kerry should have taught us something.


This is an issue in Florida, and from about Feb. 8, 2019 the Orlando Sentenial presented the following:

"The chaos in Venezuela is a major concern for tens of thousands of that country’s natives who live in Central Florida, as members of Congress from both parties push to provide protection to those fleeing the embattled nation.
William Diaz, a journalist and founder of Casa de Venezuela in Orlando, said Central Florida now has 140,000 Venezuelan residents, about 38,000 of which are U.S. citizens, a number that has only grown over the last year as the nation has spiraled into political and economic upheaval.

…….

As Florida governor, Republican U.S. Sen. Rick Scott was an early critic of Maduro, prohibiting state agencies from doing business with companies backed by the Maduro regime.
Scott has also been clear, spokeswoman Sarah Schwirian said, that he favors “a permanent solution to TPS as part of a larger border security deal.”
U.S. Sen. Marco Rubio also joined with U.S. Sen. Bob Menendez, D-New Jersey, to introduce a bill to extend Temporary Protected Status, or TPS, to Venezuelan refugees.

…………..

Florida’s Venezuelan population is beginning to notice, said Samuel Vilchez Santiago, a Princeton student and Venezuelan activist from Orlando.
“As a lifelong Democrat, one of my fears is that the next generation of Venezuelan immigrants, the Venezuelans coming here, will somehow be part of the Republican base,” Santiago said.

Diaz said he was a strong supporter of President Obama and would never vote for Trump because of his anti-immigration policies. But, he added, while he originally distrusted Scott because of his support of Arizona’s law allowing law enforcement to ask for immigration papers, he came to support Scott because of his early support of sanctions against Maduro.
While he has talked repeatedly with Scott, Diaz said he waited months for Scott’s opponent, then-U.S. Sen. Bill Nelson, to have a meeting with the Venezuelan community.
“When you go to the political angle, you see there are Republicans behind the Venezuelan community,” he said. “Democrats are, too, but not as strongly as Republicans. … I hate to tell you, but I’m a registered Democrat and an active Democrat, but before that, I’m a Venezuelan.”

“Both Democrats and Republicans support the recognition of Guaido,” Santiago said. “The problem is, Democratic leadership seems to be somehow mixed in their responses. People from the left, progressive side – Bernie Sanders, [U.S. Rep. Ilhan] Omar [D-Minnesota] – they’re out speaking against recognition and talking about a ‘U.S.-led coup.’ The Republican side has a more united front in recognizing the new Venezuelan government.”
“It’s that division within the Democratic Party that’s used to create a narrative that Republicans help more,” Santiago said."

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/politics/political-pulse/os-ne-central-florida-venezuela-20190208-story.html

[ehrnst]

11. I am wondering about the silence on Maduro.

Especially in light of the GOP loudly and falsely equating Democratic Socialism with Socialism in Venezuela, it would be helpful to make the distinction VERY clear.

[CrossingTheRubicon]

14. Chavez and Maduro came to power by the ballot.

Last edited Fri Feb 22, 2019, 01:34 PM - Edit history (1)

Both Chavez and Maduro explicitly embrace(d) Democratic Socialism as their ideology.

Their economy is socialist, as is the goal of Democratic Socialism.

The problem of "false equations" is conflating Social Democracy with Democratic Socialism.

The distinction between Social Democracy and Democratic Socialism should be made VERY CLEAR.

There is confusion here.

[Adrahil]

16. But Maduro HOLDS his power through authoritarian power grabs. NT

[CrossingTheRubicon]

19. True enough.

Their form of "democracy" is:

One Man. One Vote. One Time.

No civilization has figured out how to extinguish private property without adopting tyrannical means.

It is a circle I don't think can be squared.

That's why I'm a liberal Democrat and not a Democratic Socialist.

[ehrnst]

17. Yes, if self-identified Democratic Socialist candidates would make those differences clear

that would help immensely. This is why I'm wondering about the silence.

[CrossingTheRubicon]

20. I believe those who tell us they are Democratic Socialists.

I assume they are adults who understand the premises of the ideology they claim.

I do understand the reasons to obfuscate on some points.

I understand why free college or free healthcare are treated as if these policies define "socialism."

Or why police, fire, schools, the VA, and Social Security are called "socialist" when they are not.

And why the Social Democracies are falsely equated with Democratic Socialism.

Replacing private property with "social ownership" of the means of production ain't gonna make it with anyone, anyhow.

[CrossingTheRubicon]

13. Venezuela is a Democratic Socialist kleptocracy...

People are staying alive by eating rats.

We should be part of a humanitarian solution that sees the tyrants exit.

Isolationism in the face of human misery is not a liberal response.

[NurseJackie]

18. "In the end...

The words of these two great Americans seem appropriate. All I'm trying to say is that it's worth thinking about.