Discussion on Morning Joe: Dems lost over 1,000 offices over Obamacare...

[wyldwolf]

... the bill barely limped over the finish line and even then it wasn't fully implemented in all states. And now progressives have essentially joined into the Republican "repeal and replace" chorus.

After all the polling data shown last night from Steve Kornacki on MFA, especially MFA at the expense of private insurance, certainly builds a compelling case that Warren's and Sanders' "damn bill," as written, will never pass Congress even with strong Dem majorities.

One of the moderates (forget which) said this plan would be the equivalent of asking people to give up their pensions when social security was passed. It's a valid comparison.

Also, from one of the moderates (again, they all run together), "Democrats flipped 40 republican house seats in 2018. None of them ran on or agree with Sanders' MFA plan."

[Cha]

1. That's right the Moderates who Flipped

around 40 Red seats to Blue in the Blue Wave Midterms ran on ACA.. Nancy Pelosi gave advice to run on Health Care.. and they did and WON/

Link to tweet

These leaders are with Biden fighting to keep ACA..

Biden proposes massive new Obamacare subsidies, public option in health care plan

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287201979

Biden is in Good Company!

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Progressives Support Shoring Up ACA Before Tackling Medicare For All

Despite a large division in the Democratic party over the best health care solution ― single-payer or a continuation and possible expansion of something like Obamacare ― progressives in Congress appear to be in lockstep with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s priority of shoring up the ACA before tackling anything like Medicare for All.

“I’m happy to support any provision that strengthens the ACA and plug some of the gaps that we’re seeing, particularly as it’s under assault by the president,” Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.) told HuffPost on Wednesday. “I think it’s part of a longer-term vision, at least for me, towards guaranteeing ― truly guaranteeing ― health care for all Americans.”

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10142293852#top

Looks like the House Progressives are with former VP Joe Biden

Here's Beto..

Link to tweet

Then there's BS's opposition..

Bernie Sanders opposes House bill to strengthen the Affordable Care Act.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/128739743#top

Link to tweet

Thanks, wyldwolf

[oldsoftie]

2. Stop that! You make too much sense.

[Cha]

3. Please read the 1st post to

back up that sense.

oldsoftie

[oldsoftie]

4. Just saw that. And totally correct. Seems too many want to just take their ball & go home.

If they dont get EVERYTHING THEY WANT.

[Cha]

5. Same ol same ol.. and gets us

nowhere.

[redstatebluegirl]

29. Same stuff we went through in 2016.

Give me everything I want or I'm not voting. This is going to cost us AGAIN!!!!

[JI7]

6. another thing is opposition to ACA was mostly based on BS and Obama being black , similar to when

Clintons tried to get health care passed.

but over time people saw most of the attacks were lies such as death panels and they saw the benefits of ACA which is why democrats ran on it in 2018 and won .

but there are serious questions about MFA and Sanders himself doesn't seem to understand it. that's why his response it usually to attack others for not being good enough instead of discussing the actual issue and how he would make it work.

[bucolic_frolic]

7. Those are valid observations

I do know working people who complained about the cost of Obamacare. Premiums rose a couple thou, they said.

I doubt the trans bathroom issue was very popular in less tolerant areas, to say the least.

The best way to reduce health care costs might be in peoples' diets. Sugar is doing more harm than fat and salt, but we know all three are best in small amounts.

[Freddie]

8. Private plans premium increases

Were because of the essential coverage requirements. Previously you could buy any crap plan that covered next to nothing and call it “health insurance.” That’s one of the things Repugs want to bring back.
A friend (self employed) complains about having to cover things like maternity care “that doesn’t affect me!” Meantime his insurance covered his cardiac bypass surgery! He’s too thick to realize that a bad heart would surely be a pre-existing condition and would make him uninsurable in the future, back in the “good old days”.

[samnsara]

9. i would be happy with medicare at 60

..then hubby can retire!

[MontanaFarmer]

10. Ultimately, there is/ would be less daylight between

bidens plan (which I like) and Harris' plan (which I like a little better). Kamala's, if passed at all, would likely be negotiated down to something like ACA+ with a public option. I think this ideological divide is interesting and needs to be settled, but candidates also need to make sure to talk about what trump/GOP has tried to do. We won the house in 2018, as mentioned above, defending the ACA. I think the plan on the party platform in '20 ends up somewhere in the Biden/ Harris/ Klobuchar/buttigieg area more than the Warren/ Sanders area, and that's ok. Light years better than what trump can talk about.

[delisen]

11. Problem with claiming 1000 seats lost due to Obamacare

Yes 1000 seats (legislators and other offices) were lost roughly from 2010 to 2016 and some seats in Congress were lost especially in 2010 due to the passage of there Affordable Care act in 2009, I don't see evidence that all those lost seats were linked to dissatisfaction with the ACA.

[wyldwolf]

12. other than every winning Republican ran on repealing Obamacare in that time period...

... you're right. No *hard* evidence...

[delisen]

14. 910 seats lost by Democrats were in state legislatures

not the US Congress which voted on the Affordable Care Act.

Other seats lost were secretaries of state, attorneys general, and governorships -not just the US Congress which voted on the Affordable Care Act.

One reason for the massive losses may be that Democrats are less likely than Republicans to focus on non-presidential elections-which some commentators have pointed out, including Mara Liasson of NPR have pointed out:

There is Presidential Election America, where turnout is diverse. The electorate is younger, browner, more single, more secular — more Democratic. Then there's Midterm Election America, where the electorate is older, whiter, more rural, more church-going — in other words, more Republican. What's great for Republicans and bad for Democrats is that the vast majority of the governorships and state legislative seats are elected in the midterms.

https://www.npr.org/2016/03/04/469052020/the-democratic-party-got-crushed-during-the-obama-presidency-heres-why

We ran the numbers, and Roberts’ claim checks out. Using data from the National Conference of State Legislatures, Democrats have lost 910 seats in statehouses across the country since 2009.

https://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/jan/25/cokie-roberts/have-democrats-lost-900-seats-state-legislatures-o/

The above reference to Roberts is Cokie Roberts of NPR

The facts may be inconvenient but the false narratives are much worse in their effect upon my life and that of others-we end up addressing false issues and not fixing real problems while our personal situations and that of the county, and the world worsen.

If you have evidence that the passage of the Affordable Care Act was the reason the massive loss of non-Congressional seats I am certainly interested.

I believe facing facts to be essential to survival of human rights and democracy.

[wyldwolf]

16. which is beside the point. Even local council candidates ran on the ACA

[delisen]

18. If you have evidence I am interested

I have been unable to verify that all these 900 + seats were lost in non-Congressional races due to the passage of the ACA in Congress in 2009.

[Demsrule86]

19. Everybody pays from the Feds to the states...when legislation is forced through and is unpopular.

It is now popular...and it makes no sense to throw it out and start anew...dumb and more dumb.

[delisen]

40. I am in favor of ACA continuing and improving

[Demsrule86]

43. I am too...and no one ever talks about the jobs lost under MFA.

[themaguffin]

13. Yep. I think something significant but digestable would be something like Medicare at

55 and also all children up to 18 covered.

"Easy" wins, and gets the ball moving.

[Demsrule86]

24. I don't want Medicare at 55, it would cost me more, I prefer my employee plan.

Medicare is not that great...my sis in law is on it and I help her...it is expensive and has deductibles and copays. You need a wrap as well...which is not cheap for decent coverage.

[Demsrule86]

25. I have four kids and have no desire to buy four plans...it would break me financially.

[themaguffin]

41. Huh? Four plans?

[Demsrule86]

42. There are no family plans in Medicare and since my employer insurance is subsidized and I get

$1500.00 each year in addition in a HSA...MFA will cost me quite a bit of money...there are others like me and trying to destroy employer based insurance will get us tossed out of office in a New York second.

[themaguffin]

48. That's my point

[crazytown]

15. 'Dems lost over 1,000 offices': The buck stops with the political leadership

as Obama accepted after the midterm disaster. A leadership that included VP Biden.

[wyldwolf]

17. ... for passing a bill to give affordable health care...

"Progressives:" PASS HEALTH CARE
Obama/Biden: OK...
"Progressives:" It's YOUR fault we lost seats.

btw, FDR lost tons of seats during the New Deal passage.

[crazytown]

20. It is the responsibility of the political leadership

to sell policy. To sell legislation. Tautology. At least they got something through, unlike 1994.

[wyldwolf]

23. "unlike 1994"

Major liberal legislation was passed in the early 90s and Dems suffered blowback in '94.

[crazytown]

22. Health Care was as much a New Democratic priority

as it was for the progressive/left. All the Party have to take their share of responsibility, starting with the top.

[wyldwolf]

26. Only "progressives" blame Democrats for voter backlash against liberal legislation

[crazytown]

31. I contest the description 'liberal legislation'

The ACA, in its legislated form, was no more liberal than the proposal HRC took to the Primaries, and arguably less liberal than the 1994 proposal. Of course "progressives" blame anyone but themselves, always have, that's a given. I would not put the whole blame of the 2010 disaster on the ACA either. That defeat shares elements of 1994 - blaming Democrats for the economy for example -And I would add, a failure to hold the principals of Lehmann and the other miscreants resonsible for hawking their CDS/CDOs. Even W jailed executives from Enron / Worldcom, despite their long record of support. It killed Kenny Boy, but I'm not crying.

[wyldwolf]

32. Contest all you want

On any other day, in any other discussion, you'd be falling all over yourself in claiming the new deal, the assault weapons ban, and the ACA were liberal legislative accomplishments.

[crazytown]

33. Well then, health care reform was a New Democrat priorty,

they shaped it, they bear the responsibility, or maybe the entire leadership of the DLC didn't understand the third way. I'll take their word for it rather than an anonymous poster on a BBS.

[wyldwolf]

34. "DLC" LOL!

Healthcare reform = ACA. Are you seriously trying to draw a distinction? And do you really believe voters chose the GOP in dramatically large numbers after it was passed because it wasn't liberal enough?

[crazytown]

35. The DLC supported and embraced the Clinton Health Care initiative.

Maybe we are at odds on terminology here. I characterize , liberals by their leaders - McGovern, Ted Kennedy for example, and the 'sensible center' by theirs. If the WJC Administration was not third way / DLC, I don't know what was .

EDIT: I don't remember the 2007 wyldworlf shading the DLC or Clinton Administration in order to win an argument. I didn't then, and I don't now. Warren is my #1 because I believe she has the skills and on the ground organization to win - and winning is what I am about. Let's leave it at that.

[wyldwolf]

36. it's like 2004 again. Retro-DU. Blame the DLC Boogeyman...

The DLC supported and embraced the Clinton Health Care initiative.

1. The Clinton Health Care initiative has not even come up in our conversation. I've referenced:

a. The New Deal
b. The '94 assault weapons ban
c. The ACA

2. "Progressives" roundly supported the Clinton health care bill, anyway.

I don't remember the 2007 wyldworlf shading the DLC or Clinton Administration in order to win an argument.

Not only am I not doing that, I haven't even discussed the Clinton health care bill OR the DLC.

[crazytown]

37. WTF

I supported the DLC on formation and onwards. If you think I'm loony left, you have the wrong guy. If you think the ACA was liberal- then the 1994 legislation was liberal too, as was the DLC's proposal. Obama was no 'liberal' and neither was the ACA. I've said enough.

[wyldwolf]

38. WTF?

If you think the ACA was liberal- then the 1994 legislation was liberal too, as was the DLC's proposal.

I do, and it was.

Obama was no 'liberal' and neither was the ACA. I've said enough.

He was, it was, and you have.

[Demsrule86]

21. Nancy Pelosi gave up her majority to get health care for millions of Americans...

She put the nation ahead of poltics and saved lives...it makes no sense to try to force MFA down People's throats now...build on the ACA...and just consider that in the UK...conservatives are chipping away at single payer healthcare. It is not a 21st century plan, we can do better. We can build on the ACA and get something like Germany, Switzerland or France has. There is insufficient support for the MFA...time to let it go.

[wyldwolf]

27. yet someone is on this thread making a really outlandish claim...

... that Dem leadership should somehow stop voter backlash when then-unpopular legislation is passed.

1930s-40s, Dems lost tons of seats when portions of the New Deal was passed.
'94 - Dems lost tons of seats when the Assault Weapons ban was in place.
2012-2016 - Dems lost seats when the ACA was passed.

"Progressive" can't have it both ways.

[Demsrule86]

44. That is the problem...the left refuses to face reality.

[TheRealNorth]

30. I think MFA has to be sold better before we legislate for it

I think there are more pressing issues then MFA (like Citizens United, securing our elections, etc).

I would rather not sacrifice all of those issues to expend political capital for MFA at this time, especially when we have ACA already in place, and could probably be tweaked to deal with most of the current problems.

Going to MFA is just going to create a lot of uncertainty for people who receive their insurance through private employers, which will in turn make them susceptible to Republican fearmongering.

[Go Vols]

39. Barack Obama Endorses "Medicare for All"

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211110216

[Trenzalore]

45. We lost the propaganda war in 2010 not the policy war

Now that it is in place the republicans lost almost an equal number of offices trying to repeal it.

[wyldwolf]

47. you think Republicans have lost almost 1,000 offices trying to repeal it?

Not in any reality.

[Tarheel_Dem]

46. K&R

[NurseJackie]

49. Kick for more exposure.