Biden worried in 1977 that de-segregation would cause his children to grow up 'in a racial jungle'

[Hassin Bin Sober]

https://news.yahoo.com/joe-biden-worried-1977-certain-182631643.html


Note:bolded portions removed from post header due to space issues

Joe Biden worried in 1977 that certain de-segregation policies would cause his children to grow up 'in a racial jungle'

Former Vice President Joe Biden is facing increased scrutiny over his record on busing and racial issues, and this week old comments resurfaced in which he said, in 1977, that non-"orderly" racial integration policies would cause his children to "grow up in a racial jungle."

The quote was originally discovered by University of Southern California Law School professor and scholar Daria Roithmayr and first reported by The New York Times, which published a lengthy story on Biden's record on busing and school de-segregation on Monday morning.

In the quote, which appears to come from a congressional hearing related to anti-busing legislation, Biden emphasized wanting to "insure we do have orderly integration of society," adding he was "not just talking about education but all of society."

He then said: "Unless we do something about this, my children are going to grow up in a jungle, the jungle being a racial jungle with tensions having built so high that it is going to explode at some point. We have got to make some move on this."

[qazplm135]

1. oof

that's...ummm...not great.

[paulkienitz]

2. probably just an unfortunate choice of metaphor, but ...ouch

It sounds like he was referring to levels of tension and hostility, but it could easily be taken another way.

[wyldwolf]

4. it will be spun the other way

Kinda like when Biden said Obama was 'clean,' people pretended he was insinuating other black people were dirty, as opposed to Obama being without scandal or wrongdoing.

[mobeau69]

31. I agree, just another in a long list of gaffes.

Very unfortunate choice of words though.

[wyldwolf]

32. it wasn't a gaffe

You have subset of highly sensitive "progressives" who latch onto anything. The average voter knows that calling someone "clean" isn't about hygiene.

[mobeau69]

34. Sorry, I was referring to the subject, jungle gaffe. We're talking about two different gaffes! LOL.

[SouthernProgressive]

11. Not sure what this exchange looked like before.

It's absolutely hilarious now.

[Demsrule86]

10. Won't do them any good...77? Give me a break. Biden is a good guy and has worked for racial justice

his entire life...have to go back to 77... he must be really good.

[left-of-center2012]

5. O M G !

Going back 42 years to find a reason to attack Biden?

[Autumn]

36. Like some people do with Bernie.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

40. Yeah, every time I hear that I just about fall over laughing.

[Autumn]

41. Like OMG ! Going back 47 years to find a reason to attack Bernie?

Happens all the time!

[SouthernProgressive]

7. I hope people read this.

It shows the thoughtfulness of Biden and how he doesn't just want to do something to do it. On a major issue he wanted to do it right. Biden wasn't just looking to desegregate one area of society, but all areas. He understood the enormity of the task ahead of them.

Some will attempt to paint this as a negative on Biden. I know those people for who they are.

These stories are a statement about those who are spreading them. Biden supporters aren't stupid enough to buy the bullshit.

[Skya Rhen]

23. +1,000,000

[emmaverybo]

24. Wise response. Thank you. NT

[WhiskeyGrinder]

8. Oof.

[hlthe2b]

9. He certainly hasn't believed that for decades and despite all those too young to remember or

located in the confines of the US where this was not a heated constant debate, my sister and I lived it-- in four communities within three states of the Deep South, from early elementary to high school. That sentiment-- with the fear of violence that inspired it-- was not isolated--nor was it confined among only bigotted white parents nor absent of concern among black families. Had my otherwise "small-town-reared" parents not begun the pattern of moving with their jobs every few years, that included very multi-cultural stints overseas, I don't know that they might not have reacted less positively than they did--which certainly transferred to their children and reassured many other parents.

It was a difficult chapter that hoped to bring positive change. In some areas, it did (including most locales where I attended school). It was NOT, despite all the current attempts to revise that historical period, a time where the answers were absolutely clear nor people's attitudes always so predictable. Even among otherwise (in today's vernacular) "progressive" people, there was resistance.

Continuing to beat this divisive drum after weeks of turmoil leaves me wondering, WHY?

Never mind. I KNOW.

[Bettie]

12. Biden isn't my first choice, get that out of the way first off

Second, I thought his answer to Harris in the debate was not well thought out.

However, what he believed in 1977 is arguably VERY DIFFERENT from what he believes or what he would do today.

I'd hazard a guess that nearly everyone (candidates, congresspersons, and even those of us who are of no particular importance) has held beliefs that did not hold up to the test of time. We all grow and change and Biden has done so.

If you believe Joe Biden is a racist RIGHT NOW, then say so and give your reasons for believing it.

[wyldwolf]

13. so what's the issue?

Does anyone really believe well-meaning, quickly enacted, yet poorly-planned and likely very unpopular legislation would bring peace and tranquility to the land?

Or are you taking exception with the word "jungle."

[highplainsdem]

14. That term has been used by blacks as well, including African-American historian John Hope

Last edited Tue Jul 16, 2019, 02:27 PM - Edit history (1)

Franklin, commenting on one of the books on African-American history he recommended in his "Grownup School List" -- check the quote from either of these two sources:


https://blogs.library.duke.edu/rubenstein/2013/02/15/john-hope-franklins-grownup-school-list/


https://www.amazonbookreview.com/post/1d82fd17-5a83-4084-b25f-a902103c9afb/the-old-man-is-dead-john-hope-franklin-1915-2009

W.E.B. DuBois, Souls of Black Folk (1903). “This classic clearly delineates the utter frustration of African Americans who attempt to adjust to the American racial jungle.”

Now, as for why Biden might have used those words in respect to busing -- if you do some googling, you'll see that the mid-70s was apparently a particularly violent period.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_desegregation_busing_crisis

The desegregation of Boston public schools (1974–1988) was a period in which the Boston Public Schools were under court control to desegregate through a system of busing students. The call for desegregation and the first years of its implementation led to a series of racial protests and riots that brought national attention, particularly from 1974 to 1976. In response to the Massachusetts legislature's enactment of the 1965 Racial Imbalance Act, which ordered the state's public schools to desegregate, W. Arthur Garrity Jr. of the United States District Court for the District of Massachusetts laid out a plan for compulsory busing of students between predominantly white and black areas of the city. The hard control of the desegregation plan lasted for over a decade. It influenced Boston politics and contributed to demographic shifts of Boston's school-age population, leading to a decline of public-school enrollment and white flight to the suburbs. Full control of the desegregation plan was transferred to the Boston School Committee in 1988; in 2013 the busing system was replaced by one with dramatically reduced busing.[1]

-snip-

There were a number of protest incidents that turned severely violent, even resulting in deaths. In one case, attorney Theodore Landsmark was attacked and bloodied by a group of white teenagers as he exited Boston City Hall.[11] One of the youths, Joseph Rakes, attacked Landsmark with an American flag.[12] According to Landsmark, Rakes was swinging the flag and trying to hit him, not trying to spear him as it appears in the photo, and he narrowly missed.[13] A photograph of the attack on Landsmark, The Soiling of Old Glory taken by Stanley Forman for the Boston Herald American, won the Pulitzer Prize for Spot News Photography (now the Pulitzer Prize for Breaking News Photography) in 1977.[14][15] In a retaliatory incident about two weeks later, black teenagers in Roxbury threw rocks at auto mechanic Richard Poleet's car and caused him to crash. The youths dragged him out and crushed his skull with nearby paving stones. When police arrived, the man was surrounded by a crowd of 100 chanting "Let him die" while lying in a coma from which he never recovered.[7]

In another instance, a white teenager was stabbed nearly to death by a black teenager at South Boston High School. The community's white residents mobbed the school, trapping the black students inside.[16] There were dozens of other racial incidents at South Boston High that year, predominantly of racial taunting of the black students.[clarification needed] The school was forced to close for a month after the stabbing. When it opened again, it was one of the first high schools to install metal detectors; with 400 students attending, it was guarded by 500 police officers every day. In December 1975, Judge Garrity turned out the principal of South Boston High and took control himself.[7]

Judge Garrity increased the plan down to first grade for the following school year. In October 1975, 6,000 marched against the busing in South Boston.[7]

[wyldwolf]

16. but... but... but... BUSING!!

[BlueWI]

42. The term has been used by blacks?

Ok. I'm a "black" so should I be reassured by this statement?

And your previous examples are John Hope Franklin and W.E. DuBois in 1903?

Maybe we can at least aim for some people first language in 2019, talking about our hopes for a new, racially progressive administration? Or let me guess, since black people also use the term "blacks" it's invalid to question that coinage too?

Wow - the webs bring woven here just to shield Biden from his own statements are quite the thing on this forum lately.

[Doodley]

15. I believe he was saying to plan carefully or white racism could be a problem.

[wyldwolf]

17. of course he was and everyone knew it at the time it was said.

[Gustafo]

18. Both you and the article left "non-orderly" out of the headline

It's crucial.

[wyldwolf]

19. beat me to it. Other sources do include it

[highplainsdem]

20. MOST IMPORTANT QUOTE THERE: "Biden emphasized wanting to 'insure we do have orderly integration

of society,' adding he was 'not just talking about education but all of society.'"

Biden was pro-integration. Period.

[highplainsdem]

21. Because of the words you omitted from the headline, your subject line is intentionally false.

When you refer ONLY to "de-segregation" it suggests that BIden felt that way about de-segregation as a whole.

That wasn't true.

You knew it wasn't true when you edited the headline, because you realized you had to admit you'd left some words out.

Please FIX YOUR SUBJECT LINE.

There are people here who read only thread titles and assume they're accurate.

Yours definitely isn't.

[dsc]

22. I am sure you didn't pick those three words to make Biden look worse

no not at all.

[Cha]

25. Hey Hassin! FiX your HEADLINE! TY!

[democratisphere]

26. More of the SOS.

Jeebus H.

[iamateacher]

27. I went to a bused high school in the 70's...

In the south. There was real fear of violence. We had cops in the bathrooms, cancelled events, phoned in threats, etc. It all went well, but there was real fear.

[Hoyt]

35. Yeah, the white racists were afraid. Same crud nowadays.

[silentEcho]

28. I do not even know what this is all about, nor do I care. We are talking about a world that

progressed over that 4 decades. We must acknowledge what it was to live 4 decades ago, compared to today. If we do not at least give it a courtesy call, then any conversation is skewed. And not in an helpful manner, either. It creates a false path to move forward.

I am all for looking back at that time, for those of us that lived it and having a conversation. But, present has to at least be a tad honest and fair in that conversation.

If we want to discuss how we treated POC, and how we treated women and girls, and how we treated gays, and the beginning of true progress forward with actual rights; I am there. As women we are losing rights in 2019. Lets talk about when we started actually getting right, and where we sit today. So we will more clearly see what we need to do today.

We went from girls having to wear a dress, women not able to get a credit card in their name, an husband able to rape a wife to 2019. See the difference? If we are going to discuss what Biden thought way back then, we are going to talk about life way back then, not today.

Otherwise, this just becomes one of those petty attacks.

[AlexSFCA]

29. so what, 77? let's talk about what dem senators were saying about lgbt back then

it won’t be pretty. The world has changed. Trump is baiting dems to focus on race all the time because that’s how he wins.

[still_one]

30. There is a reason why many Sander's supporters from 2016 do not support him this time

One reason is that Sanders hired people to high positions in his campaign who not only voted for Jill Stein, but encouraged others to do likewise.

[silentEcho]

33. Sanders has told and shown us in all ways he is not a part of the Democratic Party.

That really is a fact that I think even Sanders will agree with. He has been doing it for five decades.

He is telling the Democratic base we need to vote for him.

Personally, that boggles my mind that he can have that expectation. After what he did in 2016 and hiring non HRC, Stein voting third party today, is such a high demand to be making. I do not see where he has earned this expectation.

[Politicub]

37. How you spun this story is a low blow

You could have posted the actual headline and continued it in the body of your post if it was too long.

But you chose not to do that. Hmmm.... I wonder why?

[Kahuna7]

38. There were race riots during that period. nt

[MustLoveBeagles]

39. Please correct the headline

[ucrdem]

43. Well, then we had the 80s, and then we had the 90s.

Things got pretty bad and pretty ugly. Remember Rodney King? And Reginald Denny? I just looked up the pictures. I can't post them. They're that horrible.