Which candidate(s) will take a run at Biden in the next debate, now that he's shown a vulnerability

[EffieBlack]

in not thinking fast enough on his feet.

And I wonder if the reaction will be as aggressive and angry as the response to his record being challenged in the last debate.

It will be interesting to see.

[highplainsdem]

1. LOL! Proceed, candidate...

[bluewater]

2. Warren should confront Biden on his economic record

He's very vulnerable there.

[customerserviceguy]

13. I fully expect that she will

And I expect him to be prepared for it this time around. This may well have been the first debate where Joe Biden has suffered a loss. Success is sometimes a lousy teacher.

[marylandblue]

21. He won't be able to prepare enough for Warren's attack.

She is one of the country's leading experts on banking. How much can he learn in a month?

[customerserviceguy]

26. I'm sure he has staff ready for this

they were just looking for an opportunity to say, "Joe, we've done some thinking about this, and here's what you can use in your next debate." That's what campaign staff does.

[marylandblue]

29. Of course he has staff, but when you are up on the debate stage, you are there by yourself, plus

he's got a difficult vulnerability on the bankruptcy issue much worse than the busing issue. She advocated against the bankruptcy predicting it would hurt average Americans and was a giveaway to banks including large banks based in his state. Her predictions were correct about a lot of it, and it arguably did even more damage to the economy than what she predicted.

https://www.wbur.org/news/2019/05/21/warren-biden-bankruptcy-bill-democrats

When a bankruptcy expert argues that your bankruptcy law (bipartisan by the way) is exactly what is wrong with America, you damn well better have a good answer. I just don't know if there is one.

[customerserviceguy]

34. It didn't seem to hurt him

over his eight years as VP. I would think that if Americans were as concerned about it as you and Sen. Warren are, we'd have seen his brand damaged already.

I had to file for bankruptcy back in 1996, and I don't fault him for it.

[marylandblue]

40. The Bankruptcy Law in question was passed in 2005,

and it made it harder for people to declare bankruptcy. Most people are not aware that Warren testified against the bill in front of Biden and he was a strong supporter of the law. They are also not aware that it may have worsened the 2008 financial crisis as it encouraged banks to make riskier loans that later went bad. Then the government bailed the banks out of course, but not the bankrupt borrowers.

It was also a defining moment for Warren, because passage of the law led her to conclude that money had hopelessly corrupted the political system.

Most people are not aware of all this, but she will tell them. I don't expect that she will call Biden out by name, but if she raises the issue, it will be recognized as an implied attack on Biden and everything he stands for.

[thesquanderer]

46. Biden knows a ton about banking, unfortunately he's been on the wrong side.

From his wikipedia entry (FWIW)...

Biden was a sponsor of bankruptcy legislation during the 2000s, which was sought by MBNA, one of Delaware's largest companies, and other credit card issuers.[17] ... the overall bill was vetoed by Bill Clinton in 2000 but then finally passed as the Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act in 2005, with Biden supporting it.

[Butterflylady]

61. I don't get this thing about the bankruptcy bill

I know 3 people who filed bankruptcies since 2013 and 2 of them were ordinary everyday people. They filed bankruptcies with no problems. They had credit card debt amonst other things. So what is the big deal since it's happening everyday.

[thesquanderer]

65. The bankruptcy laws were more consumer-friendly before the act...

...and then after the act, the laws and terms were mostly changed to favor the banks.

It's not that people can't declare bankruptcy anymore... it's just that the banks now make out better and the people make out worse.

It almost passed in the 90s, but Clinton vetoed it. Congress continued to work on it, and eventually, George W. Bush signed it.

[5starlib]

82. I handle bankruptcies at my job everyday for a medical billing company

Trust me, no one is having any problems filing today. I get stacks of them everyday. The big difference is that there is a financial literacy course that is online at lasts a couple of hours I think. I think it's slightly more expensive too, maybe a few hundred dollars, but nothing major. I don't know if I've met anyone that said they couldn't file bankruptcy because of that law. I think people and their lawyers have adjusted to the new law to where it's not a big deal anymore.

[thesquanderer]

85. The new law doesn't stop people from filing bankruptcy...

...but they have to do it on terms that are more favorable to the banks and less favorable to them, compared to before 2005.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bankruptcy_Abuse_Prevention_and_Consumer_Protection_Act

[Blue_true]

25. Even if he is prepared, I just don't see him going nose to nose with Liz and winning.

She is a storage facility of knowledge and she is quick on her feet. There are so many traps for him debating Warren.

[customerserviceguy]

27. Even if she's an encycopedia

he'll have to conquer that with his personality. Few people grab volume "E" of the encyclopedia and read it from cover to cover (I'm obviously talking about a pre-Wikipedia time here.)

She has a tendency to lecture, and he has folksiness that she doesn't always show, and that gives him a chance to at least get to a draw. He's not going to get bushwhacked again.

[Blue_true]

28. We will see in about 3 weeks.

I have noticed that Warren has made some changes. She had a hitch in her speech that she no longer regularly have and she is a lot more conversational with voters than she started out. I would not give Joe the edge on personal appeal, but I do admit most guys at least would drink a beer with him over Warren, though I think most women would choose Warren.

[customerserviceguy]

35. It will be interesting n/t

[marylandblue]

36. I think his personality is part of his problem.

He gets very defensive and self-righteous when under attack. It doesn't work. Instead of defending his past record he needs to talk about the future. I'm not sure he can do that.

[customerserviceguy]

38. The way I saw it

Sen. Harris dented his African-American support, I don't think the dust-up had much effect on his white support.

He'll talk about having a sane President again, and will assure us that he's the only candidate that can make that happen. Refocusing the electorate on the benefits of dumping Trump will help them to realize that a 40-50 year old fight over busing is not something to be concerned about for their future.

[marylandblue]

41. Well, there's a really interesting subtext about Trump.

A lot of people assume that this election is about beating Trump. If you think that, Biden is your candidate because he mentioned Trump more than anyone else in the debate.

I think this election is really about defeating the corrupt system that produced Trump. That's Warren's view and so she didn't mention Trump at all.

So I am not on board with refocusing on Trump, I left him behind a long time ago and am not going back. I'm hoping Warren convinces you we have a systemic problem and Trump is just a logical outcome of it, not just an aberration.

[customerserviceguy]

42. Oh, I'll vote for Warren in the general

But in the SC primary, I'm not leaning her way.

[marylandblue]

43. Maybe you are not leaning her way yet, but if you give her a chance,

you might find her convincing. Or maybe Buttigieg who is talking along the same lines, but I doubt he will South Carolina, so I'm with Warren now.

[customerserviceguy]

44. Both Warren and Buttigieg

are having trouble with African-American voters in SC, unless something big happens, I do not expect either of them to do well here. Sen. Harris may be gaining steam, but Sen. Booker still can't find a way to break through. At this point, I'd have to give SC to Joe Biden, but it's a long way until the SC primary.

Of course, I will watch the debates, and will see Sen. Warren state her positions and see how she comes across. The first debate was really no contest for her, she was a Goliath in the midst of many Davids, and none of them even loaded a sling to toss at her. It will be different in the future debates. Given Sen. Harris' proclivity to attack, I fully expect her to unload the Native American/DNA thing on Sen. Warren.

[Blue_true]

49. You are really hung up on the Warren genetic test thing.

But even national level tribal leaders, after explaining how a person goes about claiming Native American heritage, gave it all a big shrug and started talking to the Warren campaign, because they realize Warren would be far better on their issues than Trump would be in a million years. To most people, it boils down to practical everyday concerns, they really don't care that Warren is 1/8 American Indian, or that Booker is part White, or Harris half Hindu India. What most people care about is who best can set a stable country where people can go about improving their lives and buikding on the future.

On African Anerican support, Biden can't take that for granted. I read an interview by him today that left me feeling that he still does not get it. Any person that lived in a once segregated county like I was born in and deals with Black people regularly will understand that the way Biden talked about his relationship with hardened segregationists and his defense of state's rights is NOT what Black people want to hear. Biden is a good person, but even good people routinely turn a blind eye to injustices, we see that, I believe, in the persistence of systemic racism in all aspects of American life. I really think that when African Americans examine the full life record of a person like Warren or Buttigieg, they as individuals will make a decision about whether or not to support them, nothing is set in stone right now. I really don't see Warren as the type that will go around sitting in the front pews of Black churches, but I do see her as the type that will quietly engage the Black community about it's concerns, listen and collaboratively work toward practical solutions with Black political and social leaders, I think at some point Blacks will start to see that in her, a genuineness that is natural for her and a determination to get things right. I have Massachusetts friends who have seen Warren up close, anyone that thinks she will go into a room or hall with a lot of Black people and not come out with a large number of them supporting her, know nothing about what she is capable of.

[emulatorloo]

62. You seem to be really hung up on misrepresenting Biden

JMHO, I guess I could be reading your posts wrong.


OTOH, seems like Harris has moved on:

Link to tweet

[Blue_true]

66. Actually I like Joe. I just am unsure of whether he would be our best nominee.

On Harris, my belief is that she should not have brought up Joe's past of busing to integrate unless she was prepared to stay with her effort and finish him.

I am not sure that he will be as lucky with Warren and credit card/banking regulations and bankruptcy law. I just view Warren as a better puncher than Harris and I don't believe Warren will start a fight that she cannot finish.

Just my views. I will happily support whoever wins our party's nomination, because we should have clearly seen yesterday what the alternative is.

[emulatorloo]

68. Yes Warren is good. She and Biden are collegial though, so I bet she'll fight fair and square

She’s def on my shortlist!

[customerserviceguy]

74. It was an unforced error

and one of her biggest vulnerabilities. She let Trump get into her head, then she tried to spin her 1/64th (or whatever) as being the basis for her claims, even with no known named ancestor. I do genealogy, and I've worked with many people who could indeed trace their ancestry to recorded persons of Native American heritage.

Seeing her list her race as "American Indian" on the Texas Bar Association form really showed that she was possibly trying to get something from that status, even though she was not brought up with the prejudice that Native people deal with in American society.

It's going to dog her till the end, and if she ever does face Trump on a debate stage, we know what he'll do with it. Her problem is not with Native American tribes who are willing to let it go, her problem is with white voters who may see her as unfairly trying to game the system.

[Blue_true]

75. She should punch Trump back.

Trump applied for 9/11 funds, even though none of his properties were affected. So let him hit at Warren, she should put up a commercial on loop mode about how scummy he was to apply for and get and spend 9/11 funds that he did not deserve. We need a nominee who is going to strike back at Trump, I believe Warren has that. There is a lot more Trump scummery out there than the 9/11 funds, there is failing to pay debts, for campaign events, even for his inauguration, cheating contractors and employees. Trump is a walking sewer, Hillary took a turn the other cheek tact with him and I am afraid Biden may try the same approach, my approach with Trump is that if he goes into the sewer, I will jump in there with him and only I would emerge after in a philosophical sense, I think Warren has the mindset.

[customerserviceguy]

76. If it comes down to the two of them

it will be the first Presidential debate in history that will require designation of a safe word.

[Blue_true]

84. Our candidate should make a point about Trump's scumminess in debates.

Hillary walked around it while he attacked her and her husband's past indescretions. Screw that, his rotten apples are a lot more numerous and stinking than any our nominee will have, our nominee need to attack Trump's rotten character full bore, no holds barred.

[Blue_true]

48. The election is going to be squarely about which President can best prepare the nation

for a future that is both full of challenges and full of opportunities. The person who can best transmit a rational vision of where we should go will likely be our next President. Trump traffics on hate and resentment, those appeals only take a person so far. We need to nominate a person that returns a desire to dream about a future to the Americans that are not haters, but who voted for Trump because they believed that Hillary would do the same things that have resulted on them getting left behind. How to bring economic growth to rural communities that don't offer much is a very challenging problem, President Obama made some progress in stopping the bleeding in those places, but many voters there felt that was not enough. Trump has taken rural communities backwards. Yes there is a lot of hate and paranoia in those places, but there also are a lot of people that want to feel hopeful when the look at their lives and the futures of their children. I like the way that Warren is campaigning, she is going into the left behind places and she is drawing big respectful crowds. The person that we need to nominate is a person that can reduce Trump's vote margin in the red areas and smash him in the urban and Surburban areas, of all the candidates, Warren seems to best be laying the groundwork for such outcomes.

[R B Garr]

3. It looked to me that Joe had plenty to say but he held

his tongue. Smart move on his part. I bet he knew things about Kamala’s record jailing folks, but he didn’t say anything. Lots of articles about who she targeted, but I won’t link.

Joe has said he would refrain from attacking fellow Democrats, so it will be easy to get over on him. If he’s lied about or misrepresented, maybe he will react, but who wouldn’t.

[customerserviceguy]

45. He refrained

because he thought of her as a low-tier candidate. That won't be the case the next time they meet on a debate stage. Joe Biden knew that his main mission in the Palin debate was to not look like he was beating up on a woman, he was to let her dig her political grave with her own tongue. I think he was in that mode in the last debate, next time, he will take the gloves off a bit.

[Blue_true]

52. Joe's worst politicalnightmare will bring on stage in a debate with both Harris and Warren on stage.

Last edited Fri Jul 5, 2019, 02:56 PM - Edit history (1)

That could likely happen in the debate later this month. I will bet that the DNC and the network that will televise the debate are going to work hard to get the top 5-6 candidates on the same stage on the same night.
It looks like Swawell in reconsidering and may drop out. I really hope that other candidates that are getting no traction see the obvious and do the same thing so that we get on to the main event, the top candidates defining their vision for the country.

[emulatorloo]

64. I'd imagine Joe's worst nightmare was his wife's death in a car accident and his son taken by cancer

[Blue_true]

67. You make an excellent point. I will change my title to "political nightmare". nt

[emulatorloo]

69. ...

[customerserviceguy]

73. Thank you for changing it

If Joe Biden could get his family back by giving up on being president, he would do so in a heartbeat. It's Trump that thinks that politics is more important than anything.

And there will be no need to rush anything, I'm sure of two things. One is that the top polling candidates will be randomly selected like last time, and the other is that before we get the first votes cast in Iowa, Biden, Harris, and Warren will be on a debate stage, without the vanity candidates taking up space.

[Blue_true]

50. Before I logged onto DU today, I read a just published interview with Biden that had

a lot of direct quotes from him. I was left with the feeling that he still does not get it. He kept saying that people know him. Maybe so, but if he does not define himself in active words, a person like Trump will paint him as something that he is not and make that stick in the minds of a lot of people. I just did not come away from reading that interview that Biden would be a street fighter in the General, a street fighter is just what we need. I could be wrong, but I see Warren and Harris as street fighters, Harris a little wilder with her punches than Warren, but I feel both will appropriately bloody and then defeat Trump in the General. I see Biden being a little like Hillary was with Trump, allowing Trump to paint an inaccurate picture of her physical wellbeing and then helping cement that image by taking days off the campaign trail, I just don't see Warren, in particular, making that tactical error. I see Warren going everywhere, as she is now doing, it is no surprise that a poll of rural Iowan show her opening up a big support gap on Biden, she is going into those red places and taking to people, my guess is that she is quietly doing the same with Blacks in South Carolina and Hispanics, Asians and women in Nevada, and women and young people in New Hampshire. On the end the efforts that take place out of the limelight will prove to be critical to getting a good result on primary day. I see Warren following the path that President Obama took in 2008, quietly building a statewide support network of adherents who then go out and spread the word about her, then she comes in to attend events the news media does not cover and seals the deal with voters. I bet that no one know that Warren spend part of last week speaking to crowds in rural towns of Indiana and Iowa, but my friend that have watched her up close say that is how she rolls, unassuming, meeting people where they are and turning them into converts.

[sop]

4. Which candidate will take a run at Harris, now that she's up in the polls?

I predict Booker will step up his criticisms of Joe after seeing how well it paid off for Kamala.

[EffieBlack]

6. That will be interesting to see, too

And I wonder if the people who got so exorcized about Harris challenging Biden will be similarly upset when someone challenges her.

[Hortensis]

8. We're on the same side here no matter what.

[highplainsdem]

11. Mayor Pete's communications advisor took a swipe at Harris this morning:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287189365

[R B Garr]

14. Actually, Biden himself was very gracious when asked

about this today in Iowa. He said Harris is very intelligent and other complimentary observations. He had Kamala’s back.

[emulatorloo]

57. If Harris' record is distorted the way Biden's was i'll be pissed as hell

I’m not a fan of that kind of ruthless distortion aimed at any of our Democratic Candidates. It’s not cute and it’s not great strategy. It’s nothing to celebrate or be gleeful about.

Baseless character attacks on our candidates are not cool.

Link to tweet

[silentEcho]

5. Isn't this what this period is suppose to be about?

Most are not even listening yet. I want to hear where the candidates are coming from, how they present themselves, whether they are smart enough to get America to listen.

I am hearing mostly from Warren with solid conversation. But, I am also easily sway-able. We have a lot of smart people running. Mostly, I am going to sit back and listen for the next 6 months, then get serious once we get the lay of the land.

[EffieBlack]

7. I like Warren a lot.

She’ll probably be on the spot soon, too.

[silentEcho]

10. Ya, but HRC was for years, decades and being smart and true, did pretty good.

There will be things to address and we accept them or we do not, then move on. Obama certainly had to address this thru out his 8 years.

I am pretty confident in Warrens ability to deal with issues, reasonably. Warren is pragmatic and direct. So are other candidates. And mostly, that is what i am looking for. Problems arise. How does one handle the problems.

[tirebiter]

9. Trump is the target

Not attacking Trump normalizes hiim. Who wants that?

[BeyondGeography]

12. It's in Detroit, post-NAACP convention

Harris will have to defend and consolidate her gains with black voters. I expect her to take some incoming from Biden and Booker, who needs to get in the game.

One thing about Warren, she will not attack a fellow Democrat on her own at a debate; not her style. If directly asked about the bankruptcy bill otoh she will have no choice but to draw a contrast with Biden.

[Demsrule86]

24. I like Warren but believe the positions she has taken will hurt her in a general.

[Vegas Roller]

15. Joe is the best candidate to defeat Trump

I don't think any of the real Democratic candidates can lose a single state won by Hillary.

Joe Biden guarantees us a win in Pennsylvania and Michigan plus a highly probably win in Wisconsin.

As much as proponents of a female candidate want Biden to be wounded and destroyed, it will only result in the reelection of Trump.


None of them is Obama and Obama won in 2008 against McCain who did not have adoring fans like Trump does.

[Demsrule86]

22. +1000 I want to beat Trump.

[ucrdem]

16. LOL, he thought faster than Kamala who was expecting an apology. And now she's walking it all back.

Fatal error? Probably but Joe will save her if has too.

[EffieBlack]

18. She didn't ask for an apology. She asked him if he was wrong to take the position he did

[highplainsdem]

20. And she's being called out for backtracking and waffling,

by journalists pointing out she has a history of this.

[Demsrule86]

23. I dislike Kamala at this point and I believe the busing stunt will hurt her...won't vote for her in

any primary but will in a general. But I doubt she will be the candidate. I actually liked her before the debates.

[Thekaspervote]

37. Agree!!

[emulatorloo]

59. You mean the position she's taking now, now that she's had time to think about it?

Link to tweet

Maybe it’s time for you to let this go?. You appear to have backed yourself into a corner.

Harris is on my shortlist. Do you have anything positive to tell me about her that will push me in her direction? Thanks in advance.

[tishaLA]

33. Hilarious when Biden asked for an apology

From Sen Booker for having the temerity to object to Biden's comments

[RandySF]

17. Bernie

He's on the verge of getting eclipsed by Joe, Kamala and Elizabeth and becoming irrelevant.

[Tiggeroshii]

51. Agreed.

[Demsrule86]

19. None I hope...already crossed the last one off my primary list- vote in general yes...

especially since she is now she has the same position as Biden...

[oasis]

30. I guess it'll be anyone who admonishes the others about "food fights".

[Cha]

72. Right before they throw

a "plate full of Spaghetti" at their rival?

[still_one]

77. FOOD FIGHT!!!

[Cha]

80. Exactly! Thanks, still_one.. just

what a certain candidate said "Voters didn't want a food fight". Well they got it anyway from the one who said that.

[still_one]

81. Funny how things like that sometimes happen

[oasis]

83. People better start playing it fair and square with Joe.

[emmaverybo]

31. They will have learned that cynical, emotionalized and pre-packaged sucker punches might not

look as good as expected, so I think future challenges will eschew underhanded tactic in favor of honest debate.

Biden is good at that and his challengers have their own vulnerabilities which will emerge with or without Biden drawing attention to them.

Op delight at more divisive ugliness strikes me as a bit “too....”

Too interested. And interested more from a spectator-sport vantage point than any other concern that might move us against Trump and co. and forward to a more equitable and humane nation.

[njhoneybadger]

70. Yes, I think most of us share your opinion of the Op

[tishaLA]

32. I predict lots of talk about MBNA,

The bankruptcy bill, and his support for banks that engaged in predatory lending against African Americans and Latinos.

Sen Warren would be the logical, and best, person to bring it up.

[myohmy2]

39. Joe...

...did seem to have a 'deer in the headlight' moment or two during the last debate...

"Which candidate(s) will take a run at Biden in the next debate..."

...I'd say Bernie...it's too crowded at that end of the age spectrum...

...someone has to go...

...

[SouthernProgressive]

47. Maybe someone who agrees with his position on same sex marriage?

Maybe they will take a shot and then spend the next week correcting their own record.

[emulatorloo]

58. Lol, well done

[stonecutter357]

53. you seem very concerned !

[njhoneybadger]

54. Don't count your chickens before they hatch it ain't over yet

[MineralMan]

55. The one(s) who want to lose?

All candidates would do better to sell themselves, rather thant "take a run at" someone else.

[emulatorloo]

60. +1

[emulatorloo]

56. Biden was 'aggressive' and 'angry?' That's a new one.

[EffieBlack]

71. I didn't say Biden was "aggressive and angry"

I said the response was.

If I had intended to describe Biden that way, I would have.

[emulatorloo]

86. A distinction without a difference. You wrote:

“And I wonder if the reaction will be as aggressive and angry as the response to his record being challenged in the last debate. “

We all know what you meant. You just escalated your baseless smears of Biden’s character and then played word games when it was pointed out to you.



i’ll repeat, I’ll be protecting all of our candidates against manufacturered character assassination.

That includes Senator Hattis, who was smeared early one. Those smears will be revived if she moves up in the polls. And it won’t be coming from the Biden camp.

You are a good person and at some point I’m sure you’ll start pushing back on false character attacks.

[EffieBlack]

87. You're not "protecting" Biden and you definitely aren't protecting other candidates

What you’re doing is running around jumping into thread after thread attacking anyone who criticizes Biden - while taking jabs at the other candidates along the way and crying, “Who, me?whenever you get called on it.

You must think we can’t see you ...

[emulatorloo]

88. Try to avoid personal attacks. I'm not your "arch enemy" and you aren't mine

We’re both here to help defeat Trump and get a president who will lift up the 99%, who is serious about civil rights, and will protect the most vulnerable people in our society.. Everyone of our candidates believes in what we believe in. Everyone of them is of good character. And there is not that much daylight between them on core policy..

I’ll ask you not to twist my words when I said I have and will protect Harris, Beto, Warren, and others from unfair smears. You seem to suggest that’s a “jab?”

Nope. It is a vow I made for 2020 Primary, to push back when any of our candidates gets unfairly personally attacked.

That’s what I’ve done and I will continue to do - push back on unfair character assignation. As a Sanders supporter in. 2016, I pushed back on smears about HRC. I was accused of many things that weren’t true by my fellow Sanders supporters.

I’ve had a smear campaign launched against me in my professional. It’s not fun. Lied about by a jealous co-worker. Took months to get me cleared, what he said was false.

My parents raised me to have a strong sense of fairness. No doubt your parents raised you the same.

Take care and have a relaxing Sunday evening

[SouthernProgressive]

63. This seems aggressive and angry.

And way out of place.

[connecticut yankee]

78. None of them

I thought Kamala Harris's attack of Joe Biden was totally uncalled for. The Democratic candidates should not be tearing each other down, providing fodder for Trump, but should highlight their own strengths and proposed programs.

[still_one]

79. They will all join hands and sing kum ba yah