Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 02:55 PM Jun 2019

If an elected official said I support gay marriage

as long as it's voluntary, i.e., the local government voluntarily issues licemses and recognized gay marriage, but I don't believe the federal government has any right to force local communities to perform or recognize same-sex marriage," would you think that's acceptable?

If not, do you understand why many people have an issue with his state's rights defense of his position on busing and why we are hoping he'll clarify where he stands?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
21 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
If an elected official said I support gay marriage (Original Post) EffieBlack Jun 2019 OP
Had an elected official said this 50 years ago, and for the past 40 years championed gay rights, I emmaverybo Jun 2019 #1
And both Biden and Obama have openly talked a out their evolution on this issue EffieBlack Jun 2019 #3
Then why didn't *he* say that? Act_of_Reparation Jun 2019 #16
Biden came out for federal same sex marriage before Obama, and in some ways forced Obama's hand emulatorloo Jun 2019 #2
I'm not trying to tear Biden down and it's a perfect analogy. You just don't seem to understand it EffieBlack Jun 2019 #4
Don't insult my intelligence please. I disagree with your characterization of what Biden said. emulatorloo Jun 2019 #5
x1000 peggysue2 Jun 2019 #19
If a candidate said that fifty years ago... SouthernProgressive Jun 2019 #6
Then why doesn't he just say that instead of doubling down on what he said 50 years ago? EffieBlack Jun 2019 #7
From the point I made above, the demand makes no sense. NT SouthernProgressive Jun 2019 #8
This message was self-deleted by its author emulatorloo Jun 2019 #9
If it doesn't make sense to you, don't ask it EffieBlack Jun 2019 #12
I didn't ask it. SouthernProgressive Jun 2019 #15
I'm not jumping into that trap. EffieBlack Jun 2019 #17
"Can you point to his actions in the last decade that give you this level of concern? Actual actions emulatorloo Jun 2019 #10
How about: Not admitting now that he was wrong then? bluewater Jun 2019 #11
How about: lightening up on the negative campaigning and posting good things about Warren. emulatorloo Jun 2019 #14
Answering a direct question YOU posted is now bad form? bluewater Jun 2019 #18
Not everyone, and this included pro-civil rights supporters, and black families as well, felt emmaverybo Jun 2019 #20
+1000 doing what he's been doing is the best response to all this 'concern" and the one that makes emmaverybo Jun 2019 #21
he was wrong barbtries Jun 2019 #13
 

emmaverybo

(8,144 posts)
1. Had an elected official said this 50 years ago, and for the past 40 years championed gay rights, I
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 02:59 PM
Jun 2019

think I’d let it go. I have a gay daughter, yet I volunteered for Obama’s campaign, voted for him,
despite his stance against gay marriage. Of course Obama did evolve, thanks to s nudge from
Joe Biden.

And he evolved rather later than sooner.

At the time Obama believed marriage should only be a right for heterosexuals, Ted Bundy and Susan
Smith would have had a right to marry.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
3. And both Biden and Obama have openly talked a out their evolution on this issue
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 03:06 PM
Jun 2019

But Biden's not doing this about his busing position. He's defending his view federal government shouldn't have been involved, suggesting that he feels the same way about it today. I don't think people are unhappy that he may have felt this way 50 years ago, but it's concerning that he has, so far, refused to say he thinks he was wrong.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
16. Then why didn't *he* say that?
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 03:55 PM
Jun 2019

Biden could have said it was 40 years ago, he's since changed his mind, he's sorry, etc., but he doubled down on it instead. Why?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

emulatorloo

(43,979 posts)
2. Biden came out for federal same sex marriage before Obama, and in some ways forced Obama's hand
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 03:02 PM
Jun 2019

on that issue. So that’s a bad analogy if you are wanting to tear Biden down.

Biden gave a speech today at the Rainbow/Push Coalition Convention where he laid out his record on civil rights. Sounds like it was very well received.

Maybe we can find a stream later.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
4. I'm not trying to tear Biden down and it's a perfect analogy. You just don't seem to understand it
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 03:09 PM
Jun 2019

The position I described is a classic state's rights position whereby a person believes the federal government should play no role in enforcing civil rights at a local level. he obviously no longer feels that way about getting marriage. But last night he reiterated that position about desegregation. The two positions are not compatible.

I would like to hear him confirm that he no longer believes that the federal government should play no role in enforcing desegregation.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

emulatorloo

(43,979 posts)
5. Don't insult my intelligence please. I disagree with your characterization of what Biden said.
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 03:21 PM
Jun 2019

And your apparent drive to paint Biden as a ‘segregationist’ when you know as well as I do that busing was controversial with AA community and left liberals once it was implemented. It seemed like a great idea, but there were tons of untended consequences.

And I seriously doubt Senator Harris is going to campaign on reinstating busing as it was back then.

I am protective of all our candidates and don’t like seeing them misrepresented. I especially don’t like character attacks. Trust me when someone goes after Senator Harris with innuendo and half truths (“Kamala is a cop”) l’ll be right there defending her. And i’ll defend all of our candidates against misleading attacks

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

peggysue2

(10,811 posts)
19. x1000
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 04:31 PM
Jun 2019

Thank you for that well-stated comment, emulatorloo.

Btw, there is an attack I saw today (posted on DU) against Kamala Harris raging on twitter. Really foul stuff and needs to be slapped down immediately.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

SouthernProgressive

(1,810 posts)
6. If a candidate said that fifty years ago...
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 03:27 PM
Jun 2019

Then spend decades being all in, I would be damn good with it. Can you point to his actions in the last decade that give you this level of concern? Actual actions he had taken as a Senator or VP?

Sometimes the question is bullshit so you simply highlight your record.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287173909

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287174768

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287176093

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
7. Then why doesn't he just say that instead of doubling down on what he said 50 years ago?
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 03:35 PM
Jun 2019

His stubborn refusal to do that makes no sense.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

SouthernProgressive

(1,810 posts)
8. From the point I made above, the demand makes no sense. NT
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 03:37 PM
Jun 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

Response to SouthernProgressive (Reply #8)

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
12. If it doesn't make sense to you, don't ask it
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 03:47 PM
Jun 2019

But other people who have concerns that you may not share have every right to ask and expect an answer

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

SouthernProgressive

(1,810 posts)
15. I didn't ask it.
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 03:51 PM
Jun 2019

I wouldn't ask.

I will expand my time-frame. How about in the last two decades?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
17. I'm not jumping into that trap.
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 03:57 PM
Jun 2019

But nice try ...

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

emulatorloo

(43,979 posts)
10. "Can you point to his actions in the last decade that give you this level of concern? Actual actions
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 03:42 PM
Jun 2019

Actual actions he had taken as a Senator or VP?”

That’s a really good question.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

bluewater

(5,376 posts)
11. How about: Not admitting now that he was wrong then?
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 03:47 PM
Jun 2019

And using a States Rights argument to defend himself yesterday?

That's what many people find so upsetting in our front runner for the 2020 Nomination.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

emulatorloo

(43,979 posts)
14. How about: lightening up on the negative campaigning and posting good things about Warren.
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 03:48 PM
Jun 2019

I’m undecided. Negative campaigning doesn’t sway me very often, and if it does it backfires.

Warren’s on my short list. Convincing your fellow DU’ers to support Warren would be a great thing to do.

I know you have it in you!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

bluewater

(5,376 posts)
18. Answering a direct question YOU posted is now bad form?
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 04:10 PM
Jun 2019

Last edited Fri Jun 28, 2019, 05:23 PM - Edit history (1)

If you don't want people to actually answer the question you put out in posts, how are we supposed to know?

You posted:
" "Actual actions he had taken as a Senator or VP?”

That’s a really good question."


I responded to you:
"How about: Not admitting now that he was wrong then?
And using a States Rights argument to defend himself yesterday?
That's what many people find so upsetting in our front runner for the 2020 Nomination."


So, are only people that agree with you allowed to respond to your direct questions?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

emmaverybo

(8,144 posts)
20. Not everyone, and this included pro-civil rights supporters, and black families as well, felt
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 05:23 PM
Jun 2019

that the way to an equal education and social integration was forced busing. It was viewed by some anti-segregationists as a statement that black children had to learn in predominantly white
neighborhoods at white schools with white students and mostly white teachers in order to succeed,
to grow intellectually, to educate themselves.

An argument was made that this was a white elitist idea, implying white superiority, not equal rights.

Why was there not an equal investment in predominantly black community schools was a legitimate question.

There were a host of concerns both practical and protective of children’s, yes, black children’s emotional well-being to consider. We were asking children to socially integrate themselves in a society at large that was not integrated. So was this a solution or would it create more problems than it solved?

One more thing. Harris has said that Biden praised segregationists and his story was about respecting them. His story was about civility and he had respect for civility as a way to “get the job done.” He should not have to apologize for misinterpretations no matter how free of ill intent.

Obama was forced politically to renounce his friendship with Reverend Wright and he had to address the nation about race because he was suspected of being racist against whites. Reverend Wright’s comments about 9/11, taken out of context from a passionate and patriotic speech, were played over and over again, while he was the subject of endless MSM bashings. Wright became by proxy what was subversive and anti-American in Obama.

This parsing, smearing, guilt by association campaign is a bad process by which to evaluate a candidate. Tearing down white liberal support for Obama was an essential goal to trying to destroy his character and fitness.

Tearing down black support for Biden and exposing him as being not a racist but not really a civil rights proponent is a misguided effort. It may work but it is divisive and does not further the discussion of issues we should be having about multiple ways in which historical racism affects the daily lives of diverse populations today.

I suggest we concentrate our full efforts on the racists at hand who control all the levers of power in our nation. They, not Biden are actively promoting racist, sexist, ethnophobic, and anti- GLBTpolicies while doing nothing to prevent and ultimately eliminate systemic oppression, injustice, and brutality
of all deemed “the other” in America, the deeming done by those holding power and abusing it. If this describes Joe Biden, who will it describe next?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

emmaverybo

(8,144 posts)
21. +1000 doing what he's been doing is the best response to all this 'concern" and the one that makes
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 06:16 PM
Jun 2019

sense.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

barbtries

(28,702 posts)
13. he was wrong
Fri Jun 28, 2019, 03:47 PM
Jun 2019

and has not admitted it yet. of course it's no better than the argument that the civil war was about states rights. States don't have the right to impinge on the basic rights afforded by the constitution, or to violate the Civil Rights Act, and Biden's unfortunate argument was that they should. she was more gracious than I may have been. States have no rights to segregation based on race. even at the time Biden must have known that they made that argument in order to perpetuate racial segregation in their states. that was not okay.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»Democratic Primaries»If an elected official sa...