Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumIf an elected official said I support gay marriage
as long as it's voluntary, i.e., the local government voluntarily issues licemses and recognized gay marriage, but I don't believe the federal government has any right to force local communities to perform or recognize same-sex marriage," would you think that's acceptable?
If not, do you understand why many people have an issue with his state's rights defense of his position on busing and why we are hoping he'll clarify where he stands?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)think Id let it go. I have a gay daughter, yet I volunteered for Obamas campaign, voted for him,
despite his stance against gay marriage. Of course Obama did evolve, thanks to s nudge from
Joe Biden.
And he evolved rather later than sooner.
At the time Obama believed marriage should only be a right for heterosexuals, Ted Bundy and Susan
Smith would have had a right to marry.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)But Biden's not doing this about his busing position. He's defending his view federal government shouldn't have been involved, suggesting that he feels the same way about it today. I don't think people are unhappy that he may have felt this way 50 years ago, but it's concerning that he has, so far, refused to say he thinks he was wrong.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)Biden could have said it was 40 years ago, he's since changed his mind, he's sorry, etc., but he doubled down on it instead. Why?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
emulatorloo
(43,979 posts)on that issue. So thats a bad analogy if you are wanting to tear Biden down.
Biden gave a speech today at the Rainbow/Push Coalition Convention where he laid out his record on civil rights. Sounds like it was very well received.
Maybe we can find a stream later.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)The position I described is a classic state's rights position whereby a person believes the federal government should play no role in enforcing civil rights at a local level. he obviously no longer feels that way about getting marriage. But last night he reiterated that position about desegregation. The two positions are not compatible.
I would like to hear him confirm that he no longer believes that the federal government should play no role in enforcing desegregation.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
emulatorloo
(43,979 posts)And your apparent drive to paint Biden as a segregationist when you know as well as I do that busing was controversial with AA community and left liberals once it was implemented. It seemed like a great idea, but there were tons of untended consequences.
And I seriously doubt Senator Harris is going to campaign on reinstating busing as it was back then.
I am protective of all our candidates and dont like seeing them misrepresented. I especially dont like character attacks. Trust me when someone goes after Senator Harris with innuendo and half truths (Kamala is a cop) lll be right there defending her. And ill defend all of our candidates against misleading attacks
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
peggysue2
(10,811 posts)Thank you for that well-stated comment, emulatorloo.
Btw, there is an attack I saw today (posted on DU) against Kamala Harris raging on twitter. Really foul stuff and needs to be slapped down immediately.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
SouthernProgressive
(1,810 posts)Then spend decades being all in, I would be damn good with it. Can you point to his actions in the last decade that give you this level of concern? Actual actions he had taken as a Senator or VP?
Sometimes the question is bullshit so you simply highlight your record.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287173909
https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287174768
https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287176093
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)His stubborn refusal to do that makes no sense.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
SouthernProgressive
(1,810 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Response to SouthernProgressive (Reply #8)
emulatorloo This message was self-deleted by its author.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)But other people who have concerns that you may not share have every right to ask and expect an answer
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
SouthernProgressive
(1,810 posts)I wouldn't ask.
I will expand my time-frame. How about in the last two decades?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)But nice try ...
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
emulatorloo
(43,979 posts)Actual actions he had taken as a Senator or VP?
Thats a really good question.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
bluewater
(5,376 posts)And using a States Rights argument to defend himself yesterday?
That's what many people find so upsetting in our front runner for the 2020 Nomination.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
emulatorloo
(43,979 posts)Im undecided. Negative campaigning doesnt sway me very often, and if it does it backfires.
Warrens on my short list. Convincing your fellow DUers to support Warren would be a great thing to do.
I know you have it in you!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
bluewater
(5,376 posts)Last edited Fri Jun 28, 2019, 05:23 PM - Edit history (1)
If you don't want people to actually answer the question you put out in posts, how are we supposed to know?
You posted:
" "Actual actions he had taken as a Senator or VP?
Thats a really good question."
I responded to you:
"How about: Not admitting now that he was wrong then?
And using a States Rights argument to defend himself yesterday?
That's what many people find so upsetting in our front runner for the 2020 Nomination."
So, are only people that agree with you allowed to respond to your direct questions?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)that the way to an equal education and social integration was forced busing. It was viewed by some anti-segregationists as a statement that black children had to learn in predominantly white
neighborhoods at white schools with white students and mostly white teachers in order to succeed,
to grow intellectually, to educate themselves.
An argument was made that this was a white elitist idea, implying white superiority, not equal rights.
Why was there not an equal investment in predominantly black community schools was a legitimate question.
There were a host of concerns both practical and protective of childrens, yes, black childrens emotional well-being to consider. We were asking children to socially integrate themselves in a society at large that was not integrated. So was this a solution or would it create more problems than it solved?
One more thing. Harris has said that Biden praised segregationists and his story was about respecting them. His story was about civility and he had respect for civility as a way to get the job done. He should not have to apologize for misinterpretations no matter how free of ill intent.
Obama was forced politically to renounce his friendship with Reverend Wright and he had to address the nation about race because he was suspected of being racist against whites. Reverend Wrights comments about 9/11, taken out of context from a passionate and patriotic speech, were played over and over again, while he was the subject of endless MSM bashings. Wright became by proxy what was subversive and anti-American in Obama.
This parsing, smearing, guilt by association campaign is a bad process by which to evaluate a candidate. Tearing down white liberal support for Obama was an essential goal to trying to destroy his character and fitness.
Tearing down black support for Biden and exposing him as being not a racist but not really a civil rights proponent is a misguided effort. It may work but it is divisive and does not further the discussion of issues we should be having about multiple ways in which historical racism affects the daily lives of diverse populations today.
I suggest we concentrate our full efforts on the racists at hand who control all the levers of power in our nation. They, not Biden are actively promoting racist, sexist, ethnophobic, and anti- GLBTpolicies while doing nothing to prevent and ultimately eliminate systemic oppression, injustice, and brutality
of all deemed the other in America, the deeming done by those holding power and abusing it. If this describes Joe Biden, who will it describe next?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)sense.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
barbtries
(28,702 posts)and has not admitted it yet. of course it's no better than the argument that the civil war was about states rights. States don't have the right to impinge on the basic rights afforded by the constitution, or to violate the Civil Rights Act, and Biden's unfortunate argument was that they should. she was more gracious than I may have been. States have no rights to segregation based on race. even at the time Biden must have known that they made that argument in order to perpetuate racial segregation in their states. that was not okay.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden