Is Sanders past his sell-by date?

[brooklynite]

Washington Post

The conventional wisdom has finally caught up to what moderate Democrats have known for years: There are a lot of Democratic voters nowhere near as extreme as Sanders, and these voters are going to be content with simply finding a winner.

As former North Dakota senator Heidi Heitkamp (D) said on ABC’s “This Week”: "One of the things that I know from talking to the most liberal of Democrats is they want someone who can win.” She observed that “when they see the polling numbers out of Michigan and Pennsylvania, and they see that this president already has got double-digit lead over — this candidate, Biden has a double-digit lead over the president, they’re like okay, let’s get on board, let’s make sure we do the one thing we all want to do, which is defeat Donald Trump as the next president of the United States.”

If the primary contest were about ideological rigidity, Sanders might win. That, however, doesn’t look like what is motivating Democrats. “When you look at what Democrats want, they want someone who can beat this president, and they’re willing to look at any range of issues as long as they’re in change from what we have whether it’s on health care, whether it’s on climate, we don’t need to be, you know, arguing the extremes,” Heitkamp says. “We just need to say what we’re seeing right now, ignoring climate, ignoring the immigration problem, ignoring wealth in — disparity in this country. Those are not a path forward.”

Biden may have a tougher time with more moderate contenders or with Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) and her filing cabinet filled with policy ideas. (Compared to Sanders, she’s much more willing, for example, to look at intermediary steps before we reach the nirvana of Medicare-for-all.) Moreover, standing next to Sanders on the debate stage, Biden may look a whole lot younger than his 76 years. He sure is going to sound a lot more reasonable and informed.

[spooky3]

1. I think a lot of people prefer a candidate with evidence of

Success in getting good things done.

[Gothmog]

7. agreed

I have yet to see a good description of sanders' legislative accomplishments other than naming some post offices

[NurseJackie]

25. I prefer a candidate who doesn't stumble over EASY questions about abortion...

... and I prefer a candidate who is PREPARED to talk about the women's issues that MATTER when attending the "She the People" conference (instead of just sticking to the standard stump speech.)

[George Eliot]

105. You forgot to say "In my opinion..." since you don't know how prepared he was.

You were an abuser of civil discourse in 2016. I hope you can find ways to support your candidate without putting down mine. My opinion is that Sanders was quite well-prepared for MTP's gotcha question and his speech. So I guess we just disagree. If you have a factual criticism about his ideas, I'd love to hear it.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

106. Cue the crickets... chirp! chirp!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!

[NurseJackie]

128. Oh brother! After just FOUR minutes?

106. Cue the crickets... chirp! chirp!

Oh brother! A silly taunting post like that after just FOUR minutes? GMAFB!

As they say... patience is a virtue. Now, I know that people are eager to read my responses... and I appreciate how difficult it must be for all my fans... but I do need my beauty-sleep. Goodnight!

[ehrnst]

135. Some people need victories so they try to take them any where they can.

No matter how sad.

[NurseJackie]

124. It's already painfully obvious to any impartial observer how UN-prepared he was.

since you don't know how prepared he was.

It's already painfully obvious to any impartial observer how UN-prepared he was.

You forgot to say "In my opinion..."

No I didn't.

I hope you can find ways to support your candidate without putting down mine.

I hope your candidate can find ways to express himself without "putting down" the Democratic party and diminishing it and smearing it with lies about the party and its leadership being "corrupt" or "ideologically bankrupt" or that it's the "party of the one percent" or the "party of the elite" and that there's "no difference between the GOP and the Democratic party".

Fact of the matter is that none of those things are true and anyone who says such things only drives away voters (or potential voters and supporters) from the party and our candidates. It created distrust and apathy. Apathy leads to fewer votes and fewer votes only makes it easier for the GOP (and the Russians) to steal elections.

What good purpose does that serve?

Sanders was quite well-prepared for MTP's gotcha question and his speech.

Gotcha question? OMG, seriously? That's the defense?

That wasn't a "gotcha" question. It was a current events question! Even if it wasn't a subject that wasn't ALREADY in the news, that's the kind of question that anyone who hopes to be the Democratic nominee should be prepared to respond to. No candidate should stammer and stumble on that.

If you have a factual criticism about his ideas, I'd love to hear it.

Clearly not.

[ehrnst]

125. +1000. (nt)

[George II]

146. Even to the casual observer, the fact that he was unable to answer a question regarding.....

....one of the most controversial issues over the last four decades is an indication as to the level of preparedness he was.

[aikoaiko]

2. I don't know, but pundits like to push this narrative.

[RazBerryBeret]

3. No Question...

inside this forum the answer is yes.

[Moostache]

4. Yea! The horse-race stories and angle are afoot and its still 18 months out!

That was utterly predictable...got column inches and hours of TV punditry, let's not bother with highlighting differences of substance or policy, instead, let's start pondering if Sanders needs to coax or whip to make the turn...

[SouthernProgressive]

5. Not in Vermont. NT

[George II]

30. Isn't cheese one of the major products of Vermont?

[zentrum]

45. Wow.

Wonder why I have the feeling that if I posted such an image about any other candidate I'd be alerted?

[SidDithers]

60. What makes you think that wasn't alerted...

Almost every jury that I've been on lately has been for a post critical of Bernie.

Sid

[zentrum]

83. Same here.

But the post is still there so I think it was not alerted. But I'm not sure how the system works.

[Blue_true]

89. The current jury system is better in several ways.

One thing that I like is the current system doesn't put the ID of the posters in information to jurors. The current system also provides a stream of conversation that led up to the alert, this is helpful in cases where a violation is not clear. The current system does not give results for the full jury deliberation, as far as I have discerned, I only know how I voted. I never look for posts that were alerted on, and find out the result only if I come across the post and recognize it from the jury deliberation, that also tells me that it was not hidden.

Like I pointed out, I like the current system more, except for one feature.

[zentrum]

93. Yes. This system

......keeps the juror's vote clean.

[SouthernProgressive]

70. Mainly white American.

Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.

[Blue_true]

90. Vermont cheese makers make other flavors.

The state's sharp cheddar is some of the best available. I think that it may also be well regarded for Colby.

[SouthernProgressive]

97. I had some Vermont cheddar once.

25$ Per ounce. One of the best pieces of cheese I have ever had. At that price point I think we can call it white cheddar.

[Blue_true]

98. I am no expert on cheese, not infinitely, remotely close.

I do know that I have seen the state's cheeses in markets and read up on it, good variety that is well regarded.

But I defer to your terminology, you seem to know more about cheese.

[Gothmog]

132. Moldy cheese?

[Gothmog]

6. Good editorial-the party is far too moderate for sanders to get the nomination

[Tiggeroshii]

13. The party is what we make it.

Since the introduction and influence of Talib, AOC and Illhan Omar, the party has began taking a sharp turn towards the European center, away from where they are now -solidly in the European Right Wing. With Bernie, they will be solidly in the European center. Only time will tell, though.

[Gothmog]

16. Those candidates won in very blue districts

If you look at many of the 40 seats that we picked up, the candidates were far more moderate and middle of the road. For example we picked up two seats in Texas and neither Lizzie Fletcher nor Colin Allred are in the far progressive wing.

I want to win in 2020 and to me it is clear that sanders is not in step with the bulk of the party

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[Tiggeroshii]

17. Agreed. They replaced staunch moderates nonetheless.

If all solidly blue districts had people like them, the party would be solidly where Bernie is. That is obviously not the case yet though.

[Gothmog]

55. I am glad that the polling shows that the party as a whole is moderate

It is people like Sharice Davids, Lizzie Fletcher and Colin Alred who represent the future of the party and not extreme progressives who can only run in safe blue districts

[Gothmog]

62. Washington Post-Analysis: How the Democrats' shift to the left indirectly aids Joe Biden

Link to tweet

Former vice president Joe Biden is embracing his role as the leading moderate in the 2020 Democratic presidential primary field. He has at times adopted an almost curmudgeonly tone about his opponents’ embrace of more progressive policies, preferring a nostalgia for the way things were back in the good old days of, say, 2015.

It’s an approach that, at first, seems at odds with where the party is going. We’ve noted previously that Democrats are increasingly likely to identify themselves as liberals, a trend that probably helps explain why so many of the 2020 candidates have embraced progressive positions — and why more progressive candidates have entered the race.

Polling, though, suggests that this may not be a foolproof strategy. For one thing, a crowd of more progressive candidates (an admittedly nebulous designation) will compete for the same voters, freeing Biden to vacuum up support from moderates. But polling also shows that Democrats overall aren’t necessarily prioritizing a candidate who espouses progressive policies. The data below are from a recent CNN-SSRS poll: More Democrats think it’s important for a nominee to work with Republicans than to support liberal policies.


.....

[Nitram]

20. It looks to me like "the European Center" is rapidly moving to the right.

[Tiggeroshii]

24. Hope not!

So far, it is still where it's at for the most part, and if Austria is any indication, tat move could be very short lived. The fact Germany's conservative government is still to the left of the Democratic party here, kind of makes my case for me. That being said, that could also change quickly.

[Nitram]

27. Right wing parties have recently gained votes and seats in many European countries.

The anti-immigration movement has been a big recruiter for the European right.

[Tiggeroshii]

28. I know this.

But the center still hasn't change much. And if Austria is any indication, this shift can be very short lived.

[George II]

31. Unfortunately those three have had more of a negative "influence" on mainstream Democrats.....

....than a positive influence.

[Tiggeroshii]

34. Positive or negative, they have moved the party leftwards.

[George II]

35. No they haven't.

[Thekaspervote]

43. Bernie likes to think that decades old dem policy is something he did... no it isn't

[Tiggeroshii]

49. Yes they have.

The green new deal would be extreme at any other time. It is now adopted by most candidates. Some form of Medicare accessibility is now on a platform of every candidate, and free public college education is now being pushed by many Democrats. Their regular media attention and outspokenness has forced the party to focus on issues like Medicare for all, that wouldn't otherwise be discussed.

[Nuggets]

59. The green new deal is just a list if the same goals

Dems have been fighting for decades. Why AOC can’t work with Dems and existing climate change committee is telling especially after she accused Pelosi of not making a top priority.

Medicare for All was initiated by Anthony Weiner 10 years ago.
Even Al Gore had a buy into medicare idea and decreased the age to 55 , if I remember right.

Free college has been pursued by Democrats at the state level all over the country. Plus other programs that help relieve debt as none of this will happen instantly and if it did would crash the economy.

The regular media attention with zero vetting is worthless.

[George II]

130. The "green new deal" hasn't been written, much less passed. It's just a resolution....

.....that hasn't been introduced on the floor of the House yet. The concept of addressing climate change is not "now" adopted by most candidates, it was adopted by many candidates years if not decades ago. Remember Al Gore? Joe Biden began pushing for climate change legislation back in 1987, that's more than 30 years ago.

Some form of Medicare accessibility has been a fact since 1965, 54 years ago when Lyndon Johnson signed Medicare into law, and "some form" of universal healthcare coverage has been a concept since John Dingell Sr. first introduced in in the early 1940s, 75+ years ago and reintroduced just about every year since by John Dingell Jr. and later Jr's wife Debbie.

Free public college was a reality in many states or municipalities many years ago. When I entered college in 1966, if I hadn't won a full academic scholarship from a private college I would have gone to City College, part of CCNY, with zero tuition. The same was the case for SUNY. This has changed over the years, but the idea of free tuition for public college is decades old.

Unfortunately some are attributing many things that have been policy or fact for decades to some current legislators as "revolutionary ideas". That's simply is not true.

[zentrum]

41. Absolutely true.

First they mocked him, then four years later they have adopted a lot of his ideas.

But also, I do think Warren explains progressive policies better.

[NYMinute]

38. You're right

Bernie will win in a landslide if he ran for president of the Bronx.

[qazplm135]

56. the addition of three people

is not a sharp anything.

[Tiggeroshii]

58. Their voices, however, are.

[qazplm135]

68. no, not really

the revolution isn't starting. Change will happen as it always does, over a long time, with hard work by a lot of folks behind the scenes.

[Tiggeroshii]

99. The revolution started the day FDR introduced the 2nd bill of rights

We are continuing it. And yes, whether you like it or not, as a strong Democrat, you too will be a part of it

[qazplm135]

113. this whole attempt

to tie yourselves to FDR is a little weird given that FDR was a pretty mainstream Democrat.

[Tiggeroshii]

115. Not even true

Last edited Tue May 21, 2019, 02:17 AM - Edit history (1)

His second vice president was an ardent and self declared socialist (not a democratic socialist) and the second bill of rights is still far to the left of anything a mainstream democrat would ever propose. A constitutional right to housing, food and jobs is still far to the left of anything we've seen and we have to keep pushing it. That is what Bernie is doing whether you like it or not.

[qazplm135]

123. Lol

FDR responded to calls that he was a socialist...he sure as heck didn't say...yep you got me.

Truman proposed national health care reform, he wasn't a socialist either.

All you are trying to do is co-opt FDR to grant legitimacy.

[Tiggeroshii]

134. LOL. His second vice president was not Truman. Hello?

He was his third. His second vice president was a devout socialist, named Henry Wallace. FDR did not have to say he was socialist (and was not) to propose policies that directly contradicted the base of his party, and was starkly to the left of it. Do you honestly think that FDR's proposal to make having a home, food, a job and health care as a constitutional right would not be to the left of our party or his party at the time?

FDR's first VP, John Nance, was far more indicative of the democratic base at the time. He opposed FDR's decision to try and stack the supreme court, proposed funding less social programs to balance the budget and vocally called to use military force to break up the flint sit down strike at GM.

BTW Truman was chosen as a compromise VP after Wallace made controversial statements. The party wanted a centrist replacement, so FDR gave them one.

[qazplm135]

138. First of all I wasn't referencing Truman

As the socialist VP, I was referencing him for his policies.

Second, yeah I think considering much if his bill if rights later became legislation that survives to this day and is lauded by all Dems and was passed by Dem legislatures in the 30s 40s 50s and 60s and beyond means he's not a socialist or radical. His party was pretty well behind him on most of his proposals.

He's revered by the party today, which is why you are trying to co-opt him. You wouldn't bother if he was some far fringe politician. It's precisely because he is mainstream that you and others try it...to make your policies appear mainstream.

[Tiggeroshii]

139. You made clear you thought I was calling Truman socialist as you made a point to point out he wasn't

FDR created his party because he was radical, not despite it. Folks like JFK were against the new deal and second bill of rights, and even Johnson thought it went too far. Eleanor Roosevelt had very public bouts with folks like JFK over his disapproval of those policies. What was pushed was the "incremental change" and not the rights FDR envisioned.The party has constantly fought against creating a living wage as Bernie calls for, taking serious steps for global warming, as Bernie calls for, making public college free, as Bernie calls for, and creating medicare for all, as Bernie calls for. Because the party broke with FDR when he died in favor of the moderate incremental change folks.

[qazplm135]

141. JFK

was a centrist who would have been comfortable in the Republican party in the 80s and 90s.
Johnson was definitely a centrist as well (but not someone who would have been as comfortable as JFK).

Yeah, you are doing just what I said, trying to make Bernie the next FDR.

Well, spoiler alert, it clearly ain't selling.

[Tiggeroshii]

143. That seems like a contradiction of your last post, but centrists are not the future of the party.

As the center will keep moving to the right, as it has been since FDR. Regardless of who is nominated, the party is moving left, and will continue to do so for a while.

[lapucelle]

96. The Democratic Party is akin to the "European right"?

In Europe, right-wing populism is an expression used to describe groups, politicians and political parties generally known for their opposition to immigration, mostly from the Islamic world and in most cases Euroscepticism.

Right-wing populism in the Western world is generally—though not exclusively—associated with ideologies such as neo-nationalism, anti-globalization, nativism, protectionism and opposition to immigration. Anti-Muslim ideas and sentiments serve as the "great unifiers" among right-wing political formations throughout the United States and Europe.

Traditional right-wing views such as opposition to an increasing support for the welfare state and a "more lavish, but also more restrictive, domestic social spending" scheme is also described under right-wing populism and is sometimes called "welfare chauvinism".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_populism

[George II]

46. The so-called "Sanders Wing" (a misnomer at that) of the Democratic Party represents....

....no more than 10-15% of the Party, if even that.

[Tiggeroshii]

100. That's significant.

Considering it was less before 2016. But the Sanders/ Warren wing of the party represents more.

[comradebillyboy]

131. When did Warren become Bernie's disciple?

[George II]

147. Those that comprise the "Sanders wing" of the Democratic Party were there before 2016.....

....they just didn't have that tag.

[ehrnst]

126. +1000. (nt)

[Scurrilous]

8. K&R

[DavidDvorkin]

9. A loooong time ago.

[comradebillyboy]

10. His 'Meet the Press' interview yesterday was embarassing.

He has nothing to offer but class warfare and is uninterested in anything else.

[Maru Kitteh]

118. And Dem bashing. You forgot the incessant Dem bashing.

That's the other consistent thing he offers.

[GoneOffShore]

11. Bernie Sanders is the middle of the road Jeremy Corbyn of US politicians.

With just as much baggage.

[beastie boy]

12. Don't underestimate Bernie.

He can still lose an election for the Democrats.

[Fresh_Start]

37. +1 nt

nt

[Blue_true]

91. I am concerned about him becoming more bitter as he falls behind.

I think that we are seeing some troubling early signs of that.

[Hav]

14. He could very well be

and I don't think his perceived radicalism/extremism, to use the tone of the excerpts, is the only or major reason. 2016 left some wounds that people won't forget in 4 years. There are more alternatives that have in part similar ideology/plans coupled with former supporters who don't like how the general election turned out and who have moved on from him. It's also natural that what was hip and in in 2016, just isn't exciting anymore.
The field now is great and filled with some brilliant candidates. Guys like Pete and Beto have at some time made their mark or continue to do so and I'm waiting for Harris to get even better poll results.
If 2016 was the ceiling, then these are just some of the reasons why he cannot reach that level now and why I think it won't get better for him.

[Blue_true]

94. Some people that voted for Bernie is 2016 don't like how he led into

the party convention when it was clear Hillary was the nominee, nor do they care for the lukewarm support that he provided Hillary in the General. I think those things more than anything else is hurting him now. I think that if he had busted his ass for Hillary in the General and she had still lost, Bernie would be far and away the top choice for the nomination in 2020. As things are, for better or worse, Hillary supporters have not forgotten and many former Bernie supporters have moved on.

My guess of what happens? If Senator Bernie Sanders continues to lose ground, all but his most hardcore supporters are likely to switch to Senator Warren as the best choice against the more moderate segments of the party. But Senator Warren is a classical democrat who is going to support the nominee strongly if she does not win the nomination.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

144. I'm one of them. I'm totally over Bernie.

[Honeycombe8]

15. Biden endorsed Heitkamp in the mid-terms. So she's returning the favor.

This is just one long ad for Biden. Not even a pretense of being objective or neutral. Which is fine. But read it as an endorsement speech for Biden, not an objective discussion about the election or candidates.

[yaesu]

18. I don't know if he has but I do know I have. nt

[LiberalLovinLug]

19. Such an obvious hit piece by a Biden fan

Last edited Tue May 21, 2019, 04:23 AM - Edit history (1)

he remains shockingly unprepared

praising Fidel Castro

honeymooning in what was then the U.S.S.R. (it was on verge of its dissolution, but Sanders was delighted with what he saw)

Sanders in both foreign and domestic policy manages to be both ordinary (e.g., many candidates support the Green New Deal) and off-putting in his rigidity.

Sanders’s message would be a hard sell

nowhere near as extreme as Sanders


Even his appearance is fair game;

standing next to Sanders on the debate stage, Biden may look a whole lot younger

She has the gall to use the age card with Biden being the answer?


lol

It could easily have been written by one or two I read in here every day. There is absolutely no substance in that article other than smearing one of the other candidates.

[George II]

33. "Fangirl"? Really???? She's 56 years old.

That notwithstanding, anything she said incorrect?

[LiberalLovinLug]

51. Yes "fangirl" It was so one-sided, over the top, and disengenuous that the word fits

he remains shockingly unprepared

Says her. Because he didn't immediately answer on the spot if he'd move the embassy in Israel back out of Jerusalem? An obvious gotcha question to a Senator that is of Jewish decent, but also is a social liberal who supports Palestinian independence. Is this the first time you've seen a politician deflect or pivot away from a difficult question? He didn't say no, he didn't say yes either.

praising Fidel Castro

He said, years ago...

“I remember being very excited when Fidel Castro made the revolution in Cuba,” Sanders, who is now a 2020 presidential candidate, said. “I remember reading that it seemed right and appropriate that poor people were rising up against rather ugly rich people.”

Is that wrong to feel that? When the poor and indigenous peoples of Cuba, and also El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, rise up against brutal dictators. To have an initial response that "it seemed right"? Also, how far back do you want to go with any candidate? I could throw back to you in regards to Biden the Clarence Thomas hearings, the opposition to marriage equality, support for the TPP, even charges of inappropriate behaviour with women, which was ok because it was "in another era".

The other descriptive words like "ordinary" "off-putting" "a hard sell", and the tried and true "extreme" (for advocating a platform that would be normal in every other western democracy) are simply subjective opinion. IMO an extreme, off-putting opinion.

[qazplm135]

57. does it seem right?

No. it doesn't.

He didn't make that statement in real time, he made it long after, when he had the information to know that Fidel wasn't any better than the "ugly rich people" he rose up against.

[Thekaspervote]

44. Uhhh ...there's a lot of substance to her words. And a lot of facts to back it up.

https://www.thepeoplesview.net/main/2019/2/10/7k3dyoonuniyqdaieidq9bgc3anmhl

This circulated on the DU just a few days ago.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

107. You summed it up pretty well... it's getting tiresome, but, take comfort...

the greater the Bernie bashing, obviously, the greater they fear that Bernie is gong to win the primary... otherwise, they would ignore him, seeing how he sposedly has "no chance."


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!

[LiberalLovinLug]

121. Yup, cheers

[NYMinute]

127. ...

[LibFarmer]

108. Calling a mature woman "girl" is sexist ... please delete that word nt

[LiberalLovinLug]

120. Okay I took off the "girl"

It was meant as a term on its own. If it were a man I would have said "fanboy" or "fanboi". The definition of which is "anyone devoted to a particular technology or tech company. The word is a slightly altered form of the idiomatic "fanboy," which is generally used for anyone who is a dedicated fan of anything"....including a candidate.

The over-the-top slant of her article made me elevate her status from "supporter" to "fanboi" as defined by Techopedia. Maybe I should have just stuck with that. I was only altering to fit the gender. But I can understand not using the word "girl" in conjunction with grown women I'll respect that.

[NNadir]

21. One hopes so. Of course I wouldn't have bought him...

...when he was fresh, so my opinion doesn't matter.

[oasis]

22. It's fast approaching.

[SidDithers]

23. Yes...nt

Sid

[dchill]

26. As Pee Wee Herman says...

"I know you are but what am I !"

[LakeArenal]

29. Timing is everything.

[DallasNE]

32. The Sell-By Date Doesn't Apply To Just Sanders

And it is one of the things I will be looking at as the campaign unfolds. Many of the candidates will have similar policy positions so this will help me sort out the candidates. But even if we end up with a nominee that is past the sell-by date I will be voting for them in November.

[NYMinute]

36. Not just sell by

It is way past the "dangerous if consumed after" date.

[zentrum]

39. MSM loves

...to call FDR Democrats extreme. Loves to say the platform that Sanders, Warren and others promote (universal health care, student loan forgiveness, minimum wage, financial regulation etc.) is extreme.

What's really extreme is the income disparity in America. And the coming climate armageddon.

Good God.

[Hortensis]

40. :) Yup. I'm thinking for fallaways among the normal Democrats

he once appealed to it's not just his sell-by date but also that word's getting around that he spoiled a lot more than their Cheerios.

Same for his true believers. Less about a sell-by date and more about unwelcome realization that their leader's a loser. They've been waiting 2 years for a new one to rally around, but none has shown up.

[Doitnow]

47. Why is it that every day there has to be a nasty, negative post about

Senator Bernie Sanders? No one else in the race is suffering such criticism. Keep it up and, for sure, you'll have people NOT voting for whoever is nominated. Is that what you want?

[emmaverybo]

88. Simply not true in the case of Biden. A recent Daily Beast Op-Ed claimed he "railroaded Anita Hill,"

without mentioning any context or specifics from the hearing; he has been accused of being responsible for mass incarceration; Linda Flores said he mocked CONSENT;
and daily, folks at DU disqualify him out of hand for being too old, passé, not angry enough, making a paid speech thanking a Republican for his support for cancer research, not endorsing Medicare4All, and a host of other not-progressive-at-all sins, summed up in the dismissive argument that Biden is the past and every one but Biden in top tier polling is the present and the future.
I will play no violins for Bernie. He has chosen a strategy which appeals to his base and draws criticism from those who are “off the bus.”
It’s his bus. I trust that as an experienced politician he knows how to drive it and has decided the route.

[Doitnow]

92. However, Biden seems to get a pass for his "sins" and

Bernie gets disqualified for his. No columns go on and on daily against Biden like they do against Bernie.

[Tipperary]

133. You would not vote against rump?

Just because your fee-fees might have been hurt on a discussion board?

Noted.

[kimbutgar]

48. Yes go back to the Senate, Bernie and do your job the people of Vermont elected you to do!

[melman]

50. Jennifer Rubin

[Kurt V.]

52. so he's extreme then she goes on to say ideological rigidity he could win. It's easy to see she

is not capable of thinking like a democrat. Rigidity is their bag.

[True Dough]

53. Sanders past his sell-by date?

[Grasswire2]

54. who cares? Pushing the party to the left is a service even if he's not viable ultimately.

The national conversation has changed by virtue of Bernie's 2016 candidacy and his continued stumping for progressive values and policies. The energizer bunny for the populist wing. Good for him.

[honest.abe]

63. In the process of "pushing" he is also damaging the party and helping the Republicans.

No thank you.

[Grasswire2]

64. Sez you.

I don't see that. But I'm not paying a lot of attention to him. Some people are hyper-focused on Bernie.

[beastie boy]

65. Sez 12% of Bernie supporters who voted for Trump in '16.

[Grasswire2]

67. this again.....a canard.

According to NPR's investigation and polling:
.
The Bernie primary voters who voted for Trump in the GE were mostly NOT DEMOCRATS PREVIOUSLY.

They were spoilers who had supported Bernie in the primary. And then they voted for Trump in the GE because they had always been aligned with his policies.

AND race was a factor in their decisions. They were not Dems voting for Trump even though they had voted in the Dem primary.

I've posted the data here before.

[beastie boy]

72. No need to prove my point.

I didn't say Bernie supporters were Democrats. Obviously they weren't, and I suspect still aren't. And whether they were left wing spoilers or right wing spoilers, is irrelevant. Bernie's entire primary campaign was about attracting "not Democrats". It was his signature claim. By running as a Democrat, Bernie used the "not Democrats" to gain undeserved clout in the Democratic primary and undermine the Democratic Party. Even in this thread, some Bernie supporters make veiled threats of withdrawing their support from the Democratic nominee, regardless of how it might affect Trump's chances of remaining in office, because I am not being nice to Bernie.

You are making the same point I am. Bernie's popularity was inflated to begin with and resulted in contested and contentious primaries. Guess whose hands it played into?.. Were Bernie not so self-centered, he would have dropped out of the primaries long before he did, something the Democrats urged him to do. He didn't, and 12% of his non-Democratic supporters skewed the primaries and then voted for Trump.

[honest.abe]

66. Sez anybody who isn't biased.

[Cha]

79. Sez a lot of People.. and

yeah we don't want him to be our candidate.

[LibFarmer]

109. Sez anyone who is not a BS devotee nt

[Cha]

78. Exactly!

[Gothmog]

71. Washington Post-Analysis: How the Democrats' shift to the left indirectly aids Joe Biden

sanders is not moving the party left in the real world

Link to tweet

Former vice president Joe Biden is embracing his role as the leading moderate in the 2020 Democratic presidential primary field. He has at times adopted an almost curmudgeonly tone about his opponents’ embrace of more progressive policies, preferring a nostalgia for the way things were back in the good old days of, say, 2015.

It’s an approach that, at first, seems at odds with where the party is going. We’ve noted previously that Democrats are increasingly likely to identify themselves as liberals, a trend that probably helps explain why so many of the 2020 candidates have embraced progressive positions — and why more progressive candidates have entered the race.

Polling, though, suggests that this may not be a foolproof strategy. For one thing, a crowd of more progressive candidates (an admittedly nebulous designation) will compete for the same voters, freeing Biden to vacuum up support from moderates. But polling also shows that Democrats overall aren’t necessarily prioritizing a candidate who espouses progressive policies. The data below are from a recent CNN-SSRS poll: More Democrats think it’s important for a nominee to work with Republicans than to support liberal policies.


.....

[Demsrule86]

112. The party is not left...midterms showed that.

I wish it were true, but we live in a center left country at best....look at the Senate and the states in terms of party. The only way we ever win is with a big tent approach

[ecstatic]

61. What was the sell by date?

When was he at his best? I look at his 40+ year record and just don't see it. He has great, extremely ambitious ideas but the problem is, he hasn't put any thought into how to implement those ideas. Ideas alone don't make you a good president. By contrast, look at someone like Mayor Pete B. Pete also has "radical," ambitious ideas--such as abolishing the electoral college and adding justices to the supreme court, except Pete has actually put thought into how things can get done. It's not just an empty campaign slogan for him. Not only that, Pete can articulately make the case for his ideas and bring more Americans to his point of view. Sanders can't do that. His temperament is not suited for the presidency--he can't handle being challenged or asked detailed questions.

[LibFarmer]

110. 1962? nt

[Cha]

69. BS is too divisive.. goes on MTP

to bash our Democratic party just yesterday with old and stale buzzword "establishment".

[R B Garr]

74. +++++++

Spouting “establishment” seems very calculated and not genuine. Looks like people are paying attention to that now.

Cha

[Cha]

75. Telling The Democratic Party..

that "..Millions are sick and tired.." of us..

You're talking about the BLUEWAVE Democratic Victory in the House, BS.. Millions WANTED US.. Voter Turnout was Higher than in 50 years!. Please Stop IT.



He did the same divisiveness in 2011 when he said.. "..millions were disappointed in President Obama.."

Well.. haha.. More Millions Were NOT "disappointed", BS.

RB

[betsuni]

73. The package was empty anyway.

[Cha]

77. ..

We need a smirk smilie.

[NurseJackie]

129. ...

[guillaumeb]

76. What is called "reasonable" varies.

The ACA was presented as a reasonable compromise, in hope of attracting GOP support.

[JI7]

80. Sanders has been in Congress many years, why hasn't he passed something better

in all that time.

Obama actually got something done and it was the issue which midterm candidates ran on and helped to win the house last year

[guillaumeb]

81. Sanders cannot pass anything.

It takes the 2 chambers of Congress.

The ACA, with its flaws, was seen as a compromise. And we know how the GOP handled the issue.

And yes, the voters do recognize that the GOP has no interest in fixing what is wrong with healthcare in the US.

[JI7]

82. isn't Sanders a member of one of those chambers ? Obama was able to pass something

[guillaumeb]

84. Yes, something. eom

[JI7]

86. something that actually improved things from before

Sanders passed nothing

[guillaumeb]

87. It did improve some things.

And it kept other things that are somewhat unique to the US.

Like allowing the health industry to control the market.

[brooklynite]

104. Much better to have insisted on Sanders' version and passed nothing I guess?

[LibFarmer]

111. He did name two post offices. nt

[Doitnow]

95. Exactly. Have you noticed they don't post new polls until there is one that

shows Biden ahead. It's been 6 days now since a new poll is listed on Real Clear Politics.

[Cha]

114. Oh do tell.. that poster didn't know

what he was talking about.

[democratisphere]

101. Must be.

Even the food pantry took a pass.

[Downtown Hound]

102. Yes.

His time has come and gone. He's better off in congress anyways.

[brush]

103. Apparently so. Without Hillary to vilify and his Dem establishment...

bashing grown old, he's about ready for the fork to be stuck in.

It's not unexpected IMO with all the other attractive candidates to take poll share. And then there's Biden who shunted him to the side with what seems like little effort.

[BootinUp]

116. That's a mean title.

But I do think he’s going to be out of competition relatively early.

[GeniusJoy]

119. Yes but he won't get out of the race.

I think he will say he is staying in for a convention fight or to move the party left. I think we as democrats have to prepare for that from now.

[rusty quoin]

117. Yeah, he's past that date. It is obvious here.

But his policies will live again because of younger people. Bernie is old, but he is not rust. That comes more from middle aged Democrats.

[MyNameGoesHere]

122. Expired March 2016

But unfortunately still being carried on shelves. The recall system isn't what it used to be.

[Eric J in MN]

136. Joe Biden's vote for the Iraq War Resolution

...wasn’t “reasonable and informed.”

Bernie Sanders voted against the Iraq War Resolution.

[George Eliot]

137. Odd, isn't it, to compare a candidate's experience to groceries?

I guess that's the substance of our debates these days.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

142. What do you expect from Jennifer Rubin of the Wapo's "Right Turn" column?

[Hekate]

140. Nicely put

[NurseJackie]

145. I don't know. Did they even HAVE "sell-by" dates that long ago?

[Gothmog]

148. This is interesting

Link to tweet