Symone Sanders hits back at Shaun King on twitter

[George II]

He tried to make an ill-conceived point, and Ms. Sanders put him in his place:

Link to tweet

[Iliyah]

1. Well I'm going to have to check SDS out!

[aikoaiko]

2. Well, she did defend it by calling the crime bill an "over-correction for a very real problem"

Apparently, it was good to incentivize the states convicting more people, just not so many.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2019/05/18/joe-biden-crime-bill-symone-sanders-victor-blackwell-newsroom-vpx.cnn

I think Joe should keep blaming the states for mass incarceration -- that's a winning strategy. Please proceed, Mr. Vice President.

[MH1]

20. I'm not black, but I listen to the "black" radio station a lot, and I think a lot of non-blacks miss

an important aspect of this question.

There are real families in low-income neighborhoods that get harmed badly by crime. A lot of THOSE people are black, AND want the perpetrators of violence in their community LOCKED UP. For a decent length of time. Not out again quickly to terrorize their neighborhoods again.

What I get from the black folks I know, is that they want the police to arrest and lock up the criminals - and not just harass anyone who happens to be black. They want more police officers who look like them and come from their community. They want the people to go to jail who belong in jail. (for a change) They want the abuses to end - the actual abuses.

What they DON'T want, is the police to go away completely, or the jails to be opened and let everyone walk free.

It takes a lot of privilege to think there is no need for strong sentences and enforcement for some crimes.

I don't think you'll get (voting) black folks to turn away from Biden en masse because he helped criminals get locked up longer. For other abuses in the system, if they are tied to him, yes, if bad enough and directly supported by him, perhaps. But not just the idea that some crimes should be enforced more strongly.

Of course, I only hear from part of the spectrum of black opinion, and I might be wrong. We'll see how the voting goes.

[aikoaiko]

22. As far as I am concerned, all the candidates have weak spots.

And we'll all be forgiving or overlooking something in our preferred candidates.

[MaryMagdaline]

40. Very true. And there was strong inner city support for cops on the streets

In the 80s and 90s. There were even suggestions that white people did not care if black people were plagued by crime. Crime-free neighborhoods are a human right. What became clear after a decade or so was that young black men were doing ridiculous sentences for non-violent crimes, and were continually harassed and shot by the very police who were there to protect their neighborhoods.

Crime is a complex issue. Law and order builds stable societies. We have to keep pushing for the right balance. Demonization of our candidates who tried to do the right thing is not the answer.

[Kahuna7]

46. My Testimony...

There are real families in low-income neighborhoods that get harmed badly by crime. A lot of THOSE people are black, AND want the perpetrators of violence in their community LOCKED UP. For a decent length of time. Not out again quickly to terrorize their neighborhoods again.

It's really easy for people who are fortunate enough to live in communities where they live in peace and don't have to fear for their safety every time they leave their home to crow about mass incarceration. It's not like that for everybody. It was from my community that the community leaders beseeched the Clinton Admin to address the crime epidemic.

I'm from Newark, NJ in Essex County, NJ. Unfortunately, there still is a lot of vicious, and deadly gang activity throughout the city and neighboring towns. It got so bad, a day didn't go by without murders or violent robberies and car jackings. And truthfully, it's still dangerous out there. Often the victims are working people and children. I have not an ounce of of sympathy for those who cause residents to live in fear. Lock them up. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time. Period.

I couldn't take it any more because it's still dangerous. Fours years ago I left for good. What a difference it makes to be able to leave my home and go about my business without fearing for my safety.

[Kahuna7]

47. Some people make is sound like we're PRO crime and anti punishment...

[lapucelle]

26. It's always good to know the facts before attempting to make an argument.

I wonder if the generally clueless Shaun realizes that the 1994 Crime Bill applied only to federal crimes and incarceration in federal prisons.

"In the US, federal prisons house only about 13 percent of the overall prison population."

snip================================

Incarceration had already displayed a steep rise before 1994. Federal incarceration rose after 1994, but that constituted a small part of the overall rise.

http://dailyhowler.blogspot.com/2016/03/greeting-from-babel-basic-facts-you.html

I wonder if Shaun has ever looked at the data. Charts are easy to understand!



https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2016/02/get-your-memes-right-1994-crime-bill-didnt-create-mass-incarceration/

The 1994 Crime Bill does frequently cause confusion. Even one of the candidates was confused! He claimed that he voted for the bill because of an assault weapons ban that wasn't even in the final version!

Symone knows the history of that episode. My money is on her.

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/feb/28/bernie-s/bernie-sanders-chuck-todd-debate-crime-bill-vote-a/

[lapucelle]

37. Joe probably has a command of the facts...

https://www.vox.com/2016/2/11/10961362/clinton-1994-crime-law

[Hortensis]

3. Sanders voted for the bill King tries to smear Biden with.

The King types depend on no one fighting back with truth, and on their intended victims just swallowing their lies instead of checking for them.

[aikoaiko]

5. Sanders said he voted for the act for the gun control and VAWA sections.

He called out, in 1994, the sections that merely made more prison cells and that we already had too many people in prison.

The record is clear about who supported and didn't support putting more people in prison.

[Drunken Irishman]

7. Did he vote for it?

[Hortensis]

8. Yes, but legislators are often unhappy with parts of bills, but

their votes on the final forms of bill enact them into law.

Biden and Sanders were in the same situation about various provisions, almost all Democrats were, but they both voted for the same final form. It's not just blatantly dishonest for the Sanders camp to pretend otherwise, but betrayal to systematically deceive those who trust them, even those determined to and appreciating all the help they can get.

And it is systematic. More people need to connect Sanders' contention that Democrats are Tweedle-Dum to the Republicans' Tweedle-Dee with Sanders' 96% voting rate with the Democratic caucus. Remembering that the other 4% also includes votes servicing his donors by voting with Republicans as needed.

[aikoaiko]

12. Maybe, but Joe get to own his crime bill.

[Drunken Irishman]

15. I wonder why the same consideration of giving Sanders a pass wasn't employed with Kerry/Hillary...

...you know, when they voted for the Iraq War. Both denounced the war - and said their votes WEREN'T for actual war but...they still voted for it. We still went to war because of that resolution. Are they blameless now? No, of course not. Funny how the narratives change.

[Hortensis]

19. Bernie apologists won't choose to remember that Hillary

explained the need to enable W to force Saddam Hussein to allow UN inspections to resume. Probably that's because the transcript almost all anti-Democratic Party sources published edited out the need to reluctantly but necessarily give the president power to to reestablish control over Hussein, who threatened to break out of the military control imposed since the First Gulf War, and that it was not be misused "to rush to war."

Here's her complete statement, the one despicably edited to prevent understanding.

https://grabien.com/story.php?id=28104

It makes emphatically, and repetitively clear, that it was not a vote for war but a vote to give W the power to prevent the situation from developing to a point that war might be required.

“Even though the resolution before the Senate is not as strong as I would like in requiring the diplomatic route first … I take the president at his word that he will try hard to pass a United Nations resolution and seek to avoid war, if possible. Because bipartisan support for this resolution makes success in the United Nations more likely and war less likely—and because a good faith effort by the United States, even if it fails, will bring more allies and legitimacy to our cause—I have concluded, after careful and serious consideration, that a vote for the resolution best serves the security of our nation. If we were to defeat this resolution or pass it with only a few Democrats, I am concerned that those who want to pretend this problem will go away with delay will oppose any United Nations resolution calling for unrestricted inspections.”

She added, “This is a difficult vote. This is probably the hardest decision I have ever had to make. Any vote that may lead to war should be hard, but I cast it with conviction. … My vote is not, however, a vote for any new doctrine of preemption or for unilateralism or for the arrogance of American power or purpose.” A vote for the resolution, she argued, “is not a vote to rush to war; it is a vote that puts awesome responsibility in the hands of our president. And we say to him: Use these powers wisely and as a last resort.”

Btw, those who voted against this bill knew that Hussein would not only continue to rebuild his war machine but also resume his mass murder of ethnic groups in the 2/3 of the nation that had been protected from him for the past decade. No simple answers.

[GeniusJoy]

18. Throw brown people under the bus

Time and time again Bernie was willing to throw brown people under the bus for his pet ideas. He did the same with voting pro minutemen at the border. I just read about that last night.

[Hortensis]

21. Umhm! Enormous dissonance between what he claims to

be and what his record shows him to be.

I don't really doubt he wants to be the person he claims he is. Who could doubt his belief in himself? But he's chosen to instead do what's required to be reelected for life to the slow, calm, rich and privileged senate and never made his vote there count more than just 1 in 100, much less reflect his mythic principles. Like this one.

After watching him all this time, in spite of what his seeming greater comfort with white men suggests, I really suspect his concern for issues special to people of any color or sex is tepid at best, though, not just brown or female. He just doesn't care and conflates all distracting problems, including racial, with the class warfare that he is able to care about -- passionately.

[mcar]

9. Didn't Biden come up with VAWA?

[Kahuna7]

48. Yes! nt

[George II]

10. Bottom line, he voted for it. Here's a recent quote of his about his votes against other bills:

“I vote against a lot of those proposals because I don’t think they’ve gone far enough.”* So now people are implying that he voted for THIS bill even though it went "too far"? Congressmen don't get "conditional" votes - they vote for bills or they vote against them. No excuses.

* https://www.sevendaysvt.com/vermont/bernie-one-note-in-second-term-sanders-stays-relentlessly-on-message/Content?oid=2243075

[BannonsLiver]

17. Theres always an attempt to parse or explain away Bernie's votes.

It seems the first instinct in almost all cases is to gaslight.

[lapucelle]

28. The assault weapons ban wasn't in the final version of the bill he voted for.

I think BS has stopped making this particular claim. Here's the transcript of the embarrassing MTP exchange with Chuck Todd.

CT: "You said you supported the House version of crime bill because it had an assault weapons ban in it. But that turned out not to be the case," Todd said. "So why did you put out a statement that was misleading?"

BS: "Woah, woah, woah," Sanders responded. "No, that’s not my understanding. My understanding is there is a ban on assault weapons in that bill."

CT: "It was not in the House bill that you voted. It was in a Senate bill, but not the House bill," Todd countered.

BS: "Hold it. To the best of my knowledge, there were two important provisions, and that is the Violence Against Women Act," Sanders said. "And my understanding is there is a ban on assault weapons."

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/feb/28/bernie-s/bernie-sanders-chuck-todd-debate-crime-bill-vote-a/

Politifact took pity, noting the confusion on the part of the fiery legislator who cast multiple votes, but was apparently unaware of what he really voted for in the end.

Still, half-truths are really not what most people want from a presidential candidate.

[comradebillyboy]

54. That really is embarassing. He has problems with unscripted questions

because he seems incapable of thinking on his feet.

[oldsoftie]

4. Shaun King is a hustler & a fraud. Why he continues to get press is a mystery.

[LibFarmer]

13. +1000 nt

[lapucelle]

29. Here in NY, a newspaper editor was fired over plagerism accusations against Shaun.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/21/business/media/daily-news-editor-fired-plagiarism-shaun-king.html

In all honesty, the controversy — a fuck up on my part, to put it bluntly — comes down to two unintentional, albeit inexcusable, instances of sloppy editing on my part and a formatting glitch that until Tuesday I had no idea was systematically stripping out large blocks of indented quotations each time I moved Shaun’s copy from an email to The News’ own Content Management System, or “CMS” as it’s called in media parlance.

https://medium.com/human-development-project/regarding-shaun-king-and-the-daily-news-e458523367ce#.uhju5fhbt

Shaun no longer writes for the NYDN.

[Cha]

35. Good.. Here's Symone taking care

of business.. Again..

Link to tweet

[sheshe2]

6. Good for SDS!

[peggysue2]

14. You go, girl!

A righteous slap to the chops.

Nicely done, Symone. Nicely done.

[Cha]

33. Here's another!..

Link to tweet

[BannonsLiver]

16. Shaun King is a clown and a stooge

And she put him in his place nicely.

[SMC22307]

23. Didn't he help identify a couple of the white supremacists who...

beat DeAndre Harris in Charlottesville? Isn't he a big #BLM guy? Some DUers are now attacking him cuz he's not marching in lock-step over Biden? God bless ya, DU!

[cwydro]

39. I've never cared for the guy.

He seems to be all about himself.

[brush]

30. Ridiculous comment. Do you know anything about him?

Sure doesn't sound like it. Him and symone can have a disagreement without him being called a clown and a stooge. He's put in much work in the BLM movement.

[oldsoftie]

38. Yes, we all know about him. He's a fraud.

he has lied about being black just to get a career. Among other lies
He attacks those who back other candidates without noting his OWN preference.
When a large number of DUers call you out, theres usually fire with the smoke.

[brush]

41. Lied about being black?

His mother has said his father was a light-skinned black man (outside of her marriage).

[BannonsLiver]

42. I know he's a clown and a stooge.

Virulently anti Hillary in 2016. That along with the Obama disrespect is enough for me to have zero respect for him. Don’t like it? I couldn’t possibly care less.

[brush]

43. A clown and a stooge is extreme. A whole lot of people were for Sanders...

and thus anti-Hillary. Are all of them clowns and stooges?

[BannonsLiver]

49. Depends on how long those feelings lingered

Democrats who opposed Obama after the 2008 primary and Hillary after she secured the nomination are not high on the list of people whose opinions I care much about. Shaun King definitely fit that bill in 2016.

[Cha]

34. Yeah, SK did good work on BLM.. but he

was always Slamming our President Obama, and he loses it when trying to cover for BS.

[Cha]

24. Yay.. thanks for bringing it here, George..

I saw some of that.. Symone took him down.

Poor Shaun King.. Oh so "genuinely embarrassed.. "..

Why Black Voters Are Gravitating to Biden

https://www.thedailybeast.com/why-black-voters-are-gravitating-to-biden

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=125633

[R B Garr]

25. Symone is going to expose them all.

She already is, it looks like. She knows their cheap shots.

[Cha]

32. Yeah, she does!

Link to tweet

Tom Watson is not a Biden supporter..

RB

[emmaverybo]

27. She's great. Biden is not defending the part of this comprehensive, multi-part bill

which clearly led to racial inequities in drug charges sentencing. In fact, he has said that harsher sentencing for crack vs. cocaine related offenses was not a good idea. However, at the time, communities affected by the crack epidemic and its attendant increase in crime demanded
action from law enforcement and the justice system.
As to mass incarceration. Biden has not tried to justify defend, or lobby for that. It is still not clear 100 percent how much the role of the bill was responsible. We were well on our way before the bill.

And states’ judicial systems, the rise of prison economies, abuses in law enforcement, how three strikes got played out—these were strong factors.

Biden can be proud of the VAWA, the billions allotted to crime prevention through community policing, drug deterrence courts, gang prevention programs; proud of the bill’s attention to hate crimes, sex offenses, civil rights crimes; proud of the section mandating strong gun control.

It is rather like the Mueller report. Everyone wants to talk about it. No one wants to read it.

Wikipedia has a good run down on the 1994 crime bill.

[Cha]

31. Frankly, I'm digging how Symone is hitting back (and good on the Biden campaign for being cool with

Link to tweet

Tom Watson is not a Biden supporter.

Mahalo, George

[Cha]

36. Symone Tweet on Hillary's Press Sec, Brian Fallon..

Link to tweet

[Gothmog]

44. Symone Sanders is a great hire by the Biden campaign

[Blue_Tires]

45. Don't forget, King is also a staff writer for The Intercept, lol

[Cha]

53. Because, of course, he

is.

[Gothmog]

50. I really like Symone Sanders

Link to tweet

[Kurt V.]

51. y'all know they're actually friends, right?

[Cha]

52. Symone taking no shite

from Shaun.