2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forum@BernieSanders: "Maybe Hillary Clinton should apologize for this?"
https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/status/685616288467648513
Punkingal
(9,522 posts)CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)He's an honest campaigner. And he's not a dirty campaigner. However, if you want to throw up some bullshit, or attempt to build a false narrative or play games--he'll give it right back to you. And he'll have the last word.
I've been more impressed with his campaign/PR skills/intelligence/strategies than I've been with any Democratic candidate who's run for major office during my lifetime.
I knew he had a sterling message, and that he is an honest politician who is running to help this country and the middle class. However, I didn't know that he had such stellar campaign skills and instincts.
That's why he's going to win.
Punkingal
(9,522 posts)Yallow
(1,926 posts)In stead of simply pushing back, Obama let them have enough rope to hang themselves, then he pulled the lever.
Over and over.
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)I remember an iconic moment where he gave his opponent enough rope but I forget when it was.
Many thanks.
hedda_foil
(16,373 posts)And he said it in response to a Benghazi gotcha remark by mittens.
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)"Please proceed" were the words.
CorporatistNation
(2,546 posts)Be Smacked Down Hardas she has now come out swinging but with only one club in the proverbial bag her reach is decidedly limited. Bernie is so stoked with ammo to rightfully expose Hillary that as she started it, she should now be getting ready for her bell to be rung. Bad move Hillary, but Bernie has pulled her out into the street... Let the "Smackdown" begin!
stone space
(6,498 posts)Might make more sense for him to focus what he can do today than revisiting history on the issue.
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)Sure, let's hold manufacturers liable for products that function correctly, and gun dealers who follow the law in selling them.
Uhm, wait, what?
stone space
(6,498 posts)JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)I do not personally hold elected office so I am unable to help you with your suggestion.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)In law, strict liability is a standard for liability which may exist in either a criminal or civil context. A rule specifying strict liability makes a person legally responsible for the damage and loss caused by his/her acts and omissions regardless of culpability (including fault in criminal law terms, typically the presence of mens rea). Under strict liability, there is no requirement to prove fault, negligence or intention. Strict liability is prominent in tort law (especially product liability), corporations law, and criminal law. For analysis of the pros and cons of strict liability as applied to product liability, the most important strict liability regime, see product liability.
. . . .
A classic example of strict liability is the owner of a tiger rehabilitation center. No matter how strong the tiger cages are, if an animal escapes and causes damage and injury, the owner is held liable. Another example is a contractor hiring a demolition subcontractor that lacks proper insurance. If the subcontractor makes a mistake, the contractor is strictly liable for any damage that occurs. A more everyday example is that of a passenger on public transport who was unable to purchase a valid ticket for the journey due to extraneous circumstances, such as being unable to purchase a ticket for whatever reason. Under strict liability it does not matter if the ticket machine was broken, or the train was early, or there were no staff at the counter. The legal responsibility for holding a valid ticket falls on the passenger and the passenger should not have travelled without one regardless of the circumstances.
In strict liability situations, although the plaintiff does not have to prove fault, the defendant can raise a defense of absence of fault, especially in cases of product liability, where the defense may argue that the defect was the result of the plaintiff's actions and not of the product, that is, no inference of defect should be drawn solely because an accident occurs.[2] If the plaintiff can prove that the defendant knew about the defect before the damages occurred, additional punitive damages can be awarded to the victim in some jurisdictions.
. . . .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strict_liability
In my view, the only way we can end the epidemic of gun violence is to work on our culture.
Californians are not allowed to smoke in certain buildings including many offices. We have had a good anti-smoking campaign, and we see many fewer smokers now. Yes. Some laws were passed. But more important, we created a culture in which smoking is discouraged in a lot of situations. That has worked much better than passing and enforcing laws.
Background checks would be enforceable, but just how they would prevent very determined people who might live in a household with a gun from getting that gun and committing serious crimes, I do not know.
I do not oppose this legislation, and it might help some, but I am very skeptical about the efficacy of legislation when we need to make basic changes to our culture.
All our superheroes use guns or other weapons. And by the age of three or four, our children have toyboxes containing little dolls of those superheroes. If we refuse to buy them toy guns, they use their fingers and fists and pretend to have weapons.
The love of guns is very deep in our society. We need to stop watching the movies and TV shows that feature so much violence. Face it. Many, many Americans love that kind of thing. The police chases, etc.
And if you are going to have that kind of violence, then you have to imagine some terrible enemy, some horrible thing or inhuman person to hate, to justify the violence and the imagined attacks on something, someone. So the "criminal" (and we do have real ones), the villains, they play an important role in the culture of violence. They are the targets. Is it any wonder that our prisons are full (in real life) and so many people, vulnerable people, angry people, commit terrible crimes with guns. Our entire culture is centered on pointing fingers at those "bad" people over there. Racism, sexism, anti-immigration, anti-Muslim, anti-Jewish, anti-this, anti-that. All the result of the need of someone to hate in order to justify the violence.
Obama's measures are great, but they don't change our very violent culture. Unfortunately.
We have to do that. Obama cannot.
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)CorporatistNation
(2,546 posts)If a victim can hold a seller of a gun liable then what would stop a victim of an idiot driver from holder a car dealer and/or manufacturer liable for misuse of a motor vehicle? ABSOLUTELY SYNONYMOUS...
stone space
(6,498 posts)leftofcool
(19,460 posts)JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Look, just because Hillary opposes Obama's anti-gun positions does not mean she supports Bernie's idea to arm everyone to the teeth.
joshcryer
(62,270 posts)Punkingal
(9,522 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)It'll be a really bad government gun too. He'll take away everyone's existing gun and then raise taxes to buy everyone a new but shitty gun.
I'm sure I heard this somewhere.
joshcryer
(62,270 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)HubertHeaver
(2,522 posts)Or twitter
Maybe Twilight Zone
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)An old Hillary campaign ad, and let the viewer make of it what they will. Well done.
SunSeeker
(51,550 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)We shall see whether they suffice to lower our murder and suicide rates. Hopefully.
underthematrix
(5,811 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)SunSeeker
(51,550 posts)I'm guessing he wasn't that bothered by it.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)Indepatriot
(1,253 posts)That woman and her people are nothing but class.....
underthematrix
(5,811 posts)and poor Bernie is not even on my radar. But #ImWithHer
George II
(67,782 posts)....8-year old trash to slam a person that PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA HIMSELF has embraced only months later and over the intervening eight years?
Punkingal
(9,522 posts)winter is coming
(11,785 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)SoapBox
(18,791 posts)Babel_17
(5,400 posts)Uncle Joe
(58,355 posts)Thanks for the thread, JonLeibowitz.