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@BernieSanders: "Maybe Hillary Clinton should apologize for this?" (Original Post) JonLeibowitz Jan 2016 OP
Gad...now I see what Howard Dean meant when he said you don't want to mess with Bernie! Punkingal Jan 2016 #1
Seriously. Bernie knows how to campaign. CoffeeCat Jan 2016 #8
I know...I am also impressed. Punkingal Jan 2016 #12
President Obama Also - "Continue" Yallow Jan 2016 #13
Do you have a link to the debate(?) where he said "continue"? JonLeibowitz Jan 2016 #17
It was during either the second or third debate with Romney in 2012. Candy Crowley moderated. hedda_foil Jan 2016 #33
Oh yes, that reminds me! It was the one with Candy Crowley! JonLeibowitz Jan 2016 #37
GREAT Candidate With A GREAT Team! Hillary Took Her Gloves Off Today... She Needs to Get Ready To CorporatistNation Jan 2016 #22
Perhaps Bernie can work to help eliminate the PLCAA. stone space Jan 2016 #2
Maybe if eliminating the PLCAA made any sense at all. JonLeibowitz Jan 2016 #3
If it makes so much sense, then expand it to include Big Tobacco. (nt) stone space Jan 2016 #6
Has such a bill been introduced? JonLeibowitz Jan 2016 #7
That's called strict liability. Unlikely something like that will apply to guns. JDPriestly Jan 2016 #25
+1. Agreed on all points. Excellent write up and thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts. JonLeibowitz Jan 2016 #32
The Entire Issue Is Senseless... As Hillary Characterizes It... CorporatistNation Jan 2016 #23
Only to the NRA. stone space Jan 2016 #29
Bernie Sanders........"Our Vermont guns are not like guns in Chicago" leftofcool Jan 2016 #4
Obama agrees with Sanders that some laws should be determined by voters of individual states. JonLeibowitz Jan 2016 #5
Hillary does not support Obama's extreme anti-gun positions jberryhill Jan 2016 #9
Satire? joshcryer Jan 2016 #10
Bernie has no such idea. What rot! Punkingal Jan 2016 #11
Yes, he wants the government to give everyone a free gun jberryhill Jan 2016 #14
You got me. joshcryer Jan 2016 #15
If you like your gun, you can keep your gun jberryhill Jan 2016 #16
HAHA! "Lie of the year" as I recall. I'm ROFL here... JonLeibowitz Jan 2016 #24
It was on the internet. HubertHeaver Jan 2016 #18
Yes, I feel like that's something I read very recently. n/t winter is coming Jan 2016 #20
I love this. SusanCalvin Jan 2016 #19
Maybe Bernie should apologize for voting against the Brady Bill 5 times. nt SunSeeker Jan 2016 #21
California has rather strict gun regulations. JDPriestly Jan 2016 #27
Oh I think that's up to people to follow the rules and regs underthematrix Jan 2016 #28
Hiw about that Clinton ad? Armstead Jan 2016 #39
Obama asked Clinton to be his Secretary of State. SunSeeker Jan 2016 #41
I'm guessing he was bothered by her campaign tactics, but he is a smart politician Armstead Jan 2016 #42
Tad and Jeff: Dumb & Dumber Starry Messenger Jan 2016 #26
HILLARY CLINTON ........... GUN NUT!!!! Indepatriot Jan 2016 #30
I love love President Obama in a way I can never feel about HRC underthematrix Jan 2016 #31
Maybe the Sanders campaign (or he, himself) should apologize for dredging up.... George II Jan 2016 #34
He doesn't have to apologize for pointing out hypocrisy. Punkingal Jan 2016 #36
Or past actions/positions of Hillary or her surrogates. n/t winter is coming Jan 2016 #43
Who made the the trash? Armstead Jan 2016 #40
Ouch. SoapBox Jan 2016 #35
Well, he didn't start the finger pointing on this (nt) Babel_17 Jan 2016 #38
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Jan 2016 #44

CoffeeCat

(24,411 posts)
8. Seriously. Bernie knows how to campaign.
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 01:02 AM
Jan 2016

He's an honest campaigner. And he's not a dirty campaigner. However, if you want to throw up some bullshit, or attempt to build a false narrative or play games--he'll give it right back to you. And he'll have the last word.

I've been more impressed with his campaign/PR skills/intelligence/strategies than I've been with any Democratic candidate who's run for major office during my lifetime.

I knew he had a sterling message, and that he is an honest politician who is running to help this country and the middle class. However, I didn't know that he had such stellar campaign skills and instincts.

That's why he's going to win.

 

Yallow

(1,926 posts)
13. President Obama Also - "Continue"
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 01:27 AM
Jan 2016

In stead of simply pushing back, Obama let them have enough rope to hang themselves, then he pulled the lever.

Over and over.

JonLeibowitz

(6,282 posts)
17. Do you have a link to the debate(?) where he said "continue"?
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 01:36 AM
Jan 2016

I remember an iconic moment where he gave his opponent enough rope but I forget when it was.

Many thanks.

hedda_foil

(16,373 posts)
33. It was during either the second or third debate with Romney in 2012. Candy Crowley moderated.
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 02:16 AM
Jan 2016

And he said it in response to a Benghazi gotcha remark by mittens.

CorporatistNation

(2,546 posts)
22. GREAT Candidate With A GREAT Team! Hillary Took Her Gloves Off Today... She Needs to Get Ready To
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 01:42 AM
Jan 2016

Be Smacked Down Hardas she has now come out swinging but with only one club in the proverbial bag her reach is decidedly limited. Bernie is so stoked with ammo to rightfully expose Hillary that as she started it, she should now be getting ready for her bell to be rung. Bad move Hillary, but Bernie has pulled her out into the street... Let the "Smackdown" begin!

 

stone space

(6,498 posts)
2. Perhaps Bernie can work to help eliminate the PLCAA.
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 12:20 AM
Jan 2016

Might make more sense for him to focus what he can do today than revisiting history on the issue.



JonLeibowitz

(6,282 posts)
3. Maybe if eliminating the PLCAA made any sense at all.
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 12:21 AM
Jan 2016

Sure, let's hold manufacturers liable for products that function correctly, and gun dealers who follow the law in selling them.

Uhm, wait, what?

JonLeibowitz

(6,282 posts)
7. Has such a bill been introduced?
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 12:30 AM
Jan 2016

I do not personally hold elected office so I am unable to help you with your suggestion.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
25. That's called strict liability. Unlikely something like that will apply to guns.
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 01:55 AM
Jan 2016
In law, strict liability is a standard for liability which may exist in either a criminal or civil context. A rule specifying strict liability makes a person legally responsible for the damage and loss caused by his/her acts and omissions regardless of culpability (including fault in criminal law terms, typically the presence of mens rea). Under strict liability, there is no requirement to prove fault, negligence or intention. Strict liability is prominent in tort law (especially product liability), corporations law, and criminal law. For analysis of the pros and cons of strict liability as applied to product liability, the most important strict liability regime, see product liability.

. . . .

A classic example of strict liability is the owner of a tiger rehabilitation center. No matter how strong the tiger cages are, if an animal escapes and causes damage and injury, the owner is held liable. Another example is a contractor hiring a demolition subcontractor that lacks proper insurance. If the subcontractor makes a mistake, the contractor is strictly liable for any damage that occurs. A more everyday example is that of a passenger on public transport who was unable to purchase a valid ticket for the journey due to extraneous circumstances, such as being unable to purchase a ticket for whatever reason. Under strict liability it does not matter if the ticket machine was broken, or the train was early, or there were no staff at the counter. The legal responsibility for holding a valid ticket falls on the passenger and the passenger should not have travelled without one regardless of the circumstances.

In strict liability situations, although the plaintiff does not have to prove fault, the defendant can raise a defense of absence of fault, especially in cases of product liability, where the defense may argue that the defect was the result of the plaintiff's actions and not of the product, that is, no inference of defect should be drawn solely because an accident occurs.[2] If the plaintiff can prove that the defendant knew about the defect before the damages occurred, additional punitive damages can be awarded to the victim in some jurisdictions.

. . . .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strict_liability

In my view, the only way we can end the epidemic of gun violence is to work on our culture.

Californians are not allowed to smoke in certain buildings including many offices. We have had a good anti-smoking campaign, and we see many fewer smokers now. Yes. Some laws were passed. But more important, we created a culture in which smoking is discouraged in a lot of situations. That has worked much better than passing and enforcing laws.

Background checks would be enforceable, but just how they would prevent very determined people who might live in a household with a gun from getting that gun and committing serious crimes, I do not know.

I do not oppose this legislation, and it might help some, but I am very skeptical about the efficacy of legislation when we need to make basic changes to our culture.

All our superheroes use guns or other weapons. And by the age of three or four, our children have toyboxes containing little dolls of those superheroes. If we refuse to buy them toy guns, they use their fingers and fists and pretend to have weapons.

The love of guns is very deep in our society. We need to stop watching the movies and TV shows that feature so much violence. Face it. Many, many Americans love that kind of thing. The police chases, etc.

And if you are going to have that kind of violence, then you have to imagine some terrible enemy, some horrible thing or inhuman person to hate, to justify the violence and the imagined attacks on something, someone. So the "criminal" (and we do have real ones), the villains, they play an important role in the culture of violence. They are the targets. Is it any wonder that our prisons are full (in real life) and so many people, vulnerable people, angry people, commit terrible crimes with guns. Our entire culture is centered on pointing fingers at those "bad" people over there. Racism, sexism, anti-immigration, anti-Muslim, anti-Jewish, anti-this, anti-that. All the result of the need of someone to hate in order to justify the violence.

Obama's measures are great, but they don't change our very violent culture. Unfortunately.

We have to do that. Obama cannot.

CorporatistNation

(2,546 posts)
23. The Entire Issue Is Senseless... As Hillary Characterizes It...
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 01:45 AM
Jan 2016

If a victim can hold a seller of a gun liable then what would stop a victim of an idiot driver from holder a car dealer and/or manufacturer liable for misuse of a motor vehicle? ABSOLUTELY SYNONYMOUS...

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
9. Hillary does not support Obama's extreme anti-gun positions
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 01:21 AM
Jan 2016

Look, just because Hillary opposes Obama's anti-gun positions does not mean she supports Bernie's idea to arm everyone to the teeth.
 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
14. Yes, he wants the government to give everyone a free gun
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 01:27 AM
Jan 2016

It'll be a really bad government gun too. He'll take away everyone's existing gun and then raise taxes to buy everyone a new but shitty gun.

I'm sure I heard this somewhere.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
27. California has rather strict gun regulations.
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 01:58 AM
Jan 2016

We shall see whether they suffice to lower our murder and suicide rates. Hopefully.

underthematrix

(5,811 posts)
31. I love love President Obama in a way I can never feel about HRC
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 02:02 AM
Jan 2016

and poor Bernie is not even on my radar. But #ImWithHer

George II

(67,782 posts)
34. Maybe the Sanders campaign (or he, himself) should apologize for dredging up....
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 02:19 AM
Jan 2016

....8-year old trash to slam a person that PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA HIMSELF has embraced only months later and over the intervening eight years?

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