2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumHillary Clinton Is Not Telling The Truth About Wall Street And it's damaging her campaign.
WASHINGTON -- Hillary Clinton's campaign spent much of this week waging a dishonest attack on Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) and his campaign's Wall Street reform platform. The risky attempt to make inroads with progressives on one of her weakest issues is damaging the credibility of some of her top lieutenants.
Clinton's attack on Sanders is as simple as it is untrue: Unlike Sanders, Clinton has argued, she is willing to take on "shadow banking" -- a broad term for various financial activities that aren't regulated as strictly as conventional lending.
Sanders has in fact proposed attacking shadow banking in two principal ways: by breaking up big financial firms that engage in shadow banking, and by severing federal financial support for shadow banking activities by reinstating Glass-Steagall.
These would be substantive changes. A lot of shadow banking takes place at firms with traditional banking charters, like JPMorgan Chase and Bank of America. Some of it takes place at specialized hedge funds, or at major investment banks like Goldman Sachs. Breaking them up would not eliminate the risk shadow banking poses to the economy, but it would limit it. Risky shadow banking activities cannot bring down institutions that are too-big-to-fail if there are no too-big-to-fail institutions.
Yet the Clinton campaign has repeatedly said Sanders is wholly ignoring shadow banking, accusing Sanders of taking a "hands-off" approach to it that would not apply to firms like Lehman Brothers and AIG. This barrage has come from Clinton's press aides, campaign CFO Gary Gensler, and Clinton surrogate Barney Frank.
MORE: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/hillary-clinton-wall-street_568ed8d6e4b0cad15e6415cd
Scuba
(53,475 posts)winter is coming
(11,785 posts)JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)Segami
(14,923 posts)CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)HILLARY CLINTON'S TOP CAMPAIGN DONOR LIST:
Credit: Center for Responsive Politics
DONOR TOTAL
Citigroup Inc $824,402
Goldman Sachs $760,740
DLA Piper $700,530
JPMorgan Chase $696,456
Morgan Stanley $636,564
EMILY's List $609,684
Time Warner $501,831
Skadden, Arps et al $469,290
University of CA $417,327
Sullivan & Cromwell $369,150
Akin, Gump et al $364,478
Lehman Brothers $362,853
21st Century Fox $340,936
Cablevision Systems $336,613
Kirkland & Ellis $329,141
Natnl Amusements $328,312
Squire Patton Boggs $328,306
Greenberg Traurig $327,890
Corning Inc $322,450
Credit Suisse Group $318,120
CorporatistNation
(2,546 posts)The more desperate they look... BECAUSE THEY ARE GETTING... VERY DESPERATE!!!
Divernan
(15,480 posts)He's a BIG DONOR, ya know!
CharlotteVale
(2,717 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Bernie & Elizabeth 2016!!!
Oilwellian
(12,647 posts)K&R
Plucketeer
(12,882 posts)Eggscellant!
Punkingal
(9,522 posts)Response to Scuba (Reply #1)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Scuba
(53,475 posts)Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)On regular basis. Hedge fund employees has a super pac running ads against Hillary because they know their game is over with Hillary's plan is better regulations. Have not seen a super pac from Wall Street running ads against Sanders
Scuba
(53,475 posts)Dawgs
(14,755 posts)It defys all logic.
kenfrequed
(7,865 posts)It is mainly just trimming around the edges of the problem and the fact is she probably won't even fight that hard for the milquetoast reforms she has recommended.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Hillary lies like a rug and people are starting to catch on to her deceptions. Why they're gravitating to the only true authentic progressive in this race... Bernie!
Bernie & Elizabeth 2016!!!
e
Just put her into office, and watch the devolution commence.
Plucketeer
(12,882 posts)because DWS and her horse have assured Wall St. that the fix is in. Consequently, they can hold off until it's just the queen against the Donald. That's when she'll need a "force field" surrounding her - when it's BSer against BSer.
Fuddnik
(8,846 posts)It's just a matter of preference for them.
questionseverything
(9,657 posts)Tennis Magnet
(38 posts)The rest of her stances I can live with. It's those four key areas that I depart with Clinton, and these are key area of concern. I'm pretty sure many agree with me on these four key areas that Bernie does better on approach to address these issues.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)Duval
(4,280 posts)comes to the bank crap, especially. Witness the DOW recently....banks continue to do their thing with the hedge funds. Apparently, the message from Hillary didn't get through to them. Sigh!
Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)It's ironic that her sincerity is called into questions when her opponent just gave a grand, and admittedly great sounding speech full of either lies or ignorance.
Bernie would be 100% the only candidate worth electing if only what he promises was possible. This is EXACTLY what I keep on about.. he makes great promises that he will NOT have the authority to make come to pass. It's either lies or ignorance.
He's right that Dodd-Frank does give that power.. to the board of governors, and requires a 2/3 vote for approval of the board of governors. This is NOT a presidential power. He can make the list, but that's as far as this tootless tiger can go, the board of governors in no form for at least the next 12 years is going to support that vote. At best he can start getting a few of the old governors replaced with better nominations, but even those have to have a Senate that will approve them. Give me that Senate roll call that will support revamping the Fed. Hint, for at least the 115th congress, it doesn't exist unless someone goes out and recruits a MESS of really progressive senators right now.
Reinstate Glass-Stegall? Again, show me a realistic hypothetical congressional roll call of any potential version of the 115th congress.. and I will give serious reconsideration of my candidate support. As president, all he has (for this particular reinstatement) is the bully pulpit, and as everyone loves to point out his strong point of being the political outsider.. that is NOT a beneficial trait for a POTUS trying to use the bully pulpit. Sorry, but that is the nakked reality.
That will change under my administration. Equal Justice Under Law will not just be words engraved on the entrance of the Supreme Court. It will be the standard that applies to Wall Street and all Americans.
Now this has me REALLY curious. I'm assuming this would be using the attorney General's office. Is there actual laws or legal precident that he could work with? This might be possible?
Another interesting one to me. Under what power, law, or authority can he achieve this, or is he going to have to depend on and work with Congress to make this happen?
The section on reforming the Federal Reserve? Again, a beautifully worded section. This part I know he can't possibly get done without full congressional cooperation, and again, there's no version of the potential 115th congress that's going to do that.
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)what he's proposing, or vote for someone who's taken money from Wall Street and is a proven liar?
I'm sticking with Bernie. We won't get regulation if we don't fight for it, and I don't for a minute believe Hillary will fight for any meaningful change. The way she's continually sidestepped reinstating Glass-Steagall is a big hint that she's not serious about comprehensive reform. If anything, she'll advocate for a few specific bandaids that the financial institutions will work around.
Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)AND you still support him for it.
Gotcha.
Last edited Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:37 PM - Edit history (1)
Bubzer
(4,211 posts)he makes great promises that he will NOT have the authority to make come to pass. It's either lies or ignorance. But you think whatever congressional makeup we end up with will treat any progressive goals hillary puts forth any differently? She's not exactly a progressive. She may call herself a dem, but she's closer to being a blue dog than an actual liberal... meaning there are plenty of conservative leaning legislations that would get passed, and almost no progressive legislations... assuming your hostile congressional makeup.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)I prefer to dream big and do the work to get there, not accept some half-ass excuse why we can't.
Duval
(4,280 posts)get his message out there and show support. We can do that many ways, and if it takes an organized, peaceful protest against these banks, we can do that, too!
jonno99
(2,620 posts)landed on the MOON - are you?
(ducks!)
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)yeah.. I'm a Bernie supporter and know we've been there.
I am also one of the first youth members of Space Camp... 1982.
Been there. Ate the freeze-dried bananas.
jonno99
(2,620 posts)Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Bernie & Elizabeth 2016!!!
shawn703
(2,702 posts)You see how well they work with Obama now. Do you seriously believe they'll work with Clinton on anything if she's president? Sanders has more of a chance of getting things accomplished than Clinton does. If you believe otherwise you reside on a different planet.
Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)President. I will agree that they likely hate her more than Senator Sanders.. for now. If he gets the nomination, that's pretty certain to change.
As has been pointed out MANY times right here on this board.. Senator Sanders is a political outsider. It's your side that's said that and what they've tried to sell people on from the beginning.
As I've told people in other threads, i'm more focused on the House and senate races, especially in the battleground states, than I am for the Presidency.
If the House or Senate remains Republican majority, neither Sanders NOR Clinton will get much progress done. I feel Clinton may actually get a few things done, because she is more willing to compromise than Sanders. She'll likely be despised for the compromise by some (much like President Obama got a lot of heartburn because he had to sacrifice single payer to get the ACA passed).
In the highly Unlikely event that the Senate and House goes back into Democrat control, I do feel we'd see some great things come out of either Clinton or Sanders. This is likely where we diverge in belief. Because there is no filibuster proof list of liberal Democrats that's even possible coming out of the 115th congress... many of these bills will still require some compromise because, as we all know too well, not ALL people in either the senate or house with a (D) by their name is liberal or progressive. That, again is where I think Clinton, being the political insider, will have an additional edge over Senator Sanders.
If we ever actually get a Progressive Democrat majority in the House, and a filibuster proof progressive Democrat majority in the Senate.. I absolutely believe either of these candidates would be INCREDIBLE successes.
randys1
(16,286 posts)isnt it scary that people so full of hate might take over the entire government?
stupidicus
(2,570 posts)but have convinced yourself that spewing nonsense about Bernies goals/objectives/etc and their achievability (something that can be applied to those of both candidates where the approval of others is involved) somehow accomplishes that?
you lost here. get over it, no?
Attacking Bernie with nonsense is not a defense of the dishonesty cited here.
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)What Clinton proposes are mere hypotheses, that have NEVER been proven.
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)I think I've got election fatigue.
So tired of the Hillary talking points, the nonsense, the lies.
Who would waste their time reading two sentences about Hillary's plan to reform Wall Street, let alone an entire screed? It's laughable.
Why do they even float this nonsense? The only people buying that snake oil are....well, no one really.
Response to CoffeeCat (Reply #52)
Amimnoch This message was self-deleted by its author.
thesquanderer
(11,990 posts)...but appreciate your well-considered concerns. A lot more thoughtful than some of the ridiculous anti-Bernie stuff that pops up.
FWIW, here's the other side:
First, the likely 115th Congress is not going to be any more amenable to even Hillary's less ambitious ideas. So really, they are both similarly disadvantaged there, even if Bernis is aiming higher.
But here is the hope, for the things that can't be done without congressional approval. It is admittedly a long shot, but it's better than no shot.
From http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/presidential-campaign/264023-in-blockbuster-poll-sanders-destroys-trump-by-13
In addition, if he only makes some progress toward that goal, but succeeds in directing the conversation and motivating his (hopefully expanding) base, there's another chance to flip the House in another two years.
Likely? No. But the odds that Hillary could flip the House within 4 years is even smaller.
Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)I'm closing out my work week here, but will definitely give your response the time and thought it deserves when I get a chance this weekend.
ymetca
(1,182 posts)which includes this interesting part:
"This is not just about breaking up the biggest banks," Seiberg wrote. "Sanders is calling for a system in which financial firms are smaller, the government controls the interest rates that banks charge, certain fees are capped, the Postal Service becomes a viable competitor to banks and payday lenders [and] CEOs would be criminally liable if employees defraud customers.
"Sanders appears to argue that he could implement much of this agenda on his own even without the need for legislation," Seiberg continued. "We caution against dismissing this view. There is much that the White House, Treasury, or the financial regulators could do by executive order . Bashing Wall Street is a populist message that appeals to conservatives and liberals. Sanders has now laid out the most radical option on the table that other candidates will be judged against."
Sanders, when President can and will implement significant financial system reforms. HRC? Nothing but smoke and mirrors.
dreamnightwind
(4,775 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)And I never, ever say "never."
I was 9 and in the fifth grade. My teacher presented a little homemade model of the Parthenon and told us that was the birthplace of democracy. Now I was a poor kid living in the Midwest in the early 1950s. But I said to myself right then and there, "I'm going to go there and see that Parthenon." And close to 15 years later, that is precisely what I did. It was thanks to the man I married. But what I said I would do, I did.
That is only one amazing example from my life. Be positive in your thoughts and actions.
If you never dare to want something that everyone says is impossible, you probably won't get it or do it or have it. You have to keep focused on your cosmic wish list.
It isn't magic. I just don't know what it is. But if you, from the get-go say "That is impossible. We can never do that. Forget it," you will never get what you know is right for you and for the country.
One of the things I greatly dislike about Hillary and her campaign is the negativity of it and of her supporters.
We are the country of people who achieve the impossible.
Of course, Bernie can get Congress to enact the legislation he wants if we strongly support his request for it, his campaign for it. Of course, we can.
Remember the Obama slogan: "Yes, we can."
That's what I believe about Sanders. Yes, we can.
In this you are right. It isn't "Yes, he can."
Rather it is "Yes. We can."
I like the fact that Bernie is so determined and so positive in his belief that he will achieve what is right for America.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)bvf
(6,604 posts)mmonk
(52,589 posts)presented.
Uncle Joe
(58,403 posts)Thanks for the thread, BigBearJohn.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)leftofcool
(19,460 posts)Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)leftofcool
(19,460 posts)Not without Congress he isn't. He isn't going to get free college without Congress or any thing else he wants.
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)uponit7771
(90,359 posts)... without obstruction just like they did with Obama /UnicornWorldThinking
tk2kewl
(18,133 posts)U of M Dem
(154 posts)to the massive extraction of wealth out of all the lower classes (poor, middle, upper middle, even 20% ers) by the mega rich, or they are complicit with it and are willfully ignorant.
The OWS chant 'banks got bailed out; we got sold out' and the concept of the "revolving door in politics" actually means something and has a grave effect on our lives. Hill supporters and other republican minded folks simply can't or won't see how this effects EVERY facet of the lives of EVERY American and most non-Americans.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)So we're "ignorant" ... "complicit" ... and "willfully ignorant". (If anyone dared to post such things about Bernie's supporters the likelihood of surviving an alert would not be in their favor.)
floriduck
(2,262 posts)But you're catching on. Good job.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)ConservativeDemocrat
(2,720 posts)When that happens, Democrats on the DU will be separated from the Naderites, like wheat from chaff.
- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)SunSeeker
(51,658 posts)Ouch!
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)...let's see:
Hillary's net worth: $200 million
Bernie's net worth: $200,000
Who could it be I wonder? So hard to decide... NOT!
Bernie & Elizabeth 2016!!!
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)~~ Anonymous Internet Poster
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)JRLeft
(7,010 posts)Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)Remember: contrary to Sanders, Clinton has ZERO cross-over appeal.
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)She doesn't appeal to the lower Republican echelons, but the Republican elite are comfortable with her, as evidenced by all of those megabanks that have paid her hundreds of thousands of dollar an hour to talk to them.
Duval
(4,280 posts)Reaganomics. Too many are forced to work two jobs, there hasn't been an increase in minimum wage in ages and the top 1% own more than half of the wealth of the USA, plus we can't leave out the "Austerity" measures still in place.
Check out the DOW, tk2kewl. Things are not looking good for our economy.
tk2kewl
(18,133 posts)Android3.14
(5,402 posts)They'll prance, and preen in a dark room and emote indignation if anyone flips a switch for any fact-based light that might shine.
GoneOffShore
(17,340 posts)This was, is and will always be HRC's default.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Her comprehensive thoughts and plans with respect to regulating the banking industry are second to none. Progressive after progressive are backing her in this area. There will always be some naysayers. I'm highly confident those like Goodman are horrified with Clintons plan to regulate banks and Wall Street. I expect nothing less.
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)stupidicus
(2,570 posts)so you submitted a tacit admission that it is pretty much accurate with a subject change.
thanks for the concession
uponit7771
(90,359 posts)... Sanders doesn't seem to tout anything else but income equality and hatred of wall street.
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)You are so cruel to the Inevitable one!
hedda_foil
(16,375 posts)CharlotteVale
(2,717 posts)and will put her own interests first always. And that is not what I want in a president.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)stupidicus
(2,570 posts)eom
Gamecock Lefty
(700 posts)You continue to talk more about our candidate than you do your own.
Very telling. Running scared?
stupidicus
(2,570 posts)and you struggle with understanding this why exactly?
Rightwingers use to love that line of BS in defense of Sarah Palin too.
Like them, do you think some "envy" is involved as well?
What's very "telling" is the way HC supporters have littered this post with irrelevant and immaterial BS leaving the material/charges in the TP wholly unaddressed and unrebutted, like they are entirely true or something.
thanks for that
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)her campaign deserves to be damaged. - Preferably to the point of tanking in the primaries.
gordyfl
(598 posts)I'm convinced Bernie Sanders will use the bully-pulpit better than any president in our lifetime.
Hillary will just continue ""Business as usual." "Triangulation". "Reaching across the aisle."
We need change. Real Change.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)....is like asking why fish swim.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)Babel_17
(5,400 posts)If Senator Sanders can be knocked out of the campaign, then being sloppy with the facts doesn't really have a downside. If he stays in it, then the Clinton campaign might pay a long lasting price for saying anything that they can be called out on.
I guess we'll get to see what the multitude of "referees" that people listen to have to say about this issue. Those quotes about Wall Street from the debate have stuck to Secretary Clinton, so she's going to take flak that she might otherwise have avoided.
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)at a campaign speech. Must be already bringing out the scare tactics.
LS_Editor
(893 posts)There was a very good reason Hillary tried to sully Bernie Sander's speech today before it happened. It's because she is bought and paid for, and Hillary doesn't want her bankster friends to risk their own damned money in high-risk investments. A good take here...
Hillary Criticizes Bernie's Plan to Break Up Her Friends' Banks
Summary:
Summarizes it quite nicely, I think.
+
More at link...
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)Duckfan
(1,268 posts)...get cozy with one of the corporate favorites. Thought he had more instincts to fight for little guy. Obi Wan was wrong about Anakin, I was wrong about Frank.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)EdwardBernays
(3,343 posts)Clinton's campaign started the Birther Movement?
"Then, as Obama marched toward the presidency, a new suggestion emerged: That he was not eligible to serve.
That theory first emerged in the spring of 2008, as Clinton supporters circulated an anonymous email questioning Obamas citizenship.
Barack Obamas mother was living in Kenya with his Arab-African father late in her pregnancy. She was not allowed to travel by plane then, so Barack Obama was born there and his mother then took him to Hawaii to register his birth, asserted one chain email that surfaced on the urban legend site Snopes.com in April 2008."
http://www.politico.com/story/2011/04/birtherism-where-it-all-began-053563?o=0
http://legalnewsline.com/stories/510520259-supreme-court-declines-to-hear-obama-citizenship-challenge
"Lets flashback to 2008: Clinton is locked in a heated primary battle with Obama, with nasty accusations being flung on both sides. But Obama has begun to pull and away and Clinton seems doomed when, lo and behold, a certain image ends up the featured image on the Drudge Report:
Clicking the link brought up a Drudge exclusive, reporting that Clinton staffers circulated the image via email. Wouldnt we be seeing this on the cover of every magazine if it were [Hillary]? one Clinton staffer complained.
The Obama camp went ballistic, calling it the most shameful, offensive fear-mongering weve seen from either party in this election. Clinton aides at first brushed off the story entirely, but then denied having ever sent it. Even though, months earlier, the campaign was forced to fire two Iowa staffers caught forwarding an email saying Obama was a Muslim."
http://www.mediaite.com/online/hillary-clinton-horrified-by-obama-rumors-her-campaign-helped-create/
Honesty is not something she or her supporters are known for... (See also:TPP)
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Vote Bernie... for a breath of fresh air.
Bernie & Elizabeth 2016!!!