2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumDemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)I would say more but I would surely get a hide.
MoveIt
(399 posts)good thing you erred on the side of caution!
cali
(114,904 posts)use race as a political cudgel. I would say more, but....
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)I know you and your compadres don't like me, don't respect me, and don't have a modicum of concern for how I feel and I would say what I think about that but I don't want a timeout like so many of my compadres on this board.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)DULink: http://www.democraticunderground.com/128039737
I doubt the campaign came up with it, I think some industrious entrepreneur who could make some money selling T-Shirts did.
Sorry you're offended, but it's election season...
There WILL be offense...
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)shows how little respect you have for me as an individual. I respect everyone's opinion, but I don't agree with everyone's opinion.
And I despise political dirty tricks and smear campaigns against ANY candidate, including Republicans. Because we don't need to lie about people, as I saw people doing right here about Sanders, in an effort to try to destroy his campaign AND him as a person.
All we have to do is talk about where candidates stand on the issues, period. That's what I care about, that's how I decide who to support.
I don't attack other candidates on a personal level, I point out where they are wrong or right on issues, but that isn't what was being done here by SOME, not all, people who support Hillary.
And many Bernie supporters are no longer here either, some very good, longtime DUers.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Romulox
(25,960 posts)ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)It was supposed to work!
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)Your candidate has some serious flaws.
Deal with it.
merrily
(45,251 posts)DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)They require no elucidation.
merrily
(45,251 posts)DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)Or perhaps to candidates of only one race, which is also ridiculous.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/118723275
ETA: If someone ask you a question about your post, that probably means your post is not self-explanatory. res ipsa loquitur.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)Who is "they"?
merrily
(45,251 posts)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shepard_Fairey
And, a poster or an image is not a "mantra."
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)"Hope and change" was the mantra of the first black president. Your compadre turned it into a punch line. It is what it is.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Hence my question, "Do you mean hope?"
And running on "hope and change" was not unique to Obama.
You also used the term "seminal poster," so I have no earthly idea why you claim not to know what I was talking about when I replied about the poster.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)eom
merrily
(45,251 posts)politician and not any one race.
"Your compadre"
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)I merely took umbrage at the turning of it into a punch line.
"Your (not) compadre."
merrily
(45,251 posts)And you posted about it in the African American Group as though the OP had racial animus.
BTW, I think it both silly and unfortunate for you that you seek to link together everyone who supports Sanders and also seem to think that I cannot be friends with those whom I disagree. My best political buddy, with whom I most enjoy discussing politics, is a centrist. At the same time, I have disagreed many times with posts made by DU's Sanders supporters. People who support Sanders are not cardboard cutouts of each other. Neither are those who support Hillary. Neither is any group of people
However, I do take note of your telling me that you are not my friend and I take you at your word.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)The whole concept of the original poster is evocative of the Obama campaign. To deny the nexus between "hope and change" and the election of the first black president betrays a willing suspension of disbelief.
IMHO, the (revised) poster is the metaphorical equivalent of defecating on someone I admire greatly and I became outraged .I couldn't live with myself if I didn't give voice to my outrage. Words matter...Images matter...
merrily
(45,251 posts)Divernan
(15,480 posts)BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)tularetom
(23,664 posts)"DEFECATING"?
Gimme a break.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)Better work on getting a thicker skin. The fun's just beginning.
sunnystarr
(2,638 posts)The image became one of the most widely recognized symbols of Obama's campaign message, spawning many variations and imitations, including some commissioned by the Obama campaign.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_%22Hope%22_poster
Bold added by me.
There have been parodies of the poster but not of the kind that Bernie would want to be associated with. But I see it's too late for that now.
Your argument here that this poster isn't necessarily associated with Obama is laughable. Check the meaning of ICONIC.
Your many argumentative in-your-face posts is what turns me off to Bernie supporters and why I come to DU less nowadays. Too many of you bully dedicated Dems who just aren't ready to jump on a bandwagon filled with much hysteria. Showing respect would at least encourage someone to check out the Bernie posts which have seemed to take over DU.
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)The Hillary fanatics have been nothing but disdainful, condescending, and vile from the beginning. Then when called out they whine. It's nauseating.
sunnystarr
(2,638 posts)cause they were just drowned out with Bernie posts. And I look for posts that aren't Bernie posts all the time which is a time consuming task indeed.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Last edited Wed Aug 19, 2015, 09:39 PM - Edit history (1)
they are long on ad homs.
First, I never said the poster was not associated with Obama. I know what iconic means. However, you might want to look up the word "mantra."
Democrat Since Birth's post referred to a mantra, which is a word or a sound, not an image. I tried to ask him if he meant hope and he would not reply. Given the wording he chose, I said the word "hope" did not belong to anyone; and nothing about that comment is wrong.
Then he said the poster was seminal. A synonym for "seminal" is original. However, Fairey stole the idea and then destroyed the evidence that he had done that, as the wikipedia article you quoted clearly says. So I replied to Democrat Since Birth that the poster was not seminal, but copyright infringement, also a correct statement. Moreover, both before and after the 2008 campaign, the poster has been associated with many things other than Obama. However, I never said the image was not associated with Obama. You made that up.
The claim of Democrat Since Birth that a use of the poster as an attempt at mild humor at this point, when it has been used and parodied for so many things, defecates on Obama is what is over the top. If you want to say it's not funny, fine. If you want to say it defecates on Obama, good grief.
Your post is full of ad homs about me and Bernie's supporters, and Democrat Since Birth signed his post as "not my friend." Why? Because I disagreed with his view of the OP? My posts to him did nothing similar. Yet you claim I am the one who posted disrespectfully. Whatever.
As far as Bernie posts outnumbering Hillary posts in general, the great majority of posters on this site support Bernie, so nothing about that is unusual. If that bothers you, you may want to stay closer to the Hillary Group or the Barack Obama Group or the Hillary Mojo Board the owner of this site started for fans of Hillary.
As far as my Bernie posts in particular, I have been spending by far the greatest majority of my time posting in the Bernie Group or the Populist Group, not in this forum, where most of the arguments occur. If you don't want to see me posting about Bernie in those groups, just stay out of them. I wasn't the one to re-open this particular argument hours after Democrat Since Birth and I ended it, either. You picked this argument with me with a post full of inaccuracies. If you think one reply from me to you is out of order under those circumstances, you're wrong. Nor will I continue this particular argument with you. Let's see what you do, though.
sunnystarr
(2,638 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)It has everything to do with the current president who ran on a campaign of Hope and Change, but who some did not go far enough in the direction of change.
Agree or disagree with the premise, fine. But the racial genetics of President Obama have nothing to do with this.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)eom
Armstead
(47,803 posts)and you stated yours.
America. What a Country!
merrily
(45,251 posts)at all is, in his mind, defecating on the first African American President of the United States.
OMG!
LiberalLovinLug
(14,175 posts)Of course it is a jab at Obama and his record! I totally agree that the posters' look and the word hope obviously reflects that iconic poster.
BUT... You must be aware that there is a large segment, especially from the left of the party, that has been disappointed with the current President's positions and the strong opinion that he has been anything but a champion for "hope and change" in the status quo when it comes to financial reform, TPP, wiretapping, drones, etc.. Obama opened himself up for this kind of satire, by his actions, not because of his skin colour.
If you play the race card too many times the cards get a little dog eared and worn out don't you think?
sunnystarr
(2,638 posts)accomplishments over 8 years, even the Clinton accomplishments over those 8 years. Then look at Obama's accomplishments. That is hope and change! Radical changes just don't happen overnight.
The fact that so much was accomplished with open war declared by the Rs against anything he wanted is amazing. His plans for immigration, jobs, and more that I just can't think of right now and don't have time to look up never made it on the House floor.
I really don't understand how you critics think he could singlehandedly get everything he wanted passed. He worked with what he had and accomplished much. He's done more than I've seen any president in my lifetime from Nixon to now.
It reminds me of kids who didn't get all they wanted so they didn't appreciate all they did get.
potone
(1,701 posts)It suggests, at the least, that he was either lying or cynical in his campaign. I have been disappointed in some of his decisions, but let us remember the state the country was in when he came into office. He faced disasters everywhere he looked and had NO help from Republicans in trying to rescue the economy, salvage our foreign policy and extricate us from the Iraq war, which we were losing. It is easy to forget just how bad things were when Bush left office.
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)Attributing every criticism of Obama to racism is a cowardly tactic that enures people to actual racism and it needs to stop now.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)If I walk up to a stranger, tell him or her "you are full of shit" , it's not as if I am giving that person a lot to rebut.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)populism. I did not see it as aimed at Obama AT ALL, let alone as defecating on the first African American President of the USA.
An attempt at mild humor. My God!
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)And calling somebody a 'coward' over the internet is tantamount to calling somebody a 'coward' over the telephone. Feel free to infer from that what you will.
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)And I'd happily say it to your face.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)I don't want to run afoul of the terms of service but if you have anything "you want to say to my face" I will be more than happy to provide you with that opportunity.
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)You will go down with the racist dog whistle ship that helped sink Hillary in 08 as well. I know it looked good on paper.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)well played
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)I swear on my dead mom that what I am about to say is true.
Unlike some other posters on this board I didn't call members of Black Lives Matter "race naggers".
Unlike some other posters on this board I didn't suggest supporters of another candidate were "F-Ing R'tards".
Unlike some other posters on this board I didn't say the two African American women who went up on the dais when Senator Sanders was speaking "were crazier than shit house rats".
Unlike some other posters on this board I didn't suggest blacks should worry about black on black crime to dismiss the concerns of Black Lives Matter.
I would tell you what you can do with your dog whistle but that would earn me a hide even though your calumnies against me go unaddressed.
Oh, and nice deflection...I'll give it a 7.
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)And let Hillary know her racist dog-whistle campaign from 08 in reverse isn't going to work any better this time.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)My old man only had a ninth grade education. He was literally emancipated at fifteen years old when he moved out of his parents home to work as a stevedore but I digress...He taught me to treat everybody with respect.
If I trafficked in racism, misogyny, homophobia, xenophobia, et cetera i would be dishonoring his memory...
There's an autosearch feature. Certainly you can find evidence of me engaging in such odious behavior if such behavior exists.
In the absence of such evidence I would ask that you withdraw your libelous statements against me but that would require at the least, a modicum of character.
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)Minimizing actual racism by trying to paint something like this as racism to try and score political points. You and your ilk have been doing it for months and it's disgusting. And I would expect no less from the same campaign that tried to use the racist dog whistle against Obama in 08. I'm not sure which is a sadder prospect... whether you're sincere with this and cant even recognize it or you're just cynically using it.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)Barack Obama was turned into a punch line and "Hope and Change was characterized as "bullshit" in the first post and I took umbrage as is my right.
I would literally rather be dropped out of an airplane from twenty thousand feet and left for the buzzards then to withdraw one word I wrote in this thread.
And interesting that you didn't actually refute anything I have written, how could you?
Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)"thugs" "inhuman" "stupid" "idiots" and "animals"
But by all means, let's focus on "actual racism."
The fact that some of these people are still here astounds me, truly.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Where the poster feigned ignorance and used the concept of deflection, is all anyone needs to read to see your assertion is correct. It's simple on this one. Know them by their words.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)....is out of line and, from my perspective, lacking an explanation of our use of the word, totally incorrect.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Trust me, the Google is amazing and you will see this use of the Farley poster by many, many, many different causes. This one is actually quite late to the party.
frylock
(34,825 posts)The problem is that if you actually had the courage to say it, you'd be asked to explain it, and you can't fucking do that.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)Making a mockery of Hope and Change and suggesting it's bullshit is strg8 up racist.
Oh, and courage is a funny thing to talk about from the anonymity of an internet connection.
frylock
(34,825 posts)in the interest of full disclosure, I actually have a limited release numbered version of the iconic HOPE poster. Paid like $60 for it during one of Shep's poster drops. These posters where selling for as high as $2000 at one point, but I held onto mine because I actually believed that crap.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)Barack Obama has been the most consequential and transformational president since Lyndon Johnson and deserves a lot better than be turned into some ersatz punch line.
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)Free trade fetishists, Heritage Foundation healthcare, and education privatization. Not my Democratic Party and I suspect Johnson would agree.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)Barack Obama's presidency is the culmination of Abraham Lincoln and Lyndon Johnson's work. They both would be pleased and proud.
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)How very 3rd way of you.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)Thanks to President Obama I and 15,000,000 other Americans now get Medicaid which was previously unavailable to single indigent adults and others that live below the poverty line.
And eleven million more get subsidies to buy insurance because of the Affordable Care Act...
It's far from perfect but it has made more difference in poor and struggling people's lives than a million speeches about the one percent that do nothing but provide people with a cheap emotional release.
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)Causes people to close their ears and eyes to true racism. Congratulations on lessening the real problems for political gain. Disgusting.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)If I wasn't concerned about a hide I would say in the proverbial New York minute who I think the people that want to "close their ears and eyes to true racism" are...
God as my witness I would have no compunction about saying who I think those people are in real life and I should be struck down with lightning if I am lying.
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)You are fooling no one with your sanctimonious self righteousness.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)It's been offensive to many for a long time, and only defines the mocker. I made a post about this kind of maliciousness:
Joy strengthens the heart of the weary, the ones whose purpose is loving.
Just remember that people out to hurt others can gain nothing of value from their actions, all they can do is create misery.
Misery is easy to create. It's the tool of the maliciously lazy.
Happiness takes work, it is the reward for a life being well lived.
Make the choice to not let others steal your hard earned joy.
Take the negative energy they try to fill you with and create something beautiful.
~ Anonymous
This is the fruit of love, to look at the eyes of this girl and others in a refugee camp that Obama visited. These people are the victims of war and exploitation of the most brutal kind ever known, yet media gives them scant attention, as the 1% are not affected by it
The amount of murderous violence in our land alone that this man has had to see and feel and comfort, is staggering. Confronting and healing evil in a world of hatred and violence, is part of Obama's complex task in a world in which many insist he fail. He is planting seeds of consciousness in all he does that is lauded or condemned. This is the reality of the world we live in.
It is not a job for the faint of heart, and the maliciously lazy who see their victory in tearing down the work and the workers are not going to do it. Look into those angel eyes meeting his, and weep for those whose lives deserve love:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/110211344#post2
Vanity is unworthy and inappropriate in the face of so much suffering.
sheshe2
(83,831 posts)That image has always taken my breath away, thank you for the repost.
eridani
(51,907 posts)Serious irony there.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)The mask is all the way off now. Outside of the Republican Party, I don't think I have witnessed such an overall offensive group of people.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)If posting on Democratic Underground makes you a progressive then I am LeBron James because I post on ESPN.
Snotcicles
(9,089 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)It's completely different than the op. I get you are angling at something but you might want to rethink it. In 08 I was hoping Obama was in line with my beliefs. Nothing offensive at all about it. In the op, we have an image of a guy with very few accomplishments calling the first black President who played a huge role in bringing the uninsured down to around ten percent a bullshitter. Then again, Sanders himself would never be so stupid as to respect this image. He is simply smarter and better than this.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Why is the OP's poster inherently about criticising Obama, but the poster I linked not? Yes, it draws an obvious parallel due to being the same format, but both do. And the one I linked has explicit criticism of Obama in it.
Why must it be Obama who is the source of the bullshit, and not something else? Like our modern political system?
Why isn't the poster I linked saying Obama failed at hope, so now a white guy has to deliver it?
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)ieoeja
(9,748 posts)According to Hillary Clinton, that is.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)ieoeja
(9,748 posts)... parody what you wrote?
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Which is true, and she jumped straight to that solution. She is right as white people aredoing the violence to black people, and the BLM people agreed with that.
There is no need for a white person to tell black people how to manage their protests, and she didn't chide them as others have. White people need to be confronted to manage their knee jerk response to black protest. They need to listen, truly listen, take a bow and learn from black people how much their white responsibility and power is in this situation. As the man said AAs are helpless to stop white violence.
The last time I saw white people stopping white violence by meeeting it with force, was by JFK and RFK who were struck down in their prime to the grief of black and white Americans:
James Howard Meredith (born June 25, 1933) is an American civil rights movement figure, a writer, and a political adviser. In 1962, he was the first African-American student admitted to the segregated University of Mississippi,[1] an event that was a flashpoint in the American civil rights movement.
Motivated by President John F. Kennedy's inaugural address, Meredith decided to exercise his constitutional rights and apply to the University of Mississippi.[2] His goal was to put pressure on the Kennedy administration to enforce civil rights for African Americans...
Meredith won in court, but the Governor still fought it, and RFK talked him into following the law and admitting him. Federal law, not state law.
Some white students and segregationists, many who had driven in for the event, protested his enrollment by rioting on the Oxford campus.
Robert Kennedy called in 500 U.S. Marshals to take control, who were supported by the 70th Army Engineer Combat Battalion from Ft Campbell, Kentucky. They created a tent camp and kitchen for the US Marshals.
To bolster law enforcement, President John F. Kennedy sent in U.S. Army troops from the 2nd Infantry Division from Ft. Benning, GA under the command of Maj. Gen Charles Billingslea and military police from the 503rd Military Police Battalion, and called in troops from the Mississippi Army National Guard.[13]
Gen. Bllingslea's staff car was mobbed and set on fire at the entrance to the university gate. General Billingslea, the Deputy Commanding General, John Corley, and aide, Capt Harold Lyon, were trapped inside the burning car but managed to force the car door open and had to crawl 200 yards into the gate to the University Lyceum Building while someone was shooting at them and continued to shoot the windows out, though the Army never returned fire.
Gen Billingslea had established a series of escalating secret code words for issuing ammunition down to the platoons with another one for issuing it to squads, and a third one for loading, none of which could take place without the General himself, confirming the secret codes.
In the violent clash, two people died, including the French journalist Paul Guihard,[7] on assignment for the London Daily Sketch. He was found dead behind the Lyceum building with a gunshot wound to the back.
One hundred-sixty US Marshals, one-third of the group, were injured in the melee, and 40 soldiers and National Guardsmen were wounded.[7][1[13]
US Army trucks loaded with steel-helmeted US Marshals roll across the University of Mississippi campus on October 3, 1962.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Meredith
During this time, he was advised by Medgar Evers, a civil rights leader.
Evers was also inspired by Kennedy and killed the same day he came home to tell his family the good news he had heard about his decision. Terrorists gunned him down in his front yard in view of his wife and children.
In the early morning of June 12, 1963, just hours after President John F. Kennedy's speech on national television in support of civil rights, Evers pulled into his driveway after returning from a meeting with NAACP lawyers. Emerging from his car and carrying NAACP T-shirts that read "Jim Crow Must Go," Evers was struck in the back with a bullet fired from an Enfield 1917 rifle; the bullet ripped through his heart. He staggered 9 meters (30 feet) before collapsing.
He was taken to the local hospital in Jackson where he was initially refused entry because of his color, until it was explained who he was; he died in the hospital.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medgar_Evers#Assassination
All these leaders were attacked repeatedly and denied the most basic of human rights. Meredith was a very intelligent, successful man with his own strong views shown at the link. The terrorists have not stopped hating:
In 2014, vandals linked to the Sigma Phi Epsilon fraternity vandalized Meredith's honorary University of Mississippi campus statue by putting a noose around its neck and draping it with a controversial former Georgia state flag. In response, he said "that just clearly shows that were not training our children like the Bible says. They dont know right and wrong, good and bad and how to apply it to life."[1]
Our current crop of Tenthers, Teaterrorists and Libertarians would have called what the Kennedys and the military did the action of a police state.
We have not seen that kind of response since then with white people taking action against violent white people. It is a white problem. The only common factor in all these cases are AAs just asking to be treated as the amended Constitution demands they be.
shenmue
(38,506 posts)sufrommich
(22,871 posts)DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)eom
cali
(114,904 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)tk2kewl
(18,133 posts)Quote from the artist:
"Obama has had a really tough time, but there have been a lot of things that he's compromised on that I never would have expected. I mean, drones and domestic spying are the last things I would have thought he'd support." http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/interviews/a35288/shepard-fairey-street-art-obama-hope-poster/
and Mr. Fairy's Occupy poster (is this mocking?):
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)... and it hasn't changed much
tk2kewl
(18,133 posts)Last edited Wed Aug 19, 2015, 03:44 PM - Edit history (2)
Or the poster (picture) in the op? Both? Neither?
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)uponit7771
(90,347 posts)GusBob
(7,286 posts)Spazito
(50,404 posts)The "I'm with the fringe" one is wonderfully creative, done with humor while making a point. This one has none of those traits, it's the opposite.
I see, however, you want it.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Spazito
(50,404 posts)with originality, creativity and humor. RIP Jackpine Radical.
merrily
(45,251 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Agschmid
(28,749 posts)On a roll lately...
merrily
(45,251 posts)Not even on this thread alone.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)DirkGently
(12,151 posts)After a trillion takes on that design, it's now a sign of "masked" racism to make any use of it now?
It's cute and funny. It's not particularly mocking of Obama, but you know what? THAT'S OKAY. PEOPLE CAN MOCK LEADERS.
Even the ones we like.
Nice going as usual WillyT.
(Let's give the anti-Sanders race-baiting a rest for a day or two maybe?)
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)DirkGently
(12,151 posts)Literally no one thinks that.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)DirkGently
(12,151 posts)Hooboy.
Good luck with all that.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)DirkGently
(12,151 posts)I recall, as an Obama supporter, the Hillary folks on DU deriding Obama as an unelectable, too-liberal fringe candidate.
Which is the same thing the same people are now saying about Sanders.
Conserva-dems supported Hillary then, and they support her now. Which is totally fine, but it doesn't make the liberals of all people racist or sexist or whatever nonsense is being proposed here.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)DirkGently
(12,151 posts)The differential between Clinton and Sanders is left / right.
It's not black / white or man / woman or whatever weird ugliness a few unfortunately opportunistically minded people would like to turn it into.
Liberals consistently prefer liberals. When Obama and HRC were head-to-head, they largely sided with Obama, while conservative-leaning Dems preferred Hillary.
It's no different today. Conservative Dems are circling around Hillary; liberals again prefer the more liberal candidate.
That's how these discussions are supposed to go. It does not require unreasoning hatred on anyone's part to prefer Dems more aligned with their own principles.
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)Even though it's blowing up in her face.
DirkGently
(12,151 posts)All the Democratic candidates have been affirmatively pro-civil rights, as Dems tend to be, from the start, and have also shown themselves open to hearing and meeting and working with activists. I would say Sanders has been the best, but then I give weight to his decades of civil rights activism, which no one else is under any obligation to agree with.
Not all activists are going to like all Dems. That's fine. No one is entitled to anyone's support. There may be yelling. Also fine.
But if we allow conservatives of any stripe to gin up racial strife among Democrats, based on "reactions on the Internet," and the underlying bullshit notion that liberals are the "real problem" somehow, we are all idiots.
And we're not. I think.
We'll see.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)I am pro choice
-pro affirmative action
-pro immigration reform
-pro health care for all
-pro minimum wage
-pro paid leave
-pro robust safety net
-making glbtq citizens a protected class under the law
-reducing student debt and making college more accessible for starters
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)...and follow up post don't get close :rolleyes:
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)I voted for Obama four times: in each primary and each general.
You know who I wasn't a fan of and am still not? Hillary.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Obama has excellent accomplishments at the highest level of government. I understand wanting to desperately attach yourself to him in any way but this is simply offensive.
SonderWoman
(1,169 posts)Anything Bernie has ever done in 30 years.
OnyxCollie
(9,958 posts)Or the Holder doctrine?
These are Obama's "accomplishments," as well.
SonderWoman
(1,169 posts)OnyxCollie
(9,958 posts)or detain a US citizen indefinitely, what worse can be done?
That's dictatorial territory there.
Compared to that, Bernie's votes have little impact.
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)Oh you mean the great insurance company public funding transfer with a couple progressive provisions thrown in act of 2010? Yeah quite an achievement for a Democrat to push through Republican "healthcare reform."
mmonk
(52,589 posts)Me too.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)uponit7771
(90,347 posts)... Hillary fuck policy or positions or the fact that not one of the candidates can throw a stone.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)jtuck004
(15,882 posts)John Poet
(2,510 posts)That makes a great caption all on its own. The "Hope" reference is unnecessary.
Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)in order to take a swipe at Obama.
Poor taste, IMO...
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)hifiguy
(33,688 posts)Let me count the ways......
JackInGreen
(2,975 posts)It's apparent that so many of our contingent have lost their sense of humor and are looking for any reason to be outraged.
I wonder what kind of response I'd get for posting my "sweet sweet hillary tears" t-shirt....
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)It was supposed to be their trump card and they can't let it go.
Zorra
(27,670 posts)I know what you did there.
emulatorloo
(44,156 posts)Amusing or not, it is bad strategy, and am pretty sure Bernie would not be thrilled to be associated with it.
onehandle
(51,122 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)"After Dade County, I walked among the angry and the frustrated night after night and I looked at their faces. And in San Francisco, three days before Gay Pride Day, a person was killed just because he was gay. And that night, I walked among the sad and the frustrated at City Hall in San Francisco and later that night as they lit candles on Castro Street and stood in silence, reaching out for some symbolic thing that would give them hope. These were strong people, whose faces I knew from the shop, the streets, meetings and people who I never saw before but I knew. They were strong, but even they needed hope.
And the young gay people in the Altoona, Pennsylvanias and the Richmond, Minnesotas who are coming out and hear Anita Bryant on television and her story. The only thing they have to look forward to is hope. And you have to give them hope. Hope for a better world, hope for a better tomorrow, hope for a better place to come to if the pressures at home are too great. Hope that all will be all right. Without hope, not only gays, but the blacks, the seniors, the handicapped, the us'es, the us'es will give up. And you and you and you, you have to give people hope."
Discuss.
Babel_17
(5,400 posts)In this case it's about giving a nod, and a tip of the hat, to the ideals behind the Hope for change, and to say that the person wearing this logo is supporting the "no bullshit" candidate.
The presumption being that this candidate won't distance himself from his campaign platform.
As far as politics go, it's pretty mild. If someone made it there might be some sales, humor is a matter of taste, but I'd prefer something more classic, with a more enduring message and iconic imagery*.
Wasn't going to reply or rec but given what's been sent your way I thought I should.
*I'm a working class person, give me a working class shirt! Something strong and direct, a shirt built to last, and with colors that won't run.