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LOL !!! - I Want One... (Original Post) WillyT Aug 2015 OP
Interesting use of the campaign mantra of the first black president. DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2015 #1
I know right? MoveIt Aug 2015 #3
it's interesting that so many Hillary supporters cali Aug 2015 #8
Say it...I don't care... DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2015 #11
I'll say this, it didn't work last time. Hillary lost, Obama won. sabrina 1 Aug 2015 #69
Whatever DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2015 #135
Just In Case You're Interested... This Is Where I Found Out About It... Just This Morning... WillyT Aug 2015 #136
I don't have 'compadres' I speak only for me. The very fact that you would make such a statement sabrina 1 Aug 2015 #138
But what? This is reaching comedic levels if it weren't serious. Nt NCTraveler Aug 2015 #43
So many *white* Hillary supporters used race as a political cudgel... nt Romulox Aug 2015 #45
And they're still trying ibegurpard Aug 2015 #77
LOL! Yeah, we're all "Hillary supporters" using race as a "cudgel". KittyWampus Aug 2015 #92
Do you mean "Hope?" merrily Aug 2015 #12
My remarks stand on their own. DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2015 #13
Not really. merrily Aug 2015 #17
Really. DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2015 #18
Nope. Because they imply that "hope" somehow belongs to only one candidate, which is ridiculous. merrily Aug 2015 #19
Yep. Because the seminal poster made a mockery of the campaign mantra of the first black president. DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2015 #22
It was not seminal. It was copyright infringement and Fairey did not remain a fan of Obama anyway. merrily Aug 2015 #24
I have no earthly idea of what you are talking about. DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2015 #26
The image shown in the OP does not say "hope and change." Of those words, it says only "hope." merrily Aug 2015 #27
That's a difference without a distinction. DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2015 #28
It's impossible to argue the word "hope" belongs to anyone, not any one person, not any one merrily Aug 2015 #29
I never claimed anybody's proprietorship of the word "hope". DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2015 #33
You claimed "hope" was the mantra of the first African American President & had been misused. merrily Aug 2015 #34
The whole concept of the poster is evocative of the Obama campaign. DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2015 #38
OMG. Defecating on Obama? Talk about over the top! merrily Aug 2015 #41
Over the top indeed. "To infinity and beyond!" Divernan Aug 2015 #47
Over the top is an understatement. BeanMusical Aug 2015 #95
Hyperbole much? tularetom Aug 2015 #85
chill, geez grasswire Aug 2015 #104
Barack Obama "Hope" poster sunnystarr Aug 2015 #115
respect is given where it is offered ibegurpard Aug 2015 #117
Must be I missed those posts sunnystarr Aug 2015 #128
Both the on topic comments and the off topic comments in your post are as short on facts as merrily Aug 2015 #147
You're absolutely right on point (nt) sunnystarr Aug 2015 #116
I think the "first black president" has nothing to do with it Armstead Aug 2015 #30
IMHO it has everything to do with it. I am allowed to disagree with you. DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2015 #31
You most certainly are. And I am allowed to disagree with you. And I stated my point... Armstead Aug 2015 #32
See Reply 38. Something obviously intended as mild humor and not aimed at Obama merrily Aug 2015 #44
Oh please, Obama could have been red, yellow, green or white LiberalLovinLug Aug 2015 #99
Would you please look at the Bush sunnystarr Aug 2015 #126
Whether or not the intention is racist, it can only be viewed as a cheap slam at Obama. potone Aug 2015 #87
Yep. nt cyberswede Aug 2015 #146
Oh cut the crap ibegurpard Aug 2015 #35
But it's so much easier than addressing the criticism! (nt) jeff47 Aug 2015 #37
What criticism? DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2015 #42
Because that post is the start of history. Nothing happened before it. (nt) jeff47 Aug 2015 #90
I read the criticism as being against politicians in general, maybe Hillary's brand new merrily Aug 2015 #54
I stand by my assertion. DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2015 #40
your assertion is bullshit ibegurpard Aug 2015 #48
I stand by my assertion ... DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2015 #57
of course you do ibegurpard Aug 2015 #76
ouch! grasswire Aug 2015 #105
I swear on my dead mom that what I am about to say is true. DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2015 #113
you can do the same with your calumnies ibegurpard Aug 2015 #120
Why don't you cite all my calumnies... DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2015 #125
your odious behavior is right here ibegurpard Aug 2015 #130
Projection DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2015 #133
You left out Bobbie Jo Aug 2015 #139
The discussion you had above, NCTraveler Aug 2015 #50
Matthew 7:16 DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2015 #52
Great post, tis true, you will know them by their words. Thinkingabout Aug 2015 #140
+1 merrily Aug 2015 #46
"Cowardly"? What is cowardly about her comment? You may not agree with it but characterizing it... George II Aug 2015 #123
You're right, and you've said a lot. I've been told these sentiments don't exist but they do uponit7771 Aug 2015 #62
Thank you, sir... DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2015 #64
Becuase its become something now changed a few times... nadinbrzezinski Aug 2015 #84
I'll just say it for you. You think it's racist. frylock Aug 2015 #111
courage... DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2015 #114
Hope and Change made a mockery of its own damn self.. frylock Aug 2015 #119
That's your opinion... DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2015 #121
Yes for Republican policy ibegurpard Aug 2015 #124
Barack Obama is the culmination of Abraham Lincoln and Lyndon Johnson's work. DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2015 #127
And not a word about 3 specific policies I just mentioned ibegurpard Aug 2015 #131
Thanks to Obama I get Medicaid which was previously unavailable to single indigent adults DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2015 #134
this bullshit ibegurpard Aug 2015 #122
In real life DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2015 #129
Oh please ibegurpard Aug 2015 #132
I doubt that being an accepted message from BS. After all, he is running on the same basis, that is, freshwest Aug 2015 #141
Great post, freshwest. sheshe2 Aug 2015 #144
And this time you are supporting the 2007 candidate of "harworking people, white people" eridani Aug 2015 #150
BLM makes you feel uncomfortable and this doesn't. NCTraveler Aug 2015 #2
If posting on Democratic Underground makes you a progressive... DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2015 #7
Likewise. nt Snotcicles Aug 2015 #36
Is this poster offensive? jeff47 Aug 2015 #39
I see no offense in it. NCTraveler Aug 2015 #55
No angle, just trying to understand. jeff47 Aug 2015 #88
AMEN uponit7771 Aug 2015 #63
BLM is doing it wrong. Which is why we should only take to White people about this. ieoeja Aug 2015 #81
Love this. Exact parody of what I described. Perfect. NCTraveler Aug 2015 #86
How does highlighting Hillary's complete disrespect for BLM ... ieoeja Aug 2015 #93
From the interview, the direction the talk was talking is that it is a white problem. freshwest Aug 2015 #148
Amen NCT shenmue Aug 2015 #118
I'm sure mocking Pres.Obama will work out well for him. nt sufrommich Aug 2015 #4
Can someone do a screen capture? DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2015 #5
bernie is mocking Obama? False. cali Aug 2015 #6
Because Bernie did that image? He worked for Obama's election and he won't even mock Hillary. merrily Aug 2015 #15
criticism is not mockery tk2kewl Aug 2015 #25
Baseless winger criticism is a waste of time, that's what most of the Hillary and Obama criticism is uponit7771 Aug 2015 #66
do you think Fairy's criticism of Obama is baseless? tk2kewl Aug 2015 #89
They don't get it, I'm almost at the fuck it state right now uponit7771 Aug 2015 #65
please get there soon ibegurpard Aug 2015 #75
...said Kerry in 2004 uponit7771 Aug 2015 #79
The Irony is: This is a bunch of bullshit n/t GusBob Aug 2015 #9
A complete lack of creativity being displayed... Spazito Aug 2015 #10
That was the great Jackpine Radical. RIP. nt merrily Aug 2015 #16
Yes, I know, a staunch Senator Sanders supporter I believe... Spazito Aug 2015 #20
Yes. And so much more. merrily Aug 2015 #21
Unrec! hrmjustin Aug 2015 #14
Another crap post. Agschmid Aug 2015 #23
I don't see it as crap, but if it were, he is certainly not alone in being on a roll of crap posts. merrily Aug 2015 #49
This poster must be effective, given the level of vitriol directed against it. nt Romulox Aug 2015 #51
its certainly striking some chords. nashville_brook Aug 2015 #56
Wow. The Fairey poster meme is suddenly racist? DirkGently Aug 2015 #58
Effective at illustrating a meme that at the root of the "Bern" is Obama hatred... yeap uponit7771 Aug 2015 #67
Oh please. DirkGently Aug 2015 #70
None of those have the word "but" in them either... good try though uponit7771 Aug 2015 #71
You're hanging your hat on "but?" DirkGently Aug 2015 #72
Nope, hanging it on context... the anti Obama one that's a constant undertone in the "Bern" uponit7771 Aug 2015 #73
The only evidence for which you offer is this "but" of yours? DirkGently Aug 2015 #74
no, context uponit7771 Aug 2015 #78
So we agree conservative Dems backed HRC last time as well? DirkGently Aug 2015 #83
But Hillary ' s sure trying hard to make it about race ibegurpard Aug 2015 #96
Anyone and everyone doing that should STOP. DirkGently Aug 2015 #100
What is a Conservative Dem? DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2015 #137
Yeah you're right the animus towards Obama is all in folks minds. POSUCS post don't get > 200 recs.. uponit7771 Aug 2015 #145
Uh.. no. Fawke Em Aug 2015 #142
I'm thinking it's people feeling anti establishment and throwing the baby out with the bath water uponit7771 Aug 2015 #143
Obama and Sanders aren't on the same playing field. NCTraveler Aug 2015 #53
Obama passing healthcare is a greater accomplishment than.... SonderWoman Aug 2015 #59
How 'bout Obama passing the indefinite detention of US citizens w/o a trial? OnyxCollie Aug 2015 #82
And Bernie voted no on closing GITMO and yes on protecting gun industry. SonderWoman Aug 2015 #97
When the executive can execute a US citizen w/o a trial OnyxCollie Aug 2015 #149
what healthcare? ibegurpard Aug 2015 #103
I know you'll get attacked for that but.. mmonk Aug 2015 #60
I Didn't Even Know About It Until I Read This: WillyT Aug 2015 #68
Yeap, I've been saying for weeks that at the root of the Bernie camp is anti Obama and anti... uponit7771 Aug 2015 #61
Okay, Dr. Frist. Nice psychoanalysis. Comrade Grumpy Aug 2015 #102
Damn, that would be refreshing. For a change. n/t jtuck004 Aug 2015 #80
Why not just "NO BULLSHIT"? John Poet Aug 2015 #91
It's necessary Bobbie Jo Aug 2015 #101
That graphic of Sanders is unbelievably creepy. Please use it. KittyWampus Aug 2015 #94
How do I love this? hifiguy Aug 2015 #98
After reading through the comments JackInGreen Aug 2015 #106
they'd try to spin it as racism ibegurpard Aug 2015 #112
*sigh*...WillyT? Zorra Aug 2015 #107
You aren't doing Bernie any favors by alienating Obama voters. emulatorloo Aug 2015 #108
Senator Sanders is better than this. You should self-delete. nt onehandle Aug 2015 #109
Harvey Milk on hope: Bluenorthwest Aug 2015 #110
It's ironic Babel_17 Aug 2015 #151

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
1. Interesting use of the campaign mantra of the first black president.
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 11:42 AM
Aug 2015

I would say more but I would surely get a hide.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
8. it's interesting that so many Hillary supporters
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 11:48 AM
Aug 2015

use race as a political cudgel. I would say more, but....

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
135. Whatever
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 06:58 PM
Aug 2015

I know you and your compadres don't like me, don't respect me, and don't have a modicum of concern for how I feel and I would say what I think about that but I don't want a timeout like so many of my compadres on this board.

 

WillyT

(72,631 posts)
136. Just In Case You're Interested... This Is Where I Found Out About It... Just This Morning...
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 07:06 PM
Aug 2015

DULink: http://www.democraticunderground.com/128039737

I doubt the campaign came up with it, I think some industrious entrepreneur who could make some money selling T-Shirts did.

Sorry you're offended, but it's election season...

There WILL be offense...


sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
138. I don't have 'compadres' I speak only for me. The very fact that you would make such a statement
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 07:14 PM
Aug 2015

shows how little respect you have for me as an individual. I respect everyone's opinion, but I don't agree with everyone's opinion.

And I despise political dirty tricks and smear campaigns against ANY candidate, including Republicans. Because we don't need to lie about people, as I saw people doing right here about Sanders, in an effort to try to destroy his campaign AND him as a person.

All we have to do is talk about where candidates stand on the issues, period. That's what I care about, that's how I decide who to support.

I don't attack other candidates on a personal level, I point out where they are wrong or right on issues, but that isn't what was being done here by SOME, not all, people who support Hillary.

And many Bernie supporters are no longer here either, some very good, longtime DUers.

 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
92. LOL! Yeah, we're all "Hillary supporters" using race as a "cudgel".
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 02:34 PM
Aug 2015

Your candidate has some serious flaws.

Deal with it.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
19. Nope. Because they imply that "hope" somehow belongs to only one candidate, which is ridiculous.
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 11:58 AM
Aug 2015

Or perhaps to candidates of only one race, which is also ridiculous.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/118723275

ETA: If someone ask you a question about your post, that probably means your post is not self-explanatory. res ipsa loquitur.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
22. Yep. Because the seminal poster made a mockery of the campaign mantra of the first black president.
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 12:00 PM
Aug 2015
Nope. Because they imply that "hope" somehow belongs to only one candidate




Who is "they"?


DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
26. I have no earthly idea of what you are talking about.
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 12:08 PM
Aug 2015

"Hope and change" was the mantra of the first black president. Your compadre turned it into a punch line. It is what it is.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
27. The image shown in the OP does not say "hope and change." Of those words, it says only "hope."
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 12:11 PM
Aug 2015

Hence my question, "Do you mean hope?"

And running on "hope and change" was not unique to Obama.

You also used the term "seminal poster," so I have no earthly idea why you claim not to know what I was talking about when I replied about the poster.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
29. It's impossible to argue the word "hope" belongs to anyone, not any one person, not any one
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 12:14 PM
Aug 2015

politician and not any one race.

"Your compadre"

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
33. I never claimed anybody's proprietorship of the word "hope".
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 12:22 PM
Aug 2015

I merely took umbrage at the turning of it into a punch line.

"Your (not) compadre."







merrily

(45,251 posts)
34. You claimed "hope" was the mantra of the first African American President & had been misused.
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 12:27 PM
Aug 2015

And you posted about it in the African American Group as though the OP had racial animus.

BTW, I think it both silly and unfortunate for you that you seek to link together everyone who supports Sanders and also seem to think that I cannot be friends with those whom I disagree. My best political buddy, with whom I most enjoy discussing politics, is a centrist. At the same time, I have disagreed many times with posts made by DU's Sanders supporters. People who support Sanders are not cardboard cutouts of each other. Neither are those who support Hillary. Neither is any group of people

However, I do take note of your telling me that you are not my friend and I take you at your word.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
38. The whole concept of the poster is evocative of the Obama campaign.
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 12:36 PM
Aug 2015

The whole concept of the original poster is evocative of the Obama campaign. To deny the nexus between "hope and change" and the election of the first black president betrays a willing suspension of disbelief.

IMHO, the (revised) poster is the metaphorical equivalent of defecating on someone I admire greatly and I became outraged .I couldn't live with myself if I didn't give voice to my outrage. Words matter...Images matter...



sunnystarr

(2,638 posts)
115. Barack Obama "Hope" poster
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 05:23 PM
Aug 2015
The Barack Obama "Hope" poster is an image of Barack Obama designed by artist Shepard Fairey, which was widely described as iconic and came to represent his 2008 presidential campaign. It consists of a stylized stencil portrait of Obama in solid red, beige and (light and dark) blue, with the word "progress", "hope" or "change" below (and other words in some versions).

The image became one of the most widely recognized symbols of Obama's campaign message, spawning many variations and imitations, including some commissioned by the Obama campaign.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_%22Hope%22_poster

Bold added by me.


There have been parodies of the poster but not of the kind that Bernie would want to be associated with. But I see it's too late for that now.

Your argument here that this poster isn't necessarily associated with Obama is laughable. Check the meaning of ICONIC.

Your many argumentative in-your-face posts is what turns me off to Bernie supporters and why I come to DU less nowadays. Too many of you bully dedicated Dems who just aren't ready to jump on a bandwagon filled with much hysteria. Showing respect would at least encourage someone to check out the Bernie posts which have seemed to take over DU.



ibegurpard

(16,685 posts)
117. respect is given where it is offered
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 05:29 PM
Aug 2015

The Hillary fanatics have been nothing but disdainful, condescending, and vile from the beginning. Then when called out they whine. It's nauseating.

sunnystarr

(2,638 posts)
128. Must be I missed those posts
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 05:49 PM
Aug 2015

cause they were just drowned out with Bernie posts. And I look for posts that aren't Bernie posts all the time which is a time consuming task indeed.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
147. Both the on topic comments and the off topic comments in your post are as short on facts as
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 08:58 PM
Aug 2015

Last edited Wed Aug 19, 2015, 09:39 PM - Edit history (1)

they are long on ad homs.

First, I never said the poster was not associated with Obama. I know what iconic means. However, you might want to look up the word "mantra."

Democrat Since Birth's post referred to a mantra, which is a word or a sound, not an image. I tried to ask him if he meant hope and he would not reply. Given the wording he chose, I said the word "hope" did not belong to anyone; and nothing about that comment is wrong.

Then he said the poster was seminal. A synonym for "seminal" is original. However, Fairey stole the idea and then destroyed the evidence that he had done that, as the wikipedia article you quoted clearly says. So I replied to Democrat Since Birth that the poster was not seminal, but copyright infringement, also a correct statement. Moreover, both before and after the 2008 campaign, the poster has been associated with many things other than Obama. However, I never said the image was not associated with Obama. You made that up.

The claim of Democrat Since Birth that a use of the poster as an attempt at mild humor at this point, when it has been used and parodied for so many things, defecates on Obama is what is over the top. If you want to say it's not funny, fine. If you want to say it defecates on Obama, good grief.

Your post is full of ad homs about me and Bernie's supporters, and Democrat Since Birth signed his post as "not my friend." Why? Because I disagreed with his view of the OP? My posts to him did nothing similar. Yet you claim I am the one who posted disrespectfully. Whatever.

As far as Bernie posts outnumbering Hillary posts in general, the great majority of posters on this site support Bernie, so nothing about that is unusual. If that bothers you, you may want to stay closer to the Hillary Group or the Barack Obama Group or the Hillary Mojo Board the owner of this site started for fans of Hillary.

As far as my Bernie posts in particular, I have been spending by far the greatest majority of my time posting in the Bernie Group or the Populist Group, not in this forum, where most of the arguments occur. If you don't want to see me posting about Bernie in those groups, just stay out of them. I wasn't the one to re-open this particular argument hours after Democrat Since Birth and I ended it, either. You picked this argument with me with a post full of inaccuracies. If you think one reply from me to you is out of order under those circumstances, you're wrong. Nor will I continue this particular argument with you. Let's see what you do, though.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
30. I think the "first black president" has nothing to do with it
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 12:15 PM
Aug 2015

It has everything to do with the current president who ran on a campaign of Hope and Change, but who some did not go far enough in the direction of change.

Agree or disagree with the premise, fine. But the racial genetics of President Obama have nothing to do with this.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
32. You most certainly are. And I am allowed to disagree with you. And I stated my point...
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 12:20 PM
Aug 2015

and you stated yours.

America. What a Country!

merrily

(45,251 posts)
44. See Reply 38. Something obviously intended as mild humor and not aimed at Obama
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 12:46 PM
Aug 2015

at all is, in his mind, defecating on the first African American President of the United States.

OMG!

LiberalLovinLug

(14,175 posts)
99. Oh please, Obama could have been red, yellow, green or white
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 02:49 PM
Aug 2015

Of course it is a jab at Obama and his record! I totally agree that the posters' look and the word hope obviously reflects that iconic poster.

BUT... You must be aware that there is a large segment, especially from the left of the party, that has been disappointed with the current President's positions and the strong opinion that he has been anything but a champion for "hope and change" in the status quo when it comes to financial reform, TPP, wiretapping, drones, etc.. Obama opened himself up for this kind of satire, by his actions, not because of his skin colour.

If you play the race card too many times the cards get a little dog eared and worn out don't you think?

sunnystarr

(2,638 posts)
126. Would you please look at the Bush
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 05:45 PM
Aug 2015

accomplishments over 8 years, even the Clinton accomplishments over those 8 years. Then look at Obama's accomplishments. That is hope and change! Radical changes just don't happen overnight.

The fact that so much was accomplished with open war declared by the Rs against anything he wanted is amazing. His plans for immigration, jobs, and more that I just can't think of right now and don't have time to look up never made it on the House floor.

I really don't understand how you critics think he could singlehandedly get everything he wanted passed. He worked with what he had and accomplished much. He's done more than I've seen any president in my lifetime from Nixon to now.

It reminds me of kids who didn't get all they wanted so they didn't appreciate all they did get.

potone

(1,701 posts)
87. Whether or not the intention is racist, it can only be viewed as a cheap slam at Obama.
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 02:19 PM
Aug 2015

It suggests, at the least, that he was either lying or cynical in his campaign. I have been disappointed in some of his decisions, but let us remember the state the country was in when he came into office. He faced disasters everywhere he looked and had NO help from Republicans in trying to rescue the economy, salvage our foreign policy and extricate us from the Iraq war, which we were losing. It is easy to forget just how bad things were when Bush left office.

ibegurpard

(16,685 posts)
35. Oh cut the crap
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 12:30 PM
Aug 2015

Attributing every criticism of Obama to racism is a cowardly tactic that enures people to actual racism and it needs to stop now.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
42. What criticism?
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 12:45 PM
Aug 2015
But it's so much easier than addressing the criticism! (nt)



If I walk up to a stranger, tell him or her "you are full of shit" , it's not as if I am giving that person a lot to rebut.



merrily

(45,251 posts)
54. I read the criticism as being against politicians in general, maybe Hillary's brand new
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 12:56 PM
Aug 2015

populism. I did not see it as aimed at Obama AT ALL, let alone as defecating on the first African American President of the USA.

An attempt at mild humor. My God!

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
40. I stand by my assertion.
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 12:39 PM
Aug 2015

And calling somebody a 'coward' over the internet is tantamount to calling somebody a 'coward' over the telephone. Feel free to infer from that what you will.




DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
57. I stand by my assertion ...
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 01:02 PM
Aug 2015
your assertion is bullshit...And I'd happily say it to your face


I don't want to run afoul of the terms of service but if you have anything "you want to say to my face" I will be more than happy to provide you with that opportunity.

ibegurpard

(16,685 posts)
76. of course you do
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 02:05 PM
Aug 2015

You will go down with the racist dog whistle ship that helped sink Hillary in 08 as well. I know it looked good on paper.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
113. I swear on my dead mom that what I am about to say is true.
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 05:13 PM
Aug 2015
You will go down with the racist dog whistle ship that helped sink Hillary in 08 as well. I know it looked good on paper.


I swear on my dead mom that what I am about to say is true.

Unlike some other posters on this board I didn't call members of Black Lives Matter "race naggers".

Unlike some other posters on this board I didn't suggest supporters of another candidate were "F-Ing R'tards".

Unlike some other posters on this board I didn't say the two African American women who went up on the dais when Senator Sanders was speaking "were crazier than shit house rats".

Unlike some other posters on this board I didn't suggest blacks should worry about black on black crime to dismiss the concerns of Black Lives Matter.

I would tell you what you can do with your dog whistle but that would earn me a hide even though your calumnies against me go unaddressed.

Oh, and nice deflection...I'll give it a 7.


ibegurpard

(16,685 posts)
120. you can do the same with your calumnies
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 05:31 PM
Aug 2015

And let Hillary know her racist dog-whistle campaign from 08 in reverse isn't going to work any better this time.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
125. Why don't you cite all my calumnies...
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 05:44 PM
Aug 2015

you can do the same with your calumnies


My old man only had a ninth grade education. He was literally emancipated at fifteen years old when he moved out of his parents home to work as a stevedore but I digress...He taught me to treat everybody with respect.

If I trafficked in racism, misogyny, homophobia, xenophobia, et cetera i would be dishonoring his memory...

There's an autosearch feature. Certainly you can find evidence of me engaging in such odious behavior if such behavior exists.



In the absence of such evidence I would ask that you withdraw your libelous statements against me but that would require at the least, a modicum of character.


ibegurpard

(16,685 posts)
130. your odious behavior is right here
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 05:54 PM
Aug 2015

Minimizing actual racism by trying to paint something like this as racism to try and score political points. You and your ilk have been doing it for months and it's disgusting. And I would expect no less from the same campaign that tried to use the racist dog whistle against Obama in 08. I'm not sure which is a sadder prospect... whether you're sincere with this and cant even recognize it or you're just cynically using it.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
133. Projection
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 06:02 PM
Aug 2015
your odious behavior is right here Minimizing actual racism by trying to paint something like this as racism to try and score political points. You and your ilk have been doing it for months and it's disgusting. And I would expect no less from the same campaign that tried to use the racist dog whistle against Obama in 08. I'm not sure which is a sadder prospect... whether you're sincere with this and cant even recognize it or you're just cynically using it.


Barack Obama was turned into a punch line and "Hope and Change was characterized as "bullshit" in the first post and I took umbrage as is my right.


I would literally rather be dropped out of an airplane from twenty thousand feet and left for the buzzards then to withdraw one word I wrote in this thread.

And interesting that you didn't actually refute anything I have written, how could you?


Bobbie Jo

(14,341 posts)
139. You left out
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 07:41 PM
Aug 2015

"thugs" "inhuman" "stupid" "idiots" and "animals"

But by all means, let's focus on "actual racism."


The fact that some of these people are still here astounds me, truly.


 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
50. The discussion you had above,
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 12:49 PM
Aug 2015

Where the poster feigned ignorance and used the concept of deflection, is all anyone needs to read to see your assertion is correct. It's simple on this one. Know them by their words.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
52. Matthew 7:16
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 12:51 PM
Aug 2015
By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?

George II

(67,782 posts)
123. "Cowardly"? What is cowardly about her comment? You may not agree with it but characterizing it...
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 05:39 PM
Aug 2015

....is out of line and, from my perspective, lacking an explanation of our use of the word, totally incorrect.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
84. Becuase its become something now changed a few times...
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 02:16 PM
Aug 2015






Trust me, the Google is amazing and you will see this use of the Farley poster by many, many, many different causes. This one is actually quite late to the party.

frylock

(34,825 posts)
111. I'll just say it for you. You think it's racist.
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 05:04 PM
Aug 2015

The problem is that if you actually had the courage to say it, you'd be asked to explain it, and you can't fucking do that.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
114. courage...
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 05:23 PM
Aug 2015
I'll just say it for you. You think it's racist. The problem is that if you actually had the courage to say it, you'd be asked to explain it, and you can't fucking do that.


Making a mockery of Hope and Change and suggesting it's bullshit is strg8 up racist.

Oh, and courage is a funny thing to talk about from the anonymity of an internet connection.

frylock

(34,825 posts)
119. Hope and Change made a mockery of its own damn self..
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 05:31 PM
Aug 2015

in the interest of full disclosure, I actually have a limited release numbered version of the iconic HOPE poster. Paid like $60 for it during one of Shep's poster drops. These posters where selling for as high as $2000 at one point, but I held onto mine because I actually believed that crap.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
121. That's your opinion...
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 05:34 PM
Aug 2015

Barack Obama has been the most consequential and transformational president since Lyndon Johnson and deserves a lot better than be turned into some ersatz punch line.

ibegurpard

(16,685 posts)
124. Yes for Republican policy
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 05:39 PM
Aug 2015

Free trade fetishists, Heritage Foundation healthcare, and education privatization. Not my Democratic Party and I suspect Johnson would agree.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
127. Barack Obama is the culmination of Abraham Lincoln and Lyndon Johnson's work.
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 05:47 PM
Aug 2015
Yes for Republican policyFree trade fetishists, Heritage Foundation healthcare, and education privatization. Not my Democratic Party and I suspect Johnson would agree.



Barack Obama's presidency is the culmination of Abraham Lincoln and Lyndon Johnson's work. They both would be pleased and proud.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
134. Thanks to Obama I get Medicaid which was previously unavailable to single indigent adults
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 06:09 PM
Aug 2015

Thanks to President Obama I and 15,000,000 other Americans now get Medicaid which was previously unavailable to single indigent adults and others that live below the poverty line.

And eleven million more get subsidies to buy insurance because of the Affordable Care Act...

It's far from perfect but it has made more difference in poor and struggling people's lives than a million speeches about the one percent that do nothing but provide people with a cheap emotional release.

ibegurpard

(16,685 posts)
122. this bullshit
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 05:36 PM
Aug 2015

Causes people to close their ears and eyes to true racism. Congratulations on lessening the real problems for political gain. Disgusting.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
129. In real life
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 05:53 PM
Aug 2015
this bullshit Causes people to close their ears and eyes to true racism. Congratulations on lessening the real problems for political gain. Disgusting.



If I wasn't concerned about a hide I would say in the proverbial New York minute who I think the people that want to "close their ears and eyes to true racism" are...

God as my witness I would have no compunction about saying who I think those people are in real life and I should be struck down with lightning if I am lying.

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
141. I doubt that being an accepted message from BS. After all, he is running on the same basis, that is,
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 08:18 PM
Aug 2015
hope to change the status quo developing in this country. The mocking of Obama's 'hope and change' meme began with Sarah Palin who employed racist dog whistles all through her campaign in 2008.

It's been offensive to many for a long time, and only defines the mocker. I made a post about this kind of maliciousness:

Joy strengthens the heart of the weary, the ones whose purpose is loving.


Just remember that people out to hurt others can gain nothing of value from their actions, all they can do is create misery.

Misery is easy to create. It's the tool of the maliciously lazy.

Happiness takes work, it is the reward for a life being well lived.

Make the choice to not let others steal your hard earned joy.

Take the negative energy they try to fill you with and create something beautiful.

~ Anonymous

This is the fruit of love, to look at the eyes of this girl and others in a refugee camp that Obama visited. These people are the victims of war and exploitation of the most brutal kind ever known, yet media gives them scant attention, as the 1% are not affected by it

The amount of murderous violence in our land alone that this man has had to see and feel and comfort, is staggering. Confronting and healing evil in a world of hatred and violence, is part of Obama's complex task in a world in which many insist he fail. He is planting seeds of consciousness in all he does that is lauded or condemned. This is the reality of the world we live in.

It is not a job for the faint of heart, and the maliciously lazy who see their victory in tearing down the work and the workers are not going to do it. Look into those angel eyes meeting his, and weep for those whose lives deserve love:



http://www.democraticunderground.com/110211344#post2

Vanity is unworthy and inappropriate in the face of so much suffering.

eridani

(51,907 posts)
150. And this time you are supporting the 2007 candidate of "harworking people, white people"
Thu Aug 20, 2015, 06:16 AM
Aug 2015

Serious irony there.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
2. BLM makes you feel uncomfortable and this doesn't.
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 11:43 AM
Aug 2015

The mask is all the way off now. Outside of the Republican Party, I don't think I have witnessed such an overall offensive group of people.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
7. If posting on Democratic Underground makes you a progressive...
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 11:47 AM
Aug 2015

If posting on Democratic Underground makes you a progressive then I am LeBron James because I post on ESPN.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
55. I see no offense in it.
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 12:58 PM
Aug 2015

It's completely different than the op. I get you are angling at something but you might want to rethink it. In 08 I was hoping Obama was in line with my beliefs. Nothing offensive at all about it. In the op, we have an image of a guy with very few accomplishments calling the first black President who played a huge role in bringing the uninsured down to around ten percent a bullshitter. Then again, Sanders himself would never be so stupid as to respect this image. He is simply smarter and better than this.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
88. No angle, just trying to understand.
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 02:20 PM
Aug 2015
calling the first black President who played a huge role in bringing the uninsured down to around ten percent a bullshitter.

Why is the OP's poster inherently about criticising Obama, but the poster I linked not? Yes, it draws an obvious parallel due to being the same format, but both do. And the one I linked has explicit criticism of Obama in it.

Why must it be Obama who is the source of the bullshit, and not something else? Like our modern political system?

Why isn't the poster I linked saying Obama failed at hope, so now a white guy has to deliver it?
 

ieoeja

(9,748 posts)
81. BLM is doing it wrong. Which is why we should only take to White people about this.
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 02:11 PM
Aug 2015

According to Hillary Clinton, that is.

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
148. From the interview, the direction the talk was talking is that it is a white problem.
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 09:10 PM
Aug 2015

Which is true, and she jumped straight to that solution. She is right as white people aredoing the violence to black people, and the BLM people agreed with that.

There is no need for a white person to tell black people how to manage their protests, and she didn't chide them as others have. White people need to be confronted to manage their knee jerk response to black protest. They need to listen, truly listen, take a bow and learn from black people how much their white responsibility and power is in this situation. As the man said AAs are helpless to stop white violence.

The last time I saw white people stopping white violence by meeeting it with force, was by JFK and RFK who were struck down in their prime to the grief of black and white Americans:

James Howard Meredith (born June 25, 1933) is an American civil rights movement figure, a writer, and a political adviser. In 1962, he was the first African-American student admitted to the segregated University of Mississippi,[1] an event that was a flashpoint in the American civil rights movement.

Motivated by President John F. Kennedy's inaugural address, Meredith decided to exercise his constitutional rights and apply to the University of Mississippi.[2] His goal was to put pressure on the Kennedy administration to enforce civil rights for African Americans...


Meredith won in court, but the Governor still fought it, and RFK talked him into following the law and admitting him. Federal law, not state law.

Some white students and segregationists, many who had driven in for the event, protested his enrollment by rioting on the Oxford campus.

Robert Kennedy called in 500 U.S. Marshals to take control, who were supported by the 70th Army Engineer Combat Battalion from Ft Campbell, Kentucky. They created a tent camp and kitchen for the US Marshals.

To bolster law enforcement, President John F. Kennedy sent in U.S. Army troops from the 2nd Infantry Division from Ft. Benning, GA under the command of Maj. Gen Charles Billingslea and military police from the 503rd Military Police Battalion, and called in troops from the Mississippi Army National Guard.[13]

Gen. Bllingslea's staff car was mobbed and set on fire at the entrance to the university gate. General Billingslea, the Deputy Commanding General, John Corley, and aide, Capt Harold Lyon, were trapped inside the burning car but managed to force the car door open and had to crawl 200 yards into the gate to the University Lyceum Building while someone was shooting at them and continued to shoot the windows out, though the Army never returned fire.

Gen Billingslea had established a series of escalating secret code words for issuing ammunition down to the platoons with another one for issuing it to squads, and a third one for loading, none of which could take place without the General himself, confirming the secret codes.

In the violent clash, two people died, including the French journalist Paul Guihard,[7] on assignment for the London Daily Sketch. He was found dead behind the Lyceum building with a gunshot wound to the back.

One hundred-sixty US Marshals, one-third of the group, were injured in the melee, and 40 soldiers and National Guardsmen were wounded.[7][1[13]



US Army trucks loaded with steel-helmeted US Marshals roll across the University of Mississippi campus on October 3, 1962.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Meredith

During this time, he was advised by Medgar Evers, a civil rights leader.

Evers was also inspired by Kennedy and killed the same day he came home to tell his family the good news he had heard about his decision. Terrorists gunned him down in his front yard in view of his wife and children.

In the early morning of June 12, 1963, just hours after President John F. Kennedy's speech on national television in support of civil rights, Evers pulled into his driveway after returning from a meeting with NAACP lawyers. Emerging from his car and carrying NAACP T-shirts that read "Jim Crow Must Go," Evers was struck in the back with a bullet fired from an Enfield 1917 rifle; the bullet ripped through his heart. He staggered 9 meters (30 feet) before collapsing.

He was taken to the local hospital in Jackson where he was initially refused entry because of his color, until it was explained who he was; he died in the hospital.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medgar_Evers#Assassination

All these leaders were attacked repeatedly and denied the most basic of human rights. Meredith was a very intelligent, successful man with his own strong views shown at the link. The terrorists have not stopped hating:

In 2014, vandals linked to the Sigma Phi Epsilon fraternity vandalized Meredith's honorary University of Mississippi campus statue by putting a noose around its neck and draping it with a controversial former Georgia state flag. In response, he said "that just clearly shows that we’re not training our children like the Bible says. They don’t know right and wrong, good and bad and how to apply it to life."[1]

Our current crop of Tenthers, Teaterrorists and Libertarians would have called what the Kennedys and the military did the action of a police state.

We have not seen that kind of response since then with white people taking action against violent white people. It is a white problem. The only common factor in all these cases are AAs just asking to be treated as the amended Constitution demands they be.

 

tk2kewl

(18,133 posts)
25. criticism is not mockery
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 12:03 PM
Aug 2015

Quote from the artist:

"Obama has had a really tough time, but there have been a lot of things that he's compromised on that I never would have expected. I mean, drones and domestic spying are the last things I would have thought he'd support." http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/interviews/a35288/shepard-fairey-street-art-obama-hope-poster/

and Mr. Fairy's Occupy poster (is this mocking?):

uponit7771

(90,347 posts)
66. Baseless winger criticism is a waste of time, that's what most of the Hillary and Obama criticism is
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 01:33 PM
Aug 2015

... and it hasn't changed much

 

tk2kewl

(18,133 posts)
89. do you think Fairy's criticism of Obama is baseless?
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 02:21 PM
Aug 2015

Last edited Wed Aug 19, 2015, 03:44 PM - Edit history (2)

Or the poster (picture) in the op? Both? Neither?

Spazito

(50,404 posts)
10. A complete lack of creativity being displayed...
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 11:51 AM
Aug 2015

The "I'm with the fringe" one is wonderfully creative, done with humor while making a point. This one has none of those traits, it's the opposite.

I see, however, you want it.

Spazito

(50,404 posts)
20. Yes, I know, a staunch Senator Sanders supporter I believe...
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 11:59 AM
Aug 2015

with originality, creativity and humor. RIP Jackpine Radical.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
49. I don't see it as crap, but if it were, he is certainly not alone in being on a roll of crap posts.
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 12:48 PM
Aug 2015

Not even on this thread alone.

DirkGently

(12,151 posts)
58. Wow. The Fairey poster meme is suddenly racist?
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 01:20 PM
Aug 2015

After a trillion takes on that design, it's now a sign of "masked" racism to make any use of it now?

It's cute and funny. It's not particularly mocking of Obama, but you know what? THAT'S OKAY. PEOPLE CAN MOCK LEADERS.

Even the ones we like.

Nice going as usual WillyT.

(Let's give the anti-Sanders race-baiting a rest for a day or two maybe?)


DirkGently

(12,151 posts)
74. The only evidence for which you offer is this "but" of yours?
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 02:00 PM
Aug 2015

I recall, as an Obama supporter, the Hillary folks on DU deriding Obama as an unelectable, too-liberal fringe candidate.

Which is the same thing the same people are now saying about Sanders.

Conserva-dems supported Hillary then, and they support her now. Which is totally fine, but it doesn't make the liberals of all people racist or sexist or whatever nonsense is being proposed here.

DirkGently

(12,151 posts)
83. So we agree conservative Dems backed HRC last time as well?
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 02:14 PM
Aug 2015

The differential between Clinton and Sanders is left / right.

It's not black / white or man / woman or whatever weird ugliness a few unfortunately opportunistically minded people would like to turn it into.

Liberals consistently prefer liberals. When Obama and HRC were head-to-head, they largely sided with Obama, while conservative-leaning Dems preferred Hillary.

It's no different today. Conservative Dems are circling around Hillary; liberals again prefer the more liberal candidate.

That's how these discussions are supposed to go. It does not require unreasoning hatred on anyone's part to prefer Dems more aligned with their own principles.


DirkGently

(12,151 posts)
100. Anyone and everyone doing that should STOP.
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 02:53 PM
Aug 2015

All the Democratic candidates have been affirmatively pro-civil rights, as Dems tend to be, from the start, and have also shown themselves open to hearing and meeting and working with activists. I would say Sanders has been the best, but then I give weight to his decades of civil rights activism, which no one else is under any obligation to agree with.

Not all activists are going to like all Dems. That's fine. No one is entitled to anyone's support. There may be yelling. Also fine.

But if we allow conservatives of any stripe to gin up racial strife among Democrats, based on "reactions on the Internet," and the underlying bullshit notion that liberals are the "real problem" somehow, we are all idiots.

And we're not. I think.

We'll see.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
137. What is a Conservative Dem?
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 07:11 PM
Aug 2015

I am pro choice
-pro affirmative action
-pro immigration reform
-pro health care for all
-pro minimum wage
-pro paid leave
-pro robust safety net
-making glbtq citizens a protected class under the law
-reducing student debt and making college more accessible for starters

uponit7771

(90,347 posts)
145. Yeah you're right the animus towards Obama is all in folks minds. POSUCS post don't get > 200 recs..
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 08:43 PM
Aug 2015

...and follow up post don't get close :rolleyes:

Fawke Em

(11,366 posts)
142. Uh.. no.
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 08:36 PM
Aug 2015

I voted for Obama four times: in each primary and each general.

You know who I wasn't a fan of and am still not? Hillary.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
53. Obama and Sanders aren't on the same playing field.
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 12:52 PM
Aug 2015

Obama has excellent accomplishments at the highest level of government. I understand wanting to desperately attach yourself to him in any way but this is simply offensive.

 

SonderWoman

(1,169 posts)
59. Obama passing healthcare is a greater accomplishment than....
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 01:24 PM
Aug 2015

Anything Bernie has ever done in 30 years.

 

OnyxCollie

(9,958 posts)
82. How 'bout Obama passing the indefinite detention of US citizens w/o a trial?
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 02:14 PM
Aug 2015

Or the Holder doctrine?

These are Obama's "accomplishments," as well.

 

OnyxCollie

(9,958 posts)
149. When the executive can execute a US citizen w/o a trial
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 09:30 PM
Aug 2015

or detain a US citizen indefinitely, what worse can be done?

That's dictatorial territory there.

Compared to that, Bernie's votes have little impact.

ibegurpard

(16,685 posts)
103. what healthcare?
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 03:00 PM
Aug 2015

Oh you mean the great insurance company public funding transfer with a couple progressive provisions thrown in act of 2010? Yeah quite an achievement for a Democrat to push through Republican "healthcare reform."

uponit7771

(90,347 posts)
61. Yeap, I've been saying for weeks that at the root of the Bernie camp is anti Obama and anti...
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 01:29 PM
Aug 2015

... Hillary fuck policy or positions or the fact that not one of the candidates can throw a stone.

 

John Poet

(2,510 posts)
91. Why not just "NO BULLSHIT"?
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 02:32 PM
Aug 2015

That makes a great caption all on its own. The "Hope" reference is unnecessary.

JackInGreen

(2,975 posts)
106. After reading through the comments
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 04:11 PM
Aug 2015

It's apparent that so many of our contingent have lost their sense of humor and are looking for any reason to be outraged.
I wonder what kind of response I'd get for posting my "sweet sweet hillary tears" t-shirt....

emulatorloo

(44,156 posts)
108. You aren't doing Bernie any favors by alienating Obama voters.
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 04:25 PM
Aug 2015

Amusing or not, it is bad strategy, and am pretty sure Bernie would not be thrilled to be associated with it.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
110. Harvey Milk on hope:
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 05:03 PM
Aug 2015

"After Dade County, I walked among the angry and the frustrated night after night and I looked at their faces. And in San Francisco, three days before Gay Pride Day, a person was killed just because he was gay. And that night, I walked among the sad and the frustrated at City Hall in San Francisco and later that night as they lit candles on Castro Street and stood in silence, reaching out for some symbolic thing that would give them hope. These were strong people, whose faces I knew from the shop, the streets, meetings and people who I never saw before but I knew. They were strong, but even they needed hope.

And the young gay people in the Altoona, Pennsylvanias and the Richmond, Minnesotas who are coming out and hear Anita Bryant on television and her story. The only thing they have to look forward to is hope. And you have to give them hope. Hope for a better world, hope for a better tomorrow, hope for a better place to come to if the pressures at home are too great. Hope that all will be all right. Without hope, not only gays, but the blacks, the seniors, the handicapped, the us'es, the us'es will give up. And you and you and you, you have to give people hope."

Discuss.

Babel_17

(5,400 posts)
151. It's ironic
Thu Aug 20, 2015, 09:52 AM
Aug 2015

In this case it's about giving a nod, and a tip of the hat, to the ideals behind the Hope for change, and to say that the person wearing this logo is supporting the "no bullshit" candidate.

The presumption being that this candidate won't distance himself from his campaign platform.

As far as politics go, it's pretty mild. If someone made it there might be some sales, humor is a matter of taste, but I'd prefer something more classic, with a more enduring message and iconic imagery*.

Wasn't going to reply or rec but given what's been sent your way I thought I should.

*I'm a working class person, give me a working class shirt! Something strong and direct, a shirt built to last, and with colors that won't run.



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