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Thu Aug 6, 2015, 01:28 PM

The Penny Drops...

I admit, sometimes it takes me a while to figure things out. I do not doubt that many folks are already way ahead of me on this one, but I do get there eventually.

See, the thing is, I want a Democrat to win the next Presidential election. I haven't made up my mind which one yet-- there are things I like and dislike about most of them. But every one of them is so exponentially better than anyone running for the GOP nomination that I'm fairly sure they'd do a lot better as President.

So I look at the records of each Dem candidate, try to plow through the hype and the spin, look at what others like and dislike, and try to make up my mind how to order my preferences and express my support. And the thing that kept baffling me was not the people pointing out the manifold excellencies of their own preferred candidates. Nor was it those who compared their preferred candidates to other Dem candidates in explaining why they liked them better. That's pretty standard primary fare, and while it's not always helpful, it's generally not doing any harm in terms of the most important thing: Keep the White House out of GOPie hands for another 4-8 years.

No, the thing that kept baffling me was the folks who, rather than explaining why they like their preferred candidate, or even why they prefer them over other candidates, seem to focus primarily on slagging off other Dem candidates.

Finally, the penny dropped: They don't have the same agenda I do.

They don't see the need to keep the White House, with all its associated Supreme Court nominations, Cabinet posts, Federal budget preparation responsibilities, diplomatic responsibilities, and other functions, out of the hands of wackjob puppets for selfish, mindlessly destructive Oligarchs. At least, that's not the most critical priority, to them.

They're focused, rather, on the short-term, myopic, desperately imporant battle to be CORRECT about their very specific policy agendas. And while those agendas actually do overlap greatly with my own, their individual, micro-level focus places so much more importance on those specific policy positions than on the broader goal of keeping the White House out of GOPpie control, they're willing to damage that broader goal in the pursuit of short-term victory.

Short-term victory for policy positions I generally agree with.

So, why does it disturb me so much?

Maybe it's because I've seen a good many electoral cycles during my life. And because I've got a keen interest in history and the evolution of social policy and human progress. And so I've seen, far too many times, the price paid by short-term victory for profound policy changes, as they're subjected to distortion and conflict and pushback and subversion from within. All this, while structural and institutional tools are quietly subsumed into the Oligarchic machine and painfully-achieved progress is rolled back using the unspectacular levers and wires embedded in the machine.

So I've come to a tentative working hypothesis about those who concentrate on slagging off "the other" candidates. They're either idealistic but in fundamental disagreement with me about methodology, or they're actively and knowingly working to damage my key goal of keeping the White House out of GOPpie hands from 2017-2021 or 2025.

And if you're someone who falls in the first category, may I respectfully ask you to perform a thought experiment?

Because if you are in that first category, you're my friend, you're someone I agree with on many things, and we have a common overarching goal to advance human evolution and social progress. So, please, consider this thought experiment:

You carry on slagging off any candidate that isn't yours. And, because you're such a vigorous and effective advocate, and you find and/or frame the information you're using as negatively and damagingly as possible, a lot of it *sticks* to those other, no-good, very bad, horrible not-your-candidates who are, let's face it, tools of Bad People and not in any way as good as your candidate. You damage them.

But-- you still do not manage to get your Highly Superior Candidate nominated.

In fact, one of those now-damaged candidates gets nominated, dragging the mud you and everyone else who's seen them for The Scum They Are has tied to them, into the ring with them, to face the GOP's best shot. A best shot that's so much lower and scummier than they are, it seems impossible that anyone could look at them without retching. But.... they have the Six-Headed Big Media Hydra behind them. And the Oligarch's unlimited spending purse. And the traditional GOPpie willingness to fight dirtier than anyone else.

What are the GOPpie operatives going to reach for, first?

Whadda you think?

Because I think that what the GOPpie operatives are gonna reach for first, is the damage already inflicted, during the primary, by other Democrats. "Hey, look! Even the libtards know what a vile tool this candidate is!"

So, here's the pitch: I'm not asking anyone to refrain from pointing out what they disagree with on any candidate. You think Candidate A's vote on this particular issue was terrible and reflects different priorities than you embrace? Don't be shy about that. It's well within the latitude of primary contention.

But... passing on sleazy rumors? Using "alleged" dirt dug up and distributed by GOPpie operatives? Personal attacks about who you assume anyone's in metaphorical policy debt to? Please, just think twice, or three times, before going there, okay?

Yes, it's fine to point out that Candidate B has a whole lotta campaign contributions from people you dislike or disagree with. But don't automatically assume that means that Candidate B is the willing shilling tool of scum, because if there's any truth at all about electoral politics in America, it's that NO ONE stays bought all the time and forever. It's ALL horse trading, no one is simon-pure and every elected official must make hard compromises on some policy positions to achieve larger agendas.

Please consider my agenda, too: Whichever candidate we send to the ring against the clown who's managed to push the others outta the car, let's try to ensure they arrive with a strong, viable reservoir of popular support as well as money from the Oligarchs who will be hedging their bets, as always. Because yes, we want whoever it is to be indebted to popular support as much as possible.

beseechingly,
Bright

16 replies, 1804 views

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Response to TygrBright (Original post)

Thu Aug 6, 2015, 01:37 PM

1. And I hope a number of people read your thoughtful post.

I have to hope, actually, because I believe a certain amount of passion has been aroused, and passion is full of heat. Not necessarily light, but lots of heat.

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Response to TygrBright (Original post)

Thu Aug 6, 2015, 01:39 PM

2. There is nothing anyone here can say about Hillary, for example, that the GOP does nt already have,

 

ready and waiting and worse. They already hate her. So your concern is, IMO, unfounded.

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Response to TygrBright (Original post)

Thu Aug 6, 2015, 02:03 PM

3. Actually, no. My view is longer than yours.

You are concerned about a "long view" that is around 20 years.

I'm concerned about a "long view" that is around 50 years or more.

We have virtually no one attempting to represent "the people" anymore. That has lead to massive voter apathy that allows abuses to continue and the situation for "the people" to get worse and worse. We need to change that course, or it won't matter that the SCOTUS nominees are slightly better this time around.

People do not peacefully starve to death. We are creating more and more starvation and stratification. We need to stop that, or there will be violent revolution. And the results of that revolution are entirely unpredictable. We could end up wishing it was only as bad as Scalia.

We have to turn the course of our nation, not give platitudes about feeling bad about our course.

money from the Oligarchs who will be hedging their bets, as always. Because yes, we want whoever it is to be indebted to popular support as much as possible.

These two statements are utterly contradictory.

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Response to TygrBright (Original post)

Thu Aug 6, 2015, 02:41 PM

4. So you'll be voting for Bernie then?

 

Nice....

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Response to demwing (Reply #4)

Thu Aug 6, 2015, 03:44 PM

5. I think you missed the point of this thoughtful post.

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Response to murielm99 (Reply #5)

Thu Aug 6, 2015, 05:24 PM

12. I disagree that I missed the point

 

or that the post was more than superficially thoughtful.

"We should all get along" is fine, be not everyone here will agree to what degree we need to get along, and to what degree we need to fight for the future of our party and our country. Most importantly, what do good Democrats do when those two objectives are at odds.

If that means that some of us fall outside of the OP's "friend" list, so be it.


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Response to TygrBright (Original post)

Thu Aug 6, 2015, 03:56 PM

6. as well as money from the Oligarchs?

So we should embrace the cash of the oligarchs, and not expect them to want our candidate to tickle their taints in thanks.

Okey dokey.

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Response to TygrBright (Original post)

Thu Aug 6, 2015, 04:02 PM

7. "NO ONE stays bought all the time and forever." uh-huh. And some people

can't be bought.

I try to surround myself with people of integrity, and keep the losers out of my life, to the greatest degree possible. If someone is corrupt, they can't be trusted around me or my family.

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Response to TygrBright (Original post)

Thu Aug 6, 2015, 04:08 PM

8. wish I could rec this twice

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Response to TygrBright (Original post)

Thu Aug 6, 2015, 04:10 PM

9. Nice post and I agree. Unfortunately the way these discussions work

Is not much different than other media that want to get eyeballs. For some reason this species (perhaps many?) enjoy mud and storms rather than sunshine and rainbows. It may also be easier to point out a fault, or two, or thousands than to do the same with virtues.

Side-by-side comparisons on issues would be great. But who will frame the issues and analyze the positions?

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Response to TygrBright (Original post)

Thu Aug 6, 2015, 04:24 PM

10. Hillary's numbers in battleground states show her to be unelectable in a national election.

 

She is losing to all the top republicans in those states.

So, which group of supporters are the ones acting in the best interest of a Democratic party victory in the general election?

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Response to fbc (Reply #10)

Fri Aug 7, 2015, 07:54 AM

15. A few things there...

 

Those polls are all close. And after the focus is off the primaries, will swing our wayi believe.

And how is Bernie doing? No better, and usually worse. So what was your piint again?

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Response to TygrBright (Original post)

Thu Aug 6, 2015, 11:24 PM

13. That penny rolled into a drain

and is still rolling somewhere down the system.

Because you got it wrong.

Let me be clear:

I want to keep the White House, with all its associated Supreme Court nominations, Cabinet posts, Federal budget preparation responsibilities, diplomatic responsibilities, and other functions, out of the hands of wackjob puppets for selfish, mindlessly destructive Oligarchs, Republican OR DEMOCRAT. That's the most critical priority.

Neo-liberals support Oligarchy. I am not myopic, nor am I focused on the short term. If I were, I'd think this election was all that counted. I see clearly enough, both looking back at the patterns that have played out in my lifetime and before, and looking forward, to know that continuing to elect neo-liberals is a lose/lose situation.

As for your agenda? Trying to drum up popular support and money for a neo-liberal is asking the 99% to fall on their swords for you. I think it's a great idea to send a candidate to the GE that can generate enthusiasm and determination to bring people to the polls, including all of those independents, 3rd parties, and perpetual non-voters. I don't think a neo-liberal is that candidate.

I think if that is the goal, to generate wide-spread, enthusiastic support, the party should nominate someone who can bring it. And, quite frankly, whether anyone wants to acknowledge it or not, the invisible donkey in the room is this: that person is not neo-liberal Hillary Rodham Clinton, determined to triangulate her way to the wh.


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Response to TygrBright (Original post)

Fri Aug 7, 2015, 07:46 AM

14. I disagree with your premise that all the Dem candidates are "exponentially better" than ...

 

... the Republican candidates. All are better, yes, but some are only a little better.

For example, when a Dem candidate espouses Medicare for All and strenghtening and expanding Social Security, that's exponentially better.

When a Dem candidate fails to do that, it's impossible for him/her to be much better.

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Response to TygrBright (Original post)

Fri Aug 7, 2015, 09:31 AM

16. The solution is simple. Talk about ISSUES. Not one of those Corporate Bought Tools

people got to see last night WANTS to talk about issues, other than the usual fare they serve to their base but actually care nothing about.

But the American people do. And the American people overwhelmingly support Progressive policies.

Your last paragraph lost me since the whole reason WHY we have such a trainwreck of a government IS 'money from the Oligarchs'. Not one of those you saw last night would come close to being elected to anything, were it NOT for the Corporate Billions poured into buying elections.

For me and for an increasing number of voters, the most important issue of this campaign is to GET THE MONEY out of our electoral system.

I see only candidate who is tackling this horror which has so undermined our government for so long, and THAT is who I am supporting.

I will no longer look the other way from the most corrupting element that has overtaken our government and will work with the millions of other Americans to remove that poison from our system, and will not be quiet about it no matter how inconvenient it may be to demand that at least OUR party refuse to participate in this fraud for one more election.

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