2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumAnyone have any infomation on the Democratic Primary schedule for 2016?
Last edited Fri Jul 31, 2015, 01:27 PM - Edit history (1)
Our party primary was damaged in the '08 primaries by schedule jumping and pledge breaking.
Now that the DNC is headed by Debbie Wassermann-Schultz, what will the new primary schedule be?
Will Florida be slotted in before South Carolina and Nevada?
I lived in Michigan during the 08 primaries, and I, along with MOST rank and file
democrats, was AGAINST our state jumping the schedule, which ended up invalidating
our votes.
Wikipedia shows the same schedule as 08 being "tentative" for 2016.
I think this should be settled WELL in advance of the primaries this time around, so
no states are invalidated.
On edit: In case people have forgotten what happened in 08:
http://www.newsweek.com/florida-dems-jumping-their-primary-100407
LWolf
(46,179 posts)Debates, primary schedule...I'd like to see tptb take the primary seriously.
PassingFair
(22,434 posts)I wanna know!
fadedrose
(10,044 posts)They (her committed supporters) tried to give all of the invalid votes to HC but because of the protests, the Convention divided the delegate votes among all the candidates, even tho Obama and other candidates were not on our ballot - like why bother if the votes didn't count....and then they did.
Lucy moving the football, but Charlie got it this time.
PassingFair
(22,434 posts)Wassermann-Schultz didn't think following the schedule was
important then.
She should be up front on this issue!
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)PassingFair
(22,434 posts)snip> As of 13 July 2015, the tentative schedule for 2016 is as follows:[46][unreliable source?]
February
Monday, February 1: Iowa caucus
Tuesday, February 9: New Hampshire (open primary)
Saturday, February 20: South Carolina (open primary)
Tuesday, February 23: Nevada caucus
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)Note that the DNC did vote on this issue in Aug, 2014, see:
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/democrats-vote-2016-primary-calendar-plan
PassingFair
(22,434 posts)According to our DNC chair, Debbie Wassermann Schultz of Florida?
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)Dems Do Little to Alter 2016 Delegate Selection Rules
http://frontloading.blogspot.com/2014/05/dems-do-little-to-alter-2016-delegate.html
The Rules and Bylaws Committee still reserves the right to increase the penalty (Rule 20.C.5) or through its recommendation and an affirmative vote from the Democratic National Committee's Executive Committee to conduct a compliant party-run contest (Rule 21.C).
There is some lack of uniformity between the RNC penalties and the DNC penalties. However, that difference is more a reflection of the RNC more explicitly laying out the exact consequences of violation and the DNC allowing itself a bit more leeway in assessing an appropriate penalty should the rules be broken.
PassingFair
(22,434 posts)Havoc was unleashed in 08.
Why are we acting like nothing happened?
Originally, the idea was that the 3rd and 4th states would alternate.
They were not always to be South Carolina and Nevada.
PassingFair
(22,434 posts)There's PRECEDENCE!
frazzled
(18,402 posts)There's an amazing thing called Google. And states, not the DNC, chooses the dates of their primary elections.
Political parties do have rules.
February
Monday, February 1: Iowa caucus
Tuesday, February 9: New Hampshire (open primary)
Saturday, February 20: South Carolina (open primary)
Tuesday, February 23: Nevada caucus
March
Tuesday, March 1: Alabama (open primary); Arkansas (open primary); Colorado caucuses; Georgia (open primary); Massachusetts; Minnesota caucuses; Oklahoma; Tennessee (open primary); Texas (open primary); Vermont (open primary); Virginia (open primary);
Saturday, March 5: Louisiana; Nebraska (caucus)[47]
Tuesday, March 8: Mississippi (open primary); Michigan (open primary)
Tuesday, March 15: Florida; Illinois; Missouri (open primary); North Carolina (open primary); Ohio[48]
Tuesday, March 22: Arizona; Utah caucuses [49]
Saturday, March 26: Alaska caucuses;[50] Hawaii caucus
April
Tuesday, April 5: Wisconsin (open primary)
Tuesday, April 26: Maryland; Connecticut; Delaware; Pennsylvania; Rhode Island
May[edit]
Tuesday, May 3: Indiana
Tuesday, May 10: West Virginia
Tuesday, May 17: Kentucky; Oregon
June
Sunday, June 5: Puerto Rico
Tuesday, June 7: California; Montana; New Jersey; New Mexico; South Dakota
Tuesday, June 14: Washington, DC
July
July 2528: 2016 Democratic National Convention
States with no firm dates[edit]
Democrats Abroad[51]
New York Tuesday, April 19 (presumably)
North Dakota
Utah
Colorado Tuesday, March 1 (presumably)
Idaho
Kansas Saturday, March 5 (presumably)
Maine
Washington
Wyoming
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries,_2016
PassingFair
(22,434 posts)Why would anyone think it would be acceptable to her NOW?
frazzled
(18,402 posts)http://www.cbsnews.com/news/democratic-party-approves-2016-presidential-primary-schedule/
And no, this was not the 2008 schedule: back then, the Iowa, NH, SC, and Nevada primaries were in January, as they had been for some time. Now they begin in February
Soooo, if say Florida or Michigan decides it wants to have its primary in January, before Iowa or NH, it will probably be disapproved. But this is the currently approved schedule.
greatauntoftriplets
(175,771 posts)PassingFair
(22,434 posts)The current DNC chair was responsible for FLOUTING them.
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)Wasserman Schultz didn't become chair until 2011
(Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_National_Committee )
PassingFair
(22,434 posts)On the contrary. I think this will be the final straw that will break this ridiculous primary process and give impetus to create a regional primary process that respects diversity and the appropriate role that a variety of states should have. At the end of the day, there isn't anyone who can change the fact that we're the fourth-largest state, with 17 million people. It's kind of hard to impact our clout. There's no getting away from that. All the rules and foot-stamping in the world can't change the fact that Florida will be the most significant factor in who becomes president of the United States next November.
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)day.
PassingFair
(22,434 posts)But apparently the "rules" are OK this time.
According to the DNC Chair that said that they were "ridiculous"
before breaking them in 08.
PassingFair
(22,434 posts)Different dates.
It was the ORDER that mattered. Florida and Michigan will still be over a month out.
frazzled
(18,402 posts)Did you have a problem with it for the past 40 years?
I'm not crazy that Iowa and NH start the season. But it's a long tradition there, and that's partly why SC was moved up in more recent years.
But it's not like anything UNUSUAL is going on here.
PassingFair
(22,434 posts)Do did Carl and Sander Levin here in Michigan.
Why are they OK now, and RIDICULOUS then?
In 08, Dean said that the time to address these issues was BEFORE
the primary, not DURING the primary.
Why isn't Wassermann Schultz crying for an earlier Florida vote?
frazzled
(18,402 posts)But the rules are the rules. These have been the rules (NH and Iowa going before other states), for better or worse, for many many decades. I don't think either of those states is very representative of anything. But I also respect the system. You can't break the rules; you have to change them.
PassingFair
(22,434 posts)"You can't break the rules; you have to change them. "
Do you think she will uphold the rules in '16
if Bernie Sanders does well in Iowa and/or New Hampshire?
frazzled
(18,402 posts)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_Democratic_primary,_2008
Maybe you'll listen to Howard Dean, who was DNC Chair then, not Debbie Wasserman-Schultz. I'm not clear why you think she broke rules. Perhaps I'm just dense. So please explain if I'm wrong.
"The rules were set a year and a half ago. Florida and Michigan voted for them and then decided that they didn't need to abide by the rules. When you're in a contest you do need to abide by the rules," he said Thursday on CNN's "American Morning."
The national Democratic Party stripped Florida -- epicenter of the 2000 election debacle -- of its 210 national convention delegates as punishment for the state's decision to move its party primaries to January 29.
Michigan received the same treatment after moving its primary date to January as well, losing its 156 convention delegates.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/06/florida.michigan/
PassingFair
(22,434 posts)Here is the link to one of her interviews at the time.
http://www.newsweek.com/florida-dems-jumping-their-primary-100407
frazzled
(18,402 posts)and the state Democrats failed in their bid to get it changed.
So you're blaming DWS because she got interviewed about it? The article explains how the options were very limited. I think you're looking for a bogey-man (make that bogey-woman) when this was a general problem for Florida Democrats. Color me unimpressed.
PassingFair
(22,434 posts)Ha!
http://www.newsweek.com/florida-dems-jumping-their-primary-100407
snip> The Florida Democratic Party is in a defiant mood. Over the weekend it decided to press ahead with plans to hold its presidential primary on Jan. 29, in violation of Democratic National Committee rules that allow only Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire and South Carolina to hold contests before Feb. 5. As a result the DNC is expected to make good on its threat to strip Florida of its delegates at the party's nominating convention in August 2008. The state faces an additional punishment, too: the leading Democratic presidential contenders signed a pledge, promoted by the four early-voting states, not to campaign in Florida if the state stuck to the pushed-up date. Though Florida Democrats debated alternatives, such as holding a caucus or mail-in vote after Feb. 5, in the end they decided to hold firm. To find out why, NEWSWEEK's Arian Campo-Flores spoke with U.S. Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, a Democrat from Broward County. Excerpts: <unsnip
I don't think Wassermann-Schultz should BE the head of the DNC.
She CLEARLY doesn't care about the "rules".
I notice that Michigan and Florida have March dates.
How will this be different from the 08 fiasco?
brooklynite
(94,950 posts)PassingFair
(22,434 posts)...when she wanted Florida's invalid primary votes counted for Hillary.
I have no confidence that she will uphold ANY rules if they don't favor Hillary.
brooklynite
(94,950 posts)...and when she WAS DNC Chair, she violated which rules? I'm still confused.
PassingFair
(22,434 posts)All that mattered was counting the votes for Hillary.
I don't believe that she will uphold the rules now that she IS CHAIR if Bernie does well in Iowa
and New Hampshire because...."rules are counterproductive" to her aims.
Still confused?
brooklynite
(94,950 posts)...I'm still confused as to which "the rules" she's not going to uphold.
First, do you have any indication that Florida or any other State is going to attempt to jump the line this time?
Second, are you suggesting that she'll override the entire DNC in letting them (nb - I personally know the DNC member who ran the Rules Committee back in 2008; I don't think he'd cave to anyone)
Third, unless you're suggesting that she's somehow going to invalidate an actual vote count (a violation of State laws), I'm not clear how any of this allows her rig the deck for Sanders.
In any event, perhaps you should take this up with Bernie; I'm not aware that he's expressed any concerns about his ability to have a fair Primary process.
PassingFair
(22,434 posts)It happened in the last contested primary, and it can happen again.
It concerns me that the current head of the DNC advocated throwing
the rules out for Florida in 08.
You are totally confused if you think DWS will "rig the deck for Sanders".
fadedrose
(10,044 posts)to an old post I remembered posting:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026740185
http://www.uspresidentialelectionnews.com/2016-presidential-primary-schedule-calendar/
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)PassingFair
(22,434 posts)And the exact same order that caused so much trouble in 08.
brooklynite
(94,950 posts)Monday, February 1: Iowa caucus
Tuesday, February 9: New Hampshire primary
Saturday, February 20: South Carolina open primary
Tuesday, February 23: Nevada caucus
Beyond that, States can pretty much pick whichever date they want without DNC clearance.