Does anyone really think the GOP wouldn't hammer Bernie about being a socialist 24/7?

[DanTex]

If you think some email-server witch-hunt that nobody cares about is fodder for the GOP in the GE, you can't even imagine the kind of dirt that Sanders is going to be facing, if by some miracle he gets the nomination.

It would be a dream come true for GOP attack dogs. Here's a guy who actually says "I'm a socialist." And I have no idea what kind of socialist-ey activities he was part of when he was a young radical, but you can bet the GOP will find every single one of them and turn them into non-stop smear ads. It'll make swift-boating feel like a day at the spa.

So before going the "Hillary's got too much dirt" route, take a good hard no-rosy-glasses look at Bernie. Hillary has faced the full brunt of the GOP attack machine, and nothing they've tried has stuck. Bernie is virgin territory.

[daleanime]

1. And is anyone scared yet?

[leftofcool]

2. Not to mention other attacks on other things.

The GOP will have no problem bringing up out of wedlock children, more than one marriage and the rest of his family. Republicans have no scruples. Never have, never will.

[DanTex]

3. How about the honeymoon in communist Russia? I'm sure that will play great!

[virtualobserver]

45. even "communist Russia" is an ancient concept

The only people who care about that are hard core Republicans.

[MannyGoldstein]

4. It would be great advertising for Socialism

Americans know that they have been fed utter b******* for decades. I suspect their ears are a little more open now.

[fadedrose]

5. We already have socialism

Social Security and Medicare - Medicaid...

Highways and other building projects...Home mortgages backed by govt., some other stuff too.

[Sheepshank]

120. Yes we do....do you think ANY Republican admits that?

they will shred Bernie adn instill and irrational fear into almost 50% of the nation with the same type of talking points that Reagan did back when Medicare was his talking point. Governmnet take over, telling doctors when and where they could work and eventually telling the population who could go to school, who could go to college and where they could go, and the trades they are best suited for....yes, millions of people bought St Ronnie's words as gospel. The Republicans will be doing this all over again...x10

[TexasBushwhacker]

137. Fire and police departments, public schools,

county hospital districts. They are all funded by taxpayers because they benefits everyone, even if they don't benefit each person individually. I don't have kids, but I don't mind paying for public schools because our society is better off with an educated populace.

Even though I don't personally benefit from Social Security and Medicare right now, I hope to some day. The thought of the richest country in the world NOT taking care of their elderly and disabled is abhorrent.

Imagine having fire and police departments that were run as private, for profit businesses. That schools weren't paid for collectively, but that each family had to pay for their own children and no one else's.

We are socialists already in many ways. People are just afraid of the word because they associate it with communism. Democratic socialism has NOTHING to do with communism. It is about society, collectively, funding things that benefit the people who live in that society. THAT'S SOCIALISM.

[MrMickeysMom]

165. We ALSO socialize this -

1) "Too big to fail" financial institutions who pay bonuses to their hierarchy to steal our money.

2) The Pentagon Budget

3) The Military Budget

4) Profits from "2" and "3" to the Oil Companies

So, let's talk about the kind of socialism we need, not what feeds the 1%

[Xipe Totec]

6. That label has become as scary as a monster B movie from the 50's nt

[DanTex]

7. You sure about that? 52% of Americans wouldn't consider voting for a socialist.

The fact that you or I don't have a problem with it doesn't mean that the country as a whole won't.

[Xipe Totec]

18. We can argue opinions, or you can post a link to support your fears. nt

[DanTex]

31. Here's the poll.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/183713/socialist-presidential-candidates-least-appealing.aspx

Only 47% of Americans would vote for a socialist even if they were nominated by their party and were generally well-qualified. That's an awful big handicap to start out with.

[stevenleser]

54. Bernie loses somewhere between 38 and 45 states if nominated. Possibly even more.

He shows vulnerability in California, for instance, in head to head polls with the GOP hopefuls.

[virtualobserver]

105. more imaginary statistics

He has to beat Hillary first.....If he does........your numbers will look much different.

[stevenleser]

109. No, they won't. 50% of people in the US will not vote for a Socialist. That stat is out there.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/183713/socialist-presidential-candidates-least-appealing.aspx?utm_source=Politics&utm_medium=newsfeed&utm_campaign=tiles

So we can all extrapolate how badly Bernie would lose based on that. He starts in the hole and then some percentage of those folks who would consider it won't like him for whatever reason.

That adds up to a very bad general election result.

[virtualobserver]

125. that poll is unattached to Bernie, and it is not chiseled in granite.

time will tell

[1StrongBlackMan]

131. So Bernie is the Magic (Democratic) Socialist? n/t

[virtualobserver]

132. that poll is using the generic term- socialist

voters may or may not accept Bernie, but I think that they will decide to vote for him (or not) based on the impression that he makes when those voters hear him speak.

I don't think that he will be stopped by a label....especially one that has been misused and overused by the Republicans for so many years.

[1StrongBlackMan]

140. I think you are wishfully thinking ...

could you (or more than a few of the people you know) be persuaded to listen to someone with a republican or anarchist or klansman label, so that you/they can decide their vote?

[virtualobserver]

145. even a kompassionate klansman would be tough to accept

but seriously, anarchist and klansman are terms that are many orders of magnitude more objectionable.

Republican?......It isn't the label that turns me off....just every word that comes out of their mouths.

It isn't that I don't agree with the assertion that some will be put off by the socialist term, but those people consider Democrat and Socialist to be equivalent terms.

This thread is entitled "Does anyone really think the GOP wouldn't hammer Bernie about being a socialist 24/7?"


They have been doing that to President Obama for eight years.
It didn't stop him from being elected and re-elected.



My problem with this thread is its conclusion that the results of a poll are written in stone. Leaders persuade people to do necessary things that they haven't thought of. That changes poll numbers and it wins elections.

The "leaders" of the Democratic Party, with their poll crafted messages, are endlessly scanning the thoughts of the people. Then they try to merge those thoughts with the requirements of their donors, and they spit back out to us a toothless, sanitized

solution

to our problems.

I can't resign myself to supporting an approach this weak and calculating unless I am absolutely forced to do so.

[1StrongBlackMan]

146. Step outside of your nuanced self ...

Do you think the general public will be so nuanced/informed in their deciding whether to listen, or not?

This thread is entitled "Does anyone really think the GOP wouldn't hammer Bernie about being a socialist 24/7?"


They have been doing that to President Obama for eight years.
It didn't stop him from being elected and re-elected.

There is a HUGE difference between having someone hang a label on you and you self-describing.

[virtualobserver]

147. The beauty of self-describing is that you can provide a complete description

I think that Bernie's candidacy is unusual enough for people to be intrigued, and that is enough to get people to listen initially. The bigger the crowds get, the more intrigued people will be.

I understand your skepticism, but I do think that the American people can be persuaded.

[haikugal]

152. Me either...very good post btw. nt

[haikugal]

151. I can't believe you just did that...I don't know if I should laugh or cry...really?

Using a take off on 'the magic negro?'.

[1StrongBlackMan]

160. I hadn't thought of that when I posted. n/t

[artislife]

133. Are these all landline users, too?

[neverforget]

136. So Hillary supporters aren't going to vote for Bernie?

They'll stay home or vote Republican? Who knew.

[demwing]

95. First, 63% of Americans didn't consider voting for anyone who ran in 2014

so your polling sample is quite small

Second, I don't believe you wouldn't have a problem voting for a socialist

Third, Bernie is a Democratic Socialist, which is different, so you needn't worry.

[artislife]

135. Aren't a lot of the people the same ones who wouldn't vote for a woman?

That's a stat that would be interesting to see. But since there is no good way of polling since most people don't use landlines, I guess we won't know unless H is on the ballot in the general.

[Scruffy1]

161. That means 48% would to me.

I'm thinking about at least half this hypothetical 52% wouldn't vote for any Democrat, anyway. With remaining 75% minus the roughly 25% who wouldn't vote for a Democrat who is socialist this leaves half the electorate. In the primaries the voter turnout is a small minority, after that it' candidate against candidate. It's a tough hall but not impossible. Been my experience many voters go by personality rather than ideology. Should be fun.

[daleanime]

19. ......

I use to love saturday afternoons.

[ruffburr]

8. Hammer them with-

Corporatist facisim, The truth is hard to hide.

[DanTex]

11. Good plan. "Corporatist fascism", it just rolls off the tongue...

[HassleCat]

9. Could backfire

They went around and accused Democrats of being "progressive," a label they applied as a pejorative. Then people began thinking about what it meant to be a progressive, and they concluded maybe it wasn't such a bad thing. Same process might occur with the label "socialist." If people catch on it doesn't mean Joe Stalin's right hand man, it's a different story.

[FreakinDJ]

10. Ya - they might hold up Europe's Free Healthcare as an example

or the Free College tuition

[daleanime]

22. +1

[Sancho]

130. Interesting how Bernie uses Scandinavia as an example when convenient...

A socialist like Scandinavia on everything EXCEPT guns...when will Bernie quit being a gun nut and call for restrictions, registration, and licenses. The European example would be welcome.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overview_of_gun_laws_by_nation#European_Union

Gun ownership requires license and is regulated by the weapon law (Vapenlagen 1996:67)[115]

[Vincardog]

12. I can't wait for them to start telling people what Bernie wants to do for the people. Bring it on

[BooScout]

13. Anyone who thinks that the 'Socialist' label...

...will play well with the General electorate voters is naive. If he takes the nomination (and I don't think he will)....he would lose in a landslide once the GOP aims their sights on him. Can we say George McGovern?

[DanTex]

15. Beyond naive, it's delusional.

It's hard enough to win an election, period, without at the same time trying to fundamentally change the way a large part of the electorate feels about the word "socialism".

[BooScout]

21. If I used that word....

One of my stalkers would report me....but I agree with you, lol

[Armstead]

79. "Obama is a Socialist." That's what the GOP's been saying for years.

Hasn't hurt him much.

[DanTex]

84. Obama never said "I'm a socialist". Huge difference.

[Armstead]

89. No it makes no difference.

Most Republican conservatives still think Obama is either a socialist or a raging liberal firebrand or, gasp, a "community activist."

Fuk 'em. It didn't stop Obama, and it would not be fatal to Sanders, if he does other things right.

[DanTex]

91. Of course it does.

It doesn't matter what conservative Republicans think, because they aren't going to vote for any Democrat. What does matter is what independents and centrists think, and I'm pretty sure they can tell the difference between "I'm not a socialist" and "I'm a socialist".

[Armstead]

93. Let me ask you a simple and direct question.

Are you also one of those who is deathly afraid of the term "Liberal?"

[DanTex]

114. Afraid, no. But the GOP has managed to turn it into a bad word in national politics.

Nothing like "socialist" though. Not even same ballpark.

[BooScout]

163. Half of America equates ....

....the word socialist with communist. Some people think that somehow Bernie is going to magically change this mindset overnight. It's not going to happen. Those that think he can do so are fooling themselves.

[BooScout]

44. You would do well to read up on him....

You learn from your mistakes and the mistake of George McGovern is not one that wants repeating.

[BooScout]

50. alrighty then...

[PoliticAverse]

53. Do you think if Sanders is the nominee he would have full support from the 'Establishment'

of the Democratic party?

[DisgustipatedinCA]

58. Yes. Would you care to float an alternative?

Blue Dogs for Cruz?

[Gothmog]

57. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it

I remember the McGovern campaign and had friends who were supporters volunteers. They were out spent and out organized by the CREP (the committee to re-elect the President). Idealism only goes so far.

[Raine1967]

116. MCGovern made a big mistake alright…

He let Nixon know he had an out of wedlock child. — ok he might not have 'let' him know, but Nixon found out.

And nixon was prepared to use that information.

I know that times may have changed in some places, but out of wedlock children are still not so welcome in many circles. Take from that what you may.

Personally, I really could not care — but in politics, it matters.

[BooScout]

117. Well dang....

Again I find myself talking to Name Removed. He seems to follow me around alot.

[brewens]

52. Back in the McGovern days, a kid could walk right out of high school and into

a good paying job still. It was pretty easy to think, if it ain't broke, don't fix it back then. Not anywhere near as much reason for people to think we needed someone like McGovern. I'm betting that even with the socialist label, people will feel the Bern!

[Go Vols]

83. +1

[Nevada Blue]

94. ^^^ this ^^^ nt

[azmom]

115. Damn Skippy

[demwing]

85. This Ain't 1972

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1277&pid=8825

but thanks for your sincere concerns

[Scruffy1]

162. To me, at least, this is a poor analogy.

George wasn't all that great a candidate on the stump, they had only about 10% of the money that Nixon had, and a lousy ground game. Neither was a "lefty." Incumbants are very hard to beat at any time, the economy was great, and media assassinated George over his welfare reform proposal. They carried my state, and lost all the rest. I'm thinking the advent of social media can make a big difference in organizing with low dollars. TV is losing it's clout . I don't watch it at all, and neither does anyone I know. Besides which, every election is has a unique context.

[djean111]

14. Are you honestly expecting anyone to switch support to Hillary because of that?

Seriously? And you think that the "Hillary has too much dirt" thing is the only reason that people prefer Bernie? Or O'Malley? That they are interchangeable? And hey - we already know that HILLARY is gonna use the socialist thing against Bernie, along with the other stuff you dragged up.
I would submit that this argument is pointless at DU.

[artislife]

16. Not really

Cuz he's "a fighter."---that always makes me chuckle.

And it will be a Christmas miracle when he gets the nod!

When we defy the Grinch and Christmas comes to us all! Yippee!!

[Cheese Sandwich]

17. That makes him stronger. That's his real secret weapon.

It forces them to waste a question, they waste an attack. Because that's one of Bernie's strongest and most practiced answers.

When challenged about socialism that gives him like a full two minutes to explain he wants jobs, paid sick leave, guaranteed paid vacations, high quality child care for all, medicare for all, education paid for, and tax the billionaire class.

If that's what he is selling as socialism, it's a very popular program that America needs. So bring it on.

It also has the added benefit of actually getting people talking about socialism. And it holds the door open for other types of socialists to follow behind Bernie into the political world.

[DanTex]

23. LOL, vulnerability to attack ads is a "secret weapon" now. Almost as powerful as not being

able to raise money. Combine that with alienating AA and Latino voters, and you've got yourself a winner!

[Cleita]

20. It may not be a bad thing. Many people who were brainwashed about

the evil commies during the Cold War have no idea what socialism really is. They think of it as Soviet style communism The fact is although Russia and the Eastern Bloc countries of that era had a fairly communistic economy and socialism in services to the people like health care and education, they were in fact totalitarian dictatorships.

Instead we need to turn the conversation to the Scandanavian socialism that exists today so that people get what it really is. This will be an opportunity to educate people on a national level as to why it's a desirable thing in this day and age.

[DanTex]

26. You think that having to educate a public who has had "socialism bad" drilled into them for decades,

and 52% of whom won't consider voting for a socialist, a good thing?

I don't see it. It's hard enough to win an election without having to massively change peoples minds.

[virtualobserver]

43. They called Obama a socialist, and we know how well that worked in the last two elections

The RW nuts have been dying off.

Millennials don't buy the old labels, "Oligarchy bad" beats "socialism bad" hands down.

[arcane1]

64. A socialist with Saddam's middle name. Remember how dems tried to scare us from Obama?

This OP is a joke

[emsimon33]

127. I do believe that was Hillary, wasn't it :-)

[artislife]

134. *chortle nt

[Armstead]

82. "....who might have been born in kenya"

[DanTex]

87. But Obama never said "I'm a socialist".

You're right that millenials are relatively socialist-friendly, but millenials aren't the only people voting. If only people under 30 were allowed to vote, you might have a point.

[virtualobserver]

103. It doesn't matter......the term has lost its pop.....even "Communist China"

......oh, you mean where my Iphone is made.....

This isn't the 1950's.

[DanTex]

104. Not according to polls.

[virtualobserver]

106. Polls say that Hillary is "untrustworthy".......

will being hammered by the Koch brothers improve her standing with the American people?

[DanTex]

107. Her poll numbers against the GOP candidates are good. Not sure what this has to do

with the socialism discussion though.

[virtualobserver]

108. who do you think that people would prefer...a socialist, or someone who is untrustworthy? n/t

[DanTex]

110. Well, obviously in this instance they prefer Hillary by a huge margin.

We don't need to speculate, they have polls for that. The trustworthiness number, meh, it goes up and down. There's also fav/unfav and approval and all sorts of other indicators. Like I said, overall she polls well against everyone. Unlike Bernie, who is 40 points behind her even among Democrats, which are the least likely people to object to socialism.

[virtualobserver]

124. we will see - Bernie is creeping up in a number of state polls

[Cleita]

47. Nothing is worse than ignorance and false premises.

Bringing these misconceptions to the forefront and into the discussion is good for everyone. Also, socialism and capitalism are economic systems. They can flourish under any kind of government. For instance the totalitarian Chinese are showing US how to make capitalism work. Before that they were communists and still call themselves that like the Nazis called themselves socialists but who were basically a war and death cult. Yet Germany thrived economically for awhile under fascism. Oh their factories were making a lot weapon and military stuff like our MIC is doing today, which is why we have to wage a lot of wars around the world.

I want us to understand that we need to start diverting our military spending into social programs for all Americans and that is why we need to know what socialism really is. Otherwise we will get the next perpetrator of the status quo.

[Stardust]

119. Thank you for pointing out that socialism and capitalism are economic systems, not types of

governments. That distinction cannot be emphasized often enough. I hate that the word socialism has taken on such a negative connotation. Drives me nuts. Socialist programs in this country are very popular.

[Paka]

48. I had the evils of socialism pounded into me

for the first twenty years of my life and as a 73 year old woman, I am full on for Bernie. So are all of my contemporary friends. Those of us who have a few brain cells functioning can recognize over-the-top hype. Socialsm is a non-starter issue when you hear what Bernie espouses.

[PassingFair]

24. The GOP already calls Clinton "Hitlery". Do you really think the GOP likes Clinton?

This argument is ridiculous.

[DanTex]

28. Of course they hate Clinton. They'll hate any Dem.

But, unlike Bernie, Hillary hasn't done them the huge favor of saying "I'm a socialist". Calling her "Hitlery" is just stupid.

[PassingFair]

32. I think people are ready for democratic socialist policies.

The GOP will NEVER be ready for "Hitlery".

Dem strategists didn't think we were ready for marriage equality, either.

[DanTex]

37. Policies, maybe, but not for a person who says "I'm a socialist".

A lot of campaigning is about perception. Not everyone is a political junkie. There are lots of low-information voters. If there weren't then the Dems would win every election handily.

[PassingFair]

69. He's running as a "Democrat" not a "Socialist" nt

[DanTex]

71. He's on record saying "I'm a socialist". Many times. And he only became a Democrat recently.

[PassingFair]

75. A progressive democrat by any other name wouldst smell as sweet.

Really, GOP hate "Hillary" as much as they hate the word "socialist".

[DanTex]

81. Smell as sweet, yes, but not as electable.

Yes, the GOP hates Hillary (or any other Dem) as much as anything else. The problem are the independents and centrists.

[Gothmog]

25. Negatives ads work and the Kochs would spend a great deal attacking Sanders

The only way to fight this type of attack is if the candidate had sufficient finanical resources to fight back and I doubt that this will be the case for Sanders

[FreakinDJ]

27. Ya think Americans won't hammer the GOP about Healthcare ???

[Comrade Grumpy]

30. Why would they need to? We've got you.

[AgingAmerican]

33. Who cares what the GOP does or thinks?

They are idiots.

Your concern is duly noted.

[Scuba]

34. They hammered Barack 24 X 7 on the topic.

Didn't work then either.

[DanTex]

39. That's because he didn't say "I'm a socialist". He said "I'm not a socialist".

The "not" in there makes all the difference.

[Scuba]

42. Yeah, 'cause GOP voters always listen to what Dem candidates say.

[hootinholler]

35. I'm counting on it

If camp weathervane can't make it be a negative, what makes you think the GOP will be able to?

All it needs is a reference to the evil socialist empire of say, Finland.

[sabrina 1]

36. They already have. So what is your point? Let them show how out of touch they

are with today's world.

7 out of 10 young voters WANT a Democratic Socialist Govt.

But DON'T tell the Republicans, IF they use that against Bernie, it will only HELP him.

This isn't the 'fifties. Most of today's voters associate Socialist Democratic systems with some of the best Governments in the world.


I hope they do. Look what happened when Jindal tried to do it.

When Buckwheat Zydeco objected to Jindal using his music for his announcement saying he supported Bernie, Jindal called Bernie a 'Socialist'. All he got for that was laughter and a reminder of what century we are living in.

Jindal also calls Hillary a Socialist.

And Bernie doesn't have to wait for Repubs to do it, at least FOUR Hillary surrogates have tried it only to be schooled by voters wrt today's world as opposed to the red baiting past.

I hope they do, but they are using it against Hillary also.

Used it against Obama.

It's an old, faded red baiting tactic that has zero relevance to today's world. Makes them look old and jaded and pretty desperate actually.

Young voters response to this?' 'Cool, you mean like Norway where Health Care is a right'???

[DanTex]

41. No, no, no they have not.

Bernie's never faced a full-on GOP attack. Yeah, they try calling everyone a socialist, but that doesn't work very well because the Dems don't go around saying "I'm a socialist".

[notadmblnd]

40. Socialism vs Social Democracy — What’s The Difference?

One is about collective ownership of the means of production;
the other about organic social solidarity with private ownership of production.

One is restrictive;
the other libertarian.

One is metaphysical (excessively abstract reasoning);
the other empirical (demonstrable, verifiable reasoning).

One is dogmatic;
the other scientific.

One is emotional;
the other reflective.

One is destructive;
the other constructive.

Both are in pursuit of the greatest possible welfare for all.

– One aims to establish happiness for all;

– the other to enable each to be happy in one’s own way.

The first regards the State as a society “sui generis,” of a unique essence, the product of a right outside of and above all society, with special rights and able to exact special obediences;
the second considers the State as an association like any other, generally managed no better and no more efficient than others.

The first proclaims the sovereignty of the State;
the second recognizes no sort of sovereign.

One wishes all monopolies to be held by the State;
the other wishes the abolition of all monopolies.

One wishes the governed class to become the governing class;
the other wishes the disappearance of classes.

Both declare that the existing state of things cannot last.

– The first considers revolutions as the indispensable agent of evolutions;

– the second teaches that repression alone turns political evolutions into revolution.

The first has faith in a cataclysm;
the second knows that social progress will result from the free play of individual efforts.

One wishes that there should be none but proletariats;
the other wishes that there should be no more proletariats.

The first wishes to take everything away from everybody;
the second wishes to leave each in possession of its own.

The one wishes to expropriate everybody;
the other wishes everybody to be a proprietor.

The first says: Do as the government wishes;
the second says: Do as you wish yourself.

The former threatens with despotism;
the latter promises liberty.

The former makes the citizen the subject of the State;
the latter makes the State the employee of the citizen.

One proclaims that labor pains will be necessary to the birth of a new world;
the other declares that real progress will not cause suffering to any one.

The first has confidence in social war;
the other believes only in works of peace.

One aspires to command, to regulate, to legislate;
the other wishes to attain the minimum of command, of regulation, of legislation.

One would be followed by the most atrocious of reactions;
the other opens unlimited horizons to progress.

The first will fail;
the other will succeed.

One desires equality; the other seeks equity.

– The first by lowering heads that are too high;

– the other by raising heads that are too low.

One sees equality under a common yoke;
the other will secure equity in complete liberty.

One is intolerant;
the other tolerant.

One frightens;
the other reassures.

The first wishes to instruct everybody;
the second wishes to enable everybody to instruct one’s self.

The first wishes to support everybody;
the second wishes to enable everybody to support one’s self.

One says:

– The land to the State

– The mine to the State

– The tool to the State

– The product to the State

The other says:

– The land to the cultivator.

– The mine to the miner.

– The tool to the laborer.

– The product to the producer.

One is the infancy of Socialism;
the other is its manhood.

One is already the past;
the other is the future.

One will give way to the other…

Based upon the writing of ~ Ernest Lesigne – Liberty V, 10 (December 17, 1887), No. 114, p. 5.

[TexasBushwhacker]

56. Excellent! n/t

[Scuba]

46. They've been trying this forever; hasn't worked yet.

[leveymg]

51. Do Republicans flinch from "Conservative" or "Capitalist" or "Rightwing?" No, they embrace them.

So, why should Bernie and progressive Democrats abandon the term "socialist", particularly since most left and center-left western political parties explicitly embrace it?

Time for Americans to get over obsolete Cold War taboos which rely upon such frozen labels.

[elleng]

55. Heck no, that'd be #1;

#2, New Yawk, #3, Jewish (or vice versa.)

[NCTraveler]

59. They only attack Hillary, not Sanders.

You have been told over and over again how many posters republican friends are voting for Sanders.

[redstateblues]

62. I still can't believe Nixon won. Everybody I know voted for

McGovern.

[arcane1]

67. And everything always happens the same n/t

[Zorra]

60. Who cares? I have to deal with bullshit people every day. If I let them control what

I believe and think, and how I act, then they win, and I lose.

And that ain't never gonna happen.

[Armstead]

86. Bingo....I wish Democrats would take that to heart as a party

[ibegurpard]

90. certain Democrats

Are either spineless or they are on board with neoliberal corporate privatizing policy. Neither of these alternatives is acceptable and they need to be replaced or marginalized.

[Politicalboi]

61. Maybe more people will understand socialism

I will take Socialist Bernie over lying Hillary any day. We stand a better chance of more GOP assholes voting for Bernie than Hillary.

[arcane1]

63. Reminds me of "They'll go after "Hussein" and his blackness" and similar crap

You can let the republicans make YOUR choice for you, but I'm not afraid of them. I'll vote my conscience, not my fear.

[Depaysement]

65. 2008: Does anyone really think the GOP wouldn't hammer a black Democrat with a Muslim African name?

Hi President Obama!

[arcane1]

68. Yep. This OP is the same FUD bullshit the Clinton crew gave us in 2008

It's all they had then, and it's all they have now.

[4139]

66. The term has lost 95% of its 'bite' from 50 years ago, like the term'Redskins'...

A hundred years ago Redskins was an ethnic slur, now it just means: crappy, loser football team!

'Socialist ' doesn't have much bite to it anymore

[fbc]

72. Pew Survey: Young Americans Favor Socialism over Capitalism (you're right!!!)

http://morallowground.com/2012/01/04/pew-survey-young-americans-favor-socialism-over-capitalism/

[DanTex]

78. Yes, young Americans. But not all Americans are young. The overall impression of socialism

is 31-positive 60-negative, from that same poll.

I'm not saying that socialism will forever carry the stigma it has. But in 2016, being a socialist is a highly unfavorable attribute for a presidential candidate.

[fbc]

70. I hope so, it's time to get rid of the stigma attached to the word "socialism"

[DanTex]

73. How about first getting rid of the stigma, before squandering a presidential race by

running a self-professed socialist on the Democratic ticket. If socialism is really so appealing to the American public, and the many-decade-long stigma is so easy to get rid of, why hasn't that happened yet?

[ibegurpard]

80. Because people like you have been fighting

For politicians that keep moving the party to the right. That's why. I have no idea if it's because you actually believe in neoliberal policy or if your support is fear based.

[Armstead]

92. Double Plus Good.

That's the essential question about so much of the behavior of the last 30 years from centrist Democrats.

[DanTex]

111. What, me? What did I do? I'm not moving the party to the right, I'm a progressive Dem.

Not wanting to see a Republican in the White House doesn't make me "neo-liberal".

[demwing]

74. GOP? How about we start right here at DU

with your post?

[ibegurpard]

76. They same way they hammer corporatist Obama for it?

There's a reason for the story "The Little Boy who Cried Wolf."

[Armstead]

77. Hell, they always call Obama a Socialist already.

My guess is the ones who will buy into that particular boogeyman would not vote for anyone the Democrats might put up anyway.

As for any other dirt in his past? Same thing.

I think his main protection against that crap is the fact that he's pretty open about his life. He does fine in Vermont, and you can;t have many secrets in a place like that.

And he followed a journey that many Baby Boomers did. In terms of sordid skeletons of politicians....er, I'll just leave it at this.

[fbc]

88. Yes, in fact this is part of why more and more people want socialism

"Obama's a socialist? We should get us some more socialism then"

Thanks republican party! morons.

[Scootaloo]

96. Ah yes, "The GOP" (wink wink nudge nudge)

Of course they'll go after Sanders with everything. They'll go after Clinton with everything too. or O'Malley. or Chaffee, the poor bastard. And let's not even talk about what they'd do to Webb.

let me introduce a concept to you, DanTex.

We are Democrats. This means that republicans are not in our driver's seat. We do not make decisions based on the breathless fears of the GOP electorate, nor based on the hand-wringing concern of Democrats who think we ought to give the Republicans such control.

The fact is the Republcians have been going after every non-Republican (and even a good number of Republicans!) with the snarl of "socialist!" for over forty years. it's a "boy who cried wolf" situation now. Of course there is the initial knee-jerk result.. .but we've only been adding to that with candidates who clasp their chest and go "what?1 Me a socialist? No no no no, please stop, augh it BURNS!" (drama added for emphasis.)

Throw it at Sanders, and what will he do? He'll say "I'm a democratic socialist, which means this, this, and this." Now you keep telling me that you think Sanders has the best policy positions. if that's true then you must realize that those good policies and positions stem from his positioning as a democratic socialist. And I have to presume you understand that you are not a specially enlightened, elite being among Americans, who will be able to see, hear, and judge sanders' positions based on those positions just as you are.

Result? Republicans scream "socialism!" and Sanders embraces it... making socialism actually look good. it's an opportunity to dismantle four generations' worth of right-wing bullshit on the subject in one swoop.

[Aerows]

113. I have got to say, Scootaloo

You can lay it on the line in terms that everybody can understand with a *BAM* for good measure.

You absolutely rock!

[beam me up scottie]

121. ^^^This!^^^

Obvious concerned Hillary supporter is obvious.

[arcane1]

122. Perfectly said!

[haikugal]

157. Ha! Wonderful response to the pearl clutching...I salute you!!! nt

[Agnosticsherbet]

97. Wealth Daily, which I won't link to, called Hillary "The Great Socialist Warmonger"

They are already calling Hillary Clinton a socialist. If Sanders wins, he will become "The Great Socialist Warmonger"

There is a segment of their base who shit their pants with fear and run to the ballot box at the word Socialist.
Republicans also called Obama a socialist. President Obama called them to task on that.

http://www.politicususa.com/2013/08/06/obama-ridicules-republicans-call-socialist.html

Republicans called Al Gore a communist.

[DanTex]

98. Obama was able to make fun of them for that because he never said "I'm a socialist".

It's one thing when the right calls you a socialist. It's another when you call yourself that.

[Agnosticsherbet]

101. The accusation of "Socialist" is used to flog voters to the polls by Republicans.

Those voters would not know a socialist if one bit them on the ass.

I don't think it will mean much to most Democrats at the polls.

It will be used against the Democratic nominee, not matter who wins the primary.

[sabrina 1]

123. That's because he was far from being a Socialist. Bernie thankfully, IS and THAT is why

young voters are so excited about his candidacy.

Do you understand the word at all, or are you going with old US 'fifties deliberate distortion of the word?

It's way past time we start moving into the present and establishing a Democratic Socialist Government in THIS country like every other CIVILIZED Developed nation already has.

I wish they would stop calling Hillary a Socialist, because she isn't and this can only help her and we then get the status quo all over again, the Capitalist disaster currently in place.

We NEED to end the Corporate Government we now have, it is NOT working for the people and they KNOW IT.

[Armstead]

99. Is "Liberal" still a dirty word for Democrats too?

I remember wanting to throw my show at the TV when Kerry was running and was asked if he would describe himself as a liberal.

"humph,humph.....er, well, I believe in a specific approach to each issue, outside of such labels......errr, cough,cough."

[ibegurpard]

100. And Alison Grimes

Refusing to say if she voted for Obama? Weak, weak, weak.

[stevenleser]

102. They have already started. But that is all you would hear about if he was the nominee. And as you

note, it's one of those few characteristics left where a majority of folks say they would not vote for under any circumstance.

[TBF]

112. Shaking in my boots -

"young radical", "socialist-ey" activities.

Americans may just be stupid enough to elect the "let's get rid of Social Security and Medicare" republicans, but I kind of doubt it.

[Ron Green]

118. This thread is weak.

IMHO.

[emsimon33]

126. I agree that it will play well with the Fox crowd

but they wouldn't vote anything but straight Republican anyway.

The attitude of the young people is: "So, what is so wrong with a little socialism?"

As far as the child out of wedlock, etc., these are non-issues, especially when Bernie keeps saying, let's stick to the issues. Bringing up these issues will hit too many people who have similar incidents in their family. At least he hasn't tried to hide it.

It is not the Republicans who will do the job on Bernie, it is Hillary and her vultures who want back in power and want to continue the status quo.

People are fed up with corporate puppets and all the Republicans (other than maybe Trump) and Bernie are simply more of the same, corporate puppets.

[malokvale77]

128. Problem is...

the hammering seems to be coming from the HRC camp more than the GOP.

[Thinkingabout]

129. If anyone remembers,the Swift Boat attacks on John Kerry who is a war hero then be prepared for the

Attacks to be much harder. The GOP is pushing to have Bernie as the nominee because they will be able to eat his breakfast three times a day before Bernie gets out of bed. He doesn't have the Teflon coating Hillary and if the matchup is between Christie and Bernie it will be debates of how many times they can tell each other "shut up".

[ericson00]

138. pure fantasy to think America's gonna elect an avowed socialist

not to mention someone whose more out of touch than John Kerry and Mitt Romney. Even for the Clinton's current wealth, people know that they once had none. Bernie comes off like the latte nominee.

[moobu2]

139. The Republicans would bury Bernie in the general

but hopefully we wont have to worry about that.

[davidpdx]

141. Did anyone here think Democrats would bitch, whine, and moan about attacking other candidates

when they in turn attack other candidates? Have a side of this with your hypocrisy.




[size=2]Legal disclaimer: The shit you are being served is not actual shit, but a photo of shit looks like. We strongly discourage against actually eating the shit. If you do eat the shit, then you should consult a physician immediately.[/font]

[DanTex]

142. Yeah, I've noticed that about Bernistas. They smear Hillary all day long, and then someone points

out that Bernie, for example, voted to give gun companies legal immunity, and they go ballistic.

[davidpdx]

144. I was talking about you

Enjoy your treat.

[R B Garr]

166. Exactly, and the over-reactions are very telling. Bernie didn't exactly

react very well when interviewed by Chuck Todd no matter how people want to paint that MTP interview last week. He came off as defensive and curmudgeonly. That's not going to play out well at all over a long campaign. He can't run and hide in Vermont like he's done for decades when he is going to be on a national campaign. That's obviously why he hasn't bothered exposing himself to such invasive scrutiny as other Presidential candidates have endured. He could have run a national campaign as a revolutionary socialist if at any time, but he's never bothered. After several times of being questioned about the socialist label, he looks like he might lose his cork.

Bernie is obviously used to talking/lecturing from a podium and not being questioned, as also evidenced by his hostility in front of the BLM activitists at NetRoots. One town hall someone posted earlier showed him telling a participant to shut up. That's not going to fly, and that's just one way these things can be used against him.

[Scruffy1]

159. It's an election.

I think this is becoming interesting and Bernie has opened up the conversation. There is always name calling, negativity and a whole lot of other despicable crap but in the end it's part of the process. The decision will be made at the polls and caucuses.

[nc4bo]

143. I think the gop has inadvertently changed the definition by calling Pres. Obama a socialist.

They're going to have to create a new adjective to describe Bernie Sanders.

If the term did not dissuade many people from voting for O in '08 or '12, it sure isnt going to do much in '16.

[Autumn]

148. Explain how the GOP can have an investigation on that trumped up offense?

I can see one of the idiots declaring on the steps of Congress 'our committee will be holding hearings to investigate the socialism of Bernie Sanders'. That would be as hysterical as this OP.

[marmar]

149. So what. It's losing it's efficacy.

[Motown_Johnny]

150. The way FDR and the Greatest Generation were Socialists.

I welcome their hatred, and their attacks.


Lets have this debate.


Hillary on the other hand......

[DinahMoeHum]

153. So WTF, man? The GOoPers would call ANYBODY

who is not WASP everything short of a communist and then some.

We've heard their shit for DECADES. Somehow. this time, it ain't gonna have the same effect this time. We'll be ready for them.

[SidDithers]

154. They would...

and a portion of the population that would vote Democratic, would either not vote, or vote Republican instead.

How big that portion is, we don't know. But to pretend it doesn't exist is naive.

Sid

[CanadaexPat]

155. 'Nothing they've tried has stuck'?

Have you seen her poll numbers on honesty?

[Ed Suspicious]

156. Nearly 160 replies. Ten recs.

Clearly the community is with you.

[TheKentuckian]

158. I seem to have misplaced all of my fucks so I have one to give right now.

That is a feature not a bug.

[MrMickeysMom]

164. They "hammer" because they have nothing else...

True to form, Bernie Sanders is, was and will be about the issues which have never been addressed by the mentally bankrupt GOP.

I suppose if all the voter was about was seeing people get hammered, they wouldn't have a care in the world as to what the issues are.

Don't know too many people who are all about getting hammered. I know a HELL of a lot of people who are all about the issues.

That's why I don't take pot shots or "hammer" myself. I call the issues out, and if YOU HAVEN'T ADDRESSED THE ISSUES…. then, you don't have my attention or vote.