About this "trotting" meme

[whatchamacallit]

Last edited Sun Jul 26, 2015, 06:45 PM - Edit history (3)

I've noticed some PoC (self identified) on DU get absolutely incensed when a white person (assumed) "trots out" the opinion of a PoC to make a point. Unless of course, it's a white HRC supporter doing so to buttress the Bernie sucks with PoC, they're 100% behind Hillary because she gets it, messaging...

Recently, I rec'd an OP that reposted the KOS diary of a black man who supports Sanders and thinks PoC are making a mistake in reflexively supporting Clinton. The OP was met with accusations of right wing-style exploitation of minority opinions. I guess the notion was that reproducing this guy's diary was a slight to the AA community by attempting to invalidate their solidarity... or something...

I can tell you honestly, when I read the diary I had only one sentiment: WooHoo another PoC for team Bernie! That was all, never for an instant did it occur to me it was an opportunity to backhand the AA community Of course there's precedent for such things, but you have to wonder why only Sanders supporters face the suspicion of cynically exploiting minority voices.

So what we have now... White HRC supporters conveniently donning the civil rights crusader cape to shame Sanders and his supporters for racial insensitivity, and progressives of all stripes shaming each other for not being real or the right kind. Quite the shitshow.

[JaneyVee]

1. It wasn't really white HRC supporters donning a cape to shame Sanders...

At least not from what I've seen.

[hootinholler]

2. Why is that?

A lot of Bernie supporters are asking the same question.

The tactic is quite Rovian in that it attacks the strength of the candidate.

I have no answer, only suspicions.

[hifiguy]

47. "Rovian" is the perfect descriptor

and the ruthlessness of the Clintons is a longstanding matter of record. Some of us haven't forgotten HRC dog-whistling in 2008.

The conclusions are easy to draw.

[oasis]

54. Clinton's "dog whistling" in 2008"? Please provide an example of substance. (eom).

[hifiguy]

55. Search this site.

It has been documented here at great length and is an established fact.

[oasis]

59. I asked for "substance" from you, not someone else's idea of

What those so called "dog whistle" comments meant. True enough, I've seen the "dog whistle"label
tossed around here a few times before as if it were accepted fact. I never bought in to the "fairy tale" comment by Bill as rising to that level. Some of the other controversial comments made by Hill's 2008 campaign in regards to race, gave me pause, but I never thought their was any malice behind them. If anything, the Clinton campaign was guilty of "insensitivity".

[elehhhhna]

65. look ip hardworking white people and Bobby kennedy died in june

Those will get you started

[oasis]

72. Wasn't she citing an AP poll in regards to white voters?

As for the comment she made about RFK, that could hardly be used in the context of racial politics. Btw, Hill apologized for the RFK remark.

[artislife]

77. From this site t

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=427849

Reading this post is what got me to finally create an account on DU.


I remember 2008, but I am a Latina so I hear the dog whistles, too.

[840high]

80. Thanks for link.

[oasis]

91. Jesse Helms' "hands" ad in NC in his senatorial

race against AA Harvey Gantt. The not so subtle message was "blacks are taking jobs away from whites". A few years back in a Tennessee senate race GOP darling, Corker, ran ads depicting a blonde woman seductively asking AA Harord Ford to "call me".

Those types of campaign attacks I, and many folks would agree, rise to the level of the tag, "dog whistle". I will, however, concede that one can't measure the emotional impact words have on another. My claim was the Clinton's were unfairly, repeatedly accused of "dog whistle" politics in 2008, instead of "insensitivity". You have enlightened me somewhat on the terminology.

I want to thank you and the other poster who provided links.

[artislife]

101. Thank for being open.

It is amazing when we just do that how much understanding can happen.

[Capt. Obvious]

110. Here's one

[Capt. Obvious]

112. Here's another

At a rally here for Mrs. Clinton at Columbia College, Mr. Johnson was defending recent comments that Mrs. Clinton made regarding Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. She did not mean to take any credit away from him, Mr. Johnson said, when she said that it took President Johnson to sign the civil rights legislation he fought for.

Dr. King had led a “moral crusade,” Mr. Johnson said, but such crusades have to be “written into law.”

“That is the way the legislative process works in this nation and that takes political leadership,” he said. “That’s all Hillary was saying.”

He then added: “And to me, as an African-American, I am frankly insulted that the Obama campaign would imply that we are so stupid that we would think Hillary and Bill Clinton, who have been deeply and emotionally involved in black issues since Barack Obama was doing something in the neighborhood –­ and I won’t say what he was doing, but he said it in the book –­ when they have been involved.”

Moments later, he added: “That kind of campaign behavior does not resonate with me, for a guy who says, ‘I want to be a reasonable, likable, Sidney Poitier ‘Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner.’ And I’m thinking, I’m thinking to myself, this ain’t a movie, Sidney. This is real life.”

NYTimes

[Capt. Obvious]

113. Another

But electability is a funny, vague word, that, for both Clinton and Obama, tends to also mean things nobody wants to say. And a prominent New Hampshire Clinton backer, Bill Shaheen, takes it in a whole different direction in the Washington Post:

"The Republicans are not going to give up without a fight ... and one of the things they're certainly going to jump on is his drug use," saidShaheen, the husband of former N.H. governor Jeanne Shaheen, who is planning to run for the Senate next year. Billy Shaheen contrasted Obama's openness about his past drug use -- which Obama mentioned again at a recent campaign appearance in New Hampshire -- with the approach taken by George W. Bush in 1999 and 2000, when he ruled out questions about his behavior when he was "young and irresponsible."

Shaheen said Obama's candor on the subject would "open the door" to further questions. "It'll be, 'When was the last time? Did you ever give drugs to anyone? Did you sell them to anyone?'" Shaheen said. "There are so many openings for Republican dirty tricks. It's hard to overcome."

Politico

[99th_Monkey]

3. "..why only Sanders supporters face the suspicion of cynically exploiting minority voices."

The words "disingenuous opportunism" come to mind here.

On edit: I've decided to rest assured that Bernie will steadily gain support
from PoC, as he continues to address issues important to them, and to
healing race relations, while staying focused on issues everyone cares about.

PoC are meanwhile discovering "OMG Hillary takes money from the private prison
industry?", and people remember how Bill's "tough on crime" shtick has incarcerated
more PoC than ever, and so on.

I think Bernie is right on time, staying focused while he steadily expands
his messages and reaches more and more people who are simply fed up
with "business as usual".

[Trajan]

4. This has been happening since the netroots debacle

It is being exploited by one campaign for political expediency ... As if Bernie's whole candidacy is a right wing republican plot ...

Mind you, their preferred candidate has said very little about the subject, and so the princess has very little clothing to cover her naked absence from the issues affecting PoC, but that isn't going to stop them from using every dirty trick to try and imply Bernie didn't care about people of color ... What an outlandish assertion ...

I will continue to defy that ridiculous meme ...

[JaneyVee]

6. Hillary hasn't been talking about these issues???

She's the only one who HAS been talking about these issues. She was talking about Black Lives Matter in 2014. She was campaigning with Clementa the day he was assassinated. She meets with Black Caucus to discuss issues. She made these issues the focal point of her speech at the Mayor's conference. The list goes on and on.

[JDPriestly]

37. And Bernie, not yet on the national stage as he is today, was the first or among the very

first to express his support for African-Americans regarding Ferguson.

Race is not the topic that differentiates Hillary from Bernie. They are both strong on the issues of race.
Bernie has a stronger history on the issue of police violence.

The big issue is campaign financing and what to do about the economic disparity. Bernie wants to put more checks on Wall Street, establish a policy on free trade that does not hurt American industry and workers and break up the too big to fail banks.

Hillary is not strong on economic issues.

African-Americans will soon see who Bernie is and how strongly he supports them in their fight for justice.

But all Americans will lose if Hillary becomes our nominee and then president because her stances on economic issues as will as on prisons, incarceration and those justice issues are not strong enough for this time and place.

Bernie is the stronger candidate. Bernie's grass-roots campaign does not really start in most of American until July 29. I will be a part of it. We shall see what happens then.

Hillary owes too much to her Wall Street buddies. That will soon become clear to all Americans of all colors and ethnic backgrounds.

America needs Bernie.

[progressoid]

117. She the 'ONLY' one?

[spinbaby]

5. Had to read this twice

For a moment there I read PoC as Pirates of the Caribbean. Dang acronyms.

[Vattel]

21. I miss POTCO

[Ed Suspicious]

7. Quite the shitshow indeed. Well put.

[Bobbie Jo]

8. Again, it's not so much Sanders

as it is his supporters.

Once again, take a look at his supporters and their reaction to BLM:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1280&pid=27165

Compared to the discussion in the AA group:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/118718521

Also, accounts from those who were there:

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2015/07/22/1404615/-A-black-woman-s-negative-encounter-with-a-Sanders-supporter-after-NN15-BlackLivesMatter-protest

Bottom line, their reaction to BLM is getting some well-deserved push back. To say that HRC supporters are taking advantage of this is just more of the same dismissive rhetoric we've come to expect from some of these people.

As far as my "caped crusader" attitude is concerned, I've ALWAYS been there. Check my posting history if you like, but this isn't something new and different for me.

[whatchamacallit]

10. The main point of the OP

is that whenever a Sanders supporter reproduces, quotes, or references the opinion of a person of color, some on this board automatically cry foul. The same people never question the motives of white HRC supporters doing the same. What is the distinction? Is it because the opinions being reproduced by Sanders supporters are out of the current, unassailable, mainstream, or is it simply our choice of candidate that decides what we can post?

[Bobbie Jo]

13. I don't know...

Try listening?

[whatchamacallit]

17. Maybe that should go for

people who ignore dissenting voices as well.

[Bobbie Jo]

23. Not really

especially when those voices are astonishingly tone deaf.

I don't listen to RW'ers for the same reason.

See here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/118719744

That's how it's done...

[whatchamacallit]

26. I meant

the dissenting voices of PoC. Who's listening to them?

[Bobbie Jo]

27. Scouring the internets

looking for them is what we're seeing here. That is AFTER the POC right in front you have been repeatedly dismissed.

No, this brilliant DU'er called it a full week ago...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1187&pid=18529

[GeorgeGist]

111. or baffling bullshit

[Bobbie Jo]

114. baffling only to the profoundly tone deaf.

That much is obvious.

[sheshe2]

102. +10000~

Tired, 3:45 .......gotta go

[1StrongBlackMan]

12. +1. n/t

[JDPriestly]

39. Hillary didn't dare show her face at Netroots Nation.

Why?

Because they were discourteous to HER the previous year.

So much for the BLM at Netroots Nation.

First rule in waging a battle. Know your friends from your enemies and take the high ground when possible.

Napoleon lost at Waterloo because his strategy failed him.

No matter how righteous your cause, you have to distinguish between your friends and your foes and handle them accordingly.

Bernie Sanders has been a friend of Black people and has fought for their issues consistently through the present for over 50 years.

He did not hesitate to be one of the first if not the first to condemn the police excessive use of violence in Ferguson. Where was Hillary?

Where was Hillary when the prisons gave her campaign donations?

Where was Hillary when Bill Clinton signed Welfare Reform and the bill that has increased prison populations to an unacceptable percentage of Black people?

Hillary and Bill had their chance to change America.

Obama has had his. He appointed a corporate law firm attorney as Attorney General and the results have made the banks and corporate America very happy,, I'm sure. Let's see who Bernie appoints as attorney general? Wouldn't it be great if we got someone whose first issue rather than being safeguarding the too big to fail sizes of the big banks were voting rights and racial justice?

Know your friends from your foes.

Let's see what Bernie can do.

[Bobbie Jo]

41. Why are you still explaining Bernie?

Hillary? Bill?? huh?

Did you mean to reply to my post? It sounds like you didn't even read it.

[calimary]

118. WRONG. She didn't go because she was already booked elsewhere.

Big event long scheduled and long booked in advance: the Arkansas Democratic Party fundraising dinner. She WAS the First Lady of that state for quite some time before she became First Lady of the United States for those who don't remember. So it was quite understandably a key event for her to attend.

It's so ridiculous and unfair that some here insist on continuing to portray her as some sort of deliberate no-show because - Benghazi or Monica or last year's NRN or whatever other excuse is dreamed up. She did NOT stand anybody up. She did NOT skip it because she wanted to hide. But I suppose anyone can make any baloney accusation to support any rash, factually inaccurate "points."

[Number23]

43. My post to you last week makes even more sense now, doesn't it??

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1187&pid=18899

Like I said, these people aren't new. Not a one of them.

[Bobbie Jo]

44. Yes, actually I should have quoted that one

instead, as I've quoted you twice already today.

In fact, I'm going to include it here:

Once you accept that alot of these people telling black folks what is or should be important to us and screaming because BLM dared to demand answers from Sanders live lives every bit as insular, narrow and devoid of minority presences as anybody on the right, everything else just falls into place.

I'm from Georgia. I have seen people like this every day of my life. Including the latching on to the black folks that will happily confirm their already held biases. There ain't nothing new about any of them, though they love to pretend otherwise.

The thing is, it THRILLS me to see a diversity of black thought and opinion. I am THRILLED that Sanders has black supporters although looking at many of his white supporters, I completely understand why so many have kept that so quiet. But the thing that pisses me off to no end is that if a black person here or "out there" says something that's in line with the DU Glitterati here, they can't run to rec that shit fast enough. Even if it's not born out in polls. Even if it's the complete antithesis of everything we see in black media. They will accept THAT as the truth, but not the 6,924 other articles and perspectives from other black people that say the complete opposite.

This is why I have no interest in white person after white person after white person in GD posting some article from some black Kos diarist, some brown kid on Youtube or some black "thinker." Because this same crowd would scream to the hills or ignore it completely if someone posted something from OTHER black people that said the opposite. There is no interest in what we think. The interest only lies in how happy we are to be USED by people that couldn't give the first shit about us and make that clear every minute of every day.

You absolutely called it and nailed it to the door.

[Number23]

45. I heard a rumor that Black Agenda Report was even trotted out here lately

Is that the impetus of this OP?

Because black people love BAR. The only way we could love it more was if it was 2-ply instead of 1.

[Bobbie Jo]

48. None other...

It's still sticking out like a sore thumb on page 1.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=473798

Yep...

[Number23]

50. Oh my God. That rec list...

The AA posters have been discussing BAR for YEARS. Most of DU has been discussing BAR for years. Literally for YEARS. BAR is not seen as reputable black media by anyone with a shred of dignity or a lick of sense.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8733124
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8650831
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4609629&mesg_id=4610477
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10168790
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022673836

And that was with a four minute Google search.

Every tombstoned troll and outed racist here loves them some BAR. So that's what's makes these "BAR? Never heard of it!1one Just saw the link and I thought I'd post it!1" posts (and always from the loudest, most clueless anti-Obama elements here) as stupidly predictable as they are hilarious.

[SidDithers]

51. Better Believe It!!...

Sid

[Number23]

52. Like I said Sid, "Every tombstoned troll and outed racist here loves them some BAR."

Of course BBI was able to straddle both of those descriptors.

[zappaman]

63. You know you're not surprised.

Admit it.

[AOR]

60. Number23 your posts are off the mark...

by many miles on BAR. I hated to bring this out but this has become beyond absurdity. You haven't a clue what you're talking about when it comes to Black Agenda Report and Black Lives Matter. Patrisse Cullors, Alicia Garza, Thandisizwe Chimurenga, Darnell Moore, Brittney Cooper among others are all affiliated with and some are founders of the Black Lives Matter movement. They ARE ALL also frequent guests and some are bloggers at Black Agenda Report.

Period and end of story.

[zappaman]

64. !!!

[AOR]

66. You dispute this zappaman ? Really ? Seriously ?

http://blacklivesmatter.com/category/brittney-cooper/

Brittney Cooper

http://www.blackagendareport.com/blog/11335


You want more ? I can dig em up very easily. Seriously man... this is beyond absurd zappaman.

[zappaman]

68. Uh huh

See you around.

[AOR]

70. This is very sad...

Thandisizwe Chimurenga's blog

http://www.blackagendareport.com/blog/2238

[zappaman]

71. I love Larry!

Great show!

[Number23]

67. You're free to worship that toilet paper. I mean "news" outlet if you want.

That's on you. I couldn't care less.

And the fact that BAR feels so happy smearing #BLM while so many of its writers (according to you) are integral members of that group does absolutely NOTHING but bolster my opinion that the rag is a piece of shit and supported by racists who look to BAR's editorial staff to call Obama all the racist names they couldn't get away with themselves.

[AOR]

69. Well some people can't admit when they're wrong...

Dixon wrote one article on Black Lives Matters and NRN. You are not even in the ballpark and ANYONE who reads there knows that Black Agenda Report has been covering the movement in depth. Beyond that... many people in the movement involved with the causes of Black leftists and Black Agenda Report do not consider the policies of Barack Obama to be helpful to the struggle on the ground in the least. Your posts on this issue are beyond ridiculous. You are a believer in Obama ? Fine. Others aren't.

Just admit that the problem with BAR for some is that the writers and leftist activists there do not agree with the Neoliberal policies of Barack Obama. Your posts on this are a joke for anyone who is paying attention.

[Number23]

73. BAR has a well established reputation for printing some of the most fact free, unhinged bullshit

related to this president and to the black community as a whole. Not only do I feel this way, but every person whose opinion I trust or am interested in feels the same. For every article or commentary they get right, they get 192 wrong.

What's ridiculous is you chasing after me or anyone else on this site -- when you're not single handedly trying to eradicate capitalism, that is -- and telling us we are "wrong" for feeling that BAR is a left wing looney bin for the 12 black people who feel the same way that you and Glen Ford do. Judging by the quality and caliber of your posts, it doesn't surprise me in the least that you would be such a massive fan and defender of such a revolting publication.

[AOR]

74. Opinions vary and yours is not one that is dominant...

in leftist circles on the net by any stretch of the imagination. Your opinion of BAR is not the point. Many like yourself are claiming that BAR is not involved in the activism of Black Lives Matter which is beyond laughable. BAR is part of Black Lives Matters activism as the links I provided prove beyond a shadow of a doubt. Your posts on this are pure posturing. You can have the last word. Anyone reading those links - that are behind THE Black Lives Matters movement - knows that Black Agenda Report and many in the movement are on the same page. That is a FACT.

[Number23]

75. Lol You are so busy trying to fight with everybody on this site that you don't even know

who said what, who you're fighting with or why.

I honestly don't know why you are so gung ho about BAR but PLEASE BELIEVE me when I tell you I couldn't care less.

I was not the one that mentioned #BLM as it relates to BAR, YOU WERE. I have never said that they were not involved in #BLM. And I noted that if BAR is as an integral to #BLM as YOU said it was, then that makes BAR's trashing of #BLM even more disgusting, though not at all surprising given the caliber of its staff and apparently its supporters.

BAR is currently trashing Bernie Sanders' campaign for president. http://www.blackagendareport.com/node/4604 Wonder how come the person who polluted this forum with the previous BAR story didn't post this one???

But when clickbait and bullshit is the name of the game, I guess everyone is up for grabs, from the "neoliberal" Obama to the "warmongering, NRA supported" Sanders. I honestly can't thank you enough for proving my point about that revolting rag and those who read it. Seriously. Thank you.

[AOR]

78. Again BAR is a leftist website...

those who are holding onto Capitalism and two-party politics as the end of history will not take a liking to BAR. It is what it is. And you are correct that BAR is not endorsing the campaign of Bernie Sanders running as a Democrat nor are they supporting Hillary Clinton. I fight with nobody. I post and await response and respond. My responses are quite mild in the "fighting" department after witnessing many of the squabbles of the primary battle going on here. It makes me laugh really. The Liberal/Progressive faction and the New Democrats faction are have been pounding each other into oblivion for ages and you're calling my posts "fighting." Very strange outlook.

[Number23]

79. Again, I thank you for proving my point about BAR and its readers.

You should probably head out now. Capitalism isn't going to kill itself, you know.

[bravenak]

81. Good God.

[Number23]

82. Girl, dismantling a country's economic system is HARD WORK. Give that wo/man some respect!

[bravenak]

87. I fucked around and broke the bad news to him that black people LIKE money earlier this week.

I think he has really taken the news quite badly.
He is really upset with the oligarchy.

[AOR]

83. The attitude you take in some of your posts is very damaging...

to forming any kind of solidarity on the ground in changing the status quo for the WHOLE. And people call leftists authoritarian and dogmatic. Maybe some want the status quo to remain and will fight to the end to protect it. Very authoritarian and dogmatic indeed.

[Number23]

86. Ok thanks byyyyyeeeeeee

[zappaman]

94. Lol!

[AOR]

84. Bravenak...you are behind Black Lives Matter movement right ?

and said you hated BAR with a passion. What do you make of the the leaders of the Black Lives Matter movement having a strong voice at Black Agenda Report ?

As I stated to Number23...Patrisse Cullors, Alicia Garza, Thandisizwe Chimurenga, Darnell Moore, Brittney Cooper among others are all affiliated with and some are founders of the Black Lives Matter movement. They ARE ALL also frequent guests and some are bloggers at Black Agenda Report.

Any answer to that contradiction ?

[bravenak]

88. The BAR is a joke.

Why are you so determined to promote that rag? Look at the number of twitter followers. Elon has more followers than the BAR. I swear I think the right wing gave Glenn Ford money to start that rag. Didn't they once call Kucinich BLACKER than Obama? That stupid rag is a tool to play white liberals like fiddles and lure them into thinking they are reading stuff black folks like. We do not like it. That is why we mostly do not read it. Black folks are not really for socialism, socialism has no answer for racsm. Kay? It is a joke on you. That publication. It's like how Atlass Shrugged is a joke on Libertarians.

[AOR]

89. You've not answered the question....

and I'm done playing games. There is an agenda going on alright and it's not the Black Agenda Report that is providing the bread and circus ridiculousness in these threads. Later

[bravenak]

90. There was no real question. You promote the BAR. We hate the BAR. It's very simple. Bye.

[TM99]

92. I am sorry but White is the joke.

He has wood to burn and rage is what he does now.

You and Number23 refuse to respond to the fact that founding members of BLM ARE a part of BAR.

Furthermore, your ignorance about 'black folks' and socialism is astounding. The Communist Party and various socialist workers organizations have been some of the strongest political allies of the African American community through out most of the 20th century. I would argue that without the connections with the greater socialist movement there literally would be no civil rights movement as we know it. From W.E.B. Du Bois to Angela Davis to MLK and Democratic Socialism, the very foundations of the modern AA civil rights movement is steeped in socialism. Du Bois was a Communist party member AND one of the original founders of the NAACP. Davis was a Communist party leader AND another strong civil rights leader.

To say that socialism has no answers for racism is prima faciae ignorance of the history of blacks in America and the entire civil rights movement. Multiple generations before yours understood that there is no social justice without economic justice AND there is no economic justice without social justice. To say we must attack the roots of institutionalized racism without recognizing the economic and class-ist components of those roots means nothing further will change.

http://www.marxist.com/black-struggle-and-socialist-revolution.htm

http://socialistworker.org/2010/11/18/race-and-us-socialist-tradition

It deeply disturbs and saddens me to see that New Dem propaganda is succeeding in splitting these apart and therefore splitting apart progressive POC and their authentic white allies.

[bravenak]

93. Lol! Funny how I only have you speak to me when you need to chastise us black folks for your friends

It's kinda rude. Disrespectful. You know how it is with us black folks, you can't just come around to talk crazy to us, you have to actually form a bond with us to get treated like a part of the group. After how you acted in AA and in general the past few weeks, I have no idea how to respond to your Don Lemmoning.
Seriously. You know the phrase 'check yourself before you wreck yourself?' I swear that pops up in my head whenever I even SEE your name.

Now, I do not need your lecture from 'A More Enlightened Negro' anymore. The way you talk down to me is sickening and feels either sexist or something gross and weird. Like maybe I'm just a field negro and you gon splain to my ignant ass how to think right.

If you find yourself having a hard time connecting with members of your own community, maybe it's not that they are just soooooo dumb and wrong headed, but that you are on a soapbox.
Be respectful if you want a straight answer.

[TM99]

96. Typical Millennial response I see.

All snark, no substance.

Ignorance exists in all communities.

Back to Ignore where you obviously belong.

[bravenak]

97. Love the way you denigrate me. So gratifying.

[Cha]

104. Another badge of honor for you.. I'm so jealous!

[bravenak]

107. Racking them up all over the place, huh?

I must be a fucking asshole.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

115. Dr. King was accused of being the pawn of outside forces

Dr. King was accused of being the pawn of outside forces, among them communists, and he explicitly rejected that accusation. He consistently argued that the civil rights movement was organic and uniquely American in demanding it live up to its ideals.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

116. I don't understand why folks can't put people on 'Ignore'...

I don't understand why folks just can't put people on 'Ignore' without taking the rhetorical version of a bowel movement on them on the way out.

[Number23]

100. There are several black Sanders supporters that are REGULARS in the AA forum. Isn't it interesting

how no on in the forum has any problem with them? Hell, there are WHITE Sanders supporters that no one has even the tiniest problem with in the AA forum either. Is it possible that it's because none of them ever feel the need to be so nasty? So patronizing? And especially when they don't know what they're talking about? You call it "Englightened Negro" but I can think of a lot more apt descriptions.

I addressed BAR. I addressed why I think BAR is full of shit. I addressed the "ties" between BAR and #BLM and said quite clearly that if it's true, then that somehow LOWERS my opinion of BAR even further. I even showed how long A LOT of other people here have been discussing BAR and how full of shit they are for years. I addressed how wrong and two dimensional BAR is.

If someone here doesn't think that I have adequately explained down to the minute details why I don't like BAR then it's probably perfectly fine that the people who feel that way are not people I have even the tiniest, most minute interest in explaining or discussing anything with them. They aren't owed a damn thing but contempt and that I give freely.

Edit: Oh and take that ignore and wear it as a fucking Badge of Honor, of Decency and of Insight that it is. Because to have one such as that one despise you so, I can think of no higher honor. And I mean that in ALL seriousness.

[bravenak]

103. That one put me on ignore because I'm a BIGOT who opposes POLYGAMY.

I have no use for folks like him.

[Number23]

105. "I'm a BIGOT who opposes POLYGAMY."

That's some head scratching stuff right there.

Good Lord. SOOO MANY issues. So little time.

[bravenak]

106. I cannot even understand that one.

The things people say to me on DU, they truly are breathtaking.

[AOR]

95. Hell of a post TM99...

[TM99]

98. It will be ignored.

I am not a part of the 'in' crowd because I am a progressive POC who supports Sanders and doesn't think all his 'white' allies are 'racists'.

I have not allowed myself to be suckered in by the Third Way supporters and their Rovian divisionary tactics which pits allies against allies, attacks a powerful candidate on one of his strengths, and does more harm to the BLM movement and other POC than it will help.

I am still waiting for them to get off their asses and get to Texas to start protesting Bland's death. I am also still waiting for them to start protesting other candidates and the Democratic party in total. I wonder how long I will be waiting.

[bravenak]

108. Waiting for them to 'get off their asses'? Like they have to follow your directions?

This is funny.

[Skittles]

99. what "discussion in the AA group"?

[1StrongBlackMan]

9. So rather than address my question directly, you post an OP ...

that avoids the root of the question: How is what you, and others, are doing any different from what conservatives do when they trot out Sowell and Jackson, as "see here's a negro that agrees with me" cover ... when anyone with a brain recognizes that the only reason these commentators are selected is because of their race.

Unless of course, it's a white HRC supporter doing so to buttress the Bernie sucks with PoC, they're 100% behind Hillary because she gets it, messaging

...

you have to wonder why only Sanders supporters face the suspicion of cynically exploiting minority voices.

Newsflash, and sorry ... that represents that mainstream of Black opinion ... well, not the "Bernie sucks" part; but, the HRC support part is ... so how can it be exploitive for anyone, white or otherwise, to post what Black folks, in the main, are saying? This is opposed to, white people posting the divergent opinions of Black people, for no other reason than to present the divergent opinion of a Black person, and solely, BECAUSE the opinion is from a Black person.

Yes ... It is quite the shitshow ... and tellingly, so.

[whatchamacallit]

11. Like if a Sanders supporter posts

the opinion of a woman who doesn't support Hillary? I'm still trying to figure out how you think it's ok to accuse Sanders supporters of RW style racism if they post the dissenting view of a PoC, while you're considering voting for O'Malley. Talk about disrespecting the mainstream of black opinion...

[1StrongBlackMan]

14. Is there a question of Sanders not connecting with women because ...

women are saying Bernie is ignoring women's issues in favor of issues that will not resolve the issues women have identified?

I'm still trying to figure out how you think it's ok to accuse Sanders supporters of RW style racism if they post the dissenting view of a PoC

Ask yourself ... would those dissenting views have any value; but for, their being pinned by PoC?

while you're considering voting for O'Malley. Talk about disrespecting the mainstream of black opinion...

How is that relevant? Is this where you tell me that Black people should hate O'Malley?

[whatchamacallit]

16. Earth to 1SBM

Your vote for Not Hillary is the ultimate expression of a dissenting view.

[1StrongBlackMan]

18. No ... It's not. Not on this Earth or anywhere else.

But that is immaterial to your use of Black voices ... because they are Black.

[whatchamacallit]

20. Yes, they were used because they are black

Last edited Sun Jul 26, 2015, 05:21 PM - Edit history (2)

to illustrate, in the face of overwhelming desire to push conformity, the AA community does indeed have independent voices. Deal with it. How can you make it your mission to protect and enforce a majority opinion that you plan to vote against?

[1StrongBlackMan]

22. Okay. That was easy ...

Yes, they were used because they were black to illustrate, in the face of overwhelming desire to push conformity, the AA community does indeed have independent voices

Now ... How is that different from conservatives using Sowell and Jackson to show the AA community does indeed have independent voices?

How can make it your mission to protect and enforce a majority opinion that you plan to vote against?

I do not plan to vote against anything ... as I have stated, I doubt I will get a primary vote. My state's primary is after Super Tuesday and most of the swing states.

[whatchamacallit]

25. Our conversations encapsulated

Me: Yay another opinion of a PoC that's different than what's getting shoved down our throats all day! Maybe there's hope!

You: How dare you quote a black person, racist!

Here's a question for you - At what percentage of black HRC support do whites posting black opinions go from Sowell and Jackson to something more innocuous? 75%, 50%...? If the landscape changes will you still be doing this song and dance?

[1StrongBlackMan]

32. LOL ...

Me: Yay another opinion of PoC that's different than what's getting shoved down our throats all day! Maybe there's hope!

You: How dare you quote a black person, racist!

Only in your mind! And that's the real problem ... the voices in your head.

Here's a question for you - At what percentage of black HRC support do whites posting their opinions go from Sowell and Jackson to something more innocuous? 75%, 50%...?

Well ... I don't know; but, it would have to be significantly higher than the current < 12%.

[whatchamacallit]

34. Ok you win

Anyone posting the dissenting view of a PoC is de facto racist, and if they don't see it that way it's because they're crazy. Congratulations on more of your fine work.

[1StrongBlackMan]

38. Now, This is exactly the problem ...

Anyone posting the dissenting view of a PoC is de facto racist, and if they don't see it that way it's because they're crazy.

I have neither said; nor, implied, either of those statements ... but, that is all you hear!

[whatchamacallit]

42. Right...

Now ... How is that different from conservatives using Sowell and Jackson to show the AA community does indeed have independent voices?

You're stating, as if fact, that a white posting such opinions is doing so for the same reasons as racially challenged conservatives.

Only in your mind! And that's the real problem ... the voices in your head.

So what's that if not a reference to the state of my mental health?

[1StrongBlackMan]

56. Is that NOT ...

WHY you selected the OP? ... Because it was written by a Black person in contradiction of the main stream Black opinion?

But that aside, even if you admitted to doing that (which you have) ... that doesn't make you a racist ... just as when conservatives do it, it doesn't make them racist ... it just makes you manipulative and a user.

So what's that if not a reference to the state of my mental health?

Okay ... I own that one. What should one take away when someone repeated says what hasn't been said ... despite numerous corrections. The only thing I can imagine is that person REALLY wants to believe what the uncorrected version of what they heard. So that is either flat out dishonesty or delusional (i.e., though, as a non-mental health professional, I don't know that the delusion would raise to the level of a mental health issue).

[whatchamacallit]

58. Ok then

I'm a "user"... As if everyone in a political forum doesn't use everything at their disposal to make their case. For example, the OP about Bernie that included the trophy hunters with their black prize. Gee that wasn't manipulative at all... Know this, regardless of your efforts to set the rules there will be more posts highlighting support for Bernie from PoC. We view it as a positive thing not a dividing thing. And if the numbers change, and I believe they will, you will have to deal or lose your shit.

[virtualobserver]

31. Under what circumstances would a Bernie supporter be allowed.....

to post the opinion of an AA person?

As the supporters of an underdog candidate,We Bernie supporters post anything legitimate that we can find that supports him.

We don't have the luxury of name recognition, or a full party structure behind him.

as for your question .." How is that different from conservatives using Sowell and Jackson to show the AA community does indeed have independent voices"

The difference is, we are quoting Democrats supporting a Democrat.

[1StrongBlackMan]

35. I beg to differ ...

The difference is, we are quoting Democrats supporting a Democrat.

These are progressives quoting progressives in support of a progressive.

[virtualobserver]

36. both statements are true n/t

[1StrongBlackMan]

40. Actually ...

No ... they are not.

The DUers that are posting these pieces may be "Democrats", as their self-acknowledged, 3rd or 4th political descriptor ... and I suspect the same for those writing the pieces ... and they are talking about someone that caucuses with; but, does not identify as, a Democrat.

[virtualobserver]

46. Since he is running for the Democratic nomination...

I am ready to welcome him into the fold.

[1StrongBlackMan]

53. As a Democrat, I would be more welcoming ...

if he would identify as a Democrat. I do, however, welcome his "we must change the game" message.

[pscot]

15. Some people know what you meant

even if you don't.

[sabrina 1]

19. It's called 'hypocrisy'. AAs are not supposed to support anyone BUT

whoever the Dem establishment thinks they should support.

You are paying waaaay too much attention to a few anti-Bernie voices here on DU which has zero relationship to the big world outside this small place. And even here they are very, very much in the minority.

There are also many minorities here on DU who do not identify as such, who totally disagree with those claiming to speak for them. They too are attacked for daring to differ with those claiming to speak for them.

Out on the vast Internet Information Highway, minorities are signing up for Bernie in record numbers.

His ONLY problem with Americans in general is 'they don't know him yet'. But that is being fixed, so I would not only NOT worry about those few voices here, I would ignore them because they do not speak for anyone but themselves.

[noiretextatique]

24. i agree with Bernie: you cannot have social justice without

economic justice...they are parallel. i don't think that position is remotely controversial.

[heaven05]

28. wouldn't be a "shitshow"

if the privileged Bernie supporters had not started hiding, banning, opinions that showed concern about a topic that a lot of people are concerned about. #BLACK LIVES MATTER. We didn't drop the ball. Yeah I have been dealing with one of the 'pretenders', not just with Bernie and #Black Lives Matter but back in the Obama election campaign also. They're here and easy to pick out because they can be spotted pretty easily by many criteria. They are not as sharp and slick as they assume they are. Bernie is tightening up, tweaking as it were his campaign, I would suggest some of his more blatantly biased supporters here do the same.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

29. Remember when they called Bill "the first black president"?

I get the feeling some people actually BELIEVE that crap.

[MisterP]

30. there's many currents about race moving about here--ethnicity's used "transactionally," let's say

Last edited Sun Jul 26, 2015, 11:23 PM - Edit history (1)

where there's As backing X and Bs for Y and whether A's appeal is more to X or to Y or whether B's is polling disproportionately lower among Ys than Zs; meanwhile the polling is still "A or B?"--pure horse-race mode, nothing much on "why?"

but the massive implication of the conversation is of course that "Sanders has a race problem": from that emerge "Sanders supporters have to be more respectful to BLM and less conspiratorial," "Sanders supporters need to listen a little on race," "white Sandersonians should be a little less defensive on race and stop telling Black people how to feel," "marching fifty years ago isn't enough on its own if you don't follow through," "where was Sanders on race before Netroots?" "Sanders shouldn't see race as secondary to economics," "Sanders needs backers who aren't whitebread clods"--it's all in the fine art of the unsaid: heck, WalMart pulled this same crap a while back and everyone saw through it then (though at least they didn't try to drag in Rodney King)

again this is all to change how people read the two candidates' record (and those NN Tweets): it's massaging and twisting more than distraction and diversion to depict the party establishment as the true advocate for minorities, against some economistic white old guy (I in fact know when economism's being used to distract from race/sex when I see it, in fact, and I do typically roundfile that sort of stuff); Sanders is more rock-solid on civil rights than any Senator I can recall, and in the top 10 of the past 40 years; Clinton backs and is backed by warmongers, polluters, "getting tough" on crime, Wall Street (redlining's heirs), and God-damn CCA of all things: as long as the can massage or dominate the conversation we can point to the facts all we like

it's a lot like how they want Sanders to be both so extreme "only 20%" of Americans "support" him, but also to depict Clinton as so lefty that she votes with Sanders 99.999% of the time or whatever

[Fuddnik]

33. It's a technique from Karl Roves playbook.

Do a full frontal assault on your opponents strongest trait. Try to turn their strongest points into liabilities.

Rove and his minions have pulled it out in every election they've ever been involved in, on the local, state, and national stage. Remember the judge in Mississippi who worked with abused children? They painted him as a child molester. Remember Swift Boat Veterans?

Now they insinuate that a good man, with a fifty year record of civil rights activism, doesn't really car about PoC.

A rovian smear from our side.

[GoneFishin]

49. It's a classic Rovian smear. And since they got nothing on Bernie's policies, desperation is

forcing them to resort to a smear campaign. And since Bernie has set a high bar by refusing to bad mouth Hillary, she is forced to use surrogates to smear him.

[DonCoquixote]

57. My point is not to defend Sanders

My point is this:

Is Hillary going to apologize for they way she blew every racial dog whistle?

That might seem minor to some, but if she does not, she basically says "I can be forgiven for anything, and I will turn on people under pressure, because I can hide behind Bill."

[Fawke Em]

61. I keep reading on DU that PoC don't like Bernie or whatever.

But, when I read about Bernie on my "Twitter Machine," I see as many black and Hispanic supporters as I do white ones.

Sure, it's anecdotal, but after a few days after the BLM protests at NrN, the complaints largely subsided. Now, I simply see a lot of young people of all colors (and surprisingly Southern) who are full-throttle behind Sanders. I also hear them quite frequently on the Progressive talk shows I listen to on Sirius - they state they are of xyz color and support him. They call into Stephanie Miller to complain about her HRC cheerleading, too.

Honestly, I think this was more of a DU phenomenon that a Real World one.

As more people are hearing his message, more people are supporting him in all colors.

[whatchamacallit]

62. Encouraging

[PatrickforO]

76. It is the divide and conquer method - with racial relations being used as a wedge issue to divide us

In addition, the concept of taking an opponent's strength and making it a perceived weakness is straight out of Karl Rove's handbook.

Though some suggest this originates in Clinton's camp, I'm thinking if you follow the money to the rock and turn it over, you will see the Koch brothers, wriggling like two wrinkly pale maggots.

[bravenak]

85. All you all have to do is stop complaining about Black Lives Matters, black poeple in general,

stop with the conspiracy theories, and join in the fight for Black lives. Instead we get the opposite. It really harms his campaign to have us running around telling every black person know the stuff you guys are saying and showing them screenshots of racist diatribes or CT's about Rove or Atwater, telling them about the condescention and paternalistic lecturing. I know I was firing up my gmail telling people. I never do that. But this, this right here; it was enough to have me screenshotting and emailing all week.

[ismnotwasm]

109. I disagree with that

The issue isn't about candidates, not on a deeper level. It has been pointed out that all three main democratic candidates will have to court the vote of people of color. All three candidates have made serious mistakes in doing so. What the deeper issue is, in my opinion, is politicians can no longer afford to ignore PoC, dismiss their concerns, use racist subtexts or think glad-handing is going to suffice. As brevenek says, (and she is no Hillary fan) candidates will have to come to them, not the other way around. So any honest analysis of who is doing what is going to be important this election cycle. To paraphrase an ancient song, the times are a' changed. It's no longer a white and male political world, and it's clearly awkward for some to accept this, as it brings fresh voices and completely different perspectives.

Judging by DU the last few weeks, many progressives should be ashamed. Racial injustice is not a shit show--it's a burning reality. Any candidate worth the presidency needs to step up and reach out to people of color. Any candidate at all.