Huddle Up: WEDGE ISSUES

[Cosmic Kitten]

X-Post from PRDP

We are witnessing the creation and
dissemination of WEDGE ISSUES
intended to create dissension,
instigate vitriolic debate, and
give the impression of disarray.

Recognizing a WEDGE ISSUE is the first
step in effectively avoiding the trap.

Read more:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12779544#post6

[JaneyVee]

1. And which issue are you referring to?

[Cosmic Kitten]

3. WEDGE ISSUES

Are you aware of any WEDGE ISSUES
being deployed within the Party?

[JaneyVee]

4. I am aware of the existence of WEDGE ISSUES, just...

Curious as to which WEDGE ISSUE you're referring to.

[Cosmic Kitten]

10. ALL of them!

An informed and educated "base"
is the key to success.

Do you want a catalog of WEDGE ISSUES?

Maybe we can work together to create one?

I'll start:

Bernie Sanders is a Gun Nut!

Some are Driving a WEDGE
on the HOT BUTTON ISSUE
of Gun Control.


Bernie Sanders, Gun Nut
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251406593

Bernie Sanders, Gun Nut..He supported the most reprehensible pro-gun legislation in recent memory
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026633818

Your turn

[JaneyVee]

20. Guns are a huge problem in America.

Another mass shooting last night at a movie theater in Louisiana by a 'lone white gunman'.

[Cosmic Kitten]

23. We live in a pathologically violent culture

Does that make Senator Sanders a "Gun Nut"?

Clearly, smearing the honorable Senator
is a loathsome, and reprehensible tactic

[BainsBane]

27. Indeed we do. And congressional support

for pro-gun legislation makes that possible. Pointing to his voting record on guns is no more reprehensible than pointing to Clinton's voting record on the Iraq War Resolution, which is to say it's not reprehensible at all. They were public servants and their votes are accountable to the public. You find that inconvenient because your singular concern is seeing one man elected.

[Cosmic Kitten]

30. That's false equivalence.

IWR was a crock of shit from the start.

We have a spineless or complicit
Congress that failed in their responsibility
and handed the reins over to the Neo-Cons
FFS

[sufrommich]

6. I have a guess.

[nc4bo]

8. Why oh why is my Spidey sense just a' tinglin?

I'll just sit on the bench to see which wedge issue OP is more concerned about than others.

That is fair.

[Cosmic Kitten]

12. Is Bernie a "Gun Nut"?

[DanTex]

24. Is Hillary a corporatist, owned by big banks, warmonger, etc.?

If you're making a call for civility, at least pretend you're not being completely one-sided about it.

[AtomicKitten]

40. "The clues are on the money, man."

Follow the money.

Hillary Clinton makes it hard to follow the money.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/03/hillary-clinton-makes-it-hard-to-follow-the-money/388988/

That conflict of interest was inappropriate for a cabinet secretary. It ought to be intolerable in a president.

[Cosmic Kitten]

14. Did you guess correctly?

Too Predictable

[marym625]

2. K&R!

[el_bryanto]

5. I don't know if I buy this

I support Sanders, because I believe he's most likely to do something about what I consider to be some of our biggest problems. But I can understand how someone with different priorities than me might support Hillary Clinton, on pragmatic terms. Calling an issue a wedge issue is a nice way to sweep it aside, but it doesn't change the fact that many people at DU and in the Democratic Party at large care deeply about those issues.

Bryant

[marym625]

7. If I may,

It is only because we all care that it can become a wedge issue. If people didn't care, no one would say anything.

It's how we address what we care about that causes the wedge.

[Cosmic Kitten]

11. Exactly! we all care!

The false narrative that we don't care i
s how wedges are inserted.

Then the inevitable attempts to prove
we care results in strengthening
the false narrative that there is
any division within the base

[marym625]

13. I really am trying to step away from this

And have done only fair in that. But imho, this should be the response:

The message was sent. The message was received. The message was needed. The conversation by the candidates has changed because of it. We need to talk about the message and forget anything else. We have to acknowledge that nothing else matters and do so by talking about the message itself. To whom it was addressed, how it was sent and how it was initially received is not what matters.

On that note, I have to run.

[Zorra]

17. Yes. And this is the point where the ignore feature becomes our friend.

Without an audience, those pushing wedge issues can only push them on each other, and those not pushing wedge issues are not compelled to feel they have something to prove.

[Cosmic Kitten]

18. I don't agree.

At issue is "who is the audience".

Personally, I abhor the ignore.

Ignoring issues, attacks, and relevent
points of contention will not make them go away.

I do appreciate that at time for our own
mental health we need to ignore issues
which push our buttons...
but then, that's the point of WEDGES
and HOT BUTTON politicking,
to create dissent and chaos.

Even if we ignore the ugly, others are reading it
and forming opinions on what may or may not
be valid arguments.

Choose your battles!

[Zorra]

21. Whatever works for you, I won't create a wedge issue over it.

Good OP! Thanks.

[mmonk]

9. Glad you mentioned George Carlin.

[NCTraveler]

15. Wedge issue in the terms being presented.

An unpopular issue my candidate hold that I don't want discussed. This is the primary. The time to vet our candidates on ALL issues.

[Cosmic Kitten]

16. Yes, vet the candidates on all issues!

However, vetting and smearing
are not synonymous

Distortions intended to leave a false
or unflattering impression is not vetting.

The dust up on Gun Control was a smear
and slanderous towards Senator Sanders.

By exploiting a HOT BUTTON issue
the detractors sought to drive a
WEDGE with a false narrative...
Gun Nut!!!11!11!!!!!1!

[NCTraveler]

19. Guns are not a wedge issue.

What you are talking about is defamation of character, which has nothing to do with wedge issues. I now see your calling gun issues wedge issues.

Some people who might disagree with Sanders that gun problems are a problem of gangs in LA and Chicago. This is not a "false narrative." This also isn't "slanderous." Yet you are attempting to shut down discussion on the topic as a whole with respect to Sanders.

Here are some people who I wish could stand up and argue that guns aren't a problem of gangs in LA and Chicago.

Trayvon Martin

Clementa Pinckney

Sharonda Coleman Singleton

Tywanza Sanders

Ethel Lance

Susie Jackson

Cynthia Hurd

Myra Thompson

Daniel Simmons Sr.

DePayne Middleton Doctor

Hundreds more can be added to this list. None killed by gang members in LA, Chicago, or any other area. I understand you don't want Sanders record distorted or lied about. That is completely different from any way a wedge issue can be discussed. Your wedge issue of guns is life and death for many of us. You are attempting to address the distortion of records by including the shutting down of debate on a serious topic. Take the lies on one by one. Don't attempt to shut down discussion on an issue that is killing Americans left and right.

You completely backed up my initial reply with yours.

[Cosmic Kitten]

26. The 2nd Amendment has become a WEDGE ISSUE

To argue that political forces are NOT
exploiting fear uncertainty and doubt (FUD)
is either missing the big picture, or denial?

When right-wingers make political hay,
such as the Gubmint is gonna take yer guns!!!1!11!

This is a textbook WEDGE ISSUE.
http://crooksandliars.com/cltv/2015/04/gun-groups-hysterical-warning-obama

[NCTraveler]

31. Now you are difining wedge issue in an even different manner.

Both blatantly false. Don't attempt to shut down discussion about one of the most important topics facing us today. Fight against the NRA. Don't sit down and shut up for them. You have now fully attempted to expand your thoughts on what wedge issues are in order to meet your personal agenda. That creates a wedge on its own. The NRA wants nothing more than for good progressives to stop discussing this issue.

[Cosmic Kitten]

33. How so?

Now you are difining wedge issue in an even different manner.

How has the definition changed?

This is not an OP about 2nd Ammendament issues.

This OP is about WEDGE ISSUES

If you want to speak about gun violence
start your own OP.

Otherwise please try to stay on topic

[NCTraveler]

36. You brought up guns as a wedge issue.

Last edited Fri Jul 24, 2015, 01:14 PM - Edit history (1)

Clearly is wasn't me as I completely disagree with your assertion that it is a wedge issue. You first attempted to define wedge issue as an issue that is discussed in a dishonest manner toward one person or a group. You are now defining it as simply something you don't want discussed. Both in error. Once again, you brought guns into it as your wedge issue. Not me.

[Cosmic Kitten]

41. Mmm Hmm? Are you reading ALL the posts?

Maybe you should tell us
YOUR definition of a WEDGE ISSUE?

It seems you want to re-frame WEDGE ISSUES
as "something you don't want discussed."

Lets discuss EVERYTHING, OK!

Just refrain from smears, slander,
and intentionally misrepresenting
other' peoples POV or their actual words.

[NCTraveler]

46. Read all posts.

It is clear.

"Lets discuss EVERYTHING, OK!"

One of us is holding this position.

It seems you want to re-frame WEDGE ISSUES
as "something you don't want discussed."

Truly as close as one could come to a cut and paste of what I said.

"Just refrain from smears, slander,
and intentionally misrepresenting
other' peoples POV or their actual words."

Perfectly put. That includes the attempt to stifle the discussion of issues by redefining wedge issues to conform with personal interests.

Guns are not a wedge issue. I would hope you agree on that. As I said, I have names in the thousands who can no longer present their side on what you are trying to label a wedge issue.

It is clear you need some help with what you are labeling wedge issues. I will help.

You literally attempted to define this as a wedge issue. "Bernie Sanders is a Gun Nut!" In your own words you said it is a wedge issue. It isn't even close to a wedge issue. It is simply an absurd statement. But simply calling it an absurd statement wouldn't accomplish your goal of wanting to shut down debate on a much larger topic, therefore you are attempting to label it all as wedge.

[Cosmic Kitten]

52. We are at loggerheads. I'm outtie

That includes the attempt to stifle the discussion of issues
by redefining wedge issues to conform with personal interests.

You seem to be projecting.
But it's not worth quibbling over.

Good luck until next time

[JustAnotherGen]

28. This is an excellent list!

[DanTex]

25. But Bernie did vote for legal immunity for the gun industry.

And, unlike Hillary's vote for the IWR, he's standing by that vote to this day, and using NRA-style rhetoric (e.g. "you can't sue a baseball bat company if someone hits you with it" (which, BTW, is not true, you can sue the bat company, because bat companies don't have legal immunity).

[DanTex]

22. I was hoping that the BLM thing would finally have convinced the Bernie followers to stop

dismissing social issues as somehow secondary or "wedge issues". Guess I was wrong.

The biggest "wedge issue" on DU at least is the incessant Hillary bashing over pointless things like emails and speeches.

[BainsBane]

29. and the audacity of a Secretary of State

appearing in the same room with heads of government of other nations and former Secretaries of State of the US.

[BooScout]

38. WEDGE ISSUE!

Citizen's arrest! Citizen's arrest!

[Cosmic Kitten]

32. You don't seen to comprehend what a WEDGE ISSUE is?

Or are you practicing false narratives?

I was hoping that the BLM
thing would finally have convinced the Bernie
followers to stop dismissing social issues as
somehow secondary or "wedge issues"

So the narrative is:
Bernie followers are dismissing social issues as
somehow secondary?

That's a nice example of a straw man,
false narrative, and wedge all rolled into one!

Links to Bernie followers dismissing "Social issues"?

[DanTex]

35. An example of Bernie followers dismissing social issues? You, right here.

By calling them "wedge issues" and divisive.

[Cosmic Kitten]

42. Link or slink

Apparently you don't comprehend the
crystal clear explanation of WEDGE ISSUES?

[geek tragedy]

34. What "wedge issues" are we supposed to ignore? nt

[NCTraveler]

39. The crux of their true concern was ferreted out in post 16.

It was pretty clear by the tone there was something other than true wedge issues at play here.

[Cosmic Kitten]

44. Clear "by the tone" LOL

Project much?

[NCTraveler]

47. I have been calm and consistent throughout.

When I asked what wedge issue you were talking about, you clearly went to guns. You minced no words. It is not projection on my part when it is your op, your attempt to redefine wedge issues, and now you claiming my projection. Please look at the tone of your replies throughout. Sometimes self-reflection is extremely important. I'm not the one redefining wedge issues in order to stifle debate or rolling out cute little similes as I dismiss gun issues.

[Cosmic Kitten]

43. Louis Gutierezz insinuated Bernie is prejudiced against immigrants

Luis Gutierrez insinuated Bernie is prejudiced
against immigrants and is a "SOCIALIST!!!11!11!!!

Speaking with Larry King on his show, "PoliticKING," Rep. Luis Gutierrez (D-Ill.) gave other Democratic presidential contenders like Hillary Clinton and Martin O'Malley passing grades on immigration. But Sanders, who announced his run for the White House last month, failed to make the cut.

"We've got the socialist; uh I can't remember his name. Bernie Sanders. I don’t know if he likes immigrants, because he doesn't seem to talk about immigrants. But sooner or later he’ll tell us. I hope he likes immigrants. I haven’t heard him say anything. He’s been kind of quiet and silent. So I hope that when he sees this program he sees that there’s a lot of people waiting to hear from him," said Gutierrez, a member of the House Judiciary Committee who advocates on behalf of comprehensive immigration reform.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/11/luis-gutierrez-bernie-sanders-immigration_n_7562320.html

Gutierrez smears, and misrepresents Bernie
all in one interview... I can't remember his name
Bernie is the child of an immigrant family FFS
If that's not dog whistle politicking...

BTW, EFFFFFF Gutierrez

[NCTraveler]

48. Gutierrez. Great progressive and one of our leaders on immigration reform.

What he said about Sanders was stupid, dishonest, and worthy of scorn. It isn't worth throwing out one of the best advocates for immigrants progressives have. He is an amazingly compassionate man who spends so much time helping others. If one strike is your policy, you wouldn't be posting here anymore.

You are talking about the one of the Latino communities greatest advocates. I hope at some point he and Sanders can sit down and talk. For good reason, he has done more for Latino communities and understands their needs better than Sanders. If Sanders is elected, these two will be working very closely together on this issue. The next President has to if they plan on progressive ideology winning the day in this area. Gutierrez is simply respected by the community almost as a whole.

Once again, you are attempting to redefine wedge issues as stupid comments. Something they simply aren't.

[geek tragedy]

50. that's not a wedge issue, that's a gutterball attack.

that doesn't mean we should avoid discussing immigration

[Cosmic Kitten]

53. Indeed. But are the issues mutually exclusive?

A gutterball attack can be linked to a WEDGE, right?

Gutierrez deliberately smeared Bernie
while feigning ignorance.

It was shameful and reflects poorly
on Hillary followers.

Same goes for Claire McCaskill's pejorative
and misleading use of the term "SOCIALIST"!!!!11!11!

That's two Hillary followers who have attempted to
knowingly mislead the public and smear Senator Sanders.
Pathetic

[BooScout]

37. So pointing out where your candidate is weak...

Is now just using wedge issues to divide then?

So it is no longer socially acceptable to point out if someone is not a Democrat, has very few black or Latino supporters, is weak on guns and gun control laws, has no structure or organization to his campaign, doesn't like protestors interupting him even though he brags about his own protest days, has only one issue they are running on ~ Revolution!.........okey doke then. Got the memo. If it is undefendable.....it's now a wedge issue.

[Cosmic Kitten]

45. Pout-rage is a cottage industry in the primary season

[BooScout]

56. Oh wow....another wedgie issue....

Citizen's Arrest! Citizen's Arrest!

[BainsBane]

49. Real issues: what you care about

Wedge issues: What other people care about.

[ibegurpard]

51. a wedge issue to one person

May be life or death or someone else.

[Cosmic Kitten]

55. It's not the issue itself...

And that contributes to the
contentious nature of the debates.

Indeed, many of these concerns are life and death.

What IS at issue is how they are approached
and to whom they are directed.

School prayer is a "WEDGE ISSUE".
Clearly not life or death, right?

Immigration is a "WEDGE ISSUE".
Obviously, lives do hang in the balance.

With immigration, the WEDGE is introduced
when it's used deliberately to divide people
based on fear and prejudice.

The Donald stated that immigrants are raping people!

Is that not a bigoted and divisive WEDGE intended to stoke
fear and paranoia among the right-wing base?

"Well, somebody's doing the raping, Don! I mean somebody's doing it! Who's doing the raping? Who's doing the raping?" he asked.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/01/politics/donald-trump-immigrants-raping-comments/

So, it's not that the immigration debate is or is not a WEDGE ISSUE.

This is about using social issues to divide people
based on smears, fears and prejudice.

[azmom]

57. We win when we show solidarity and build

alliances with all social movements that are also seeking genuine change.

[Cosmic Kitten]

58. That's how it's done!