2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumSanders and O'Malley were ambushed
Although some have said that the events were planned, it appears from the tape that neither O'Malley nor Sanders were informed. Bernie makes a comment about having been given 15 points to make his statements and answer questions, and O'Malley is taken completely by surprise. It's fine to have a PLANNED event, but schedule the timing and let the candidates know. To ambush them is counterproductive to the message. Either candidate would likely have been happy to participate in the BLM "session", and its placement between the two candidates, with both present, would have been very interesting and a fruitful dialogue could have been had. Instead, they are invited onto the stage as if the focus is to be on them, as the candidates, and then they are effectively pushed aside.
In other words, with the way this was handled by the organizers, it looks as though there was NOTHING that either candidate could have said or done at that moment that would have led to a fruitful dialogue as opposed to chanting over their honest attempts to get to the heart of the matter.
As for Bernie's continual focus on the economy, that IS critically at or near the heart of many racial tensions--a lack of jobs means a fight for jobs. Unfortunately, we still haven't gotten over the stigma that not having a job brings, so people who are not working are treated as lazy. With the unemployment figures for blacks the highest in the country, this situation feeds old stereotypes. Fixing the unemployment problem, fixing the incarceration program, higher wages, access to education--all these are structural problems that can be fixed and will play a role in diminishing racism, as people stop feeling threatened by what another might take away. (I am not talking about the rabid right--I don't know that there is anything that can help, beyond the elimination of Fox, a complete overhaul of the Texas Board of Education, and a couple of generations of better education.)
* end of rant *
bravenak
(34,648 posts)He has to be able to handle criticism without his supporters turning off the entirety of the black electorate.
Is this cryfest helping to draw more support? No. Stop. Figure out how to deal and find out why it turned out like that.
I'll give you a hint. If Bernie had black folks on his campaign, he would have KNOWN that was going to happen. I knew and I'm no fucking body. I read twitter. Black twitter. Anyone can view. Since I read things that black people say, I knew that they were going to do that. I keep trying to tell people that bernie needs black folks around to win blavk voters over, but I keep getting lectured on civil rights and Dr, King and how LUCKY I'd be to have Bernie as my president!! So condescending. All this aunt pitty patty stuff looks terrible. 'Those unruly negores ambushed him!!!' That's what we see when you all write this stuff. This is me helping you get it.
scarletwoman
(31,893 posts)We white folk are aggrieved, aggrieved, I tell you! Attention must be paid!!!!
(gads I just want to stab my eyes out when I read some of this stuff...)
bravenak
(34,648 posts)It has to stop before I rip my face off. They just go on and on. Victims.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)Republicans being paid to ratfuck Bernie with the black community. Sadly, I'm sure most of it is thoughtless outrage from actual folks on the left.
(Edit to avoid confusion: I'm referring to the outrage diaries and comments here, not the protest.)
bravenak
(34,648 posts)RiverLover
(7,830 posts)To the uninformed, it makes him look like a racist because why would they protest him if he wasn't a racist?
That's a way to get out the vote & get people in office who will actually DO something for PoC! Makes all the sense in the world.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)Even if it's a candidate I favour.
The only way we actually get BETTER candidates, who actually DO things for us when they get in office is to demand that they actually earn our votes. BLM has said this is just the beginning. I will applaud all the harder if they chivvy every candidate from here til the end of the primary and beyond.
I want Bernie to win, but I want him to DESERVE to win. And BLM is pressing him to be a better progressive.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)And his supporters can stop being all Miss Millie about this and try to learn something from it.
Now, going back to Robinhood, Men in Tights.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)Or however his name is spelled? He was in a surprising number of good movies.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)The Princess Bride... I even bought the book. Love him!! My favorite blond besides Ivan Drago.
London Lover Man
(371 posts)Are you referring to Dolph Lundgren?
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Red Knight
(704 posts)Did it make a difference? I get that black people want to see more black faces around him but ultimately when it comes to fixing the actual problem it means less than what he would do.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Red Knight
(704 posts)Nm
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Red Knight
(704 posts)Nm
hedda_foil
(16,376 posts)zappaman
(20,606 posts)I worked on that movie way back when.
93 thereabouts?
bravenak
(34,648 posts)SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Assuming he hasn't by this point, completely agree. He's a fool if he doesn't. Hope he isn't a fool.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Betrays a complete lack of understanding of the nature of racism.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)But we disagree a lot of tactics, strategy, messaging, and so on. Ie, we disagree on politics, not on underlying justice and injustice.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)Or did Hillary do this?
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)I applaud the BLM folks for demanding that candidates earn their votes.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)Cylon!
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Maybe I'm the leader of this mission?!?
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)When Clinton has to face the same protestors doing hte same thing at one of her events, bravenak will be saying the same thing she's saying right now.
On the other hand? There's very definitely a contingent of people here who are basically just cynical opportunists for clinton, who will absolutely condemn and spit on these same protesters, should they target Clinton.
Cha
(297,885 posts)activists of #BlackLivesMatter don't let other people do their thinking for them.
Netroots Notebook: Sanders Slips, O'Malley Misses, #BlackLivesMatter Wins
by Jason Johnson
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/reporters-notebook-sanders-slips-omalley-misses-blacklivesmatter-wins-n394746
quickesst
(6,283 posts)zappaman
(20,606 posts)Cha
(297,885 posts)If I see one more Bernie acolyte mention that he marched with MLK, I'm going to burn the Internet to the ground. @EdDescault @Eclectablog
4:23 AM - 19 Jul 2015
That @AngryBlackLady tweet, sent out to her 35,000 followers, inspired Roderick Morrowwho runs the Black Guy Who Tips comedy podcast with his wife, Karento launch the mocking hashtag #BernieSoBlack:
Morrow, who goes by @rodimusprime on Twitter and has more than 11,000 followers, said he was surprised his impromptu hashtag suddenly took off. I just thought it was a funny joke! he told The Daily Beast. But he added that his lighthearted jab was rooted in a serious concern about Sanderss candidacy.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/07/19/blacktwitter-turns-on-bernie-sanders.html
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Gman
(24,780 posts)Just ask them, they'll tell you. Wait, don't ask. They'll tell you anyway whether you want to hear it or not. And you don't have time to hear it all.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)"Overbearing" hardly begins to describe it.
And it's almost ironic that these same folks, bless their pointy little heads, that scream louder than anyone about white privelege in fact use their white privilege to tell everyone what's best. And don't get that that's what they're doing.
Now I'm as white as they come, but the thing that makes me cringe most when talking to these folks is when I hear them say "I don't see color in someone." Now, to me, that's denying one of the things that makes that person unique. It's a part of the identity of who they are. Well intentioned but kinda clueless.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)I use quotation marks.
MADem
(135,425 posts)They're sensitive, and fragile, and their feelings might be hurt if you are too aggressive in your questioning!
because, well ... they're sensitive, and fragile, etc.
Response to Gman (Reply #76)
PotatoChip This message was self-deleted by its author.
Gman
(24,780 posts)I like the line "It's like they're trying to out-Black us." Ain't that the truth.
The Sanders campaign obviously needed a 2x4 upside the head. And think they may be getting it with mentioning the name of Sandra Bland the next day. But I'm not sure his supporters will ever get it.
Response to Gman (Reply #157)
PotatoChip This message was self-deleted by its author.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)But those white progressives talk to people in the AA community...all the time!
MADem
(135,425 posts)brentspeak
(18,290 posts)Response to brentspeak (Reply #140)
Post removed
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)And then they went even further off the deep end.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)lovemydog
(11,833 posts)It's a shame it falls on deaf ears.
ladjf
(17,320 posts)supporting black American causes, was chosen by BLM to be the first Presidential candidate to be shouted off the stage.
He was already their strongest ally. What about the dozen of so Republican Candidates.
The BLM has warned that they intend to shutdown other political rallies.
BeyondGeography
(39,390 posts)It was his biggest accomplishment on Saturday. Don't deny it to him.
ladjf
(17,320 posts)BeyondGeography
(39,390 posts)ladjf
(17,320 posts)My problem with your comments was that I wasn't sure whether you were referring to O'Malley or Sanders. I didn't understand what constituted "greatest accomplishment".
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)What, the troupe of clowns who won't get anywhere near the WH? Why would they even bother?
ladjf
(17,320 posts)BLM is helping the Republican Candidates.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)magical thyme
(14,881 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)magical thyme
(14,881 posts)and just look at how much the RW bozos in congress have already done, not to mention the RW presidents.
I'm all for protests. But when you take over rallies and don't allow the candidates to answer your questions, you're doing everybody a disservice, including yourself.
If they want to hear answers, they need to learn when to stop shouting and start listening. Here is a hint: that's usually immediately after they have asked their question. Stop shouting and let the candidate answer the question. If you don't like what you hear, then at least you'll be in a position to ask follow on questions.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)magical thyme
(14,881 posts)And if they were pissed off at O'Malley and Bernie, they should have told them why they were pissed off instead of just shouting at them.
In any event, I'm done with this on DU. I've sent my comments directly to BLM. They can make of the what they will.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)You guys never listen to one word that the black people here say. Never!!! I told you all!!! Nobody wanted to hear me. I'm trying to tell you now that getting pissy with BLM will just turn black folks off and Hillary will cha cha slide right into th white house. Let it go. Learn from this. Listen to us when we tell you what black folks think. We kinda are the black people you sprnd the most time with. We are helping you by telling u. Let it go. Make friends with BLM. Do not start a war over this with BLM or black twitter. I have watched this before. You will not come out looking good at all.
I want white people to listen to their black friend, me, and just chill.
HFRN
(1,469 posts)you might take a look at how you're saying it
that's what i do, when i have that problem, which i do from time to time
bravenak
(34,648 posts)HFRN
(1,469 posts)so you're saying that they don't know, or want to know, what black people think. But *you* already know, and therefor do not need to hear, what they think. is that correct?
but more to my point - in your 'i am pissed' post, a few posts up thread, you use multiple exclamation points a few times. I have yet to see multiple exclamation points produce a positive result in electronic communications at any time, ever. You can demand that it should all you want. But it won't happen, or at least itf it did, it would be the first time I ever saw it happen
bravenak
(34,648 posts)It will work cause they'll see today that they are acting up and not winning over black people by bombarding BLM and black twitter with bitterly nasty tweets on how dare they oppress Bernie, after all he's done for you people.
And exclamation point are mine to use. Back up off my punctuation before I get madder. Stop the lecturing about punctuation. White people constantly do that without even thinking to check themselves. You think I don't know that more exclamation ponts won't win the argument? What do you think, you're schooling me? See what I mean? I do not need your help. I do not need a grammar teacher. I fucking know how to write Damn! Can't take a damn day off from tyring to TEACH black people stuff? Shit!
HFRN
(1,469 posts)my point being, the anonymity of the internet is actually an opportunity to test some things about how others react to one's self without others having any idea about what race you are (or anything else about you, either) - to test how much of one's experience is about race (admittedly, much of it is) vs one's own choice of behavior/manners.
in most things on the internet, people have no idea what race I am
MADem
(135,425 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)Why aren't you GRATEFUL? After all, you'll get the crumbs from the feast AFTER BLM helps the hero ascend the throne!
And don't speak too HARSHLY, now...you don't want to hurt anyone's feelings!!!!
ing, because if I don't, I'd be ing.....
It was the conspiracy theories that really pissed me off.
HFRN
(1,469 posts)when you have to resort to putting your own words in someone else's mouth, rather than debate what they actually said
MADem
(135,425 posts)Is your irony meter broken, there, along with your spell-check?
HFRN
(1,469 posts)so my apologies, if i mixed up who was responding to who
(see how helpful a softer tone can be?)
MADem
(135,425 posts)"Angry black woman" and "scary black man" tropes just don't work as a push-back tactic anymore. You can mash that button all day, that elevator ain't coming when called.
Enough is more than enough. It's past time people started not just listening, but HEARING what is being said to them.
840high
(17,196 posts)people say in my neighborhood - here not so much. DU is a tiny fragment of the black population.
nc4bo
(17,651 posts)There are some things that black people feel comfortable only discussing with other black people. I don't know your race. I happen to be black and I can assure you it's true.
I'm sure there are some things that white folk feel comfortable only discussing with other white folk. I'm not white but can bet with the best that this is also true.
Lesson is, don't get too comfortable in thinking you KNOW what's up with folks, unless you are "one of them" you only know what they WANT you to know.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)Alexa100
(8 posts)"
If they want to hear answers, they need to learn when to stop shouting and start listening. Here is a hint: that's usually immediately after they have asked their question. Stop shouting and let the candidate answer the question. If you don't like what you hear, then at least you'll be in a position to ask follow on questions."
Thank you !!
HFRN
(1,469 posts)being asked a question, then not allowed to answer
bullying, by any definition
[Alexa, you are nothing, if not laconic, 4 posts in 3 years)
mcar
(42,426 posts)to Code Pink, OWS and other activists?
BuelahWitch
(9,083 posts)If so, who? I know Code PInk went after war mongers. OWS received horrible treatment for going after Wall Street. I don't think you can compare them to what happened on Saturday.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)If you stopped to think about that a little bit, you would probably get what a lot of folks are trying to tell you.
BuelahWitch
(9,083 posts)I asked a question of the poster above and you decided to make this about me. Like all the other Hilary supporters, you are dancing with glee about this. I doubt you care about their issue as well, but it makes your candidate look good, so you can be all smug about it.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)sinned against Bernie.
BuelahWitch
(9,083 posts)and then we'll see what an "ally" you are.
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)I saw plenty of criticism of Code Pink's tactics I am not sure I was a member here at that time, but on other sites definitely. I saw a lot of critics here criticize OWS, they didn't like the bridge and street blocking and they thought the tents were stupid among other things. Protesters are rarely given much respect even from Democrats.
mcar
(42,426 posts)Code Pink, yes. I was more directing my question to the poster telling BLM to quiet down.
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)I read here daily often several times a day. I was also subscribed to the group and critics would actually post in there.
BuelahWitch
(9,083 posts)Not a lot, but some.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)just a question. I'm serious.....
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)I desperately fear another RW president. seriously.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)Last edited Tue Jul 21, 2015, 04:44 PM - Edit history (1)
just asking a question, seriously.....I love #Black Lives Matter and I mourn all from Emmett Till to Sandra Bland. And I'm tired of adding names to a list that shouldn't even be a list in this land of the free, (for some privileged) and home of the brave(who slam the heads and bodies of women to the ground). Yepper. Just checking.
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)and I fear that if they continue to not allow candidates to speak, it will be very damaging.
Yes, candidates need to be prepared to be attacked. They expect it from the other candidates. They expect it from the opposition. They expect it from the opposition's supporters.
But this was an ambush of "friendly fire." I still was ok with it right up and until they shouted O'Malley down when he tried to answer their question. That is when they lost me.
And I'm shocked at the spin I just read, claiming that the candidates in question haven't spoken to this issue in any of their speeches.
I haven't followed O'Malley, but what Bernie said that night in Phoenix was practically verbatim what has been in his prior speeches and talks.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)Last edited Tue Jul 21, 2015, 04:47 PM - Edit history (1)
you're entitled. Yet Bernie, O'malley, HRC in the WH.....a job will not stop the racist murders and that is what #Black Lives Matter demonstrated about. "Lost you"? Okay. Sandra Bland had a job. She still ended up dead for improper signaling. Killed? By a racist person or persons unknown. How does the viciousness of that escape the intellectuals on here? JOB security and defeating economic injustice did not help her. Can you deal with that? I know what Sanders said in Phoenix later and that's just a start. From Emmett Till(I remember my parents talking of that murder by the privileged of that day) to Sandra Bland, same intellectualized counsel on patience, how to demonstrate, whom to demonstrate against and when. It has NEVER been different, ever. Be calm, your piece of pie in the sky is coming.......guaranteed. Just ask Emmett Till and all others to Sandra Bland, so far.
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)did it change his thinking about how to address the murder of blacks by white cops? we don't even know what his thinking is. We can look up history and see what O'Malley did in the past, in Baltimore. Is there anything he would do differently, given a chance? We don't know because he didn't get to talk about it.
Do you know what Bernie's strategy is? Don't answer "create jobs" because that is just 1 piece of his more comprehensive strategy. He has other pieces, but nobody got to ask about them. (Hint: it has to do with returning to community policing, de-militarizing the police, training, etc.).
They succeeded in bringing their issue to the front. I just hope that in future rallies, which they've apparently announced they intend to take over from here on out, that they will let the candidates actually answer their questions.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)Last edited Tue Jul 21, 2015, 04:54 PM - Edit history (1)
nothing has changed. What don't you understand about that fact. I'll wait until one of them in is the main office in D.C to really see what the talk translates to in regard to #Black Lives Matter. All my responding to intellectual blather is not going to create justice or policies to generate justice and equality. If what Sanders says and promises, he does, if he makes it to the WH, then it will be a start. Action, not words speak the loudest. #Black Lives Matter actions are speaking and going to continue speaking the loudest. It is time for action, not just promises and words. From the present administration to the new administration, if it is 'Democratic'. Concise action and policy(s) to address RACIAL injustice is what really matters. SANDRA BLAND had a job.
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)"It is time for action, not just promises and words."
I'd say it's long past time for action.
"BLM's actions are speaking and going to continue speaking the loudest."
Which is just words, only louder.
From what I've read, Bernie met with their representatives after. I have little doubt that he will have listened.
If I had the opportunity to speak to Bernie, I'd suggest that when he's addressing BLM protesters, start with his statements recognizing police brutality and the mass incarceration of blacks, present his strategy as a multi-pronged approach, lead what he can do in the WH to specifically address police brutality and the incarceration of black people, and finish with the economic side of it.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)just a question, really...I'm serious.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)by going after the Republicans.
Nope, it has to be the Democrats. The Democrats are the only candidates equipped to address the problem.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)Since they actually are in office, and in position to do something about this RIGHT NOW, it would seem prudent to put the most pressure on them.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)they were speaking to more than Bernie (and O'Malley) ... their message was for the progressives (of the left), that's why the cose NRN, rather than, the Bernie event scheduled for later in the evening.
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)if that much, and couldn't figure out any of the meaning, other than when they were calling the names of the murdered black people. Even then, I could only decipher the names I was already familiar with. I did think I heard mother fucker this and mother fucker that in some of their chanting, but couldn't even be sure of that.
Indoor venues don't work well for shouting and chanting because of the way the sound echoes.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)okay........
BooScout
(10,406 posts)Netroots Nation has a well known history of interrupting and heckling politicians who are guest speakers. They have interrupted politicians before including Bill Clinton and Nancy Pelosi.
djean111
(14,255 posts)planned and executed. All over the world. Civil unrest. No, I am not saying that this is not a valid and terrible and legitimate problem, I am saying that this was carefully executed, and that it will be interesting to see which other candidates get ambushed. Soros backs Hillary.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)sufrommich
(22,871 posts)As I said in another post,I've never seen anything like it before.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Makes me ready to move to Westeros where things are simple.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)coa-coa puffs.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)both in under the radar times and openly like the last few days here, for 50 years. Just got worse when Obama got elected, then reelected.
HFRN
(1,469 posts)but is it really that different than talking about 'The Koch Brothers'?
they're both politically active Billionaires
bravenak
(34,648 posts)It's making even me crazy.
840high
(17,196 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)Raine1967
(11,589 posts)I really hope this is satire.
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)Seriously, has George Soros become a boogeyman of the far left now?
bravenak
(34,648 posts)udbcrzy2
(891 posts)We had paid protesters in Ferguson, not sure of their funding though.
Protesters provided Ordower with a list of organizations that should receive some of the money. But he rejected it, Rice said, and then delayed meetings with protesters.
On May 14, a group of protesters from different organizations showed up at MOREs offices on North Skinker Boulevard.
Snippets of video began to appear on Twitter under the hash tag #CutTheCheck, showing a group of familiar faces from the protests in Ferguson occupying MOREs offices and demanding that Ordower release the money.
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/ferguson-protesters-disagree-over-who-should-receive-donations/article_c51ff000-7579-5db4-95f2-27f5f3c2e19d.html
Arkana
(24,347 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)Now, ask yourself where you got that piece of sh... errrr, information, and maybe question why the site/individual where you got that bit of (cough) material (cough) would want to put that idea in your head....?
Hmmmm. You, yes YOU, may have been FUDded!!!
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)...who use the money for a variety of purposes. What they found untrue was that Soros was personally over-seeing what groups and how much were funded.
MADem
(135,425 posts)People can click on SNOPES and read the big lie contained therein--they can also find the WASHINGTON TIMES (right-wing, nut-job, sick-o newspaper) that was the source of that BLATANT falsehood.
That is a rightwing trope. Worthy of Free Republic or worse, not DU.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)"TRUE: A grant making network founded by George Soros provided funding to some groups that engaged in Ferguson-related protest activities"
"False: George Soros gave money to various groups for the express purpose of promoting Ferguson-related protests and riots"
http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/sorosferguson.asp
Despite being repeatedly provided the link, you continue to be deliberately untruthful.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Now read the whole piece at SNOPES--and everyone else reading this thread, please do so as well.
This Soros Funds Protesting Black People bullshit is a STORMFRONT topic of conversation--so yeah, keep dragging that shit in here.
FROM SNOPES:
Here's the BIG LIE:
According to various alarmist reports, Soros himself virtually single-handedly enabled and promoted protests connected with the Ferguson shooting because some of the groups involved (tangentially or otherwise) with activism-related events received some portion of their funding from the OSF network...
And here is the refutation of the BIG LIE:
...taking that information and converting it into the assertion Soros himself funded Ferguson-related protests and riots is problematic for a number of reasons. Although George Soros is the founder and chairman of OSF, he quite obviously does not personally oversee and approve every single grant made by the OSF network to the multitude of
organizations and programs that the network helps to fund. As well, the $33 million figure includes just about every organization with any connection to Ferguson-related activism that received monies from the OSF network, even if their involvement was tangential (such as publishing, writing, or promoting hashtags about the issue). And that such groups may have received part of their funding from the OSF network doesn't mean those funds were given for the specific purpose of organizing Ferguson-related protests, or with the knowledge or intent they would be used thusly.
As Kenneth Zimmerman, director of OSF's U.S. Programs observed, some of the groups involved have been receiving OSF funding since long before the Ferguson shooting was a political issue, and the OSF itself did not promote or direct Ferguson-related protests....
Read more at http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/sorosferguson.asp#xFzM01Fob7Mr1MFW.99
So when are you going to retract your untrue statement? You shouldn't repeat falsehoods on DU.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)It's right there, I even quoted it. You continue to be deliberately untruthful.
What snopes found true was that a George Soros foundation funded groups that engaged in protest related activities. Those activities can include printing signs and leaflets, acquiring video equipment, buying Internet time, providing food and water to protesters, providing first aid to protesters, etc.
What snopes found false is that George Soros personally funded groups for the express purpose of protesting or rioting.
There is a distinction between the two that you are deliberately ignoring and misrepresenting.
MADem
(135,425 posts)When are you going to retract your claims?
Straight from the WASHINGTON TIMES, that's where that shit you're shopping is coming from.
SHAME on you.
Divernan
(15,480 posts)ALERTER'S COMMENTS
this person is claiming that the #blacklivesmatter movement is actually a front group for rich billionaires. That is crazy talk and incredibly offensive to African-Americans
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840high
(17,196 posts)Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)for reals.
MADem
(135,425 posts)That is the source of the Nile. The right wing blogs (and ONLY the right wing blogs) have repeated it.
It popped up around the time Ferguson hit the news. Pretty sick.
Cosmocat
(14,579 posts)is SPOT on, exactly what this country needs to start to balance out the corporatist swing we have taken.
That said, while the paradigm is totally opposite, his messaging is the same as the republicans when it comes to minorities, particularly blacks.
They just spew their trickle down bullshit and sit around flummoxed how them there minorities just won't get on board 100 percent like their tribe does because things will magically get better if we just deregulate EVERYTHING, don't tax the super rich and kill every social support program they can get their hands on.
Again, before Bernie folks get deranged, while his economic vision would be good for everyone, just saying that does not address the audience at hand with minorities in a POLITICAL environment.
What Rs do for their base is feed them red meat 100 different ways.
I get, and like his laser like focus on the fundamentals.
But, like it or not, people are people, and in politics, in elections, there are strong tides that are shifted based on political messaging.
It is still a white person telling minorities that addressing an economic system they view (for good reasons) works against them is the answer to their problems.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)Messaging matters. Tone matters.
Nobody wants to hear it when I say it about them, but maybe they'll be willing to hear it when I say it about candidates.
Cosmocat
(14,579 posts)thank you for this response ...
Response to Cosmocat (Reply #7)
Betty Karlson This message was self-deleted by its author.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)Guess what? Once he's President, he's going to have to face a lot more 'ambushes', from all directions. Life doesn't announce itself.
Just be glad it's early in the season, so he's still got time to figure out what specific ideas he's got to work on ending police violence and sending police who do murder and brutalize to prison.
RiverLover
(7,830 posts)This past wkd, btw, would have been an excellent time for #BLM to have an actual dialogue with Bernie & O'M. You know, tell them "what specific ideas (they want them) to work on ending police violence and sending police who do murder and brutalize to prison."
But instead they just screamed & allowed the press to portray OUR candidates as racists.
NN planned ambush was an epic fail.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)Right now, as the polling shows, Hillary has the PoC vote on her side. BLM just handed Bernie the keys to the electoral kingdom, if he can figure out how to use them. He fumbled the handover, but he's got time to figure it out and start working on what ACTUALLY matters to Black America.
What people care about is not always what other people think they care about. BLM just told Bernie exactly how to win large chunks of the AA vote, if he's willing to take it seriously and actually work with it, rather than merely trying to tack it on to the message he's passing to white Americans.
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)Last edited Mon Jul 20, 2015, 09:31 AM - Edit history (1)
heaven05
(18,124 posts)instead of how to WORK with them.....hmmmmm...telling.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)Doubling down
Tripling down
Do you really not see how bad this looks?
Unbelievable...
Keep it up.
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)in the season too. It gives him time to boil it down to a 1/2 sentence soundbite (which is how much speaking time they allowed O'Malley) to maybe get the protesters to quiet down enough to actually listen.
whathehell
(29,100 posts):
heaven05
(18,124 posts)and neither one was good enough or fast on their feet enough to find the a way to deal with that ambush. I am glad it happened. I was able to see the real O'malley and Sanders in a tense situation and howe able to deal or not with it.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
Scuba
(53,475 posts)... long record on civil rights.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)Different audiences need to hear different messages. AND to have actions behind those messages.
Bernie's standard message is great for lots of folks. But it's not enough for everyone.
Don't just write off chunks of the electorate. That's a losing strategy. Take them seriously, and find the message they need, and the actions to back up that message.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)... only that the so-called "ambush" won't matter in the long run.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)Far too often, politicians simply seem to stumble around in the dark trying to figure out how to win votes.
Bernie just had it handed to him, exactly how to win away large chunks of the Obama alliance for his own. He just has to work with the community now to come up with specific policies to address the articulated need.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)mmonk
(52,589 posts)Sanders, for example, had been talking about the issue before NN. Also, there is nothing in his background to indicate he isn't sympathetic to the problem. It's best to move forward and Sanders and O'Malley handle it as to their positions on the issue.
Triana
(22,666 posts). . . and he gets his candidacy trashed by BLM folks.
I can't with that.
truebrit71
(20,805 posts)Staggeringly short-sighted...
Arkana
(24,347 posts)I dunno...that sounds awful like Hillary to me. You wouldn't want Bernie Sanders to look scripted, would you?
HFRN
(1,469 posts)he is for fairness to *everyone*, even the wealthy, although some wealthy will resent additional prosperity coming from creating value instead of the easier squeezing of the lower 99 percent
I say let Bernie be Bernie, he's been his own person this many years, why ask him to change now - those who choose to hear will know that he's going to give everyone a fair shake at nobody else's (unfair) expense, and those who don't hear that aren't going to hear it no matter what he says
raindaddy
(1,370 posts)If the purpose was to drowned out the one candidate who really wants to put and end to the class warfare that has been waged on the poor and middle class in America then mission accomplished..
bravenak
(34,648 posts)raindaddy
(1,370 posts)Shooting the messenger never accomplished anything...
bravenak
(34,648 posts)raindaddy
(1,370 posts)Showing up at a rally to repeatedly shout down a candidate who is already sympathetic to your cause even after you've been promised that he will respond to your questions makes no political sense.
Maybe you can explain how placing candidates who already what to change a racist system that favors corporations and Wall Street banks over the welfare of the poor and middle class in an impossible position was a success...
bravenak
(34,648 posts)yourout
(7,534 posts)from advancing is economic policy.
Outsourcing, H1Bs, and union busting have had a huge hand in the plight of the minority community.
Which candidate would fight the hardest to even the playing field?
Think about it.....
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)And are you part of the black community?
Why not ask THEM what they consider their biggest problems to be at the moment?
I'm not black, but I have a hunch, it might be the fact that it seems to be 'open season' on killing black people and getting a paid vacation for it, without indictments or convictions.
Maybe they'll be more willing to pay more attention to economics AFTER they're not being gunned down on a daily basis?
yourout
(7,534 posts)Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)We can't put one before the other, we've got to do both at once. It's a challenge and an opportunity at the same time.
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)sheesh......
raindaddy
(1,370 posts)So let's arrange a protest and drowned out his message... Make lot's of sense.
nc4bo
(17,651 posts)And what did SHE get for her economic progress?
Dont worry, it took me awhile to finally "get it" too. But I "got it" now and realize those who screamed that social injustice and economics are two separate issues were spot on.
wilsonbooks
(972 posts)The Poor Peoples Campaign was motivated by a desire for economic justice: the idea that all people should have what they need to live. King and the SCLC shifted their focus to these issues after observing that gains in civil rights had not improved the material conditions of life for many African Americans. The Poor Peoples Campaign was a multiracial effortincluding African-Americans, whites, Mexican-Americans, Puerto Ricans, and Native Americansaimed at alleviating poverty regardless of race.[1][2]
According to political historians such as Barbara Cruikshank, "the poor" did not particularly conceive of themselves as a unified group until President Lyndon Johnson's War on Poverty (declared in 1964) identified them as such.[3] Figures from the 1960 census, Bureau of Labor Statistics, U.S. Commerce Department, and the Federal Reserve estimated anywhere from 40 to 60 million Americansor 22 to 33 percentlived below the poverty line. At the same time, the nature of poverty itself was changing as America's population increasingly lived in cities, not farms (and could not grow its own food).[4] Poor African-Americans, particularly women, suffered from racism and sexism that amplified the impact of poverty, especially after "welfare mothers" became a nationally recognized concept.[5]
By 1968, the War on Poverty seemed like a failure, neglected by a Johnson administration (and Congress) that wanted to focus on the Vietnam War and increasingly saw anti-poverty programs as primarily helping African-Americans.[6] The Poor Peoples Campaign sought to address poverty through income and housing. The campaign would help the poor by dramatizing their needs, uniting all races under the commonality of hardship and presenting a plan to start to a solution.[7] Under the "economic bill of rights," the Poor People's Campaign asked for the federal government to prioritize helping the poor with a $30 billion anti-poverty package that included, among other demands, a commitment to full employment, a guaranteed annual income measure and more low-income housing.[8] The Poor Peoples Campaign was part of the second phase of the civil rights movement. King said, "We believe the highest patriotism demands the ending of the war and the opening of a bloodless war to final victory over racism and poverty".[9]
King wanted to bring poor people to Washington D.C., forcing politicians to see them and think about their needs: "We ought to come in mule carts, in old trucks, any kind of transportation people can get their hands on. People ought to come to Washington, sit down if necessary in the middle of the street and say, 'We are here; we are poor; we don't have any money; you have made us this way...and we've come to stay until you do something about it.'"[10]
bravenak
(34,648 posts)jalan48
(13,905 posts)with the issue. They could have then asked the candidates if they agree or disagree with his approach. Obama is the sitting President and is probably more sensitive to the issue than any President in history. Also, Obama is able to actually deal with the issue now, he has the power. Why wait two years until a new President is elected?
colsohlibgal
(5,275 posts)I've listened to Bernie for years and have heard him address racial issues.
The agenda Bernie has put forth should help us all, black or white.
Bernie I believe took part in the push for racial justice etc back in his youth.
I'm not sure about O'Malley, I don't know that much about him.
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)Black lives matter is bigger than any candidate and anyone who looks to use this for purely political advantage will get their ass handed to them.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Ambushed by a bunch of minorities. An ambush is what happened in the SC church. Not what happened to two rich white men at this event.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)I'm finding a net worth of $460,000 https://www.opensecrets.org/pfds/summary.php?cid=N00000528&year=2012 . In all likelihood, the bulk of that is a paid-off house.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)I do not think you understand the concept of "net worth". The value of his property went up. That does not mean there are piles of money laying around.
A 73 year old man who owns his own home is "wealthy"?
Yeah, a regular Donald Trump he is.
BainsBane
(53,093 posts)I read something about his wife getting a considerable sum of money from a college she worked at. I don't recall the details, but they have a combined family income.
By standards of average Americans, both of those men are rich. I don't, however, think that's why it looks bad. It looks bad because it seeks to delegitimate an activist movement that is fighting against an epidemic of police killings of African Americans.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)At his age, and given a total net worth of $460k and change, the largest component of his net worth is going to be his house.
Zorra
(27,670 posts)That's wealthy
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)artislife
(9,497 posts)I swear-----GET OVER IT.
I think Bernie is the best candidate on the table
But some of you whiney, dumb, and tone deaf Bernie supporters are making it hard to support him.
He doesn't need protecting.
If you waved a confederate flag, you wouldn't be more offensive.
STOP
Listen to the one or two AA posters we may have still on this site after all the teeth gnashing that has been done.
If you don't know any, go to the AA group to look at names
UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCE--Post anything. That is a hallowed space. It is not for you to "share" an opinion.
Listening is an active.
Try to WANT to understand
MisterP
(23,730 posts)artislife
(9,497 posts)I don't get what you mean exactly.
Do you mean that the people who are hurt because Bernie didn't get to speak are right?
Do you mean that the people who are offended by white tears or white priviledge are right?
This is an honest inquiry.
I posted this because I see this huge ripping of the left by people who just won't consider that they know best and that listening to what was being said is out of the question.
In thread after thread after thread.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)Do you have any idea how offensive you are?
GOODBYE.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)Protests are messy.
He was not prepared but he has a great opportunity now to step up and talk about what happened and about that movement in a way that brings people of color more into his campaign. He will be in the news and will have to say something. He can respond wonderfully.
I wonder who he has in his campaign advising him on issues regarding people of color. He could use more help in this department. My guess is that Clinton, after screwing up with people of color in the last election, has hired a person (or even a team) to help her know how to repond to things like this well. He can do the same.
tymorial
(3,433 posts)Identity Politics.
fredamae
(4,458 posts)quiet, PC, proper and steady.
Sometimes in a Working and Effective Democracy---it gets Noisy, Loud, Contentious, Humbling, Raw and Very Real.
Wake up, please.
I, personally....stand With these protesters - Did anyone Listen to what they had to Say? Isn't That the "hot issue" even over the Venue? They Captured our Attention. This (and Many more) discussion/debate Would. Not. Have. Happened. Otherwise.
They were Successful.
I think the responses after....in and of themselves are very revealing about our own "blinders"
Wake up, please. We have a National Human Rights Crises and it is an Emergency.
Geez, how many times and How many Decades can "we" simply tell Any Oppressed group to Sit down...be patient...we know and we'll get to you soon" - when "soon" NEVER gets here...How can "we progressives" be so complacent about that?
It's Not "ok" for us to continue to "go along with the status quo" as if WE too are just "sheep" following those who keep breaking promises to address this on Many, many different fronts.
Sure, it's the "easy way"..but it is Wrong.
I can't do much where I am......but I started calling senate members today to Demand Action toward Ending "Legalized" Police Abuse and Murder.....
It Is lawmakers who created this environment. They need to be held accountable too and in the meantime..they Must Fix this Crises-Immediately.
I cannot stand by and do Nothing. Not anymore.
We're wasting time trying to analyze this whole thing..when, imo...Action, en masse', is required because our fellow Americans, our friends and our family members are in Deep, deep trouble.....
Get busy, please.
just my opinion(s)
Babel_17
(5,400 posts)RandySF
(59,530 posts)Maedhros
(10,007 posts)as a bludgeon.
Stellar
(5,644 posts)"""As for Bernie's continual focus on the economy, that IS critically at or near the heart of many racial tensions--a lack of jobs means a fight for jobs. Unfortunately, we still haven't gotten over the stigma that not having a job brings, so people who are not working are treated as lazy. With the unemployment figures for blacks the highest in the country, this situation feeds old stereotypes. Fixing the unemployment problem, fixing the incarceration program, higher wages, access to education--all these are structural problems that can be fixed and will play a role in diminishing racism, as people stop feeling threatened by what another might take away. (I am not talking about the rabid right--I don't know that there is anything that can help, beyond the elimination of Fox, a complete overhaul of the Texas Board of Education, and a couple of generations of better education.)"""
Got to do with this- - - ->
#BlackLivesMatter is focused on individual cases and victims
The #BlackLivesMatter movement has its roots in campaigns in response to the deaths of particular young black men and women: Trayvon Martin, Renisha McBride, Eric Garner, Michael Brown. Those responses have grown into a sustained call for change in police/community relations and use-of-force policies, and for the media to be more respectful of black victims. But the focus on individual cases has remained both as a way to remind America of the actual victims of the status quo and to demand justice for individuals at the local level.
http://www.vox.com/2015/7/21/9010871/bernie-sanders-sandra-bland
BLM are basically talking about our brothers and sister being murdered by police with impunity. And most of you are talking about bread and butter issues which are important too but how will that help all the African Americans that are being killed.
Maybe Bernie can talk about body camera's and real training for police. And not rehire cops that have been let go from other police duties or departments to find themselves back in the same BS where they've killed another weaponless black person.
It makes one feel as though you don't want to listen, or don't care. Some of you only think we all must want the same things but apparently not.
eta: There was no need for 'rant'....as my son would say, it's the three 'L's' - Look, Listen and Learn.
RiverLover
(7,830 posts)Its too bad something like this couldn't have been discussed reasonably at Netroots with the candidates.
But I hope someone from Bernie's team, & O'Malley's, reads it now.
Stellar
(5,644 posts)I prefer Bernie but as dire as things are, they may take the first Democratic candidate that comes along that takes up their cause.
Maybe I know how long it's been because it's of great importance to me.
Response to flor-de-jasmim (Original post)
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