2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumBernie is making the same impossible promises as Alexis Tsipras the Greek Prime Minister.
How is Bernie going to change the banking system without having 60 votes in the Senate or control of the House. How would he get any of his false hope ideas out of committee.
Only folks who don't understand our government that the POTUS proposes and the Congress disposes.
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MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Can you share with us some of the impossible promises they're both making?
Sancho
(9,070 posts)at least on Bernie's part.
Maybe the correspondence to the exact item is a stretch, but a social system means that we spend more on people and less on the military. It also means a progressive tax system.
The US does not have a Congress that will comply.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)Like many other modern developed nations?
Sancho
(9,070 posts)Originally, the feds supported higher education with land grant colleges:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land-grant_university
More recently in the 20th century, they supported lots of funding with research grants and contracts.
Now, state funding is drying up, therefore tuition goes up. A higher percent are going to college, so we need more classrooms.
If you promise tuition, you need a way to pay for it and a system to support it. Bernie has a poor plan and a big promise.
Tuition is only one idea. Also a singe-payer health care system.
Without a Democratic Congress - all these ideas are DOA. Greece also has a problem of social support with too little money to pay for the promises.
One difference is that the US has the money, but not the government that will change the system.
Sancho
(9,070 posts)generally, they come up with ways to steal the money.
It makes it hard to support tuition no matter what the plan is to pay for it.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)By the same people who are constantly looking for Sanders to save the world. I can't help but think they're setting themselves up for a huge disappointment. Universal health care was never going to happen. But we are steps closer to making it palatable to the public. And very sick people cannot be denied how they were before.
Torture was ended, but he should have thrown the ex president in jail too! Unless Sanders is going to name himself a dictator, I think the chronically dissatisfied are going to stay that way, no matter who gets elected. I guess I'm just cynical.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)How are things going there?
What about the rest of the industrialized world?
Congress will comply when The People force them to comply. And the first step is a leader who fights for the right things, instead of utter garbage like "entitlement reforms" and "free trade agreements".
Sancho
(9,070 posts)by fixing voter registration and access to the polls, by allowing a path to citizenship for 20-30 million immigrants, and by eliminating gerrymandering.
Those are ALL part of Hillary's early platform, because she gets the problem.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)just to be clear: you agree that free tuition is a non-issue?
Sancho
(9,070 posts)Even if the feds cut the military in half and sent the money to pay tuition at State U., the GOP state legislatures would simply take the money and provide less support to State U., sell off more parts of State U. to private companies to get a profit, etc.
Just like they did with student loans for example. They find a way to steal the $s.
What is really needed is a federal plan like land-grant; that is comprehensive and won't allow for manipulation. There are no "federal universities" except things like military academies. You could create something (maybe online), but free tuition is way too simple. A President can't do it without Congress.
Also, you need to fix the voting systems and gerrymandering so that blue states (like Florida) by registration don't have red legislatures.
Response to Sancho (Reply #16)
MannyGoldstein This message was self-deleted by its author.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)When Americans see that Democrats have their best interests at heart - instead of being led by Neoliberal Triangulators - they'll elect more Democrats.
Sancho
(9,070 posts)All across the Sunbelt, there are often more Democrats than repubs. Remember when SC had Governor Riley (Clinton's sec of ed) or Florida elected Claude Pepper?
There are more Dems. in Fl now than repubs, but they lose just about every election.
Without election reform, voter access to polls, getting rid of grerrymandering, immigrant inclusion in voting, etc. - no matter how much they desire to do so, the Rick Scotts, Scott Walkers, Perrys, and Romneys will continue to win along with state legislatures exclusively red.
It's not neoliberal that is the problem, it's election/registration/access manipulation that is the number one issue to me.
If that was fixed, all other things will follow. I understand Gore's desire to create less chaos at the time, but in hindsight ALL the problems that have come along since the 2000 election were the result of NOT contesting the election that Gore won.
He threw in the towel for the "good of the order" and it was a big mistake that has created much of the current mess.
Tsipras is seeing the citizens attempt to vote against the bankers and European overlords, but to dig out of their problems will make much more than any one leader. The US has much more resources and we don't want to be under the economic thumb of China. Likely, that is why Obama is attempting the TPP - to avoid the US being like Greece 20-30 years from now. We can't continue to go without a trade policy that stands in contrast to a China influence. Maybe misguided, but I get the problem of economic blackmail. C-Span has the exact conversation on this morning, Greece, China, and financial markets.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Wow, that's an interesting thought.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)it would be a silly comparison.
Avalux
(35,015 posts)as it stands, our current system is imploding, and Congress has a dismal approval rating. Yes I know, with all the gerrymandering and loopholes, it's easy to have Reps and Senators elected without a majority from their respective areas, There are a lot of obstacles, if we choose to focus on the problems.
I'm doing this election a little differently. I'm choosing to focus on the solutions, the candidate who has solutions that align with what I think should be done, and then - one step at a time. We win the election and go from there.
No one can predict the future. We can go around in circles saying "yes I agree, but it will never work". Then group think happens, people throw up their hands and go with the candidate that fits best with the current system. Because it's easier.
The current system, the status quo, must change. That won't happen if we keep playing by those rules.
Autumn
(45,120 posts)about doing things to the banks just on the off chance I missed something he said.
rainy
(6,095 posts)all your dreams and hopes are impossible
What's that saying: "People who say it can't be done should get out of the way of the people who are doing it."
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)repayment and austerity and Bernie is saying no?
I didn't know that.
denbot
(9,901 posts)Difficult is doable, impossible just takes a little longer.
RiverLover
(7,830 posts)7/7/15
The U.S. government needs to implement greater financial reforms under the Dodd-Frank Act in order to address new risks, the International Monetary Fund said Tuesday. (Tweet This)
"Regulatory reforms remain incomplete and the structure of oversight has scope to be strengthened along a number of dimensions," the IMF said. "The regulatory landscape remains fragmented resulting in gaps, overlaps, and the potential for delayed responses to emerging risks, and should be simplified over time."
The IMF added that while the 2010 enactment of the Dodd-Frank Act, which created the Financial Stability Oversight Council, has taken steps to avoid another crisis similar to the one in 2008, it is not equipped to deal with the risks posed by "new pockets of vulnerabilities" which have emerged since.
"Risks are elevated in the non-bank sector, where 'run' and 'redemption' risks are increasing as a result of leverage and maturity transformation, and deeply interconnected wholesale funding chains. Insurers have taken on greater market risk and could be faced with negative equity in a downside scenario," the report also said, adding that large banks are even more interconnected than they were in 2010.
Aditya Narain, the IMF's Capital Markets Department division chief in financial sector analysis, said in a conference call that "these recommendations need to be implemented to avoid another financial crisis."...
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/imf-face-another-financial-crisis-143004892.html
We need leaders who are looking out for US, like Bernie. We are at risk without financial regulation overhaul. H*ll, even McCain knows this.
This OP....shameful.
Bjorn Against
(12,041 posts)I hate to break it to you but the Republicans won't vote for anything good. If we can't propose ideas that the Republicans won't vote for then no good ideas will be proposed.
I would much rather see Republicans vote down a good bill than to see a bad bill passed.
Igel
(35,383 posts)Tsipras was an opposition candidate. When he became part of the ruling party, he continued to be in the opposition. This often happens with politicians and parties--it takes them quite a while to unlearn habits. In the opposition, you take strong views knowing that they won't make it into law and things will still get done, but the strong views you push may nudge the legislation in your favor. Result is things get done and there's a bit of an improvement.
But if you're in opposition when you're in charge, all that happens is that you oppose ...
There's doubt Sanders can make the adjustment. When you see Congress stalemated, when you see Congress and the President deadlocked, it's because those in charge are in opposition, and demand either humiliation, capitulation, and total victory or they're happy just gumming up the works and making the other side look bad. "Total victory" in a democracy where the President isn't the president of a party but of a nation, where he works for the people and not part of the people is, or should be, a non sequitur. For all the rhetoric, that idea has largely died and left vestigial bits of rhetorical flotsam, and with its passing went much of what made American politics workable.
m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)99Forever
(14,524 posts)The Republicans aren't the only ones with a Clown Bus.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Very concerning concerns that should concern all Democrats.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)... like who's driving this Clown Bus and why it keeps going into the ditch.
ladjf
(17,320 posts)how the government is now functioning and perpetuate the same terrible results. That won't get anything good done.
Bernie is revealing, in precise ways, the big problems that are now plaguing our system with suggestions for solutions. His message is that if enough Americans understand the goals and elects competent people, it is possible to CHANGE how the government serves the people. Achieving those goals is difficult but ultimately doable. We are going to have to start at sometime. Why not 2016?
We don't need any more status quo.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,718 posts)Autumn
(45,120 posts)I might have missed it. TIA
rickford66
(5,530 posts)Bernie should ask for the Moon and maybe we'll get some traction on realistic issues. He can't do it alone. FDR told supporters "Make me".
LWolf
(46,179 posts)He's promised to fight for, to work for, people.
I've heard him make ONE promise: that overturning citizens' united is a litmus test for appointing anyone to the SC.
The rest are policy positions that he thinks we ought to adopt, and he's said they are what he will fight for.
Personally, I'd rather have a candidate who will fight for what is right than one who gives up before the fight because there are obstacles.
ion_theory
(235 posts)than as an ultimate goal of getting Sen. Sanders elected I think. That's not to say I will not be supporting him 100%, but we can't be looking for a quick fix here. It's taken the grand OLD party decades to bring us this far to the right, but hopefully won't take us as long to bring back sanity. Sen. Sanders becoming the POTUS would be exactly what this country needs, even if it's just knowing we have someone in the Exec. branch looking out for the actual population. He clearly has political awareness and sitting on multiple committees (Health, edu, labor, and ranking on budget committees come to mind), so don't count his get shit done ability out.
CTBlueboy
(154 posts)So we are suppose to bend to the will of the banking/wall st mafia ? wow
What is HRC going to do about the banking system ?
No one on Wall st went to jail for causing " The Great recession " and on top of that the Gov't gave them billions. Fed Polices such as QE benefited the "investment class".
Where is the bailout for the people of Main st, who have to work longer hours just to get by
Where is the bailout for the for the students getting crushed by student debt and ridiculous interest rates
So if Bernie cant uphold his promise what makes you think HRC will ?
drm604
(16,230 posts)or has he just said that they're things he believes in and that we should be fighting for?
djean111
(14,255 posts)impeachment, the GOP will, of course, be so much happier doing what Hillary wants to do.
How can anyone NOT recognise that this meme is ridiculous? The GOP, it seems to me, really dislike Hillary. A LOT.
So they are not going to work any better with Hillary, looks to me like the gridlock would be worse.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Are they not right wing enough for you? You advocate giving up before we try?
AOR
(692 posts)Sanders knows he can not get much done without the people and the workers behind him. He is not claiming he can be the "savior" alone that brings about real societal change. His message is one that resonates with the struggling and he wants people to be heard with there demands and organize and agitate around those demands. Simply voting for Bernie and leaving it there isn't going to cut it. There has to be a very real and organized movement behind his platform that sets the demands. There is no magic wand.
"Too long have the workers of the world waited for some Moses to lead them out of bondage. I would not lead you out if I could; for if you could be led out, you could be led back again. I would have you make up your minds there is nothing that you cannot do for yourselves."
--Eugene V. Debs
