2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumStopped in 7-11, 70 yr old man behind the counter, I wanted to know WHY!
I started off by saying "Have you heard of Bernie Sanders?"
He said maybe; I then said that he needed to give him a look and a listen because Bernie didnt want people his age to have to work to survive.
He liked that.
He was a veteran and wasn't getting the benefits he needed and was in the middle of working on that.
I tried to steer the conversation back to Bernie and stayed with him for 20 minutes, waiting in between customers to restart the conversation.
I told him about the cap on income on social security and that Bernie wanted to strengthen Social Security, not weaken it.
And when I left I said "Remember that name, Bernie Sanders"
As is usually the case, he wanted to talk about himself, so I kept pointing out how his issues and Bernie's positions, connected.
I mentioned at least once that on many of the issues Hillary was good as well and that both of them were far better than the alternative.
I dont think a 70 yr old veteran should have to work at 7-11 to survive, but that is just me.
Ms. Yertle
(466 posts)Maybe he *wants* to work. Both my dad and my f-i-l got part-time jobs after retirement. My f-i-l bagged groceries for years. In fact, his death was discovered when he didn't show up for work one day.
You can't always base judgments on your own biases. I think that's called--stereotyping??
randys1
(16,286 posts)simply mentioned that Bernie Sanders is trying to make things so people dont HAVE to work, which is when he mentioned some reasons why he had to work.
I guess my OP title is misleading , i didnt come out and ASK him why he was working , i crafted the conversation so he could tell me if he felt comfortable doing so while I educated him on Bernie and the left in general.
Ms. Yertle
(466 posts)states pretty clearly what your assumptions are.
randys1
(16,286 posts)I then spent 20 minutes telling him why the candidate on the left is good, and let him talk about himself so he could see why.
What I assumed has nothing to do with that I said or he said.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)Workers under the old system. Both get 80 percent of their pay in retirement and social security and both in their 70's work 20 hours a week. They love it. One works at Joann's so I am sure she is questioned about how unfair it is she is working. I'll ask her tonight when she gets home from work at 3.
Ms. Yertle
(466 posts)He retired at the age of 62 or so, went to work at McDonald's, and worked there MORE years than he had worked at his previous job! Another one who worked until he died. He loved it. Loved being around the young people. There are people, particularly of an earlier generation, who enjoyed working, felt it gave them a reason to get up in the a.m., wanted to be around people, wanted to get out of the house, or whatever.
BTW, I am willing to bet that your friend who works at Joann's is a serious crafter. She probably gets a nice discount, gets first pick of new merchandise, and spends her entire paycheck feeding her craft addiction!
brooklynite
(94,950 posts)...he liked being at the racetrack, so he figured why not get paid for it?
Divernan
(15,480 posts)Hangingon
(3,071 posts)After 37 years service, I don't get 80% retirement. The percentage is based on years of service and average pay. As a CSRS I am prohibited Social Security. FDR didn't approve. My wife is not a Fed and receives SS. I was required to sign a witnessed statement acknowledging that I would receive no survivor benefits on her SS. I work part time at a hardware store and I cannot see why it is unfair. Should all retirees not work or just Feds?
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)Which if you saved in your own account all that others did, you'd be pretty well off. To get 80 percent you needed 40 years. You left earlier then that.
Hangingon
(3,071 posts)We did save and invest while we were working. The investment income and pensions are comfortable but not luxurious. We're able To help the grand kids at college and take an occasional vacation.
I work at the hardware store because I enjoy it. I meet people and get to keep with up new tools. Many people in this area work in retirement for similar reasons. Others regretfully, like my boss, have to work.
As for SS I paid in 28 quarters and continue to pay now. I qualify even though I will never receive anything.
I suppose some would say I should not work. Others might need the job. In my case, the job was posted for a fair period and I was the only applicant. I think I return a fair days work for the pay.
mythology
(9,527 posts)there is a positive impact on wages for younger workers the more older workers remain working.
http://crr.bc.edu/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/IB_12-18-508.pdf
shraby
(21,946 posts)just isn't enough to pay the bills anymore. So part time work is necessary.
Ms. Yertle
(466 posts)And do you make assumptions about people's motives, based on your own biases?
shraby
(21,946 posts)pension. That's a known fact, not a bias. My grandparents had no pension and without 11 children, they would have been in a poor house. The social security was mighty slim back then.
Another known fact, not a bias.
I can look at people on my street that I know and the ones with no pension are still working cause their social security isn't enough and their homes are paid for.
Known facts, not a bias.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)social security COLAS and life saving dwindling make it a necessity. Aching old bones and sometimes sleepless nights don't make it easy. I live very modestly too, but unexpected expenses like a large car repair bill or dental bill makes it necessary.
HFRN
(1,469 posts)'when i look at you, i see an old person'
as i've gotten older, and my parent's generation even more so, i've become aware of how much it means to them to not be seen that way
randys1
(16,286 posts)like strengthening soc sec and so on
He and I had much in common and I worked off of that
Cleita
(75,480 posts)oldsters do unpaid volunteer work. I get pretty angry when the youngsters pile in on how much their older relative really like to work. It's bull shit. We'd rather be sitting on a beach on a Greek island sipping a nice retsina.
Ms. Yertle
(466 posts)It a mindset. See my previous posts. Both my father-in-law, my dad, and his friend could very well have retired to their couches and spent the rest of their lives there. They CHOSE not to do that, and lived happy, healthy, and productive lives for many years after retirement.
The uncle who spent his retirement years napping on the couch died after only a few years. Coincidence? Maybe, maybe not.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)The rest of us are not your family.
Your experience is only your own also; you don't speak for the rest of humanity.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)a lot of old people in a community full of retirees and everyone of them would like to be able to retire in comfort and travel instead of having to get by on noodles. But that too is anecdotal so I don't put it up as an verifiable stat.
"a poor person."
I hate assumptions.
LordGlenconner
(1,348 posts)And make sure he knows that all of his problems are the result of Hillary Clinton and the Turd Way.
randys1
(16,286 posts)Cleita
(75,480 posts)on Social Security and attempts to make deals with Republicans with schemes like chained CPI and raiding Medicare to pay for workers left unemployed with toxic trade deals and so many others over the years that have left most seniors in poverty. And I don't want to hear anything about not planning well for retirement. Many of us working class schlubbs did what we could at the time we could do it, but the rules of the game are to keep the poor that way throughout their lives and once we reach a time we are no longer useful to industry, we probably should do them the courtesy of dying.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)Cleita
(75,480 posts)whatever $15 a month (average) one got was more than wiped out by inflation that far exceeded that $15. It's been that way for the ten years I've been receiving it yet I know there was a time people could live on it.
gwheezie
(3,580 posts)I compare the situation my parents are in, late 80's and my mom never worked and my dad retired at 62. He worked 2 weeks a year as a consultant for his former company but did it more to see old friends than the money. He went to school on the gi bill and became an engineer. Every house they bought doubled or tripled when they sold it. That's how they financed their retirement. They are not wealthy and never were but they both are children of immigrants 1st born Americans and really lived the American dream.
Myself and siblings all work, own homes and have some savings but none of us are going to be able to do what my parents did. I am about 5 months away from being able to retire but I am going to keep working. I am going to keep working until I can't work anymore. I don't have enough value in my house or enough savings to last very long. Right now I am thinking maybe if I rent a room I could retire and stop working but I'm not ready to do that. So the decision is actually that I could retire but would drastically change my lifestyle vs keep working and try to improve my situation for when I have to stop working. I feel good and I like my job and had always thought I'd want to work a few days a month but reality is I am going to keep working because I have to.
So yes many older people work because they want to but even though they may not be poor, they are are working to supplement their income.
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)were forcing your political opinions on a total stranger, one who because he was at work, could not get away from you.
Think how annoyed you'd be if you had that job and some tea-partier started telling you about how taxes are entirely too high and the federal government is the enemy of us all and so on.
If he'd wanted to engage, one thing. But notice he wanted to talk about himself and you had absolutely no interest in listening to him, but kept on pushing Bernie Sanders. Shame on you.
Reminds me a little of Jehovah's Witnesses.
Paladin
(28,283 posts)This is what happens when people move from supporting a political candidate to full-out worshipping that candidate.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Oh my. I have been telling myself, "when duers go into the real world they don't act like they do here." Clearly I was wrong.
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)Trust me people know when they look like they are at retirement age. Most don't mind people talking to them about their issues, it beats being treated like you are invisible. Good on you and you didn't just come right at him saying "Say you look like you should be retired, I bet you hate working here." You let him lead the conversation while pointing out what Bernie wants for people who would like to retire but can't.
randys1
(16,286 posts)as a clerk or any other demographic which would be greatly helped by Bernie, this is how you reach out to them.
Let them talk about themselves while pointing out how Bernie connects with them, worked great here, the guy assured me he would take a look at Bernie
BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)Isn't that what politics in the US is supposed to be? Isn't that what we all come to DU for? People debating and talking and figuring out what they believe? I think it's fine to talk to people about politics it if they want to. Don't let the thread get you down. If you had not mentioned the name of the candidate, it would be an entirely different set of comments. If he's a vet, he really should look into Sanders as that is the person who supports him.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)that cannot be uttered. i suppose if he or she were going on about another candidate, oh let.s just say hillary, all the same people would still be as critical.
uh huh.
randys1
(16,286 posts)but will go out of their way to cause harm.
Obama is why so many vets now have their PTSD settlements, for instance.
It didnt enter my mind when I started this thread that it would turn into a pro Bernie or anti Hillary deal, given that I am on board with either, Bernie being my preference.
BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)And maybe why you should see that Bernie supporters are not your enemy. It's just board politics.
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)Though Republicans make it sound like they support the military, and even other corporate Democrats say the same, many of them just support that which helps the military industrial complex itself and stop when it comes to supporting veterans who have come home and are dealing with every day life issues such as health care, etc. Bernie is well noted for his support for that part of veterans' lives, and is one big reason why veterans are coming out heavily now to support him too.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/politics/2015/06/27/bernie-sanders-surge-partly-fueled-veterans/e1qNTpzFpIaoxIGKygKa9J/story.html#
Oliver Holmes
(3 posts)And is looking to take on one of the hardest jobs in the world?
Just curious as to if you know his motives for continuing on.
MineralMan
(146,350 posts)Very excellent point!
Divernan
(15,480 posts)Everyone ages at different rates. And certainly someone who chooses to continue working in the pampered environment of a climate controlled office, with physical exertions limited to picking up a phone or typing on a keyboard is on another planet than someone who drives a truck, or works outdoors, or stands at a checkout counter all day.
BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)So glad you used your first post to remind us all.
MineralMan
(146,350 posts)I'm still putting in a full day, more or less, and see no time when I will not have to. I'm a veteran, too. George W. Bush and his recession is why I'm still working, not anything to do with the VA, which owes me nothing.
I get a Social Security payment every month, but it's hardly adequate for living. So, I"m still doing what I do, and not unhappily, either. Not every 70-year-old is working out of necessity, but the reason for the necessity varies when there is a necessity. In my case, the recession ate up all of our retirement savings. Electing Bernie Sanders or anyone else will not change my situation in any way, nor will it change things for most people who are still working at 70.
And there it is.
Divernan
(15,480 posts)Last edited Tue Jul 7, 2015, 09:16 AM - Edit history (1)
Expand social security/medicare to cover hearing aids and eyeglasses. Those are both extremely expensive items, which have a massive impact on one's quality of life.
MineralMan
(146,350 posts)I started receiving Social Security payments at 62. Medicare starts at 65. You're right. It should cover vision and hearing, along with dental care. It doesn't. But that alone would not be enough to let me stop working.
The President, however, cannot make those changes. Congress has to do that. Again, people often overestimate what Presidents can do.
MineralMan
(146,350 posts)stop working? I can't think of a single proposal he has made that would do that, really.
If you're still working at 70, there's no program to help you stop working if, for whatever reason, you don't have enough total income to stop. Bernie can't help. No President can help. Presidents can hurt, though. GWB caused great harm to people like that man, and me, too, by ruining the economy and causing people to eat up their retirement funds just to get by.
But Bernie's not going to find that man more money to live on. There's no program for that, frankly.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)brought up to a living wage and making rich people pay more by raising the cap will make up for the increase. But he has it already laid out in his regular, not campaign, website for years now.
gwheezie
(3,580 posts)If talking about Bernie can get people to vote dem, I'm all for it.
Divernan
(15,480 posts)What a lot of responders on this thread conveniently ignore is your premise is that 70 year olds shouldn't HAVE TO work in order to survive. "HAVE TO" is the operative term.
If a senior happens to enjoy great health and just wants an excuse to get out of the house, that's entirely different. Although if they're not working because they need the money, their communities would be better off, and they would get plenty of enjoyable social interaction, if they put their time into volunteer work. My AAUW chapter (all our members are at least 60) does some great work with junior high and high school girls for STEM programs and women's shelters. Other friends volunteer at the nature study center, community library and food banks. With the number of families with both parents working, or young adults working 2 jobs to pay off student loans or just survive, there are very few people below retirement age available to volunteer. The same goes for citizens volunteering for unpaid appointments to local government boards re zoning, building codes, school boards, etc.
I'm in my 70's and have many, many neighbors, friends and relatives in that same age bracket. My retirement was comfortable and enjoyable until my stock market investments/savings were "disappeared" to the upper one percent in the 2008 crash. For 4 years following that, I took temp/seasonal jobs working for the U. S. Census and night shifts at a Post Office sorting facility. Both jobs involved lengthy commuting time (2 hours) added to my shifts. Those were very physically demanding jobs. And of course working night shifts really messes up one's sleep patterns. At the USPS, my fellow seniors and I commented that we relied on lots of caffeine and pain meds to get through our shifts. My situation drastically improved when my ex-husband (a highly-paid corporate type) died and I was able to base my SS claims on his lifetime earnings, not mine - that jumped my monthly income by $1,100 additional dollars a month. Ah, the trickle-down theory in real life!
I can recognize people who are exhausted or dealing with chronic pain - there is a drained, pinched, somewhat hunched over look to them. Many of the checkout people/baggers/shopping cart retrievers at my local grocery store are seniors in their late 60's through 70's. I know that the mere fact of having to stand for hours at a time is painful. I've gotten to know some of them well enough to know who has bad knees, whose back is killing them, who has to wait at the nearest bus top in the hot summer sun or icy winter weather. I challenge anyone to tell me that anyone, let alone seniors, working these jobs are in it for the companionship! and fun! When's the last time anyone heard a checkout person laugh, or even saw one smile? When's the last time any of the indignant posters above even acknowledged them with direct eye contact, a friendly greeting and/or sincere thank you?
Another point - all the concern and finger-wagging that you let the guy know you considered him old - oh, wait while I clutch my pearls.
We friggin' know how old we are.
We get a reminder every morning when we wake up and instead of jumping up, raring to go, we have to regain our balance, slowly work through the morning stiffness, put in our hearing aids, put on our glasses, take our various daily medications for blood pressure, diabetes, high cholesterol, slip on our orthopedic shoes and grab our cane. And there is NOTHING I consider more patronizing and insulting to my intelligence and sense of self-worth than someone a generation or 2 younger than me referring to me as "young lady". I tell such people, hey, we both know I'm old enough to be your mother/grandmother, so show some respect for my age by acknowledging it.