2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumBernie Sanders Needs to Make Inroads With African-Americans
Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders is attempting to reach out to African-American voters, according to his campaign team.
If presidential candidate Bernie Sanders is serious about winning the Democratic nomination, he needs to focus on a key constituency that he has largely ignored so far African-Americans. Sanders' support is rising among Democrats in the first two states to hold 2016 nominating contests, Iowa and New Hampshire, according to some polls, and his rallies across the country are often well-attended and enthusiastic. But his gains have come largely among white voters. He lacks a national base among African-Americans, a crucial part of the Democratic electorate beyond Iowa and New Hampshire, such as in South Carolina, which also will hold an early nominating contest.
Vermont, the state Sanders represents in the Senate, has relatively few black residents, and Sanders is virtually unknown among blacks around the country. Meanwhile, Democratic frontrunner Hillary Clinton has a strong following in this demographic group. A recent NBC/Wall Street Journal poll finds that 95 percent of nonwhite Democratic voters say they can see themselves supporting Clinton for their party's nomination but only one quarter say they can see themselves voting for Sanders.
http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/ken-walshs-washington/2015/06/30/bernie-sanders-needs-to-make-inroads-with-african-americans
morningfog
(18,115 posts)boston bean
(36,224 posts)but nope, we got the usual campaign stump response. Which was void of speaking to the issues so many are concerned about.
see here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1017&pid=274964
morningfog
(18,115 posts)thinks he's blowing it.
Don't worry. If he loses the primary, he can always run as an independent and correct any missteps.
boston bean
(36,224 posts)You think he could be a spoiler?
Also, I posted a link to an article that says he has some work to do... Doesn't mean that I think Bernie will listen to me specifically, but he might want to comprehend what is lacking in his campaign... As there are plentiful articles out there pointing this out.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)about whether Bernie supporters would vote for him as a third party candidate.
donnasgirl
(656 posts)Bonobo
(29,257 posts)What you see is what you get with Bernie.
I'm sure it throws you for a loop all right.
It's called sincerity.
appalachiablue
(41,187 posts)on point
(2,506 posts)virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)It will take him a while to do that. He is running against the most famous person in the world.
Response to boston bean (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,719 posts)eom
bravenak
(34,648 posts)appalachiablue
(41,187 posts)what a super explanation, issue by issue by a very bright young person. Gives plenty of happiness and hope
leveymg
(36,418 posts)It's the old "your candidate doesn't care enough about people like us," fill in the racial, religious or ethnic group, regardless of the candidate's actual record. It used to be called a smear. It's been pulled out again to assault the character of Bernie Sanders.
Three weeks ago, Rep. Luis Gutierrez (D-IL), who has endorsed Hillary, remarked on the Larry King Show that he doesn't know if Sanders likes immigrants:
This has reared up again as an organized meme -- character assassination -- just another form of divisive, racial politics. It's not a new tactic. The meme is right out of Lee Atwater's playbook.
This is actually a very old racial wedge issue meme that goes back to the 1960s.
I remember it being used to divide and sequester the McCarthy and RFK wings of the Democratic Party. There's nothing new under the sun.
boston bean
(36,224 posts)to vote against their interest? And you just fluff the criticism of Bernie not addressing these issues off to that?
Seriously, that is how I am reading what you are stating... in a nutshell.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)not on whether people will be actually persuaded.
boston bean
(36,224 posts)why he isn't addressing the issues?
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)his strategy must be working, or you wouldn't be concerned
he is addressing the issues, in his own way
boston bean
(36,224 posts)I will lead you back to it. If said strategy of dividing the races is the reason for this criticism, it is implicit in that line of thought, that persons are falling for it. Rather than it not be the obvious fact that Bernie isn't addressing the issues in a way that resonates with people who find these issues to be important.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)people attempt to use ineffective strategies all the time......
whether people are influenced by the strategy is their own decision.
boston bean
(36,224 posts)why are people trying to convince others they are falling for it?
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)perhaps they have more confidence in their effectiveness than I do.
I think that the time for that kind of politics has passed.
boston bean
(36,224 posts)I do however, find it sort of insulting that others do and liken it to Lee Atwater tactics.
But that is just me.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)You support Bernie's opponent in the primary.
Am I to believe that your desire is to see Bernie change his campaign, so that he can overtake your candidate in the polls.
Bernie's record is wonderful.
Hillary can't attack his record.
So the attack then is that Bernie isn't connecting....
That is the only play available.
It is a weak attempt at framing.
It is that viewpoint that keeps me from supporting Hillary as my first choice.
boston bean
(36,224 posts)I would like to have it not characterized as Lee Atwater tactics, and people are too stupid and fall for it.
That would go a real long way. Cause you know something. I doubt Bernie feels the way you do. I do truly doubt it.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)so I'm sure that Bernie feels the way I do.
politics as usual won't fly anymore.
boston bean
(36,224 posts)virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)I clearly don't accept your point.
you keep asserting that we are characterizing people as being "too stupid"
and that is why they "fall for it"
no one did that.
How should i view your tactic of asserting the opposite of what I am saying?
boston bean
(36,224 posts)Why say that people are using race to divide, if those being accused of division are not falling for the tactic?
Riddle me that?
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)It is isn't just about winning and losing.
Cynical tactics lead to lower turnout in the GE.
This time, ideas will win out over tactics.
boston bean
(36,224 posts)virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)It is all about political desperation.
It isn't about his lifelong voting record, or his support of African Americans throughout his entire life. It isn't about his endorsement of Jesse Jackson for President in 1988.
the tactic is to make it about perception not about issues or record.
It is all about spin.
It is the sign of a weak candidate to utilize those tactics.
boston bean
(36,224 posts)virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)boston bean
(36,224 posts)For whom is this information relevant?
Beagle One
(56 posts)Bernie Sanders is being accused of not caring about African Americans, Latinos, or any other minorities, and the fact he's been fighting for then for 40 years, tells me that the Clinton campaign is using tactics to turn on Bernie, but it is not working.
The revolution will not be televised.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)Bernie can handle it, though
Beagle One
(56 posts)Okay. Have fun living in that bubble of yours.
boston bean
(36,224 posts)appalachiablue
(41,187 posts)Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)leveymg
(36,418 posts)That's what you said. I said it's a very old tactic that has been used to divide democrats along racial, religious and ethnic lines going back at least to the 1968 election.
Meme on.
boston bean
(36,224 posts)believe there are people who are falling for a campaign tactic.
That is implicit in your point.
If people aren't being manipulated by this tactic, why are you bringing it up, over and over?
leveymg
(36,418 posts)This meme is an old dirty trick in American politics. Apparently, it works well enough for yet another fumbling campaign to saddle it again.
boston bean
(36,224 posts)leveymg
(36,418 posts)Lee Atwater type tactics turn poisonous to those who spread them. It happens. Get the point?
boston bean
(36,224 posts)of addressing issues that concern them, are utilizing Lee Atwater type tactics?
leveymg
(36,418 posts)boston bean
(36,224 posts)on what it is you are saying.
sheshe2
(83,993 posts)You went to the AA group yesterday and said the same. You accused 1SBM of Lee Atwater type tactics.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)While disuccing the same concerns themselves inside the group. It's divisive and egocentric bullshit.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)Bernie is running his campaign with his strategy. He's not started heavily campaigning in racially diverse states yet. After he builds his support in the early states and shifts the narrative, which he is doing quite well, his focus will turn to SC and Nevada. You will see the response he gets there.
He can't simply coast on the money bags and name recognition like Hillary. He has to be strategic about building momentum and support. He can't afford to run a national primary campaign at this point. You will see as he shifts to the other states that he addresses you faux concern.
boston bean
(36,224 posts)his refusal to actually speak about it on the campaign trail.
That is fair game. Why would anyone have to wait for a vote to be casted to discuss this?
TM99
(8,352 posts)Mike has 1 million followers on Twitter, most of which are persons of color. ONE MILLION, Boston Bean, ONE MILLION FOLLOWERS!
He is making inroads in the communities not through slick commercials, name recognition, and the like. He is doing it organically as his campaign unfolds.
And we are listening, believing, and now following him. More and more will do so as they learn of Sanders positions and his history of support for civil rights and immigration reform.
Thank you so much for your concern though. It is as touching as your other flamebait posts.
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...and the best part is the non-response from the OP, who has engaged in plenty of back-and-forths with others in the thread but who appears to be studiously ignoring your post.
Maybe they will claim that your response is "not germane".
TM99
(8,352 posts)It defies the narrative and shuts down the race-baiting.
azmom
(5,208 posts)On YouTube this morning. A truth teller, just like Bernie.
A lot of people try to peg me as a political rapper and Im not. Im a social commentator and at times people have politicized the things I say, but I dont care too much for any political party. I care about people. Under Reagan, drugs were allowed to flood our community and wipe out two to three generations of people that could have kept my community growing and I take exception to that. I threw a BBQ when Reagan died. Its not a vehement hate though, Im not gonna spit on his grave. I wanted to break down what the Reagan era was really like. Killer Mike
Indepatriot
(1,253 posts)I do believe Mrs. Clinton was a card-carrying Republican at that time.....
bigtree
(86,013 posts)An undated photograph of Hillary Rodham, center, during her days as a student at Wellesley College, from 1965 to 1969.
TM99
(8,352 posts)to sit next to the black girl in school. Maybe she was even friends with her to?
Of course there is no context or data for the photo but I really don't think it rises to the level of leading anti-segregation protests.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,719 posts)bigtree
(86,013 posts)...and it demeans supporters' own point about Sanders and his own history to deny hers.
The poster made a ridiculous post citing her youthful support of Goldwater (completely out of context) as if to suggest that represented the totality of her lifetime's commitment to Civil Rights; as if to suggest that his (and others) anti-segregation efforts were opposed by Hillary.
In Turmoil of 68, Hillary Clinton Found a New Voice
In September 1968, Hillary Diane Rodham, role model and student government president, was addressing Wellesley College freshmen girls back when they were still called girls about methods of protest. It was a hot topic in that overheated year of what she termed confrontation politics from Chicago to Czechoslovakia.
Dynamism is a function of change, Ms. Rodham said in her speech. On some campuses, change is effected through nonviolent or even violent means. Although we too have had our demonstrations, change here is usually a product of discussion in the decision-making process.
As the nation boiled over Vietnam, civil rights and the slayings of two charismatic leaders, Ms. Rodham was completing a sweeping intellectual, political and stylistic shift. She came to Wellesley as an 18-year-old Republican, a copy of Barry Goldwaters right-wing treatise, The Conscience of a Conservative, on the shelf of her freshman dorm room. She would leave as an antiwar Democrat whose public rebuke of a Republican senator in a graduation speech won her notice in Life magazine as a voice for her generation.
Her handwritten remarks on file in the Wellesley archives abound with abbreviations, crossed-out sentences and scrawled reinsertions, as if composed in a hurry. Yet Ms. Rodhams words are neatly contained between tight margins. She took care to stay within the lines, even when they were moving so far and fast in 1968. While student leaders at some campuses went to the barricades, Ms. Rodham was attending teach-ins, leading panel discussions and joining steering committees. She preferred her confrontation politics cooler.
She was not an antiwar radical trying to create a mass movement, said Ellen DuBois, who, with Ms. Rodham, was an organizer of a student strike that April. She was very much committed to working within the political system. From a student activist perspective, there was a significant difference.
Hillary Rodham speaking at rally at Wellesley College
Interviewed about A Woman in Charge, his biography of Hillary Clinton, Carl Bernstein explains, She chose Yale (in 1969) because, unlike Harvard, where she had also been accepted, it was an activist school that very much believed in the use of the law as an instrument for social changein the mold of Thurgood Marshall . This was the year of the Black Panther trial in New Haven. She monitored the trial to see if there were any abuses of the rights of the Panthers on trial, and helped schedule the monitors. Her reports were turned over to the ACLU."
Bernstein: She was the commencement speaker at Wellesley in 1969, chosen by her fellow studentsthere had never been a student commencement speaker there before. The scheduled speaker was Sen. Edward Brooke of Massachusetts, who Hillary had campaigned for, a Republican, the first black to be a member of the U.S. Senate in a hundred years. In his remarks he was patronizing, Hillary thought. He seemed to defend the Nixon administrations conduct of the war, and didnt mention the wrenching events of 68. When he finished, Hillary got up and extemporaneously excoriated him. As a result of that speech, she was featured in Life magazine as exemplary of this new generation of student leaders. They ran a picture of her in pedal pushers and her Coke-bottle glasses. That article made her well known in the student movement in the U.S.
Wiener: Then she went to Yale Law School in 1969. Would you say her connection to radical politics deepened at Yale?
Bernstein: She chose Yale because, unlike Harvard, where she had also been accepted, it was an activist school that very much believed in the use of the law as an instrument for social changein the mold of Thurgood Marshall. When she arrived, her reputation preceded her. It was perhaps greater than her real accomplishments. She was becoming a generational spokesperson, anointed by others. Thats when she met Bill; at that point she was much more famous that he was. This was the year of the Black Panther trial in New Haven. She monitored the trial to see if there were any abuses of the rights of the Panthers on trial, and helped schedule the monitors. Her reports were turned over to the ACLU.
Wiener: And then there was her summer job in California.
Bernstein: That summer she went to work at the most important radical law firm in America at that point: Truehaft, Walker and Bernstein in Oakland. They defended the Panthers. Two of their partners were members of the Communist Partyincluding Bob Truehaft, who was married to Jessica Mitford. I talked to Bob Truehaft not long before he died, and he said he was certain that Hillary came there because she subscribed to some of the kind of law they practiced and the kind of clients they defended.
Indepatriot
(1,253 posts)is somehow not attuned to the struggles of POC is pure unadulterated bullshit... Why is it that HRC supporters are so quick to play the victim?
bigtree
(86,013 posts)...second, it's too late to act as if you weren't insinuating Clinton wasn't supportive of anti-segregation efforts. It's right there in your post where you misrepresented her support for Goldwater by contrasting it against Sander's protest efforts. Besides, I answered that smear effectively with my response to the other poster. Is it at all possible for you to defend your candidate without lashing out (with half-assed, nonfactual attacks) at Hillary?
Indepatriot
(1,253 posts)a Goldwater Girl I somehow implied she was a bigot? OK then. You must think the sun rising each day is an attack on the moon....
bigtree
(86,013 posts)boston bean
(36,224 posts)I love you. You are not her supporter, yet you defended her.
Thank you.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)He sounded like Bernie 2015
BainsBane
(53,097 posts)Only three decades left to go.
I was a delegate for Jackson in 84 and supported him in 88 too. Does that mean I should be president or qualify as some champion for civil rights? No, it does not.
Clinton tried to implement single payer in the early 90s. Is that all you need to know about her on healthcare?
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)and I liked what Bernie said in that speech.
His hopes and expectations for Rev. Jackson as President sounded much like his hopes and expectations for his own Presidency today.
HFRN
(1,469 posts)by the issues he talks about
BainsBane
(53,097 posts)and African Americans in particular that matter a great deal to those voters and their allies. We currently have churches burning across the South and a racist mass killing in a black church. That isn't about poverty or class. It is a function of racism. No amount of money in the world shields black folks from that level of hatred.
azmom
(5,208 posts)BainsBane
(53,097 posts)I'm not willing to devote 7 minutes to watching a video with no explanation as to why or no indication of how it relates to the discussion. If you have a point to make, I suggest you make it yourself directly.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)The voters in those states don't know him quite yet. We'll see how he does when they do.
Sancho
(9,070 posts)Hillary has decades of grassroots work with minorities and the immigrant community. The protestant churches have worked side-by-side with the Clinton Foundation, and some appreciate that effort.
Others are familiar with various efforts for children, women, and education. The path to citizenship is a BIG DEAL in the immigrant community here in the sunbelt.
Honestly, I grew up in Charleston attending a church down the street from Emmanuel AME, and I've lived the last two decades in a very diverse immigrant majority Florida. In both cases, Hillary (and the Clintons) have been players for a long time. Most have not heard of Bernie Sanders (it's not the typical DU member). These groups want to see people in small groups and see hands-on action. For example, the Elián González case COST Democrats a lot of votes because of Gore's lack of attention to the case in Miami. That was a main stream Democrat - so Bernie is even further removed.
Right now, the AA community and immigrant community support Hillary. Bernie needs to visit a few hundred churches and immigrant communities in the next couple months to catch up. He also needs to introduce a dozen bills supporting those communities - SOCIAL JUSTICE, not economic justice is the key.
Short of that, he won't make inroads with a speech or two.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Clinton is certainly a formidable candidate, but she's not invincible there. She got obliterated there in 2008.
Sancho
(9,070 posts)No one in the AA community would beat Obama with Oprah on the campaign trail in SC - unless Oprah herself had been on the ticket.
It's almost the same thing now with women. Even my GOP-loving, conservative, protestant sister who lives in Charleston today is a Hillary supporter on the women's issues alone. She is a nurse and hates the crazy GOP medical statutes and nutty women-hating candidates. She has said she would take Hillary, just like the AA voters wanted Obama, on the demographic identity alone. She doesn't favor gay marriage, but she does agree with choice. Typical of sunbelt confusions.
That's how voters work: they vote because they identify with a group, they care about a single important issue, or they are members of a political party. Most are NOT political junkies and most are not familiar with TPP.
Bernie has a LONG way to go in the South and sunbelt. I'm not sure what his plan is unless he can get down here and go from Florida to Texas. The economic message won't fly with women and minority and immigrants. The want SOCIAL JUSTICE, programs for children, women's rights, a path to citizenship, voting rights, and gun control.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Obviously, the safe money is on Clinton. But, we shall see.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)She's passionate about women's rights but no mystery there. She is as far into that as HRC Is. She also got off the anti-Obamacare scare when she learned real life what it meant for her family.
Plus, she's always been for gay rights her whole life as we grew up in an era where it was not big deal - half a century ago. We worked with, lived around, went to school with gays. No reason to get on their case, people used to mind their own business then. It wasn't until the fundie push that people could not turn the dirty picture show off in their minds about private matters, like gay rights or abortion.
Now my sister is eager to vote Democrat for the first time in years and she's in Texas. People like this won't get the media's eye, but they will get out and vote for HRC.
I was for BS until recently. I love the man, he's never changed his platform. But he's not been able to get much done, although the Democrats have stood behind him. He's their mascot.
It's the kind of stuff I've seen online that has turned me off. I don't want to live under the thumb of zealots of any kind.
NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)It will happen.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)my twitter feed. Go to twitter and search #FeelTheBern #Bernie2016, or #Sanders2016 hashtags and you'll see it.
JustAnotherGen
(31,999 posts)And I'm not being 'baited' into being 'Against' Bernie Sanders.
My decision on who to support in the Primary and what PACS to give to have nothing to do with being 'against' Sanders.
It's a matter of what I'm for. I'm for SOLID results on issues that matter to me - and a Washington outsider -
That's how I became FOR the Candidate of my choice.
Spazito
(50,559 posts)Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)and they are community activists. So....
azmom
(5,208 posts)Future of the progressive movement.
Bernie is getting all Americans engaged in the political system.
Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)It is July 1, 2015
JustAnotherGen
(31,999 posts)I'm not supporting either one.
Actually - - a tally.
2 - my brother owns a green building supply company. That one is a no brainer.
3 - Lisa from WNY - lives in Baltimore about 14 years now.
4, 5, 6 - My sister and her two eldest.
7, 8 - Dougbug and his wife - Elizabeth NJ
9, 10 - D (From te Caribbean)and his wife - Brooklyn
11 - Uncle Otis - 78 - Atlanta
12 - Cousin Michelle, Husband (Senegal immigrant) , Aunt Lela - MD
13 - Juls - San Diego. Says her dad back home in Rochester is with us.
That's just a few.
Around the country, different journeys, different goals, different financial backgrounds, different financial and life circmstances etc etc
Two things when I think of discussions be it to face, by phone, by skype,, via email that are common threads -
A disgust with Washington DC long games
A lack of people who really want to accomplish things or they would have done it already
Personally I don't want to be like a one issue pro life Republican - you know the type. They had all the branches of the Fed give for six years and they couldn't make abortion illegal - yet the dummies on the right with that one issue keep voting for them - and on the way to vote . . . The bridge they cross is crumbling.
Step by step, inch by inch - sorority, fraternity (understand these are hugely significant associations in the black community), links meetings, b & b meetings, jack and Jill etc etc the message starts there and funnels out to our civic endeavors.
This post was more for the other O'Malley supporters than anything else. I don't want them thinking all is lost to Sanders and Clinton - because I assure you - it's not.
Number23
(24,544 posts)I gotta stay the HELL out of these threads. On matters such as this, I usually read the OP and bounce. No reading the comments. Don't know why I didn't do it here.
JustAnotherGen
(31,999 posts)Number23
(24,544 posts)compelling cases FOR your candidate.
Notice I said FOR your candidate. Instead of screaming to high Heaven about what other people have done, instead of taking a dump on other people's candidate and religiously implying that the only reason people support him or her is because they are ignorant/corrupt/easily fooled/other idiotic and counter productive insult, you guys actually advocate FOR your candidate. It's a wonderful thing to see.
sheshe2
(83,993 posts)I agree, he has a lot of work to do in the African American community.
K lib
(153 posts)If he gets large numbers of white people to vote for him, he only needs to get a decent chunk of Blacks, Hispanics, and Asians. He will also get a good portion of independents, the young, and even some Republicans who want to vote for him. He does not need to win the majority of the minority vote, although i hope he does, just needs to stay competitive.
uponit7771
(90,370 posts)K lib
(153 posts)I was talking about the primaries.
JI7
(89,283 posts)That's how he won the nomination. He also got low income whites .
BainsBane
(53,097 posts)No Democrat wins without the overwhelming majority of people of color and single women. That is a basic fact. Sanders is remaining at about 12-15 percent in the polls. He isn't surging. If you think a narrow message is going to get him over half of the Democratic electorate, you are badly mistaken.
HassleCat
(6,409 posts)Political loyalties don't change that quickly. Black voters have been loyal to the Democratic Party since the days of the Voting Rights Act, fair housing legislation, etc. These associations go back over 50 years. That matters in the primaries, but not so much in the general election, where black voters, and minority voters in general, will support the Democratic candidate. In other words, if Sanders wins the nomination, black voters will turn out for him almost as reliably as they would for Clinton.
CTBlueboy
(154 posts)My vote as African American will be for Bernie Sanders simple
Many activists of the Blacklivesmatter movement don't buy this faux progressive Clinton
sorry !
And if anyone on HRC team is telling her that African American votes are in the bag for her they are in a rude awakening