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Thu Jan 19, 2017, 10:44 PM

Bernie, Bernie, Bernie...

I'm really fed up with so many on this site blaming Bernie for HRC's loss. A loss is a loss. If people truly believed in her, they would have voted for her. I read recently Bernie forced HRC to lean more left than remain centrist. That wasn't the case between her and Obama; and she lost to him.

States, I truly never would turn red turned red---like Pennsylvania. Yeah, that really shocked me. I don't think Bernie had anything to do with that. Was/Am I a Bernie supporter hell yeah! But I wasn't supporting Bernie because I hated HRC---I was actually supporting a person who was adding to a two party system and leading a strong coalition.

I HATE a two party system. I hate the electoral college. Voices are lost---you either have to stick to one or another but can't seem to move past it. I liked Bernie's politics, no doubt. But he was building something there that I feel the US needed. Not to mention it was a focus on social programs that I appreciate.

In reality, if we have to blame someone or people for HRC's loss---it's the fact she could not in any way connect with uneducated White women voters. Not to mention her ratings with educated White women voters versus Trumps was negligible. Bernie didn't do anything. I think even the reporters were shocked by how much White women voters influenced the election---because they had spent so much of their time on the Latino vote.

They took for granted that White women voters would go for HRC without a doubt. Just like they expected Obama to have the Black vote. They underestimated their numbers, presence, and what they stood for. Never take women for granted, no matter the colour of their skin.

So rather than harass Bernie---lets focus on voting statistics and who matter aside from getting our small town people to run for town elections. That's the way to make proactive changes and who's minds we have to influence if not change.

43 replies, 8849 views

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Arrow 43 replies Author Time Post
Reply Bernie, Bernie, Bernie... (Original post)
vaberella Jan 2017 OP
leftofcool Jan 2017 #1
FSogol Jan 2017 #2
WhiteTara Jan 2017 #4
Chasstev365 Jan 2017 #11
sheshe2 Jan 2017 #13
vaberella Jan 2017 #6
fleur-de-lisa Jan 2017 #8
still_one Jan 2017 #3
bettyellen Jan 2017 #5
vaberella Jan 2017 #9
JI7 Jan 2017 #12
underthematrix Jan 2017 #7
vaberella Jan 2017 #10
Rex Jan 2017 #14
democratisphere Jan 2017 #15
TDale313 Jan 2017 #21
democratisphere Jan 2017 #22
TDale313 Jan 2017 #23
QC Jan 2017 #41
VoicesAcrossAmerica Jan 2017 #16
JudyM Jan 2017 #18
JTFrog Jan 2017 #34
JudyM Jan 2017 #35
JTFrog Jan 2017 #36
JTFrog Jan 2017 #33
joshcryer Jan 2017 #17
JudyM Jan 2017 #19
joshcryer Jan 2017 #20
TDale313 Jan 2017 #24
JHan Jan 2017 #27
uponit7771 Jan 2017 #38
JudyM Jan 2017 #28
marlakay Jan 2017 #42
joshcryer Jan 2017 #43
Post removed Jan 2017 #25
stonecutter357 Jan 2017 #26
Gothmog Jan 2017 #29
Gothmog Jan 2017 #30
JTFrog Jan 2017 #31
betsuni Jan 2017 #32
delisen Jan 2017 #37
CajunBlazer Jan 2017 #39
LexVegas Jan 2017 #40

Response to vaberella (Original post)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 10:45 PM

1. Oh Boy! Where's my popcorn?

I am so glad this forum will be gone tomorrow!

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Response to leftofcool (Reply #1)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 10:46 PM

2. Seriously.

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Response to leftofcool (Reply #1)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 10:51 PM

4. ...

and here's some beer

Let the show begin.

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Response to WhiteTara (Reply #4)


Response to WhiteTara (Reply #4)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 11:20 PM

13. Hell!

Beer is good, however I prefer whine... ooops I meant wine.

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Response to leftofcool (Reply #1)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 10:51 PM

6. I'm sure drama will erupt...sigh. n/a

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Response to leftofcool (Reply #1)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 10:52 PM

8. I'm with ya'!

I supported Bernie in the primary but happily voted for Hillary during the general election, especially after it was apparent what Comey was up to.

A maniac takes office tomorrow!

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Response to vaberella (Original post)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 10:48 PM

3. I do NOT blame Bernie. I do blame Comey and the FBI. Bernie after all endorsed Hillary, and

encouraged his supporters to vote for her.

I also blame those progressives who refused to vote for Hillary by either voting third party or not voting


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Response to vaberella (Original post)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 10:51 PM

5. A third party has got to be formed at the grass roots level and build up. Shortcuts just fuck us up

 

Why are all the Sanders fans down playing the Russian hacking? Is is because they are that propaganda up too and spread it all over? Seriously, if you don't think Comney and the hacking mattered I think you're tripping.
It mattered a great deal.

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #5)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 10:52 PM

9. I didn't say they didn't matter. Shoot to me Trump was a sleeper KGB.

I'm just saying there was more here than just comies...especially when I look at the numbers. I'm sorry--I don't think comies really think as far as women voters. Just saying.

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Response to vaberella (Reply #9)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 11:08 PM

12. it was a pretty big thing and one of the biggest things pushed against her even on this site

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Response to vaberella (Original post)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 10:51 PM

7. HRC didn't lose the election. It was a Russian backed coup.

This needs to be your starting place because this is not about an individual. This is about the overthrow of our govt.

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Response to vaberella (Original post)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 10:54 PM

10. What kind of country are we to have KGB agent sleeper cells? n/t

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Response to vaberella (Original post)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 11:39 PM

14. lulz

 

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Response to vaberella (Original post)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 11:53 PM

15. Bernie has large responsibility for why we are where we are.

Bernie is also not a democrat. It is too late now, but should be remembered next time so we don't shoot ourselves in the foot and become losers again.

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Response to democratisphere (Reply #15)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 02:32 AM

21. Bull.

People are frustrated with the status quo. They feel their needs are not being addressed. Dems can figure out how to deal with that or they can continue to lose.

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Response to TDale313 (Reply #21)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 08:58 AM

22. Everyone understands the status quo can not continue, but

I also believe very few would want what is about to besiege US.

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Response to democratisphere (Reply #22)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 09:04 AM

23. Oh god no.

This is truly frightening. And I live in a deep blue state and still supported Hillary in the General because she was far better than the alternative and in the end I wanted her to have as strong a showing in the popular vote as possible- to repudiate Trump and his hate filled agenda.

But Dems need to wake up. This should have been a major soul- searching moment. If anything should have told them "what we're doing isn't working" this should have been it. Sadly I don't get the sense that the message was received.

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Response to TDale313 (Reply #23)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 12:21 PM

41. Sadly, many are using legitimate concerns about Russia--

and yes, those concerns are absolutely justified--to avoid doing that soul-searching.

Everything is fine, they tell themselves, so let's just keep doing what we've been doing. No need to question anything. La la la la la I can't hear you.

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Response to vaberella (Original post)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 12:11 AM

16. It's ridiculous that anyone blames a primary candidate for a general loss

 

For those who don't remember, in 2008 it was really close between Obama and Clinton. Had it gone the other way, wanna bet how many people would have blamed Obama for Clinton's eventual loss to McCain?

What the DC Dems don't understand is that Republicans HATE Clinton. It isn't fair. She doesn't deserve it. But they are rabid. And because she's not a great campaigner, she doesn't inspire the base to overcome this.

Primaries have been a lot more vicious than Bernie vs Hillary. He isn't responsible for articulating the way many people in the country feel. And voters are not responsible for not voting for her. It was the job of her campaign to create a strategy to beat Trump. But because they were primarily a bunch of rich white democrats, those are the only states they managed to win. They truly thought they could make Republicans vote for Hilary if they just showed them how awful Trump was. The problem is, Republicans are Republicans because they want Republican programs. And they really want a Conservative Supreme Court Justice. That "Trumped" their personal dislike of Trump.

Had Clinton's team chosen a strategy to inspire people to vote for her she'd have won. But I'm sorry, the worst idea I've ever heard in my life is I'm With Her. Had they simply changed it to She's With Me even it would have been so much better.

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Response to VoicesAcrossAmerica (Reply #16)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 01:21 AM

18. That's an accurate view, IMO. Plus, any former Bernie supporters who didn't turn out for her

made that choice not because Bernie didn't endorse her immediately (that's ridiculous!) but because they were too revolted by the rigging by the DNC et al..., in other words, by strategic decisions made by or for Hillary's campaign, which were reasonably attributed to her. I was really turned off by how her campaign tried to keep Sanders down procedurally rather than trying to win on the issues. I ended up up voting for her but I can see why less devoted Dems who supported sanders may have sat home.

Welcome to DU!

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Response to JudyM (Reply #18)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 10:46 AM

34. Whatever helps you sleep at night. nt

 

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Response to JTFrog (Reply #34)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 10:50 AM

35. I might have a bit more insight into what happened on the Sanders side, but think what you need to.

Because how could DWS & Hillary's strategy have anything to do with her loss of the electoral vote?

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Response to JudyM (Reply #35)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 10:51 AM

36. Whatever helps you sleep at night. nt

 

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Response to VoicesAcrossAmerica (Reply #16)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 10:45 AM

33. Tough. He screwed Clinton over just like Kennedy screwed Carter over.

 

There is definitely a lesson to be learned here. But it's not whatever you are trying to sell.

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Response to vaberella (Original post)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 12:34 AM

17. Took 8 weeks and 3 days after the nomination was won...

...before Sanders endorsed Clinton.

Absurd.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #17)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 01:29 AM

19. He followed rules. The same cannot be said for her campaign. That's why many lost all enthusiasm

for her. The amount of time taken to endorse her didn't make a difference -or can you point to evidence that it did? That's just a false trope used to blame Bernie. The DNC pulled tricks to keep him marginalized and that deviousness came to light and hurt Hillary. After the convention Bernie actually was on the road campaigning for her more than she herself was campaigning... check his schedule, he worked hard to get her elected.

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Response to JudyM (Reply #19)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 01:51 AM

20. Yeah, by appointing a Jill Stein supporter to the DNC committee.

DNCs shenanigans did not result in Clinton getting 4 million more votes than Sanders. It's absurd on the face of it.

Had Clinton waited 8 weeks to endorse Obama in 2008 people would have rightly been outraged. Somehow logic and reason just go out the window here.

They needed a joint unity campaign like what happened in 2008. Instead Clinton was forced into appeasement mode and the rust belt went meh.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #20)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 09:07 AM

24. The rust belt went "meh"

Because fairly or not we had a Candidate in the General whose last name has become synonymous with Nafta and bad trade deals.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #20)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 09:52 AM

27. The negative framing of Hillary worked and remained with voters who described voting for her as:

1) holding their nose
2) lesser of two evils

She deserved neither of those descriptions and it affected enthusiasm. When the polls showed she was a sure bet, lots stayed home because they'd rather not - as if HRC was the most disgusting thing to vote for ever.

Now we have a shameless narcissistic pathetic incompetent treasonous PoS about to be *President.

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Response to JHan (Reply #27)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 11:21 AM

38. +1

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #20)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 10:20 AM

28. LOL, ok if you say so. I'm sure that's what happened. The rust belt went meh because of Bernie.



It was strategic decisions. Don't spend time in WI, spend more time getting donations than having rallies to gin up enthusiasm.

Why didn't Hillary stand up for those of us who voted for her by challenging the close votes in WI, MI etc? And be sure to blame that on Sanders, too.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #17)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 12:50 PM

42. If he had done so immediately

More of his followrs wouldn't have followed him to Hillary. He was doing what he promised his people and slowly pulled them towards her.

He had a strong movement and he knew if he moved sooner more would vote third party.

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Response to marlakay (Reply #42)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 12:51 PM

43. The illogic continues.

The very people who didn't vote were the rust belt which he was engaging.

He did not get them out to vote.

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Response to vaberella (Original post)


Response to vaberella (Original post)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 09:34 AM

26. I'm really fed up........

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Response to vaberella (Original post)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 10:38 AM

29. No, The Systems Not Totally Rigged. But That Idea Sure Helped Donald Trump.

Here is a good example Sanders really hurting Clinton. I am still mad at the number of times that trump used Sanders' claims against Clinton. Sanders' baseless charges that the system was fixed and rigged were used by trump to great effect and hurt Clinton http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/rigged-system-donald-trump_us_5855cb44e4b08debb7898607?section=us_politics

And if Sanders’ rhetoric during the primaries started that stew simmering with his talk about the system only working for the rich, Trump brought it to a full boil with his remarks blaming undocumented immigrants and trade agreements that he claimed were forged as the result of open corruption.

I think he was able to thread a certain toxic needle. But he did win, and we’re all going to pay the price.
John Weaver, aide to Ohio Gov. John Kasich’s presidential campaign

The underlying irony for those who sought to end what they perceived as corruption is that they may well have elected a president whose record through the years and whose actions since the election signal it could be the most openly corrupt administration in generations.....

And if Sanders’ rhetoric during the primaries started that stew simmering with his talk about the system only working for the rich, Trump brought it to a full boil with his remarks blaming undocumented immigrants and trade agreements that he claimed were forged as the result of open corruption.

Sanders' bogus rigged process claim hurt a great deal.

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Response to vaberella (Original post)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 10:39 AM

30. Have you bought his latest book yet?

This is the only thing that Sanders cares about

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Response to vaberella (Original post)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 10:42 AM

31. Lol. He used our party for money, media and then was a spoiler of the worst kind.

 

We should never allow that to happen again. Period.

And why does it seem that only Bernie and Stein supporters are in denial? They also deny that Comey, Russia, racism, sexism, gerrymandering, cheating or hacking had anything to do with the outcome.

It's all laughable.

P.S. - Buy My Book!


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Response to vaberella (Original post)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 10:44 AM

32. "I read recently Bernie forced HRC to lean more left than remain centrist."

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Response to vaberella (Original post)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 11:18 AM

37. Bernie decided to be the Ralph Nader of 2016. There have been consequences.


The Nader revolt against the "establishment" and the Sanders revolt against the "establishment." Every so many election cycles we relearn the harsh lesson: There is a difference between the two parties.

Clinton connected with enough men and women to win an election by almost 3 million votes.

Bernie Sanders is a big boy. He does not seem to feel harassed. He played hardball politics, heeded some good and he did some damage. He doesn't seem to be worrying about the damage and seems comfortable working within the confines of the new illegitimate government. He is a reformer and that is OK.

I find his vision narrow-and in the tradition of that Democratic Party mistake of 2004 -John Edwards. (Sanders being more ethical however). I myself am not a true believer in any political leader. I think true believers damage Democracy which requires reasoning and judgement in an electorate.

Democracy is under attack in a way it has not been since World War II. We had a gutsy Secretary of State Hillary Clinton who publicly denounced the new authoritarianism in Russia and stood up for free elections. She has paid a political price. Maybe she should have kept her mouth shut, played it safe, ignored human rights, figuring few of us would care anyway, worked out oil deals with Putin.

I suspect Putin would have preferred to hack an election for a pragmatically evil but well-organized person rather than the unpredictable Trump-but we will never know.





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Response to vaberella (Original post)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 11:26 AM

39. Give it up dude, it's over!

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Response to vaberella (Original post)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 12:05 PM

40. He saw an opportunity to make some money and took it. nt

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