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Thu Jan 19, 2017, 06:50 PM

In under the wire... I am still very angry with Bernie Sanders

I think I will be for a very long time.

The disrespect he showed to the first woman Democratic Nominee, by not officially conceding graciously prior to the convention is unforgivable, imho.

I am angry that in 2008 Hillary was harangued for waiting a very short time after the primaries were over to concede to Barack Obama. I am upset that a double standard was placed upon her, ie lambasting her and ridiculing and shaming her for waiting for 4 days to concede. While Bernie was given every conceivable excuse for his actions for over 2 months.

I really do feel like he did a great disservice to Hillary and Democrats, whom he votes with 98% of the time. I think his actions played a part in Jill Stein getting as many votes as she did.

I'm not ready to get all goose pimply about him and probably never will be.

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Reply In under the wire... I am still very angry with Bernie Sanders (Original post)
boston bean Jan 2017 OP
bravenak Jan 2017 #1
dionysus Jan 2017 #2
Eliot Rosewater Jan 2017 #6
dionysus Jan 2017 #24
Eliot Rosewater Jan 2017 #29
dionysus Jan 2017 #56
secondwind Jan 2017 #115
George II Jan 2017 #95
zentrum Jan 2017 #131
Bohunk68 Jan 2017 #162
still_one Jan 2017 #133
pnwmom Jan 2017 #155
uponit7771 Jan 2017 #161
Gothmog Jan 2017 #176
bravenak Jan 2017 #14
dionysus Jan 2017 #16
bravenak Jan 2017 #40
dionysus Jan 2017 #42
bravenak Jan 2017 #44
snpsmom Jan 2017 #103
NCTraveler Jan 2017 #91
nikto Jan 2017 #60
dionysus Jan 2017 #64
emulatorloo Jan 2017 #136
stonecutter357 Jan 2017 #96
Gothmog Jan 2017 #170
bravenak Jan 2017 #173
pkdu Jan 2017 #3
LongtimeAZDem Jan 2017 #69
Feeling the Bern Jan 2017 #74
George II Jan 2017 #105
stonecutter357 Jan 2017 #98
Feeling the Bern Jan 2017 #125
stonecutter357 Jan 2017 #156
JTFrog Jan 2017 #171
JTFrog Jan 2017 #175
tblue37 Jan 2017 #117
JTFrog Jan 2017 #174
JudyM Jan 2017 #127
JTFrog Jan 2017 #172
Eliot Rosewater Jan 2017 #4
Post removed Jan 2017 #11
brush Jan 2017 #19
Gothmog Jan 2017 #26
Chevy Jan 2017 #51
Gothmog Jan 2017 #79
JHan Jan 2017 #73
Gothmog Jan 2017 #78
George II Jan 2017 #107
Gothmog Jan 2017 #34
Gothmog Jan 2017 #38
HoneyBadger Jan 2017 #116
Gothmog Jan 2017 #169
Gothmog Jan 2017 #20
Eliot Rosewater Jan 2017 #21
dionysus Jan 2017 #35
Gothmog Jan 2017 #41
Post removed Jan 2017 #67
Hassin Bin Sober Jan 2017 #30
Eliot Rosewater Jan 2017 #31
Hassin Bin Sober Jan 2017 #32
Eliot Rosewater Jan 2017 #39
msanthrope Jan 2017 #52
NCTraveler Jan 2017 #93
George II Jan 2017 #111
uponit7771 Jan 2017 #163
The Velveteen Ocelot Jan 2017 #5
boston bean Jan 2017 #7
lostnfound Jan 2017 #120
tecelote Jan 2017 #10
Gothmog Jan 2017 #18
NWCorona Jan 2017 #54
LongtimeAZDem Jan 2017 #72
otohara Jan 2017 #130
Bohunk68 Jan 2017 #165
Talk Is Cheap Jan 2017 #8
JI7 Jan 2017 #9
Justice Jan 2017 #12
betsuni Jan 2017 #13
TheCowsCameHome Jan 2017 #15
retrowire Jan 2017 #62
emulatorloo Jan 2017 #134
Bohunk68 Jan 2017 #166
Gothmog Jan 2017 #17
Nonhlanhla Jan 2017 #22
Hassin Bin Sober Jan 2017 #23
m-lekktor Jan 2017 #25
lamp_shade Jan 2017 #27
CentralMass Jan 2017 #28
Post removed Jan 2017 #33
retrowire Jan 2017 #65
emulatorloo Jan 2017 #135
cstanleytech Jan 2017 #145
retrowire Jan 2017 #159
Gothmog Jan 2017 #36
R B Garr Jan 2017 #53
Gothmog Jan 2017 #77
cstanleytech Jan 2017 #147
Gothmog Jan 2017 #168
cstanleytech Jan 2017 #180
underthematrix Jan 2017 #37
Chiquitita Jan 2017 #43
boston bean Jan 2017 #45
Chiquitita Jan 2017 #46
boston bean Jan 2017 #47
Chiquitita Jan 2017 #48
nikto Jan 2017 #71
onecaliberal Jan 2017 #92
R B Garr Jan 2017 #49
tenorly Jan 2017 #50
Eleanors38 Jan 2017 #55
retrowire Jan 2017 #57
SammyWinstonJack Jan 2017 #102
NWCorona Jan 2017 #58
asuhornets Jan 2017 #59
boston bean Jan 2017 #61
asuhornets Jan 2017 #68
retrowire Jan 2017 #70
emulatorloo Jan 2017 #137
retrowire Jan 2017 #139
emulatorloo Jan 2017 #140
retrowire Jan 2017 #160
Feeling the Bern Jan 2017 #86
retrowire Jan 2017 #104
Feeling the Bern Jan 2017 #112
emulatorloo Jan 2017 #138
Post removed Jan 2017 #143
emulatorloo Jan 2017 #148
Feeling the Bern Jan 2017 #150
emulatorloo Jan 2017 #151
LisaM Jan 2017 #63
LongtimeAZDem Jan 2017 #66
bdamomma Jan 2017 #75
JHan Jan 2017 #76
Feeling the Bern Jan 2017 #80
bravenak Jan 2017 #83
Feeling the Bern Jan 2017 #84
bravenak Jan 2017 #88
Feeling the Bern Jan 2017 #90
bravenak Jan 2017 #97
retrowire Jan 2017 #101
asuhornets Jan 2017 #81
cstanleytech Jan 2017 #82
yodermon Jan 2017 #85
Babushka Jan 2017 #87
NCTraveler Jan 2017 #89
tiredtoo Jan 2017 #94
bravenak Jan 2017 #99
tiredtoo Jan 2017 #108
bravenak Jan 2017 #142
JHan Jan 2017 #109
bravenak Jan 2017 #141
elmac Jan 2017 #100
ihaveaquestion Jan 2017 #106
slumcamper Jan 2017 #110
elmac Jan 2017 #113
Dustlawyer Jan 2017 #114
PoliticAverse Jan 2017 #118
StevieM Jan 2017 #119
Ligyron Jan 2017 #121
m-lekktor Jan 2017 #123
senz Jan 2017 #149
uponit7771 Jan 2017 #164
Post removed Jan 2017 #122
Ace Rothstein Jan 2017 #124
Post removed Jan 2017 #126
leftofcool Jan 2017 #128
otohara Jan 2017 #129
still_one Jan 2017 #132
cstanleytech Jan 2017 #144
still_one Jan 2017 #146
SHRED Jan 2017 #152
Renew Deal Jan 2017 #153
Tarheel_Dem Jan 2017 #154
JustAnotherGen Jan 2017 #157
Arazi Jan 2017 #158
jzodda Jan 2017 #167
LexVegas Jan 2017 #177
QC Jan 2017 #178
Larkspur Jan 2017 #179
QC Jan 2017 #181
MoonRiver Jan 2017 #182

Response to boston bean (Original post)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 06:57 PM

1. I am too

 

Angry at the double standards. Angry at the way he fights against political correctness and 'identity' politics. Angry at how he never acknowledged that he is part of the reason for the way his peeps acted. Angry most that he wanted Obama primaried and started the meme that Hillary was somehow bought and sold by corporate interests. Angry that he wants to work with Trump.

I will never back any movement with him attached to it.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #1)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 07:00 PM

2. That's shallow as hell. Eco omic justice for all is good for america. If you want to shit on that

because of a personal grudge, that's small and petty.

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Response to dionysus (Reply #2)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 07:04 PM

6. What the fuck good is economic justice if we have a nuclear war or if someone as

horrible for economic justice as trump takes over?

No, we had to all GLADLY vote for her the instant Bernie lost and maybe he should have supported her sooner.

BTW , voted for him and was a fan of his long LONG time before most here.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #6)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 07:52 PM

24. Again, most all bernie supporters voted for her. This continual blaming

Ghost bernie voters for her losing is WEAK.

She had enough weaknesses of her own, bernie was not a ralph nader who caused her to lose. Jesus. She had her own faults.

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Response to dionysus (Reply #24)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 07:55 PM

29. Nah, too many of them voted 3rd party

http://heavy.com/news/2016/11/jill-stein-gary-johnson-hillary-clinton-election-results-lost-lose-third-party-presidential-florida-michigan-pennsylvania-wisconsin-final-votes/

or not at all because of the stupid shit they believed about Hillary, like she was WEAK.

Nah, anybody who would have voted were it not for her or did vote 3rd party, as seen at this link, is why this planet is now fucked.

OWN IT

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #29)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 08:41 PM

56. How many? Got any figures? There isnt many of them.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #29)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 09:59 PM

115. 90% of Bernie supporters voted proudly for Clinton.. I was one of them.. We NEED move on now, and

STAND UNITED against the Republicans...

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Response to dionysus (Reply #24)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 09:29 PM

95. But too many of them did NOT vote for Clinton.

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Response to dionysus (Reply #24)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 10:52 PM

131. Thanks dionysus

I was a Bernie supporter as were all the women in my family through several generations. But when push came to shove--we all voted for HRC.

I don't know a single Bernie supporter---and I know many dozens because of activism---that didn't vote for her in the final hour. Just as Bernie campaigned for her, we did our job.

It's strange how much satisfaction some of her supporters seem to get from continuing to dump on Bernie who right now is spearheading a major rescue of the Democratic party across the country.



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Response to zentrum (Reply #131)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 07:58 AM

162. +1,000 Pretty much the way I am seeing it also.

But, the complaints will go on and on and on, ignoring the facts, because that is the easy and convenient way to go. At least Bernie has been fighting the good fight since. Where has Hillary been? And, yes, like most of us Bernie supporters, I did indeed vote for her. I am, after all, a Democrat.

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Response to dionysus (Reply #24)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 11:01 PM

133. I don't blame Bernie, but I do hold a grudge at those progressives who refused to vote for Hillary

in the GE.

In the hearings that have been going on with the trump nominees, he has been asking the right questions


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Response to dionysus (Reply #24)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 04:51 AM

155. Not enough, especially young voters. Bernie's attacks hurt their views of Hillary,

and too many voted third party or not at all.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #155)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 07:56 AM

161. +1, this is the FACT that Sanders, M$M and Sanders supporters wont admit too... HRC Young vote was

... cut in half relative to Obama IIRC

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Response to dionysus (Reply #24)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 11:17 AM

176. I was a national convention delegate

Each candidate had approval rights over their delegates. The Clinton delegates were carefully vetted. The Sanders delegates were either not vetted or were selected on whether they hated the Democratic party. At the Texas Democratic Party Convention, a Sanders delegate was duly elected by his caucus but was removed and replaced by a BOB. The replaced Sanders delegate would not say that he hated Clinton and so had to be removed. Again, this was an action taken by the Sanders campaign directly.

The Clinton campaign had a "whipping infrastructure" and we saw everything that Sanders sent to his delegates and had reports of every meeting that Sanders had with his delegates. Sanders sent one text message to his supporters that was very weak and never told his supporters to stop attacking Clinton delegates. I was at the delegation breakfast where the younger sanders delegates marched in with linked arms to demand that we condemn Clinton and vote for Sanders. The next morning Sanders came to our delegation (this has been scheduled for a while) and did not apologize. Sanders spent the entire time talking about himself and only mentioned Hillary Clinton as he was leaving the room.

The claim that Sanders did everything to convince his followers to support Hillary Clinton is not consistent with what I saw at the convention.

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Response to dionysus (Reply #2)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 07:23 PM

14. He shits on what I believe is good for all

 

His utopia is not mine

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Response to bravenak (Reply #14)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 07:37 PM

16. You must have a fucked up idea of utopia. Please detail what you abhor so much. I'm dying to hear it

Explain what he "shit on" please, if you can.

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Response to dionysus (Reply #16)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 08:18 PM

40. My identity as a black woman fighting for the rights of those who look like me

 

That's what. Him shittinv on political correctness is saying to me that he cares not a whit about how difficult it is for those of us protected by political correctness to navagate this nation. Very insensitive. His call for neutral identity, when he told that woman who wanted to be the second Latina to meet her particular goal, he told her not to focus on her race or her gender but to focus on what he thought she should focus on. That's fine for a white man, but for those of us who have no role models in particular area, it's ignoring who we are. How hard WE work in particular. How we need strong black and hispanic leaders for our children to look up to. White people already have them. In every field. Especially White men, as the rest of us have not had the FREEDOM to do so as long as you. He ignores the history of minorities and is insensitive in speaking. We already have a bombastic person as president tomorrow. One who feels the same way about identity politics and political correctness. Why should I accept it from right and left and just take it because he offers me money? Respect. I told you. That is the issue. Fuck money. It wont last anyhow and folks will find a way to not give us our share just like every time. We have no reason to trust him to be any different.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #40)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 08:21 PM

42. Aside from maybe suggesting the use of paragraphs, you think he's racist, don't you?

You think he's racist and sexist, is that right?

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Response to dionysus (Reply #42)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 08:23 PM

44. I think he is a throw back to the split between economic justice and social justice in the late

 

sixties and early seventies. I think he thinks his justice is more important than mine. He has said as much.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #44)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 09:43 PM

103. There's lots of work to do

Bernie definitely made some grave mistakes and kept making them even after they were pointed out to him.

I hope the work gets done, but I'm not holding my breath. Instead I'm getting to work myself. First stop Women's March, next organizing at the local level. All of us will need luck.

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Response to dionysus (Reply #42)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 09:19 PM

91. If you are going to suggest she use paragraphs...

 

Please get to work cleaning up some of the errors in your post. You referred to her as shallow a bit ago. This suggestion of yours is shallow.

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Response to dionysus (Reply #2)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 08:44 PM

60. I'm so sick of fake Democrats, aren't you?

 

Their desperation to live in fantasy may doom the party, I'm afraid.

Scapegoats everywhere, as an impervious attitude, enable mainstreamers to ignore reality.

It's Bernie, it's the Ruskies, blah blah blah.
Absolutely no ability to take responsibility at all.

The future is dimmed partly by Trump, and partly by mainstream Democratic Party obtuseness.



I'm with you, dionysus.

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Response to nikto (Reply #60)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 08:46 PM

64. Thx

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Response to dionysus (Reply #2)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 11:34 PM

136. Where does poster 'shit on economic justice'? Hint: she doesn't

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Response to bravenak (Reply #1)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 09:31 PM

96. +1000

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Response to bravenak (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 11:11 AM

170. Same here

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #170)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 11:15 AM

173. I will not let it go I guess

 

I refuse to feel guilty

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 07:00 PM

3. "Dont bash Democratic Figures" Alert

I had to reject it as he is not and has never been a Democrat.

Besides - I completely agree with what you have written .

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Response to pkdu (Reply #3)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 08:49 PM

69. +1 (nt)

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Response to pkdu (Reply #3)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 08:53 PM

74. You gotta read what the rule says as per Skinner

 

Why we have this rule: Our forum members support and admire a wide variety of Democratic politicians and public figures. Constructive criticism is always welcome, but our members don't expect to see Democrats viciously denigrated on this website. This rule also applies to Independents who align themselves with Democrats (eg: Bernie Sanders).

This post does break this rule.

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Response to Feeling the Bern (Reply #74)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 09:45 PM

105. Many see the OP as "constructive criticism".

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Response to pkdu (Reply #3)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 09:34 PM

98. And he never will be a Democratic Figure.

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Response to stonecutter357 (Reply #98)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 10:38 PM

125. You gotta read what the rule says as per Skinner

 

Why we have this rule: Our forum members support and admire a wide variety of Democratic politicians and public figures. Constructive criticism is always welcome, but our members don't expect to see Democrats viciously denigrated on this website. This rule also applies to Independents who align themselves with Democrats (eg: Bernie Sanders).

Sorry but the rules of the admin disagree with you. Get it out of your system. I can't wait to alert all professional Bernie haters.

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Response to Feeling the Bern (Reply #125)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 05:49 AM

156. I don't gotta do shit, bernie IS NOT A Democratic party Member.

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Response to Feeling the Bern (Reply #125)


Response to Feeling the Bern (Reply #125)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 11:16 AM

175. They also prohibit talking about the rules, lol. nt

 

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Response to pkdu (Reply #3)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 10:03 PM

117. The rule specifically mentions Bernie as a person who is included among those

who should not be bashed

Don't bash Democratic public figures

Do not post disrespectful nicknames, insults, or highly inflammatory attacks against any Democratic public figures. Do not post anything that could be construed as bashing, trashing, undermining, or depressing turnout for any Democratic general election candidate, and do not compare any Democratic general election candidate unfavorably to their general election opponent(s).

Why we have this rule: Our forum members support and admire a wide variety of Democratic politicians and public figures. Constructive criticism is always welcome, but our members don't expect to see Democrats viciously denigrated on this website. This rule also applies to Independents who align themselves with Democrats (eg: Bernie Sanders).

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Response to tblue37 (Reply #117)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 11:16 AM

174. They also prohibit talking about the rules, lol. nt

 

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Response to pkdu (Reply #3)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 10:45 PM

127. DU rules explicitly prohibit bashing him.

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Response to JudyM (Reply #127)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 11:14 AM

172. They also prohibit talking about the rules, lol. nt

 

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 07:01 PM

4. I prefer Bernie's politics in most cases, not all, to hers.

Having said that, and noting that most of the blame for this nightmare goes to 3rd party voters, if Bernie had shown more support for her I think we would be talking about her ceremony, not the ceremony of this nazi.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #4)


Response to Post removed (Reply #11)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 07:41 PM

19. Not so at all. She got 3 million more votes, remember? Are you purposely ignoring the elephant in ..

in the room?

Repugs cheat, they've always cheated, and they cheated in this election to "win".

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Response to Post removed (Reply #11)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 07:53 PM

26. Sanders was a very weak general election candidate who would have been destroyed in the general

The Sanders campaign did not appeal to many demographic groups (including the Jewish vote) for a host of reasons. One good reason is that Sanders repeatedly attacked President Obama which alienated a large number of key demographic groups. There is a vast difference in how Sanders supporters and Sanders view President Obama and how other Democrats view President Obama. I admit that I am impressed with the amount accomplished by President Obama in face of the stiff GOP opposition to every one of his proposals and I personally believe that President Obama has been a great President. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/clinton-sanders-obama_us_56aa378de4b05e4e3703753a?utm_hp_ref=politics

But lurking behind this argument about the future is a dispute that's really about the past. It’s a debate over what Obama accomplished in office -- in particular, how significant those accomplishments really are. And it's been simmering on the left for most of the last seven years.

On one side of this divide are activists and intellectuals who are ambivalent, disappointed or flat-out frustrated with what Obama has gotten done. They acknowledge what they consider modest achievements -- like helping some of the uninsured and preventing the Great Recession from becoming another Great Depression. But they are convinced that the president could have accomplished much more if only he’d fought harder for his agenda and been less quick to compromise.

They dwell on the opportunities missed, like the lack of a public option in health care reform or the failure to break up the big banks. They want those things now -- and more. In Sanders, they are hearing a candidate who thinks the same way.

On the other side are partisans and thinkers who consider Obama's achievements substantial, even historic. They acknowledge that his victories were partial and his legislation flawed. This group recognizes that there are still millions of people struggling to find good jobs or pay their medical bills, and that the planet is still on a path to catastrophically high temperatures. But they see in the last seven years major advances in the liberal crusade to bolster economic security for the poor and middle class. They think the progress on climate change is real, and likely to beget more in the future.

Again, I am not ashamed to admit that I like President Obama and think that he has accomplished a great deal which is why I did not mind Hillary Clinton promising to continue President Obama's legacy. There are valid reasons why many non-African American democrats (me included) and many African American Democratic voters did not support Sanders and will have issues with Keith Ellison as DNC chair.

I like living in the real world. In the real world there were valid reasons why Sanders was rejected by key demographic groups and you can not pretend that these groups will support Sanders plans to remake the Democratic Party in his own image with Ellison.

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #26)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 08:37 PM

51. If Sanders was nominee then Bloomberg would have Run

 

and Bloomberg would of taken moderate Dem and Rep votes then most likely #Bloombergwouldofwon.

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Response to Chevy (Reply #51)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 08:57 PM

79. Yep

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #26)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 08:52 PM

73. You know you post this constantly and without fail people pretend they don't know those points...

or refuse to acknowledge them.

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Response to JHan (Reply #73)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 08:57 PM

78. You can expose people to the facts

Facts are a good thing, I am happy to post the facts. If people want to ignore the facts then that is their problem

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #78)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 09:47 PM

107. As the saying goes, "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink it."

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Response to Post removed (Reply #11)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 08:04 PM

34. The DNC had nothing to do with the fact that Jewish, African American and Latino voters rejected

Sanders.

Sanders was soundly rejected by three key groups in the base of the Democratic Party. Sanders was rejected by Jewish, African American and Latino voters and got less than 43% of the vote in the primaries The DNC had nothing to do with the fact that Jewish, African American and Latino voters rejected him. Sanders was rejected by Jewish, African American and Latino votes. Sanders did not come close to getting enough votes.
http://pleasecutthecrap.com/a-message-for-hardcore-bernie-stans/

Hillary Cinton won the nomination because of democracy. She received more than 57% of Democratic votes cast. Bernie Sanders virtually only won caucuses, which are the least democratic aspect of the primary process. And most of those he won only because she decided to save her money for the General election. He won very few primaries, except for his “home states” and Michigan and his clock was cleaned in virtually every other state that mattered. Demographically, he only won white liberals. The fact that YOU think he made it close, or only lost because of “Super Delegates” is a hallmark of your delusion. Bernie Stans largely didn’t seem to notice that she reached out to you repeatedly and you bit her hand off, making you more like Republicans than you should be comfortable with.

Sanders could not win the popular vote and was in the process only due to caucuses. The claim that the DNC fixed the primary process is wrong http://www.newsweek.com/myths-cost-democrats-presidential-election-521044

Easily the most ridiculous argument this year was that the DNC was some sort of monolith that orchestrated the nomination of Hillary Clinton against the will of “the people.” This was immensely popular with the Bernie-or-Busters, those who declared themselves unwilling to vote for Clinton under any circumstances because the Democratic primary had been rigged (and how many of these people laughed when Trump started moaning about election rigging?). The notion that the fix was in was stupid, as were the people who believed it.

Start with this: The DNC, just like the Republican National Committee, is an impotent organization with very little power. It is composed of the chair and vice chair of the Democratic parties of each state, along with over 200 members elected by Democrats. What it does is fundraise, organize the Democratic National Convention and put together the party platform. It handles some organizational activity but tries to hold down its expenditures during the primaries; it has no authority to coordinate spending with any candidate until the party’s nominee is selected. This was why then-President Richard Nixon reacted with incredulity when he heard that some of his people had ordered a break-in at the DNC offices at the Watergate; he couldn’t figure out what information anyone would want out of such a toothless organization.....

According to a Western European intelligence source, Russian hackers, using a series of go-betweens, transmitted the DNC emails to WikiLeaks with the intent of having them released on the verge of the Democratic Convention in hopes of sowing chaos. And that’s what happened—just a couple of days before Democrats gathered in Philadelphia, the emails came out, and suddenly the media was loaded with stories about trauma in the party. Crews of Russian propagandists—working through an array of Twitter accounts and websites, started spreading the story that the DNC had stolen the election from Sanders. (An analysis provided to Newsweek by independent internet and computer specialists using a series of algorithms show that this kind of propaganda, using the same words, went from Russian disinformation sources to comment sections on more than 200 sites catering to liberals, conservatives, white supremacists, nutritionists and an amazing assortment of other interest groups.) The fact that the dates of the most controversial emails—May 3, May 4, May 5, May 9, May 16, May 17, May 18, May 21—were after it was impossible for Sanders to win was almost never mentioned, and was certainly ignored by the propagandists trying to sell the “primaries were rigged” narrative. (Yes, one of them said something inappropriate about his religious beliefs. So a guy inside the DNC was a jerk; that didn’t change the outcome.) Two other emails—one from April 24 and May 1—were statements of fact. In the first, responding to Sanders saying he would push for a contested convention (even though he would not have the delegates to do so), a DNC official wrote, “So much for a traditional presumptive nominee.” Yeah, no kidding. The second stated that Sanders didn’t know what the DNC’s job actually was—which he didn’t, apparently because he had not ever been a Democrat before his run.

Bottom line: The “scandalous” DNC emails were hacked by people working with the Kremlin, then misrepresented online by Russian propagandists to gullible fools who never checked the dates of the documents. And the media, which in the flurry of breathless stories about the emails would occasionally mention that they were all dated after any rational person knew the nomination was Clinton’s, fed into the misinformation.

In the real world, here is what happened: Clinton got 16.9 million votes in the primaries, compared with 13.2 million for Sanders. The rules were never changed to stop him, even though Sanders supporters started calling for them to be changed as his losses piled up.

I was a delegate to the national convention and I saw much of this silliness first hand. Ignoring that Hillary Clinton got 3.7 million more votes than Sanders does not help your case

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Response to Post removed (Reply #11)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 08:10 PM

38. Sanders was in the race for media and was rejected by Jewish, Latino and African American voters

It was Sanders who helped get Trump elected by running in the Democratic Primary solely for media coverage in order to sell books. Sanders had zero chance of being the nominee in the real world. Sanders never had a chance of being the nominee. Sanders was rejected by Jewish, African American and Latino voters. Sanders did not have the support of the base of the party. There was no way that Sanders would be the nominee unless he could get the support of the Jewish, African American and Latino voters are key elements in the base. The support of mainly white voters are not sufficient for Sanders to be the nominee in the real world.

Second, Sanders was never really running to win. After Super Tuesday, it was clear that Sanders would not be the nominee. Hillary Clinrton had a delegate lead that Sanders could not over come. Sanders was not really running to be the nominee but to get attention

Second, even Sanders admitted that he was running for media coverage and money http://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-dem-primary-live-updates-and-results/2016/03/bernie-sanders-independent-media-coverage-220747

Bernie Sanders on Monday told NBC’s Chuck Todd that he ran as a Democrat to get more media coverage.

During a town hall-style event in Columbus, Ohio, the independent Vermont senator said, “In terms of media coverage, you have to run within the Democratic Party.” He then took a dig at MNSBC, telling Todd, the network “would not have me on his program” if he ran as an independent.

Money also played a role in his decision to run as a Democrat, Sanders added.

“To run as an independent, you need — you could be a billionaire," he said. "If you're a billionaire, you can do that. I'm not a billionaire. So the structure of American politics today is such that I thought the right ethic was to run within the Democratic Party.”

Third, Sanders would have been killed by the oppo research Trump had an oppo book on Sanders that was two feet thick. http://www.newsweek.com/myths-cost-democrats-presidential-election-521044

They ignored the fact that Sanders had not yet faced a real campaign against him. Clinton was in the delicate position of dealing with a large portion of voters who treated Sanders more like the Messiah than just another candidate. She was playing the long game—attacking Sanders strongly enough to win, but gently enough to avoid alienating his supporters. Given her overwhelming support from communities of color—for example, about 70 percent of African-American voters cast their ballot for her—Clinton had a firewall that would be difficult for Sanders to breach....

So what would have happened when Sanders hit a real opponent, someone who did not care about alienating the young college voters in his base? I have seen the opposition book assembled by Republicans for Sanders, and it was brutal. The Republicans would have torn him apart. And while Sanders supporters might delude themselves into believing that they could have defended him against all of this, there is a name for politicians who play defense all the time: losers....

The Republicans had at least four other damning Sanders videos (I don’t know what they showed), and the opposition research folder was almost 2-feet thick. (The section calling him a communist with connections to Castro alone would have cost him Florida.) In other words, the belief that Sanders would have walked into the White House based on polls taken before anyone really attacked him is a delusion built on a scaffolding of political ignorance.

Trump would have destroyed Sanders in the general election

BTW, are Jews included in your post since Jews also rejected Sanders?

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #38)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 10:00 PM

116. Primary has nothing to do with the general

 

In the Primary, you chase reliable registered voters and super delegates (reliable party elite). In the General, you have those and chase independents. Apples and oranges.

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Response to HoneyBadger (Reply #116)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 11:10 AM

169. Have you bought his latest book yet?

Sanders is only in this for the money

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #4)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 07:45 PM

20. Sanders proposals were all based on a magical and mythical voter revolution

Sanders platform could never be adopted in the real world in that such platform relied on a magical and mythical voter revolution where millions/billions/trillions of new voters would rise up and force the GOP to be reasonable. That revolution was a fairy tale which meant that all of sanders agenda items were a fantasy wish list The Sanders revolution has been a bust http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/04/bernie-sanders-democratic-party-new-york-primary-213829

And yet, the “revolution” that Sanders called for didn’t show up. Clinton’s 16-point New York win is simply the exclamation point. First, electorally, Sanders hasn’t been able to win any states on Clinton’s natural turf, while she picked off states like blue-collar Ohio and quintessentially liberal Massachusetts. Eleven of his 16 state wins were in low-turnout caucus states, while she has dominated well-populated primary states. He struggled to win the votes of older voters and whiffed with Southern African-Americans.

But on a more important level, Sanders has also failed to substantially change the Democratic Party at its core: its acceptance of big-dollar fundraising and incremental policy advancement. That was a tough task for Sanders, especially considering he had steered clear of the party for most of his political career until his presidential quest (prompting Hillary to remark at one point, “I’m not even sure he is a Democrat”). For all his success at the polls, Sanders’ ideologically pure campaign foundered on the predictable shoals of policy specifics and political feasibility, obstacles that a progressive populist movement will need to overcome to truly succeed.....

Another Sanders misstep was making his campaign look like a hostile takeover of the Democratic Party apparatus—a great strategy for winning left-leaning independents but not so much for the larger pool of registered Democrats.

I like living in the real world and dealing with proposals that can be adopted in the real world. Sanders turned me off because there was no way that he could deliver on his promises.

Where are the millions/billions/trillions of new voters that Sanders promised and which were needed to make the GOP act reasonable ?


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Response to Gothmog (Reply #20)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 07:48 PM

21. Still preferred them, and until we have actual politicians in power promoting them, we cant

expect to see them happen.

But I now wish Bernie had not even run, had he not she would have won, but she won anyway BTW and the voting machines in those 3 rust belt states were hacked by Russians.

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #20)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 08:05 PM

35. Ah, the same spam! You call bernies new deal era shit magical?

Makes me wonder if you have a clue what liberalism is about.

If you think health care, education, and fairness to labor is some kind of far left commie shit, i shudder to think what you think ARE democratic ideals... here's a hint.. 1990s clinton era moderate republicanism ISNT...

Here's a clue. When you bow down to corporate money because you think grass roots are icky, when you think sticking up for people over corporations is far left...the voters will pick real republicans every time.

So keep blaming the liberals, keep siding with money... god forbid you stop blaming anyone but the neolibs who brought you to the dance

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Response to dionysus (Reply #35)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 08:19 PM

41. Exactly how many how many new/magical voters did Sanders need for his proposals?

I am curious to see what that number was. Sanders agenda was so unrealistic that it turned off voters who knew how the real world worked. Sanders proposal required millions or billions or trillions of new voter to be viable Bernie Sanders just admitted that his so-called revolution is a failure. Sanders was unable to motivate and get poor people to vote which doomed his so-called revolution http://www.vox.com/2016/4/25/11497822/sanders-political-revolution-vote

The point of the "political revolution" was that Sanders would change who was turning out to vote

The problem with Sanders saying he's losing because "poor people don't vote," though, is that this wasn't a sad truth that he and his campaign discovered over the last several weeks. It — or rather, the possibility of fixing it — was at the core of his entire theory of winning.

Sanders isn't just running on his policy agenda. He's running on the idea of a "political revolution" that will allow him to accomplish that agenda. The theory of the "political revolution" is that Americans are so eager for free college and Medicare for all that they will not only sweep Bernie Sanders to the White House if he's nominated, but will elect more, and more progressive, Democrats down-ballot will then vote to pass Sanders's agenda through Congress.

Among people who typically vote, these policies aren't that popular. The "political revolution" is only plausible if it's about changing the composition of the electorate: bringing new people to the polls who don't normally vote, even in presidential elections.

But on those grounds, the "political revolution" theory is quite plausible. As Vox's Dylan Matthews pointed out earlier this month, 30 percent of eligible voters aren't registered to vote, or aren't accurately listed in the voter databases that campaigns use. Those voters are basically ignored by candidates. And, just like the nonvoting population as a whole, they're more likely to be poor than voters are — and more likely to support liberal policies on government spending.

A candidate who can figure out how to reach out to that 30 percent of voters could actually make a political revolution happen — or, at least, bring the median American voter to the left.

Bernie Sanders isn't the candidate who can make the "political revolution" happen

It's hard to mobilize that 30 percent of could-be voters, though. And it's pretty clear, at this point, that Sanders hasn't pulled it off.

Sanders hasn't been pulling in remarkable numbers of first-time primary voters. His base looks a lot like the existing progressive wing of the Democratic Party — the people who voted for Howard Dean over John Kerry and Bill Bradley over Al Gore.

The premise of Sanders' so-called revolution is that he would be able to motivate millions and millions of new voters which Sanders has failed to do.

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Response to dionysus (Reply #35)


Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #4)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 07:57 PM

30. I think if the campaign and their surrogates made the primary campaign about...

.... issues instead of the opponents supporters, we might be celebrating tomorrow.

That's what sucks about such a razor thin loss. Probably any of a dozen mistakes might have made a difference if we went the other way.

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #30)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 07:59 PM

31. Nonsense. What you are saying is Trump was preferred since Hillary

didnt mention something more often, since she did make it about issues often but if she had only mentioned jobs more then we would have voted for her.

fucking spare me

This is rightwing bullshit. I am sick of it.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #31)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 08:04 PM

32. You must have responded in the wrong place or didn't read my post. Try again.

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #32)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 08:11 PM

39. No, i responded and assumed you were criticizing Hillary's campaign, not Bernie's

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #30)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 08:37 PM

52. Would you be celebrating an HRC win? nt

 

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #30)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 09:22 PM

93. +1

 

"That's what sucks about such a razor thin loss. Probably any of a dozen mistakes might have made a difference if we went the other way."

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #30)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 09:48 PM

111. The campaign was primarily about issues.

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #30)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 07:58 AM

163. +1

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 07:01 PM

5. The only positive thing I can think of about tomorrow

is that this sort of whining will be done with.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #5)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 07:09 PM

7. You may think it whining as is your right.

However, it is also the truth.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #7)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 10:17 PM

120. I think it's whining too, and it's a pity because I think you

Often have something worthwhile to say when you aren't just throwing stones at Bernie Sanders.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #5)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 07:22 PM

10. Yes!

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #5)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 07:41 PM

18. Yes but the hard feelings will not be going away anytime soon

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #5)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 08:38 PM

54. It won't go away. It will just move to a different location.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #5)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 08:52 PM

72. Because nothing says "Democratic" like limiting discussion. (nt)

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #5)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 10:50 PM

130. He Won't Stop Trashing Democrats

 

will he?

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #5)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 08:08 AM

165. Oh, I'm betting it will not be done with.

The whining and blaming everyone else will go on for the next four years.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 07:17 PM

8. 'Politics ain't beanbag'...

 

First, Clinton really did win - in the popular vote and the fact that this was another stolen election.

To blame somebody else or get angry at her competition is inappropriate.

According to the electoral college - Clinton lost and it is very unfortunate. Just remember, Senator Sanders
is someone that can be absolutely trusted to promote and fight for progressive, liberal, and Democratic values.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 07:20 PM

9. Hillary wanted Obama to Win

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Response to JI7 (Reply #9)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 07:23 PM

12. you are correct. She supported him 100%

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 07:23 PM

13. If Sanders had never run for president I'd still like him very much.

Sad.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 07:28 PM

15. Well, that's helpful.

He's still out there grilling the daylights out of these reprehensible Trump (the REAL enemy) nominees, Hillary is nowhere to be found, and he's the bad guy?

Thank heaven the 2016 postmortem feature will be dead very soon.

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Response to TheCowsCameHome (Reply #15)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 08:45 PM

62. Excellent poiny

Hillary says, let's give him a chance.

Bernie is fighting.

And people still want to herald Hillary as some hero? She threw in her towel as soon as it was called.

I wish she won but damn.

When it comes to effort, Bernie's still trying.

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Response to retrowire (Reply #62)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 11:19 PM

134. Nah, bullshit point. Bernie's a sitting Senator. HRC is a private citizen.

Besides, Y'all would just shit on her no matter what she said or did.

Bernie's doing his job as a sitting Senator and doing it quite well.

BTW, Bernie says he wants to work with Trump on areas of common ground. In otherwords, Bernie says give Trump a chance.

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Response to emulatorloo (Reply #134)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 08:13 AM

166. What you are seeming to be saying is that anyone who is not

in office would normally not say anything. Think about that a minute. Or two. So, if Herr Putinfluffer has a bill that does everything that we would like, fight against it? Is that what you are saying?

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 07:40 PM

17. Same Here

I never thought that Sanders was a serious candidate in that all of his positions relied on a mythical and magical revolution to get adopted. Despite the fact that Sanders entire agenda and platform was unrealistic in the real world, Sanders pushed his followers to hurt the Democratic Party.

Sanders was out for media coverage and money. We are seeing this now with his latest book sales.

I will not forgive and I will not forget

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 07:49 PM

22. I am too

And for the same reasons.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 07:52 PM

23. You seem nice

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 07:53 PM

25. I am sure you will still be allowed to trash Bernie once this forum is closed down.

Most of the folks who support Bernie have fled DU and the folks who remain are less likely to hide posts like yours if called for jury duty.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 07:54 PM

27. I'm still having a hard time listening to his voice.

I feel the same way you do.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 07:54 PM

28. We noticed.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)


Response to Post removed (Reply #33)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 08:47 PM

65. As someone made the point up thread

Bernie is still fighting against Trump right now.

Hillary? Where is she? Oh she said give him a chance and we haven't heard from her since.

All this demonizing of Bernie when Hillary should've won with the popular vote is ridiculous. Hillary actually won. Trump got by on a technicality. Bernie didn't cause that.

Bernie didn't cause her loss at all.

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Response to retrowire (Reply #65)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 11:26 PM

135. Sorry, Bernie said give Trump a chance as well.

Last edited Fri Jan 20, 2017, 12:06 AM - Edit history (1)

He says he'll work with Trump on areas where the have common ground.

It is totally great when Bernie says it, but HRC is the one who gets demonized.

I don't get your double standard.

I supported Bernie in the primary and voted HRC in the general.

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Response to retrowire (Reply #65)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 02:01 AM

145. Whats she supposed to say? She doesnt hold office anywhere currently and anything she says against

Trump now could easily be turned against her as sour grape for losing right now.
We will probably hear from her again though but it wont be until the midterms at the earliest or in about 4 years when its time to kick the trash out to the curb from the whitehouse though I doubt it will be because she is running but rather I suspect she will throw her support behind whoever is running against Donald.

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #145)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 07:35 AM

159. I currently see celebrities and all kinds of private citizens speaking up.

Don't you? What's that march happening today?

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 08:06 PM

36. No, The Systems Not Totally Rigged. But That Idea Sure Helped Donald Trump.

I agree that Sanders hurt the party. Here is a good example Sanders really hurting Clinton. I am still mad at the number of times that trump used Sanders' claims against Clinton. Sanders' baseless charges that the system was fixed and rigged were used by trump to great effect and hurt Clinton http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/rigged-system-donald-trump_us_5855cb44e4b08debb7898607?section=us_politics

And if Sanders’ rhetoric during the primaries started that stew simmering with his talk about the system only working for the rich, Trump brought it to a full boil with his remarks blaming undocumented immigrants and trade agreements that he claimed were forged as the result of open corruption.

I think he was able to thread a certain toxic needle. But he did win, and we’re all going to pay the price.
John Weaver, aide to Ohio Gov. John Kasich’s presidential campaign

The underlying irony for those who sought to end what they perceived as corruption is that they may well have elected a president whose record through the years and whose actions since the election signal it could be the most openly corrupt administration in generations.....

And if Sanders’ rhetoric during the primaries started that stew simmering with his talk about the system only working for the rich, Trump brought it to a full boil with his remarks blaming undocumented immigrants and trade agreements that he claimed were forged as the result of open corruption.

Sanders' bogus rigged process claim hurt a great deal.

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #36)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 08:38 PM

53. It sure did help Donald Trump. It was over a year of slamming the party without being

accountable for anything he said. It was very divisive and actually just nasty. Notice how Sanders and Trump don't talk about a rigged system anymore, so they obviously got what they wanted out of their smears.

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Response to R B Garr (Reply #53)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 08:55 PM

77. Sanders claimed that the DNC rigged the process and Trump ran with this bogus claim

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #77)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 02:12 AM

147. I thought that there were emails showing some of the DNC leadership were working against Bernie?

I'm not faulting them for it exactly if they did because it was largely a problem caused by Bernie himself with his decision to only caucus with the Democrats and his refusal to join the party and then suddenly when he wants to run for president he wants to to do it as a Democrat and that probably pissed off a number of people in the DNC who had worked had for the party for decades to suddenly have someone who refused to join demanding to be let in just so they could run for President and to top it off as soon as the primaries are over the person gives the party a big middle finger and goes back to being an independent.

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #147)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 11:07 AM

168. The DNC had nothing to do with Sanders being soundly rejected by Jewish, African American and Latino

voters

Sanders was soundly rejected by three key groups in the base of the Democratic Party. Sanders was rejected by Jewish, African American and Latino voters and got less than 43% of the vote in the primaries The DNC had nothing to do with the fact that Jewish, African American and Latino voters rejected him. Sanders was rejected by Jewish, African American and Latino votes. Sanders did not come close to getting enough votes.
http://pleasecutthecrap.com/a-message-for-hardcore-bernie-stans/

Hillary Cinton won the nomination because of democracy. She received more than 57% of Democratic votes cast. Bernie Sanders virtually only won caucuses, which are the least democratic aspect of the primary process. And most of those he won only because she decided to save her money for the General election. He won very few primaries, except for his “home states” and Michigan and his clock was cleaned in virtually every other state that mattered. Demographically, he only won white liberals. The fact that YOU think he made it close, or only lost because of “Super Delegates” is a hallmark of your delusion. Bernie Stans largely didn’t seem to notice that she reached out to you repeatedly and you bit her hand off, making you more like Republicans than you should be comfortable with.

Sanders could not win the popular vote and was in the process only due to caucuses. The claim that the DNC fixed the primary process is wrong http://www.newsweek.com/myths-cost-democrats-presidential-election-521044

Easily the most ridiculous argument this year was that the DNC was some sort of monolith that orchestrated the nomination of Hillary Clinton against the will of “the people.” This was immensely popular with the Bernie-or-Busters, those who declared themselves unwilling to vote for Clinton under any circumstances because the Democratic primary had been rigged (and how many of these people laughed when Trump started moaning about election rigging?). The notion that the fix was in was stupid, as were the people who believed it.

Start with this: The DNC, just like the Republican National Committee, is an impotent organization with very little power. It is composed of the chair and vice chair of the Democratic parties of each state, along with over 200 members elected by Democrats. What it does is fundraise, organize the Democratic National Convention and put together the party platform. It handles some organizational activity but tries to hold down its expenditures during the primaries; it has no authority to coordinate spending with any candidate until the party’s nominee is selected. This was why then-President Richard Nixon reacted with incredulity when he heard that some of his people had ordered a break-in at the DNC offices at the Watergate; he couldn’t figure out what information anyone would want out of such a toothless organization.....

According to a Western European intelligence source, Russian hackers, using a series of go-betweens, transmitted the DNC emails to WikiLeaks with the intent of having them released on the verge of the Democratic Convention in hopes of sowing chaos. And that’s what happened—just a couple of days before Democrats gathered in Philadelphia, the emails came out, and suddenly the media was loaded with stories about trauma in the party. Crews of Russian propagandists—working through an array of Twitter accounts and websites, started spreading the story that the DNC had stolen the election from Sanders. (An analysis provided to Newsweek by independent internet and computer specialists using a series of algorithms show that this kind of propaganda, using the same words, went from Russian disinformation sources to comment sections on more than 200 sites catering to liberals, conservatives, white supremacists, nutritionists and an amazing assortment of other interest groups.) The fact that the dates of the most controversial emails—May 3, May 4, May 5, May 9, May 16, May 17, May 18, May 21—were after it was impossible for Sanders to win was almost never mentioned, and was certainly ignored by the propagandists trying to sell the “primaries were rigged” narrative. (Yes, one of them said something inappropriate about his religious beliefs. So a guy inside the DNC was a jerk; that didn’t change the outcome.) Two other emails—one from April 24 and May 1—were statements of fact. In the first, responding to Sanders saying he would push for a contested convention (even though he would not have the delegates to do so), a DNC official wrote, “So much for a traditional presumptive nominee.” Yeah, no kidding. The second stated that Sanders didn’t know what the DNC’s job actually was—which he didn’t, apparently because he had not ever been a Democrat before his run.

Bottom line: The “scandalous” DNC emails were hacked by people working with the Kremlin, then misrepresented online by Russian propagandists to gullible fools who never checked the dates of the documents. And the media, which in the flurry of breathless stories about the emails would occasionally mention that they were all dated after any rational person knew the nomination was Clinton’s, fed into the misinformation.

In the real world, here is what happened: Clinton got 16.9 million votes in the primaries, compared with 13.2 million for Sanders. The rules were never changed to stop him, even though Sanders supporters started calling for them to be changed as his losses piled up.

I was a delegate to the national convention and I saw much of this silliness first hand. Ignoring that Hillary Clinton got 3.7 million more votes than Sanders does not help your case

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #168)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 12:28 PM

180. Umm I'm not making any case for Bernie here I am simply asking a question.

Besides in the end when it came down to choosing Bernie or Hillary I choose Hillary as I felt she was the best chance we had at winning as there was no way Bernie would sway many if any of the right leaning voters.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 08:06 PM

37. Don't be angry at Bernie because it will keep you from seeing who he really is

and why he got into the race in the first place. Use your energy to support Democrats including up and coming ones like Pete B an Indiana mayor, Julian Castro, Patrick Murphy, Kamala Harris, and Tom Perez.

The FBI and 5 intel agencies are investigating Trump and his executive team re Russian ties (monetary and otherwise). Bernie Sanders, Gary Johnson and Jill Stein are going to come up in that investigation.) The Russian coup didn't just affect the outcome of the presidential race. It also changed the results in senate and congressional races.

To learn more about the criminals who will now occupy the WH follow Adam Khan ‏@Khanoisseur and read read read and keep reading.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 08:21 PM

43. Just can't agree

I voted for Hillary in the general, but there is nothing about Bernie's past actions that bugs me particularly, and the distaste shown for him in this thread boggles me. It did bug me a little when Hillary said she was like my abuela though. That was dumb. But she would have been a great president. Why do you have to keep slapping at Bernie supporters? That anger seems destructive to me.

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Response to Chiquitita (Reply #43)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 08:25 PM

45. You read in this thread, me slamming Bernie supporters?

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Response to boston bean (Reply #45)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 08:26 PM

46. Yeah, it felt that way

Mainly the comment that he shits on people's hearts.

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Response to Chiquitita (Reply #46)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 08:27 PM

47. You felt it? and a comment that I said he shits on people's hearts?? mmmmmkay...

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Response to boston bean (Reply #47)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 08:31 PM

48. That wasn't your comment.

But no ill will intended. It's too hard of a night.

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Response to Chiquitita (Reply #43)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 08:49 PM

71. They can't help it

 

Character is destiny, sadly.

As we shall see.

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Response to Chiquitita (Reply #43)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 09:20 PM

92. They love losing

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 08:34 PM

49. Agree! He did a great disservice to Hillary and Democrats, and agree with

everything else you said. He is self-serving to a fault.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 08:36 PM

50. Nonsense. It was his right to run, and he's not the one who stole this election.

That would be this guy:

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 08:41 PM

55. Phew, be glad when this monotonous recrimination ends, at least officially.

 

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 08:42 PM

57. He showed the most respect to her as an opponent

That anyone ever had.

You should be grateful she had such an opponent. No low blows, kept to the issues and even sided with her and supported her 100 percent when he lost.

There, I got mine in under the wire as well.

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Response to retrowire (Reply #57)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 09:42 PM

102. I like yours better

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 08:43 PM

58. Even though I disagree with you I understand your frustration. This was a hard and bitter election

Hopefully you'll come around.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 08:43 PM

59. I feel exactly the same way..but we have to move on...what else can we do?..nt

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Response to asuhornets (Reply #59)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 08:45 PM

61. Not forget how the first female democratic nominee was treated.

I'm not forgetting it.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #61)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 08:49 PM

68. Neither will I...neither will I...nt

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Response to boston bean (Reply #61)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 08:49 PM

70. With the most respect any opponent could give? Won't forget that. Nt

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Response to retrowire (Reply #70)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 11:52 PM

137. Sorry, Weaver made the decision to go negative for New York primary

Baseless smears, innuendo, saying HRC 'made a deal with the Devil.'

Don't tell me that was "respect", because it was flat out negative campaigning

Bernie supporter here, I have much bitterness over Weaver's mishandling of Bernie's campaign. IMHO he did not let Bernie be Bernie.

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Response to emulatorloo (Reply #137)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 12:20 AM

139. But we're talking about Bernie aren't we? Nt

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Response to retrowire (Reply #139)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 12:23 AM

140. Don't piss on my shoes and tell me it's raining

Bernie's campaign manager, Bernie's campaign.

Weaver went negative, so did Bernie.

I blame Weaver because I like Bernie and found Bernie's actions/statements in New York campaign and afterwards as uncharacteristic of the Senator Sanders I know and supported. I know Bernie trusted Weaver, and imho that was a mistake.

Unlike OP I don't blame Bernie for HRC's loss.

However I don't like revisionist history. It was issues oriented up to New York. It was smears and innuendo from then on out.

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Response to emulatorloo (Reply #140)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 07:35 AM

160. Maybe I'm missing something

What innuendo? What smears?

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Response to boston bean (Reply #61)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 09:12 PM

86. Yes. . .campaigning with her after the convention is worse than calling her a nasty woman

 

in a debate.

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Response to Feeling the Bern (Reply #86)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 09:43 PM

104. Are you reading this cognitive dissonance?

Bernie disrespected her? He was the politest opponent any political figure could have had. He pointed out only truths, compared himself to his opponent, didn't throw any low blows, didn't make shit up out of thin air, and these people want to be pissed at Bernie?

Like someone else said, Hillary won the popular vote, Bernie didn't keep her from winning, a dumbass technicality did.

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Response to retrowire (Reply #104)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 09:48 PM

112. Yes, I see it too. But, I guess finger pointing is easier than mirror looking.

 

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Response to Feeling the Bern (Reply #112)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 11:56 PM

138. I see a bunch of revisionist history that is erasing the negative campaign Weaver ran for NY

and continued on to California.

It was all about issues until New York. . Character attacks, smears, innuendo. Weaver went on TV and said HRC made 'a deal with the Devil.' That's not the statement of an "issue-oriented" campaign

Bernie primary supporter, Weaver should have been fired over that shift in strategy.

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Response to emulatorloo (Reply #138)


Response to Post removed (Reply #143)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 02:15 AM

148. Bernie's not the devil. Nor is HRC, despite your half-truths and innuendo.

Personally Bernie was my 1st choice, HRC my 2nd. I don't feel the need to demonize either of them. If you are compelled to do so, knock yourself out.

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Response to emulatorloo (Reply #148)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 02:30 AM

150. Nope. I am backing out of this flamebait thread. This entire thread should have been

 

juried out as flamebait from the OP.

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Response to Feeling the Bern (Reply #150)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 02:35 AM

151. Fair enough. Agreed, it is getting pretty toxic n/t

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 08:46 PM

63. I'm with you. He was more visible in the days after the GE

than in the days after the convention when it would have been useful. His behavior at the convention was childish. He couldn't even stick to his word that he was going to be a Democrat for life after the primaries. His lauded surrogate Tulsi Gabbard is over in Syria doing god knows what, and being very cagy about it.

Prior to this election, I liked Bernie Sanders just fine. But he's very one note as a candidate, and for whatever reason he refused to channel any positive energy into her campaign. I suppose they may have campaigned together once or twice, but I didn't see it. And while I agree with Bernie on his issues, I absolutely do not think he could ever have been as effective a president as Hillary could have. My heart will be broken for a long time.

And as a parting note, it will take me a very long time (if ever) to forgive how his surrogates lashed out at Gloria Steinem, and how he himself said that Planned Parenthood and the HRC were the "establishment" when they endorsed Hillary. They're not. They're good organizations and we will likely be very glad of them in the dark days that lie ahead.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 08:48 PM

66. Agreed (nt)

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 08:54 PM

75. Emotions are running high

around here don't we have other things to think about like getting the country back tRump is gutting programmes left and right.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 08:54 PM

76. When I think I'm over it, some bullshit happens...

like the bullshit of an inconsequential flawed amendment being used to smear a strong democrat.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 08:58 PM

80. Per the jury rules

 

Don't bash Democratic public figures
Do not post disrespectful nicknames, insults, or highly inflammatory attacks against any Democratic public figures. Do not post anything that could be construed as bashing, trashing, undermining, or depressing turnout for any Democratic general election candidate, and do not compare any Democratic general election candidate unfavorably to their general election opponent(s).

Why we have this rule: Our forum members support and admire a wide variety of Democratic politicians and public figures. Constructive criticism is always welcome, but our members don't expect to see Democrats viciously denigrated on this website. This rule also applies to Independents who align themselves with Democrats (eg: Bernie Sanders).

Amazing this Bernie bashing post is allowed to stand.

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Response to Feeling the Bern (Reply #80)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 09:08 PM

83. This is postmortem

 

It ends tomorrow

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Response to bravenak (Reply #83)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 09:09 PM

84. Rules is rules.

 

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Response to Feeling the Bern (Reply #84)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 09:14 PM

88. And the rules are that it is postmortem

 

And it ends Friday

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Response to bravenak (Reply #88)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 09:16 PM

90. Thank the stars. This professional Bernie hate is enough.

 

I have my finger on the alert button starting saturday when i I see professional DU Bernie hate.

I'm curious though if that Don't Bash Democrats rule applies to people like Joe Manchin.

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Response to Feeling the Bern (Reply #90)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 09:34 PM

97. I hope it doesnt apply to folks like him

 

But even if it does I think we can figure it out. From Friday on it will be anti Donald around here all the time. I am so damn glad. The only Dems I will tras will be ones trying to work with Doncon

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Response to Feeling the Bern (Reply #80)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 09:40 PM

101. Sure is! XD nt

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 09:01 PM

81. I can't believe this shit. he will the Prez tomorrow..n/t

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 09:04 PM

82. Even though I believe his refusal to concede helped weaken Hillary a little against Trump

I am not angry with him. Disappointed with him? A little but not angry as I will save my anger for what the Republicans are about to do to our poor nation.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 09:11 PM

85. I am actually upset that he pulled his punches. If he had gone after the email scandal full throttle

instead of his "damn emails" position then we would have president sanders right now.

A fascist rapist is about to be sworn in and you're angry at Sanders. Holy fucking shit.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 09:14 PM

87. Supported Bernie, but voted for HRC

Look guys I know Democrats...Democrats who did not like HRC, thats a fact. NO MATTER WHAT I SAID TO THEM, they refused to vote for her. I know this because I had to beg my own son to vote for her. She had issues, why she could not seal the deal I think I can point to a few missteps. Bill Clinton did not help her... this was a common theme folks told me. Please do not blame Bernie. He did what no other candidate was able to do.
Please understand what a primary is for. I live in PA, so please allow us in the states that vote later to have a say.
BERNIE DID NOT WEAKEN HER. I wish she would have listened to the Bernie supporters, and welcomed them into her campaign. Maybe things would have turned out differently. But it was simply not to be. I am not giving up, it just was not meant to be. Let's learn from this and move on. There are way bigger fish to fry now.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 09:15 PM

89. Your frustration is justified.

 

Gotta let go of the anger. By way of his own actions he is returning to the land of irrelevance. Other leaders are taking charge. He is padding his account on his retirement tour. I don't blame him for that. What you are talking about is simply who he is and is his mo. He has some really good thoughts but enjoys yelling at walls more than trying to actually gain positive ground. It is an enormous personal flaw of his. It's the blatant sexists rhetoric he ocassionally let's out, lack of impulse control, and complete disregard for strength in numbers that I have a problem with. That said, I would take him over Manchin any day of the week.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 09:28 PM

94. Bernie is the future EOM

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Response to tiredtoo (Reply #94)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 09:37 PM

99. How? At nearly seventy five, how is he possibly the future?

 

I'm thirty five so, should I be counting on him to lead me into the future? For how long? Maybe, just maybe, he is more the nostalgic, rose colored past than the future. None of his ideas were fresh or new.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #99)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 09:47 PM

108. Bernie represents the future of the Democratic party

Following the same ol same ol will result in the same ol same ol results.

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Response to tiredtoo (Reply #108)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 12:46 AM

142. How?

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #99)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 09:48 PM

109. obviously the person is more important than the issues...

Last edited Fri Jan 20, 2017, 12:56 AM - Edit history (1)

time for me to reveal my caribbean heritage and let out a long steupsssssssssssssssssss (can't even)

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Response to JHan (Reply #109)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 12:45 AM

141. It's like he's Jesus

 

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 09:39 PM

100. here we go again

 

the circular firing squad. Ready, aim, FIRE!

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 09:47 PM

106. Petty and short-sighted post

Focus on the real enemy, please!

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 09:48 PM

110. Anger noted. There's blame to go around.

WE failed to come together as a party.
WE failed to transcend our candidate preferences for the sake of things greater.
WE failed to speak collectively and in unity to an economically stressed electorate.

And WE, as Democrats of many stripes beneath a big tent failed to coalesce around "Stronger Together."

WE failed to rally.
WE failed to compromise and heed the words of our departing President, "WE mustn't let the perfect be the enemy of the good."

WE failed.
WE bear the burden of the hellish consequence that awaits us.
WE must NOW overcome this rancor, dig in our heels, and resist.

If you have children or grandchildren...enough said.

WE will overcome.


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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 09:51 PM

113. Really, its all Bernies fault now?

 

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 09:57 PM

114. These vicious attacks on Bernie seem to come from an alternate universe!

To hear some in this thread he is worse than Trump. Its like they watched a different race than I did. I didn't like Hillary for many reasons, but I would never consider not voting for her vs. Trump. I get the impression that had he won the Primary they would have been voting for Jill Stein or even Trump. It does no good to have this Postmortem, only harm. No one's mind will be changed which can happen with other topics.

The only good thing tomorrow will be the end of this "Postmortem!" The only sad thing tomorrow for the Trump trolls will be the end of Postmortem. They don't get to see Democrats tearing each other apart

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 10:08 PM

118. "by not officially conceding graciously prior to the convention"

He most certainly did concede prior to the convention in a joint appearance with Clinton even.

Here's a story with video of their joint appearance:
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/13/us/politics/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton.html

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 10:11 PM

119. Actually, in 2008 she announced that she would be suspending her campaign less than 24 hours

after the final vote.

The concession speech came a few days later but people knew that she was exiting the race the next day.

Also, that was the first year that winning the pledged delegates was regarded as making you entitled to the nomination. Up until that point PDs were never treated as the equivalent of electoral votes. And any race that close would have gone to the Convention.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 10:24 PM

121. So Hillary couldn't handle any opposition whatsoever?

One candidate runs against her, one candidate, and she loses so it's HIS fault? Come on.

She's been preparing to run since Bill won the presidency and she loses?

It's simple - so many people dislike her that many of them voted for Trump even though they weren't exactly thrilled with him either.

Sanders, BTW is giving the GrOP'ers hell everyday but where is Hillary?

He's old and will be gone soon anyway. We need to find new blood for the battles ahead.

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Response to Ligyron (Reply #121)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 10:30 PM

123. Exactly!

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Response to Ligyron (Reply #121)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 02:29 AM

149. Excellent points.

 

Thank you!

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Response to Ligyron (Reply #121)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 08:01 AM

164. No one can handle being torn down consummately by anyone. It always takes down numbers and

... it didn't help dispel the evil meme's continued by the right.

I don't think his primary challenge helped at all...

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Response to boston bean (Original post)


Response to boston bean (Original post)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 10:31 PM

124. Yawn

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Response to boston bean (Original post)


Response to boston bean (Original post)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 10:46 PM

128. Ditto

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 10:47 PM

129. Unforgivable - I'd Never Follow Him

 

and his crew...

Will never forget the hate he and his surrogates inspired towards Hillary.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Thu Jan 19, 2017, 10:58 PM

132. I am angry at those progressives who refused to vote for Hillary in the general election.

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Response to still_one (Reply #132)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 01:55 AM

144. Thats their right though but they like those who voted for Trump will have to learn to

live with their decision and with the knowledge that they share in the blame for any damage Trump causes this country.

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #144)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 02:03 AM

146. Of corse it is their right, but that doesn't change my view about them

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 02:42 AM

152. Okay fine but I'll tell you what

 

If you think the direction Bernie speaks of and acts on is not valid or somehow inferior to the direction Hillary wanted to go then I think Democrats will be in for more defeats.

Forget the past.
The direction of this party needs to move away from being owned by big money special interests in my opinion.
I voted for her in the general but the Bernie direction, I think, is our future and not that of the ghosts of the DLC past.
We need to be a people's populist party grounded in the ideals of FDR.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 02:59 AM

153. I can understand that

And Trump was more than happy to exploit it. Part of what made people bitter was the zeal of his followers. Logic and reason were not always welcome. But sometimes it's better to move on.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 04:29 AM

154. Anger doesn't even begin to describe my contempt. The constant ridiculing of the only viable....

alternative to Trump, and all our democratic institutions was just beyond the pale. I don't think I can ever forgive that.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 06:26 AM

157. Strangely - I'm not

Hold tight - there is going to be a repudiation of Trump in November in NJ. Sanders approach this June during the primary. Hold tight.

Phil Murphy will be the next Governor of NJ.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 06:51 AM

158. Lol

This is helpful



Here's a Bernie bounce just for you



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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 08:38 AM

167. I work in NYC with many Bernie supporters

And I supported HRC. I don't know one of them that voted third party. They All voted for her.

Fact is you keep your anger. My support of HRC has now moved to Bernie and Warren. I'm sick of the establishment and when ten Democrat senators voted against cheaper drugs from Canada it has been almost the final straw.

I will follow Sanders lead from now on and will leave this party unless it moves towards the goals of occupy Wall Street instead of lip service.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 12:01 PM

177. I never trusted him, and never will. nt

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 12:04 PM

178. He's a meanie!

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 12:12 PM

179. I'm angry that HRC botched her campaign

 

She spent more money on advertising in Omaho, NE than in MI and WI. She was never going to win NE but she needed WI and MI to win the WH.

She demonstrated in 2016 the same logic flaw she showed in 2008 when she lost to Obama -- poor strategic planning.

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Response to Larkspur (Reply #179)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 12:53 PM

181. Here's the killer for me -- Bill Clinton, one of the finest political minds

of the past half-century, practically begged the campaign to spend some time in the upper Midwest, but what could he possibly know, right? Bill's like old 'n wrinkly 'n stuff. They had The Mookster and he had DATA!

Stupid, stupid move.

...in general, Bill Clinton’s viewpoint of fighting for the working class white voters was often dismissed with a hand wave by senior members of the team as a personal vendetta to win back the voters who elected him, from a talented but aging politician who simply refused to accept the new Democratic map. At a meeting ahead of the convention at which aides presented to both Clintons the “Stronger Together” framework for the general election, senior strategist Joel Benenson told the former president bluntly that the voters from West Virginia were never coming back to his party.


http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/hillary-clinton-aides-loss-blame-231215

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Fri Jan 20, 2017, 12:54 PM

182. I totally agree BB!

Bernie is one of the reasons we're not celebrating Madame President.

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