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[pbmus]

This message was self-deleted by its author (pbmus) on Sat Jan 14, 2017, 08:43 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[greytdemocrat]

1. No

[onenote]

2. Section 1 of the 20th amendment:

The terms of the President and the Vice President shall end at noon on the 20th day of January, and the terms of Senators and Representatives at noon on the 3d day of January, of the years in which such terms would have ended if this article had not been ratified; and the terms of their successors shall then begin.

[pbmus]

5. These are not ordinary times...we need some new laws..

Just for this monster...

Who has broken every rule...

[onenote]

6. There's a mechanism for that: amend the constitution

But "we" don't get to make up new laws.

[pbmus]

7. New laws are made every day...wtf

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

9. Constitutional amendments are not.

11,539 proposals to amend the Constitution have been introduced in Congress since 1789. 27 of them have actually been adopted.

[yardwork]

28. Do you seriously not understand how our system works?

Congress makes laws. Congress is currently under control of the Republican Party. They're not interested in postponing Trump's inauguration. Even if they wanted to change the Constitution about this, it would take years. Next week's inauguration will move forward as scheduled.

Seriously, this is the kind of magical thinking and lack of knowledge of how our laws work that led to Trump being elected. Elections have serious consequences. Your vote matters. It's the only chance you have to make your voice heard.

[FBaggins]

55. How can you not know?

If ten or more citizens petition the White House with a specific code... then it gets forwarded to the USSSC (United States Super Secret Court) which has the power to postpone changes in Presidential control by up to six to eight months while ordering a new election.

But you have to really REALLY want it.

[EL34x4]

34. Well, Obama and SCOTUS need to block the passage of time!

I'm tired of people saying it can't be done!

[onenote]

35. LOL!

[cilla4progress]

3. Desperate times

Call for desperate measures.

[Hoyt]

11. So next time a Democrat wins, GOPers can take same action? We need to nail Trump for what he

does in office. Some of this prior stuff might help down the road, but January 20 will come and go. I'll wake up the next day, monitor Trump's admin closely, and focus on 2018, 2020 at all levels of office.

[cilla4progress]

12. That excuse is used too often

And has gotten us nowhere. It is rational and we are dealing with irrational people.

[longship]

16. It's the fucking law of the land, my friend.

Sheesh!

[pbmus]

19. The Big Con does not care about laws...he will have broken dozens of laws

By the time he steps on that stage...

[longship]

20. That's why we have to abide by them. nt

[pbmus]

21. OMG....heads will roll...if party is more important than country

We are really screwed...

[longship]

22. That's right. We do not roll heads under our constitutional republic.

Let it stay that way.
What are some people thinking? That's right; they aren't.

[cilla4progress]

23. Laws can be changed.

And please don't swear at me. Thanks.

[longship]

47. Changing the US Constitution takes passing an amendment!

Which requires 2/3rds of the state legislatures once it is approved by the US Congress.

You need to read your fucking US Constitution to understand how things work under a fucking constitutional republic.

Some people think that some things are just laws. Then again, there's the fucking US Constitution, which has served us all fairly well in most times, but is nevertheless imperfect.

There is a reason why it is so God damned difficult to amend it. That's because we don't want any damned knee jerk asshole jerking (or collection of knee jerk assholes) our freedoms out from under us.

I put this as plainly as I could, in plain language.

The US Constitution! All citizens should fucking read it!

I am not swearing at you. I am just swearing because this is a passion to me and I find ignorance of such topics to be very unfortunate.

[dflprincess]

4. Apparently the founders didn't envision a situation where the president elect

was this corrupt. So they gave us no way to avoid this disaster.

I feel like I'm walking to the guillotine.

[JI7]

8. shit will never settle where Trump is Concerned

[tammywammy]

10. No

Trump will become president Friday. Unless he resigns and then Pence will become president.

The only way to remove Trump is impeachment.

[longship]

17. Or, via the 25th amendment.

In both cases we would get Pence.

[triron]

13. The POTUS can declare martial law

according to this

http://www.encyclopedia.com/social-sciences-and-law/law/law-divisions-and-codes/martial-law

[longship]

18. Well, wouldn't that be just Jim Dandy!?

Thrust the USA into a civil war.

What are some people thinking? That's right; they're not thinking.

[BlueCaliDem]

27. It's the ONLY option left to stop tRump, but it ain't gonna happen. eom

[onenote]

30. that article ignores the key passage from ex parte Milligan

"If, in foreign invasion or civil war, the courts are actually closed, and it is impossible to administer criminal justice according to law, then, on the theatre of active military operations, where war really prevails, there is a necessity to furnish a substitute for the civil authority, thus overthrown, to preserve the safety of the army and society; and as no power is left but the military, it is allowed to govern by martial rule until the laws can have their free course. As necessity creates the rule, so it limits its duration; for, if this government is continued after the courts are reinstated, it is a gross usurpation of power. Martial rule can never exist where the courts are open, and in the proper and unobstructed exercise of their jurisdiction. It is also confined to the locality of actual war."

[sarisataka]

37. Many are worried about

the number of Generals in the next administration but we want the military to take charge...

Note martial law does not negate the transfer of power. Lincoln still had to be re-elected in 1864 even with the country under martial law. President Obama would have to declare himself above the Constitution, i.e. a dictator, to remain in office.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

14. No. Of course, I suppose there could be serious rioting in the streets

and an attempt to overthrow the new President once he is sworn in, but I would never suggest anything like that.

[yardwork]

32. And it wouldn't result in any kind of immediate change.

[longship]

15. Read your damned constitution!

The date of the inauguration is codified in law there.

[cilla4progress]

24. Some people suffer from

A lack of imagination.

The US revolution, many civil rights protest actions, were all illegal at the time. . It shouldn't stop activism against this monster. The Constitution is a living document.

[onenote]

25. some people suffer from magical thinking

So are you saying that the inauguration should be blocked by illegal means? Or that the Constitution, as a "living document" should be interpreted to ignore specific provisions?

[cilla4progress]

26. Both and all

This is no longer a nation of laws. If it were, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

I grow impatient with the mindset that doesn't see this yet.

I am advocating for nonviolent revolution. Yes.

[onenote]

29. the way to have a nonviolent revolution is at the ballot box or through

the constitutional means for removing the president, etc etc.

There is no way to have a nonviolent revolution to override the constitution.

[ElementaryPenguin]

41. I believe she can... And the Supreme Court could step in and rule on it - even the same day.

Isn't that true? Trump is not the President. You can't impeach him yet - and you don't need to. If he committed a murder right now in broad daylight - he would not be sworn in as President on Jan. 20th (nor would he if he were found guilty of treason). I believe the evidence is there - and that Anthony Kennedy would rule against Trump - and the Supremes would rule 5-3 to convict.

Trump would ultimately be pardoned by President Hillary Clinton.

All sounds far-fetched - but is it not possible?

[SickOfTheOnePct]

42. No

It's not possible.

[onenote]

43. No. and No.

The Attorney General can't unilaterally "bring charges" -- there would have to be an indictment based on the presentation of evidence. And it would be impossible to present evidence of "treason" under the Constitutional standard and there is no crime called "high crimes". Bribery? Fine. Make a case under the federal bribery statute whatever th
at might say. Not going to waste time looking.

And no the Supreme Court can't "step in and rule on it." There is a process by which cases come to the Court. It does not have original jurisdiction except in limited circumstances.

And if he committed a murder right now in public he would still become president on January 20.He could be convicted of murder between now and January 20 and he'd still become president on January 20.

And even if all the things you suppose can happen could happen (and they can't) how does Hillary Clinton end up as President?

Oh wait -- she doesn't.

[onenote]

49. Try to follow the thread

My reply was to your post and a post that followed it that did mention Hillary

[ElementaryPenguin]

45. No. He wouldn't be sworn in had he committed murder.

That's more far-fetched than anything I'm suggesting - which, granted, is far-fetched enough.

[ElementaryPenguin]

48. Federal courts vacated an election result in Penn. in '95

And handed the victory in a tainted election to the opponent. This was upheld by the Supreme Court - so there is a legal precedent.

[yardwork]

31. Take a closer look at how change actually happened.

The American Revolution required a lot of violence and took years.

The Civil Rights movement required people accepting violence - vicious attacks on their bodies and lives, assassinations - and took years before Congress was forced to act.

Our current Republican-controlled Congress doesn't care if you take to the streets. They are ramming their own agenda through at lightning speed.

Yes, organize. Fight. But know that it will take years and it won't be easy at all and you might die. In the meantime, be sure to vote wisely. Democrats aren't perfect but we need to put the Republicans out of power.

[cilla4progress]

33. This

[triron]

46. Now it will be extremely difficult to do that

especially if Russians continue to hack elections for the authoritarian
and we continue to let it happen.

[bowens43]

36. no

[sarisataka]

38. What would postponement achieve

unless it is a four year postponement

[NCTraveler]

39. Who do you suggest be President during the postponement period? Nt

[First Speaker]

51. How about Biden...?

...an interim President, until we know whether or not our incoming "President" is a goddam traitor or not. As for the "constitutionality" of it--to coin a phrase, the Constitution is not a suicide pact. If we permit Trump to take the oath Friday, we, as a nation, are committing suicide. The Constitution--*all* of it--will be a dead letter by 2020. Better to bend the letter of it now, than lose the reality of it. And I don't want to hear any more "well, what if the Repubs do this to the next Dem President" arguments. I find it very hard to believe that these arguments are being made in good faith. The Repubs are a fascist party out to destroy liberal democracy. We are not. We do not elect Trumps. I know what the men of 1775, 1861, and 1941 would have done.

[NCTraveler]

52. I would fight against that. Nt

[triron]

53. Why?

[NCTraveler]

54. Blatantly undemocratic.

"an interim President, until we know whether or not our incoming "President" is a goddam traitor or not"

It's called a coup. Not that I'm against such things. At least frame it properly.

[mythology]

50. These posts are embarrassing. There is literally nothing in our constitution that

would allow this nonsense.

Please stop this. If you had bothered to do even the slightest research, you'd know the answer is no.