We were warned. We actually knew this could happen.

[MineralMan]

Many people on DU and elsewhere warned of the threat of Donald Trump becoming President. We knew about the Russian influence early in the general election campaign. We knew that if he won, he might drag enough Republicans into office on his coattails to give Republicans control of all three branches of federal government.

Warnings were everywhere. I know I posted plenty of them, and so did political thinkers far more knowledgeable than I am.

We did not all listen. We did not all think it could happen. Some people didn't like Hillary Clinton and chose to skip voting for President or voted for third party candidates. We lost. We lost in three states, specifically, where we should not have lost.

We were warned, but not enough Democrats showed up in some states to prevent Donald Trump from winning. Yes, Democratic voters were suppressed in some states, but enough people voted for third party candidates or did not vote for President to have made a difference in enough states.

We failed. I'm incredibly sad about that. I don't even know what to say, beyond that, really.

[rzemanfl]

1. I'm going to say Trump is fat. While I still can. n/t

[MFM008]

9. He is fat and ugly

And I respectfully request he
DROP DEAD.

[MineralMan]

10. Whatever. Say whatever you like.

You're playing a silly game, but I'm not joining in.

[rzemanfl]

41. That's okay. The poster above trumped me in the game sense anyway. n/t

[cwydro]

48. Uh, so?

Good lord.

That's the last of his negatives.

The man is a menace. Let's try and be adults.

[rzemanfl]

51. Mineral Man doesn't approve of body shaming. It goes back a while.

Cheeto Sporkhands is a menace. The operative words were "while I still can."

[bettyellen]

54. Liberals generally are not big on body shaming. Dislike seeing it here

As I feel like low mindless insults are the hallmark of those we are fighting. I'm better than stooping that low.
whats next? Making fun of the disabled? Trans? Women?
It's a slippery slope.

[rzemanfl]

55. We can sure get off on tangents here.

Drumpf is a greedy, ignorant, misogynist, sociopath, bigot, egotistical fascist and a Russian puppet. He is fat too.

Here is the link to the post that started this silliness-

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8304715

[duffyduff]

2. Democrats didn't fail. The blame rests fully on the Trump voters.

They live in an alternate universe.

This isn't the fault of the Democrats.

[MineralMan]

6. Clinton voters didn't fail us.

All votes not cast at all or not cast for Hillary Clinton were votes for Trump. Every one of them. We all knew the election was a binary choice. It always is. I'm not blaming Democrats. They voted for the Democratic candidate. I assume almost everyone on DU voted for Clinton. I'm not blaming anyone here who voted for her. I certainly did, and she won my state.

[LongtimeAZDem]

28. +1 (nt)

[murielm99]

31. I agree with you, MM.

Any vote not for Hillary was for trump. It is that simple.

God help us now. Many people, all over the world, will have no sympathy for us. We have behaved badly and greedily. They will be frightened, but they will tell us we got what we deserved.

[cwydro]

50. Actually MM, I saw several posts here where DUers said they would happily vote third party.

Or for Trump. Because they were in "safe blue states."

They were enormously proud of that stance.

I remember who they were. I wonder how they feel now.

[MineralMan]

56. Yes. I remember who they were, too

They gave aid and comfort to people in other states where the outcome wasn't so clear. Even in Minnesota, things ended up much closer than anyone expected. Like many other Democrats, I had to talk several people into voting for Hillary instead of Jill Stein.

We worked hard to get a win for Clinton here.

[cwydro]

57. I wonder if they know we remember them.

It still disgusts me.

At the time, I just didn't get that frame of mind. And now? I'm appalled.

Amazed that they are still here posting...

[Cosmocat]

36. Right

nm

[Exilednight]

3. We were also warned about nominating a candidate with so much baggage

that airline carriers smile when they see the extra baggage fees they're about to profit from.

But we didn't listen.

[duffyduff]

5. Not Clinton's fault and you know it.

Sanders would have lost bigly in a three-way matchup with Bloomberg and Trump.

[progressoid]

23. Why include Bloomberg?

[Tanuki]

38. Probably because Bloomberg said at one point that he would

enter the race if, and only if, Sanders was the Democratic nominee.

[AlexSFCA]

37. absolutely

Bloomberg would have launched his campaign if Sanders and Trump were to be the candidates. Trump would have likely won under that scenario. Trump's strategy was very clear so it is shame that Hillary's campaign did not counter that by agressively counter campaigning in the rust belt focusing on jobs only.

[Exilednight]

66. I never mentioned Sanders.

Hillary made two major mistakes in her campaign.

1. She failed to come up with a message to sell the American people. Yes, she had a plan, but she didn't have a three to five word message to sell it. In 2008 Obama had "Main Street, not Wall Street". In Bill's first run he had "it's the economy, stupid". What was Hillary's?

2. She couldn't turn around her negative press. In Bill's first run he was hounded with sexual relations issues, but he turned it around on Republicans. In Obama's first run he was called a secret Muslim terrorist sympathizer, and he made Republicans who did so look moronic.

[MineralMan]

7. Hillary Clinton was the Party's nominee. She won that nomination

fairly and honestly and by over 3 million votes. She also won the popular vote in November. It was not Hillary's fault. Please don't attempt to blame her.

[Exilednight]

39. It is her fault. She lacks the skills to get out from all the baggage she carries.

I freely admit that Bernie made strategy mistakes during the primary, and his loss is on him.

I'm also adult enough to admit that Hillary made several strategy mistakes and lost the GE, and that is 100% on her.

Bernie took it easy on her during the primary, and she still lost. Hillary threw the kitchen sink at Obama, and he managed to win.

Bill was impeached and his popularity went through the roof, but again he knew how to play the game of politics.


Hillary gets beat up by some embarassing emails and instead of digging herself out of a small hole, she digs it deeper and makes her own grave.

I don't know how many times I have to say this, but I'll keep repeating it until it sinks in on this board. Claiming a popular vote win is like claiming your team should be world champions because they have more fans, regardless of how badly they lose the game.

[metroins]

44. I agree with your post

[world wide wally]

49. Nice to accuse like the GOP has for 25 years, but please explain what "actual" baggage

you are referring to.
I never heard whatever it was that she is "actually" guilty of.

[Exilednight]

67. Baggage comes in all forms. It doesn't have to be something

that someone is guilty of, it only needs to stick to the point that is sews doubt into people's minds.

The whole private server thing was not a good idea, but there was nothing nefarious about it. On the flip side, there didn't have to be anything nefarious about, Republicans just needed to push it against someone who couldn't put it to bed and make the public understand that Republicans were playing politics. It was the perfect issue for them against a candidate who couldn't put it behind her.

[leftofcool]

4. Hillary tried to warn people. No one was listening.

[MineralMan]

8. Yes, she did. She was right.

[libtodeath]

11. We knew about russian hacking

[MineralMan]

13. Yes, we did, and well before the election.

All the more reason to turn out and vote for Hillary. We could have negated the Russian hacking simply by doing that. Sadly, we did not do that in enough numbers in some states. It's incredibly sad that we did not.

[libtodeath]

15. Or they would have just upped the vote count against us.

[MineralMan]

18. See, that only works up to a certain point.

At some point, enough votes make the difference. We just didn't get enough in a few states. Non-votes in the presidential race and every third party candidate's votes tell the story. You can see that in the vote counts, quite clearly, which is my point in this thread.

Not enough voters in enough states voted for Hillary Clinton to overcome the problem. There are always problems. That's why Democratic turnout and loyalty is so important. We have to overwhelm with our numbers in those swing states that decide presidential elections. We didn't do that. More's the pity.

DUers did vote for Hillary Clinton, I know. I'm not blaming DUers. But we're a tiny number of votes, spread across the nation. DU can't swing an election. It never could.

[libtodeath]

19. Not with a hack.

[Exilednight]

68. You can't hack a voting machine from a remote location.

You must actually be in the presence of the machine to actually hack it. You'd need to hack thousands of machines to make it work.

[AnotherMother4Peace]

12. Now faced with the realization that a hostile foreign government hijacked an American election

with its "all fronts" attacks. Hacks, unsecured voting machines, army of internet trolls, fake news, lies, smears, etc. etc - Russia's (a hostile Government's) rules of all's fair in war strategy. AND most IMPORTANT a WILLING Partner/Candidate in Trump......

[MineralMan]

14. Roughly 80,000 votes in three states would have made

the difference. We didn't get them, at least on the original count, and I don't put much faith in the recount, either. In order to win, we have to overcome many things, but enough votes can do that. We didn't get them. It's a damned shame, and I'm very fearful of the consequences of that failure.

[libtodeath]

16. Glad you can just shrug it off

people are going to suffer and die as a result of this act of war against us.

[MineralMan]

20. How am I "shrugging it off?"

I'm not at all. You're right. There will be dire consequences. Many of us will face such consequences, including me and you, perhaps. That's why I voted for Hillary and convinced others to do the same. Those others included several Stein voters who changed their vote, in part because I convinced them to.

In Minnesota, Hillary won our electoral votes. In a neighboring state, WI, she did not win. Every state counts, but I only live in one state. In that state, Hillary Clinton won.

[libtodeath]

22. We dont fight for recounts or a revote given the circumstances?

We just say ok cheato is president and we accept that?

[MineralMan]

24. There are recounts ongoing.

So far, it doesn't look like they will change the results, frankly. There is no way for a re-vote to take place in a presidential election in this country. There are no second elections. Given our Constitution, it's not even a possibility.

Recounts we have. But, under the rules of each state, they usually don't change the result, and there is insufficient time for there to be a thorough audit before the date of the inauguration and much less before the date of the Electoral College vote tallying.

So, no, we don't just say OK. But, I've heard no suggestions for another recourse that are feasible, legal, or constitutional.

You want to do something? If your state's electors are pledged to Trump, try to convince them that they have a responsibility not to let an egomaniac who is a stooge of the Russians become President. Your state. Electors are NOT going to listen to anyone who isn't from their state. That is the very best and probably the only way to keep Trump out of the White House. If your state went for Trump, communicate with your state's electors, your state's congressional delegation, your state's governor, and anyone else who might have influence on the electors.

If your state went for Hillary, then there's not much you can do in other states, I'm afraid. Electors are not going to pay any attention to people from other states.

[Missn-Hitch]

32. I am shrugging it off.

My empathy is quite diminished as a result of this election. Dems fighting to protect miners' pensions and healthcare? Geesh. What a waste of effing time. The miners voted for the orange menace because he digs coal. Next - they will be the ones defending the orange menace against his impending impeachment.

It's time for the consequences to manifest. So, yeah - I am shrugging it off.

I am 44 yo, no kids (by choice) and I sleep just fine.

[mtnsnake]

17. The warnings that you are talking about

should have been taken more seriously, that's for sure, now that we've all been shocked by the outcome. I certainly never thought a bum like Trump could ever stand an inkling of a chance of becoming president. I don't know of too many people who did, so whoever was warning us sure did see something that few others could see coming.

However, I'm not sure of the time frame you're talking about in regards to the warnings. Are you referring to warnings that took place long before Trump won the republican primary, later on in the primary, early in the general election, or later on in the general?

[MineralMan]

21. I'm only talking about the general election campaign.

I can't influence Republican primaries at all, so that's on Republicans. I can only influence general election results in a small portion of my own state, too. I did what I could. Others did what they could, and Hillary won in Minnesota. Elsewhere, my influence is zero.

[mtnsnake]

25. I ran into this one neo-con couple in my neck of the woods

who told me that they were certain beyond the shadow of a doubt that Trump was going to win the election. This was back in early September, and I pretty much just looked at them like "yeah, good luck with that."

None of my liberal friends thought Trump had a chance. Nor did I. Lesson learned, the hard way. Yes, in the future we really need to pay more attention to the warnings. I know I will be from now on.

[MineralMan]

26. I was also sure Clinton would win.

I was wrong, and posted that on November 9 right here. I was dead wrong. I could not imagine that people would not vote for a presidential candidate or would throw their vote away on a third party candidate. I was wrong about that, too. I'm not sure what I could have done about that. My sphere of influence is no larger than my own precinct, which went for Clinton with a 60% majority. I talked to my friends, associates, and others, as well, and managed to convince a few people who planned to vote for Stein to vote for Clinton instead. Had Bernie Sanders won the primary, I'd have worked to do the same thing for him.

But, that's as far as my influence goes.

[Missn-Hitch]

35. I thought he had a chance and I was nervous. My friend said, "No way".

Bill Maher issued warnings. Michael Moore issued warnings. And, I do believe the Clinton campaign showed signs of awareness as election day grew closer. Hell, my lady and I got into a fight over it. I kept saying, "he might just pull this off". She was devastated for a week, I had a patient break down in the exam chair the next day.

Time to head up to the mountains and sight my weapons. Start a campfire, read a book and sip some scotch.

[zipplewrath]

60. Nate Silver

He was lowering her chances of winning. By election day it was around 55%. And his explanation made some sense. When you have a 49% support level, there's not a lot of room for your opponent to "make that up". When you only have 44% level of support, there's an opportunity to be beat.

[Missn-Hitch]

65. Indeed. I was on 438 daily.

[HassleCat]

27. Two near certainties in every election

We always have trouble with turnout, and we always lose a fraction to third parties. There are several ways to fight back, but we're devoting a lot of time to, My way is the right way, and you suck."

[ananda]

29. We didn't fail because we were warned.

We failed because we didn't fight for the ideals we hold dear,
starting with Florida 2000.

We allowed the GOP to take away fairness in media, regulations
on campaign financing, the Voting Rights Act, many people's
right to vote, and the ability to get recounts when needed.

We simply didn't fight by organizing and not giving up.

Occupy was our last best hope; and they gave up.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

30. I voted the earliest that I've ever voted in a general election.

Mostly because Trump scares the crap out of me and Hillary was a FAR better candidate compared to him.

I was an idiot for "licking my chops" over Trump winning the GOP nomination a few months ago. In my mind, he was the worst GOP candidate ever and neither Hillary nor Bernie could possibly lose to him.

The polls leading up to the election, even after the debates, shook me. I was still confident in the days before the election that she'd win the electoral college, but I couldn't believe it was even close.

[ancianita]

33. There are Cassandras of the party. Don't call them paranoid. Heed them. Help build the evidence.

Even when evidence doesn't win allies ... Win first. Hearts and minds come around later.

[Gore1FL]

34. No one wanted to listen to the warnings.

DU was too busy celebrating the upcoming victory dismissing the need for party unity to listen.

[AlexSFCA]

40. we all saw it coming

the fact of the matter that voters in rust bet states did not care about it, they voted for Trump in spite of all the negativity. And they cared about their own communities much more than the country. For all I know, Russia could be partially financing Trump's campain and that would still not make any difference.

Russia had a huge stake in this election. There is a huge propability that under Trump, economic sanctions against Russia will be lifted and NATO fundamentally weakened. Trump is positioning Russia as a critical ally in the fight against terrorism - we are witnessing a colossal paradigm shift in the US foreign policy. Trump doesn't care about Syria, he probably feels we'd be better off carpet bombing the entire region or let Russia do it so we feel 'clean'.

[tom_kelly]

42. I was talked down to by a few

"prominent" DU posters when I tried to get a message across that FL was shaky. To be more specific, DUer's began to post jokes about redknecks with lots of cars in their yards in FL as a way to minimize my message. It really made me mad.

[Initech]

43. I keep thinking of the Yoda metaphor.

Last edited Sun Dec 11, 2016, 04:47 PM - Edit history (1)

"Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering."

Fear = George W Bush administration, Iraq War, America post 9/11
Anger = the GOP under Obama
Hate = the rise of the alt right and election of Donald Trump
Suffering = What comes after Trump

With the election of Donald Trump, it comes full circle. The Deplorable have fully begun to embrace the dark side. What comes after suffering?

[dhol82]

45. Armageddon

[uponit7771]

58. The force? fills after the vacuum of suffering

[LisaL]

46. And?

What were supposed we have done about the warnings? Certainly some people here were way over confident, but what difference did it make in the end? I certainly believed there was a chance Trump could win.

[liquid diamond]

47. You can't hide from yourself.

We know who we are. Whether you voted for Hillary, a third party candidate, nobody, or you sat out. You know what you did, and there is no denying that. At least I know regardless of how bad things get in the next four years, I will be able to look at myself in the mirror. My hands will have no blood on them.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

52. There were also LOTS of warnings here after the Comey bullshit stunt.

There were many "doom and gloom" threads on DU right after it happened.

I'll readily admit that I didn't think it would impact the election too much, and I give kudos to the people with a better feel for the American idiocracy.

[UCmeNdc]

63. I was one of the DUers that posted about the Danger of Comey's statement

I know that perception of a situation is key to the average American. Truth to them does not matter. What they perceive as truth is what matters. Hence, FOX news is truth. It could be the biggest lie in the world but Americans will not force the news giver to actually provide facts that are verifiable by outside credible sources, they just perceive FOX tells the truth so it must be true.

They had already made Hillary into a certain perceived person, then Comey added the proof. Both were lies about Hillary. But remember truth doesn't matter.

Now I am telling you that the Russians helped Trump win. They are behind Wikileak's information. Roger Stone coordinated with Wikileaks and the Russians on how and when to release the information. That is how the press knew so quickly where to look.

Get Donald Trump and Roger Stone into an official CIA, FBI investigation put them under oath and on record. If they lie they go to jail.

[J_William_Ryan]

53. No, its not Clintons fault.

The mistake was to not realize how unpopular Clinton was in certain key states.

The mistake was to not realize that for a significant number of voters Clinton was more unpopular than Trump, however difficult that might be to believe.

And the mistake was to lose sight of the fact that voters are capricious and subjective when it comes to voting for president – the ‘emails,’ Comey, and a dash of misogyny contributed to Clinton’s loss.

[Hekate]

59. KnR

[cwydro]

61. Well. you also posted that the polls were not giving Hillary the actual count.

You suggested she was three points higher than the polls showed. I can find the thread if you'd like.

You thought she had it in the bag. I don't think that was a good thing to suggest.

Just sayin.

[ucrdem]

62. Actually, we DID listen. And we said we can't afford to waste time on a corrosive primary.

So we wasted 18 months on a primary so toxic it's still flaming away like the SS Hindenburg.

We said so, too. We said it over and over. So who wasn't listening?

[aikoaiko]

64. Right 'cause not challenging HRC in the primary would have won over the 40% of Dem primary voters

who didn't prefer her to be the Democratic nominee.

That "corrosive primary" may have helped keep more of the discouraged involved and voting for HRC in the GE than not.