This is what the Dems need to be doing - Sanders: use defense contracts as leverage for Carrier jobs

[realmirage]

You see, we can fight for social justice AND fight for the blue collar working class.. If we had done that, a recount wouldn't be necessary

U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders turned up the pressure on President-elect Donald Trump on Saturday about his pledge to try to stop an Indiana air conditioner manufacturer from moving 1,400 jobs to Mexico.

Both Sanders, who challenged Hillary Clinton for the Democratic nomination, and Trump seized on an announcement earlier this year by United Technologies Corp's Carrier division that it would shift production to Mexico as an example of how trade deals hurt U.S. workers.

Sanders on Saturday warned "it is not good enough to save some of these jobs" and said Trump should use as leverage United Technologies' defense contracts, Export-Import Bank financing, and tax breaks.

"I call on Mr. Trump to make it clear to the CEO of United Technologies that if his firm wants to receive another defense contract from the taxpayers of this country, it must not move these plants to Mexico," the senator from Vermont said in a statement.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-sanders-idUSKBN13L0YU

[JHan]

1. Bernie is giving me a headache with this. ( I expect to get raked over the coals for saying this but

What Bernie proposes is sexy sounding, it will resonate, and it will be disastrous.

We keep addressing the symptoms rather than the causes. If this ever would become law, expect more business flight.

[GP6971]

2. Not going to happen

That would be discrimination as they are different business units. Also, it isn't illegal for a company to move operations off shore. I'm not saying I like it and I think it's wrong, but UT would have every right to sue the US government.

[realmirage]

5. Your knee jerk reaction against any plan that could put Sanders strategy into action

I think is a symbol of why the Democratic Party is sinking fast.

[GP6971]

7. By no means knee jerk

I deal with Federal Procurement and countless laws and regulations would have to be changed. It's just reality.

[realmirage]

8. Are there no ways at all? THINK

I guess you know government better than Bernie Sanders? I guess he's just making up fantasies and there are NO ways to do it? I wonder, if we actually took a second to ponder it, it would probably require caring just a little about the rust belt, which just handed us a giant defeat...

[GP6971]

15. Of course there are ways

but it would require legislation which the repugs wouldn't even consider seeing that;

proposed legislation is from the democratic side. Automatic NO
repugs don't want to damage their relationship with the MIC. Too lucrative to give up

And finally jobs. Why is the trouble plagued F35 program still going strong? Because Lockheed Martin spread out their work and subcontractor's work in multiple states (I think about 35-40) resulting in representatives voting to keep the project to protect the jobs.

Two key things are needed....pass new legislation and severely restrict lobbying.

And no I don't know the POLITCAL aspects of government contracting better than BS. But I do know the nuts and bolts of working with government contracts.

[realmirage]

16. The OP was about Sanders pushing Trump to

make good on his promise, so the push would be coming from Trump's base. And in the meantime the Democrats would look like they give a shit by supporting this strategy publicly. This is how we begin to win back the image of the party of the working class.

[JHan]

17. So Bernie is trolling?

[GP6971]

25. I understood the purpose of the OP

I just responded with a dose of reality.

[tammywammy]

28. Speaking of F-35

United Technologies owns Pratt & Whitney. Pratt & Whitney makes the engine for the F-35.

[GP6971]

29. That's true

I forgot about that

[realmirage]

3. The 2 responses in this thread are good examples of what's wrong with the mindset

of the Democratic Party. The knee jerk reactions against any attempt to fight for the working class is what earns us that "elitist" label we hate so much

[JHan]

18. you could have engaged me under my post... it's still there..

[bettyellen]

4. I'm missing the part about social justice? I'm pretty sure this would require new legislation not

An order from the president. Is this his big critique of Trump this week? Wow.

[realmirage]

6. The social justice aspect was the DNCs entire message, what's lacking

is a will to fight for the working class in the rust belt as well, which just flipped red and kicked what little ass we had left in government.

By the way in another interview just today Sanders stood up for social justice and blue collar jobs in the same breath. It's in the Sanders section. That's what the Democratic Party needs to get back to.

[bettyellen]

9. "Entire message" -I hope you're not serious?

Not true.

[realmirage]

10. It was the majority of it.

There was a little talk about raising the minimum wage a tad, and sort of reforming wall street a tad... but that doesn't solve the immediate problems of the vanishing working class in the rust belt. Or didn't we just hear them speak loud and clear to us on Nov 8?

[bettyellen]

23. "A tad".... as well as programs to bring new jobs for clean energy and infracstructure....

But just a tad, not big jumbo lies like Donald. Have heard she should have lied before too. hmmmmmm.

[JHan]

31. Bernie's solutions would not have solved the problem you cite, which are problems.. but

I don't believe any politician should lie to people or give them false hope.

That is cruel.

That is inhumane.

[Arazi]

11. The hatred of Bernie here means your important OP is DOA

Good luck

[realmirage]

12. I'm trying to help people want to figure out how to win elections

[Arazi]

13. It's becoming more evident that party purity is more important

than winning elections.

Fall in line or be purged

[JHan]

21. I regularly get challenged for my take on Bernie's positions..

I have never attacked the man personally though. These days , if you don't fall in line with everything he says you're deemed to be "the problem", "the reason we lost" or some other thing..while the person accusing you never really addresses the points you raised.

[DemonGoddess]

14. here we go again

He talks big, but you know, he really doesn't SEE or know how to implement any of this. Or have you forgotten the NYDN interview?

[JHan]

19. If you don't lie to people you don't win.. If you don't offer false promises.. you don't win..

Or something like that..

[DemonGoddess]

20. apparently

[DanTex]

22. Wrong. This is a form of corruption and protectionism.

It is inappropriate for the president to threaten an individual company with retribution like this. We are supposed to be a nation of laws. Building air conditioners has nothing to do with national security, defense contracts should have nothing to do with their decision.

We're talking about 1400 jobs here, a drop in the bucket. Direct intervention like this is never going to be a solution to the loss of industrial jobs, which is due to automation and not trade. It makes for good optics, but doesn't solve anything. It's unfortunate that Bernie is giving in to Trumpism on this.

[JHan]

24. People will lap it up though...

It sounds sexy and people will lap it up, SMH.

[bettyellen]

26. Yeah it's an empty gesture- - PR stunt giving voters false hope .

[marybourg]

27. And do we know if there are other

heating plant or air conditioning manufacturers that are building units in the U.S. who are capable of supplying the types of units needed for government installations?

There is no current law that would allow us to exclude Carrier from bidding on gov't contracts on the basis of manufacturing in Mexico. And we cannot pass a law that would exclude only Carrier. And if we excluded all those manufacturing abroad to some degree, do we know that there actually is a U.S.-only HVAC equipment manufacturer? I suspect there isn't. Or are gov't installations going to do without heating and air conditioning plants.

Macho talk gets votes, apparently, but it doesn't keep the lights on.

[jmowreader]

30. United Technologies is the only US-based maker of elevators and escalators

If the feds construct a building that's more than one story high, Buy American rules dictate shopping at United Technologies' Otis Division.

[SaschaHM]

32. This just sounds scary, murky, and possibly illegal.

I don't think the laws, as they exist, allow the president to basically threaten a company with the loss of federal benefits for doing something legal and I don't think the republicans are going to make it so. This makes the president look like a mafia don leveraging benefits worth millions/billions for a political favor and I'm sure there are safeguards/checks and balances to prevent just this. What's next, Trump calling on corporations expecting legally guaranteed tax breaks to pad his job creation numbers or face the consequences? This is the type of stuff that we should be ready to impeach Trump for, not cheering him on to do.