Those who consider themselves the true left(pure) want to work with Trump?

[Demsrule86]

Personally, I consider myself left. I believe in single payer, income equality, civil rights,student loan reform , no more wars etc. However, I supported Hillary Clinton and am a hardcore Democrat.I vote for Democrats every election. I am boots on the ground. The Democratic Party has provided us with real progressive accomplishments. Those who want to purge Hillary supporters as third way or DLC... whatever. They have never won anything. In fact, there have been massive losses (McGovern) and spoiled elections (2000,2004 and 2016). I don't understand why such folks always fight Democrats but never Republicans. The Republican Party is the enemy, not the Democrat Party. Fight them with everything you have. Our children and grandchildren are counting on us. There can be no cooperation with true evil.

[Tom Rinaldo]

1. Speaking only for myself

Were I in Congress I would vote for a bill if it was introduced by the Trump administration that would raise the minimum wage. People die every day because they don't have enough money to live on. No doubt I would not consider it adequate, but clearly the current minimum wage isn't either. I would not do so however as part of some negotiated trade off that let Trump damage the country in some other way.

[Demsrule86]

2. The bill will come with serious strings...we won't get it without giving

up something big...Now if we go along then they use it to attack us in 18 ( you can bet the strings will be undemocratic) and beyond. If we don't go along with it then they say we are against raising the minimum wage in 18 and beyond. There is no good to be found working with Trump...and honestly any who do are throwing the LGBTQ, women, minorities, Muslims and the undocumented under the bus. We need to stand firm and block everything he does...now if by some miracle he sends a clean bill which will never happen then vote for it...but no negotiation and no surrender to the evil that is Trump. Trump is not a 'normal' president or Republican. He has surrounded himself with people as evil as he is...white Supremacists and other truly horrible people...you can not work with such evil as the Germans learned the hard way. This is about morality and who we are. Do not legitimize Trump.

[Tom Rinaldo]

3. But do you agree with the principle

I already agreed with you about not accepting strings and I too expect there to be strings. But it is not inconceivable that Trump might under some circumstances feel like his image needed polishing with some constituency, or he needed to brush up his creds with some Republican moderates, or whatever; and as a result he could offer up some economic crumb like modesty raising the minimum wage without inking that to an evil. Would you still vote against that bill or urge other Democrats to kill it?

[Demsrule86]

4. No, not really

I don't think you can work with Trump without condoning his bigotry. And Ryan will never allow what you describe to happen. The question is should we collude with evil...sort of a train runs on time argument. I say no. Do we accept crumbs with strings or fight him? I would say given what happened the last eight years...fighting makes more sense and makes it more likely we will take back the government and literally save this country.

[Tom Rinaldo]

5. I think you mostly repeated your assertion about what Trump is capable of doing

If you are right that "Ryan would never allow it", for example, then the discussion is moot. Of course I agree that we can't, for example, accept a trade off such as cutting funding for Planned Parenthood in return for raising the minimum wage.

We disagree about what moves it is possible Trump might make, although we agree on what moves Trump is likely to make. I'll say this though. If Trump ever became convinced that Democrats would kill a clean bill to raise the minimum wage as part of a wall of total opposition to him - he would propose such legislation in a nanosecond. It would frame the Democrats perfectly for him for his purposes. His game plan is to drive a wedge between white working Americans concerned about economic survival and the Democratic Party. Nothing reinforces an image of out of touch economic elitism more than opposing what would be presented as basic economic relief to those who needed it most for what would then be spun as purely partisan maneuvering.

[Demsrule86]

6. You miss the point. First of all I think you have a snowball's chance in hell of getting

a clean bill. Secondly by negotiating any bill or anything with Trump...you legitimize him...we shouldn't do that.

[Tom Rinaldo]

7. I didn't miss your point. We are both circling

We agreed on our stance toward unclean bills. We agreed on likelihoods. We disagreed on what is conceivable. And it seems we disagree on what Democrats should do if, however unlikely, a clean bill raising the minimum wage were offered by Trump.

[Demsrule86]

8. It is simple ...don't work with Trump...he will use it against us.

Every effort must be made to take back the Senate in 2018. He won't give us a clean bill watch.