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Thu Nov 17, 2016, 04:38 PM

 

Breaking News - Sanders now willing to work with TRUMP to raise the min. wage to 10.00 dollars

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/17/politics/bernie-sanders-donald-trump-allies/index.html

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Reply Breaking News - Sanders now willing to work with TRUMP to raise the min. wage to 10.00 dollars (Original post)
otohara Nov 2016 OP
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Response to otohara (Original post)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 04:40 PM

1. This is the kind of decision we will have to make.

 

Do we strive to get a few little crumbs, since the crumbs would feed a few people? Or do we forget about the crumbs and focus elsewhere? There is no correct answer, by the way.

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Response to HassleCat (Reply #1)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 10:13 PM

66. We don't work with them period.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #66)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 11:13 PM

76. It's just as wrong for Dems to refuse to work with Pubs as it was for them to refuse

to work with us. THAT's the main reason congress has such a low rating. We have all wanting an raise in the m minimum wage but the Pubs refused to even consider it. I hate the idea that we are going to have a President Con, but I'm siding with Chuck Schumer on this. If there are things we can agree on, we're going to work with the Pubs to get things done. If they try to pass things we believer would hurt the American people, we'll fight them all the way. To maintain the do nothing attitude of the Pubs for the last 8 years, it's the American people.

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Response to napi21 (Reply #76)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 11:53 PM

83. And the establishment of stupid political capital line too?

 

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Response to napi21 (Reply #76)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 08:35 AM

102. We have a system now where only GOP types are allowed to govern.

They even stole one of our SCOTUS picks...that has to stop. Do not work with the GOP period. The GOP must be so obstructed that they never do what they did during Obama's administration again. President Clinton 'worked' with the GOP after 94. And I have heard that criticized over and over. What is it about us that we feel the need to work with these snakes...our only goal should be victory in the midterm and we need to make the GOP look very bad and give them no vote on issues like Social Security or Medicare...no compromise. If we work with them...they all do it will be the cry of the GOP operatives.

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Response to napi21 (Reply #76)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 10:50 AM

136. I don't care about congressional ratings.

This is not about wrong or right either...it is about supporting Trump and a party that wants to do truly evil stuff...giving them legitimacy. It should not happen...we should follow their example and stand strong and fight them every step of the way. No one will vote for a weak Democratic party. The GOP elected demanded that Obama work with them on social security. When he tried they ran ads in 10 saying he cut social security and never worked with him anyway. The GOP spent eight years stopping Obama surely we can manage two years without caving. Don't offer any more concessions Bernie or any Democrat.

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Response to napi21 (Reply #76)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 11:34 AM

165. There's NO reason to make the gov't appear to be functional under GOP control. This...

... will just reinforce the myth that ONLY the GOP can make Washington work.

NO! Block them at every turn. Give them NOTHING!

The suffering that's to come is already going to happen. Why make it last LONGER?

Let the GOP squeal like stuck pigs when the Dems block everything.

Fuck them!

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #165)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 12:45 PM

180. I uunderdstand that but I don't want another 4 years of doing absolutelyj NOTHING either.

I want Schumer toobeat the Pubs like Te




I want Schumer to9 beat the hell out of the Pubs like Teddy Kennedy did when they try to push their greedy, all for the rich ideas forward, I want him to smash them like a bug, but if we can get SOMETHING done for the good of the Country they should do that too.

















d

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Response to napi21 (Reply #180)

Sun Nov 20, 2016, 03:38 PM

302. It's all about optics. If min wage is raised under a Repub president, that's how people will see it.

That's a BAD message to send - bad for the Democratic Party.

NO concessions. NO compromising. Turn Mitch McConnell's oath against him in these 2 to 4 years.

Obstruct! Obstruct! Obstruct!

Hey, it worked for Republicans! They've all but eviscerated us across the country. Apparently, this is what the American people want. I say, give it to them.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #165)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 04:41 PM

201. Wrong. No point screwing min wage workers over principle

That is what rethugs do. Not progressives.

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Response to hueymahl (Reply #201)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 04:50 PM

206. And that's how they win. Why give them the advantage? Why be lap dogs?

Isn't fighting them at every turn and opposing their every move the same type of take-a-stand philosophy as the "Never Hillary" people had? You know, the one that was so admired and defended around here?

Why is it okay to write-in Bernie or to be "Never Hillary" and have it defended as being a "voter with principles" ... yet when this philosophy ends up putting the GOOP in power, why now is standing firm against giving the GOP any thing to claim as their own is suddenly considered to be "unprogressive" and something to be frowned upon or scolded.

Why is one okay, but the other not? Especially odd when you consider that when 'one' CREATED the 'other' in the first place.

You guys are hard to figure out sometime. Black is white and up is down. Good is bad and strong is weak.

Make up your minds already.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #206)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 04:56 PM

207. Who are the "you guys" you keep referring to?

I voted for, campaigned for and donated to HRC. I entered the election night with both a feeling of hope and a hidden feeling of dread. She would have made a fantastic, incredible president.

But she was CRAP as a candidate.

So, quit trying to lump me in with some nefarious group that somehow caused her to lose.

We need progressive policies passed. If Trump will pass a progressive policy, we should support that. Just as we should fight against every possible non-progressive policy we can. Otherwise, we are harming real people in an attempt at "justice" or "payback" or some other self-centered bull shit.

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Response to hueymahl (Reply #207)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 05:16 PM

210. So, sometimes it's okay to stand on principle, and sometimes it's not.

She was a wonderful candidate. She was brilliant and inspiring. You guys need to stop trying to rewrite history.

Who are the "you guys" you keep referring to?
I think you're smart enough to know the answer to that. And I'm smart enough to know that I don't need to spell it out and spoon-feed it to you.

We need to give Trump and his cronies NO VICTORIES, of ANY KIND. Nothing they can point to as any sort of "accomplishment" ... nothing they can use as leverage in getting something passed that causes exponentially more HARM than the little good that may come about from a "progressive policy".

FREEZE THEM IN THEIR TRACKS! They get NOTHING! Any success will be used in future elections. They'll gleefully declare "see? we Republicans can get things done!" as justification for electing MORE Republicans and KEEPING them in power.

But what it really means is that a spineless and compliant House and Senate just sat on their thumbs... you want the Democrats to become "Rick Grimes" to Trump's "Negan".

No, this isn't "self-centered" bull shit. This is long-term thinking.

You guys should know that, right? Y'all know what that's all about.. I mean you should. And if you really don't, I'll be surprised beyond belief.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #210)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 05:27 PM

211. Well, you guys have it all wrong

I believe in not condemning millions of low wage families to four years of suffering. I believe in showing how progressive policies make us better. I believe in a thousand incremental improvements are better than standing on principal and failing, again and again and again.

You guys apparently believe in vengeance over compassion, principle over progression, power over people.

We could not hold more different views and still both be liberals.

Very interesting. Us vs. them. Even when we are on the same side.

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Response to hueymahl (Reply #211)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 05:37 PM

212. But apparently you DO believe in giving the GOP a present of being FULLY in charge...

... for the next 8-12 years.

Why have a party at all if we're just going to let them walk all over us?

You guys apparently believe in vengeance over compassion, principle over progression, power over people.
I believe that short term gains at the expense of long term losses and setbacks is a difficult decision to make. Some people make the easy choices because they "seem" logical and they get the "feel good tingle" right away. Others are more pragmatic.

You can be a timid, broken, frightened and kowtowing Rick Grimes if you want. I'm gonna be Carol or Michonne and encourage everyone I know to be the same. We're screwed either way.

We could not hold more different views and still both be liberals.
So now you're calling me a conservative? Nice! So cleverly worded that no peer review would ever hold that to count, but I understand exactly what you're saying and how you're trying to insult me.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #212)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 05:47 PM

215. I wish you would stop attacking me and listen to what I am saying

I am not calling you a conservative, not even close. I am suggesting that the scorched earth approach you are advocating is dead wrong.

Our positions, liberal, progressive positions, need to be advocated with a vengeance. But if we can advance our positions in any meaningful way, that is good for the liberal cause, never bad for it.

I am attacking the DNC and its leadership. They need to do some serious soul searching. Blaming Comey, the weather, the moon, Brietbart, etc. does not do anything.

To be clear, I am not trying to insult you. But I am trying to change your mind and your point of view.

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Response to hueymahl (Reply #211)

Sat Nov 19, 2016, 03:52 PM

289. Tnhose who didn't vote for Clinton did that.

And working with the Orange Hilter who will do nothing to help anyone is a bad idea...fight him at every turn...he picked a cabinet we simply can not work with.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #210)

Mon Nov 21, 2016, 04:33 PM

316. There is no "you guys". We're all on the same side here.

 

And there is no large group of voters that will switch to us if only the left is kicked out again like it was in the Nineties.

Agreed that Trump should get no victories. It's the right wing of the party you'll have to persuade on that, though-the wing that gave Dubya everything he wanted from 2001 to 2007.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #206)

Sat Nov 19, 2016, 12:44 AM

260. It is very strange to me...they refused to

back moderate Hillary (called her a corporatist and a liar), yet they support a guy who is appointing an unrepentant segregationist who was too racist for even Reagan as AG and a nut case for NSA...I don't get it.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #260)

Sat Nov 19, 2016, 07:22 AM

273. They're not thinking clearly. They're blindly following Bernie's lead. They are guilty of ...

... "normalizing" the GOP by submitting to their obstructionists tactics.

It's disgusting.

PS: Any $10 "minimum wage" bill that has GOP hands on it will certainly be tied to other concessions... it won't be a CLEAN bill. The wage amount will be conditional, limited to certain jobs or certain regions, it will have "trigger" events or "trigger" dates, and it will phased-in and ramped-up over the course of ten years.

What Bernie supporters imagine happening is pure fantasy.

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #273)

Sat Nov 19, 2016, 03:53 PM

290. Bernie has a fan club for whatever he proposes no mater what.

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Response to hueymahl (Reply #201)

Sat Nov 19, 2016, 12:03 AM

244. Sounds like you agree that the only way government will be allowed to work is if the GOP is in

control

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #165)

Sun Nov 20, 2016, 03:23 PM

301. So we should obstruct, even at the expense of the American people?

I thought that's what Republicans did.

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Response to Glassunion (Reply #301)

Sun Nov 20, 2016, 03:41 PM

303. Thanks to Obama, we can hold out another 2 or 4 years. But we MUST take a stand now

and the last thing we need to do is give the appearance that shit gets done under a Repub Pres and Repub-controlled Congress.

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Response to BlueCaliDem (Reply #303)

Sun Nov 20, 2016, 04:20 PM

304. So we should obstruct regardless of those it helps or hurts?

No... the Republicans would bite their own nose to spite their face.

If there is a bill up, and it does good for America, I expect my Rep to vote for it. If it does harm, they should fight tooth and nail.

Obstructing for the sake of obstruction is bullshit IMO. If there is a bill to bring up the minimum wage, I expect my Rep to vote for it. Otherwise you may as well find a hard working family, who are below the poverty line in spite of working full time, knock on their door and yell "Fuck you for the next four years, we'll be back when election outcomes may work in your favor."

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Response to Glassunion (Reply #304)

Mon Nov 21, 2016, 11:55 AM

314. Yes. This is an unusual presumptive PEOTUS, therefore nothing should be business as usual.

Republicans have NOT paid a price even though their obstructionism hasn't helped a single soul. In fact, they've been rewarded in a year when WE should've gained more seats in the Senate and kept the White House.

This is war. You don't bring a daisy to a gunfight with the credo, "Can't we all just try to get along? Please?"

And it's not obstructing for the sake of obstruction. It's obstructing for the survival of the Democratic Party for 2018. The American people don't reward weak-spined people even when they ultimately benefit from it. This past election made that very clear.

For all the good President Obama has worked so hard for, people (who weren't disenfranchised) cast their vote for a Republican blowhard and the same Republicans they SAID they were tired of. Instead, the blamed President Obama for all the ills that are a direct result of unprecedented Republican obstructionism. NO BLAME went to Republicans. This is how people see our Gov't, as uninformed as they are.

So we return the favor or *Trump will get the credit and that would be a death knell for the Democratic Party in 2018 and 2020.

No more business as usual. Fuck that. And you know what? I also HOPE Lyin'Ryan successfully gets his bills through to privatize Social Security and voucherize Medicare without Dem interference. Elections have consequences and it's high time those idiots who constantly vote against their financial interests are made to understand that.

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Response to napi21 (Reply #76)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 04:49 PM

205. Disagree. Lesson of GOP obstruction and lies is that it works. They get what they want.

We give them NOTHING. Nothing, and nothing is far far better than anything the GOP will do.

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Response to napi21 (Reply #76)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 06:14 PM

230. Not any more. Now it's a long game. n/t


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Response to napi21 (Reply #76)

Sat Nov 19, 2016, 12:01 AM

243. The GOP has proven to the American people that political obstruction based on principle is a noble

cause and position to hold.
Democrats need to obstruct everything and explain why as they do it.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #66)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 10:27 AM

130. The corporate wing of the party goes bipartisan--just on all the wrong issues

starting wars, trade deals, Wall Street bailouts.

Bernie's statement after the election was exactly right: on issues when you want to pass progressive policy, we will work with you.

On issues where you want to do the opposite, we will fight you.

That should have been the Democratic position for decades.

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Response to yurbud (Reply #130)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 10:44 AM

133. It was exactly wrong. our job is to stop the GOP from

unleashing hell on earth by winning the midterms...you legitimize Trump by working with him...the GOP did nothing to work with Obama...they need to get the same treatment, or we are weak and foolish.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #133)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 10:56 AM

144. "...you legitimize Trump by working with him..."

 

And the democrats are all lining up to do that very thing already!

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #133)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 11:23 AM

159. While I do not agree with that, I would be impressed to see the Democrats do it.

They have had trouble staying on the same page even when it hurt Obama's foreign and domestic policy initiatives, or even Hillary's election chances, like Chuck Schumer saying they could do a corporate tax cut after the election just two weeks before, which minimized the difference between the two parties, which doesn't exactly help people get excited about voting for Democrats.

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Response to yurbud (Reply #130)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 04:47 PM

204. Thank you. A voice of reason among those driven insane by losing to the orange one.

The DNC leadership got us in this mess. We need new leadership, asap. True democrats should be emulating Bernie, not disparaging him.

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Response to hueymahl (Reply #204)

Mon Nov 21, 2016, 11:42 AM

312. it looks like they are taking steps in that direction--the question is whether symbolism will be

followed by action.

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Response to yurbud (Reply #130)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 06:11 PM

229. Do not work with them...no surrender...no no and more no.

No we never work with them...it would like working with Hitler. Bernie needs to stop now.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #229)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 07:22 PM

237. consider the odds of Trump & GOP making ANY

Progressive proposals.

Their minimum wage proposal is to eliminate it.

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Response to yurbud (Reply #130)

Sat Nov 19, 2016, 03:54 PM

291. Did you know that Bush threatened to declare martial law if the Dems did not pass Tarp?

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #291)

Mon Nov 21, 2016, 11:41 AM

311. Do you have a link for that? Also, how did that prevent Obama from prosecuting Wall St?

or modifying the terms of the second half of TARP?

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #66)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 10:54 AM

139. 100%!!!!

 

We work with those CS the same way they worked with President Obama the last eight years!!!

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Response to workinclasszero (Reply #139)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 06:09 PM

228. Exactly...only we succeed in making Trump a one term president...and

if we get the Senate back no judges for them...we will let the voters decide.

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Response to HassleCat (Reply #1)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 08:29 AM

101. There is a correct answer.

Don't work with the Republicans period...no good ever comes from it. Bernie should not do this.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #101)

Sat Nov 19, 2016, 12:04 AM

245. Bingo!

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Response to TeamPooka (Reply #245)

Sat Nov 19, 2016, 12:22 AM

250. We only give them cover.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #250)

Sat Nov 19, 2016, 12:25 AM

251. and then Trump comes out and says "I told you I was the only one who could fix this!" Fuck that shit

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #101)

Wed Nov 23, 2016, 02:44 AM

319. this is ridiculous. Don't work with republicans if you have to give them more than you get.

 


but without strings attached if a republican wants to do a good thing, let them fucking do it. First of all, how likely do you think it is this will even happen. Second of all, if it does republicans have to suddenly defend this sort of legislation. It becomes part of the republican record, and that is not a bad thing. If they distance themselves from it in the future they have to risk alienating people they courted with it.

It is simply irresponsible to try to block all things. Yes the republicans do it, and the American people suffer from it. Besides, thinking that you can play the same game as Republicans though is fundamentally misunderstanding how our media works. It would be brutal on the Dems in a way it never was on the Pubs.

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 04:41 PM

2. Bernie is putting out the challenge. Trump will deny he ever said anything about this.

 

Anyone who put faith in Trump is going to be sorely disappointed.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #2)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 12:11 PM

175. It's good politics to push positive solutions for the people, failed politics to call him a traitor.

.


Some people need to realize that this is a four year involvement and, if the net benefit is a positive for Democratic Party values, they should be pursued, regardless of who is president.


Some people need to detach from the election and the rigidness of thought/vindictiveness that permeates Republicans.


We are better than that! Fight on the issues that compromise our values, support things that benefit them.


===


Trump will try to distance himself from many positions, as he is reversing course on so many promises.

His base is too stupid to realize that, even if he is challenged and agrees to past promises.


.

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Response to TheBlackAdder (Reply #175)

Sat Nov 19, 2016, 12:28 AM

252. No we have to play by their rules or we will never win.

Being better means shit if we never get a chance to govern...and Obama was given no chance. Thus they get the same treatment and maybe next time we are in power they will consider if they want to govern ever ... maybe they should stand down...or not...either way, they don't get to put shitty GOP policy into law and claim it was bipartisan because we fight them...and that would include stripping any Dem who does not fight of any yummy congressional goodies...we play hardball. It is the only chance we have.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #252)

Sat Nov 19, 2016, 10:54 AM

274. So, we devolve just like the Repugs--tit for tat, like an elementary school fight as people suffer.

.

Even the Republicans allowed certain things to pass. They weren't 100% asshole, but we should be.

So we become them, act like spiteful children just because they did the same thing.


If a law or act is beneficial, that should be immaterial.

.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #2)

Sun Nov 20, 2016, 10:14 PM

307. Trump will most likely try to do away w/ min wage completely.

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 04:45 PM

3. But he couldn't give work with Hillary for 12 it had to be 15 or she was a

corrupt, establishment politician working against working class people.

MY GOD!

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Response to boston bean (Reply #3)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 04:48 PM

6. It's stunning to see, isn't it? I know it's just a gambit for Bernie, but yeah...

 

Hope this puts shit in perspective for everyone.

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #6)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 08:51 AM

104. You think we should admire this?

I don't.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #104)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 09:23 AM

108. Nope, I meant stunning in the worst way. Strange times.

 

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #108)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 10:55 AM

141. I agree with that completely.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #3)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 04:52 PM

9. She wasn't president at the time

Give me a break. This is Bernie try to work with Trump after the election. In reality, he's probably trying to simply expose how Trump was full shit.

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Response to ThirdEye (Reply #9)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 06:41 PM

25. And the goal posts start moving

We've had 2 days of non stop criticism of Hillary's campaign but still, whatever Sanders does is pure as the driven snow.

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Response to mcar (Reply #25)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 07:04 PM

30. Yup.

Ugly.

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Response to mcar (Reply #25)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 09:49 PM

52. Yup!

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Response to mcar (Reply #25)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 09:55 PM

55. What goal post?

If by goal post you mean "election night" then yes, the goal post has been moved. Otherwise, what do you mean goal post?

Ok, if Sanders threatened Hillary that he'd refuse to work with her on $12 if she won (not simply not support her in the GE), I see your point. I'll assume that's your point.

But don't you think Sanders is just trying to expose Trump?

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Response to ThirdEye (Reply #55)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 10:13 PM

67. No he is not. He is capitulating, period. They all will.

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Response to leftofcool (Reply #67)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 10:18 PM

70. and how do you know this?

Do you know the man personally?

and if they all will - doesn't that speak to something greater than Sanders?

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Response to ThirdEye (Reply #70)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 01:28 PM

184. There are none so blind as those

who will not see. It's going to be a long few years.

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Response to WhiteTara (Reply #184)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 01:53 PM

189. You could be referring to me, the others in this thread, or everyone...

... and you'd probably be right in all cases.

d'oh!

Actually, that's one reason I'm telling friends in family: don't waste energy engaging with Trump voters, spend that energy engaging with people who didn't vote for Trump or Clinton, especially those who just didn't vote. Trump voters will never change their mind or admit their president is flawed.

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Response to ThirdEye (Reply #189)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 01:59 PM

191. So you're for the 10 minimum wage?

That's what your hero is trying to jam down the throats of those that supported him when he said $15 only and Hillary is a stooge for mentioning that $12 was a passable wage. But instead the bright shining hero of the the alt left has hung us all out to dry as he says he will enthusiastically work with Drumpf. Blind indeed.

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Response to WhiteTara (Reply #191)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 02:45 PM

192. Nope

I don't specifically support $10/hr for the minimum wage. I do support $15/hr. More than that, I support tracking the minimum wage with some other indicator so we can pull away form having to debate raising it. Something like GDP or inflation.

Having lived in Vermont for decades, having been represented by Bernie for decades in various capacities, having met him myself, having close friends who are personally close to him, I'm compelled to give him the benefit of the doubt on his approach.

If it ends up being truly as you say, then it's terrible.

Keep in mind, among your strong words is really negative rhetoric that, to me at least, only emphasizes how much the recent loss has hurt you personally. Calling me blind, saying he's enthusiastically working from trump, throwing out the term "alt left" as if that's even well defined. Seems to me you have an opinion about Bernie, you arrived at it a long time ago, and you wish to keep it that way.

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Response to ThirdEye (Reply #192)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 04:09 PM

199. Yes, you are correct. This election

did wound me and although I am working to not be negative; I find it very difficult to let this pass as water over a duck. While Bernie may prove to be a savior of the world, he did say that he would enthusiastically work with Trump for his (Bernie's) goals and in the next breath capitulates on the $15.00 minimum wage...never mind his excoriation of Hillary's $12. proposal.

I have to say that my faith in men has been shattered during this election season. Where is Bernie demanding Trump's tax returns before he takes office...oh, he probably won't as that would bring up HIS refusal to submit his tax returns, right before he bought his 3rd house. Just little things like that make my hair stand on end with the horror of the knowledge that women will, for the foreseeable future once again be relegated to the back seat and the dust bin of history. Hillary was given impossible standards that Bernie is now ignoring for Trump. White men backing white men is what it appears on the surface; but maybe there is 20 dimensional chess going on and Bernie will save us all.

But let's all sing kumbaijah and have a jolly good time watching every advance we (as women and society) have made be reversed. As a white man, your privilege is secure; but I hope you'll join us on the 21st in the march for women in DC.

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Response to WhiteTara (Reply #199)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 05:02 PM

208. I can't relate to it but I can respect your point of view

Because you're right, I am a white male. I also have a well paying job that will not go away due to a Trump presidency. I am, however, married to a someone who isn't an American citizen. So there is some fear, but I will never claim to understand or relate to the plight of those truly affected. Seriously, I was ill for days after the election and then I realized: holy shit, this won't even directly affect me and I'm scared shitless, think of the people this directly affects (a.k.a. almost everyone else). It was a humbling moment.

I can't argue against your point about the tax returns. You're probably right. I would emphasize that Bernie is far from wealthy. True story, he inconvenienced me on a road here in Vermont once by driving super slow in a banged up Saturn, preventing me from turning on to a road. It was a bit of an LOL moment when I passed him a few minutes later and saw it was a US Senator. That was only 3 or 4 years ago.

I agree, there's no kumbaijah. My faith in Americans, specifically white men, was shattered as well. Frankly, I didn't have much faith in them to begin with. Edit: I should say no kumbaijah as in I'd rather us fight back with a hardline against them, I do not like Bernie approach here myself.

I will honestly look into that march you reference. I have friend near DC that I will also talk to.

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Response to WhiteTara (Reply #199)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 06:18 PM

234. WhiteTara, this is an absolutely first rate post.

I could cry. You summed it all up so beautifully.

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Response to WhiteTara (Reply #199)

Sat Nov 19, 2016, 12:46 AM

261. I am going.

Hubs says no...but I am going. He will have to deal with it. (He fears for my safety with a fascist about to inaugurated).

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #261)

Sat Nov 19, 2016, 11:52 AM

275. I want to go. I found a hostel for

$80 a night for a 4 share room, but still no transportation. My physical limitation is that I have a damaged spine and can't walk for long periods of time nor stand indefinitely. I could try and find a wheel chair when I get there, but it all sounds so hard and right now I really hurt.

I went to DC so often during the *co 8 years, but time passes and I think I may be too old this time. THis is a torch that must be passed to younger women everywhere.

Thank you for going. Take a step for me!

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Response to WhiteTara (Reply #275)

Sat Nov 19, 2016, 05:05 PM

292. What State are you in Tara?

I have a wheelchair...my daughter broke both her ankles.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #292)

Sat Nov 19, 2016, 08:36 PM

298. I'm in Arkansas

Where are you and the wheelchair? Sorry about your daughter's broken ankles. That must have been terrible.

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Response to WhiteTara (Reply #298)

Mon Nov 21, 2016, 09:47 AM

310. Ohio

She has surgery and is walking but I saved the wheelchair because you never know...the lousy hospital sent her home with crutches!! Like to broken ankles and you can use crutches...she was not supposed to put any weight on the ankle.

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Response to WhiteTara (Reply #199)

Sat Nov 19, 2016, 12:48 AM

263. What a wonderful post.

I feel exactly as you do...I really feel betrayed by those men (women too but I have not heard anything about that yet) including Bernie who are willing to work with Trump who is evil and a threat to everything I value.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #263)

Wed Nov 23, 2016, 10:08 AM

323. I must disagree with you on one point here

If i understand your mindset correctly so far in this thread then you believe that you all(using 'you all' since i am a Norwegian thus can't really say we) should oppose any and all things from trump/the reps since they are pure evil and a threat to what you value.

I just can't agree with that for the simple reason that if you oppose them on an issue that would improve upon one or more of the values you cherish then YOU would be the one thats harming those values(obviously if there are insidius or harmful strings attached to said bill, oppose away since that would be common sense)

As an outsider tho, i simply don't think sinking to the level of the republicans and blindly opposing everything they want to do would be beneficial to the Democratic party.

There is a quote by George Carlin(amongst others) i like that somewhat suits this: Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.( aka Democrats shouldn't try to emulate the idiocy of the republicans as they have much more practice in being idiots )

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Response to Bodhi BloodWave (Reply #323)

Wed Nov 23, 2016, 10:58 AM

325. I see your point but you have to understand

that the Republicans opposed everything Obama wanted to do...everything. They refused to allow us to govern and now don't deserve to be treated with any consideration. Plus, they have no good idea. The fascist right has hijacked the party...and we simply must refuse to give them any normalcy. They want to register Muslims ( among other awful things)..think about that. Personally, when they register Muslims. I too will register...as was done by Denmark during WWII. My daughter who is gay has been threatened at college by Trump supporters who stalked her on the internet. Trump represents a great evil and must be vanquished politically as soon as possible. It can not be business as usual with this man. He is dangerous.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #325)

Wed Nov 23, 2016, 11:23 AM

330. i'll be honest

I fully expect 99.5% of the things Trump or the republicans propose to be harmful in one way or another which gives valid grounds to oppose it, i'm merely saying that *iF* something is proposed that is beneficial and above board then those 0.5% should not be obstructed just cause of who proposes it.

To use an situation nearing the impossible(and yes, the situation chosen was based on your post since i assume the issue is one close to your heart), if Trump were to advocate a bill with nothing neferious attached to it that would improve the life of gays in the US in different ways then it would in my eyes be wrong both morally and ethically of the democrats to oppose it, admittedly such a bill from Trump would likely have nearly if not all republican politicans oppose it from the get go(thus falling under my near impossible category of ever happening in the first place)

So i think we are more or less in the same camp, i just don't belive in a totally blind obstruction.

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Response to Bodhi BloodWave (Reply #330)

Wed Nov 23, 2016, 11:52 AM

332. If McCain or Romney had won, I would agree with you.

Their policies would have been not to my liking but they were not fascists. Trump must be opposed because of who he is...and how he emboldens the KKK and the Nazis. But we mostly agree. And let's face it the GOP will not offer anything that will be any good.

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Response to ThirdEye (Reply #70)

Sat Nov 19, 2016, 12:29 AM

253. No it doesn't. It means we lose.

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Response to ThirdEye (Reply #70)

Sat Nov 19, 2016, 02:34 PM

285. Same to you - how do you know he's just exposing Trump's lies?

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Response to Lil Missy (Reply #285)

Sun Nov 20, 2016, 03:06 PM

300. Because I have met the man

And have several close friends who are close to him. (as close as you can be to a senator and not part of his family)

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Response to leftofcool (Reply #67)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 09:50 AM

111. Yep, it is capitulation. I would not have expected Bernie to be first in line

to do this.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #111)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 12:27 PM

178. Me either

 

But here we are.

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Response to workinclasszero (Reply #178)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 05:56 PM

217. Where is the liberal...fighter?

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #217)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 06:02 PM

221. Well the cynic in me says the 15 dollars an hour

 

figure was BS all along.

Kinda like Il Douche promising to bring back high paying union jobs with bennies to America LOL

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Response to workinclasszero (Reply #221)

Sat Nov 19, 2016, 12:30 AM

254. You are probably right. It makes me sad for all those kids who had such faith

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #111)

Sat Nov 19, 2016, 12:18 PM

278. Is he talking about how corrupt the appointees are? The pay for play and bizarre

 

Security clearances Trump is seeking that reek of the grossest corruption this nation has ever seen?

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Response to mcar (Reply #25)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 08:53 AM

105. Bernie is willing to work with Trump.

I don't find that admirable...he is waiving the white flag even before the inauguration...so much for fighting for the people and the revolution.

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Response to ThirdEye (Reply #9)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 10:17 PM

69. Bernie is a political genius... showing his true progressive leadership skills.

Last edited Sun Nov 20, 2016, 12:46 PM - Edit history (1)

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!

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Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #69)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 08:49 AM

103. Really?

Well, he is not a Democrat. Schumer should kick him out of his committees. Personally, it makes me dislike Bernie even more...that he is willing to do anything but obstruct. So much for the revolution. This is why Democrats lose. There is no loyalty to each other and fighting back. I forsee a big midterm loss and a 48 state loss in 20 if this continues. Trump is illegitimate and wants to register Muslims. By working with Trump AKA the new Hitler, you 'normalize him and his white supremacist buddies like Bannon.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #103)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 08:57 AM

106. Schumer should kick Bernie out of committees?! Really? Dems would be wise to put Bernie in a leadership position.

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Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #106)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 09:52 AM

112. He is in leadership.

And by offering to work with Republicans who are now White supremacists, he shows he shouldn't be in such a position. Loyalty matters and if Bernie can't be part of the united front against the fascist Republican party, then he should be removed from leadership. He could caucus with either party as an independent.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #112)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 10:20 AM

127. While I couldn't disagree with you more, I see where your coming from and respect your right to be wrong...

Last edited Sun Nov 20, 2016, 12:44 PM - Edit history (1)

My suggestion? Keep your eye on the ball... opposing Fuhrer Trump for the next four years and defeating that racist, mysogynistic pig in 2020!! Bernie has the leadership skills and, more importantly, the street cred to lead the charge. That's all I'm gonna say.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!

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Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #127)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 10:54 AM

140. I hope Bernie fights Trump and stands with Democrats

to defeat the monstrous evil that Trump represents...it is not an exaggeration to say our very future as a country depends on stopping Trump. I understand about loyalty to a candidate you believe in so I see where you are coming from. I hope you are right.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #140)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 11:39 AM

167. Thanks for your kind words. No doubt we ALL have to unite in fighting that shit stain on our democracy tRump, the second coming of Hitler who threatens our very existence.

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Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #167)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 06:00 PM

219. I completely agree.

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Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #106)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 06:15 PM

231. Why So He Can Call Dems Liberal Elites

 

in front of cameras over and over?

He's badmouthed Dems for years and is on a tour doing it again.

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Response to otohara (Reply #231)

Sat Nov 19, 2016, 12:31 AM

255. Is he really...kick him out...honestly he will only cause more damage.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #103)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 04:45 PM

203. The only thing that will lead to a 48 state loss

Is if we keep going down the moderate republican lite path we are on.

I'm going to fight for the people. My party will hopefully do the right thing.

Bashing Bernie on this is beyond hypocritical. Achieving progressive goals is a good thing.

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Response to hueymahl (Reply #203)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 05:56 PM

216. Working with Trump is the moderate path.

Fighting him tooth and nail is the people's fight and I say Bernie should not work with the Trump period. He has Sessions as AG. Flynn as NSA leader. Bannon too...we can not work with these people and maintain any sort of soul.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #216)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 06:08 PM

227. There are places to fight him tooth and nail

And places to advance a progressive agenda. They are not mutually exclusive.

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Response to hueymahl (Reply #227)

Sat Nov 19, 2016, 12:34 AM

256. No Republican will ever advance the progressive agenda when they have

all three branches of government. They will trick Democrats and lie. Also when you have someone who is truly evil...seriously...he is a modern day Hitler. He wants to register Muslims and go to war with Iran...he wants to jail LGBTQ and end free speech...He will kill people...we can not give him squat...or he becomes normal...we normalize evil...nothing would be worth that. There is no coming back from that.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #3)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 05:04 PM

12. Nope

 

wasn't good enough for Bros

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Response to boston bean (Reply #3)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 05:06 PM

14. And he got it from her as well...

 

Looks smart to me. Now he is boxing Trump into his own rhetoric. New situation, new tactic.

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Response to sfwriter (Reply #14)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 05:09 PM

16. He is so principled and can negotiate for something better. But hillary

Is just corrupt. Damn these rules for women politicians are hard to follow.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #16)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 05:41 PM

213. Isn't it amazing how 13 an hour was "selling out"....

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Response to sfwriter (Reply #14)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 05:18 PM

18. Some Revolution

 

just saying.

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Response to otohara (Reply #18)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 05:42 PM

214. Yep. (nt)

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Response to sfwriter (Reply #14)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 07:12 PM

32. Not gonna work though IMHO.

I wouldn't trust tRump as far as I could trow a Mack Truck. The man's a pathological LIAR who lies while he's saying he's not lying, and you can't box that clown into anything because his supporters don't CARE and they won't hold him accountable for anything. And, even though he doesn't necessarily get along with every GOP'er, they'll get along enough to destroy Medicare, privatize Social Security/prisons, increase defense spending, gut federal agencies etc. We know he doesn't have a mandate, and we know he's also unhinged as well. Also, not sure if if there are enough Rethugs to totally stop this monster from doing many of the things he wants to do TO this country.

IF Bernie can pull this off (doubtful because tRump is insane), then kudos to him, because tRump is certifiable. IF he doesn't, then he'll just be another person thrown under tRump's big, ugly, racist, orange bus.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #3)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 07:02 PM

29. STOP IT! Seriously FFS already.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #3)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 07:21 PM

33. THIS

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Response to boston bean (Reply #3)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 07:24 PM

35. He was trying to win the nomination...

 

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Response to TrekLuver (Reply #35)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 09:48 AM

110. Trump is about to appoint Jeff Sessions

a racist jim crow kind of guy as Attorney General. There is no working with these monsters.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #110)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 11:02 AM

147. What you are seeing here is how people overlook the racism...

Well, they shouldn't be surprised when people point out what their vote actually meant.

Sorry berners who voted for Trump. You gonna have to deal with the impact of your vote.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #147)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 06:06 PM

225. Thank you...they may not be racist but they cast a racist vote...anyone who voted for Trump.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #110)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 11:07 AM

149. Oh I know it's shaping up to be a Rogues Gallery...I'm not surprised...this is

 

what the "people" voted for.

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Response to TrekLuver (Reply #149)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 06:05 PM

224. We shouldn't help them.

Let them do their dirty deeds all on their own...if Democrats don't fight, we are so screwed.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #3)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 11:00 AM

146. YES!!!!!!!

 

What the actual FUCK!!!??

I can't take this shit anymore! I can't believe Bernie is rolling over for this horseshit! DAMN!

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Response to boston bean (Reply #3)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 11:08 AM

150. Ye gods, that's what jumped out at me. 10 fu&cking dollars!

$15 Minimum wage. This was one of the hammers he kept hitting Hillary over the head during the primaries, and the got the Dems to include it in his platform. What, now he folds like a house of cards? WHAT A HYPROCRITE. Another politician who'll say whatever to get elected.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #3)

Wed Nov 23, 2016, 02:52 AM

320. wtf is this nonsense. Please tell me you didn't think this through.

 


They had a primary. In the primary they were distinguishing themselves by their differences. This was only one issue among them. He was very correct in saying that Clinton was too cozy with Wall Street, at least as far as a lot of us are concerned. Why it isn't a problem for you, I'm not quite sure. But when the primaries were over he spoke eloquently on the merits of the platform Clinton adopted. She was the nominee and he leveraged his popularity to get a platform he could feel good about, and he supported it and her.

Trump is the next President, and it would be stupid and childish for Sanders to say he intends to ensure Trump gets nothing at all done in the White House. That shit only works for Repubs, who have a constituency that appreciates that childishness. Tell me we aren't like that.

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 04:46 PM

4. Trump called for eliminating the federal minimum wage. He also called for it to be raised.

 

I see no reason to give this snake oil salesman this respect. Far too many Dems are doing it.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-presidential-debate-fact-check/2016/10/trump-kaine-minimum-wage-229149

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 04:46 PM

5. Of course, Hillary was excoriated for suggesting

$12.00 and he would never work with her unless it was $15.

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Response to WhiteTara (Reply #5)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 04:51 PM

8. Ripped Her Apart -

 

like a rag doll.

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Response to WhiteTara (Reply #5)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 11:15 AM

155. Corporate wall street sellout whore was

 

what Hillary got called repeatably ...on this board...for the CRIME of calling for a 12 dollar wage vs 15!

But now Bernie is good with 10 damn dollars from the Gropenfuhrer???

I am absolutely gobsmacked by that! Blindsided!!! WTF Bernie??????????????????????????????????????????

Thanks for the crumbs from your golden plate King Trump!!!!

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Response to workinclasszero (Reply #155)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 01:16 PM

182. Well, white men are back in charge and

fuck us peons, especially those who believed so deeply in him they destroyed the one candidate who would actually herald change.

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Response to WhiteTara (Reply #182)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 01:27 PM

183. "Well, white men are back in charge and...."

 

There you go. No need to add anything further.

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Response to workinclasszero (Reply #183)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 01:30 PM

185. except for that scream so

eloquently expressed by Munch

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Response to WhiteTara (Reply #185)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 01:35 PM

186. Yeah..self portrait since Amerika voted Trump Fuhrer

 

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Response to workinclasszero (Reply #186)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 01:42 PM

188. That's what I look like on

the inside. The outside is blank with horror.

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Response to workinclasszero (Reply #155)

Wed Nov 23, 2016, 06:08 PM

336. Schwarzenegger was the Gropenfuhrer

Shouldn't Trump be something like the Katzchengreifener?

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 04:49 PM

7. Trump is going to abolish the minimum wage not raise it.

It's nice to see Bernie allied with Trump though.

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Response to leftofcool (Reply #7)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 05:00 PM

11. Hillary couldn't wait to "work with Republicans", and I well remember

 

her primary partisans explaining to us what a great thing that was.

If Bernie can get Trump to move toward us on OUR issues, like a higher minimum wage, more power to him-- it's not quite the same as becoming a Republican-enabler.



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Response to BlueProgressive (Reply #11)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 06:48 PM

27. Welcome to DU.

I agree with you on this. Obama was also faulted for trying to compromise with the GOP. The minimum wage must be increased. This sounds like excellent chess playing by Sanders.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #27)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 09:58 PM

56. Obama was faulted on this board

by many of the same people who are now applauding Sanders.

Some of us are pointing out the double standard, or dare we say hypocrisy?

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Response to mcar (Reply #56)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 12:24 PM

177. Different situations?

President Obama was elected with a 365 electoral vote mandate. He had a strong position from which to negotiate. But he wasted far too much time and political energy looking for "GOP moderates" with whom he could work. In the end, he got nothing but obstruction, racist attacks, and birtherism directed at him.

Sanders on the other hand is dealing from a position of weakness.

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Response to BlueProgressive (Reply #11)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 11:54 PM

84. Sorry, no cigar.

"Working with Republicans" to get things done is not the same as capitulating to Trump the rapist in chief. Nice try though.

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Response to leftofcool (Reply #84)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 04:12 AM

93. Well, you all should know.

 

" 'Working with Republicans' to get things done is not the same as capitulating to Trump the rapist in chief."


The only "capitulations" I've seen so far happened on election night.

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Response to BlueProgressive (Reply #93)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 09:59 AM

114. Yes it is. It is working with the devil. Working with Trump gives him legitimacy

when he should have none...he is a racist piece of crap who will appoint judges that will jail Gay people,women,minorities, protesters and protect "christian freedom". You can't work with such evil..look at what happened in Germany. Are we becoming a "the trains run on time kind of nation?" It could happen here.

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Response to BlueProgressive (Reply #11)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 08:59 AM

107. Wrong wrong and wrong

There is a difference between working with Congres when you are president and what Bernie is doing...he is a Senator...I consider it wrong ,wrong and wrong. It makes me sad to see Bernie do this. They would not even allow Obama to select a judge on his watch which was his constitutional right...at the very least all Democrats and Bernie too should refuse to do anything until Obama's court pick is confirmed...you can't appease the GOP and you have to fight. After 30 years in the Senate, Bernie should know this. I know we will have those in areas like WVA who do things like this but Bernie? He should not do it

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Response to BlueProgressive (Reply #11)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 12:30 PM

179. Trump isn't really a Republican. He uses their name, but he isa different monster altogether.

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 04:57 PM

10. Wasn't this the same guy who decried Hillary for considering an increase to 12?

 

This doesn't sit well with me!

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #10)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 05:05 PM

13. Nor me

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #10)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 05:07 PM

15. Why?

 

He is changing tactics with the situation.

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Response to sfwriter (Reply #15)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 05:12 PM

17. That is a convenient excuse.

 

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Response to sfwriter (Reply #15)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 05:33 PM

23. This Must Be Part Of The Revolution

 

I'm not impressed

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Response to sfwriter (Reply #15)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 06:43 PM

26. But it PE Clinton reached out to Rs

I don't think this would be the response.

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Response to mcar (Reply #26)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 08:51 PM

43. Word like "traitor", "sellout", "POSUCs" and "Republican"...

would ring through the hallowed halls of DU. Many flamefests would ensue.

Unbelievable.

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Response to greatauntoftriplets (Reply #43)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 09:39 PM

47. Oh yeah

Akin to all the hair on fire screeds about sellout Obama.

Some things will never change, apparently.

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Response to mcar (Reply #47)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 10:00 PM

59. Never.

I forgot "spineless".

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Response to greatauntoftriplets (Reply #59)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 10:03 PM

62. "Corporatist!!11"

And who can forget: oligarchy, oligarchy, oligarchy!

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Response to mcar (Reply #62)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 10:59 PM

75. As much as I try to forget.

Funny thing, a few months ago I heard a Republican whine about "oligarchy". Go figure.

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Response to sfwriter (Reply #15)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 10:00 AM

115. It is a traitors move in my opinion. He should not do it.

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Response to sfwriter (Reply #15)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 01:37 PM

187. and of course when she does that she is called a manipulative liar

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #10)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 05:24 PM

20. Yes, one in the same.

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #10)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 07:06 PM

31. Bernie is practical......this isn't a discussion between liberals

 

He is trying to help working people in the context of a Trump Presidency.

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Response to virtualobserver (Reply #31)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 07:47 PM

37. That doesn't fly with me.

 

He and his supporters went after those who said $12 and now he says $10 is OK.

Sorry but that makes him look like a hypocrite to me.

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #37)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 08:01 PM

38. He isn't abandoning those people currently working for 7

 

They don't have the luxury of a philosophical discussion on this issue.

Bernie lives in the real world. As President, he would have used the bully pulpit to get $15.

As Senator, his job is to get the best deal that he can from a Trump administration.



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Response to virtualobserver (Reply #38)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 08:04 PM

39. Gee, that was our argument for Hillary in the primary and we got called third way stooges.

 

It was a sin for Hillary to be practical but it is a virtue for Sanders.

Doesn't fly with me.

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #39)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 09:05 PM

45. Look where it got her....small ideas create small enthusiasm

 

Bernie would have been campaigning in the rust belt for higher wages and against the trade deals.

Hillary lost to Trump, so now Bernie has to work with the cards that he has been dealt.

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Response to virtualobserver (Reply #45)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 10:56 PM

74. Or is Sanders settling just for 10?

 

Seems if he was for $15 once he should be for it now.

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #74)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 12:54 AM

88. He is boxing Trump in...Trump said that he would support a 10 minimum wage

 

Bernie holding him to his words during the campaign.

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Response to virtualobserver (Reply #88)

Sat Nov 19, 2016, 05:12 PM

294. This is a win win for DPutin... he says yes, he wins .. he says no... he wins and no one cares

... in the M$M or his base of voters

HRC base of supporters hate DPutin to core

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #39)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 10:06 PM

64. Who was Hillary being "practical" against?

 

Bernie?

Another question: Who was she being practical TO?

Big business?

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #64)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 10:55 PM

73. Her point was that not every area could afford a 15 minimum wage. I am not saying I agreed or...

 

..disagreed with this position but she felt she was being practical.

Now Sanders is settling for $10 to be practical.

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #73)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 12:13 AM

85. He should aim higher after Trump pulled his Ford stunt.

 

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #64)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 09:35 AM

109. There was consensus among a group of Dem senators from different states that 12 was doable

 

And a plan to fight for it. Unlike 15$, it was not a number pulled out of her ass.

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #109)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 03:22 PM

197. Always aim high in your negotiations....

 

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #197)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 04:36 PM

200. Always lie to the public? I've seen a few pundits reccomend that too. Lie to coal workers, to

 

College kids, get their hopes up and get the votes and don't worry about lying to them.

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #200)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 04:42 PM

202. Where did you get that from what I posted?

 

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Response to virtualobserver (Reply #38)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 10:07 AM

119. He is abandoning as he gives Trump legitimacy.

And that is the worst thing he could do.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #119)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 11:10 AM

151. You can't abandon the country for four years

 

There are actual people with actual lives affected by this.

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Response to virtualobserver (Reply #151)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 06:04 PM

223. Yes you can, and you must

Nothing the Gop want is worth it...nothing...they kept Obama neutered for eight years...payback time or Dems will continue to screwed over.

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Response to virtualobserver (Reply #31)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 11:41 PM

79. LOL, there is nothing about Bernie's platform that could ever be described as "pratical."

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Response to virtualobserver (Reply #31)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 10:01 AM

116. Really...well I am sure Trump who will be so accomodating.

You want to help working people...win the midterms...this is party suicide. What reason will people have to vote against Trump in the midterms?

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #116)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 11:14 AM

153. You want to win the midterms? Let Bernie do his work.

 

Trump will give many, many reasons for people to vote against him in the next two years.

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Response to virtualobserver (Reply #153)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 06:03 PM

222. Bullshit...Bernie will either be blamed and Democrats who he is associated with if

things don't work out or Trump will take all credit and happy people who see Trump keeping his word (like Obama had such a chance) and elect GOP's during the midterm and re-elect Trump in 20. Bernie does not impress me as someone who can help us win.

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #10)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 01:16 AM

89. me either

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #10)

Sun Nov 20, 2016, 06:50 PM

305. Not here either.

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 05:23 PM

19. Within a week he's read to work w/ Trump, yet he couldn't afford Hillary the same courtesy.

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Response to grossproffit (Reply #19)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 10:00 PM

58. What are you talking about?

He campaigned for her vigorously after she won the nomination. He worked his ass off for months! Now he's dealing with the reality in front of him.

He most certainly would have afforded Hillary the same courtesy.

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Response to ThirdEye (Reply #58)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 10:15 PM

68. Perhaps you don't remember him saying

that he would fight Hillary every step of the way after she won the election?

He said that during the campaign. He said it when he should have been strongly on her side.

https://trofire.com/2016/10/27/bernie-sanders-vows-hold-hillary-accountable-progressives/

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Response to athena (Reply #68)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 10:22 PM

71. Holding someone accountable is not the same as fighting with them.

Plus, he has said he'd fight Trump and hold him accountable. In that case he meant fight and accountable, not just accountable.

It is my opinion that he had to take this approach, whether he wanted to or not, otherwise the people who believed in him would have lost all faith. They needed to know that if they voted Hillary that he would hold her accountable for what she promised. That, in just my opinion, was the correct approach at the time.

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Response to ThirdEye (Reply #58)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 10:40 AM

131. No he did not campaign for her vigorously.

Last edited Fri Nov 18, 2016, 12:27 PM - Edit history (1)

First he tried to fight her at the convention and his supporters tried to disrupt it. Then he vanished from the campaign trail. He finally emerged at the end but too little, too late IMHO. Now he's everywhere.

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Response to LisaM (Reply #131)

Sat Nov 19, 2016, 01:27 AM

269. Thank you! If I never saw him again it would be too soon.

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Response to grossproffit (Reply #19)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 10:03 AM

117. Yes that is it. It shows how indepenents are way more willing to work

with the GOP than Democrats. And it shows why we lose.

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 05:32 PM

21. But Trump says American workers are paid too much and that's why we can't compete

in the global economy. Nothing is going to change in the next 4 years . . . unless it changes for the worse.

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 05:32 PM

22. No thanks Bernie, states are taking up the matter and going for the original 15!!!

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 06:39 PM

24. But Hillary saying 12 was a deal breaker?

I await the Sanders supporters criticism of their candidate.

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 06:51 PM

28. I'm sick of Bernie

I'll probably get banned for that. Oh well.

I voted for him in the primary, because I wanted to show my support for both candidates. My husband voted for Hillary in the primary. We thought that would be fair. We live in Ohio.

We were very excited and enthusiastic to support Hillary but (correctly) thought Bernie would push the Democratic platform to the left. Fine.

Bernie stayed in the race too long and hurt Hillary. He ripped her over this minimum wage business and now he's willing to sell out and deal with Trump over $10 an hour? NO.

I'd rather the Dems right tooth and nail and keep rallying for $15.

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Response to theglammistress (Reply #28)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 06:35 AM

97. I'm sick of losing election cycle after election cycle.

He knows Trump is going to do as much for the working class as the Third Way has done. A big fat nothing.

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Response to Cobalt Violet (Reply #97)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 10:09 AM

120. So he works with Triimp? Sorry, I think it is a terrible thing to do.

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Response to Cobalt Violet (Reply #97)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 11:46 PM

240. Ditto. What are Democrats going to do to win back 64 Rust Belt electoral votes?

Many on DU have a let-'em-starve attitude, but who's going to make up the deficit? Georgia? Texas? LOL

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Response to theglammistress (Reply #28)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 10:06 AM

118. I live in Ohio

My husband and I split our vote too. We watched in horror during the primary as Bernie railed against the Democratic Party and drove Hillary's favorable ratings down. He stayed too long and never conceded. He treated Hillary with disdain when it mattered. Oh, he tried when he realized Trump might get elected and I doubt he wanted a Trump presidency. But he helped create one and now is working with the devil in my opinion...no good will come of it. And it makes me dislike him all the more.

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 07:22 PM

34. I hope it's not against the rules to say that I don't trust either of them. n/t

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Response to Tarheel_Dem (Reply #34)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 08:45 PM

41. You're Not Alone

 

Both told their followers exactly what they'd do and both are walking it all back...faster than I thought.

LMAO

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Response to otohara (Reply #41)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 10:02 PM

60. Keep laughing...

...after your candidate lost. She lost. He's still here, fortunately, trying his best to avoid a disaster with Trump. If he was working with Hillary as president, he would have been negotiating with someone that shared many fundamental principles. That's not the case, and it won't be. He has to work with what's in front of him. Plus, I think he's gambling Trump will not support even $10 and that can used against him later.

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Response to ThirdEye (Reply #60)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 10:36 PM

72. Plan On It - Ha, Ha, Ha

 

She lost and I don't care - I hope she can live the rest of her life quietly with her family/friends and be done with it all. Who fucking needs this 24/7 garbage and hate like this the bros created. https://www.google.com/search?q=hillary+memes&rlz=1C1CHZL_enUS694US694&espv=2&biw=1522&bih=664&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjFoOXworHQAhVH92MKHY3UArAQ_AUIBigB

You all preferred her losing and so she did.

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Response to otohara (Reply #72)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 10:55 AM

142. I voted for Hillary

and I promoted Hillary tirelessly with friends, family and extended connections for months.

I'm not a "bro."

Even if that had not been the case, I would never in a million years preferred things to turn out this way.

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Response to ThirdEye (Reply #60)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 10:10 AM

121. Wrong and more wrong. He is doing no good and should fight

to oust Republicans...no good can come from working with them...just ask Obama.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #121)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 10:56 AM

143. Truthfully I'm pushing my opinion on his intent.

I do agree with you, working with them doesn't work and we've had 8 years of that.

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Response to ThirdEye (Reply #143)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 06:07 PM

226. There is no point...we will be screwed over and made to look bad or weak or both.

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 07:35 PM

36. Why shouldn't he work with this Trashpot to try to improve the lives of Americans?

 

That is what he was elected to do and it's a shame that they all can't grow up, figure it out and work together.
I do understand that it would feel good to block, block, block...but don't worry there is plenty of things that they'll have to get scrappy about. It also shows how once again yes we are the better party.

For all you folks crying how he hurt Clinton.....yes he did...that's kind of the point when you are trying to win a nomination. I do agree that it would of been nice had he bowed out earlier...not sure that would of even helped considering his supporter enthusiasm.

I applaud the Dem's saying they'll work with Trashpot because we are not outright ASSHOLES like many Republican representatives.
I know I don't feel like that aspect is fully recognized by the American people nor do they have disgust for these Repub blockers...I don't even think most of America realizes what these Pub's are even doing. People are just not paying that close attention and I know because I was one of them.

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Response to TrekLuver (Reply #36)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 08:50 PM

42. That's not our point

 

Our point is, Hillary was called everything but a child of god when she advocated for $12, and anyone supporting her on that position was blasted off the board. But now Sen. Sanders is getting plaudits for saying he'll work with Orangina on a $10 per hour minimum wage.

Smells like hypocrisy to me.

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Response to Erin_Petrovna (Reply #42)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 08:52 PM

44. Yes and I addressed that by saying he was trying to win the nomination...that's why.

 

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Response to TrekLuver (Reply #44)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 09:45 PM

50. I don't care if he was trying to be named Homecoming King

 

It's still hypocritical. What difference does it make why he said it or advocated it? It allowed him to paint Hillary as an enemy to the working poor and now he's trying to play the good guy by working with Trump? Nah. Doesn't work for me.

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Response to Erin_Petrovna (Reply #50)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 09:48 PM

51. I'm a realist....get a grip this is politics !!!!!

 

So if this is disappointing to all the die hard Bernie supporters I can understand but again let's be real here and not live in a realm we would like to inhabit but it's not reality.

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Response to TrekLuver (Reply #51)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 06:21 AM

96. Plus 1!

Thank you.

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Response to TrekLuver (Reply #36)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 10:12 AM

122. He shouldn't work with Trump because it legitmizes true evil.

Trump is not Romney or McCain...he is a fascist monster. And Bernie gives him cover by offering him jack shit. He shouldn't do it.

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Response to TrekLuver (Reply #36)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 06:16 PM

233. Right and if we do this, we legitimize his presidency...as we just elected Hitler II

I won't go along with that...any Dem or pol that works with Trump is dead to me.

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 08:43 PM

40. K&R

 

Not about to let this get buried.

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Response to otohara (Reply #40)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 07:06 AM

99. K&R, I agree but not for the same reason. You blame Bernie

for Hillary losing, so be it.
She lost the damn rust belt despite Sen. Sanders, & VP Biden working on her behalf. She lost it because of trade agreements, Wall Street ties, and consummate Washington/Globalist insider status.
Reading the article you attached to your OP shows Sen. Sanders reminding the PE of his pre-election populist messaging.

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Response to dae (Reply #99)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 10:16 AM

124. I do blame Bernie

He was not the entire reason Clinton lost but there is no doubt in my mind had he not run in the primary, she would be the president - elect. That being said, if Bernie was willing to fight the evil that Trump represents, I would support him. Sorry when we have a Jim Crow racist like sessions appointed as AG, there can be no working with these people. $10.00 and hour which we will never get. Trump will add a poison pill and then claim the Dems are against raising the minimum ...why he tried blah blah. We sell our very souls when we work with such evil.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #124)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 12:58 PM

181. Sorry but we have elections here, not coronations.

Hillary had many issues that made her a weak candidate, some of her own making, some of perception, and some from the 24/7 Repub hate machine.
FWIW, I supported Hillary after the convention.

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Response to dae (Reply #181)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 05:58 PM

218. Well Trump is now the president...so pardon me if I don't shed a few tears

that my gay daughter may be facing prison because we lost. And we lost partly because of the primary. If Bernie had never run, Clinton would be president...Sessions would not be the AG and Flynn would not be the head of NSA. It is a shitshow...and we are pretty much fucked.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #218)

Wed Nov 23, 2016, 02:19 AM

318. Believe what you will but just because you and others say

"Bernie cost Hillary the election" doesn't make it true.

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Response to dae (Reply #318)

Wed Nov 23, 2016, 11:06 AM

326. Just because you say Bernie didn't cost Hillary the election doesn't make it true.

Had Bernie never run, we would have President Clinton...why he did this in such a crucial year for the courts etc...I will never understand.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #326)

Wed Nov 23, 2016, 11:21 AM

329. Ego.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #326)

Wed Nov 23, 2016, 04:17 PM

335. You are correct, it was Her turn. It doesn't matter how high

her negatives were and she was beat by the only candidate with a lower approval rating than her.
She was viewed as "establishment" in a populist message driven election.
Why do you think Bernie caught on? It was his messaging.

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Response to dae (Reply #99)

Wed Nov 23, 2016, 11:32 AM

331. Called it. The Bernie-bashing is going to hit primary levels again.

Despite y'know, a large percentage of us who pulled for Bernie shelving our disillusionment with Hillary to vote against Trump. But no one's really gonna focus on that, and you know it.

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 09:08 PM

46. 12 wasn't enough though right?

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Response to rbrnmw (Reply #46)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 09:41 PM

48. 12 wasn't enough

But 10 is practical. Or something.

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Response to rbrnmw (Reply #46)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 10:04 PM

63. Not from a Democrat.

 

I expect more from Democrats. From Trump, who knows. If he can get ten, great.

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Response to sfwriter (Reply #63)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 11:54 AM

172. Exactly (n/t)

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Response to rbrnmw (Reply #46)

Sat Nov 19, 2016, 12:04 PM

276. Yup

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 09:44 PM

49. Bernie will now work for Trump... OK...

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Response to MyNameIsKhan (Reply #49)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 10:17 AM

125. That is what is happening, and he should not be allowed to do it from a Democratic

leadership position.

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Response to MyNameIsKhan (Reply #49)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 11:57 PM

242. Do you want struggling Americans to have a higher minimum wage, or not? (n/t)

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Response to SMC22307 (Reply #242)

Sat Nov 19, 2016, 05:06 PM

293. No, I don't want shit the Gop is oferring...you can bet it will come with strings...and sneaky shit.

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 09:50 PM

53. I'd be more afraid that the GOP would try to end the minimum wage altogether. NT

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 09:52 PM

54. No way this doesn't Bern the Bro's.

 

Or put their hypocrisy on display for all.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #54)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 10:18 AM

126. this

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 09:59 PM

57. Wow

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 10:03 PM

61. The GOP wants the minimum wage to be 3.50 an hour.

 

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #61)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 11:49 PM

82. Yep. And they control all three branches of government.

Bernie is no fool.

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 10:06 PM

65. Kicking

 

love how there's only two recommends. (one is mine)

Whuuuut up with that?

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 11:24 PM

77. Say it ain't so

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 11:25 PM

78. Everyone, please read the posts ...

the posts about voters purged (in greater numbers than what trump won in some states), possible/probable vote tampering, and Comey. There are bigger enemies out there.

Having said that, I like both Hillary and Bernie. I don't know what's up w/ Bernie's negotiating w/ trump, but I suspect Bernie is doing his best with the situation. I don't know what was up w/ Hillary's campaign decisions, but I suspect she did her best w/ the situation.

In the meantime, here is what I do know. The real enemies are the cheats & bigots: Comey, voter suppressing conservatives, vote tampering criminals, racists, misogynists, anti-Semites, homophobes, trump, pence, ryan, priebus, giuliani, chaffetz, ....

My God, the list is exhausting even to start. I can't even think about criticizing Sanders and Clinton right now, b/c the real problems are just too overwhelming.

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Response to Sunny05 (Reply #78)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 11:48 PM

81. What do you expect a United States Senator to do?

Sit in the corner and pout for four years? Bernie has said he'll work with Trump on good policy (like protecting SS and Medicare), and fight him on bad policy (like climate change "hoax" nonsense). If DU thinks Bernie will act like Republicans acted against Obama, they're in for a rude awakening.

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Response to SMC22307 (Reply #81)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 06:04 AM

95. Weird how pragmatic, baby steps, practical progressivism is now bad.

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Response to GreenPartyVoter (Reply #95)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 10:42 AM

132. LOL! No, practical baby step progressivism was bad when Hillary proposed anything realistic.

Bernie promised the moon with $15/hr, and it turns out to be bullshit after all.

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Response to R B Garr (Reply #132)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 11:20 AM

157. Its very obvious now right?

 

This makes me sick.

Talk about a sell out. FUCK!

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Response to workinclasszero (Reply #157)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 11:24 AM

160. It is totally obvious, but sadly actually expected. To think we spent

months -- over a year-- calling out the obvious fantasyland we observed from him! Holy crap.

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Response to R B Garr (Reply #160)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 11:29 AM

163. And where are all the "feel the bern" people now

 

that Bernie is fighting for a...ten.dollar.wage.....when they excoriated Hillary on a daily basis for over a year and called her a corp/wall st whore because she supported a 12 dollar an hour wage??


Come and defend this BS now folks!!!

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Response to workinclasszero (Reply #163)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 02:50 PM

193. 10 is a small piece of this puzzle

the article said:

Sanders, speaking with reporters at a Christian Science Monitor sponsored breakfast, said he is ready to embrace Trump on a handful of campaign promises. Those include protecting Social Security and Medicare, negotiating for lower drug prices, raising the minimum wage to $10, imposing tariffs on companies that ship jobs overseas, and re-regulating Wall Street by re-establishing Glass-Steagall.

On these issues, Trump's promises put the President-elect closer to Sanders than to most Republican Party leaders. House Speaker Paul Ryan, for example, would not commit to passing Trump's tariff plan during a Sunday appearance on CNN's "State of the Union with Jake Tapper," saying that the solution is reforming the US tax code, "not tariffs, not trade wars."


There's no defending $10/hr vs $15/hr. It's clear from everything I've read that Bernie is either hoping he's wrong about Trump and can work with him, or that he can keep these issues on the table, on the TV, and in people's minds to help progressives in the years to come.

Not sure what he's supposed to do better?

If he had been elected president (he wasn't of course and didn't even make it to the GE), he would have faught for $15. IF Hillary had won, he'd have fought for $12. That's just politics.

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Response to ThirdEye (Reply #193)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 02:55 PM

194. And yet Hillary was called a Third way/wall street bankster whore

 

10 million times weekly on DU for her 12 dollar proposal.

Hypocrisy really sucks balls!

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Response to workinclasszero (Reply #194)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 03:33 PM

198. Well those are your words, not mine

and they could be 100% true.

My personal opinion is that Hillary is a corporate controlled, money corrupted, status quo politician. "bankster" "whore" and "third way", well those aren't terms I would ever use and those that do are wrong and just being emotional (I don't mean you, I mean those you are referring to).


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Response to GreenPartyVoter (Reply #95)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 11:55 PM

241. LOL, no kidding.

God Bless ya, DU!

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Response to GreenPartyVoter (Reply #95)

Sat Nov 19, 2016, 03:51 PM

288. Anything that give legitmacy to the orange fascist is bad.

And all his and the GOP proposals reek.

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Response to SMC22307 (Reply #81)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 10:21 AM

128. I expect a US senator to fight for what is right.

Did the GOP ever work with Obama? Bernie should not give legitimacy to Trump...he should fight to win the midterms and ultimately 2020 and that won't happen if Dems give Trump and the GOP cover.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #128)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 11:33 PM

239. 2020, eh? How are Dems going to win back the 64 electoral votes lost...

in the Rust Belt, hmm? And don't say Texas or Georgia because I'll laugh and I'll laugh...

Ryan has a hard-on for Social Security and Medicare. I don't trust a word out of Trump's mouth, but IF he does the right thing on those two programs, I'll give him credit. And Bernie, for holding his feet to the fire, just as Obama asked us to do with him.

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Response to SMC22307 (Reply #239)

Sat Nov 19, 2016, 12:21 AM

249. Trump is a liar.

He won't keep his promises...and we lost by less than 300,000 votes in three states...it is doable but not with Sanders running around making Trump look normal...if the Dems work with Trump, they will be blamed for what doesn't work and he will claim credit for anything that seems to work...bad bad idea.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #249)

Sat Nov 19, 2016, 01:05 AM

266. Dems didn't go after the Bush Admin or Wall Street criminals.

Dems WILL work with Trump. Hell, even Obama said he wants Trump to succeed.

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Response to SMC22307 (Reply #239)

Sat Nov 19, 2016, 12:48 AM

262. Trump doing the right thing?

And as for Texas and Georgia, we will be lucky if they exist after Trump tears up the Iran deal.

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 11:41 PM

80. Wonderful!

....

Sanders, speaking with reporters at a Christian Science Monitor sponsored breakfast, said he is ready to embrace Trump on a handful of campaign promises. Those include protecting Social Security and Medicare, negotiating for lower drug prices, raising the minimum wage to $10, imposing tariffs on companies that ship jobs overseas, and re-regulating Wall Street by re-establishing Glass-Steagall.

....

Sanders is calling on Trump to fire Steve Bannon, the controversial former Breitbart executive who was recently named chief strategist of the Trump White House.

Sanders is promising to fight Trump "tooth and nail" on climate change, an issue that Trump has dismissed as a "hoax."

The Vermont senator opposes Trump's tax policy, which would cut taxes for the top 1% of earners by $317,000 per year, according to the Tax Policy Center.

And Sanders said it would be "an outrage" that would "completely divide the country" if Trump were to make good on his promise to appoint a special prosecutor to "lock up" Clinton.

....

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/17/politics/bernie-sanders-donald-trump-allies/index.html


The only adult in the room.

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 12:24 AM

86. Damn. I thought it would be safe to come back here, with the election over.

But it looks like the civil war re-enactors are still raking through the coals of the primary.

Sheesh.

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Response to mac56 (Reply #86)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 07:23 AM

100. .

Agree! Seems like old times.

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 12:40 AM

87. Thank you Bernie for bringing the action.


I'm proud of you Bernie.

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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #87)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 10:22 AM

129. I am not. It makes us look weak and divided.

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 01:23 AM

90. Should'nt we be starting the bid a little bit higher

isn't the point to negotiate down only if necessary? If we start at $10, by the time it's done the current minimum wage will go up by $.75 if we're lucky?

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Response to FrenchieCat (Reply #90)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 09:54 AM

113. Exactly.

Wasn't that the argument against Hillary? She advocated for $12 an hour and was excoriated here.

Like I said above, wow.

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 01:28 AM

91. This is pure gold. Bookmarking. nt

 

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 01:42 AM

92. Actually, here's Sanders' exact quote, not a CNN reporter's spin.

“He talked about raising the minimum wage to $10,” Sanders said. “That’s not high enough for me, but it’s better than $7.25 an hour, and we look forward to working with him to raise the minimum wage.”

On that, and a host of other issues of concern to financially strapped Americans, such as the cost of prescription drugs, Sanders said “we’ll find out soon enough” if Trump’s promises were sincere.

“Our job is to hold him accountable,” Sanders said, “and we intend to do that.”

....

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/monitor_breakfast/2016/1117/Sen.-Bernie-Sanders-It-s-time-for-Democratic-soul-searching


Since DU is all anti-CNN these days...

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Response to SMC22307 (Reply #92)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 05:54 AM

94. Stop! Interjecting facts are not allowed in certain circles

regarding Sen. Sanders.

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Response to SMC22307 (Reply #92)


Response to SMC22307 (Reply #92)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 10:13 AM

123. Thank you. /nt

 

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 10:45 AM

134. I wonder if he'll apologize to Hillary for excoriating her realistic 12/hr.

He promised $15 and can't deliver. Gee, who didn't see that coming!

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Response to R B Garr (Reply #134)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 10:46 AM

135. As long as you ignore Bernie's actual statement posted right above your outrage makes sense....

 

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Response to think (Reply #135)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 10:53 AM

138. Uh, yeah. I saw it. He wanted higher. No kidding! Who doesn't.

But that's the point. Reality is a whole different ballgame than his grandstanding without being accountable for anything you say. Clinton was brutalized about how out of touch she was with the common worker when she proposed $12/hr -- and he's now willing to accept $10. Such hypocrisy!

I still wonder if he'll apologize to Clinton for excoriating her realistic approach. Reality.

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Response to R B Garr (Reply #138)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 11:10 AM

152. He's holding Trump to his words. He says he wants more but he nor Clinton aren't president are they?

 

He has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to apologize for.

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Response to think (Reply #152)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 11:15 AM

154. Yep and had Bernie not run Clinton would be president elect.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #154)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 11:19 AM

156. If it makes you feel better keep telling yourself that. Why did Debbie Wasserman Schultz resign?

 

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Response to think (Reply #156)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 06:01 PM

220. We lost by less than 300,000 votes in three key states

so yeah, truth always makes me feel better even as we face the worst years of our lives.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #220)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 06:15 PM

232. I will agree that we are facing some very bad times. I wish you well. Take care....

 

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Response to think (Reply #232)

Sat Nov 19, 2016, 12:19 AM

248. Thanks... you too. This is not really about Bernie...the damage is done

But Bernie needs to stop. He can not normalize the evil that is Trump...no Democrat should. I have already called every elected person in my area and told them...'working with Trump is a deal breaker; I will vote for someone else period'. We will not argue about minimum wage as he ships Muslims off to internment camps or sends LGBTQ to jail or the shitty therapy which kills them. We will not be Germany. So lend a hand Bernie/all Democrats, or get out of the way.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #248)

Sat Nov 19, 2016, 12:37 AM

257. Bernie's not doing anything like that. Shame on you for suggesting such a thing. Bernie fights hard

 

Last edited Sat Nov 19, 2016, 01:36 AM - Edit history (1)

for what is right and your insinuation that he'd trade a minimum wage increase for something like that is just insulting.

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Response to think (Reply #257)

Sat Nov 19, 2016, 02:28 PM

283. By working with Trump and ignoring...the appointment of Sessions and wanting judges who will jail

LGBTQ and registering Muslims...Bernie ignores a great evil and give Trump cover.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #248)

Sat Nov 19, 2016, 01:41 AM

271. And the damage done. Did you forget why DWS resigned? Wow....

 

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Response to think (Reply #271)

Sat Nov 19, 2016, 02:26 PM

282. She won her election and was a convenient scapegoat.

There is nothing that anyone did at the DNC...that made Bernie lose...he got less votes and that is that. The horror that Democrats don't really like Bernie who has criticized the Democrats for year while giving the GOP a pass mostly. He lost...I seriously wish he would retire...because he will hurt our cause of stopping Trump.

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Response to think (Reply #152)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 11:20 AM

158. LOL, that's hilarious. The hypocrisy is astounding. He maligned Hillary for 12/hr,

but now that he is dealing with reality, he's willing to take $10 with no explanation as to why he mislead people.

Maybe he owes it to the American people to explain how his fantasy land proposals obviously wouldn't survive the real world.

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Response to R B Garr (Reply #158)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 11:26 AM

161. "He talked about raising the minimum wage to 10, Sanders said. Thats not high enough for me,"

 

but it’s better than $7.25 an hour, and we look forward to working with him to raise the minimum wage.”

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Response to think (Reply #161)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 11:42 AM

168. Yes, reality only matters now that Sanders has to deal with it.



In the meantime, he poisoned the minds of millions of young Americans by misleading them with his unrealistic promises. He also owes Clinton an apology for making her out to be an enemy of workers when she injected reality into his fantasyland grandstanding.

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Response to R B Garr (Reply #168)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 11:44 AM

169. Bernie wanted to raise the minimum wage to 15 by 2020. That is unrealistic?

 

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Response to think (Reply #169)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 11:51 AM

171. Oh, ffs. He said he was against incremental change, but that's because it was

Hillary's realistic $12/hr proposal. He obviously wanted his fantasyland high ground. Now that he's faced with reality, it's a different story. He should explain to the young people how he misled them.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-minimum-wage_us_5714fc02e4b0060ccda3b8df
He has also said that we don’t have to settle for incremental change, and our opinion is, a $12 minimum wage is incremental change.”

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Response to R B Garr (Reply #171)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 12:05 PM

173. "Heres a partial transcript from a speech Sanders delivered on Wednesday "

 

What Bernie Sanders Wants From Donald Trump

CLARE FORAN NOV 17, 2016

~Snip~

Here’s a partial transcript from a speech Sanders delivered on Wednesday evening in Washington, D.C., outlining an agenda that Democrats and Trump might agree upon:

Mr. Trump said, unlike many Republicans, the vast majority of Republicans, he said that he will not cut Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. Now, I believe we should expand Social Security … but that is what he said, and pay attention to see what he now does. The question that will be resolved pretty quickly is whether or not everything that he was saying to the working families of this country was hypocrisy, was dishonest, or whether he was sincere. And we will find that out soon enough. But No. 1, no cuts, says Mr. Trump, to Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid.

Mr. Trump says he wants to invest a trillion dollars in rebuilding our crumbling infrastructure. That is a good sum of money, that is exactly what we should be doing, and we can create millions of good-paying jobs if we do that. Mr. Trump, that’s what you said on the campaign trail, that’s what we look forward to seeing from you.

I happen to believe that the federal minimum wage … is a starvation wage, and that it should be raised to $15 dollars an hour, a living wage. Mr. Trump did not say that, but what he did say is we should raise the minimum wage to 10 bucks an hour. Not enough, but a start, and we will hold him to those words.


Mr. Trump said that Wall Street is dangerous, doing bad things, he wants to re-establish Glass-Steagall legislation. I look forward to working with him....


http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/bernie-sanders-donald-trump/508007/


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Response to think (Reply #173)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 12:06 PM

174. Quit spamming. It's obvious you are making excuses for Bernie backtracking on

his promises. He maligned Hillary for the very thing he is now doing. Reality. Live with it. He was obviously misleading people with $15/hr. Maybe Hillary should have upped it to $20 and made it a real show for the easily misled!

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Response to R B Garr (Reply #134)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 11:50 AM

170. "I wonder if he'll apologize to Hillary for excoriating her realistic 12/hr"

 

Don't hold your breath on that eh?

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 10:53 AM

137. 10? WTF happened to 15?

 

I remember Hillary getting beat up on this site for saying 12, so what the hell?

10 is the new 15 and the MF republicans and orange hitler will take credit for it too.

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Response to workinclasszero (Reply #137)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 10:57 AM

145. Great point about the Repubs taking credit for it! You are on to

something there.

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Response to R B Garr (Reply #145)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 11:06 AM

148. Sure they obstruct and fight President Obama for 8 years straight

 

and tell their dumb ass voters that its the democrats fault for their miserable lives.

Now that those putrid scum are in control the damn democrats will give them victory after victory helping them all the way so the republicans can say, see only republicans are going to do anything for you deplorables!

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 11:26 AM

162. Why is this breaking news?

 

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Response to wisteria (Reply #162)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 11:30 AM

164. Blame game...

Because people on here are still blaming Sanders, the "brosocialists" and socialist dems for the loss...

You know, instead of coming together to work towards reorganizing our party and electing more dems.

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 11:35 AM

166. Breaking News

 

The same people who are 100% behind Charles Schumer's support of Trump's trillion dollar tax amnesty for offshore corporations throw tantrum when Bernie Sanders tries to get the party whose platform wants the minimum wage ABOLISHED ENTIRELY to raise it.

Why you ask? Because, because, because . . . oh yea, because minimum wage workers need to pay the price, NOT big corporate campaign contributors.

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 12:20 PM

176. Good! We need to raise the minimum wage

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 01:55 PM

190. I guess 10 and hour is no longer selling out. It's "pragmatism."

And that's suddenly OK.

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 02:59 PM

195. FUCK!!!!!!! n/t

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 02:59 PM

196. More BREAKING NEWS

 

Trump already said he'd be up for $10.00 minimum back in July - so in reality Bernard is just going along with what his new boss already said he'd be for

Oh Bernard - you sellout phony


Sanders: Trump would allow states to lower the minimum wage ...
politifact.com/...o.../bernie.../sanders-trump-would-allow-states-lower-minimum-wag/
Jul 26, 2016 - Trump's stance on the federal minimum wage – it's currently $7.25 – has been ... Bernie Sanders on Monday, July 25th, 2016 in a speech at the ...http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/jul/26/bernie-s/sanders-trump-would-allow-states-lower-minimum-wag/

Donald Trump says he'd support $10 minimum wage - CNNPolitics.com
www.cnn.com/2016/07/27/politics/donald-trump-minimum-wage/
Jul 27, 2016 - Donald Trump supports setting the federal minimum wage at $10 an hour ... Bernie Sanders assailed Trump on Monday night at the Democratic ...http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/27/politics/donald-trump-minimum-wage/

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 05:06 PM

209. Bernie HAD worked with Hillary. There's no betrayal or double standard here.

 

n/t.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #209)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 06:22 PM

235. Really Ken

You think working with Hillary is the same as working with Donald racist Hitler Trump? Bernie should not do this...hasn't he done enough? Democrats need to refuse to work with Trump period...and fight to take back the Senate during the midterms. It is the only chance to save the courts...working with Trump will only hurt...us you can not climb into bed with such evil. We need to recognize Trump as the danger to our republic that he represents...this is not a 'normal' Republican'.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #235)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 09:04 PM

238. OK. I thought it was a "Bernie is more willing to work with Trump than with HRC" argument.

 

n/t.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #238)

Sat Nov 19, 2016, 12:12 AM

246. As a woman ken I am used to their being a double standard for women

Bernie is indeed more willing to work with Trump...however, that is not my point. Trump is evil. Look at the people he chose for important positions...Flynn, Session etc...you can't play footies so to speak with such evil. Bernie gives Trump an aura of normalcy which should never happen. He is not a 'normal' Republican. He wants to register Muslims, jail gays, deport millions of the undocumented and of course this fun little gem end citizenship by birth in this country...He is the Hitler of our time. We can choose to help Trump keep the 'trains running on time' or we can band together and fight. Bernie needs to stop...he is making Trump seem like business as usual...we don't want to do that.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #246)

Sat Nov 19, 2016, 12:18 AM

247. He was JUST as willing to work with Hillary.

 

Bernie did not object to the idea of a woman being president.

Agreed that Trump is evil.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #247)

Sat Nov 19, 2016, 12:39 AM

258. Hillary is not Trump. Working with Hillary who is on your team good

Working with Trump who wants to register Muslims =evil. We don't do evil. Bernie should know this.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #258)

Sat Nov 19, 2016, 12:41 AM

259. Fine.

 

Everyone posting here is against misogyny, though.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #259)

Sat Nov 19, 2016, 02:30 PM

284. I hope so...after this election; I take nothing at face value.

We need to stop Trump. Bernie should not work with a man who wants to register Muslims...that alone should stop him. It is akin to working with Hitler...not just Bernie...all Democrats...no Democrat will get my vote or any help if they work with Trump.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #258)

Sat Nov 19, 2016, 05:21 PM

297. He campaigned hard to elect Hillary.

 

We wouldn't gain anything by anathemizing Bernie.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #297)

Mon Nov 21, 2016, 08:45 AM

309. Berne fought hard against Hillary in the primary.

As you know, I believe had Bernie not run, we would have President Clinton (the election would not have been close enough to steal). That being said, it seems to many of us that Bernie should fight Republicans and not join with them to give us privatized roads and utilities which is what the infrastructure bill would do. Also, private companies would be used for the work. Sorry, Bernie should fight Republicans as hard as he fought Democrats and Hillary Clinton. Why doesn't he?

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #309)

Mon Nov 21, 2016, 04:29 PM

315. It goes without saying that he fights the right.

 

Treating Bernie as untrustworthy helps nothing. We don't need to go back treating the left as the party treated it in the Nineties.

And we would not have done better if there had been no debate and no passion in the primaries. We can't win when our presentation to the country is bland.

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Response to Ken Burch (Reply #315)

Mon Nov 21, 2016, 06:27 PM

317. When? He has already offered to make nice with Trump.

He fights the Dems and ignores the right.

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Fri Nov 18, 2016, 07:02 PM

236. What the fuck ever Bernie.

Now you're gonna lend him your supposed working class bona fides, after you said the Democratic nominee was a corporate shill?

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Response to Maven (Reply #236)

Sat Nov 19, 2016, 12:50 AM

264. Should we work to get minimum wages increased?

 

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Response to think (Reply #264)

Sat Nov 19, 2016, 12:56 AM

265. We shouldn't work to give Trump credibility.

Nothing would be more harmful to the working class.

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Response to Maven (Reply #265)

Sat Nov 19, 2016, 01:17 AM

268. Improved wages and (possible) jobs from...

a (possible) infrastructure bill would be harmful to the working class?

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Response to SMC22307 (Reply #268)

Sat Nov 19, 2016, 02:32 AM

272. You're a fool if you think repukes in congress will pass those things

Trump will use it as a PR move to show working class he's trying to help and the bad old GOP and Dem establishment wouldn't let it happen. He'll use Bernie the same way he exploited discontent among Bernie supporters who couldn't accept that he lost and blamed a "rigged system".

Bernie isn't helping and neither are you. But of course, as usual, it's all about him.

Oh, and here's an obligatory back at ya.

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Response to Maven (Reply #272)


Response to Post removed (Reply #280)

Sat Nov 19, 2016, 02:41 PM

286. Please read today's TPM about how Trump's infrastructure bill

Is essentially just a tax giveaway to construction companies and doesn't directly fund any infrastructure projects. As opposed HRC, whose infrastructure plan would have directly funded new roads, bridges etc. But she's an awful CorporateDem right?

Speaking of which, did you vote for her?

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Response to Maven (Reply #286)

Sat Nov 19, 2016, 03:45 PM

287. That doesn't answer my question about what the Democratic Party...

plans to do to win back the 60+ Rust Belt electoral votes Hillary lost. Or explain where else in the country those votes be made up going forward.

I'll read it. But you seem to be assuming I approve of Trump's plan. What I do approve of is getting Americans to work. It remains to be seen whether Congressional Dems will roll over, or act like a true opposition party.

I voted, and my Northern Virginia blue bubble carried Virginia. You're welcome.

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Response to Post removed (Reply #280)

Sat Nov 19, 2016, 05:17 PM

296. The one with full employement and a rising LFPR ?! REALLY?! We're swing RWTP's now?!?!

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Response to SMC22307 (Reply #268)

Mon Nov 21, 2016, 08:41 AM

308. Privatized roads and utilities would be very harmful to the working class.

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Response to think (Reply #264)

Sat Nov 19, 2016, 01:14 AM

267. Yes. And for a massive infrastructure bill. (n/t)

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Response to SMC22307 (Reply #267)

Sat Nov 19, 2016, 01:39 AM

270. ... to build toll roads and privatized utilities.

Trump has made it clear he plans to "partner with the private sector" i.e. sell the commons. Whatever Sanders thought he was accomplishing the optics and language of his speech are utterly horrible.

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Response to SMC22307 (Reply #267)

Sat Nov 19, 2016, 12:16 PM

277. For privatized roads - NOPE. Fuck that.

 

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Response to SMC22307 (Reply #267)

Sat Nov 19, 2016, 02:19 PM

279. no we should not work with the evil scum that is Trump...and privatization is not the liberal way.

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Response to SMC22307 (Reply #267)

Sun Nov 20, 2016, 10:03 PM

306. Bernie knows he's proposing privatizing the commons and says nothing?

 

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Response to think (Reply #264)

Sat Nov 19, 2016, 02:20 PM

281. NO. It won't happen and business as usual create a normalcy around Trump that must not happen.

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Sat Nov 19, 2016, 05:16 PM

295. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!SANDERS SAID TEN IS NOT ENOUGH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll wait

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Sat Nov 19, 2016, 08:59 PM

299. Who's all for incrementalism now... GRRRRRRRRR

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Response to JCMach1 (Reply #299)

Wed Nov 23, 2016, 03:12 AM

321. We could have gotten more, if say, Bernie had won the nomination.

 


I don't think Bernie has a problem with incrementalism, or was ever so impractical that he wasn't capable of making compromises. Answer me this. After he lost the primary, did Sanders or did he not, get behind the democratic platform and also campaign for Clinton?

The problem is that interests of the poor and working class have been given short shrift by the democratic establishment, under Hillary and the DLC at large for a long time. That isn't incrementalism. It's regression. We are very much where we are because the democrats stopped having the tools to court the middle class, because that would have meant speaking of class warfare, and their corporate overlords would not have that, not that they themselves believe in it.

so since we wouldn't tell the people the effing truth about why they have so much financial insecurity, they bought the lie that came with the most red meat, and until we change that, they are going to continue to pin their hopes on crazy nationalistic racist tripe.

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Mon Nov 21, 2016, 11:48 AM

313. what happened to 15/hr?

It's impossible to live on $10/hr. minus taxes, Soc. Sec. and Medicare "entitlements" withdrawn, etc. People making $10/hr. are taking home $7-8/hr. and need a second job just to get by or they're bringing in only $60/day.

Let Trump live on that.

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Wed Nov 23, 2016, 09:01 AM

322. BREAKING: Sanders Still Trying to Raise Minimum Wage

What president did you think he was going to have to work with?

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Wed Nov 23, 2016, 10:11 AM

324. Meh...Bernie is Mr. Irrelevant, especially now. nt

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Wed Nov 23, 2016, 11:10 AM

327. Having failed people of ALL races, genders, orientations, religions and races

 

by losing to an orange orangutan, Hillary loyalists now want to show their disappointment by punishing minimum wage workers

NICE





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Response to otohara (Original post)

Wed Nov 23, 2016, 11:15 AM

328. does this right before the nationwide Fight of 15 initiative this weekend?

sickening

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Wed Nov 23, 2016, 12:26 PM

333. Great! Let's legitimize a hostile takeover by white nationalists!

Excellent strategy, Burnie!


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Response to otohara (Original post)

Wed Nov 23, 2016, 04:01 PM

334. "15 or nothing!" "How about 12?" "No!" "How about 10?" "Okay."

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Response to otohara (Original post)

Wed Nov 23, 2016, 06:09 PM

337. Let me get this straight

During the election, $14.99 per hour was a Sin Against God And Society. Now he's willing to accept $10?

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