My confession....I was once Hillary or Bust...

[BooScout]

This is my personal story. I share it this morning because I know others may be feeling down and out right about now.

First let me say that Hillary has always been 'my candidate'. From the first time I noticed her when Bill Clinton first arrived on the national scene, I asked myself...."Well why isn't she running for office"? As the years passed and she rose in the public's conscience, I watched her with admiration and with awe as she achieved the goals she set herself...and as she suffered set backs to those goals.

She fought for Universal Health Care and failed initially, but she never, ever stopped fighting for it. She just kept chipping away and advancing the idea of it in America and because of her and other Democrats who have fought for it over the years we now have the ACA and are that much closer to actual Universal Health Care. I fully believe we will get there one day if we keep fighting the fight.

I have watched Hillary fight for women's issues and rights for decades now. I am damned glad she didn't stay home and bake cookies and have teas. And I even more appreciate that her comment pissed off a lot of people at the time. The idea that a feminist must be polite and politically correct in her fight for women's rights always annoyed the snot out of me. If Hillary's off the cuff comment made folks uncomfortable then more power to her!

When the Clintons left the White House and Hillary moved into the spotlight as she ran for and was elected a Senator for New York, I knew then that one day she would would be back in the White House, not as a supportive spouse, but as President. I think I knew that all the way back to the first time I saw her stand her ground with national reporters in the early days of Bill's campaign. She never backed down and she never backed away. She was different.

Then came 2007 and Hillary announced her intention to run for President. I was just over the moon! As were many women I know and even a lot of men! I thought that finally....in my lifetime we were going to have a woman president and she was the one woman I had always wanted to be president. I didn't just want her for president because she was a woman, but I would be disingenuous if I didn't admit that it was a part of my reasoning. .....but I also knew she was qualified for many other reasons, her work as first lady, a senator, her fight on behalf of women and children's rights and issues, her support of civil rights and her stand on so many issues important to me.

As 2007 moved into 2008, the campaign became heated....and yes ugly at times. I saw Democrats attack each other in ways I had never imagined. The rhetoric was not limited to one candidate or it's supporters.....there was ample vitriol to spread around for one and all. Misogyny and racism abounded.....and damned if it wasn't coming from Democrats! Democrats are supposed to be the party of inclusion. But oh my god it got ugly. How were we ever going to heal the wounds that our words flung at one another had caused?

I will tell you that we Hillary supporters never gave up. Even when Hillary herself saw the writing on the wall and understood that 2008 would not be her year.....many of her supporters, myself included, refused to accept it. Hillary and her supporters had worked damned hard to get the nomination and by god we weren't going to let some guy no one had ever heard of a few short years before steal her thunder!!! Dammit he cheated and we all knew it. He and his supporters had smeared Hillary and unmercifully. We were freaking robbed I tell ya! I would never vote for that Barack Obama! He didn't deserve my vote! Screw him!

Then some folks went PUMA. In the early days of PUMA I confess I considered it......for a split second. I was madder than hell and all I could think was that it would serve the Democrats right if I voted for McCain to get even for them dissing my candidate.

Thankfully that sort of insane thinking didn't last long....with myself or the vast majority of Hillary's supporters. We crawled to our corners and licked our wounds and listened to our hero give her concession speech and then a speech in support of Barack Obama at the 2008 convention. We started thinking about SCOTUS and women's rights and civil rights and LBGT rights and we clued in that if we really and truly gave a damn, we had to support the Democratic Party and vote for Barack Obama.....even if we had to hold our nose and do it.

So I did. I voted for Obama in 2008 and dammed if he didn't grow on me. I may have reluctantly voted for him in 2008, but by the time 2012 rolled around, I voted for him with pride and enthusiasm. I was and am now a huge supporter of President Obama. He is a good and honorable man and I know he wants what is best for America and what is best for us all.

I know I have rambled on here in this post.....but I just wanted to share that I have been where many Bernie supporters are today. I know it hurts. I know it sucks. Believe it or not, I understand, I have been where you are.....but please know this.....you will never walk alone. Democrats, for better or for worse will always have your back. The fight may be slow at times, but Democrats never, ever stop trying. We are the party that gives a damn. Our passion is our strength.

[still_one]

1. Wow!

[apcalc]

2. Excellent post. I was like you in most every way.

You have expressed many of my sentiments as well.

Yes , - know exactly how they feel. I did a bit of work for Hillary as was able, was very enthusiastic. And yes, I too was shocked and angered at the misogyny. In the Democratic Party!

You give your all and have such hopes...and your candidate doesn't win. Deflating , angering, humbling. I totally understand.

From my viewpoint, you just go on...I took my cue from Hillary. She experienced a much greater loss than I! She didn't quit, and heartily endorsed Obama , and worked for his election! You must continue to work for the ideas you believe in, go an alternate route to get there. Don't give up, don't ever give up.

Over and over I have been grateful for President Obama's leadership and presence, fighting for our causes.

Accept the reality that is. Not easy! But keep at it, don't give up,work for what you believe. I learned a valuable lesson. That is how you honor Bernie Sanders, how you keep him going, follow his lead.

[aikoaiko]

3. I think I'm that Bernie supporter you're talking about.

Although I flirted with the idea with a protest vote and sometimes still do when HRC, the party, or HRC supporters anger me, decided to vote for Democratic nominee.

It was about the time of DU's "the primary is over" point. Bravenak made an inpassioned OP about not being antagonistic. I took down my "lesser of two evils is an endorsement" image.

And now I'm just waiting for the GE. I decided to stay in the party instead of declaring myself an independent. I'm tryin my best to ignore the continued Bernie hate and hate toward people who want and express their desire for better.

I feel no joy in voting for HRC and none is required. I will not "boo" her or her supporters for their support of her, either.

I don't expect her to grow on me. I think it's wonderful that a woman will be elected president. That is a historic thing and something personally important to many Amercians - especially girls and woman. I'm glad that POC especially Black Americans fully optimized their collective power in the primary voting booths. These are important milestones on the road to equality.

So I'm waiting for the GE so that I can fucking move on and work for Hope and Change.

[BooScout]

4. That's all anyone can do coming from where you are...

It took me several months between the end of the primaries, the convention running up to the GE. There was so much hurt when I actually cast my vote......but cast it I did and I moved on.

No one was more surprised than myself when I realized I had become an Obama supporter and a true fan of his. I never expected that.

[Victor_c3]

5. I get what you are saying, but I still have a hard time voting for Hillary

First off I will pull the lever for Hillary when I vote, but my vote will be one that is against Donald Trump and not one for Hillary (if that makes sense).

Her Iraq war vote and 10+ years to admit that it was a mistake before giving a half-assed apology for it makes it impossible to accept her. I had a frontrow seat to the war on Iraq. I served as an infantry platoon leader in Iraq from feb 2004 through March 2005. I have blood from that war all over my hands and my conscience. I personally lost 5 soldiers that served under my command and I personally stuffed one of then in a body bag and carried him away from the shit-filled irrigation ditch where he died.

In the years since my time in that war I have slowly been losing everything as a result of chronic severe PTSD. I'm riddled with near constant flashbacks. I suck at suicide so I have a number of suicide attempts over the years. I typically spend most of the summer months locked in a psych ward, I have lost two amazing career track jobs (one as a manager in a shipping facility at Amazon.com and another as a chemist for the department of treasury), and my wife and kids want less and less to do with me. I'm 36 years old (the same age as Chelsea Clinton) and I'm considered totally disabled and in the last phase of my life, retired and unable to work or function independently.

The war was never about giving freedom to the Iraqi people. It was about revenge for September 11th and killing as many Arabs as we could. It didn't matter if Iraq had nothing by to do with September 11th. I quickly realized that in the early part of 2004. For Hillary clinton and her ilk to claim that they didn't realize it was a mistake until nearly 10 years after the fact either is evidence of her incompetence or due to her cold and calculating to protect her personal political career - and even in the latter case she did the wrong thing. I never believed it was a justified war and I was able to see right through the thin veneer put on by the bush administration during the buildup in early 2003 .

So, my vote will be "Hillary Clinton" but it will not be a vote for her, it'll be a vote against Donald Trump. If it becomes obvious that she is as pained by her involvement in the war anywhere close to the pain I experience constantly for me involvement, then maybe my attitude will change towards her.

To me my anger is more than me not just getting to vote for the candidate I wanted. I have never been able to forgive anyone who has had any thing to do with supporting that wasteful and pointless war.

[Tobin S.]

8. Peace, Victor.

[athena]

12. Do you hate every single person who voted for the Iraq war

as much as you hate Hillary Clinton? Your post makes it seem as though it was Hillary Clinton, not George W. Bush, who proposed and carried out that war. She was one of 29 Democratic senators who voted for the war. John Kerry, Joe Biden, Harry Reid, and Chuck Schumer also voted for it. Do you hold them equally responsible for your personal experiences and PTSD?

I have suffered from depression and anxiety for half my life. But it does not give me an excuse to indulge in this kind of hatred of a fellow human being. You should ask yourself whether you would be as demanding of absolute perfection in a candidate named Harold Clinton.

By the way, calling the Democratic nominee "incompetent", and "cold and calculating" is against the TOS. Please edit your message to remove the hate and misogyny from it.

[TCJ70]

14. I...I can't believe I just had to read your post here...

...you're going to sit there and accuse a veteran of the worst military action in modern history of sexism and misogyny because he holds those responsible for his PTSD and other personal losses as a result of the war responsible? Good grief...

[leftofcool]

15. He didn't hold "those people" responsible, only Hillary

My husband is a 2 term Veteran of the Vietnam War. When he is being a sexist, I call him out on it.

[TCJ70]

17. She's the only one running for President this time who voted for it...

...so she's the subject of his post and also happens to be the subject of the OP. There was this part at the end that I'm sure you didn't skip:

"I have never been able to forgive anyone who has had any thing to do with supporting that wasteful and pointless war."

[AllyCat]

75. Yup.

[Victor_c3]

24. However she is the only person running for president that voted for that war

If a man running for president would have voted for the war if be saying the same thing about him.

[emulatorloo]

51. Victor I'm so sorry you are getting this kind of response. I thank you for your service and it

pains me to hear about the severity of your PTSD.

You don't deserve these attacks so know that many people support you.

[AllyCat]

76. I support you too and understand your reasons for voting the way you say.

[Skittles]

81. she had to know it was all bullshit

we did - why didn't she? I think she did know, and voted for it anyways. And yes, I hold them all responsible, including EVERYONE who voted for W to be prez.

[athena]

31. Being a veteran

and suffering from PTSD do not make it acceptable to spew hatred against a woman for daring to be a politician. I know that this is hard for some people on DU to understand. I realize that to many people here, feminism is "old", and women should just smile and accept all the hate and venom thrown against them -- even apologize for causing it!

You can indulge such hatred if you wish. But I refuse to indulge either the hatred, or its apologists.

[Victor_c3]

34. It has nothing to do with what apparatus is between her legs

It comes down to support and voting for the war. A terrible decision is still a terrible decision whether the person who makes that decision has a penis or not.

[TCJ70]

41. So, it's hatred to hold people accountable for their decisions...

...it's going to be a fun 4 years...

[pangaia]

53. That post had nothing to do with Hillary being a woman NOTHING!!

You should delete your post.
It is insulting and disgusting.

[athena]

55. Calling Hillary Clinton "incompetent" is the very definition of misogyny.

The fact that you and others don't see this says a lot about the sad state our society is in.

Being a veteran does not give one carte blanche to engage in hatred. Being a veteran does not make discrimination laudable.

If the poster had attacked any other minority in the same way, people wouldn't be standing up for him because he happens to be a veteran. But hating a woman for making a mistake many intelligent and well-meaning men have made, calling her "incompetent" when she is the most competent candidate in the race, and calling her "cold and calculating" when the same behavior would get a man called "strong and intelligent", are all OK. It is the person who objects to such hate who gets called "disgusting". Sad, but not surprising in the least.

[pangaia]

57. OK. Have it your way.

I'm in Tokyo, just got here a couple hours ago, looking forward to the Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto tonight.

[TCJ70]

58. Didn't realize incompetent was a sexist slur now...

...I'll have to stop saying that Bush was incompetent or I guess I'd be engaging in sexist language.

[gaspee]

59. Agreed

I agree with every single thing you have said in this thread. Just wanted to have your back since no one else seems to.

They can't even see the double standard they hold her to.

They never, ever see misogyny because they have a severe case of male privilege. Women see. Women know. We freaking live it every single day of our lives.

Held to impossible standards.

Every.

Single.

Day.

[athena]

60. Thank you, gaspee.

I really appreciate that. You are courageous. And I am so glad that I'm not the only one who sees the misogyny here.

[tblue37]

78. Sorry, but that just ain't so. Calling someone incompetent is NOT the definition of

misogyny. Women and men both are capable of being incompetent. (I don't mean that Hillary is incompetent, BTW, but merely that calling a woman incompetent if she is incompetent is not misogyny.)

You can argue with someone's assessment about someone else's incompetence, but claiming that calling a woman incompetent is inherently misogynistic is the sort of nonsense that undermines our efforts and makes us look silly.

[SammyWinstonJack]

67. OMG!

[Victor_c3]

84. Speaking of hatred and vitriol for a fellow human....

You have no idea what was unleashed in Iraq and that was facilitated by her. John Kerry and Joe Biden are just as culpable and they are also in hig level positions but they aren't the ones running president, are they? Actually, they aren't even running for public office - the same goes for bush and his buddy. This thread had nothing to do with them to begin with. The OP was clearly about Hillary Clinton. I fail to understand how calling out a female on the same thing I call out a male for is misogyny.

If hate and vitriol is what I'm spewing, then what did people like Hillary Clinton enable to be done to the people of Iraq? It must be nice to be able kind of waive your hands at the whole Iraq mess and point out that it was "so last decade" and that it should reinterpreted or forgotten. The people of Iraq or those who have served and actually were on the ground and participated first hand in the violence aren't so fortunate.

Just the day-in-day-out routine patrols were filled with one thing after another. My battalion (and as far as I could tell my brigade) saw contact about once every 12-14 days. Much of the time it was just a few shots fired or a half-assed IED incident in which things were over before we even realized they started but responding to and seeing the Iraqi on Iraqi violence was crazy. These are some of the larger incidents I remembered, but they just never stopped. A group of gunmen intercept and stop a bus full (48 people) of new Iraqi army recruits and slaughters then all on the side of the road and I get to deal with the cleanup. A car bomb blows up at an ING checkpoint and kills 10 people (and we're stuck filling up garbage bags with the pieces). Three police stations in our area are simultaneously raided by militants, nearly every officer is killed and the buildings are blown up with explosives (and I get to be the first responder to the scene). A group of 20 kids are playing soccer and a carful of militants shoot them all. A ING (Iraqi national guard) checkpoint in our sector is raided during prayer time / shift change and 13 Iraqi army members are slaughtered in cold blood - some of them didn't even move from their prayer position while they had their throats slit. A series of car bombs blow up in the middle of the town that was central to my area of operations and kills more than 50 - we couldn't even figure out exactly how many people were killed. Those are just the stand-out events that I responded to and I'm not mentioning the combat that I was actually involved in. Seeing what people can do to each other is one thing and doing it to people yourself is something totally else.

Do you have any idea what it is like to fire a weapon at a fellow human being and watch them fall in your sights? The democratic nominee doesn't. It's one thing to see it from a number of meters away, but then you get to assess the casualties after the firefight and see precisely what you did. That is hate and vitrol. What a bullet does to a head (the way even a shot above the face caves in and squishes their face or the distinct metallic smell of brains) is hate and vitrol. Finding a kid someone in the platoon you led shot and responding to his frothing sucking chest wound as you wait until your medic is done working on another casualty on is hate and vitrol. Coming "home" from a year of hell in Iraq and being told that you did a good job and being thanked for your service - the very things you are filled with shame and guilt for doing - is hate and vitrol.

I joined the army as stupid and naive kid. I was 17 in 1997 and my parents had to even sign a waiver for me to join. I foolishly thought that our military would be a part of a force to make the world a better place. I was eager to fight to protect our nation and to save people less fortunate than us from exactly the sorts of violence I was sent to perpetrate. Our politicians and government manipulated and betrayed me and people like me. Anyone who had anything to do with allowing that war to happen is complicit. What they did is hate and vitrol.

It's insulting to see that the very people who allowed the war to happen aren't nearly as ladened with the guilt and remorse a soldier who served in that war deals with. Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden, Kerry, et al get to deal with the occasional nuisance their support for the war has brought to their political careers - but at least they got careers. Do you have any idea what it is like to live day-to-day realizing that the only reason it matters that you stay alive is so your wife and kids can continue to subsist on you disability benefits? That is hate and vitrol. As I mentioned above I'm 36 years old and o had a hell of a lot of potential ahead of me when I was 24 and in Iraq. The war that was enabled by our politicians took that from me. What do I get to be now? I'm shaking wreck of a person. I can't even take care of most of the things a normal person can do for themselves. Going shopping in a big store like Kohls or Target? That is a sight worth seeing. Trying conduct a transaction with the guy behind the cash register and shaking and fumbling with my words like I'm retarded in front of my kids is humiliating and embarrassing. Having a complete meltdown in public after your 7 year old daughter asks you "what's the problem? You're only shopping. It's not that hard." Is hate and vitrol. On Father's Day a few weeks back after receiving a slew of loving cards and gifts from your kids you realize that you aren't anything like a father should be is hate and vitrol. Drugging yourself with handfuls of your pills and alcohol so that you pass out in the basement instead of cutting the shit out of your wrists or going for your own neck this time in the house with your kids in it is hate and vitrol. Getting locked up in the psych ward - yet again while your family struggles to understand what is happening to you and wondering why you can't just get beyond something that happened more than a decade ago is hate and vitrol. Fearing the moment that your 5 and 7 year old daughters realize that your military service specifically involved you killing people and then realizing that you are a monster is hate and vitrol.

The hate and vitrol our politicians bestowed on people like me is unfathomable by those who haven't experienced it. Letting anyone who enabled that war to happen to not have be held accountable to the fullest extent possible is immoral and a huge disservice to the Iraqis that were murdered over there, the dead and wounded I served with, and all veterans.

I know this is the internet and you never know who you are dealing with or if they are full of it, but I can (and have in the past) posted the citations I've received which show exactly who I am, the unit I served with, and the dates I was there. If you want, I'll share it here.

[aikoaiko]

13. And your rationale makes your vote a righteous vote.

[dflprincess]

68. ^^^This^^^

I was thinking of how I could respond to Victor but you said it best and all I can do is concur.

[BooScout]

19. I know it's hard....

At the end of the day, it sometimes comes down to very hard decisions....you do whatever you can and then move on.

[Loki]

21. So you would never accept an apology, which she did give?

When you look deeper into that apology and the reasons she voted as she did, you find that the promises made by then President Bush were never kept. So what do you do when your decision was made upon a lie and a broken promise, you apologize. Forgiveness is one of the first steps toward healing, and before any one jumps down my throat, my father served in WWII in a sub in the Pacific theater for 3 1/2 years, where casualty rates were as high as 23%, and my family's service goes back to the Revolutionary War. I saw what PTSD does (not known at the time my Dad came back) and I unknowingly watched my father's reactions to fireworks or loud noises and really not understanding why he could never spend the 4th of July with us when it came time to celebrate. But anger and hatred only festers and wounds never heal. If I had only known what I know today, I could have helped my Dad move through that and find peace. If you blame anyone, blame all of us who stood silently by and allowed that to happen, because, and I use the universal "We" was almost all of the people in the US at that time after 9/11. I wasn't one of them, very few of us were, but we all shoulder the blame because we remained mostly silent and allowed that war to take place for all the wrong, ugly reasons. I hope you find peace Victor.

[helmedon1974]

23. Respectfully disagree

While I respect your opinion about Hillary, I feel the need to point out a few things that are never mentioned regarding the "vote for war" everyone talks about.
1 - I twas not a "vote for war", it was a Congressional Resolution to use military force against Iraq, and most of Congress voted for it. I fail to see how Hillary is constantly singled out and demonized for it.
2 - This Resolution didn't "authorize" Bush to "go to war" with Iraq, although that is how they used it. The vote for the Resolution authorized use of force but Section 3(b) of the War Powers Act (which is the guiding law for waging war) "requires" the use of sanctions and diplomacy "first". The next year we were at war, with Bush ignoring legal requirements and not allowing UN inspectors to complete their search for WMDs. Probably because he knew the had none. This is similar to the Iran situation, which Hillary was instrumental in realizing. We first used diplomacy and tough sanctions, then we reached a deal. This is what was intended with that vote.
3 - Most Americans, mainly Republicans but apparently also Liberals who believe FOX news propaganda, believe Hillary "voted for the war". This is simply UNTRUE. She voted for a Resolution that was also supposed to "restrain" the President's ability to wage war through several prerequisites. Her 2002 Senate floor speech says as much. In the first few sentences "Today we are asked whether to give the President of the United States authority to use force in Iraq should diplomatic efforts fail to dismantle Saddam Hussein's chemical and biological weapons and his nuclear program." She voiced her hesitations as well, "If we were to attack Iraq now, alone or with few allies, it would set a precedent that could come back to haunt us. In recent days, Russia has talked of an invasion of Georgia to attack Chechen rebels. India has mentioned the possibility of a pre-emptive strike on Pakistan." She literally told Bush it wasn't a good idea to attack, "So Mr. President, for all its appeal, a unilateral attack, while it cannot be ruled out, on the present facts is not a good option." This is what she voted for "I believe the best course is to go to the UN for a strong resolution that scraps the 1998 restrictions on inspections and calls for complete, unlimited inspections with cooperation expected and demanded from Iraq - Even though the resolution before the Senate is not as strong as I would like in requiring the diplomatic route first and placing highest priority on a simple, clear requirement for unlimited inspections, I will take the President at his word that he will try hard to pass a UN resolution and will seek to avoid war, if at all possible." Most importantly her final words, "So it is with conviction that I support this resolution as being in the best interests of our nation. A vote for it is not a vote to rush to war; it is a vote that puts awesome responsibility in the hands of our President and we say to him - use these powers wisely and as a last resort. And it is a vote that says clearly to Saddam Hussein - this is your last chance - disarm or be disarmed.
4 - Her deep regret for the vote only makes it more certain that she will be even more careful in deciding such things in the future, especially as President. She is uniquely qualified to make these decisions and has learned from the past. She doesn't so much regret her vote though, as she regrets what Bush did with the power it gave him. There are several reasons Americans and allies alike want to see Bush and Cheney tried for war crimes, Hillary's vote isn't one of them. It's infinitely unfair of you to cast blame for your pain on this ONE woman, and a bit naive to think she doesn't share some of that pain for her role in it. It's quite disheartening to think that an American has such a blind, negative and unrealistic opinion of one of our strongest leaders. 25+ years of negative spin from the right has skewed all perspective on this woman. Just remember.....Hillary didn't send us to war, Bush did. Hillary wanted diplomatic solutions with war as a last resort. That's how it should be if we're going to take an active role in the world's welfare.

[LisaM]

35. This is a great post.

I, too, cannot understand why Hillary is single-handedly being held responsible for war action she did not even want to occur. She is also strong on funding for veterans.

[calimary]

64. Welcome to DU, helmedon1974.

Good points here.

Good points all over this thread. I will say this about her vote on that Resolution - I'd bet whoever we've supported, we all can agree on the sheer audacious in-yer-face and rather insulting irony from those other guys. We have an opposition nominee whose running mate cast the same vote - but in HIS case, it's okay. And the other nominee even says so, shamelessly. It's the most flagrant card-carrying double-standard sexism on glaring display that I can remember seeing, in a long time. And I'm old.

[tblue37]

79. Excellent post. nt

[Tatiana]

30. Bless you, Victor. And thank you for your service.

I understand and respect your feelings. You have a reason to be upset.

However, I would humbly ask you if Donald Trump will do any better, or will he, in fact, be WORSE? You know the answer to that question, right?

I truly believe there will be time of reckoning for those who have misled us. But that time isn't now. We must stop Trump for the good of this country and for the good for the rest of the free world.

Please think about that and consider that you aren't so much voting FOR Clinton as AGAINST Trump. Voting for the Clinton/Kaine ticket is the only option that prevents a certain outbreak of world wide war.

[apcalc]

32. Thank you for your service .

Last edited Tue Jul 26, 2016, 12:37 PM - Edit history (1)

My heart goes out to you, please stay with us and persevere . We need you and your kind.

Yup, the war was a total mess. I thought it was revenge only as well and a sham from the beginning. I want Bush and Cheney tried for war crimes. What they have done to a whole segment of our youth ( you included) is unforgiveable. Again, my heart goes out to you.

Lots of people were misled, Hillary, Joe Biden, John Kerry, , many others...
I do forgive them for that, but I will never forgive Bush, Cheney...

Bless you.

[pangaia]

54. I am not even going to thank you for your service,

because I can not imagine what that even means.

Let me just say that I am sorry for the few disgusting posts here about what you said.

I managed to avoid Vietnam, for whatever that is worth, right or wrong.
I have several friends who were not as lucky as I in that regard. PTSD, Agent Orange, lost limbs, etc etc.... What can I possibly know....?

But, another thing, that is what REALLY gets me, is that Iraq wasn't even about revenge. It was all about MONEY!!!!!! Making money.
It was about 'business opportunities.'
It was, and still is, 'disaster capitalism' at work.


Peace out......

[BlueStateLib]

56. Simple question?

1- Should Saddam been allowed to keep Kuwait?
2- Should the Iraq no-fly zones been eliminated?
3- Should the Iraq sanctions and embargo been lifted?
4- Should diplomacy and the U.N. Weapons Inspectors involvement been abandoned
5- If it was a vote for war, why was Iraq invade by Hans Blix and the U.N. Weapons Inspectors?

Are you just as angry at those who voted Sept. 14, 2001 congressional resolution approving military action against terrorism (S.J. Res 23) or is your anger just for Hillary.

Within 72 hours of the terrorist attacks on September 11, 2001, a White House lawyer had crafted the Authorization for Use of Military Force (AUMF). That law, approved by Congress, gave President George W. Bush the power to start the Iraq War, and ostensibly, the entire War on Terror. The bulk of the law's reach boils down to one of the most powerful sentences ever written, only 60 words of the full law:

“That the President is authorized to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons in order to prevent any future act of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations, or persons."
http://www.businessinsider.com/this-60-word-sentence-started-the-war-on-terror-2014-4

The Iraq war started the summer of 2002 (Downing Street Memo July 23, 2002) long before any congressional 2002 vote. Bush had war authorization from the president's constitutional authority as commander in chief of the military (Article II, Sec. 2), Terms of the 1991 Gulf War resolution they content remains in effect today, Terms of the Sept. 14, 2001 congressional resolution approving military action against terrorism (S.J. Res 23)·

30,000 US Troops Already In Iraq
September 16, 2002

Around 100 US/UK jet fighters 10 days ago bombed and destroyed airbases H-3 and al-Baghdadi in western Iraq, close to the Jordanian border. Earlier, on 5 August, the allied forces destroyed an air defense base in southwest Iraq, near the Saudi border. Reports indicate that the Iraqi forces have withdrawn from the air bases and the command and control centers that were bombed, and have been replaced by US forces which have started repairing the bases to use them later. Before that, US forces, supported by Turkish troops, penetrated northern Iraq and reached a distance of around 30km from Mosul and Kirkuk. The reports also indicate that the US and allied forces are a few kilometers away from Basra, and US and allied forces now occupy more than 15% of Iraqi territory.

The destruction of the first defense lines for the Iraqi forces in the north, south and west and have prepared the grounds for the second move which will see the occupation of Basra, Najaf and Kerbala in the south, and Mosul and Kirkuk in the north. From there, the road will be open to US forces to move towards Baghdad and Tikrit from the west. It is estimated that there are today no less than 30,000 US soldiers in Iraq, mostly in the north
http://aumf.awardspace.com/

.

THE NATION: Open Letter to the Members of Congress
September 25, 2002

An alternative path is clearly available. In the short run it passes through the United Nations and its system of inspections, now more promising than before because Iraq, responding to US pressure, has opened itself unconditionally to inspectors. At the very least, this path should be fully explored before military action--the traditional last resort--is even considered. Such a choice in favor of multilateralism, diplomacy and treaty agreements should be part of a much broader policy of nonproliferation and disarmament of the kind that has already enjoyed great success over the past several decades. Under the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, for example, 182 nations have agreed to do without nuclear weapons. The larger issue is whether proliferation--not just to Iraq but to many other countries as well--is best addressed by military or political means.
https://www.globalpolicy.org/component/content/article/167/34984.html

THE NATION: Half a Victory at the UN
December 2, 2002

In general, antiwar forces in the United States and around the world can claim the recent UN resolution as a partial victory. The resolution does not endorse the use of force; it redefines the Iraq crisis, at least in the international arena, as one of disarmament, not regime change; and it will at least delay a US attack. It provides a powerful tool to fight for US accountability to multilateralism and the UN. But it still reflects the heavy-handed domination of the UN and the rest of the world by the United States and ultimately sets the terms for war.
https://www.globalpolicy.org/component/content/article/167/35067.html

http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/011884.php
http://steveleser.blogspot.com/2015/10/will-bernie-sanders-demagogue-hillary.html
http://aumf.awardspace.com/

[Victor_c3]

85. I will say nearly nothing can justify a war

War brings out the absolute worst in humanity. The violence and hoe it changes people is nothing but evil. I grew believing I was a "moral" or a "good" person but combat and killing changes all of that.

Nothing beats the feeling and rush you get during combat. The anger it releases within you is frightening. The power and satisfaction you feel when you kill a person who was trying to kill you is terribly alarming. However, any positive feelings you might feel are extremely short lived and last no longer than until you see exactly what your weapons do to people and you see the incredible sadness and grief you bring about on a family when they look at you as a cold murderer.

War - in its full reality - is almost never justifiable. The sanitized version civilians see (including the politicians that perpetrate war) is a huge disservice to humanity. If they weren't able to recruit naive kids with tools like patriotism or convince the uninvolved that violence is an option with the same we'd have no more wars.

I love the Black Sanbath song "War Pigs". Sadly, it is all too true.

[shadowmayor]

73. Hang in there Victor

It's not the last phase of your life, just the first (and it'll be difficult at times) phase of the rest of your life. I know you know, but the meds they hand out at the VA are not helpful to many of us. I spent OIL or was it OIF3 in Abu Ghraib prison as a stop-loss, cross-level engineer reservist. What a shit stain and death palace that place was. Jesus on a friggin' crutch, but people who haven't seen, smelled, and tasted war have no clue. The suffering and death we unleashed on the Iraqi people is beyond description. We decimated an entire country and unleashed hell on our way "out".

Voting for a resolution vs voting for war is also a misnomer - anybody paying attention to the Bush cabal knew better. But vote they did - Biden, Clinton, and a bunch of others. Shame on them. And shame on our fawning corporate media. And even more - shame shame shame on so many of our fellow Americans who cheered on March 19 when bombs were dropping on Baghdad in shock and awe as people were pulverized, incinerated and crushed beneath those bombs.

Part of the rush to war was due to the fact that sanctions were about to be lifted, as Saddam had basically complied with all the terms of those sanctions. He also volunteered to leave Iraq to avoid war - we said no. Turkey and Iran offered their help - all to no avail. The USA was hell bent for revenge on a people who had nothing to do with 9-11.

I will vote for Hillary and gladly do so on a number of levels: First - there may be 3 Supreme Court nominations in the next term; Second - I really really like to see Republicans lose; and Third - we may get the Senate back and HRC working with Franken, Warren, and Bernie may accomplish some great things. I will never forget those who supported the war however. Her speech on the Senate floor was in support of the war - not a call to avoid war. We never get perfect candidates, and most overlook the mistakes made by their favorites, but compared to tRump - the stakes are way too high.

What in the hell did the people of Iraq ever do to the people of the United States. And folks - don't bother thanking me for my service - you might get an earful you're not prepared to hear.

[Victor_c3]

82. Thanks for that

I agree, most people haven't a clue as to the full scale of the mess we unleashed over there. The level of violence and intensity of the combat caught me totally by surprise. I remember in the summer and fall of 2003 we were planning to maybe be in a place that was only slightly more intense than Kosovo was in '95-'96 or so. We weren't even sure if we'd even be eligible for the CIB.

I've got tons I can say, but it is apparent you aren't who I'm arguing against. Being thanked for my service, although I understand what people are trying to convey, is something I cringe at every time. If people really knew what I was a part of they'd cross the street and get away from me as fast as they could.

Anyways thanks for your thoughts.

[Ford_Prefect]

6. I hear you BooScout. It is hard to dial down commitment to a cause.

Respectfully, there were 13 million Democrats who disagreed with the party leadership, not merely 1900 in the room in Philadelphia. Some of the noise was for they who could not attend, also.

It is not the first time Democrats were loud during a convention, or vocally passionate over party divisions or disrespectful of honored speakers. I recall when some black and anti-war delegates were harassed and refused credentials by party officials, and some removed from the floor on camera too.

The noise in those rooms was no less, nor was the denial of division in the party handled any better. Last night wasn't pretty, but it was Democratic party politics, if history serves to remind anyone.

I think the threats that duly elected delegates would neither be recognized nor seated, a practice reflecting previous conventions held in the days before the party embraced Civil Rights, probably contributed to the volume level.

I think the way the party publicly fumbled the DWS situation and removal did not help. I think the firing of only one official over what was clearly the action of many rang just a bit hollow.

I think that the 14 previous months of being told we are less than correct Democrats may have something to do with that noise.

The abject denial of some of the proposals in the platform committee certainly did something to amp things up.

I think the party had a very long time prior to the Convention to act in ways that were more worthy of respect in the hall.


All that said I also think it is time to put the noise down and listen. I think that the Convention hall is not the place to advocate for 3rd party voting. I think the speakers should be heard, respectfully.


I also think that the party needs to listen, respectfully, too. Promises made today and this week will need to be kept, I think.

[AllyCat]

77. Don't dial it down! Vote for progressives in down-ticket races!

Hold a President H. Clinton's feet to the fire when issues come up that are near and dear to Americans struggling to get by!

[Cha]

7. What a brilliant piece, Boo! I'm all

Verklempt now!

I'm so glad you came around to liking President Obama.. I had a similar evolution for Hillary. She really impressed me at the Convention.. I was crying then, too, when she nominated Sen Obama. I'll never forget New York with her people at the convention.

When he chose her for his SOS.. I rooted for them both.. I was amazed after the contentious primary how well they worked together for our country.



Awesome, empathetic OP.. Mahalo!

[BooScout]

46. Aloha my friend!

Speaking of crying. I cried during Michelle's speech! I love that woman!

[sheshe2]

65. Did you watch tonight?

I cried my eyes out tonight, Boo. The speeches from women of the House and Senate. The moms from BLM. All the other women standing up. Awesome.

I was not here in 2008, yet was for Obama, from day one. Never hated her, just wanted Obama then.

Hugs~

[BooScout]

80. I watched up until a few minutes before Bill's speech tonight...

...Then I had to go to bed since it was pushing 3 am here. I just finished watching Bill's speech on YouTube this morning. I loved all of it!

[sheshe2]

86. That is the beauty of the internet...

We can catch what we miss. Looking forward to tonight.

[Cha]

69. Aloha, Boo!

Yes, most definitely sobbed during Michelle's beautiful speech from the heart!

[StevieM]

48. I remember when Arkansas united behind Obama, at her request, and gave Obama all their delegates.

That was a very powerful moment which is sometimes overshadowed by the moment when Hillary stopped the vote and nominated Obama.

[Cha]

70. Oh, thanks for that reminder, Steveie!

[Laser102]

9. I was the same. Hillary or nobody. I cried, yelled at the unfairness, sulked, then voted for Obama.

He has been so amazing that the song by the Stones comes to mind. "You can't always get what you want, but sometimes, you just might get what you need." I am going to miss him and his family.

[BooScout]

28. That song....

Went through my head so often back in 2008.

I am going to miss him as well.

[PatSeg]

10. I hope that everyone who is angry

and hurt today, reads this post. When voters are very committed to a candidate, it is very hard to get over losing. It is like someone died and you want to blame someone. It is also easy for the winners to cry "Sore losers" to the opposition, which only feeds the anger.

My feelings about both candidates this time around have been very mixed, but now I am starting to get a little bit excited and expect that excitement to grow over the coming weeks.

To those who have been harsh in their criticism of Bernie supporters, it would be better to back up and let them work through their loss. When one is very committed, they cannot always just brush themselves off and move on. They need a little time.

[bekkilyn]

11. Lots of positives at the DNC!

I am a Bernie supporter, though never Bernie or Bust. From the beginning, I had the intent of voting for whomever ended up as the Democratic nominee. Though I would have preferred Bernie, I will be happily casting my vote for Hillary Clinton in November. I am excited by the idea of finally having a female President of the U.S. Her decision to work together with Bernie to create the Democratic platform was what made me finally decide to vote *for* her rather than just #neverTrump.

Last night there was a good bit of initial rudeness from some Bernie delegates, it's true. I've seen a number of posts on this site very unhappy about it and about the first night of the DNC as a whole.

But I don't see a reason to be unhappy at all, and in fact, after sleeping on it, I'm thinking the bad behavior of those Bernie delegates can also be seen as a positive as well, even for Hillary supporters.

What I saw last night (as opposed to much of what I saw at the RNC) is that practically everyone there has enthusiasm, energy, and PASSION for being there, regardless of which candidate they supported in their hearts! At the RNC, a lot of people didn't even bother to show up and all the empty seats were noticeable to me. I think a few rude delegates isn't too much of a price to pay for a convention that shows so much excitement from people rather than just everyone being there half-heartedly out of duty.

Yes, there will be a few who will be so bitter that they will vote for Trump or for one of the irrelevant 3rd party candidates, but we shouldn't let a few (and I mean a *few*) spoilsports ruin what has started out so strongly to be a great convention! I had quite a lot of (good) crying moments last night rather than having to keep turning off the stream because my stomach was turning so much as I had to do while watching the RNC. Go Bernie! Go Hillary! Go US!

[calimary]

63. Welcome to DU bekkilyn!

WUNNNNderful day to be here! I'm a longtime Hillary supporter. But look how much we have in common already, besides kicking this terrific OP! I bet you and I were both crying at some really beautiful moments last night - AND today - at the same time. I bet there were plenty of others here doing likewise.

:groupcry: (!)

[bekkilyn]

88. Awwww thanks!

(Late with my reply as I'm still figuring out how to best keep up with new replies to things!)

There's definitely more in common than different! Heh, it would probably be easier to keep up with the times when I *wasn't* crying during some part of the convention.

So many beautiful moments!

[brer cat]

16. Couldn't be better stated, Boo!

...you will never walk alone. Democrats, for better or for worse will always have your back. The fight may be slow at times, but Democrats never, ever stop trying. We are the party that gives a damn. Our passion is our strength.

Thank you for this. It is healing, and shows a path forward. We are all in this together, and while we may not form a more perfect union, together we can and we must "...continue the long march of those who came before us, a march for a more just, more equal, more free, more caring and more prosperous America." {Barack Obama, March 18, 2008}

[treestar]

18. K&R

[Loki]

20. Thank you Boo

There are so many of us who have walked this very same road, but you have put it into words beautifully.

[Skinner]

22. Great post.

Thank you.

[MoonRiver]

25. Beautifully written! Bravo Boo!

[redstatebluegirl]

26. Excellent post!!!!

[LAS14]

27. K & R

[writes3000]

29. Such a thoughtful and honest post. Thanks, Boo.

[Orsino]

33. Good stuff.

We often focus on the who instead of on what we want to accomplish. That's a mistake, IMO, except in cases where the who is also an important what. Electing the first black president, the first female president, or the first Jewish president...these were and are in themselves goals worth pursuing.

Having a back-up plan is always good.

[barbtries]

36. this is a great post.

i think the situations are truly analogous, and you've shared it from a perspective that is honest and not condescending.

[DemonGoddess]

37. K&R!

[The Second Stone]

38. I was for Hillary Clinton in 2008 and was disappointed when Obama

got the nomination, but as soon as the outcome was clear, I gave him my support (and dollars) and was overjoyed when he got elected. He turned out to be even less liberal than I suspected, but he is a truly a first class human being.

[one_voice]

39. great post!!

K&R

[NastyRiffraff]

40. I wish I could rec this 1,000 times

but I'll settle for one, and a

Well done, Boo!

[BooScout]

42. I dunno how ya did it....

But you managed to rec it twice! Ya gliched DU! Well done!

[NastyRiffraff]

44. I dunno how I did it either!

But I'm glad

[BooScout]

45. Me too!

[Sheepshank]

43. Well said and well done

yes, this is truly very analogous to the hurt surrounding the Bernie Supporters.

[zenabby]

47. My confession

I was Hillary or Bust in 2008 and voted McCain in 2008. Obama grew on me and I voted Obama in 2012. I'm not proud of it, but it did happen.

[StevieM]

49. I also took awhile to warm up to Obama. The compromise I reached about voting for him

was to say that I would vote for him in the 2008 general election, but vote against him in the 2012 Democratic Primaries.

I wasn't expecting Hillary to run in 2012. I didn't even think she would run in 2016. I just thought that someone might challenge Obama in 2012 and I planned on voting for them.

By the time 2012 rolled around I was a big Obama supporter.

[pnwmom]

50. Thank you, BooScout! n/t

[sarae]

52. Thank you for your post.

[calimary]

61. Very proud to give you the 100th rec, Boo!

What a great essay! Superb! We've seen some amazing times, and dealt with some earth-shaking events, haven't we!

Thank You so much for posting this for us. A day I hoped I'd live to see, but wasn't sure would ever come. It finally happened TODAY. What an afternoon! I'm still in a state of disbelief.

[LostOne4Ever]

62. I been mentally preparing myself for supporting The democratic nominee since the NY primary

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=#00009d]But, I am a loyal person and I was going to stick with Bernie till either the convention where Clinton went from presumptive nominee to official, or till Bernie conceded the race.

So, I was ready the moment Bernie endorsed Hillary a few weeks ago. In the end, I know the democratic party is the ONLY way to advance the causes I believe in, and I care more about promoting my causes than any one person.[/font]

[pokerfan]

66. Sarah Silverman sums the entire primary up for me...

Seriously, this describes my path...

Like Sarah, I started with Hillary:

But the primary is over:

So get over it:

[That Guy 888]

71. Did the DNC secretly back Obama while publically denying it?

Hmm... not quite the same.

[liberalnarb]

72. Holy crap you're awesome, BooScout!

Seriously. You took a topic I thought no one on this site could talk non-negatively about and made it positive.

[Moonwalk]

74. I'd like to add that we should remember that Hillary wasn't forgotten by Obama....

Obama made Hillary secretary of state, a very powerful position where she got to really strut her stuff.

A lot of people act like Bernie not getting to be president means he'll be out of power. But he remains a Senator, his influence in the Senate and with Democrats increased 100 fold because of this. He is no longer just the "Senator from Vermont." And it's altogether possible that Hillary will do as Obama did, and give Bernie a position in her government where he CAN make real many of the proposals he put forward.

Being president is the ultimate position of power, yes, but we should remember that Obama hasn't been able to do half of what he wanted to do because the Congress has been blocking him. And the Supreme Court hasn't been much help either. So Bernie still has power—more power than ever if the congress goes blue. And if with Hillary in office, working with Congress rather than at odds with it, imagine what can be accomplished. Imagine the new Supreme Court Judges they can install!

Our government is NOT a dictatorship and we are not voting for a king. It may be profoundly disappointing to not get the president of your dreams. But that doesn't mean your candidate has lost any and all power to make a difference. Not if that person still has an active seat where his voice, vote and efforts can create laws or change policy.

[David__77]

83. Nose holders are parts of coalitions.

Thanks for your story.

[Spazito]

87. What a great OP!

It mirrors what so many have felt at some point or another when someone has put their heart and soul into getting their candidate elected and it doesn't happen. It is hard to accept at first but, as you say, when we look at the bigger picture, look at what is at stake if we choose to either stay home, vote for a spoiler or even think about voting for the other party, there is no question, in the end, on what is most important even if it means holding one's nose to do what's right.

Thanks for posting this, I really appreciate it.