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[Old Codger]

1. Like all of them

They are fodder for the masses and totally meaningless

[emulatorloo]

2. Pro-abortion rights groups give Kaine nod of approval

Nice try, but nobody's gonna buy your half-truth hit piece.

---------------


http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/288952-pro-abortion-rights-group-give-kaine-nod-of-approval


Major pro-abortion rights groups moved quickly to applaud Hillary Clinton's vice presidential pick Sen. Tim Kaine, looking past his more conservative opinions on the issue to downplay what is seen as a big weakness on the left.

NARAL Pro-Choice America sent out a statement immediately after Clinton announced Kaine as her running mate, acknowledging some of his past remarks about personal opposition to abortion and record before reaching the U.S. Senate.


"While Senator Kaine has been open about his personal reservations about abortion, he’s maintained a 100% pro-choice voting record in the U.S. Senate. He voted against dangerous abortion bans, he has fought against efforts to defund Planned Parenthood, and he voted to strengthen clinic security by establishing a federal fund for it," NARAL President Ilyse Hogue said in the statement.
She said that voting for abortion rights despite personal beliefs underlines the group's message.

"This is core part of what it means to be pro-choice – supporting everyone’s individual decision making," the statement read.

As buzz grew about Kaine as a potential VP pick, NARAL was silent on its stance on the Virginia senator, along with several other abortion rights groups. But the issue was seen as a potential hurdle for Kaine — especially in terms of the Clinton ticket locking in progressive voters that may have favored Bernie Sanders in the primary.

"When he was Governor, Tim Kaine took positions we disagreed with and actively campaigned against. We’re pleased that since then, his votes and public statements have been consistently in favor of trusting women to make our own decisions," Hogue said. "And as with all of our allies, we weren’t afraid to voice disagreement with him then and we will not be afraid to disagree, if needed, with him as Vice President."

The group said that it trusts Clinton's decision and lauded her "robust agenda when it comes to preserving and expanding reproductive freedom and justice."

Planned Parenthood President Cecile Richards made a brief appearance on MSNBC Friday night to give Kaine her approval, echoing NARAL's statement.

Richards said Kaine holds a 100 percent rating on Planned Parenthood's scorecard for his Senate record and said "he’s been not only a solid vote but really an ally."

When host Rachel Maddow referenced his 2005 stance as governor of Virginia, which aimed to reduce abortion by enforcing existing laws, encouraging abstinence-focused sex education and adoption and opposing partial-birth abortion, Richards said she believes he has "evolved" on the issue.

She criticized GOP nominee Donald Trump's vice presidential pick, Indiana Gov. Mike Pence, who has staunchly fought against Planned Parenthood and abortion in his state.

"It is very clear that Secretary Clinton and Tim Kaine are where the American people are," she said. "We have a ticket we can really be proud of and stand behind."

Last week, Kaine sought to reassure Democrats about his stance on the issue, telling CNN: "I have a traditional Catholic personal position, but I am very strongly supportive that women should make these decisions and government shouldn't intrude."

---------

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

8. So, you agree with the policies?

[emulatorloo]

14. I'm pro-choice and not interested in disingenuous half-truth hit pieces

Or the kind of manipulative bullshit your poll represents.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

21. Where's the 'half truth" in his own, unedited, statement?

[emulatorloo]

29. You conveniently 'forgot' his pro-choice voting record. That's what makes your post half true.

Go try to fool somebody else with your intellectually dishonest smears.

We're done until the next time you attempt this nonsense. And knowing your posting history as I do, there no doubt in my mind there will be a next time.

[Cattledog]

3. Kane has a 100% rating score from PP and NARAL

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

9. That wasn't the question. Do you agree with those policies?

[glennward]

4. I simply do not have a problem with trying to reduce abortions so long as the option to have one is

the law of the land. I don't like abortions either but I would never deny the right of any woman to have one. Everything in his statement is acceptable to me. He isn't forcing anyone to not have an abortion.

[OKNancy]

5. Kaine votes pro- choice. all I need to know.

He lives his belief but doesn't push it off on me or others

[MyNameGoesHere]

6. I have a tree full of cherries that need picking

Would you mind since you're in the mood?

[Doodley]

7. I do not fully agree with him, but IMO his position Trumps any Republican

[MichiganVote]

10. As a now VP candidate who does not determine policy on abortion in any state,

I fail to see the relevance of this. Enlighten me.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

12. Simple question. Do you agree with those policies?

[MichiganVote]

16. No thank you, show me the relevance as this is at best a hypothetical.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

20. It's a policy statement.

It's not a hypothetical statement. And, the question is do you agree with the policies.

[MichiganVote]

22. Yeah, I get its a policy statement without a link. But what is its relevance?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

24. There is a link.

I think abortion rights are relevant in any political discussion.

[MichiganVote]

27. There is a link to a web page re: abortion, not to a policy page.

The web page purports to have included quotes one of which indicates a support of Roe v. Wade by Kaine---in 2005. So what is the relevance of this poll today re: Kaine and perhaps share whether or when he created policy in his state.

[MichiganVote]

33. Why does the link page you do provide have a contact source for Kaine's senate page???

What exactly is this for?

[LuvLoogie]

11. Tim Kaine rocked it today, didn't he.

[greatlaurel]

36. Yes he did!

[Nye Bevan]

13. You should add an option to agree with some of the points and disagree with others.

For example, just using the term "partial birth abortion" is playing into the other side's hands. That term was invented by the Republicans and is not medical terminology. On the other hand I have no problem with ensuring access to women's health care and to promoting adoption.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

17. You just did. Do you agree with the policies?

Including partial birth abortions?

[Squinch]

38. Except if I am not mistaken, the policy he is advocating with respect to

partial birth abortions represents an expansion of the current abortion rights available in VA.

Honestly I have no problem with any of them. The abstinence education is bullshit and proven not to work, but if he is serious about ensuring access to contraception, there are worse things than telling a 14 year old to wait a little.

[prarie deem]

15. Not a black and white agree or disagree for me

I don't like people telling women in any instance what they can or cannot do with their own bodies. Promoting adoption smacks of trying to coerce a woman into what you want her to do. He is a Catholic and personally opposed to abortion. Good for him - I won't make him have one. If I decide to, then please accord me the same
right to make my own decision. I am all for reducing abortions with education and contraception - but I oppose "education" for pregnant women which I think is code for intimidation.

That said, he is far better than the Repub position of we own your womb.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

18. It seems pretty black & white to me.

I disagree with any policy limiting a woman's right to abortion.

[Squinch]

39. Which of the policies named limits a woman's right to abortion?

I am particularly impressed by his advocating getting rid of the bullshit building code laws. Those are responsible for more limitation to access to abortions than probably any other policy or law. I'd vote for him just for that.

[Lisa D]

19. Kaine was great today!

Cecile Richards gave him a great endorsement!

[DemonGoddess]

23. The only part of abortion rights that is black and white

is whether or not a woman has the right to choose what to do with her own body. This poll is irrelevant.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

25. There is an option for "I don't care about policy statements"

[DemonGoddess]

26. That's the thing. I DO care about policy, but nothing you listed is relevant

certainly not to Senator Kaine as he is today, or as he has voted IN the Senate.

[annavictorious]

28. "Source: 2005 Gubernatorial campaign website Kaine"

We've seen lots of Democrats evolve on lots of social issues over the past 11 years. Reducing the number of abortions is a laudable goal and it certainly is not the same as limiting reproductive rights.

Personally, I'm especially excited that we have a ticket committed to addressing the problems of gun violence in this country.

[MohRokTah]

30. Pass, Push Polls are blatantly dishonest. eom

[Squinch]

31. OK, what am I missing?

Adoption? Great. A lot of my family has been built through adoption.

Ensuring women's access to health care, contraception and economic opportunity? Great. Period.

Abstinence focused education - bullshit, but if you are being honest about access to contraception, I'm willing to compromise.

Ensuring partial birth abortions are available to women if their lives are in danger? If I'm not mistaken, that's an expansion in abortion rights with respect to the current Virginia law on partial birth abortion.

Ditching the bullshit building standards laws that have done more than anything else to limit access to abortions? Fabulous. A reason to vote for him.

In the end, I really hate the abstinence education part, but I'm good with the rest of it.

[joshcryer]

32. What's to disagree with?

[demmiblue]

34. More:

He backs a parental consent law in Virginia which has a judicial bypass. He supports a ban on "partial birth abortions so long as there is an exception for the life and health of the mother". He also favors an "informed consent provision" in Virginia which requires abortion providers to "give women information about a whole series of things, the health consequences, et cetera, and information about adoption."

"Those, I have supported," said Kaine. "But I don't think ultimately we ought to be criminalizing abortion."

While I am happy that he received 100% scores from Planned Parenthood and NARAL, ratings don't always illustrate the whole picture. There are a lot of flashing warning signs in his statements (some things I expect to be championed by right-wingers). It is sad to see how many people who claim themselves to be staunch pro-choice advocates accept it without a second thought simply because they think it is a slam on the campaign. Lately, I can't say that I am surprised, though.

[MichiganVote]

35. No links for readers.

[CharlotteVale]

37. I could not disagree more, but then I believe a woman has a right to control

her own body 100% of the time.

[Squinch]

40. Which of the policies named in the OP limits a woman's right to control her own body?

I don't really see any.

My least favorite is the abstinence education for teens, because it has been proven ineffective, but he is promising access to contraception at the same time, so there are worse things than a 14 year old hearing that they can wait a year or two.

[CharlotteVale]

41. Are you kidding me? Partial birth abortion ban limits a woman's righ to control

her own body. It's nobody's damn business except a woman and her doctor's when she has an abortion. Nobody's.

[Squinch]

43. I agree, but his proposal for an exemption for the life of the mother, represents

an EXPANSION on the current VA abortion laws, which don't have that exemption.

And the set of laws that has done more to limit women's access to abortions than any other is the bullshit building facility laws. He is saying that he wants to see all those done away with. Thousands of abortion clinics all over the country have closed because of those laws, and he is saying get rid of those laws.

(I presume that this statement was made before the SC ruled against those laws a week or so ago)

[progree]

42. "Enforcing the current Virginia restrictions on abortion"

I'd have to know what those were before I really decide. Probably a lot hiding under that rock that I wouldn't be happy about.

[Squinch]

45. Well, but he's the governor. He takes an oath to uphold the laws. If I were to

make up a wish list of things I would like to see with respect to women's health, it would be pretty much that list, with the exception of the abstinence education.

His position on partial birth abortions is an expansion of the existing VA laws on partial birth abortions.

He advocates getting rid of the bullshit building standards laws, which have taken away more women's access to abortions than any other set of laws or policies.

He advocates ready access to contraception and healthcare.

He advocates for adoption, which is just as legitimate a choice for a woman as any other, if it is what she wants, and which is a very convoluted and difficult process.

So even with the "enforce current laws" language, what is not in that list with respect to women's healthcare rights that you would want to see?

It really pretty much covers it for me.

[progree]

46. Fine, but I'd still want to see what Virginia's restrictions on abortions are, or were at that time

before I sy I'm happy with those restrictions. Hopefully those don't include admitting priveleges or some shit like that. Or waiting periods (that informed consent shit). And though he may be required as chief executive to enforce existing law (despite the fact that every state's law books are filled with archaic and long ago forgotten and unenforced statutes), there is nothing preventing him from saying he will work to change some of those restrictions.

[Squinch]

47. In this statement, saying he will work to change the restrictions is exactly what he is doing.

[progree]

48. How do you know? How do you know what restrictions Virginia had on the books in 2005?

[Squinch]

49. He wants to get rid of the building restrictions. That is pretty much the thing that has

made abortion virtually unavailable to women.

If you say you will uphold a woman's legal right to an abortion, take away the building restrictions, and if you commit to giving women access to contraception, healthcare and late term abortion, what other restrictions can there be?

[progree]

51. Long waiting periods that make it harder for poor women. Requiring admitting privileges for doctors

which is just as much a clinic-killer as surgical building standards.

That insulting informed consent crap, like a woman has to be held up for 2 or 3 days and forced to view sonograms and lectured about their decision (very expensive for poor women who have to travel long distances).

Now I don't know what Virginia's informed consent and waiting periods was in 2005. Or the specifics of the informed consent. Nor do I know if they required admitting priveleges for doctors at nearby hospitals -- But those things are amongst the kinds of restrictions that some states have.

Parental consent, which he favored / favors. (I'm on the fence on that one, depends on the age)

And banning late term abortions except to protect the health and the life of the mother is still banning most late term abortions.

[Squinch]

53. Oh, I see what you mean. Yes, I would agree with you on those.

[wyldwolf]

44. Fortunately the VP will never make that decision.

[ismnotwasm]

50. Hell no

But he votes pro-choice-THAT is what matters. Next.


My very Catholic oldest daughter, whom I love and respect beyond words, holds the same stance as Kaine did. I don't agree with her either.

[renie408]

52. I don't understand the point of this.

If you are trying to drum up anti-Clinton/Kaine sentiment, aren't there more direct ways to go about that?

Referencing an 11 year old policy statement seems like a weak effort. He has since voted pro-choice. He represents the views of most people in the middle, without whom we lose this election. Most people are anti-abortion and pro-choice.

[RBInMaine]

54. Enough of this crap! Kaine is the VP pick and damn good one. Like it or LUMP it.