2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumI am like Elizabeth Warren. My family has a long-standing Native American ancestry story.
My great-great grandmother. The stories about her, first hand from my grandmother and father, were a large part of my childhood. She was a good healer who used root medicine for illnesses and "talked the fire out of a burn." She saved my father's life twice, once when he had pneumonia as an infant and once when he dumped boiling water over himself. There was a romantic, magical element to the stories but also some damn smart root medicine, the kind that grannies often knew back then. I loved the stories but my grandmother's generation was embarrassed and wanted to hide that heritage.
We traced our ancestry and that grandmother's father is a complete dead end in documents. His last name is common among the tribe we supposedly descend from. If he's not NA then he sure doesn't show up on any white census or documents.
I took a DNA test and no NA ancestry shows. My research says that's possible, given the dilution and the fact that it's my paternal line. But it's also possible it's a romantic legend with no reality.
My oldest son was born with pronounced Mongolian Spots, which show up now and then on babies of Native American ancestry. Nothing else in our ancestry search supports it and we don't have any reason to believe there were any woods colts in the mix.
So it's fraught. Lots of people have lots of stories, and they're not cut and dried. But one thing is. Donald Trump is a racist, misogynist pig who'll look for a supposed weak spot and pry at it without a hint of conscience or consideration about who he is insulting, harming or encouraging to do the same. He's a bully who counts on toadies to cheer on his nasty attacks, and if we don't all join together to stop him that's the kind of president he'll be, and we will be hated the world over for electing him.
DemonGoddess
(4,640 posts)from his grandfather's mother, is what I think his mom told me.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)I am a registered tribal member but I look about as white as white can get. My sister who is 18 months younger looks NA and we have the same blood quantity. Donald Trump is NOT the arbiter of who is and who is not Native American. He's just another white asshole pissed off because NAs actually make money from their casinos.
nolabear
(42,004 posts)It's SO unfair! He pays taxes that they don't because they have a reservation!
whistler162
(11,155 posts)They com ein all genetic make ups.
pandr32
(11,642 posts)Binkie The Clown
(7,911 posts)And of being related to Andrew Jackson, and of being mostly Irish (I do have an Irish surname).
Later, when I researched the family tree I found all three family legends were false.
My "Native American" great, great grandmother was Jamaican born in Africa, and "being descended from Andrew Jackson" turned out to be descended from a man who worked for Andrew Jackson for a time. And my Irish ancestry amounts to 1/32, the same amount as my 1/32 African ancestry. The rest is mostly Scandinavian and French.
nolabear
(42,004 posts)The newest favorite story is that my grandfather's original American ancestor was "George the Jacobite," who was captured and shipped off to the colonies by the British. That we can document. It makes watching Outlander all the more fun.
Tikki
(14,563 posts)I share some land with 4 generations in my great grandmother's name on the Rosebud Reservation.
My yearly share is about $17.00.
My pride in being part Sioux and daughter of the Lakota is priceless.
Tikki
nolabear
(42,004 posts)There's a lot else in my ancestry that I have found that's awesome and some that's hysterically funny. Most funny is the tendency of my ancestors to be on the losing side of a war. I have a Jacobite, a Tory and a Confederate.
After that I think they managed to stay out of those things.
flyingfysh
(1,990 posts)The story was that my grandmother was 1/4 Cherokee, by her father's side. Her dad disappeared when she was very young, and reappeared once many years later, having changed his name, and told them he had found out that he had been adopted, and had gone back to the original name.
I found a group of people in the Dawes Rolls (the official government census of the "Five Civilized Tribes" who are apparently my relatives. That family had a *lot* of kids. But the documentation about them them has a very large rubber stamp, diagonally across the page: "REJECTED". It seems that they tried to be recognized as Chickasaws, and were turned down. They also tried Choctaw, and were turned down there. They had tried Mississippi Choctaw, same result. there is no mention of Cherokee in this set of documentations, but it appears that my relatives were trying to get land that they were not entitled to. I suppose lots of family trees have scoundrels somewhere. They may have claimed Cherokee later.
Finally, I tried a DNA test. The result: no NA ancestry. It appears that the Dawes Commission was correct to reject that family (my relatives). If the family claim had been correct, n y 1/16 NA ancestry would have been obvious in a DNA test.
d_r
(6,907 posts)we have the story of the Cherokee ancestor in our family. The family tree on ancestry.com shows two lines. The one with more information goes back to Charles Harmon, nicknamed Mag the Grey Horse, who certainly had an interesting life from documents available. Anyway, I would never think about "claiming" that ancestry, I wasn't raised in that culture and it just wasn't my experience. I find the Cherokee culture wonderfully rich and interesting, but I look at it from the outside.
gordianot
(15,259 posts)My Uncle was variously identified as oriental and Native American he may have been a throw back. It showed up in my DNA test also like most people of European descent there is Neanderthal remnants.
Even if you have Native American DNA so what, it proves nothing you are not a Native American. Ancestory tests are pure bull shit.
Bad Thoughts
(2,541 posts)I was young, and I cannot remember if he said we were Navajo or Puebloan. He explained a lot of things that just became a jumble. Over time I forgot or dismissed the story. It seemed peripheral to what was more obvious: being Nuevomexican, the descendants of Mexican citizens of New Mexico. Those was almost no chance that there was no input of Native American genetic material. However, it seemed that romanticizing that small part of our makeup obscured the larger part of our makeup.
Last year my sister asked me to do one of the genetic tests. It came back 40% Jewish, 30% Hispanic, 20% Scandinavian, and 5% Native American. So my grandfather's claim was accurate.
What does it mean to me? Nothing. Those other things are significantly more important. I'm more informed by all of them more than that sliver of Native American blood. I don't even know if the blood quantum is important to Navajo or Pueblo communities. Indeed, not being part of a Native American community makes the claim of being Native American rather trivial.
nolawarlock
(1,729 posts)But that just because, coming from a religious background that includes a lot of New Ager types, everyone and their mother runs around claiming native american ancestry. I used to wonder how offended actual tribal people got at that. One person I know was constantly talking about her Native American wisdom and then she took that Ancestry.com test and told everyone it wasn't possible and it shook her entire life to the core. Now she spends her social media days talking about her Irish ancestry. Mind you, I guess folks had no way of knowing back when Elizabeth used that and she probably just accepted a family story but, nowadays, it takes more than a story. I don't believe she lied but I can't say I'm not happy that these DNA tests are culling the "tribes," so to speak.
applegrove
(118,915 posts)a few myths I was able to prove wrong using the Internet. The most fantastical story turned out to likely be true. Gotta love modern science and technology.
raven mad
(4,940 posts)All my grandparents on both sides came from Ireland. Yet! My daughter has 1/8 Cherokee.................... LOL! Her dad's side.
nolabear
(42,004 posts)Elizabeth Warren has done what many of us whose family stories have done, looked at forms and thought about that smidge of background that makes you interesting and that you're proud of. Lots of our beliefs have been incorrect or surprisingly correct. Later it might take on some kind of significance we could not have imagined when we acted on that conviction. The only important thing about this whole question is how it demonstrated what a narcissistic madman will do to get what he wants.
I love the stories though. My NA ancestry is still up in the air but my DNA test DID turn up 3.1% Neanderthal!
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)I like to think the stories are correct, as they may well be, even if they were a great embarrassment at one time.
A propos of not much, an elderly neighbor in California was one of 10 children who grew up on a hardscrabble farm in the mountains of Appalachia, a very poor area. Her mother raised all 10 children to adulthood, didn't lose one, dosing them all as she felt appropriate with medicines she made herself from native plants. She, of course, had been taught by her mother and others, and going back farther much of this information no doubt was originally learned from local Native Americans.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)My father is Russian and my mom is French and Puerto Rican. Wonder if my NA roots trekked from Russia into Eskimo territory.
nolabear
(42,004 posts)I had an ancestor who came from Holland and worked at Oxford University as a bookbinder. I thought that was pretty cool.
There's a group called something like GEDmatch (I could have that slightly off) that can break down the info you get back from 23&Me and other sites and give more detailed info. I've never pursued it though.
Hekate
(91,020 posts)Robert Frost wrote a poem for John F. Kennedy's inauguration that begins: The land was ours before we were the land's.
The first people in my line arrived from England about 1620. The bare-bones genealogy I copied at my grandma's, afaik a compilation from family Bibles, said that one of the early settlers married a woman who was "part Pequot Indian." But there were no legends about her. The Irish came in a flood in the 1800s, and we look like them, and there are stories and legends about them, as well as letters and Daguerrotypes. The NA woman was not suppressed, just vanished in the mists of Time.
She was so far removed from my life as a freckled child growing up in Hawaii among Asians and Polynesians that I never gave her any real thought.
In college I had an album by Buffy Saint-Marie that included a bitterly scathing song about white people claiming some NA ancestry. So that made sure that I never mentioned my possible ancestress.
The nastiness of Trump vis a vis Elizabeth Warren is yet more racist misogyny from the shameless buffoon. He deserves no answer. Her story is her own -- she is deservedly comfortable in her own skin.
For the rest of us, we might want to consider what these stories mean to us not literally but psychologically. "The land was ours, before we were the land's."
nolabear
(42,004 posts)That probably says a lot about what we lack.