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pdsimdars

(6,007 posts)
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 01:09 PM Jun 2016

Seriously?

There are numerous posts every day about the demon-seed Trump becoming president, and how anyone who doesn't vote for Hillary is ensuring a President Trump.

I just want to tell you that NO Bernie supporter takes this seriously. If anyone who is pushing this TIRED meme was serious, they would be fighting with all their heart for Bernie to be the nominee.

How can we take you seriously? You are pushing the candidate with the worst favoratility of ANY candidate in the history of the democratic party, the candidate under FBI criminal investigation, the candidate who has shown horrible judgement on almost every major issue, has been on the wrong side of every major issue. . .

IF you were serous about defeating Trump, you would be backing the candidate who has defeated Trump by much bigger margins in every poll for MONTHS.

In these circumstances, it is OBVIOUS to any thinking, rational person that you are not serious about this "beating Trump" meme, it is just one more tactic someone thought up. If you were serious, you'd be backing Bernie. Period.


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Seriously? (Original Post) pdsimdars Jun 2016 OP
Can't back someone that can't win the nomination MyNameGoesHere Jun 2016 #1
This message was self-deleted by its author jzodda Jun 2016 #9
The Primary and the General are different electorates. Waiting For Everyman Jun 2016 #16
Nothing false at all MyNameGoesHere Jun 2016 #17
So then you're not backing Clinton? Waiting For Everyman Jun 2016 #20
Clinton will be the nominee because MyNameGoesHere Jun 2016 #31
She isn't the nominee until July 25. Waiting For Everyman Jun 2016 #74
Pay attention "Clinton will be " MyNameGoesHere Jun 2016 #93
You can't win the general without first winning the primary. Lord Magus Jun 2016 #61
That isn't the point. Waiting For Everyman Jun 2016 #75
When the party pushes one candidate AgingAmerican Jun 2016 #147
This. metroins Jun 2016 #29
Bernie lost. Lord Magus Jun 2016 #2
Berne faced a corrupt foe if the middle class Trajan Jun 2016 #30
Hillary's full incompetence was not fully known... Herman4747 Jun 2016 #64
This primary season Lazy Daisy Jun 2016 #3
Every. Single. Word. Is. Hilarious. OilemFirchen Jun 2016 #4
11 reasons bernie lost this thing fair and square: niyad Jun 2016 #5
Fair and Square? tecelote Jun 2016 #76
answered in #5 treestar Jun 2016 #142
Terrific analysis PJMcK Jun 2016 #79
thank you for pointing out those particular points. alas, facts do not matter to some. niyad Jun 2016 #98
Facts don't seem to factor into some people's thinking PJMcK Jun 2016 #99
appreciate that very much! niyad Jun 2016 #102
Amen. kadaholo Jun 2016 #6
Five days... brooklynite Jun 2016 #7
How are you going to cope LoverOfLiberty Jun 2016 #8
"the candidate with the worst favorability of ANY candidate" missingthebigdog Jun 2016 #10
Not so. pdsimdars Jun 2016 #12
#Berniemath missingthebigdog Jun 2016 #13
meaningless response demwing Jun 2016 #107
The population of Washington missingthebigdog Jun 2016 #111
You're missing the point demwing Jun 2016 #114
No, thank you. I'm good. missingthebigdog Jun 2016 #117
Get some sleep, I don't think the next few days demwing Jun 2016 #124
I guess we'll know soon. missingthebigdog Jun 2016 #128
Is that supposed to be a joke? Lord Magus Jun 2016 #33
but in the primaries here MFM008 Jun 2016 #130
So, she has the most favorables too then , eh? apcalc Jun 2016 #54
Independents largely couldn't or didn't vote Herman4747 Jun 2016 #65
That says a lot doesn't it? pinebox Jun 2016 #84
Logic ESCAPES YOU! jzodda Jun 2016 #11
Reality ESCAPES YOU! pdsimdars Jun 2016 #14
Lets see what happens after the DC primary jzodda Jun 2016 #15
It is in the Democratic RULES. She is not the nominee until the convention. pdsimdars Jun 2016 #18
You are dancing on the head of a pin jzodda Jun 2016 #22
NO ONE IS EVER THE NOMINEE UNTIL THE CONVENTION. Lord Magus Jun 2016 #35
You are correct. She is the presumptive nominee, apcalc Jun 2016 #55
"59 percent" TwilightZone Jun 2016 #24
That is NOT reality, that is SPIN from a Bernie surrogates a few weeks ago. Lord Magus Jun 2016 #34
Is that why Bernie said he would vote for Obama in 2008 as a WhiteTara Jun 2016 #57
Did he really? That is interesting. ... 😨 AgadorSparticus Jun 2016 #71
Yes. Really he did. WhiteTara Jun 2016 #100
The cognitive dissonance is really going to hurt when Sanders endorses HRC next week... JCMach1 Jun 2016 #19
No, it is not. That is just wishful thinking on your part. djean111 Jun 2016 #21
^^^ THIS ^^^ Ino Jun 2016 #25
They don't really "get" our relationship to Bernie because theirs is so cultish, and ours isn't. pdsimdars Jun 2016 #41
. Squinch Jun 2016 #90
. KitSileya Jun 2016 #105
Exactly. Bernie is a politician, we are not jack_krass Jun 2016 #63
The mass pivot to Hillary is already underway. JoePhilly Jun 2016 #73
The arguments seem to be weakening, day by day. MineralMan Jun 2016 #23
Oh gag! Please get over it! Vote for who you damn well want to. leftofcool Jun 2016 #26
Are the Buffalo Bills four-time Super Bowl champions? theboss Jun 2016 #27
Bernie drew a lot of supporters who've never paid attention to elections before. Lord Magus Jun 2016 #37
It's amazing how they fail to see how damn illogical their argument is (or they just think we are Skwmom Jun 2016 #28
I think you have something there. I am just too rational and smart to dumb myself down pdsimdars Jun 2016 #42
It's toooooo late gollygee Jun 2016 #32
Robert Reich, a Bernie supporter, takes it seriously One of the 99 Jun 2016 #36
Hillary is still not the nominee. Anyone serious about "not Trump" should push for Bernie pdsimdars Jun 2016 #44
I am not convinced Sanders would beat Trump. apcalc Jun 2016 #56
Sanders can not beat Trump. He could not get enough Dems on board. leftofcool Jun 2016 #60
Isn't it interesting that they automatically assume that all the HRC supporters would switch? KitSileya Jun 2016 #109
Feel the math. One of the 99 Jun 2016 #95
But she ISN'T until the vote at the convention. That is THE FACT. pdsimdars Jun 2016 #127
And the fact is that we already know the result of that vote. One of the 99 Jun 2016 #139
He is not a poor working person who is depending on these fucking liars to improve things onecaliberal Jun 2016 #108
True One of the 99 Jun 2016 #113
The 1% is the 1%. Period onecaliberal Jun 2016 #120
Simplistic. Things aren't so black and white. One of the 99 Jun 2016 #138
Actually they are, we have gotten exactly what we've been voting for. onecaliberal Jun 2016 #140
Again simplistic One of the 99 Jun 2016 #141
Callous? surely you just... #Blocked. onecaliberal Jun 2016 #144
Yes callous One of the 99 Jun 2016 #145
Absolutely correctomundo. Alex4Martinez Jun 2016 #38
another rational being. . . . thanks pdsimdars Jun 2016 #45
We voted for the best person. Sorry it wasn't your guy. eom tarheelsunc Jun 2016 #50
Exactly! missingthebigdog Jun 2016 #112
Basically... Wilms Jun 2016 #39
You realize that you're just about one of the last holdouts here, right? Tarc Jun 2016 #40
+1 Because Berners know Bernie. ancianita Jun 2016 #43
Pssssst. She's no longer a candidate... SidDithers Jun 2016 #46
The only candidate who has defeated Trump in VOTES is HRC lunamagica Jun 2016 #47
There were 17 GOP nominees compared to 4 Dems pinebox Jun 2016 #85
And out of the three last candidates, the one in last place, with less votes was Sanders. lunamagica Jun 2016 #115
Actually I hate to tell you this pinebox Jun 2016 #118
If what you say is true, then Sanders is the weakest candidate of all lunamagica Jun 2016 #119
Wrong. pinebox Jun 2016 #121
Polls predicting an event five months away? Please. BTW, those polls are already changing lunamagica Jun 2016 #122
Wrong. tarheelsunc Jun 2016 #48
lolz you guys! obamanut2012 Jun 2016 #49
Once again, she is NOT under investigation. apcalc Jun 2016 #51
that is simply not true, why do people insist on pushing this lie? AntiBank Jun 2016 #72
Because the FBI has said so at least 5 times leftofcool Jun 2016 #77
erm no. Plus White House said it was a criminal investigation too AntiBank Jun 2016 #78
The FBI is investigating the way material is classified leftofcool Jun 2016 #81
lolol AntiBank Jun 2016 #82
Hillary is under an FBI investigation. This is a FACT. pinebox Jun 2016 #86
Yes but unless the FBI recommends indicting Hillary & it pains me 2 say as a Bernie supporter, she WILL be our nominee. InAbLuEsTaTe Jun 2016 #103
I just want to tell you that NO Bernie supporter takes this seriously. NCTraveler Jun 2016 #52
6 more days... chillfactor Jun 2016 #53
Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2016 #70
There is no Sanders no back MFM008 Jun 2016 #58
There is not many of you lancer78 Jun 2016 #59
"posts like the OP's will be gone in 6 days" Lizzie Poppet Jun 2016 #96
Doubtfull lancer78 Jun 2016 #97
Prove that she has been on the wrong side of every major issue MadBadger Jun 2016 #62
Why? You apparently don't have anything to say, so who wants to waste any time on that pdsimdars Jun 2016 #126
Nonsense ContinentalOp Jun 2016 #66
Bernie would CRUSH tRump! InAbLuEsTaTe Jun 2016 #104
The fact that anyone is still discussing Sanders at this point is what is amazing. mikehiggins Jun 2016 #110
Those over 60, or thereabouts (the young!) have been watching these 'games' unfold for decades slipslidingaway Jun 2016 #67
At what point do you acknowledge there currently is no other path? randome Jun 2016 #80
Yes, Hillary has the nomination sewn up, I'll concede that... but only if the FBI elects NOT to indict. InAbLuEsTaTe Jun 2016 #106
The FBI neither indicts, okasha Jun 2016 #133
You're right, the FBI does not indict people, but I thought it did recommend indictments to DOJ, which makes the decision. InAbLuEsTaTe Jun 2016 #135
It gathers information and submits it to to the DoJ. okasha Jun 2016 #136
+1. Great post pinebox Jun 2016 #87
^^^^^^^^^^^ Amen! ^^^^^^^^^^^ to that pdsimdars Jun 2016 #88
You're right... tandem5 Jun 2016 #68
Your premise is wrong, and self serving. Lil Missy Jun 2016 #69
it's hard for me to believe... quickesst Jun 2016 #83
I'd suggest turning up your hearing aid because you apparently haven't really listened yet pdsimdars Jun 2016 #89
Listen to what? quickesst Jun 2016 #94
You got is backwards. . . . what has been posted thousands of times is the pdsimdars Jun 2016 #125
Actually there is a difference quickesst Jun 2016 #137
Most people consider Hillary a better bet against Trump than Bernie. YouDig Jun 2016 #91
I voted for Bernie in my primary thucythucy Jun 2016 #92
You are exactly 100% correct. I don't take them seriously either. It's another manipulation tactic. GoneFishin Jun 2016 #101
Great point Time for change Jun 2016 #116
Seriously? DrDan Jun 2016 #123
I'm not worried about the GE turnout; most of the BS supporters even say they.... dubyadiprecession Jun 2016 #129
What degree of hubris does it take annavictorious Jun 2016 #131
Presidential race polls pretty much mean jack shit at this time of year. tonyt53 Jun 2016 #132
Wow SCantiGOP Jun 2016 #134
K & Friggen R nt Live and Learn Jun 2016 #143
Bernie lost big time workinclasszero Jun 2016 #146
 

MyNameGoesHere

(7,638 posts)
1. Can't back someone that can't win the nomination
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 01:12 PM
Jun 2016

that would be my requirement to support Sanders. It's just one little detail

Response to MyNameGoesHere (Reply #1)

Waiting For Everyman

(9,385 posts)
16. The Primary and the General are different electorates.
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 01:47 PM
Jun 2016

Just because someone wins the Primary does not mean they can win the General; and just because someone loses the Primary does not mean they wouldn't have the best results in the General. There are two very different sets of voters.

So this is a false argument.

 

MyNameGoesHere

(7,638 posts)
31. Clinton will be the nominee because
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 03:19 PM
Jun 2016

Well she won, Sanders lost. It's actually quite simple and easy to figure out if you're paying attention.

Lord Magus

(1,999 posts)
61. You can't win the general without first winning the primary.
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 09:39 PM
Jun 2016

Since Bernie didn't win the primary, he won't be a candidate in the general.

Waiting For Everyman

(9,385 posts)
75. That isn't the point.
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 06:25 AM
Jun 2016

The Primary and the General have two different sets of voters with different demographics. A Primary's purpose should be to select someone who is strongest at winning the General. When we lose sight of that, we lose the General.

 

AgingAmerican

(12,958 posts)
147. When the party pushes one candidate
Mon Jun 13, 2016, 11:41 AM
Jun 2016

And attempts to extinguish the other, we end up with the inferior candidate in the General Election. That is the situation we are in.

metroins

(2,550 posts)
29. This.
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 02:51 PM
Jun 2016

If he can't win the nomination, he won't be on the ballot.

This isn't even a discussion anymore.

Lord Magus

(1,999 posts)
2. Bernie lost.
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 01:13 PM
Jun 2016

Demanding that the losing candidate be anointed as the nominee is completely unacceptable in the Democratic Party. Maybe some party that doesn't care about democracy would operate like that, but not here.

 

Trajan

(19,089 posts)
30. Berne faced a corrupt foe if the middle class
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 02:52 PM
Jun 2016

Debbie Wasserman Shultz and her preferred candidate and fellow supplicant of the mega corporate hierarchy, Hillary Clinton ...

The dishonesty that you defend for political expediency is real, and extremely corrosive to the only
party I have ever belonged to ... Your dishonesty us your dishonor ... Why would anybody want to belong to a party of liars? ... Fuck that ...

Your insulting diatribes have the effect of pushing long time members, like myself, AWAY from the Democratic Party ...

I've listened to your declamatory rants long enough ...

Blink once ... Gone ...

 

Herman4747

(1,825 posts)
64. Hillary's full incompetence was not fully known...
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 12:01 AM
Jun 2016

Early in the voting ( February or so). To allow for such a contingency, the Democratic Party came up with superdelegates, with the discretion to act wisely.

 

Lazy Daisy

(928 posts)
3. This primary season
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 01:18 PM
Jun 2016

Each party has shown us who they truly are.

How long has the Republican party strongly denied being racist? And who is it they will be nominating?
How long has the Democratic party stated they are for the people? And who is it they will be nominating?

The late great Maya Angelou: When someone shows you who they are.... believe them.

niyad

(112,437 posts)
5. 11 reasons bernie lost this thing fair and square:
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 01:24 PM
Jun 2016

11 reasons why Bernie Sanders lost this thing fair and square


?1464026361
VALLEJO, CA - MAY 18: Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Bernie Sanders speaks at a campaign rally at Waterfront Park on May 18, 2016 in Vallejo, California. A day after winning the Oregon primary, Bernie Sanders is campaigning in California ahead of the state's presidential primary on June 7. (Photo by Justin Sullivan/Getty Images)



Bernie Sanders exceeded all primary season expectations and was en route to building something of a real movement. But rather than locking in those gains and settling in for a long-haul effort, he’s opted for a legacy-busting temper tantrum instead, heading out the (primary) door in a cloud of whining, conspiracy mongering, and blame casting. It’s a bizarre finale to what was undoubtedly an incredible run. So here are some observations, not because it matters—he’s lost—but because his claims of victimhood are absolute bullshit and need to be corrected.

1. If you plan for a coup, you’ve already lost

Let’s just take a moment to appreciate what Sanders is trying to accomplish here—he knows he’s lost the election. He’s all but acknowledged it. Which is why he’s now focused so heavily on getting the establishment superdelegates to overturn the election in his favor. Like a despotic dictator, he is so sure of his supremacy that he sneers at the choices of his electorate and seeks to callously toss them aside. He dishonestly tells his supporters that there’s a conspiracy standing between him and victory.

Not only is this undemocratic, it’s outright delusional. These are the same superdelegates representing the same establishment he’s repeatedly bashed and even sued. These are the superdelegates he spent the first year of his campaign blasting as an affront to the democratic process and illegitimate. NOW, things are different. Having lost the election, he expects these supers to overturn the will of the electorate, including the heavy preferences of key growth party demographics like Latinos and African Americans, in order to hand the nomination to the loser of the contest.

. . . .

3. No, Sanders won’t do better than Clinton against Trump.

Current polling has Clinton’s negatives baked in. They are her floor. Current polling doesn’t have Sanders’ negatives baked in. They are his ceiling. And dear god, there is plenty in Sanders’ background to feed the Republican Noise Machine for the general election. And by the end of the cycle, his negatives would match those of Clinton’s.

. . . .

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/5/23/1529938/-11-reasons-why-Bernie-Sanders-lost-this-thing-fair-and-square

tecelote

(5,122 posts)
76. Fair and Square?
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 06:37 AM
Jun 2016

Hillary is the media's darling. She easily had 10x the media coverage.

If our elections were fair and square, Bernie would win in a landslide.

End of story.

PJMcK

(21,922 posts)
79. Terrific analysis
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 06:56 AM
Jun 2016

Thanks for posting the link, niyad. It's quite an interesting read. I'm particularly struck by these points:

5. But what about the media blackout?
(snip)
There’s a reason Sanders did so well. Whether the nightly news would cover him or not was utterly irrelevant. If we know anything, it’s that if a network newscast covers a Democrat, it’s not good. Are you really jealous at all the “Benghazi” and “emails” shit Clinton has had to face? Lucky for all of us, people aren’t getting their news from those sources anymore.

7. The system was rigged because of closed primaries!
(snip)
That said, there have been 23 open contests, and Clinton has won 13 of them. That’s a majority. So even this stupid talking point is stupid. And you know what makes it even more stupid? Take away caucuses, so that we’re just talking about open primaries, then Clinton has won open primaries 13-6.

9. If the system is rigged, why does Sanders have more delegates than his vote share?
Sanders has won 43 percent of the popular vote, yet he’s won 46 percent of the delegates. How rigged!

PJMcK

(21,922 posts)
99. Facts don't seem to factor into some people's thinking
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 12:19 PM
Jun 2016

On the other hand, your post had already quoted enough of the article. I just thought I'd fill in a couple of blanks for you (wink).

missingthebigdog

(1,233 posts)
10. "the candidate with the worst favorability of ANY candidate"
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 01:26 PM
Jun 2016

happens to be the candidate who got the most votes.

 

pdsimdars

(6,007 posts)
12. Not so.
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 01:37 PM
Jun 2016

For example, Bernie won 72% in Washington.
There are 7.2 Million people in Washington.
Bernie got ZERO votes for Washington.

That happened in a number of states Bernie won and a number with large margins.

missingthebigdog

(1,233 posts)
111. The population of Washington
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 12:59 PM
Jun 2016

Is meaningless to this particular equation.

It gets extremely tiring to try to explain that the votes are counted according to the rules that Bernie agreed to.

 

demwing

(16,916 posts)
124. Get some sleep, I don't think the next few days
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 04:00 PM
Jun 2016

Are going to deliver the results that you're counting on...

Lord Magus

(1,999 posts)
33. Is that supposed to be a joke?
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 03:26 PM
Jun 2016

By that "logic" California should be counted as nearly 22 million votes for Hillary since she won with 56% and the state population is 39 million.

There were not 7.2 million participants in the Washington caucus. And here's what happened when the people of Washington actually did get their votes counted:
http://results.vote.wa.gov/results/current/President-Democratic-Party.html

MFM008

(19,782 posts)
130. but in the primaries here
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 04:31 PM
Jun 2016

she got at least a million votes on paper ballot.
He got a weekend caucus with those of us who had the time at 10 AM to sit almost 3 hours.
Its an awful experience, they had to pass out water in March because it felt like July.
We need to go back to only a primary.

 

Herman4747

(1,825 posts)
65. Independents largely couldn't or didn't vote
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 12:12 AM
Jun 2016

In the Democratic primary. They do however participate in favorability polls. Even more important, they vote in November

 

pinebox

(5,761 posts)
84. That says a lot doesn't it?
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 08:02 AM
Jun 2016

It really does.
The makeup of the GE is very different and Dems won't win with 29% of the vote. She is hated.

jzodda

(2,124 posts)
11. Logic ESCAPES YOU!
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 01:27 PM
Jun 2016

Since Bernie lost and the ONLY way to defeat Trump is to support Clinton.

If you can't see that then you are blinded by hate.

Again the man lost and will be dropping out in a few day...

 

pdsimdars

(6,007 posts)
14. Reality ESCAPES YOU!
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 01:42 PM
Jun 2016

Here is REALITY, may I introduce you? (these are the RULES by the Democrats)

If a Democratic primary candidate can win 59 percent of the Party’s “pledged” (primary- and caucus-won) delegates or more, the primary is decided by pledged delegates; if a Democratic primary candidate fails to meet that threshold, they are considered by DNC electoral processes to be a weak front-runner and the nomination is finally decided, instead, by “superdelegates” — who can express support for a candidate at any time, but cannot commit themselves to anyone (i.e., cast a binding vote for any candidate) until the Democratic National Convention in July; superdelegates are unlike pledged delegates in this regard because, while pledged delegates also do not vote until the Party’s convention, they cannot change their votes from what their state’s voting results pledged them to be — though it has been argued by some that in fact they can change their votes at the Convention, with this argument most recently having been advanced by Hillary Rodham Clinton in 2008.


If you can't see that then you are blinded by hate.

We do not have a nominee until JULY.

And Bernie will NOT be dropping out in a few days...

jzodda

(2,124 posts)
15. Lets see what happens after the DC primary
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 01:47 PM
Jun 2016

I doubt very much this is going to the convention.

This Super delegate argument is so far fetched. Is this the wait for the indictment that's never coming strategy? Because that's what it looks like to many.

I can't see how you can't see that its not over when the PRESIDENT has already come out for HRC along with Biden and Warren.

 

pdsimdars

(6,007 posts)
18. It is in the Democratic RULES. She is not the nominee until the convention.
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 01:54 PM
Jun 2016

I don't care if the Pope comes out and endorses her. SHE IS NOT THE NOMINEE UNTIL THE CONVENTION. That is what the rules say. I realize that following the rules is foreign to Hillary but really, it's good to try.

Again, I don't know what SD argument you are referring to, but IN THEIR OWN RULES, they clearly state the role of the SDs. What part of that are you having trouble understanding? I think it puts it out VERY CLEARLY.

You just don't like it. But there it is.

jzodda

(2,124 posts)
22. You are dancing on the head of a pin
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 02:01 PM
Jun 2016

If he drops out and endorses HRC its kind of over. Sure if she dropped dead (knock on wood-please no) or was indicted from now till then it belongs to Bernie but its a slim to none odds. Wouldn't take those odds in Vegas.

You don't think he drops out....Well I do think he will. Lets see.

Lord Magus

(1,999 posts)
35. NO ONE IS EVER THE NOMINEE UNTIL THE CONVENTION.
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 03:32 PM
Jun 2016

That doesn't change the fact that she is the presumptive nominee and will be named the nominee at the convention.

Lord Magus

(1,999 posts)
34. That is NOT reality, that is SPIN from a Bernie surrogates a few weeks ago.
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 03:30 PM
Jun 2016

The actual DNC rules do not make any distinction between pledged delegates and superdelegates in the role call vote at the convention. There is no such term as "weak front-runner" to be found in the rules, and the roll call vote is always held at the convention no matter how big or how small the front-runner's lead in pledged delegates might be.

WhiteTara

(29,676 posts)
57. Is that why Bernie said he would vote for Obama in 2008 as a
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 07:10 PM
Jun 2016

super delegate and that Hillary should drop out of the race before the convention? Sounds like speaking out of both sides of his mouth.

WhiteTara

(29,676 posts)
100. Yes. Really he did.
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 12:20 PM
Jun 2016

There is so much hypocrisy that it is depressing. Of course, it couldn't be sexism. We know that doesn't exist.

 

djean111

(14,255 posts)
21. No, it is not. That is just wishful thinking on your part.
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 02:00 PM
Jun 2016

Bernie will do what he feels he has to do.

And we will all do what we feel we have to do, which may not agree with what Bernie does.

This was never about one guy, you know. And Bernie cannot get me to support a candidate who is for war and fracking and other noxious things that hurt people. Bernie knows that.

There will be no hurt, no cognitive dissonance - and no mass pivot to Hillary. Sorry to disappoint!

 

pdsimdars

(6,007 posts)
41. They don't really "get" our relationship to Bernie because theirs is so cultish, and ours isn't.
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 06:42 PM
Jun 2016

KitSileya

(4,035 posts)
105. .
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 12:34 PM
Jun 2016


I guess I imagined the posts claiming 'the bird is a sign', not to mention all the posts comparing Bernie to Jesus (they were both carpenters, natch.)

JoePhilly

(27,787 posts)
73. The mass pivot to Hillary is already underway.
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 06:19 AM
Jun 2016

Bernie's super delegates are already moving ... Hillary is already hiring staff that he had to let go.

You can stand still ... everyone else is moving on to defeat Trump and the GOP.

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
23. The arguments seem to be weakening, day by day.
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 02:08 PM
Jun 2016

Clinton has earned the nomination through millions of Democratic voters casting their votes.

I'm sorry that you're disappointed in that, but it is simply the fact.

Further, I doubt that you can speak for any Bernie supporter but yourself.

It's gotten old, this has.

leftofcool

(19,460 posts)
26. Oh gag! Please get over it! Vote for who you damn well want to.
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 02:46 PM
Jun 2016

And by the way................Bernie LOST!

 

theboss

(10,491 posts)
27. Are the Buffalo Bills four-time Super Bowl champions?
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 02:47 PM
Jun 2016

I've never seen this in politics before - the idea that winning and losing elections actually does not matter.

Lord Magus

(1,999 posts)
37. Bernie drew a lot of supporters who've never paid attention to elections before.
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 03:34 PM
Jun 2016

The downside of this is that some of those people are stubbornly refusing to learn how elections actually work.

Skwmom

(12,685 posts)
28. It's amazing how they fail to see how damn illogical their argument is (or they just think we are
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 02:47 PM
Jun 2016

stupid enough to buy it)

 

pdsimdars

(6,007 posts)
42. I think you have something there. I am just too rational and smart to dumb myself down
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 06:43 PM
Jun 2016

enough to support such a weak candidate over a strong candidate.

One of the 99

(2,280 posts)
36. Robert Reich, a Bernie supporter, takes it seriously
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 03:33 PM
Jun 2016

Finally, some of you say even if Hillary is better than Trump, you’re tired of choosing the “lesser of two evils,” and you’re going to vote your conscience by either writing Bernie’s name in, or voting for the Green Party candidate, or not voting at all.

I can’t criticize anyone for voting their conscience, of course. But your conscience should know that a decision not to vote for Hillary, should she become the Democratic nominee, is a de facto decision to help Donald Trump.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-reich/advice-for-divided-democrats_b_10162184.html
 

pdsimdars

(6,007 posts)
44. Hillary is still not the nominee. Anyone serious about "not Trump" should push for Bernie
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 06:45 PM
Jun 2016

with all their might. He can beat Trump and Hillary won't.
A decision not to have Bernie as the nominee is a de fact decision to help Donald Trump.

KitSileya

(4,035 posts)
109. Isn't it interesting that they automatically assume that all the HRC supporters would switch?
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 12:49 PM
Jun 2016

That they think that everyone who supports Clinton would vote for Bernie if he was given the nomination? They themselves say they won't vote for Hillary, but they assume that we will not only vote for him, but also put the Democratic party infrastructure at his disposal if he were, undemocratically, to be given the nomination. She won the support of the majority of our party, but they think he should be crowned because of unsubstantiated claims that people who do not want to be a part of our party support him? (I mean, a huge number of the people who voted for him in West Virginia said they'd vote for Trump in the GE, so exit polls on R/D/I don't mean he will get the bulk of the independents come the GE.)

Even though I put myself in danger of being called an anti-semite for saying this, but they embody the definition of chutzpah. Bernie Sanders admits he ran as a Democrat because he wanted the advantages of doing so, accepting the strictures of the rules in the party with his choice, but his supporters claim he should be crowned nominee because he won those outside the Democratic party. Chutzpah.

One of the 99

(2,280 posts)
139. And the fact is that we already know the result of that vote.
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 08:48 AM
Jun 2016

Wishing for a different outcome isn't going to change that.

onecaliberal

(32,489 posts)
108. He is not a poor working person who is depending on these fucking liars to improve things
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 12:45 PM
Jun 2016

For working people as opposed to protecting wealthy and their money.

One of the 99

(2,280 posts)
113. True
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 01:46 PM
Jun 2016

He is not. And if you care about poor working people, do you think they'll fair better or worse under a Trump presidency?

One of the 99

(2,280 posts)
138. Simplistic. Things aren't so black and white.
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 08:47 AM
Jun 2016

And there are millions of minorities, woman and poor people who will suffer greatly under Trump as President.

onecaliberal

(32,489 posts)
140. Actually they are, we have gotten exactly what we've been voting for.
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 11:07 AM
Jun 2016

Things don't change because we don't force it. There is literally NOTHING untouched by the corruption of the 1%.

One of the 99

(2,280 posts)
141. Again simplistic
Mon Jun 13, 2016, 09:42 AM
Jun 2016

and callously ignores the suffering of women, minorities and the poor will endure under President Trump.

One of the 99

(2,280 posts)
145. Yes callous
Mon Jun 13, 2016, 10:40 AM
Jun 2016

No one should ignore the damage that will be done by Trump and the GOP. This is in many ways the same as 2000 when we were told Bush and Gore were the same and many refused to vote for "the lesser of two evils". How did that work out?

As Robert Reich wrote:


Which brings me to those of you who say there’s no real difference between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump.

That’s just plain wrong.
...
Some of you agree a Trump presidency would be a disaster but claim it would galvanize a forceful progressive movement in response.

That’s unlikely. Rarely if ever in history has a sharp swing to the right moved the political pendulum further back in the opposite direction. Instead, it tends to move the “center” rightward, as did Ronald Reagan’s presidency.

Alex4Martinez

(2,180 posts)
38. Absolutely correctomundo.
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 03:37 PM
Jun 2016

All of this drama also undermines the very foundation of our democracy and what few shreds of it are left.

We vote for the best person, the best ethics, the person who best embodies our dreams and values and aspirations.

Secondly, perhaps, we vote for the person most likely to beat the opposition.

By both measures above, arguably, we would all be supporting Sanders.

Tarc

(10,472 posts)
40. You realize that you're just about one of the last holdouts here, right?
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 06:20 PM
Jun 2016

This sad retread of an argument, "OMG ONLY TEH BERN CAN BEAT TRUMP" really needs to be buried. 16,000,000 voters felt it was ridiculous.

Your guy lost. Move on.

 

pinebox

(5,761 posts)
85. There were 17 GOP nominees compared to 4 Dems
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 08:06 AM
Jun 2016

Think about that.
Dem voter turnout is way down. Republican turnout is through the roof. Now they have an outside populist to vote for and even more reason, they have someone to vote against who they absolutely can't stand. Republican voter turnout come November will be astronomically high. Us Bernie supporters have been saying this all along.

lunamagica

(9,967 posts)
115. And out of the three last candidates, the one in last place, with less votes was Sanders.
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 01:48 PM
Jun 2016

second place goes to Trump, and first place goes to Hillary, with a clear, solid lead in votes.

Think about that.

 

pinebox

(5,761 posts)
118. Actually I hate to tell you this
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 02:51 PM
Jun 2016

but when you break it down, Trump had more votes by percentages. Dem turnout is down big time Republican turnout is through the roof. Hillary is the weaker candidate in a GE compared to Bernie and all polls reflect this.

It is what it is.

tarheelsunc

(2,117 posts)
48. Wrong.
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 06:55 PM
Jun 2016

Anyone serious about beating Trump will support the Democratic nominee, because that is the only person who has a chance of winning regardless of who it is. And we're sure as fuck not going to let a bunch of speculative polls about an event 5 months away tell us who to nominate.

 

AntiBank

(1,339 posts)
72. that is simply not true, why do people insist on pushing this lie?
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 06:16 AM
Jun 2016

That said I highly doubt she will be even recommended for indictment.

 

AntiBank

(1,339 posts)
78. erm no. Plus White House said it was a criminal investigation too
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 06:56 AM
Jun 2016

it is not some nonexistent "security review"

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Not their own facts. Non-criminal investigations cannot end with possible recommendations for criminal indictments.

leftofcool

(19,460 posts)
81. The FBI is investigating the way material is classified
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 07:04 AM
Jun 2016

They have said 5 times that Hillary is not the target of the investigation.

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,110 posts)
103. Yes but unless the FBI recommends indicting Hillary & it pains me 2 say as a Bernie supporter, she WILL be our nominee.
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 12:32 PM
Jun 2016

Response to chillfactor (Reply #53)

MFM008

(19,782 posts)
58. There is no Sanders no back
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 07:10 PM
Jun 2016

Only D.C. left and HRC will win it.
Sure he will be on the ballot at the convention
but He cannot change the minds of super delegates or he would already.
By then she will pick a VP nominee...possibly either Julian Castro or Elizabeth Warren.
6 days until the DU gets in GE mode and these type of posts have to end.


 

lancer78

(1,495 posts)
59. There is not many of you
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 07:17 PM
Jun 2016

left on this site who are still trying to push for Sanders. Everyone needs to not get so worked up as posts like the OP's will be gone in 6 days.

 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
96. "posts like the OP's will be gone in 6 days"
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 10:41 AM
Jun 2016

As will a very large chunk of the site's remaining progressives. Enjoy your Third Way echo chamber.

 

pdsimdars

(6,007 posts)
126. Why? You apparently don't have anything to say, so who wants to waste any time on that
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 04:10 PM
Jun 2016

nonsense?

ContinentalOp

(5,356 posts)
66. Nonsense
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 01:48 AM
Jun 2016

I personally believe that Sanders would be absolutely crushed by Trump. I have my opinion on the matter, you have yours. Neither opinion is more correct or "serious." But surely you can see that name recognition, money, connections, and demographics are hugely important to winning any national race. All of those things that Sanders supporters complain about with Clinton are exactly the reasons why she'll win. The machine politics, establishment support, media support, the support of women and minorities, etc. If you were serious about winning you would realize that these things matter and that an unknown 74 year old socialist from a small rural state doesn't have a chance in hell of winning a general election.

mikehiggins

(5,614 posts)
110. The fact that anyone is still discussing Sanders at this point is what is amazing.
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 12:57 PM
Jun 2016

He should have been gone last July. Last August. Certainly by January. Couldn't possibly be around in March. Of course he'd be gone in April, May, June...

The Sanders campaign suggested two things. First, the nation was hungering for a 74 year old balding Jew from Vermont to set fire to the political world and lead America into a promised land of free college, etc., etc., etc.

Conversely, the Sanders campaign demonstrated how weak a candidate the supposedly inevitable Hillary Clinton actually is. Luckily for us the GOPukes seem determined to field a second-rate clown and con-man as her opposition. Let us pray that continues and that the GOPuke establishment does not succeed in replacing the Head Clown as their candidate with someone who has at least some understanding of politics and America's standing, and role, in this era. Jeb Bush, for example.

The die is cast, as the old Romans would say. We will have to see how November turns out.

For the true Progressives among us, Sanders ability to fight all the way to D.C. can give us hope that all is not lost. That's a lot more than we had a year ago.

Thanks, Bernie

slipslidingaway

(21,210 posts)
67. Those over 60, or thereabouts (the young!) have been watching these 'games' unfold for decades
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 02:28 AM
Jun 2016

we are always told to vote for a person because the other person is worse, what about the Supreme Court etc. etc.

Well that has not turned out so well for the American people, us boomers complied, in retrospect we may have messed up royally, believing the candidate of the other party would be worse.

When does your continued compliance lead to unintended and unwanted consequences, where and when do you draw the line? Do you ever say enough is enough before you die, or do you just always go along?

What have we gained for most people in the US, some equality here or there, but the middle class as we knew it decades ago has been shrinking. There are those who would point to specific injustices along the way, but ultimately money does buy power.

Money buys access to good schools, meals on the table and that can go a long way. Some say we need to separate racial inequality from economic inequality, I disagree.

We can try and dismiss the economic side, but if you ever have faced a serious illness you will realize that money cannot cure the illness, but it goes a long way in making it easier to cope with the daily/monthly chores.

Money helps to smooth out the injustices felt by people for a myriad of reasons, we can try to fight the injustices of what money can buy, but IMHO we cannot escape the fact that it makes things easier and allows access to certain things ... health, education are two very important reasons to push for economic equality.

At what point in our lives do we acknowledge the fact that 'just going along' is no longer working and we need another path.





 

randome

(34,845 posts)
80. At what point do you acknowledge there currently is no other path?
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 07:01 AM
Jun 2016

Clinton has the nomination. That's reality. Voting for Sanders at this point means you've decided to take the fork in the road that leads to a dead end. The other fork may be long and tedious but at least it leads somewhere.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.
[/center][/font][hr]

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,110 posts)
106. Yes, Hillary has the nomination sewn up, I'll concede that... but only if the FBI elects NOT to indict.
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 12:36 PM
Jun 2016

okasha

(11,573 posts)
133. The FBI neither indicts,
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 04:44 PM
Jun 2016

nor"recommends indictment" for, anyone. They are an investigative, not a judicial, agency.

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,110 posts)
135. You're right, the FBI does not indict people, but I thought it did recommend indictments to DOJ, which makes the decision.
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 04:55 PM
Jun 2016

okasha

(11,573 posts)
136. It gathers information and submits it to to the DoJ.
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 05:09 PM
Jun 2016

If the DoJ thinks it has a prosecutable case, it calls a grand jury. The grand jury either indicts or no bills.

This is where the process would break down in this instance. Where , in DC, are you going to find a couple dozen potential grand jurors who have not formed an opinion and, with the primary recent in their memory, can convince the court that they are truly impartial? And the problem gets even worse trying to seat a petit jury,

It's not going to happen.

Lil Missy

(17,865 posts)
69. Your premise is wrong, and self serving.
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 02:48 AM
Jun 2016

You're suggesting that a vote for Hillary means one is not serious about defeating Trump. Thus, it's OBVIOUS to any thinking, rational person that you cannot come up with a rational reason why Bernie lost. (And HRC is the preferred candidate.)

If the poll positions were reversed, there is NO DOUBT IN MY MIND that you would be touting another meme in which Bernie with the smallest margin would be the better choice.

For me, Hillary is the best qualified. I look at the whole record, over the entire career and or public life. Not just one vote or statement. Nor am I a Purist. And, I don't take right-wing talking points and sources seriously.

quickesst

(6,280 posts)
94. Listen to what?
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 10:19 AM
Jun 2016

You made an OP that has been done 1000 times right here. Let's see... something about doing something over and over again and expecting a different result.
If I turn up my hearing aid do the words get clearer? I don't know how that works. One thing I do understand. There are people in this country who would do and say anything to derail Hillary Clinton, even at the prospect of a trump presidency. Thankfully they are a much smaller group then most think.

 

pdsimdars

(6,007 posts)
125. You got is backwards. . . . what has been posted thousands of times is the
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 04:08 PM
Jun 2016

"if you don't want Trump, you better vote for Hillary". . . THAT gets posted many times EVERY day.

quickesst

(6,280 posts)
137. Actually there is a difference
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 06:58 PM
Jun 2016

...... Being that asking for Democrats to vote for the Democratic nominee chosen by the people is a matter of simple logic and common sense. On the other hand, pining to turn back the hands of time and wishing for a different outcome is fantasy.

YouDig

(2,280 posts)
91. Most people consider Hillary a better bet against Trump than Bernie.
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 10:13 AM
Jun 2016

You disagree, which is fine. But now we have a nominee, so that disagreement doesn't matter anymore. At this point, anyone who doesn't vote Hillary is helping Trump become president out of bitterness.

thucythucy

(7,986 posts)
92. I voted for Bernie in my primary
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 10:14 AM
Jun 2016

and I take the argument about having to defeat Trump very seriously indeed.

"NO Bernie supporter takes this seriously..."

Since when did you become spokesperson for every Bernie supporter in existence?

Time for change

(13,714 posts)
116. Great point
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 02:06 PM
Jun 2016

And let's not forget that Bernie has the HIGHEST favorability of all the candidates this primary season.

DrDan

(20,411 posts)
123. Seriously?
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 03:52 PM
Jun 2016

This particular site is here to support THE Democratic candidate. That is NOT Bernie.

If you do not want to do that, your welcome here is fast disappearing and will be gone in a handful of days.

dubyadiprecession

(5,625 posts)
129. I'm not worried about the GE turnout; most of the BS supporters even say they....
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 04:24 PM
Jun 2016

weren't democrats to begin with. So they can't really be part of the base that turns out to vote for our candidates.

 

annavictorious

(934 posts)
131. What degree of hubris does it take
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 04:33 PM
Jun 2016

for a person to believe that he personally speaks for thousands of people? If you were serious, you would temper your vitriol with reason. Period.

 

tonyt53

(5,737 posts)
132. Presidential race polls pretty much mean jack shit at this time of year.
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 04:35 PM
Jun 2016

When the GOP hit Bernie with the "commie" label, he would have lost most voters over the age of 55. The GOP would have plenty of ammo to back that claim up, thanks to Bernie's own words.

 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
146. Bernie lost big time
Mon Jun 13, 2016, 10:47 AM
Jun 2016

The general will be Hillary vs Trump, make your choice.

Anything else is sour grapes. Bernie couldn't seal the deal with most democrats, its time to move on.

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