2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumEnough of this 'rules' vs. 'legal requirements'!!!
The OIG conclusion says: "... the office of the Secretary ... been slow ... to manage effectively the legal requirements..."
If someone can explain to me why the OIG used this term 'legal requirements' instead of 'party rules' or 'department rules' , I will stop pushing this point.
MisterP
(23,730 posts)floppyboo
(2,461 posts)Got nothing to do with OPEC and the dollar being the for-now currency, nothing at all. Look at that tree
annavictorious
(934 posts)"Longstanding, systemic weaknesses related to electronic records and communications have existed
within the Office of the Secretary that go well beyond the tenure of any one Secretary of
State. Nevertheless, the Department generally and the Office of the Secretary in particular have
been slow to recognize and to manage effectively the legal requirements and cyber security
risks associated with electronic data communications, particularly as those risks pertain to
its most senior leadership."
Why did you leave so much out?
YouDig
(2,280 posts)It's breaking some red tape rule that nobody would care about if they weren't trying to score political points.
Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)YouDig
(2,280 posts)Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)in another approved medium.
She chose to do nothing.
YouDig
(2,280 posts)Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)that was intended for transparency in government
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Document preservation for historic value and FOIA request is a big deal, especially for open and transparent government advocates. I will put you down into the pro corruption types though. They usually are not open about that though
YouDig
(2,280 posts)It's got nothing to do with transparency, it's a bureaucratic rule. I get why bureaucratic rules are necessary, but breaking some red tape rule is not committing a crime.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)And after State could not fnd the documents. Which led to secretary Kerry asking questions.
There, I fixed that for you
YouDig
(2,280 posts)broke rule xyz and she really really shouldn't have done it and it's very serious and blah blah, but it doesn't rise to a prosecutable criminal offense. And then people like you are going accuse the FBI of corruption and protecting her. But that won't matter because you're just another person on the internet who doesn't know what you are talking about..
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)For losing control (check) of classified material right? I expect a pardon though. Politically it is the least damaging this can go.
There are also people serving hard time for giving access of classified material, in this case Special Access Program,close, if not the Crown Jewels of national Intel to somebody without a clearance.
I expect the denial. It is a symptom of a mature scandal.
YouDig
(2,280 posts)Petraeus didn't even get time and he intentionally shared actual classified material with someone he was having an affair with.
Watch you'll see. I'm sure you'll be shocked, and then you'll make a bunch trying to claim the FBI doesn't understand the law.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)This was explained in painful detail to me by a pro who works in these types of cases. Though there is motive counselor, and any competent lawyer would use it to get the pity of the court
As to Patreaus, Intel folks are still pissed. Care to get out of the buble and consider carefully why there was a plea deal?
YouDig
(2,280 posts)Intel people should be pissed about Petreaus. He intentionally shared actual classified info with a woman he was having an affair with. Hillary had non-classified material on a server that didn't get hacked, same as other secretaries of state and other state employees who also aren't going to be indicted.
What's your excuse going to be when the non-indictment comes?
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)I think he has a smidgen more of a clue than you do.
YouDig
(2,280 posts)your "why the FBI is wrong and I am right" posts.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Because the IG report has the skeleton of a pretty serious case
So what happens when you are wrong? Oh and articles are now starting to appear suggesting she will implode. That is in the water. Again, a very mature scandal.
Oh and this is fully self inflicted. People have been warning you folks all this time. That is a train light down the tracks...it is moving
YouDig
(2,280 posts)Usually followed by a bunch of excuses and conspiracies.
If I'm wrong? That would suck. Good thing I'm not.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Expected though. By your logic Kerry is a Berner, so is Judge Sullivan, and even maybe the President himself.
For the record, your party has a choice. You can use that very loaded gun to commit political suicide and hand the WH to a fascist. This is a Weimar Republic mistake, or you can run somebody else that is not damaged.
Who your party chooses is your business. For all I care you can appoint the man on the moon after the goat sacrifice, and entrail reading ok. But you run her, with all this baggage. I guess suicide is painless.
And if you go for plan B, who emerges ultimately will be a timing issue. Many are thinking Biden. I am thinking somebody truly dark. As in a dark horse
YouDig
(2,280 posts)I didn't realize that John Kerry thinks the FBI should indict Hillary. Is that something your lawyer friend told you?
The party is going to run the candidate that the voters chose in the primaries. That is Hillary Clinton.
And given that Berners have long thought, and even many still think, that Bernie is going to be the nominee, I'm not too worried about their other prognostications.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)My vote is truly my business. Your choice soon will be party or country. My, Republicans were this stubborn too, in 1973 and 2003. Your choice will be stark and for that I feel sorry for you. It will be painful. But this is not going away.
If the IG report was a slap in the hand, it was not, you might have a point. It was't.
On the bright side, people who I talk to, some democrats higher than you in pay grade were shaken by this report. People who do make those decisions are starting to realize this is very serious. It took the party elder statesmen to get Nixon to concede. Am afraid that conversation will come.
And my, you and me as voters have nothing to do with this decision. This is at a very different level, assuming the party does not want to commit suicide. If they do, by all means, pick up that gun. None will stop you, but we will not take the blame for the damage either. It will be completely on your party.
YouDig
(2,280 posts)My choice is not party or country. I'm a Democrat, so I can proudly choose both party and country. I think Hillary will be a good-to-great president, like Obama before her. And compared with Trump, voting Hillary is the easiest decision I can imagine. For you maybe it's a tough call. Not me.
As for all the insider connections you claim to have, you can give that game up, at least with me. It's kind of funny that you feel the need to "pull rank" by talking about all the inside info you get, but sadly it's very transparent. People who actually talk to experts aren't as poorly informed as you, nor do they keep trying to brag about it.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)good to know
Can I have the same level of contempt for you I have for partisan Republcians? There, I said it, you are not that different from them. But I do feel sorry for you, This will not be easy. Though when all is said and done, you might be one of the few Republcians who actually admired voting for Nixon... I found one, rare breed that this was, in 2003 in Hawaii. That took brass balls, even that many years after Watergate.
For the record, I do not fall in love with politicians, I cover them, they are slimey little creatures, I look at their policies. And of course, who gave money to whom... it is quite revealing. Local democrat getting moneys from a local REPUBLICAN PAC... hmmm lovely. What favors is he promising already? Then there is the mayor in the pocket of the local developer mafia, who might indirectly benefit over construction projects, YOU DIG.
YouDig
(2,280 posts)I think that the Democratic party is clearly superior to the Republican party. If that makes you want to scorn me, so be it. I'm proud of it. Look at what the Dems stand for, and look at what the GOP stands for. Look at Obama/Hillary, then look at Trump, and even before Trump, the rest of them, the tea party, all that. Look issue by issue. Abortion, LGBT, environment, labor, taxes, everything. Every single issue. I can't think of one where the GOP is better. Can you?
So yeah, have your contempt, if that's what you like. Having political views means some people are going to scorn you for them. I don't know your politics, it seems to be mostly an anti-Hillary vendetta, but whatever they are, be they right left or center, you are welcome to your contempt.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)your party would not nominate, let alone elect, FDR, JFK, LBJ, or for that matter Carter OTOH, you would elect real Reagan,, that is how far right this neoliberall party has gone. What is the matter with Kansas. indeed.
And no my politics, are what the democratic party used to be, As to HRC, I do not know her, I don't care to know her. see what I wrote about politicians. But nobody is above the law That at least used to be an accepted principle of American jurisprudence, the fall from that actually was Nixon. What she did, would see people I know in club fed for DECADES, you dig.
So what is there to love? One party is more open about it. She manages to get elected... and I expect Social Security to be privatized a classic of neoliberal policies around the world. I expect her to sing the TTP, yes, she will, I expect her to push for more TPAs, for the record I expect the Republcians to do the same.
And I expect us, to cross beyond the points of no return for climate change. HUMAN EXTINCTION is no longer out of the realm of possibility and due to it I expect more wars, a lot more wars, like a fucking world war at some point. I dig policy, not fucking politicians. Oh and yes that includes Sanders ok.
Enjoy the fall, it will be fun to watch. Oh and I am with a lot of former democrats, YOUR FUCKING PARTY left my working class behind.
YouDig
(2,280 posts)but that doesn't make them right-wing conservative. That's just dumb.
I said in my last post, look at the issues. Can you find even one where the GOP is better, or even the same as the Dems? I can't. Maybe there is one, but I can't think of it. Maybe you can help me out.
On the issues you mention, there's a huge difference. Climate change you bring up, that's a big one. Guess what the GOP's policy is there? It's to deny that it exists. Guess what Trump wants? More fossil fuels and less regulations. If you can't tell that Clinton is way better on climate and environment than Trump, I have nothing to say. To me it's obvious. To the NRDC it is also. I guess not to you.
And the idea of Hillary going to prison for having non-classified information on a private email server, when Colin Powell and Condi Rice also had the same kind of non-classified info on private emails, it's just nuts, really. Yeah, I know, it wasn't a private server, but an aol account is just as non-permitted as a private server. Actually, even a state department email account is not supposed to be used for classified info. Did you even know that? Did your lawyer friend not mention it?
Yeah, classified isn't supposed to circulate by email, period. Now you know. As a practical matter, sometimes it does, especially info that's in the grey area or one department thinks its classified but not another, or retroactively classified like the Clinton stuff, but nobody ever goes to prison for that or even loses their job for it or anything. So enjoy your prayers to the email fairy and your false equivalence between the Dems and the GOP.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)The RNC is a far right wing party, with strokes of hyper nationalism and fascism...
As to the rest, you are clueless, Don't worry, you will have your bunker where you can hide from the ongoing investigation.
My goodness, we should not find out what is really going on....
It will come... and the gluten and nut free cookies will be good here... I hear they will create such a safe space that reality will not intrude either. Like FR circa 2006, the denial will be hilarious to watch, That is a bright side. It is comedy gold, but also predictable, within the anatomy of all scandals.
As to your last para, I read the full report. Try that again... Have a wonderful day, I have actual work to do and I am done wasting my time with you. You think I hate people, nope, but I have the same contempt for you guys as I do for republicans now. Partisanship is the reason we are in this shitty hole partly and you guys are partly responsible for it. HEY GO, TEAM GO!!!!
It is not a fucking game. People die due to this shitty mentality.
YouDig
(2,280 posts)You can define the spectrum however you want. The important thing is that the Dems are very different and very much better than the GOP. Personally I'm a bit to the left of the average Dem, but I'm still very happy to stand with the party. They stand for what I stand for, and they are infinitely better than the GOP.
I notice that you ignored all the differences between the Dems and GOP on global warming, the issue that you brought up. Can you really not see them? I find that hard to believe.
Yeah, you think I'm clueless, and I think you are clueless. After all, you didn't even know that a state.gov email account cannot be used for classified info either. Those experts of yours failed to mention that one, I guess. I suggest getting new experts. Maybe real ones this time.
I agree that it's not a game. People will die if Trump is elected. Hopefully you will realize that before November. If not, I hope we win without your vote.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)you will know which one I mean.
Live with hit, both parties are right wing. And politics does abhor a vacuum, so sooner or later, a labor party will rise. Which national party will be replaced? That is the question. But anyway, on my way to an actual wild fire, NPR was actually covering the scandal, Hey it is a flood!!!!
tonyt53
(5,737 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)We still are. But my ethics is not situational. Perhaps yours is. Oh and who took impeachment for actual war crimes under article 1 of the Nuremberg indictment? You go ahead and take all the time in the world to think about that one, ok
Aerows
(39,961 posts)Does that still classify as a "new" "concern" or do I get to gripe about it now 10 years later?
Because I've been told by members of this forum that I'm not allowed to comment on "certain types" of bigotry because it "seemed so sudden" so I am just wondering when the expiration date of "not being able to show concern" is.
I want to note it in my calendar.
Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)The SMART system which logs this automatically. The paper requirement is for the infrequent and emergency use of a private email. It's in the report. I wonder if you will read that. Nah, too much work
YouDig
(2,280 posts)She still kept her emails, so in the end it doesn't matter.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Read it
YouDig
(2,280 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)At this point you are looking quite ignorant. The apendix... A few actually, will explain the possible legal peril as well. Don't worry, that is not their job. But do worry,it is the FBI's to recommend those. This is not a nothing burger.
Oh and a cog would be facing 35 to life
YouDig
(2,280 posts)people used private emails, and none of them are facing 35 to life. You are in a fantasy world.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)The is not minor
scscholar
(2,902 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)As well as the rest of the staff with DOJ lawyers present
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)Or are you saying she is smart but made it a point not to read all the minor technical red tape rules so she could play stupid?
YouDig
(2,280 posts)notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)Not very smart or lazy? You decide.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)It's ---------------------------------------way----->
over there.
treestar
(82,383 posts)like when the Department of Commerce audits people - there are going to be mistakes. They just correct them and suggest better ways of keeping up. Any Department will audit - for instance the bar may audit lawyer's trust accounts. They will always find the lawyer doing some little thing wrong and will just tell them how to fix it.
The Department of Education may keep track of student records - they find mistakes and fix them. No one gets arrested.
This is the problem with exaggerating everything to death. Nobody running a huge department will always be doing things exactly right, especially now - the new technology and how to best use it is in flux everywhere.
COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)Add than many people think the rules are too strict and there's minor violations by the thousand happening all the time.