2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumAIDS activist says Bernie attacked him personally
Explained here on his facebook and Twitter
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10209785927224369&set=a.1191034335491.2028973.1217362611&type=3&theater
https://twitter.com/peterstaley/status/736396087850860544
Please read peoples posts and lets discuss.
What do you think about what he is doing?
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)SpareribSP
(325 posts)Last edited Sat May 28, 2016, 06:03 AM - Edit history (1)
dropped the ball here. Seems like the AIDS activist is worried that lowering costs of the drug will produce a shortage? Seems like there was a misunderstanding and might have been mishandled by some Bernie people as they got overly defensive. Hope they can patch it up and people explain it better, because the argument seems complicated on both sides.
Edit: Seems like on re-reading and learning more there are some issues with the story here, and the Bernie side is better than I initially thought.
Tavarious Jackson
(1,595 posts)A few days ago the Sanders campaign announced they had an endorsement from this group. It was a public announcement on their website. The group says they never endorsed Bernie and asked the campaign to take down the info from the website. If you look at his facebook a couple of days ago you will see.
Response to Tavarious Jackson (Reply #3)
TM99 This message was self-deleted by its author.
Response to SpareribSP (Reply #2)
Post removed
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Keep blasting that dog sousaphone there, Clinton supporters.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Ash_F
(5,861 posts)Where did you read this?
I did not see an explanation on Mr. Staley's facebook or twitter, though at least one person asked him directly.
SpareribSP
(325 posts)the only one that even sort of made sense, even though it kind of didn't. It bugs me that it wasn't explained further, because I think everyone in general things that further access to generics (which the bill covers) makes sense.
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)And he did indeed receive funding from several pharmaceutical companies, including the one mentioned.
It appears his website lead people to their medications.
That does not mean he is a bad guy, but he really should explain why he is against the bill.
http://www.stoppharmagreed.com/motivesopponents/
SpareribSP
(325 posts)I should have read a bit more before commenting!
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)Last edited Sat May 28, 2016, 07:15 AM - Edit history (1)
I have been told by other activists about how corporations will attempt to "co-opt the movement".
So this is it in action.
Response to Tavarious Jackson (Original post)
TM99 This message was self-deleted by its author.
SpareribSP
(325 posts)Cheers. I didn't quite understand why Staley was worried about the price reductions because it wasn't totally spelled out, and it does bring it into question a bit.
Tavarious Jackson
(1,595 posts)Someone should be either fired or have a mental exam.
Tavarious Jackson
(1,595 posts)Response to Tavarious Jackson (Reply #7)
TM99 This message was self-deleted by its author.
Tavarious Jackson
(1,595 posts)Response to Tavarious Jackson (Reply #12)
TM99 This message was self-deleted by its author.
Tavarious Jackson
(1,595 posts)Here is the story
Bernie Sanders meets with AIDS activists in California, issues misleading press release backing a CA drug-pricing initiative that many AIDS activists oppose; implies (emphasis on *implies* - read the press release, which is linked below) (or maybe, "creates the impression" that the prime business of the meeting with AIDS activists was to rally around the dodgy bill
A lot of backstory:
So there's an initiative on the California ballot next November, The California Drug Price Relief Act, whose ostensible purpose is to lower the price of prescription drugs for CA citizens.
It "was designed to restrict the amount that any state agency could pay for drugs, tying it to the price paid by the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs" (https://ballotpedia.org/California_Drug_Price_Relief_Initia
).
(The Veterans Dept "is widely cited as paying the lowest prices in the nation" (http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/
/
/20160417/NEWS/160419778) [Subsequent quotes from this article marked "Santa Cruz"]).
http://americablog.com/2016/05/aids-activists-blast-sanders-lying-meeting.html
SpareribSP
(325 posts)Tavarious Jackson
(1,595 posts)AIDS advocates requested he take it down..
SpareribSP
(325 posts)The part where Bernie shouldn't be pursuing the ballot measure was never explained.
Tavarious Jackson
(1,595 posts)disagree with it. They met with Bernie to try to change his mind about it but no go. I see it's Bernie's superpac.
National Nurses United
Response to Tavarious Jackson (Reply #15)
TM99 This message was self-deleted by its author.
Tavarious Jackson
(1,595 posts)Seems like groups are getting added to the list who do not actually back it.
Response to Tavarious Jackson (Reply #17)
TM99 This message was self-deleted by its author.
akbacchus_BC
(5,704 posts)Waste of time to argue with you!
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)It's actually very good.
barrow-wight
(744 posts)Yes, the Bernie campaign press release absolutely gave off the vibe that he was there pushing for the bill in question and it also gave off the vibe that it was something everyone was onboard with. The activists' response letter was justified if, as they say, they were not onboard with this bill for whatever reason. Moreover, the response from the policy person on Bernie's campaign was so unbelievably rude and personal that I can't believe people aren't more outraged. This campaign is an embarrassment.
Tavarious Jackson
(1,595 posts)barrow-wight
(744 posts)The person that responded to Peter is part of the campaign. I've been clicking through some of the tweets and other posts. I really wish the Bern would just Bern out. He's determined to turn into a total freak all the way down his long fall.
Tavarious Jackson
(1,595 posts)National Nurses United is a Bernie superpac. Quid Pro Quo a le fiou'
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)Can anyone explain or have a link?
PS - I did read the letter but it is not in there.
Tavarious Jackson
(1,595 posts)Ash_F
(5,861 posts)Tavarious Jackson
(1,595 posts)Ash_F
(5,861 posts)Tavarious Jackson
(1,595 posts)I suppose he will have some excuse sure.
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)Sanders is for the measure.
Do you read the articles you post?
Tavarious Jackson
(1,595 posts)I thought you meant Bernie was against Staley's measure.
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)Why is Mr. Staley against the California ballot measure?
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...rinse, lather, repeat...
Pfffft.
Jack Bone
(2,023 posts)joshcryer
(62,287 posts)The main thing was that there is not yet a consensus with all the AIDS activists groups within CA and that basically, my interpretation, Sanders mislead with his endorsement of the initiative, implying that the May 25th meeting had agreed to support it.
Their concerns mainly question how the act will effect Medi-cal
http://www.projectinform.org/hiv-policy/concerns-about-the-california-drug-price-relief-act-initiative-15-0009/
What they seem to be pissed off about is that they got leapfrogged and dumped from the stakes. They want to be at the table.
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)I just learned.
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)joshcryer
(62,287 posts)That only covers fucking 2.5% of the AIDS Walk. Fucking criminal big pharma companies. I don't know how they sleep at night taking $50k from Chevron. Their people working to raise money for, you know, fucking promotional events for HIV/AIDS education are scum of the earth. Managing to get a grant from Gilead Sciences, of almost 300k, my god, those shills. Who would've thought the worlds leading HIV and Hep A-C pharmaceutical would dare give them money. Fuck that, it doesn't even cover a third of the annual AIDS walk. Why take it!
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)That's about 733k a year
joshcryer
(62,287 posts)So you get a grant from Merck because they have some outreach program that they are giving to outreach non-profits, you automatically are considered a shill for big pharma.
They averaged about 200k from Gilead Sciences, which, again, doesn't even cover the cost of the annual AIDS walk.
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)4.4 million is a lot of organized money.
There seems to be a lot more organizations that are for the bill.
joshcryer
(62,287 posts)This is beyond ludicrous.
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)36% in 2013
That would be tough to replace.
I wonder what it will be in 2016?
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)joshcryer
(62,287 posts)As an HIV/AIDS advocacy group, since back in the 80s it was considered a death sentence and no one should do anything for it.
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)I am still not seeing a cogent argument against this bill.
joshcryer
(62,287 posts)...that doesn't make me dismiss their concerns outright. I read their concerns about how it would affect Medi-Cal and I think that they should at least have a say in how it is implemented so that those services don't go away. In particular, I think there should be guarantees about cost savings.
libtodeath
(2,888 posts)bvf
(6,604 posts)of "looking silly."
Really. Literally doesn't know what those particular words mean.
QC
(26,371 posts)joshcryer
(62,287 posts)What were they thinking.
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)joshcryer
(62,287 posts)What an absurd attempt to smear him.
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)And it was not just Gilead but several companies.
joshcryer
(62,287 posts)Fucking pharmas and their HIV/AIDS treatments. Did you know big pharma makes hundreds of millions of dollars?
Why don't you go read Peter's downright apocalyptic anger at Gilead Sciences for their shady shit.
He was a third party to this and it's total garbage to tie him to shady business practices of big pharma as a whole. Downright nasty. You should be ashamed.
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)I read the Project Inform page. It is not a good argument.
Maybe Staley had a falling out with Gilead since back then. If that is the case, it does not serve well to point to their front organization and say that is his argument.
But it looks like he was cooperating with Project Inform? Maybe he does not know they get money from Gilead?
I feel like he would know.
joshcryer
(62,287 posts)And you know you did. You're not coming here with good faith, you looked for the answer as to why something was bad before you even took the effort to read it. And now you're arguing in circles about how terrible these activists are for taking grant money that is going to go to someone because it's in big business' interest to do outreach shit. I mean, fuck, Wallgreens, they gave Project Inform some money, likely right out of their local outreach grants. Probably to pay off their rich pharmacy guys or something.
Staley resold Gilead's drugs. His "connection" is tenuous at best. He's pissed off with Gilead for selling a $40,000 drug here but the same drug, which they manufacture, is sold for $400 overseas. You're not going to get him agreeing with Gilead's shady business practices.
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)And before I found out who funds it. You know what they say about assumptions.
Their bullet points are vague and convoluted.
There are many, many organizations that support this law.
As for Mr. Staley, only he can speak for himself. He has not really touched on why he is against it. I checked his facebook and twitter.
I wonder where Clinton stands on the measure?
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)Maybe you saw that somewhere I did not.
His website said they were his "sponsor". There is a distinction there that is important.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)They completely ignored her:
https://shiksappeal.wordpress.com/2016/05/18/berned-by-bernie-sanders/
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)The guy has been paid by the pharmaceutical companies for at least 16 years.
Makes perfect sense when you think about it.
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)Tavarious Jackson
(1,595 posts)but the unraveling begins.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)The political version of Scientology,every dissenter who's suspected of disloyalty to Sanders needs to be brought down and accused of working for the enemy. What a way to go out.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)There are other campaigns that have used similarly divisive tactics and rhetoric to try to accomplish hostile takeovers of left-wing third parties but this is the first one I'm aware of that's tried to hustle the Democratic party.
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)Read this
http://www.stoppharmagreed.com/motivesopponents/
Follow the money
joshcryer
(62,287 posts)...you've lost the fucking way. It's beyond absurd.
Jester Messiah
(4,711 posts)Just something I've noticed; they seem to start their shit somewhere around post 360. Something in the standard operations manual that says build up to around that level before beginning troll ops?
Tavarious Jackson
(1,595 posts)You will see the fall from grace.
Jester Messiah
(4,711 posts)And a shill.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)And anyone who disagrees is a paid shill.
Buddyblazon
(3,014 posts)any less dubious.
Just cuz you stick a feather up your butt it doesn't make you a chicken.
islandmkl
(5,275 posts)all the posts that refute your premise and intended smear are not answered with anything but more bullshit and obfuscation...
you are working it hard, i'll give you that...
Tavarious Jackson
(1,595 posts)Do you think it's presidential to respond like this?
angstlessk
(11,862 posts)Former Mexican president Vicente Fox is fiercely opposed to his country paying for the massive wall that Donald Trump wants to build on the border between their two countries, saying in an interview that Trump is "a crazy guy" and "a false prophet" who should not be elected president.
"I'm not going to pay for that f------ wall," Fox said in an interview with Fusion's Jorge Ramos that was posted online Thursday afternoon. "He should pay for it. He's got the money."
AND he WAS a popular president of Mexico.