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Octafish

(55,745 posts)
Fri May 27, 2016, 08:06 PM May 2016

Pardon Hillary!



President Obama, please.

In all seriousness, just say you forgive her for setting up her own email system outside the reach of FOIA.

However, any crime, hanky panky or shenanigans they contain or reveal is another matter. Corruption in office is unforgivable.
93 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Pardon Hillary! (Original Post) Octafish May 2016 OP
Sure Obama, destroy your legacy with a pardon now! BillZBubb May 2016 #1
Bush pardoned Scooter. Octafish May 2016 #8
Message auto-removed Name removed May 2016 #28
Not quite pardoned hootinholler May 2016 #40
Thanks! See one Aspen and you've seen 'em all. Octafish May 2016 #47
One doesn't get a pardon unless one violates the law. She didn't, doesn't need one. George II May 2016 #2
Where did you get that? On second thought don't tell us. rhett o rick May 2016 #9
OK, so why all the secrecy? Octafish May 2016 #11
No, guilt or innocence is determined via a trial. That's the way it works in this country. George II May 2016 #14
True. So, why the secrecy? Octafish May 2016 #17
I really don't know, but I wouldn't characterize what she's said/done as "secrecy". Now... George II May 2016 #18
History. Take Phil Gramm, Glass-Steagall and UBS. Octafish May 2016 #20
Totally irrelevant. Now, I'll ask again: George II May 2016 #21
The Clintons mix official business and personal business. Octafish May 2016 #23
One more time: George II May 2016 #24
Truth matters. Octafish May 2016 #25
You didn't answer the original question in this meta... tex-wyo-dem May 2016 #52
Dump her first, and then pardon her. leveymg May 2016 #29
I knew someone would pull that one out.........and the analysts back then agreed that by accepting.. George II May 2016 #13
LOL, weird no one has closed the investigation. nt Logical May 2016 #15
Getting a bit ahead of yourself, aren't you, George? bvf May 2016 #45
I doubt they need my help. They've already determined that no laws were violated. George II May 2016 #53
They did? The FBI already determined that no laws were violated? frylock May 2016 #55
Why should Obama trash his legacy to save her campaign? HooptieWagon May 2016 #3
Good point. As it stands, there is a cloud, admittedly of her own making, over her campaign. Octafish May 2016 #32
She may have to wait for President Sanders to pardon her lagomorph777 May 2016 #38
He shouldn't, but the corporate interests that lie behind both Obama and HRC may tell him to do so. stillwaiting May 2016 #51
I can forgive her... dubyadiprecession May 2016 #4
keep reading nt grasswire May 2016 #5
I can forgive her, too. Octafish May 2016 #33
They absolutely were. There is no official evidence but it's guaranteed. Bob41213 Jun 2016 #83
You're comparing e-mail-gate to Iran Contra? TwilightZone May 2016 #6
Would Ford-Nixon work for you? Octafish May 2016 #7
So Huma broke into Trump Towers to steal data from the Trump campaign? emulatorloo Jun 2016 #79
No, Libya. For oil and gold. Octafish Jun 2016 #85
Nope. I guess it's funny because you don't get the OP. LOL. nm rhett o rick May 2016 #10
Maybe Bernie can pardon her next year. senz May 2016 #12
He has empathy and compassion, rare qualities in Washington DC since Reagan. Octafish May 2016 #26
This message was self-deleted by its author Marr May 2016 #16
Pardon Hillary? Did she burp? George II May 2016 #19
Maybe president Trump will pardon her Vote2016 May 2016 #22
I hadn't thought of that possibility... Octafish May 2016 #27
that would make a lot of sense reddread May 2016 #34
Wouldn't so turning to an authoritative man be the ultimate feminist failure? HereSince1628 May 2016 #30
I had not considered that. Thanks! It was meant more as a collegial thing. Octafish May 2016 #35
Poppy pardoned himself as well PeoViejo May 2016 #31
Poppy Rode to His Own Rescue Octafish Jun 2016 #74
I've always wondered about the Hinkleys PeoViejo Jun 2016 #93
I read what she did was not prohibited. seabeyond May 2016 #36
Yes, you may have read that in her statements - but not in the actual OIG report. lagomorph777 May 2016 #39
Yes... In the report. Is it not true? It is prohibited? seabeyond May 2016 #41
Failing to keep records has been prohibited since 1950 lagomorph777 May 2016 #42
The report says no rule or law was broken. seabeyond May 2016 #48
Wrong, it says this: lagomorph777 May 2016 #60
Ty, I will have to do research. I appreciate it. I swear I read a number of times, seabeyond May 2016 #62
Probably did but it was a source related to HRC. Bob41213 Jun 2016 #84
And I read "The Martian Chronicles." Next? n/t bvf May 2016 #49
So it wasn't in the report she broke no rule or law? Simple question. seabeyond May 2016 #56
Link. Now. bvf May 2016 #58
Link NOW! Pretty fuckin demanding because I asked a fuckin question... Ya think! NOW my ass! seabeyond May 2016 #61
Leading question. bvf May 2016 #63
A question, but fuck the rude right dude... Right fuckin now! seabeyond May 2016 #64
Link. Now. bvf May 2016 #65
You have problems... seabeyond May 2016 #68
The problem is all yours, and her name is Clinton. bvf May 2016 #69
Yada yada yada. seabeyond Jun 2016 #70
What a predictably disgusting response. bvf Jun 2016 #76
Omg... You are an hoot. seabeyond Jun 2016 #80
Anyone who can "yada yada yada" bvf Jun 2016 #81
Anyone that attributes death to argue your candidate is, well.... Whatever. I am so tired of seabeyond Jun 2016 #82
Go get some rest. You need it, clearly. bvf Jun 2016 #90
What an absurd response. seabeyond Jun 2016 #91
Hey, you were the one saying you were tired. bvf Jun 2016 #92
I am 100% for a full pardon for Hillary with one condition. gordianot May 2016 #37
President Clinton the 1st sure was busy on his last day in the WH, I beg your pardon wise , Sir! bobthedrummer May 2016 #43
Seven more days per the owner of this site, fourteen on the outside. DemocratSinceBirth May 2016 #44
How do you feel about lobbyists serving as Superdelegates? Octafish May 2016 #46
Skinner is well aware that the voting isn't over bvf May 2016 #50
Thank you. Skinner is TOPS. Octafish May 2016 #54
Have you forwarded this info to James Comey? frylock May 2016 #57
Sorry, can't go along with that. Waiting For Everyman May 2016 #59
She doesn't require a pardon. She broke no laws. (eom) StevieM May 2016 #66
Perhaps. But if you take the time to read the law... Octafish Jun 2016 #75
Convict her first and then we can talk pardon. pdsimdars May 2016 #67
Not what I meant, exactly. Octafish Jun 2016 #73
Get 'em in while you still can... SidDithers Jun 2016 #71
How authoritarian. What does it matter to you? Octafish Jun 2016 #72
Yes this just like Iran/Contra. Hillary has asked the Ayatollah to hang on to Anerican Hostages emulatorloo Jun 2016 #77
Actually, I was trying to find a way forward without sinking the Democratic campaign. Octafish Jun 2016 #86
Nice, but I think you are getting a little a head of yourself. emulatorloo Jun 2016 #88
You can say that or you can say I'm looking ahead. Octafish Jun 2016 #89
Why. Did she fart? cherokeeprogressive Jun 2016 #78
All Secretaries do it. Pretzeldents, too. Octafish Jun 2016 #87

BillZBubb

(10,650 posts)
1. Sure Obama, destroy your legacy with a pardon now!
Fri May 27, 2016, 08:12 PM
May 2016

Don't think so. She broke the law with that setup. Going outside the reach of the FOIA is a crime.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
8. Bush pardoned Scooter.
Fri May 27, 2016, 08:48 PM
May 2016
The Aspens -- a Forest, cloned from one tree, connected by their roots.



Scooter Libby, in an email to Steno Judy Miller of NYT:

"Out West, where you vacation, the aspens will already be turning," Mr. Libby wrote. "They turn in clusters, because their roots connect them."

http://warisacrime.org/node/3677

Scooter got a pardon. Judy got a new job. Bush and Cheney walk free. How's Gov. Siegelman doing these days?

Response to Octafish (Reply #8)

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
47. Thanks! See one Aspen and you've seen 'em all.
Tue May 31, 2016, 12:08 PM
May 2016


Like Scooter Libby reminded Judy Miller, then an imprisoned NYT reporter, they're all connected underground.

Notice they're white where they show.
 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
9. Where did you get that? On second thought don't tell us.
Fri May 27, 2016, 08:49 PM
May 2016

Wikipedia disagrees with you.

"On September 8, 1974, president of the United States Gerald Ford issued Proclamation 4311, which gave Richard Nixon a full and unconditional pardon for any crimes he might have committed against the United States while president."


Note the key words, "for any crimes he might have committed"

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
11. OK, so why all the secrecy?
Fri May 27, 2016, 08:52 PM
May 2016

Why the need to go around official review?

What was on those missing emails?

Did she use her position at State to drum up business for companies in which she held an interest?

These are just a few questions that need to be answered before guilt or innocence can be determined.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
17. True. So, why the secrecy?
Fri May 27, 2016, 09:14 PM
May 2016

Her rationale has changed over the last year. What is she hiding from Obama, let alone the FBI?

George II

(67,782 posts)
18. I really don't know, but I wouldn't characterize what she's said/done as "secrecy". Now...
Fri May 27, 2016, 09:22 PM
May 2016

....why are you folks so bound and determined to come up with dirt/scandals/damage about Hillary Clinton?

What's the point, what you you hope to accomplish by all of this, what is the motivation? Do you think there is ANY possibility that hundreds of delegates will change from Clinton to Sanders in the next two months and give him the nomination?

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
20. History. Take Phil Gramm, Glass-Steagall and UBS.
Fri May 27, 2016, 10:03 PM
May 2016

UBS is a Swiss bank that is enjoying better days, thanks to the US taxpayer and a number of key US political leaders.





Hillary Helps a Bank—and Then It Funnels Millions to the Clintons

The Wall Street Journal’s eyebrow-raising story of how the presidential candidate and her husband accepted cash from UBS without any regard for the appearance of impropriety that it created.


by CONOR FRIEDERSDORF, The Atlantic, JUL 31, 2015

The Swiss bank UBS is one of the biggest, most powerful financial institutions in the world. As secretary of state, Hillary Clinton intervened to help it out with the IRS. And after that, the Swiss bank paid Bill Clinton $1.5 million for speaking gigs. The Wall Street Journal reported all that and more Thursday in an article that highlights huge conflicts of interest that the Clintons have created in the recent past.

The piece begins by detailing how Clinton helped the global bank.

“A few weeks after Hillary Clinton was sworn in as secretary of state in early 2009, she was summoned to Geneva by her Swiss counterpart to discuss an urgent matter. The Internal Revenue Service was suing UBS AG to get the identities of Americans with secret accounts,” the newspaper reports. “If the case proceeded, Switzerland’s largest bank would face an impossible choice: Violate Swiss secrecy laws by handing over the names, or refuse and face criminal charges in U.S. federal court. Within months, Mrs. Clinton announced a tentative legal settlement—an unusual intervention by the top U.S. diplomat. UBS ultimately turned over information on 4,450 accounts, a fraction of the 52,000 sought by the IRS.”

Then reporters James V. Grimaldi and Rebecca Ballhaus lay out how UBS helped the Clintons. “Total donations by UBS to the Clinton Foundation grew from less than $60,000 through 2008 to a cumulative total of about $600,000 by the end of 2014, according to the foundation and the bank,” they report. “The bank also joined the Clinton Foundation to launch entrepreneurship and inner-city loan programs, through which it lent $32 million. And it paid former president Bill Clinton $1.5 million to participate in a series of question-and-answer sessions with UBS Wealth Management Chief Executive Bob McCann, making UBS his biggest single corporate source of speech income disclosed since he left the White House.”

The article adds that “there is no evidence of any link between Mrs. Clinton’s involvement in the case and the bank’s donations to the Bill, Hillary and Chelsea Clinton Foundation, or its hiring of Mr. Clinton.” Maybe it’s all a mere coincidence, and when UBS agreed to pay Bill Clinton $1.5 million the relevant decision-maker wasn’t even aware of the vast sum his wife may have saved the bank or the power that she will potentially wield after the 2016 presidential election.

SNIP...

As McClatchy noted last month in a more broadly focused article that also mentions UBS, “Ten of the world’s biggest financial institutions––including UBS, Bank of America, JP Morgan Chase, Citigroup and Goldman Sachs––have hired Bill Clinton numerous times since 2004 to speak for fees totaling more than $6.4 million. Hillary Clinton also has accepted speaking fees from at least one bank. And along with an 11th bank, the French giant BNP Paribas, the financial goliaths also donated as much as $24.9 million to the Clinton Foundation––the family’s global charity set up to tackle causes from the AIDS epidemic in Africa to climate change.”

CONTINUED...

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/07/hillary-helps-a-bankand-then-it-pays-bill-15-million-in-speaking-fees/400067/



About UBS Wealth Management

It's Buy Partisan

After his exit from the US Senate, Phil Gramm found a job at Swiss bank UBS as vice chairman. He later brought on former President Bill Clinton. What a coincidence, they are the two key figures in repealing Glass-Steagal. Since the New Deal it was the financial regulation that protected the US taxpayer from the Wall Street casino. Oh well, what's a $16 trillion bailout among friends?



It's a Buy-Partisan Who's Who:

President William J. Clinton
President George W. Bush Heh heh heh.
Robert J. McCann
James Carville
John V. Miller
Paula D. Polito
Anthony Roth
Mike Ryan
John Savercool

SOURCE: http://financialservicesinc.ubs.com/revitalizingamerica/SenatorPhilGramm.html

One of my attorney chums doesn't like to see his name on any committees, event letterhead or political campaign literature. These folks, it seems to me, are past caring.

Some of why DUers and ALL voters should care about Phil Gramm.



The fact the nation's "news media" hasn't really followed this story should also be of great concern as the world is a very small oyster for the wealthy as it is. Imagine what one could do combined with the powers of the Department of State?

To me, Obama has been strangely neutral. Especially considering how he treats whistleblowers who expose government criminality.

George II

(67,782 posts)
21. Totally irrelevant. Now, I'll ask again:
Fri May 27, 2016, 10:05 PM
May 2016

Why are you folks so bound and determined to come up with dirt/scandals/damage about Hillary Clinton?

What's the point, what you you hope to accomplish by all of this, what is the motivation? Do you think there is ANY possibility that hundreds of delegates will change from Clinton to Sanders in the next two months and give him the nomination?

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
23. The Clintons mix official business and personal business.
Fri May 27, 2016, 10:39 PM
May 2016

Perhaps hiding the emails from prying eyes would make that easier to accomplish.

George II

(67,782 posts)
24. One more time:
Fri May 27, 2016, 10:55 PM
May 2016
Why are you folks so bound and determined to come up with dirt/scandals/damage about Hillary Clinton?

What's the point, what you you hope to accomplish by all of this, what is the motivation? Do you think there is ANY possibility that hundreds of delegates will change from Clinton to Sanders in the next two months and give him the nomination?

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
25. Truth matters.
Sat May 28, 2016, 06:28 AM
May 2016

Judgment matters.

Integrity matters.

I don't know about you or anybody else, but they do to me.

tex-wyo-dem

(3,190 posts)
52. You didn't answer the original question in this meta...
Tue May 31, 2016, 12:36 PM
May 2016

Why all the secrecy? What is she trying to hide?

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
29. Dump her first, and then pardon her.
Sat May 28, 2016, 08:03 AM
May 2016

But, only on condition she agrees never to again run for public office. The rest will take care of itself.

George II

(67,782 posts)
13. I knew someone would pull that one out.........and the analysts back then agreed that by accepting..
Fri May 27, 2016, 08:53 PM
May 2016

...that pardon, Richard Nixon all but admitted that he committed crimes.

 

bvf

(6,604 posts)
45. Getting a bit ahead of yourself, aren't you, George?
Tue May 31, 2016, 12:00 PM
May 2016

If you have information yet to be discovered, perhaps the FBI would appreciate your input.

 

HooptieWagon

(17,064 posts)
3. Why should Obama trash his legacy to save her campaign?
Fri May 27, 2016, 08:18 PM
May 2016

She's an adult, and responsible for her actions. Needing a rescue from herself proves she's unfit for office.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
32. Good point. As it stands, there is a cloud, admittedly of her own making, over her campaign.
Tue May 31, 2016, 09:28 AM
May 2016

A pardon would free her to campaign with the "official" seal of approval from the administration.

What she did or didn't say in the missing emails will no longer matter.

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
38. She may have to wait for President Sanders to pardon her
Tue May 31, 2016, 09:39 AM
May 2016

and that would be a good reason to throw her support behind Bernie.

I doubt Trump would pardon her.

stillwaiting

(3,795 posts)
51. He shouldn't, but the corporate interests that lie behind both Obama and HRC may tell him to do so.
Tue May 31, 2016, 12:25 PM
May 2016

If he wants to ensure he gets paid a la the Clintons did after Bill's stint in the White House (and HRC's Senatorial/SOS positions), he would probably do as they tell him.

To keep Bernie away from the nomination, I believe at least SOME entrenched corporate interests would tell him to do so if needed. HRC has served TPTB very, very loyally throughout her life. The message MUST be continued to be sent that if you do this, you will be safe from repercussions for just about any actions. Above the law. So, I would think there is a high likelihood that TPTB would find a way to continue to send that message.

I believe HRC believes that would be the likely outcome as well (which would explain why people like her in powerful situations continue to do outrageous things if they thought they could get away with it even if caught).

The status quo is unbelievably corrupt.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
33. I can forgive her, too.
Tue May 31, 2016, 09:30 AM
May 2016

What I can't forgive is treason. That, of course, includes aiding the enemy in a time of war, but also corruption in office, as Adlai Stevenson, Jr. put it.

Bob41213

(491 posts)
83. They absolutely were. There is no official evidence but it's guaranteed.
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 10:28 AM
Jun 2016

Security on the server was a joke. I've seen no one with cyber security knowledge claim it was "secure." There's a rumor an 8 year old hacked in. Any foreign government who tried got in. The Chinese would seen the big orange neon sign a month after she became SOS. IT WAS HACKED GUARANTEED.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
7. Would Ford-Nixon work for you?
Fri May 27, 2016, 08:44 PM
May 2016

My idea was to get past the emails to what they contain. Right now, we don't know about a lot of them.

Response to Octafish (Original post)

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
30. Wouldn't so turning to an authoritative man be the ultimate feminist failure?
Sat May 28, 2016, 08:06 AM
May 2016

Not that HRC hasn't been provided many opportunities by authoritative men, but really this would be tremendously ironic for this campaign

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
35. I had not considered that. Thanks! It was meant more as a collegial thing.
Tue May 31, 2016, 09:33 AM
May 2016

A pardon would free the conversation, so to speak.

As things stand, there is a cloud over the candidate.

 

PeoViejo

(2,178 posts)
31. Poppy pardoned himself as well
Sat May 28, 2016, 08:31 AM
May 2016

since he was VP at the time and subject to prosecution. Hillary sees this as the only escape: Pardon those involved, including herself and thus, gets a get out of jail card and the records are sealed forever; well maybe... lol.

This is what happens when crimes in office are not prosecuted.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
74. Poppy Rode to His Own Rescue
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 09:20 AM
Jun 2016


That didn't disqualify his Dim Son, in the minds of American voters and those who pay them to think that way.

Reagan was shot in March 1981 and for all intents and purposes was a walking vegetable afterward.

Through a Glass Darkly

Alexander Cockburn
Lies Of Our Times (p. 12-13)
November 1991

What was surprising to me was Reagan’s condition. He was exhausted to the point of incoherence throughout much ofthe interview and could not remember the substance of any subject that had been discussed apart from Mitterrand’s expression of anticommunism. I had not seen Reagan at such close rangesince the assassination attempt nearly four months earlier, and was shocked at his condition.... Reagan simply was unable to recall the contents of the talks in which he had just participated.... The interview concluded at a signal from Deaver,who did not seem to find the president’s condition unusual.”

Thus ran Lou Cannon’s recollections of an interview with the Commander-in-Chief in 1981, as set forth in his book President Reagan: The Role of a Lifetime (New York: Simon & Schuster,1991), published earlier this year. But how did Cannon describe Reagan’s condition to the readers of the Washington Post when he wrote up his interview? In the July 23, 1981, Washington Post,Cannon’s story appeared under the headline “Reagan Describes Summit Meeting as ‘Worth Its Weight in Gold.’ ” Cannon’s report gives the impression of a lucid chief executive returning home after a fruitful colloquy with other western leaders at the economic summit held in Ottawa in mid-July. Cannon did mention in the tenth paragraph that “Reagan appeared tired to the point of near-exhaustion,” but this observation was quickly qualified by the opinion of “aides” that the president had been doing a lot of prep for the conference and was also worried about the Middle East.

Cannon shared his brief session with Reagan aboard Air Force One with Hedrick Smith of the New York Times, who similarly gave his readers the impression of a president in touch with things rather than the incoherent old man they had actually encountered. As did Cannon, Smith wove the few quotable remarks from Reagan into a tapestry of attributed presidential dicta passed on — and no doubt confected— by Meese, Deaver,and Speakes. It is clear from Cannon’s account of the conference itself that Reagan was fogged up throughout the actual conference, occasionally interjecting trivial observations or homely jokes into the proceedings and then relapsing into bemused silence. Cannon’s memoir is one more indication of the cover-up that took place in the wake of Hinckley’s assassination bid on March 30, 1981. At the time of the shooting, the press was full of phrases like “bouncing back,” “iron constitution,” and other terms indicating that Reagan had emerged from the ordeal in good shape. In fact Reagan very nearly died on the operating table and was a dotard afterwards. He never fully recovered.

Conclusion: Unless a president is actually dead, the WhiteHouse press corps can be relied upon to present him as both sentient and sapient, no matter how decrepit his physical and mental condition.

SOURCE in PDF form:

http://liesofourtimes.org/public_html/1991/Nov1991%20V2%20N10/Nov1991%20V2%20N10.pdf


Mentally isn't physically. So he remained VP and used the opportunity to get appointed a Super Duper Presidential Helper.


George Bush Takes Charge: The Uses of ‘Counter-Terrorism’

By Christopher Simpson
Covert Action Quarterly 58

A paper trail of declassified documents from the Reagan‑Bush era yields valuable information on how counter‑terrorism provided a powerful mechanism for solidifying Bush's power base and launching a broad range of national security initiatives.

During the Reagan years, George Bush used "crisis management" and "counter‑terrorism" as vehicles for running key parts of the clandestine side of the US government.

Bush proved especially adept at plausible denial. Some measure of his skill in avoiding responsibility can be taken from the fact that even after the Iran‑Contra affair blew the Reagan administration apart, Bush went on to become the "foreign policy president," while CIA Director William Casey, by then conveniently dead, took most of the blame for a number of covert foreign policy debacles that Bush had set in motion.

The trail of National Security Decision Directives (NSDDS) left by the Reagan administration begins to tell the story. True, much remains classified, and still more was never committed to paper in the first place. Even so, the main picture is clear: As vice president, George Bush was at the center of secret wars, political murders, and America's convoluted oil politics in the Middle East.

SNIP...

Reagan and the NSC also used NSDDs to settle conflicts among security agencies over bureaucratic turf and lines of command. It is through that prism that we see the first glimmers of Vice President Bush's role in clandestine operations during the 1980s.

SNIP...

NSDD 159. MANAGEMENT OF U.S. COVERT OPERATIONS, (TOP SECRET/VEIL‑SENSITIVE), JAN. 18,1985

The Reagan administration's commitment to significantly expand covert operations had been clear since before the 1980 election. How such operations were actually to be managed from day to day, however, was considerably less certain. The management problem became particularly knotty owing to legal requirements to notify congressional intelligence oversight committees of covert operations, on the one hand, and the tacitly accepted presidential mandate to deceive those same committees concerning sensitive operations such as the Contra war in Nicaragua, on the other.

[font color="green"]The solution attempted in NSDD 159 was to establish a small coordinating committee headed by Vice President George Bush through which all information concerning US covert operations was to be funneled. The order also established a category of top secret information known as Veil, to be used exclusively for managing records pertaining to covert operations.

The system was designed to keep circulation of written records to an absolute minimum while at the same time ensuring that the vice president retained the ability to coordinate US covert operations with the administration's overt diplomacy and propaganda.

Only eight copies of NSDD 159 were created. The existence of the vice president's committee was itself highly classified.
[/font color] The directive became public as a result of the criminal prosecutions of Oliver North, John Poindexter, and others involved in the Iran‑Contra affair, hence the designation "Exhibit A" running up the left side of the document.

CONTINUED...

CovertAction Quarterly no 58 Fall 1996 pp31-40.



So that's how the rich got richer and the rest of found happiness through austerity. And friends of Poppy got ahead for ever and ever.

Old story for you, OF. Shocker for those who can pull themselves away from their smartphone or the chocolate desert fountain at Golden Corral.
 

PeoViejo

(2,178 posts)
93. I've always wondered about the Hinkleys
Thu Jun 2, 2016, 08:53 AM
Jun 2016

Having had business dealings with the Family. They were definitely in on the retaliation. I could always tell when someone had been briefed. Sometimes one has to do something totally outrageous to find out who their real friends are.

They are definitely members of the 'Club.'

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
39. Yes, you may have read that in her statements - but not in the actual OIG report.
Tue May 31, 2016, 09:41 AM
May 2016

Best to go to original sources for the important stuff.

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
60. Wrong, it says this:
Tue May 31, 2016, 01:55 PM
May 2016

"Secretary Clinton used mobile devices to conduct official business using the personal email
account on her private server extensively, as illustrated by the 55,000 pages of material making
up the approximately 30,000 emails she provided to the Department in December 2014.
Throughout Secretary Clinton’s tenure, the FAM stated that normal day-to-day operations
[145 12 FAM 625.2-1 (April 12, 1996); 5 FAM 751.2 (February 27, 2002).
146 5 FAM 871 (December 30, 2002).]
should be conducted on an authorized AIS,147 yet OIG found no evidence that the Secretary
requested or obtained guidance or approval to conduct official business via a personal email
account on her private server. According to the current CIO and Assistant Secretary for
Diplomatic Security, Secretary Clinton had an obligation to discuss using her personal email
account to conduct official business with their offices, who in turn would have attempted to
provide her with approved and secured means that met her business needs. However, according
to these officials, DS and IRM did not—and would not—approve her exclusive reliance on a
personal email account to conduct Department business, because of the restrictions in the FAM
and the security risks in doing so. "

Foreign Affairs Manual (FAM) is not like the owner's manual for your refrigerator. It is the RULEBOOK.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
62. Ty, I will have to do research. I appreciate it. I swear I read a number of times,
Tue May 31, 2016, 02:17 PM
May 2016

From a number of sources that it was not prohibitive.

Bob41213

(491 posts)
84. Probably did but it was a source related to HRC.
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 10:32 AM
Jun 2016

She and her people have been spouting lies for a long time on this.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
61. Link NOW! Pretty fuckin demanding because I asked a fuckin question... Ya think! NOW my ass!
Tue May 31, 2016, 02:14 PM
May 2016
 

bvf

(6,604 posts)
63. Leading question.
Tue May 31, 2016, 02:21 PM
May 2016

But you knew that, even though you may not be familiar with the term.

Link. Now.

 

bvf

(6,604 posts)
69. The problem is all yours, and her name is Clinton.
Tue May 31, 2016, 11:16 PM
May 2016

The more you embrace her, the more likely you'll wind up with another, named President Trump.

Either way, we'll all be dealing with plenty more war dead, but you seem to be OK with that.





 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
82. Anyone that attributes death to argue your candidate is, well.... Whatever. I am so tired of
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 10:19 AM
Jun 2016

Sanders people accusing any Clinton supporter of simply loving killing babies and women. What is that? Shame on you!

 

bvf

(6,604 posts)
92. Hey, you were the one saying you were tired.
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 02:12 PM
Jun 2016

If you don't know what that means, it lends even more weight to my advice.

Be sure to give that straw man of yours a big kiss goodnight, now.

Pleasant dreams.


gordianot

(15,253 posts)
37. I am 100% for a full pardon for Hillary with one condition.
Tue May 31, 2016, 09:38 AM
May 2016

She never be granted access to confidential and secret information ever again.

 

bobthedrummer

(26,083 posts)
43. President Clinton the 1st sure was busy on his last day in the WH, I beg your pardon wise , Sir!
Tue May 31, 2016, 11:55 AM
May 2016

Bill Clinton pardon controversy (Wikipedia)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton_pardon_controversy

No one is above the law, even the one percenters that bought and corrupted the whole shebang, Sir!

K&R

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,719 posts)
44. Seven more days per the owner of this site, fourteen on the outside.
Tue May 31, 2016, 12:00 PM
May 2016
Star Member Skinner (61,708 posts)
1. When the voting is over the primary is over on DU.

This has gone on long enough. Once the voting is done I have no interest in pretending everyone doesn't already know the outcome.

My opinion is that Donald Trump represents an unprecedented threat to this country, and I have no interest in providing a platform for people to act like a Trump presidency isn't such a big deal. I have permitted it during primary season because many people seem determined to pretend we live in a fantasyland where Republicans don't exist -- but once the primary is over reality sets in and we can no longer afford to ignore our Republican opponent.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/125910453

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
54. Thank you. Skinner is TOPS.
Tue May 31, 2016, 01:08 PM
May 2016

He's never told me what to write or not write.

I gotta admit, I've been surprised at the level of animosity from certain quarters. DUers I'd long considered friends have done all they could to get me angry, writing I am:

Mysoginistic
Racist
Homophobic
Conservative Stooge
Illiterate
Unscientific
Conspiracy Theorist

I imagine they want to see me write something "unforgivable" in return.

I save them the trouble by sticking to the facts. Perhaps that bothers them more than anything.

Waiting For Everyman

(9,385 posts)
59. Sorry, can't go along with that.
Tue May 31, 2016, 01:54 PM
May 2016

There should be one law, not two. There are people doing time for less than she did. I don't agree that they should be either, but pardoning her doesn't set them free.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
73. Not what I meant, exactly.
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 09:08 AM
Jun 2016

In the USA, no one is above the law. In reality in the USA, there is one set of rules for those with lots of money and another for those without money. A pardon would somehow maintain the fiction, like Congress and Bill Clinton's administration going along with the Supreme Court's 5-4 decision in 2000.

A pre-emptive pardon would be in regards to using an email server outside official channels. That way, we can focus on the rest of the campaign without that distraction.

Were criminality revealed in the emails themselves or in their distribution -- some of which are reported to include classified information -- that is another matter.

Either way, it'd be good politics to get things resolved ahead of the convention. Of course, the said part is Democracy continues to lose ground.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
72. How authoritarian. What does it matter to you?
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 08:59 AM
Jun 2016

As you claim to be Canadian, you won't vote for anybody in any US primary or general election, including Hillary.

So, why do look forward to shutting down discussion?

Is it a hobby of yours? Are you paid to do so?

Either way, it is undemocratic.

emulatorloo

(44,268 posts)
77. Yes this just like Iran/Contra. Hillary has asked the Ayatollah to hang on to Anerican Hostages
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 10:01 AM
Jun 2016

until after the 2016 Election. In the meantime congress has forbidden we go to war with Canada, and Huma has been selling arms to Iran in order to wage a secret war there. The parellels are endless.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
86. Actually, I was trying to find a way forward without sinking the Democratic campaign.
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 10:39 AM
Jun 2016

If the president does pardon the secretary for running an off-the-books email system contrary to department regulations and the spirit, if not the letter of FOIA, it would open a big can of worms.

If he doesn't pardon the secretary, it also would open a big can of worms.

Either way, it's good to be prepared.

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