2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumWill Bernie give back delegates to conform to Washington primary vote totals? Clinton 54%
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/1857/11/washington-primary-bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton/484313/?preview=Sr5dG80pNO20P61h4ABEZNMQwGo&utm_source=atlfb
Washington voters delivered a bit of bad news for Bernie Sanderss political revolution on Tuesday. Hillary Clinton won the states Democratic primary, symbolically reversing the outcome of the states Democratic caucus in March where Sanders prevailed as the victor. The primary result wont count for much since delegates have already been awarded based on the caucus. (Sanders won 74 delegates, while Clinton won only 27.) But Clintons victory nevertheless puts Sanders in an awkward position.
Sanders has styled himself as a populist candidate intent on giving a voice to voters in a political system in which, as he describes it, party elites and wealthy special-interest groups exert too much control. As the primary election nears its end, Sanders has railed against Democratic leaders for unfairly intervening in the process, a claim he made in the aftermath of the contentious Nevada Democratic convention earlier this month. He has also criticized superdelegateselected officials and party leaders who can support whichever candidate they chosefor effectively coronating Clinton.
As Sanders makes those arguments, he runs up against a few inconvenient realities. He trails Clinton in the popular-vote count and has performed well in caucuses, which consistently witness depressed voter turnout relative to primary elections. What happened in Washington is a painful reminder of this for the campaign: Far more voters took part in Washingtons Democratic primary than its state caucus, preliminary counts indicate. Roughly 230,000 people participated in the Democratic caucus, The Stranger reported in March. In contrast, more than 660,000 Democratic votes had been tallied in the primary as of Tuesday, according to The Seattle Times. That lopsided reality makes it more difficult for Sanders to argue that his candidacy represents the will of the people.
But based on Washington caucuses, Bernie was awarded 74 delegates and Clinton 27. But if you go by the Washington primary popular vote Clinton won 54% to Bernie's 46%. So if you go by the primary popular vote the delegates should be awarded, Clinton: 55, Sanders: 46.
So, will Bernie bow to the voters and give Clinton the delegates she should get based on the vote of the people of Washington?
Ha-ha-HA. DON'T BET ON IT!
msongs
(67,361 posts)highprincipleswork
(3,111 posts)mythology
(9,527 posts)The rules were simple. The caucus counted and the primary didn't. Granted having both seems like a giant waste of money, but changing the rules in the middle is stupid and unfair.
Sanders is able to get his supporters to the polls in caucuses much better than Clinton for whatever reason. She also struggled in them against Obama.
Response to mythology (Reply #14)
artislife This message was self-deleted by its author.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Skwmom
(12,685 posts)KPN
(15,637 posts)Totally discount that the WA vote was artificial, without meaning and therefore absent incentive to turn out unless you happened to want to register your symbolic protest of the landslide caucus results, why don't you?
Bill USA
(6,436 posts).. candidate they are fake votes. Wow!
KPN
(15,637 posts)No! It didn't count, it wasn't real. It wasn't a real primary vote ... is that better?
You folks are just being absolutely ridiculous in trying to make that case. Sanders won the Washington primary in a landslide. It wasn't even close. If they had held a vote instead of a caucus, Bernie would have won that in the same landslide -- just like he won Oregon.
You have the front-runner, but you're obviously not comfortable with the lead. Why else would you run with idiotic claims like this one?
Bill USA
(6,436 posts)KPN
(15,637 posts)look up a couple of basic things: WA State official primary results (Bernie carried 73% of the vote), and #of registered voters in WA (230,000 is a tiny fraction of the nearly 5.4 million registered in 2014).
Bernie supporters didn't waste their time with the symbolic vote that WA held last week to complete the Republican primary.
But go ahead and enjoy the fantasy.
Tarc
(10,472 posts)"the superdelegates should be bound to the state result!"
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)insisted upon that right by suing the State when the State wanted a primary instead. So the Democratic Party allots delegates using the caucus, by their own choice. I thought Team Hillary was never critical of Party choices, that they found the very idea of questioning practices in the States to be an act of wild eyed rebellion.
Tarc
(10,472 posts)Yes, rules are rules, so even though by a fair one-person-one-vote system showing that Washington St. prefers Hillary, they have to abide by the silly & antiquated caucus results. It is what it is.
Rules are also rules for superdelegates, so every time some Berniefan has a hissy fit over, say, Al Franken endorsing Hillary despite Sanders winning Minnesota, they have no leg to stand on. I mean, we already knew they had no leg to stand on, but this reinforces the point.
Response to Bill USA (Original post)
silvershadow This message was self-deleted by its author.
woolldog
(8,791 posts)silvershadow
(10,336 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)to allot their delegates. They made a case in court that they should be allowed to do so. This is why they have a caucus, the Party wanted it that way. How could they then allot delegates according to a Primary outcome they have litigated to make moot?
This is a very strong criticism of the Party you offer here. You accuse them of countering the will of the people when just days ago, in Nevada, Camp Clinton was claiming to BE the Party, loyal to the core. Apparently that is not the case at all.
BzaDem
(11,142 posts)super-delegates (who are permitted by the rules to vote for whomever they please) vote for the candidate that won a much higher-turnout primary. Goose, gander, etc.
(Of course, one can complain about anything. But such complaints shouldn't expect to be taken seriously.)
tritsofme
(17,371 posts)Caucuses are unrepresentative and undemocratic, they do not allow a secret ballot, and disenfranchise huge numbers especially working people. This is not an acceptable method for choosing a Democratic nominee. All states should hold primary elections.
R B Garr
(16,950 posts)26,000 caucus participation
Over 700,000 in the primary.
As one Washington TV station clip shown on Maddow said last night, obviously more people are comfortable mailing in a ballot than showing up to a caucus.
No one should be subjected to potential hostility and intimidation at a caucus that makes them stay home. And that doesn't even cover those that just can't take time off of work, or any other reasons they can't caucus.
Commander Keen
(10 posts)You can thank the WA Legislature for overriding the voters' intent for a primary.
You can't exactly make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)He cannot give away delegates allocated according to party rules, but he could rage from the stage at the un-democratic "rigging" that handed dozens of Washington's delegates to the wrong candidate--him. Shouldn't he? We won't be holding our breaths, though.
Washington may just switch to a primary system after this, however, and that's good.
R B Garr
(16,950 posts)Give them back, Bernie!
More people voted for Hillary, so be good to your word and give up your delegates to reflect the real percentages.
Time for change
(13,714 posts)There are too many witnesses at a caucus. I think that's the reason that Bernie has done so much better in caucuses than in primaries this year. Until we develop a secure system of vote counting, I think all our contests should be caucuses rather than primaries.
Vattel
(9,289 posts)That assumption is enormous and, of course, self-serving.
GreatGazoo
(3,937 posts)73% to 27% still seems generous for Hillary considering....
Response to Bill USA (Original post)
NowSam This message was self-deleted by its author.
aspirant
(3,533 posts)Hills tried the same nonsense in 2008 with Michigan and Florida by claiming their primary votes counted.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)ThePhilosopher04
(1,732 posts)Also further evidence that computer voting is rigged.