2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumI was a Hillary hater until I read her e-mails.
This article is a few months old, but it bears re-publishing now that more and more Sanders supporters are "trying to get excited about Hillary" as one such person put it.
http://bluenationreview.com/i-was-a-hillary-hater-until-i-read-her-emails/
Her tenure as Secretary of State, of course, led to the bogus email scandal, which in turn led to the slow-drip release of the emails on her home server. I decided I was going to read them.
In those emails, I discovered a Hillary Clinton I didnt even know existed.
I found a woman who cared about employees who lost loved ones. I found a woman who, without exception, took time to write notes of condolence and notes of congratulations, no matter how busy she was. I found a woman who could be a tough negotiator and firm in her expectations, but still had a moment to write a friend with encouragement in tough times. She worried over people she didnt know, and she worried over those she did.
And everywhere she went, her concern for women and children was clearly the first and foremost thing on her mind.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)procon
(15,805 posts)You create that fiction because can't bring yourself to accept the fact the Hillary is winning because more people like what she has to say and they voted for her. It must stick in your craw that so many women are choosing to invest in Hillary's leadership because she's the best chance we've ever had at achieving parity and equal rights for women.
While you're wrapped up in defending the picturebook image of a perfect candidate who exemplifies your vision of idealistic purity, Democrats have left you in the lurch and have concentrated on supporting the winning Democratic leader. Unlike the angry and bitter Sanders, Hillary has proven her ability to be flexible, open minded and willing to embrace to new ideas. You lot call that "flip-flopping", I believe, but reasonable people appreciate her efforts to transition with critical cultural changes and not stay locked in the same rigid views for 50 years.
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)Yeah, the slime who smeared Anita Hill and now runs a SuperPAC funded by Hillary's campaign.
procon
(15,805 posts)These transparent games of 6 degrees of separation and all the various convoluted paranoid plots find closer similarities in rightwing forums than whatever one Democrat might write to compliment a fellow Democrat. Look, you imagine there is some mass collusion involving tens of thousands of news sources that are all out to get Sanders just because they -- oh, the horror! -- published something uncritical about Hillary, or you overreact to a piece of benign, maudlin prose to the point of looking unhinged and delusional.
You have no credible news sources left -- none -- because at some point they have all managed to find some not-so-negative thing to say about Hillary and that makes you lot see yell foul and claim its everything from rank hearsay to proof of treason. You're down to chain emails and bloggers who pass around complimentary odes to Sanders, so go read those safe and lovely stories and congratulate one another for being such free thinkers.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)And he's the man the Clintons chose as their hatchet man. That's 1 degree of separation.
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)That's genuinely hilarious. The man who runs a SuperPAC which has been heavily funded by Hillarys campaign owns this news site. A site he uses to distribute heavily pro-Clinton 'news' articles. All of this is proven and factual.
procon
(15,805 posts)Don't ever read anything you don't like, if it frightens you that much. You're describing Pravda, a safe source that matches your views where you can read all those juicy Hillary-did-something stories, you know, like the stuff that litters all the rightwing websites. Look, there are progressives, and then there are progressives who aren't so delicate that they feel threatened by mere words or intimidated by people they they disagree with... and the latter is definitely not you.
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)procon
(15,805 posts)A commonly shared trait amongst any type of fundamentalists is their insistence that anyone whos not 100% onboard with their views must be part of some coordinated, mass conspiracy to silence and suppress them. You can watch it being repeated in almost every thread in this section when anyone even casually mentions Hillary without also genuflecting to Sanders -- PBUH -- there is this immediate pile on by wave after wave of accusations that everyone is has been bought off and its all rigged. That's you there.
Your so called movement is withering away, hollowed out from the inside and replaced with nutty conspiracies and fears of being criticised for dancing around Sanders one-plank platform.
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)Yet you want to pretend other people are the ones being naive and delusional. Ok then, you keep telling yourself that.
Response to procon (Reply #23)
artislife This message was self-deleted by its author.
LonePirate
(13,431 posts)They grasp onto anything they can to disprove or discredit that person or that person's words so that their world view is restored to its proper order in their mind.
GreatGazoo
(3,937 posts)pmorlan1
(2,096 posts)When he hacked her emails he was won over by them. That's why he is now pleading guilty.
Loudestlib
(980 posts)In the email, Pagliano wishes Clinton a "Happy Birthday" and "many more!" Rather than responding to Pagliano, however, Clinton forwarded the email to then-Special Assistant to the Secretary of State, Robert Russo, with a curt "Pls. respond."
Yurovsky
(2,064 posts)How refreshing...
randome
(34,845 posts)EVERY President is confronted with this possibility. Bully for you for being the 'expert' on all things.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]
Yurovsky
(2,064 posts)War is not the answer...
randome
(34,845 posts)What many fail to understand is that it is always a tough decision on whether or not to deploy force. (Unless your name is Bush, Jr.) Boots on the ground would mean a lot more civilians would die.
Drones...not so much. A commander-in-chief has to weigh the numbers. Sanders did.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]
TwilightZone
(25,505 posts)He said that he hoped that he'd have better aim.
MariaThinks
(2,495 posts)attacking innocent civilians.
puffy socks
(1,473 posts)Yurovsky
(2,064 posts)Nm
puffy socks
(1,473 posts)doesn't change the facts.
polly7
(20,582 posts)MariaThinks
(2,495 posts)polly7
(20,582 posts)Those countries were not at war with anyone, women had rights ...... children could play hours a day outside without being droned. I'm not a supporter of PNAC, wouldn't have pushed for the atrocity in Iraq, enriching the MIC and weapons makers, haven't got a Foundation taking millions to allow weapons for Saudi-Arabia and Qatar to cluster bomb small Yemeni children with, don't use a private server and a blacklisted civilian with which to create lies to take to the UN to destroy yet one more sovereign nation (7 countries in 5 years!) for empire and greed.
I wouldn't have cut wages in half for starving Haitians, or supported a coup in Honduras, or proposed another 'no-fly-zone' in Syria exactly like the one lied for to destroy Libya, create a vacuum for which IS and Boko Haram to fill to kidnap, rape and burn people alive wherever they chose, or caused the horrendous migrant crisis leaving tens of thousands dying at sea and millions suffering in refugee camps with women and children being raped, tortured and literally in some cases, being purposefully starved to death.
I'd have left them the fuck alone.
MariaThinks
(2,495 posts)don't use a private server and a blacklisted civilian with which to create lies to take to the UN to destroy yet one more sovereign nation (7 countries in 5 years!) for empire and greed
polly7
(20,582 posts)MariaThinks
(2,495 posts)polly7
(20,582 posts)vintx
(1,748 posts)Especially given the exchange between you two just now.
polly7
(20,582 posts)Everything she did was a 'choice'. These countries did not invite the economic and military terrorism that has ruined them. The reasons weren't altruistic, humanitarian or for any other reason but to further enrich the vulture corporations, banks and individuals, MIC and weapons makers that all profited hugely once mission accomplished, to establish more western dominance and to ensure independence didn't allow them to control their own resources.
I really wonder why some choose not to read at all.
vintx
(1,748 posts)JudyM
(29,294 posts)records transparency in order to protect herself and her corrupt foundation from scrutiny, as long as she wrote nice notes to people.
brush
(53,949 posts)Fuddnik
(8,846 posts)Had he exposed these programs under a Bush presidency, he would be hailed around here as a national hero. Since it happened on Obama's watch, he becomes a traitor.
Snowden should be the next National Security Advisor.
brush
(53,949 posts)you charged that Clinton compromised national security yet Snowden did exactly that when he revealed details of his own country's international covert operations.
Talk about compromising national security, that's it in a nutshell.
Now to be clear, I support Snowden's revelations on NSA domestic spying. He should be commended for that, but he should have stopped there.
Giving up details of our international covert operations is akin to sedition.
How do you rationalize being against Clinton but for Snowden?
Sounds like hypocrisy to me.
mikehiggins
(5,614 posts)If anyone reveals anything that goes against the official story that is not sedition.
Pentagon Papers?
My Lai?
Abu Grave (spelling?)
All of these revealed the lies motivating US policies. Are all those involved traitors?
If I know the US is doing illegal and illicit things regarding our "allies" am I a traitor for publicizing them or is it okay to turn a blind eye to such abuses?
That is not patriotism, that is moral bankruptcy.
brush
(53,949 posts)and of course all other nations will too.
Naivete to the umpteenth degree. Just silly.
brush
(53,949 posts)Naivete is not the best quality for a progressive.
Response to JudyM (Reply #4)
artislife This message was self-deleted by its author.
MariaThinks
(2,495 posts)AgerolanAmerican
(1,000 posts)what a sweet guy
jzodda
(2,124 posts)Comparing Clinton to a fictional criminal mob boss?
Great Just great
Response to LAS14 (Original post)
Dem2 This message was self-deleted by its author.
LAS14
(13,789 posts)1monster
(11,012 posts)others RWNJ are more likely to score to right on the scale than the people they are calling RWNJ?
To the left of the Dalai Lama and more left than most of the so-called "progressives" here.
But enjoy your little fantasy world in which destroying the lives of my family is cool cuz "purity".
1monster
(11,012 posts)I don't go 'round calling people RWNJ.
Dem2
(8,168 posts)I didn't call anybody that, it was just a general statement - funny that.
Logical
(22,457 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)polly7
(20,582 posts)cut in half in an already desperately impoverished country.
http://news.groopspeak.com/hillarys-state-department-pressured-haiti-not-to-raise-minimum-wage-to-61-an-hour/
jeff47
(26,549 posts)I've had that happen too. Frustrating.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)that would lower their minimum wage $3 to 4.25/hr. That was two days ago.
vintx
(1,748 posts)And Bernie stands in sharp contrast.
Segami
(14,923 posts)continue.....
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Here's what the emails showed to me:
Hillary Clintons State Department Emails, Mexicos Energy Privatization and the Revolving Door
By Steve Horn
DeSmogBlog/TruthDig, Aug 13, 2015
Emails released on July 31 by the U.S. State Department reveal more about the origins of energy reform efforts in Mexico. The State Department released them as part of the once-a-month rolling release schedule for emails generated by former U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, now a Democratic presidential candidate.
Originally stored on a private server, with Clinton and her closest advisors using the server and private accounts, the emails confirm Clintons State Department helped to break state-owned company Pemexs (Petroleos Mexicanos) oil and gas industry monopoly in Mexico, opening up the country to international oil and gas companies. And two of the Coordinators helping to make it happen, both of whom worked for Clinton, now work in the private sector and stand to gain financially from the energy reforms they helped create.
The appearance of the emails also offers a chance to tell the deeper story of the role the Clinton-led State Department and other powerful actors played in opening up Mexico for international business in the oil and gas sphere. That story begins with a trio.
The Trio
David Goldwyn, who was the first International Energy Coordinator named by Secretary of State Hillary Clinton in 2009, sits at the center of the story. As revealed by DeSmog, the State Department redacted the entire job description document for the Coordinator role.
Goldwyn now runs an oil and gas industry consulting firm called Goldwyn Global Strategies, works of counsel as an industry attorney at the law firm Sutherland Asbill & Brennan, and works as a fellow at the industry-funded think tanks Atlantic Council and Brookings Institution.
CONTINUED w/links...
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/hillary_clinton_state_department_emails_mexico_energy_reform_20150813
Money trumps peace. And war is a racket. Nice little country you have here. It'd be a shame if something were to happen to it.
edgineered
(2,101 posts)most everyone alive is under the impression that she took the cloth to them.
scscholar
(2,902 posts)And the fact that we've read them proves them to be liars. They lied and said they were deleted when it is obvious that is a lie. What kind of person believes a lie like that? When you see something then someone claims it doesn't exist, those people have to be insane. It's like the rising mercury. They see the mercury, but they don't believe the mercury.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)For starters, people that actually understand how email systems work and that you can "delete" your email all day long but all you are doing is removing the pointers within the database not the content.
Those kind of people certainly know how to retrieve email despite amateurish attempts to get rid of them, but then amateurish is the only word that can be used to describe the server in the basement bathroom closet.
hamsterjill
(15,224 posts)Sarcasm, of course! Go, Hillary!
I'm SO sick of the efforts to destroy this woman. These efforts have been ongoing for decades now, and she's still standing. That's why she gets my vote!
Beacool
(30,253 posts)"I found a woman who cared about employees who lost loved ones. I found a woman who, without exception, took time to write notes of condolence and notes of congratulations, no matter how busy she was. I found a woman who could be a tough negotiator and firm in her expectations, but still had a moment to write a friend with encouragement in tough times. She worried over people she didnt know, and she worried over those she did."
.......
"The Hillary caricature you see in the press is not the Hillary Clinton I came to know by reading those emails."
That's how I have always felt. Hillary is a great person, she's not the caricature portrayed by the media and her enemies.
frylock
(34,825 posts)Vattel
(9,289 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)Member since: Tue Feb 9, 2016, 06:20 PM
Number of posts: 1,086
Number of posts, last 90 days: 949
Favorite forum: General Discussion: Primaries, 401 posts in the last 90 days (42% of total posts)
Favorite group: Hillary Clinton, 454 posts in the last 90 days (48% of total posts)
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)See the tender side of a woman, who between destabilizing countries and promoting war across the globe; liked to worry over people she didn't know, and was really concerned for women and children too....a lot.
See the heartwarming story this Christmas on Lifetime TV!
Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #30)
artislife This message was self-deleted by its author.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)CharlotteVale
(2,717 posts)MariaThinks
(2,495 posts)GreatGazoo
(3,937 posts)or used as fodder for Brock's propaganda.
Vinca
(50,322 posts)Buzz cook
(2,474 posts)more than they like Bernie Sanders.
It goes way back to the 90s.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)LAS14
(13,789 posts)lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)Sorry, that's a crime in itself - it demonstrates intent.
LAS14
(13,789 posts)lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)http://www.bizpacreview.com/2015/08/13/hillary-insider-stripped-top-secret-markings-from-emails-state-dept-source-tells-fox-236871
http://dailycaller.com/2016/01/08/bombshell-email-shows-hillary-instructed-adviser-to-strip-markings-from-sensitive-talking-points/
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)and you'd have a legitimate source.
LAS14
(13,789 posts)Or are you one of those that rejects anything said by vetted professionals?
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)I just hope they get it done soon, and we can all stop worrying about it. Or start.
LAS14
(13,789 posts)lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)pnwmom
(109,020 posts)And if you are concerned about that, you should be outraged about the .gov servers that allowed hundreds of thousands of non-classified emails to be hacked by the Chinese and Russians.
beachbumbob
(9,263 posts)America..OMG..don't let sanders followers know that!!!!!
Response to LAS14 (Original post)
pmorlan1 This message was self-deleted by its author.
vintx
(1,748 posts)B Calm
(28,762 posts)Lucinda
(31,170 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)let her spend her life advancing the interests of women and children in some otehr capacity.
She is too tied into a corrupt and abusive political elite to be a good president. And she may be too polarizing to get elected.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)on feelings and emotions? That's just embarrassing
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)...especially the ones she turned into widows and orphans.