2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumHow to Increase Bernie’s Negatives
Put yourself in the shoes of David Brock. You have a tough job. You have to somehow increase Bernies negatives. Your problem is that your standard tools, like opposition research, are not producing any actionable intelligence on Bernie. In an ironic twist, the candidate you need to take down doesnt have many skeletons in the closet.
But David Brock is a professional, and hes teaching us a magic trick: if you cant move the candidates negatives directly, you can still affect the numbers indirectly by adjusting the negatives of the candidates colleagues or supporters.
What this teaches us is that *any* candidates negatives can be affected. All it takes is money and coordination. You need to be able to rely on a handful of journalists and pundits to stick to the talking points, and they have to be pretty skilled at acting. Even if they arent particularly good at acting, at minimum they must stick to the script like a magnet, just keep saying the same thing.
Im sorry to report that Brocks efforts have had the desired effect. In my case, it is my brother-in-law: he was explaining to me that Bernie is imploding, stressing the violent behavior of the Bernie Bros in Las Vegas. I calmly explained that the empirical evidence doesnt jibe with the narrative, but he would have no part of it; he dismissed my analysis as a conspiracy theory.
As a progressive, I am a big fan of peace and justice. I think we all are. So it is very painful to and unnatural to take my emotions out of the picture and say touché to David Brock. While I strongly oppose his goals, I have to admit that his team has done an amazing job. He surprised me by doing something that is very difficult: he knocked Bernie off of his pedestal.
Renew Deal
(81,897 posts)Has there been a single case where someone has been behaving abusively and caught impersonating a Sanders supporter?
Most of these guys are happy to take credit
They were not. All of the men we spoke to were genuine Sanders supporters, most with well-documented histories online of feeling the Bern. (Although only their first names are used below and their phone numbers have been redacted, we verified all of their identities.)
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/pro-bernie-trolls-on-why-they-harassed-nevadas-democratic-chair-20160518
I wonder how many post here.
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)Renew Deal
(81,897 posts)BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)Renew Deal
(81,897 posts)At what point do you realize that maybe the problem isn't everyone else?
anotherproletariat
(1,446 posts)Back to canvassing for Hillary in an hour. The video on my phone worked wonders yesterday, so I'm bringing my iPad today!
MaeScott
(878 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Renew Deal
(81,897 posts)Is there any dispute about that?
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)This is what Hillary's campaign has come to. Systematic, pathological lying.
Renew Deal
(81,897 posts)And who did Rolling Stone speak with? And who craftily created the Bernie supporting online profiles that Rolling Stone discovered and the perpetrators admitted to just so they can be used for the Nevada convention?
Maybe everyone else isn't lying.
anotherproletariat
(1,446 posts)right?
MaeScott
(878 posts)lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)and it will not be pretty, because it's hitting the same week as some pretty bad e-mail news.
reddread
(6,896 posts)it all adds up, and they will not be able to contain the result.
anotherproletariat
(1,446 posts)As of yesterday, there were dozens of people saying chairs were thrown, and then a video that showed one chair being raised, but not thrown. This did not negate the eye witness accounts of other incidents. Was there something else that came out? A video of the entire melee, start to finish?
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)With hundreds of cameras in the room (cellphones and surveillance) that is proof enough
anotherproletariat
(1,446 posts)I'll continue to use the video while canvassing, and let the people decide for themselves.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)It's ludicrous to imagine that all those highly motivated videographers wouldn't have produced any video if something had actually happened.
gordianot
(15,253 posts)Negatives work. Poor deluded codger Ronald Reagan would be laughed off the stage if they tried his fluff piece "Morning in America" today.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Must now be some type of Brock gimmick.
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)Two days ago it was a-ok the way Bernie supporters acted because they'd been so wronged and were so righteously angry. But now it's all a Brock ploy.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)It's all lies
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)They screamed the place down, creating an atmosphere of hostility and volatility. They sent death threats. They released a woman's personal information on the internet. None of that is a lie.
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)and through manipulation of the media and constant repetition of distortions, turn that strength into a question mark.
For instance, on civil rights, Bernie is probably the one white candidate in our history who really was fully involved in the civil rights movement from its early stages. At the time, Hillary was marching for Goldwater. Hillary needed the AA vote because she got reamed by it in 2008. So, Brock went to work.
They started with the Capehart lie about Bernie not being in a civil rights protest photograph on his website. Pretty mild stuff, but using the friendly WaPo, they blew that up into a huge "issue". Of course it was Bernie, but enough doubt was sown to proceed. The next step was to get Hillary's AA supporters like civil rights icon John Lewis to cast doubt on Bernie's involvement. The final step was to get AA Hillary supporters to belittle and mock Bernie's true claim that he "marched with MLK". This was a classic swiftboating ala Rove (remember Kerry's very real Purple Heart medals?). And it worked.
You have grudging admiration for Brock. I have nothing but contempt for him and those who employ him
davidlynch
(644 posts)to try to look at what is really going on clearly. Instead of responding emotionally to this grave injustice, I can look at this with little emotion, just the next turn of events, one of many. Yesterday was bad for Bernie, but there are going to be good days ahead. There are going to be twists where the anvil drops on Hillary's head as well. Try to remain objective and focus on the best thing you can do to help Bernie today, whether it be writing another OP or making a contribution. And know in your heart that there will be a lot of justice ahead if we're patient.
Jennylynn
(696 posts)I don't think your bil was ever going to vote for Bernie anyway. People that are that unreasonable....
beachbumbob
(9,263 posts)His weak leadership, his disdain for democrats and our process and his inability to take control and responsibility for the mob he has created.....liberals are now recognizing what he is....and always has been...an angry old socialist....most of us democrats really never been fooled by this man...
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)Congrats on that!
beachbumbob
(9,263 posts)Problem is you don't know how badly....the wheels feel off and sanders is now nothing more than spiteful old socialist unwilling to be accountable or responsible....supporters are leaving in droves...and suffering the attacks from bernies mob...
MaeScott
(878 posts)kstewart33
(6,551 posts)When all else fails, the response works every time.
Or used to.
anotherproletariat
(1,446 posts)pieces of his mob. Hopefully they will all go back into the holes they came out of. There is never going to be a viable candidate who agrees with their pure, uncompromising ideology.
ViseGrip
(3,133 posts)kstewart33
(6,551 posts)Simply go before the press, condemn what happened in Nevada and issue a call for civility to all of his supporters.
That would do it, and it would be good for his campaign.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)The solution is to ratfuck right back. Or, if your stomach can't handle their degree of douchebaggery, to simply tell the truth.
pengu
(462 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)is picked on, life is unfair, CHEATING.
Sanders is creating this. All by himself. Well, his supporters are helping.
KPN
(15,677 posts)At this point, it no longer matters who "started it" -- even if I have my opinions on that.
Bernie's campaign has been damaged by this. The Democratic Party has been damaged by this. Bernie will pay sooner. The Democratic Party will pay later -- maybe by November, but certainly 2020.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)... in the very next breath is really too much.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)She's a pro at that - she's even good at doing it to herself.
Blue_Adept
(6,402 posts)MaeScott
(878 posts)But if she were a good candidate, it wouldn't be necessary. Her negatives from this lying mess will take a hit, and not upwards.
Blue_Adept
(6,402 posts)It's an impressive use of funds! I can almost see one inside my keyboard as I type!
Kip Humphrey
(4,753 posts)Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)look through this thread and see the heartless responses. It's not hard to view this through the eyes of those that see their callous need to hurt those already hurting because their "message" is more important than the fellow man.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1982836
MaeScott
(878 posts)These New Dem/DLC have no love for progressives , see Rahm Emanuel. More of same.
asuhornets
(2,405 posts)Saying the system is rigged and that's why he is losing..Suing the DNC after his people viewed Clinton's voter database. Going after DWS, and the list goes on.
Waiting For Everyman
(9,385 posts)Bernie's campaign is more for thinking supporters. They know how to weigh differing reports and determine what's true.
Hillary's campaign is more for those who blindly follow. Your BIL sounds like one of hers from the get go.