2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumWhy I think Bernie should drop out.
Wherever the bulk of the blame for the current state of affairs lies- and you have your opinion and I have mine- at this point damage is being done.
The damage I'm personally most concerned with is the damage to this nascent movement and to Bernie. The two are closely linked at this point.
I don't want to argue about whether the movement/revolution exists- again, you have your opinion and I have mine. I don't and won't engage about Bernie's merits or flaws.
At this point, I don't see the point of his continuing to run. He cannot win. Period. Full stop. I know that if he concedes before June 7, millions of his supporters will be disappointed.
One thing I know about Bernie, is that he can be very stubborn. And it seems as if he's being reactive at this point. I sympathize.
What I'd like to see him do is concede, endorse and campaign for Hillary and raise money for down ticket races. Just think what a fundraising boost he could be for progressive candidates. I'd like to see him grow the movement and continue aiming the spotlight on the issues he's brought to the fore.
Bernie has contributed so much to the national dialogue, and windows of opportunity are unpredictable.
None of this changes my opinion of Hillary, but as I've said repeatedly, my bottom line is sanity. She is. Drumph isn't.
Bernie currently has the opportunity, should Hillary be elected, to be the loyal opposition when Hillary backtrack on issues like trade and regulation.
And that's all, folks. Savage away.
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LexVegas
(6,121 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)Take your cheap and dead wrong psychoanalysis and.... do something creative with it.
KPN
(15,677 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)
Tarc
(10,478 posts)For the most part, I've given up soda. Too sugary. But an occasional Moxie indulgence slips by on occasion.
cali
(114,904 posts)Maybe it's more of a Maine/NH thing now, shifting away from VT? I dunno, check Hannaford, you should have a million of those around.
MA the first 28 years of my life. OR the past 28 and a few other places in between. My heart's still in New England though.
Actor
(626 posts)and the "movement" can ultimately become the most important political happening in a hundred years or more.
I really really appreciate your posting this.
cali
(114,904 posts)
kstewart33
(6,551 posts)It's the movement. Build and organize the movement into something that produces results - election victories.
Actor
(626 posts)lewebley3
(3,412 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)lewebley3
(3,412 posts)Sanders has lost.
kstewart33
(6,551 posts)Both sides are free to post as they like.
peggysue2
(10,849 posts)We have to start coming together. Because otherwise we're looking at the unthinkable--The Donald in the WH. The writing has been on the wall for Senator Sanders for some time. He lost the nomination. He did better than anyone expected. But the continued delusion and rage serves no one but the Republicans in general and Donald Trump specifically.
So, thank you for this post. As Democrats, we need to move forward towards November. For everyone's sake.
kstewart33
(6,551 posts)
frylock
(34,825 posts)
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)Take a shit on someone's tacit endorsement of Hillary. Nice.
Skink
(10,122 posts)Some of us don't want HRC to win Cali.
cali
(114,904 posts)
Merryland
(1,134 posts)We are in it to win it, and we will if we keep the faith.
cali
(114,904 posts)The Second Stone
(2,900 posts)and then it will be over except for the chaos he can cause at the convention. Hillary will be locked with pledged delegates, but I expect the convention to devolve into a bunch of parliamentary obstructionism by the Broletariate, just like in Nevada.
Trump can be beaten (and he wants to be beaten), but we need to get on it.
Slackers of the world stomp feet! We have nothing to lose but the White House, The Senate and the Courts.
kstewart33
(6,551 posts)We have to come together.
We can't lose Obamacare, and all the progress in gay, civil and women's rights that have been made during Obama's terms. We can't lose a women's right to choose.
We lose it all if Trump is elected. And heaven help all of the immigrants in this country.
PJMcK
(22,069 posts)Codeine
(25,586 posts)but how will "faith" overcome her numbers?
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)There'll still be plenty of time for all you suggest after the primaries are concluded. Just look at 2008 where HRC stayed in til June. No harm and no foul occurred when she did it.
The point being, this is a democracy for all of us not just for some of us.
mountain grammy
(26,666 posts)
BeyondGeography
(39,393 posts)Unfortunately, I see a clenched fist inside this man that prevents him from making the most of his gifts. Too bad for us because his passion and principles are real and lord knows we can't have enough of that on the D team. But whether it's cynicism, pessimism or just plain anger, he gets in his own way.
Merryland
(1,134 posts)I think the clenched fist is exactly what we need. In the sense of latent strength & belief in the the rightness of our cause. And for me, there's no turning back at this point.
cali
(114,904 posts)BeyondGeography
(39,393 posts)
nolabels
(13,133 posts)All great things to the plans of mice and men
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)to support and maintain a corrupt establishment and candidate. 
No, It's not the mature thing to do. It's the easy thing to do. And the one thing we've learned this primary cycle is that HRC and her supporters do not like to do things that are difficult.
No! We can't!
Actor
(626 posts)Other than a couple of politicians, you simply cant and never have voted without putting them aside to one extent or another.
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)You can not pretend to speak for everyone
Actor
(626 posts)Who was elected and successful.
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)However, that soon faded once he took office.
Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #8)
artislife This message was self-deleted by its author.
BeyondGeography
(39,393 posts)Here's the comparison in a nutshell: She fought just as hard as Bernie in 2008, took a deep breath, nominated Obama at the convention, served as his Secretary of State for four years, and was rewarded by loyal Democrats (not what you would call a movement but something that can actually get you to the White House) with three million more votes (and counting) than her opponent who has played the role of the lone wolf in his 20-plus years in Washington.
Issues and corruption? The price of your precious movement being untainted just might be President Trump. But Bernie would still be pure.
Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #101)
artislife This message was self-deleted by its author.
still_one
(92,502 posts)supporters who have worked there hearts out for his campaign.
However, I think he should focus on running on the issues he believes in, and minimize the Clinton bashing he does at this stage.
cali
(114,904 posts)still_one
(92,502 posts)Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)Totally misguided and politically dangerous.
still_one
(92,502 posts)on the the issues
pinebox
(5,761 posts)I disagree. We need someone who fights for us and sorry millions won't support Hillary and personally I don't see Hillary as being sane when she is lying about everything and switching positions for political expediency.
Every week it's something new with Hillary and IMHO she can't be trusted. It isn't to say that Trump can be because he can't be either.
So where does that leave us? I'll tell you where, a convention fight. Polls are now showing Trump neck and neck with Hillary and in some he is shown beating her. You add that up on the convention floor with the facts millions will never support Hillary and Bernie has an argument because in the general, he is the stronger candidate.
If SD's don't see this, it will be a bloodbath for Dems in a general.
Merryland
(1,134 posts)that will probably come back and bite her in the ass.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)if Bernie were to take your advice - no bothersome thought needed if there is only one choice, if fact why should they even bother at all
he shouldn't drop out before convention.he should continue to be thawn in her side till then.
There is no place for progressives in Democratic party anymore.that has been clear during this primary session.many dems who claimed to be are frauds by supporting corporatist neocon clinton.
There will be no change.Clinton has already indiacted she cares nothing what bernie supporters think.she thinks she don't need us.
Clinton is just as much a enemy of all that bernie stands for and fights for as trump.eather one will be terrable for 99%
Bernie should go back to vermont after convention and leave establishment to their fate.they don't want him so why should he
do anything to help them.we need someone to fight trump or clinton In senate In 2017
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)He is currently damaging his chances to have any influence. Not only that, his current actions could harm the little influence he had.
There is a clear path forward for him that would garner him enormous clout. It is the exact opposite of what he is currently doing. His campaign is currently completely reactionary. Weaver and Sanders should have never left message. Why do politicians doing so well outthink themselves so often. He should have never left message.
Then again, one of Clintons well known tactics is to force her opponent off message. She is very good at it.
cali
(114,904 posts)And hilly's filthy practices will actually be a good thing in the general.
I still think that she may well manage to lose.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Some polls have even had his favorability upside down. Won't be long before he hits Clinton territory at the rate he is going. Not long at all.
I don't think Clintons practice is "filthy". lol. It is a part of any well organized campaign.
"I still think that she may well manage to lose. "
It's going to be a fight in the GE, that's for sure.
Actor
(626 posts)not just have influence but he will be able to wield it fluidly and everywhere.
I am a supporter of his and if NOTHING comes of all my work and your work and whatnot I will be terribly disappointed.
islandmkl
(5,275 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)islandmkl
(5,275 posts)at Fort Riley in Kansas for two summers....the mess halls were only used during the summer training periods...seated around 100, in rectangular one-room (seats and tables facing a 'chow line' kitchen that spanned about 1/4 of the room across the back) buildings with cinder-block-concrete 'foundations'...built early in WWII...had a 'planned usage lifespan' of 10 years.
They were only used constantly during WWII and for some time during Korea and a little bit for Viet Nam (new fort facilities had been built to take care of THAT influx of soldiers)...anyway, but the late-80s when i got contracted they were still in use...all equipment was updated (MIC $$ has to be used!) and i would feed 250 cadets every meal...this was the cadets only 'basic training' that spanned two summers...it's how they weeded out some of them who hadn't really had to play Army yet...it was a trip seeing the sergeants run these cadets through meals...after all, in two years (or one) these cadets would be officers and outrank all the training non-coms....so the sergeants made them earn it...
i asked an old-timer how old the buildings were and that's where i got the info...i asked him how something built in 1942 with a ten-year shelf life could still be used, systematically, 40+ years later...his answer:
"hell, they only use them 6 to 8 weeks a year now...they only count usage not longevity...these damn halls still have about 10 or 15 years of government use according to the way the Army counts things."
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)I enjoyed it. Still have about ten or fifteen years of government use... lol.
Prism
(5,815 posts)I want him to go into the convention with as much leverage as possible.
I never thought he'd win, but liberals need a voice. I want him all up in the platform and pinning Hillary to liberal ideas.
After California, he can drop and endorse. But I don't want the DNC to drum him out through their Bullshit.
Raster
(20,998 posts)Let's have a political convention for members and supporters of the Democratic Party, not a coronation for Queen Hillary.
Prism
(5,815 posts)Instead, we made it about us.
And boy are they pissed.
Let's keep them pissed.
Raster
(20,998 posts)2banon
(7,321 posts)sorry to see you take the bait. I'm in California, and we haven't voted yet, I live in one of the largest states and economies in the country (another example of a corrupted system is having California among the very last)
We're finally have our votes about to be counted... and you put out a call for him concede now?
mikehiggins
(5,614 posts)No point to arguing anymore. Sanders is in it to the last ballot, which by some definitions means the balloting at the convention.
I, for my part, admire the persistence of the Clinton supporters. They never give up struggling against the old Jew from Brooklyn/Burlington who has so far overcome a 60 point deficit at the beginning of this campaign (and the beginning of the attacks on him--"not good enough, Bernie"
.
So, no. We aren't going to quit until the "weight challenged human being" sings.
Notice how I have learned to avoid sexist, weight shaming terms. Thanks Hillbots.
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)But I wholeheartedly disagree on this. Bernie said he will stay in it to the end. He should keep that pledge no matter what. He has always been a man of his word and I do not want him to betray that.
Also, Bernie's supporters in California deserve to have the honor to vote for a great candidate who is still actively campaigning for our ideals. If he drops out, most will simply stay home. If he wins California, a message will be sent to Hillary that drifting back to her natural place on the right is not going to be a good move.
cali
(114,904 posts)what you're saying, but I honestly think that Hillary and company have no problem destroying Bernie any way they can. It's not just that I don't want that to happen to him, but I think it would effectively diminish the issues he's focused on and kill the possibility of growing this movement.
KoKo
(84,711 posts)That will be the news story and he will be vilified by the MSM/Talking Heads about "betraying those who voted for him."
He will have given away any chance at all for having his Vision of Reform come to fruition. Millions of voters will be terribly disappointed and many very angry and disillusioned.
I'm surprised that you don't take this into consideration.
joshcryer
(62,287 posts)He should ramp up the rhetoric until the last races, and when Clinton wins NJ on June 7th and when she wins CA later that night, he should come out in support of her for a well fought campaign, announcing that he now has the political delegate will to change the platform.
Then they spend the next couple of weeks talking behind closed doors about what perception they're going to send to the delegates at the convention.
At the convention Sanders gets to do an amazing speech about how he got X and Y and Z on the platform, and will call upon his own delegates to cheer and support Clinton.
And they will.
And it'll be glorious.
Merryland
(1,134 posts)there may be a different outcome...
joshcryer
(62,287 posts)Just like it did Obama.
beaglelover
(3,497 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)I doubt you see why it's both dim and offensive.
You said you were interested in being less divisive. You got half a compliment. If you are interested in being less divisive why not take it and declare victory?
It's not like you have that many victories to declare. Is it?
Not being sparky here although I can see how you might perceive it as such. Different perspective and all that.
cali
(114,904 posts)
Cary
(11,746 posts)But to some degree I am also complimenting you. I agree with your general proposition. As I said, you declared an intent to be less divisive so why not frame it in a less divisive way?
Half of a compliment is still half of a compliment. It's better than a whole insult. It's also something that can be built on, if you're truly intent upon being less divisive. Hey, you have to start somewhere, right? You know there's a lot of hard feelings going on here.
Cary
(11,746 posts)Just sayin you did some good here.
Raster
(20,998 posts)...the Hillarian/Brock bullshit and blather.
I'll see your condescending crap and raise you.
kstewart33
(6,551 posts)We've got to come together. If we don't, Trump wins.
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)would do as you say and help Bernie to raise money for down-ticket races and grow the progressive movement, then awesome. But I think most Bernie supporters would feel betrayed if he dropped out and his ability to raise money would be severely curtailed.
At this point, I don't mind if he stays in til the last primary, because I want Hillary to beat him fair and square. But I do wish he would point his rather fiery rhetoric at Drumpf rather than the presumptive nominee and the Democratic party.
You're right about the fact that damage is being done. Nevada was not good for Bernie's cause - the progressive movement he wants to start. Most people in this country don't want to be associated with a volatile-looking political movement. I'm not arguing about what actually happened in Nevada, just the optics. People see that stuff on TV and online and they start edging away. You don't want to look "fringe", you want to look like regular people who have a more-left version of politics. People can get behind that. They are unlikely to get behind "fringe" and "volatile".
Raster
(20,998 posts)...and in all actuality, may never even have been in the water. I would love to have seen an actual fair, equal, issues-oriented campaign, but it was the Hillary/Brock shysters that proved otherwise.
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)Hillary has run a comprehensive, strong campaign. There was nothing shady about it. She wanted to win and she has. Good for her.
cali
(114,904 posts)definitive proof. They've already raised a boatload for down ticket progressive dems. Btw, that subreddit is far, far more civil than DU.
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)If he were to concede early, that might change.
I will have to take your word for it. I don't Reddit.
dchill
(38,609 posts)Because it was Brocked up to be something that it was not, and ignored for what it really was. Anyone who believes otherwise is either a fool or a damn fool.
It was the press' most blatant smear-mongering escapade of the campaign. The bias is deep in the fabric.
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)And people are turned off by it. I wouldn't presume to speak for cali, but my guess would be that is what she means when she says she is worried about Bernie's reputation and the progressive movement.
dchill
(38,609 posts)of Hillary Clinton's. All the Brocking in the world couldn't do that. Seen those polls lately?
kstewart33
(6,551 posts)Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)MelungeonWoman
(502 posts)Bye, Cali.
Merryland
(1,134 posts)I think my grandpa was melungion - from Portsmouth Ohio. (also like Bernie very very much.)
H2O Man
(73,690 posts)I think that he needs to stay in until after the California primary. Also, as he has said that he is going to the convention, he should follow through on that. However, the approach he takes -- how he enters the convention -- is up to him. While I have my opinion of what he should do, I recognize that he is better at being Bernie Sanders than I am. I'll always have great respect for him, and appreciation for what he has done.
tularetom
(23,664 posts)And he needs to be a viable alternative when her legal issues catch up with her.
If, god forbid, she limps through to the nomination, the last thing he should do is campaign for her.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)Although I realize you were referring to what "Democrat" used to mean. 
It was once a genuinely liberal party (and thus initially attracted my registration, long abandoned until this race).
Of course, before that, "Democrat" often meant "Southern, pro-segregation conservative." Parties change over time...and this one has been dragged back to the center, with some of its members kicking and screaming (to no avail) the entire time.
stillwaiting
(3,795 posts)
SamKnause
(13,114 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)We can have differing views. The bottom line, I agree with you.
peace13
(11,076 posts)He doesn't think he should drop out, Hill doesn't think he should drop out. Fine to change your mind but drop the facade of being a supporter..
cali
(114,904 posts)than most here and I still do.
peace13
(11,076 posts)just saying.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)Merryland
(1,134 posts)
clap: : 
AuntPatsy
(9,904 posts)gifts each time, the only difference being how it gets presented with regards to the wrapping....
Needs to finish the race, we don't tell runners to give up before the finish line even if aware they have already lost first place....
So no, Sanders needs to finish this.
Tarc
(10,478 posts)Response to cali (Original post)
carolinayellowdog This message was self-deleted by its author.
KPN
(15,677 posts)If he concedes before June 7 he disappoints millions of his supporters, but especially the many who haven't yet had a chance to vote in the primary and be heard. California is a really important State for both the Ds nationally and Bernie's movement -- how does he concede and also let California have a voice in this debate about the future of the Democratic Party?
On the other hand, if he concedes sooner than later, the assumption is Bernie preserves leverage going forward. But, one has to wonder is that a legitimate assumption -- especially in light of how DWS and the DNC have responded to him throughout this campaign.
My advice to Bernie would be to come out strongly against uncivil actions by any of his supporters -- he needs to address them directly on this -- and stay in at least until June 7th.
I feel like worrying about damage to the nascent movement is a waste of energy. The establishment is going to do everything it can to squash it -- as it has already and as we saw with Occupy -- regardless of whether Bernie continues or drops out or how gracious Bernie is in defeat. The two parties have effectively controlled the electoral process for decades and are not about to let any movement break that control down without a major fight; again, regardless of how gracious Bernie is or is not. It's an uphill battle for the movement either way.
ViseGrip
(3,133 posts)Bernie MUST STAY IN THE RACE.
ViseGrip
(3,133 posts)He needs to take these THUGS out!
cali
(114,904 posts)
desmiller
(747 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Many people don't get this, but people really need to vote for the candidate of their choice in a Party in order to have the desire to vote for nominees not to their liking. It's just human nature and so playing to that is just good politics. People will go along with a collective decision that was not their personal choice but will resist that choice if not included in the decision making. This is true in politics, among friends figuring out where to go for dinner, in business and in romance. If you want people to get behind the eventual plan they need to feel included in the making of that plan. It's not a big deal, we did it for Hillary folks in 2008. It seemed to help. She has cited the large number of votes she got in 2008 and it was a very impressive number of votes. She'd not have that to cite had she shut the train down early.
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)Hillary supporter.
PufPuf23
(8,854 posts)establishment can put the party back together again"?
Hillary Clinton and the Democratic establishment is unlikely to see Sanders capitulate and support Hillary Clinton as other than weakness and no gains would be made and potential future gains diminished. A move by Sanders to concede, endorse, and campaign would likely be treated with disrespect by Clinton and much of the Democratic establishment and also perceived as Sanders abandoning supporters, especially the young. Any additional money brought into the Democratic party by Sanders would likely be used against his message to preserve not transform status quo. Sanders is not likely to be treated as loyal opposition.
In any case, Sanders should play out not just through the primaries but into the convention. Something could occur to derail the Clinton juggernaut. There was a post this AM regards to DiFi's mention of the email controversy negative to Clinton. If so, something is up.
I have expected that if Clinton is derailed, the DNC and Democratic party establishment would attempt and probably succeed in replacing Clinton with other than Sanders; Biden or the like becoming the nominee.
Unlike many others, I do not intend nor think others should leave the Democrat party but rather to persevere in removing neo-liberal and neo-conservative trends from the party and nation and focus on getting the young and like-minded into the party. However, it is perfectly fine to be in the party and not support current party leadership.
Thank you and sorry we disagree.
cali
(114,904 posts)PufPuf23
(8,854 posts)I don't see that Sanders would gain any respect or benefit from his opposition and many would feel abandoned, especially the young who have not experienced the repeated disappointments and marginalization of older anti-war liberals. Extra money raised for the Democratic party would go to stifling the movement. The money would best go directly to candidates that support the movement.
I do separate Sanders from the movement. I see the movement as one for social justice and away from neo-liberalism and neo-conservatism and that Sanders is a refreshing and surprising voice who has rose to such attention by timely circumstance.
In any case Sanders should play out the string into the convention. What would Hillary Clinton do? We already know from what occurred in 2008. Much of what is projected on Sanders were the very actions of the Clinton campaign 2008 (PUMA et al).
The Democratic establishment screwed up this primary season by treating Clinton as an incumbent and presumptive nominee before any other Democrat seriously considered a run, thus discouraging Clinton's competition from the start.
As a result there is the greatest divide in my life, even greater than 1968, in the Democratic party and IMO this is an opening for the future not a reason to leave the party. What is there to lose?
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)This started in Seatle according to some. In Berkeley according to others. It became obvious with Occupy. This is further evidence of the roiling subsurface. There are seismic forces, and there will be a major quake.
But I only follow this crap. So maybe my view is jaded by that. And unlike many here, I fully expect a Trump presidency. Alas I have taken him very seriously from the word go. And that, is also a symptom of those seismic forces. The long view.
Kip Humphrey
(4,753 posts)Bernie can walk out of what is assuredly a rigged nomination to waiting crowds ready to support him in a Independent run that all polls suggest he will win. I will be there. Too bad you won't. Please disassociate yourself from the Bernie group at your earliest convenience in order to prevent misunderstandings. Thank you for your service as far as it went. /bye.
aikoaiko
(34,186 posts)I think there is a point to showing that a solid liberal/progressive like Bernie can fight for an agenda all the way through.
Every vote he receives and every delegate he receives is a rebuke to Clintonism even after HRC reaches the magic number.
He can do all the campaigning for progressives he wants after the convention.
pengu
(462 posts)
pmorlan1
(2,096 posts)I think Bernie should keep his promise and finish the campaign. His supporters in the rest of the states deserve no less than what the rest of us have had - a chance to vote for him while he is actively campaigning. Do I fear that more lies will be told about him to drive down his votes and marginalize him and his supporters - absolutely. After Nevada it's clear what game is being played and if they want to continue down that path that's their choice and they will have to live with themselves for it. For me quitting before the end is not an option at this point. I think the consequences of quitting before the end are worse than the consequences of staying in to the end. If she loses the election the Hillary supporters will wrongfully blame Bernie either way so for me that's not even a factor.
kstewart33
(6,551 posts)As a committed Clinton supporter, I value Bernie's movement. Organizing and building the movement should be Bernie's sole focus at this point, and it begins with negotiating with Hillary before the convention for specific actions that he supports.
He has bargaining power. He should use it. However, doing everything he can to damage Hillary won't work for him. It will reduce the odds of his getting something meaningful and lasting from the convention.
The potential is there to create a movement that actually gets results - election victories at the local, state and federal level.
But that's not going to happen unless he changes course and focuses on what really matters.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Last edited Thu May 19, 2016, 01:53 PM - Edit history (1)
The Hillary Campaign's Project "Discredit him, disqualify him and unify the Party later."
http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/06/politics/hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-democrats-unity/
And then there's the Hillary campaign's Project "Bernie Lost Me," which finally explains to me a phenomenon on this board I've been mocking for months because poseurs on this board were not sufficiently skillful to pull it off . Bernie's supporters have taken the and used it for their own purposes, ending their #BernieLostMe tweets with #HillaryLostMe.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Just my own opinion with no real evidence, but that's what my gut says.
Clinton will probably reach 2026 on June 7, at which point it will be less of a firestorm if he concedes and endorses. But, hell, conceivably it could stretch to DC.
EDIT: I realized that looked like the year 2026; I meant one side reaching 2026 pledged delegates.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)and could do even more depending how he managing his exit. I think he is in a fairly strong position now to negotiate a deal for something significant. If he waits and continues bashing her and the party until the convention... he may risk losing some of that influence. We shall see how he plays this.
dragonfly301
(399 posts)Since he began he has maintained that he was in til the end - to give everyone, in every state a chance to have their vote counted, why the sudden urgency for him to drop out now? We hear from the Clinton camp on a daily basis that she has won, it shouldn't matter to have to campaign in just a few more states - she can consider them GE campaign visits. Surely she should be able to win California and NJ easily - aren't they in her map to victory? What difference will it make to have an aging Socialist Jew campaigning for democratic values in the same state as her - she doesn't have anything against democratic values, does she?
Txbluedog
(1,128 posts)The biggest problem I as a Hillary supporter have with him at this moment is that he is attacking Hillary and giving the opposition their talking points. Also, Clinton does not need to spend money in CA and NJ because they are solidly blue states, she needs to spend her time and money in toss up states
dragonfly301
(399 posts)I don't think it's "attacking" to paint a clear picture of policy differences - YMMV.
MisterP
(23,730 posts)Last edited Fri May 20, 2016, 01:00 PM - Edit history (1)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511981090
ozone_man
(4,825 posts)Hillary will not have enough pledged delegates to win with them, and there are two months left to the convention. A big win in California and elsewhere can make it even, or nearly so. Let everyone vote.
Any damage to Hillary was self inflicted. Bernie does not run negative campaigns. He tells the truth and some people think it's hell. We need more light shed on the corruption in politics, and the Clintons are about as corrupt as they come.
BootinUp
(47,211 posts)to start the transition to backing the party nominee.
riversedge
(70,441 posts)to be the loyal opposition as you say. Nothing wrong with that.
But I do think that his good will with his colleagues in Congress is running out. Just IMHO.
bobbobbins01
(1,681 posts)I think this movement is a lot stronger than you give it credit for. Yes, Hillary and the DNC are trying to destroy it, but giving them what they want would be the most likely way to kill it, especially after the shady business they're pulling. He's doing a service of exposing what the establishment will do to try and keep us down, and that will not kill the movement, on the contrary, it is part of the purging that needs to occur.
Bernie should stay in all the way.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)There's plenty of time for the Trump Clinton back and forth if she gets the nom. A few weeks don't make any difference -- and she's already started in that.
Bernie and the movement he represents -- no I don't want to see him bullied into dropping out before the primaries are done. This "shaming" of Bernie and his supporters is repression, and the way the Establishment always stifles dissenters -- or even mild critics. remember Crazy Howard Dean? .
Stopping prematurely just gives the Clinton machine more power to smash it in the future.
That makes so much sense. What happened to you?
Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)Laser102
(816 posts)Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts) 
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)And I will tell you why
Two reasons:
California. He goes that depresses turnout. I will be selfish. This is about down ballot initiatives. Not that I think my vote will count. But we need to overwhelm the natural stealing of votes for things like Prop I to well pass.
The second is delegates. He needs as many as he can get
Long term. This is not a nascent movement. It's been there for over a decade it is just more visible now. It is not going away.
JCMach1
(27,590 posts)However, I think both candidates have backed themselves into corners. Both of them have a crotchedy and testy side, we have seen it!
Someone, or something needs to talk them down. If I was in charge (LOL that would ever happen)..., a beginning to sort the end would be for Wasserman Schultz to step aside for someone who could be trusted by both sides.
Bring back Howard Dean? Or, has he been thrown under the bus already? Or, simply someone else that Progressives can trust and doesn't have any strong ties to Clintonworld.
Both sides need to de-escalate, chill out, and start some goodwill by getting rid of the DNC Chair.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Or maybe the cabinet if HRC wins. As to de escalation...the Clintons are in to destroy. The Sanders folks are in full revolt. The UN blue helmets are needed. But I suspect this will go to Cali. For the record, and I have said it a few times, I don't care who comes out in the end. I consider the election that not legitimate at this point
litlbilly
(2,227 posts)fucked as a country and possibly the world if we elect either Hillary or Trump. I wont give up on Bernie or his movement until the last vote is counted, period.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)This is much bigger than this election
Waiting For Everyman
(9,385 posts)There isn't that much time or that many races left in the Primary. I say, complete the process, including the Convention. Give everyone a chance to vote.
I want to see people make their choices in public and on the record. I want to see HRC's delegates and bigwigs treat Bernie's delegates decently. Let's see if they can do that. I want to see if they accept any of his planks for the platform.
He has 45%, nearly half of the vote, I want to see that respected.
Poor little Hillary will just have to manage until it's over.
antigop
(12,778 posts)reddread
(6,896 posts)Arazi
(6,829 posts)Her surrogates have been calling for him to be stripped of his seniority and committee positions for weeks.
The talking point today is to primary him.
The Clinton's vicious vindictiveness means Bernie already knows the handwriting is on the wall @ his future. The Democratic party disdain for him and his ideas are obvious. There's been zero effort to unify.
I'm not sure what he does after the convention but I'm dead certain the DNC and party leadership will work overtime to shut that down as well.
Frankly he doesn't have anything to lose. He has promised to let everyone vote. He has enough funds to keep getting his message out.
stillwaiting
(3,795 posts)During this primary he has opened MANY eyes, and they are furious for it.
Skwmom
(12,685 posts)
Loki
(3,825 posts)Quite a few of us had to do this in 2008. It's the adult thing to do, and it is the sane thing to do. We, none of us, can afford to allow this republican party to continue to dismantle the safety net for millions of American's and their families. The insanity and inhuman disregard for decency will morally bankrupt this country for my lifetime and perhaps longer, if Trump is elected. I care too much for my friends, family and even those I don't know, to let that happen. We have a mighty job ahead and if we all pull together, we will make a difference and set this country on the path back to sanity.
Skwmom
(12,685 posts)Let's just dig the hole deeper.
And Bernie giving into the Corporate Democrats would significantly damage what he is trying to accomplish.
Response to cali (Original post)
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