2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumBoxer: "I feared for my safety" Weaver: "No One Had The Right To Feel Threatened' At NV Convention"
Progressive Man ?@WeNeedHillary 17h17 hours agoCA-Sen Barbara Boxer: "I feared for my safety" "It was frightening, scary" at NV convention http://bit.ly/22gq6h2
TPM Livewire
Sanders Adviser: 'No One Had The Right To Feel Threatened' At NV Convention http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/weaver-nevada-convention?utm_content=bufferafba6&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)To say the least.
BootinUp
(47,211 posts)Can you?
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)Well, I'm a woman, so yes. But in Democratic politics? No, that's a new one on me.
riversedge
(70,441 posts)meant. whow.
MADem
(135,425 posts)choice of them, there.
Why is he playing spokesperson for the campaign so much lately? Didn't Sanders hire Symone Sanders as a PR mouthpiece? Why isn't she articulating the campaign message? She is NEVER seen of late clarifying campaign goals or explaining things like NV, she certainly doesn't appear to be in the inner circle.
It's almost like they WANT to be run off the stage.
Demsrule86
(68,788 posts)if some BSSer's is screaming and cursing? BSSer's can do as they want and don't have to live by the same rules of conduct as the rest of us
Dawgs
(14,755 posts)Big surprise.
Kelvin Mace
(17,469 posts)about "fearing for her life" (I think she was), and that is a legitimate criticism. But to say someone doesn't have the "right" to fear for their life, is plain stupid. Since when is fearing for your life a "right".
Weaver is not helping our cause with asinine utterances like this.
Dawgs
(14,755 posts)Kelvin Mace
(17,469 posts)Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)more propagating the bull shit - keeping the spin going
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)You'll of course, point to any specific inaccuracies in her statement, yes? Or was yours merely an implication lacking any objective or substantive evidence?
Big surprise, part two.
Dawgs
(14,755 posts)I think it's perfectly responsible to suggest that she was using the situation for political gain.
BeyondGeography
(39,393 posts)Wtf? That's a new one, Jeff. Maybe go back to running a comic book store instead of your mouth.
Cosmic Kitten
(3,498 posts)The whole episode was a STUNT
by Boxer to get media attention.
Boxer had no business in Nevada.
And assuredly, the Clinton campaign knew
there would be a kerfuffle on the floor
when they changed the rules.
Nothing but a ratfuck stunt by the
Clinton campaign.
obamanut2012
(26,181 posts)"Ratfucking stunt" -- lolz
Y'all make me lol -- thanks for that.
MADem
(135,425 posts)At the state conventions, if the principal does not appear, he/she sends a surrogate to give a speech, and that is what Boxer's role was--she was a stand-in for Clinton. Nina Turner performed the same role for Sanders.
Cosmic Kitten
(3,498 posts)It was a stunt to create a backlash
and smear the Sanders campign
once the predictable outrage
was in effect.
Lie cheat and steal is the Clinton way.
MADem
(135,425 posts)The "stunt" was their disruptive conduct.
You can keep bellowing about this until the cows come home--no one is buying it. There's a reason why Politicfact called Bernie's accusations great big honking lies, and there is a reason why everyone from the NYT, to WAPO to NEWSWEEK, to TIME to Salon to even Wonkette and the Rude Fricken Pundit have called Sanders out on his response to that debacle, and called for him to GO.
It's over. The only ones lying, cheating and stealing are the campaign that started out stealing campaign data, cheating with it, and lying about it. The post mortem of this failed revolution will show that Sanders did EVERYTHING WRONG.
davidn3600
(6,342 posts)It's always the same crap. And mostly lies and pandering.
MADem
(135,425 posts)If you're talking about what Senator Boxer intended to say (from what I understand, it was a unity speech she was intending to give), we will never know, because a pack of snarling, screeching boors prevented her from saying much of anything.
NV will be marked as the first of the ragged last breaths of the Sanders campaign. And those geniuses who fired up those delegates and sent them in there to scream and whine and bully and threaten are responsible.
I will buy the post-mortem books on this failed revolution. I'm sure there will be much to learn on how NOT to run a campaign.
davidn3600
(6,342 posts)You could listen to her speech in January and it will be identical to now. It's the same script over and over.
And it's lies because she doesn't give a damn about anyone who makes under $250k. She doesn't have any plans at all to change anything unless it benefits Wall Street. Even rich Republicans are giving money to her.
MADem
(135,425 posts)She barely speechifies at all. Instead, she spends the overwhelming amount of her time with people ANSWERING QUESTIONS.
You obviously haven't watched many (if ANY) of her town halls, if that's what you're trying to shop.
The one reciting shopworn paragraphs like a robot (or a ro-BUT) is Sanders. SSDD--over and over again. Twenty seven DOLLAHS!!!! The One puh-CENT!!!! Wo-all Street!! All complaints, no solutions.
It's pathetic, really. He hasn't been trying for months--just mailing it in. He even quoted excerpts from his stumper verbatim in debates, using snippets to escape from questions he couldn't answer with the change-the-subject game.
Thugs. Do I hear murderous scum for $1000, Alex?
And you people wonder why lifelong Democrats are quitting the party.
MADem
(135,425 posts)LOL--did that just slip out?
The people "quitting the party" are libertarians, independents, greens and Trumptrolls.
Let them go--they can vote for Gary or The Donald, or do what they do best--stay home on election day.
30. Animals.
View profile
Thugs. Do I hear murderous scum for $1000, Alex?
And you people wonder why lifelong Democrats are quitting the party.
kiva
(4,373 posts)have been using to describe the protesters...keep up with your own side's slurs, it makes your posts more effective. Murderous scum is my own invention - thugs has been used numerous times, though I admit your 'animal' is a first.
MADem
(135,425 posts)kiva
(4,373 posts)You'll find Hillary supporters using it, apparently it's now an OK word.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Demsrule86
(68,788 posts)is responsible for their own conduct period.
Demsrule86
(68,788 posts)by Bernie Sander high up campaign guys...told to take Nevada and not leave. This was reported by CNN a couple of days ago. Also what was Nina doing there? Boxer is a Clinton surrogate or did Bernie make up more rules for Clinton?
scscholar
(2,902 posts)People were angry and yelling and then there's the chair issue.
Kelvin Mace
(17,469 posts)I bet you stayed up all night picking the worst way to phrase that.
Iliyah
(25,111 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)I blame the dark turn Bernie's campaign has taken completely on him. "No right to feel threatened". Asshole.
bigtree
(86,016 posts)joshcryer
(62,287 posts)boston bean
(36,225 posts)LisaM
(27,850 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)Autumn
(45,120 posts)global climate change, lack of healthcare, crushing debt, low wages, politicians who look out for corporations, banks and Wall Street instead of the needs of the people. But hey you got a job, security and shit most Americans don't have. Now pull up your big girl panties and deal with it. If you can't handle the heat get the fuck out of the kitchen is a very old saying that fits your situation perfectly.
tonyt53
(5,737 posts)The building trades unions are still extremely strong, and all back HRC. See how that all goes down when Bernie-ites through their little fits. Oh, and those building trades unions do plan on having a presence in Philly at the convention.
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)tonyt53
(5,737 posts)Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)Geeze, Weaver.
frylock
(34,825 posts)tonyt53
(5,737 posts)My Good Babushka
(2,710 posts)Yes, we all know the comfort and security of the political class is of the utmost importance to our legislative bodies. We've seen their salaries and benefits and pensions.
kiva
(4,373 posts)(according to her own words) and was speaking to a group in an upscale hotel casino with lots of cameras and their own security.
The crowd consisted of over half middle-aged and older people. There were small children there, and people in scooters and wheelchairs...an scary bunch if even I saw them.
Good thing she's retiring, next thing you know she'll be terrified by a group of pre-schoolers.
bigtree
(86,016 posts)the truth from the General Counsel, Nevada State Democratic Party:
The explosive situation arose in large part because a portion of the community of Sanders delegates arrived at the Nevada Democratic State Convention believing itself to be a vanguard intent upon sparking a street-fight rather than attending an orderly political party process. Surprised and outraged at the idea of being out-organized and thus outnumbered in the convention hall by Clinton delegates, a portion of the Sanders delegation rushed the dais immediately upon the opening of the convention and halted the progress of any convention business for much of the day.
Indeed, every point during which Sanders delegates did not agree with any aspect of the proceedings saw them press up against the dais and scream obscenities and threats at the Chair, First Vice Chair, and any other speaker. In fact, event security provided by the Paris Las Vegas Hotel & Casino took it upon themselves to increase the security perimeter around the dais so the convention could simply move forward with its routine business in relative safety. In other words, the hour-to-hour business of Nevada Democrats was necessarily conducted in an atmosphere of impending eruption of physical threats and intimidation for more than 12 hours. Scuffles, screams from bullhorns, and profane insults marked nearly the entirety of the event. Numerous medical emergencies among delegates pressed up against the dais had to be attended to throughout the day. To the great embarrassment and revulsion of the vast majority of attendees, Sanders delegates crowded the dais and shouted down universally-respected U.S. Senator Barbara Boxer of California, who had arrived as a guest of the party to deliver a keynote address in support of former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. The Sanders Campaign spent its time either ignoring or profiting from the chaos it did much to create and nothing to diminish or mitigate. It was clear to the NSDP that part of the approach by the Sanders Campaign was to employ these easily-incensed delegates as shock troops to sway the convention proceedings. At the very least, these delegates became a way for the Sanders Campaign to seek the advantage of disruption at any particular moment while trying to disavow any responsibility for their actions even as it was ongoing. At no time did any Sanders representative make anything more than token gestures towards peace in the hall, and at the times of most intense crisis offered little more than shrugs and smirks.
The most egregious instance of the Sanders Campaign inciting disruptionand yes, violencecame as the State Conventions Credentials Committee completed its work. Adam Gillette, part of National Delegate Operations Team for the official Sanders Campaign, drafted and arranged for a member of that committee to attempt to deliver an incendiary, inaccurate, and wholly unauthorized minority report charging that the Credentials Committee had fraudulently denied 64 Sanders delegates their eligibility. The final delegate count had provided the Clinton Campaign with a 33 delegate advantage in the hall; one can imagine the rage occasioned by this inflammatory charge, tossed into the tinderbox of a tense convention hall. Not only did this discredit the work of the Credentials Committeewhich featured five Sanders delegates and five Clinton delegates and a Sanders co-chair, and who worked all day under extremely trying conditions to be fair and diligent in their dutiesit called into question the entirety of the proceedings because it indicated to an irrational minority that the proceedings had been rigged against them. Forcing their way onto the dais to deliver this paranoid fantasy of fraud and delegate theft was clearly intended to throw the proceedings into disarray.
It succeeded. From that moment on, there was little hope for any peace or mutual understanding and respect between Sanders delegates and the NSDP; the mantra became simply that the convention had been stolen from the Sanders Campaign. Never mind that six of the 64 potential Sanders delegates referenced had been seated after investigation, or that most of the remaining 58 potential delegates had been disqualifiedappropriately, and by a panel evenly split between the campaignsfor not being registered Democratic voters in Nevada. Never mind that the same Credentials Committee had disqualified Clinton delegates for various reasons as well. Never mind, further, that just eight of those 64 potential Sanders delegates even attempted to register for the State Convention. All that mattered was the creation of a narrative of fraud and dispossession, which the Sanders Campaign fomented intentionally for its own political gain. This was an unconscionable act by an official Sanders Campaign representative, with full knowledge of its likely impact on the convention.
read more: https://www.ralstonreports.com/blog/nv-democrats-file-complaint-against-sanders-campaign-dnc
Carissa WomanCard ?@bluelyon
On the left, patient @HillaryClinton supporters. On right disruptive Sanders supporters. #nvdemconvention
kiva
(4,373 posts)He left the convention early but posted the lies about chair throwing because another reporter told him it happened.
Ralston has been the culprit behind each of these falsehoods; and the New York Times, CNN, MSNBC, and a dizzying array of other outlets have swallowed them whole then regurgitated them for their much more massive audiences.
-snip-
As it turned out, Ralston finally admitted last night that he hadnt seen this himself but was relying especially on local reporter Andrew Davey. Davey first said he had still frames showing the chair throwing which he would publish. He has not produced the stills in question, but did retweet a still image of a chair held high that was initially posted on Reddit. I spoke with the person who posted it to Reddit and confirmed that it was grabbed from the video now widely seen which shows that other Sanders supporters quickly took away the chair in question. I asked Davey by Twitter if he still had photos to publish, then criticized him for retweeting the Reddit image instead. He blocked me.
-snip-
Ralston was also the source of the claim that Roberta Lange received death threats, again plural. Ralston first reported that he had received audio and text of messages received by Lange after her phone number was posted online in the aftermath of Saturdays mess. Ralston misreported the single instance that could be interpreted as a threat, however. The lede for his post on the matter simply stated: One caller suggested she would be hung or burned. The problem? When Ralston got around to posting the actual message later in the day, the caller turned out not to have said she would be hung, but rather that she should be.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511998807
bigtree
(86,016 posts)...if you're questioning the credibility of Ralston.
There really isn't any lower you can go than that. On second thought, don't take that as a dare.
kiva
(4,373 posts)I've been a registered Democrat for 40 years. I am very aware of who Jon Ralston is, and what he did in his 'coverage' of the convention. Did you read the part where he admitted that he left the convention early, but instead of acknowledging this fact he used incorrect info from another reports to make it sound as though he was there?
He chose to put his own reputation on the line to avoid admitting that he skipped out early, and I promise you this has been noticed by Nevada residents.
Do you live in Nevada?
Vinca
(50,326 posts)If I felt afraid I would have left with my security team.
MADem
(135,425 posts)There is no justifying the behavior of that angry mob.
Their conduct, as I've said elsewhere, was the first of the last ragged breaths of the Sanders "revolution."
They did their part in ensuring he will be a very small footnote in history. Like clueless people confuse Gene McCarthy with Joe McCarthy, clueless people in the future--maybe on this very board--will confuse Bernie Sanders with Colonel Sanders, and believe that the beginning of the end of his campaign was that he couldn't "win his own state of Kentucky!"
Vinca
(50,326 posts)This was the most overblown story in recent memory. People at the event, even Hillary supporters, say things were not on the up and up. The "chair throwing" ended up being one guy who picked up a chair and then set it down. But what a great story for Hillary supporters. Bernie people are dangerous maniacs. We don't want anything to do with them . . . until November. Then we love them. In the end it's not going to matter since Trump already has a 5 point lead on her. We're so screwed running an insider in an outsider year.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Since the number of delegates was close to equally divided, and it takes a 2/3 majority to change anything, all that yelling, screaming and bullying did was delay the proceedings by four hours and accomplish nothing save show the Sanders campaign to be a cadre of boors occupying a Potemkin Village that can't even GOTV.
Sanders is getting calls from all the leadership in the Dem party, and he'd better take their counsel to heart, because if he doesn't, he just may discover that his enthusiasm for primaries might extend to his own in 2018. And he'd better take his Feel The Bern list with him, because his Senate peers will be disinclined to help him in the massive way they did back in 06.
GHW Bush was so confident he'd win in 92 that he barely left the White House. So much for polls.
The only "we" that are "screwed" are those who gather around that Asswipe Trump.
Vinca
(50,326 posts)He might have felt some loyalty to the Democratic Party when this adventure started, but he's been treated so badly I don't think he does now. Guess that's what happens when you get in the way of a coronation.
MADem
(135,425 posts)for a an eight year (with a referendum at the four year mark) term. They both end at the same time.
He's already filed with the SEC for the 2018 bid, so I don't think he thinks he's too old.
Far be it from me to tell anyone they're too old to do anything. I think that's probably not very productive.
He didn't "get in the way of a coronation." He made his case, and thus far he's come up short by MILLIONS OF VOTES.
LOUDEST isn't a substitute for ballot casting--it never has been.
He lost. He just needs to deal with that and stop blaming everyone save himself.
Vinca
(50,326 posts)It's a younger person's game. As a person of Hillary's age, I'm concerned about a number of things. A person of their age is not as sharp as a person of Obama's age, for example. There are little lapses in memory that aren't full blown senile dementia, but not really what you want in the leader of the free world. And, of course, there is an energy issue. I've seen Hillary being helped up the stairs into a plane and I can't imagine Bernie is playing basketball all the time. I would have preferred it if we had been offered a large roster of candidates for the office, but the party seemed to intentionally clear the field for Hillary, so it wasn't to be.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Clinton by two years and just 4 years younger than the 74 year old Sanders, but no one crabbed about his age--was it the young wives, or the dyed hair, that fooled people, I wonder?) or the new-agey and thoughtful Linc Chaffee (5 years younger than Hillary). Joe Biden (73) might have had ambitions, but he's had two brain surgeries, has run twice and couldn't get out of single digits, and he is regarded as a great bridesmaid but a poor bride. Way too much baggage. Neil Kinnock, Anita Hill, coming from the Credit Card state, etc.--plus, he's "gassy" -- and his enthusiasm for chat and bonhomie can get his ("big fucking deal" mouth out ahead of himself at times.
Those guys just got the hand when they promenaded on the runway--it wasn't the fault of the party, or a desire for "coronation," either--the voters simply didn't want 'em. They didn't like what they were selling. The voters decided that the other ones just weren't different enough to matter, and they narrowed it down in short order. Clinton is the heir to Obama, and Sanders (who has not been aggressively vetted yet) represents "change" of some amorphous sort. And Trump (70, vetting underway now) is a lunatic.
And no one else wants the job--it's thankless. If you are a candidate, you're investigated up the wazoo, every detail of your past is turned over and examined and you spend all your time on the defensive. If you're a serious candidate, you have to stay focused, if you're unserious, like Trump, you just keep lying and bullshitting.
Plus, at the end of the day, no matter what team you play for (Dem or GOP), there's always a legislature that is half full of (from your point of view) assholes that wish you ill. Of course, in the case of Trump, the legislature would be entirely full of legislators with at least half a clue who wished him ill, or at least wanted to try to use that egomaniac for their purposes.
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)redstateblues
(10,565 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)You'd probably need to be aware of "KFC culture" though, because there's no bucket o'chicken in the pic!
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)to insist how people are allowed to feel, or not. Seriously? That has to be too stupid. Who the hell is he to tell others what they are allowed to feel in that situation. What an ass.
oldandhappy
(6,719 posts)instead of 10 am and no one had the right to mess up parking and no one had the right to strip people of voting rights and no one had the right to lie about chairs and and and...
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)They waited nearly 40 minutes AFTER the scheduled start time to try to let the Bernie delegates get there. The Hillary delegates were there. You think they had special parking for Hillary delegates and the Bernie people had to park further away?
For heaven's sake.
oldandhappy
(6,719 posts)auntpurl
(4,311 posts)dragonfly301
(399 posts)I think not - I think she looks like "mission accomplished".
https://mobile.twitter.com/TrampyKnight/status/733288848008978432
bigtree
(86,016 posts)...
Skwmom
(12,685 posts)apnu
(8,759 posts)Who the fuck is this guy to say what rights people have and their personal safety.
And Sanders people wonder why Hillary has such strong support with women.
Fuck you, Weaver.
Number23
(24,544 posts)had to deal with" but I like what you said better.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)Because she felt scared?