2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumWhen we say Hillary is a terrible candidate and you say "Well she beat Bernie..."
I hope you are able to understand that we are talking about the GE.
I mean you get that, right? Right?
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)... so keep your fingers crossed and hope that happens, I guess.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)libdem4life
(13,877 posts)So smug.
griffi94
(3,733 posts)But if you thought Bernie was going to be our nominee
then your judgement is a but suspect.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)griffi94
(3,733 posts)Bernie lost.
Hillary will be our nominee.
Sorry but votes matter.
Typos...not so much. Lol.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)griffi94
(3,733 posts)no votes have been cast in the GE.
Bernie is hundreds of delegates and millions of votes behind.
There aren't enough states left for him to close the gap.
Hillary needs about 100 more delegates to clinch.
Those are facts.
Your link is to an opinion poll for an election that is 6 months out.
The campaign for the GE hasn't even started yet.
Bernie isn't going to be the nominee.
Sorry.
Maybe you should start working on getting used to it.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)You should inform the Sanders campaign of an irrelevant typo as it may assist his efforts more so than his current enterprises.
Or, the typo is merely irrelevant and pointing towards it as somehow material is merely another exercise is grade school petulance.
(space provided free of charge below to rationalize petulance as righteous, pure and noble...)
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)Post makes no sense.
Demsrule86
(68,788 posts)Your post is condescending.
FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)and yes that does count
griffi94
(3,733 posts)It's still not going to make Bernie the nominee because
he's getting beat by hundreds of delegates and millions of votes.
brush
(53,971 posts)Trump and the Trojan Horse.
mia
(8,363 posts)Hillary is an admirable human being who must be at war with her conscience.
timmymoff
(1,947 posts)she is having a hard time keeping track of them now. It's easier to just tell the truth.
ViseGrip
(3,133 posts)mythology
(9,527 posts)Please stop repeating such an obviously incorrect talking point.
Sanders mostly wins caucuses which have much lower turnout.
2banon
(7,321 posts)different animal
mythology
(9,527 posts)That Sanders would win if independents were allowed to vote.
Also general election polls this far out are useless. So any contention that Sanders would win the general election is just blind supposition.
And finally the way to get to the general election is to win the primary. Sanders won't do that.
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)On the middle class and Bernie's approval rate would be in the teens. The last democrat to run on raising taxes on the middle class won one State
FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)redstateblues
(10,565 posts)Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)brush
(53,971 posts)w4rma
(31,700 posts)That's not a false hypothetical.
And then there is the fact that she isn't trusted by even a majority of Americans.
Why Voters Don't Trust Hillary Clinton
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2015/07/28/why_voters_dont_trust_hillary_clinton_127567.html
griffi94
(3,733 posts)She beat Bernie in the primary so it
doesn't really matter how Bernie polls
against Trump in the GE.
Bernie isn't goint to be our nominee.
Polls could show that Bernie beats Trump by 100%
But Bernie isn't going to run against Trump
because Hillary is going to be out nominee.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)griffi94
(3,733 posts)If she loses to Trump that will suck.
But if more people vote for Trump then oh well.
That's how it works.
The most votes win.
Bernie didn't get the most votes.
How he polls in hypothetical matches with Trump
are irrelevent.
Like who would win in a fight between Batman and some other comic book character.
It's not going to happen so it doesn't matter.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)Unlike your responses.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)A lot of us are just going to stand on the sidelines and watch and what you will need is Us in with you fighting the fight
As for myself I'll be on the sidelines and voting down ticket she's already said through her supporters that she doesn't need my vote
And their actions bear that out
Zorro
(15,756 posts)then Bernie is an even more terrible candidate for the GE.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)Zorro
(15,756 posts)Not hard when they're 3 million votes behind in the primaries.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)anigbrowl
(13,889 posts)Sorry but watching you lecture other people about logic is pretty amusing.
demwing
(16,916 posts)If it weren't so saddening, bless your soul!
I must be completely lacking in the awareness that Clinton is leading Bernie by millions of votes in the primaries, and will bring in millions more of Republican voters in the GE who can't stand the idea of Trump as their nominee.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)Facts are stubborn.
Zorro
(15,756 posts)That's a well-established fact.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)Although the numbers may shift somewhat, the comparison of the head to heads of Sanders VS. Trump and Hillary VS. Trump of course have great meaning.
Zorro
(15,756 posts)Yes, I'm certain the numbers would shift somewhat.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)Zorro
(15,756 posts)over his past engagements with various "left wing" Latin American miscreants who have been unfriendly to the USA.
Fair or not, I think Bernie's poll numbers would nosedive in short order once that assault starts. And no amount of Bernie bluster will be able to counteract it.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)Yup, your opinion doesn't carry much weight in that matchup either.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)Not sure I'm willing to take that as a given...
2banon
(7,321 posts)Zorro
(15,756 posts)He'd then rake Bernie over the coals about his illegitimate son, and as soon as Bernie begins waving his finger around Trump would interrupt and mock him with some quip like "Hey, you trying to poke my eye out or something?" and from there on out that's what would stick in peoples' minds.
Bernie's popularity would drop like a rock after such a one-on-one with Trump.
demwing
(16,916 posts)Clinton does well only with a subset of the Dem party.
And your lack of awareness may be limitless, for we can tell...
BootinUp
(47,211 posts)Bonobo
(29,257 posts)brooklynite
(94,950 posts)...somehow you don't seem to understand the same thing about Bernie:
A self-described Socialist proposing huge tax increases
an ideological fringe candidate seeking votes from a middle of the road electorate
a candidate unable to frame a contemporary foreign policy message at a time of growing unease about US vulnerability to terrorism, and who appears largely uninterested in the subject
a candidate unable to relate to African Americans, a significant share of the Democratic base
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)Or are you going to repeat the rather stale "It doesn't mean anything at this point."?
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)uponit7771
(90,371 posts)amborin
(16,631 posts)Bonobo
(29,257 posts)onecaliberal
(32,991 posts)anotherproletariat
(1,446 posts)by the GOP, that he would be a far worse candidate. At least with Hillary, we knew the attacks they had in mind, and she has weathered them in the past. The Democrats have never defended a candidate from charges of being socialist, atheist, tax happy, pro-pot with no foreign policy experience. Given the current conservative mood of most of the country, that seemed like a much bigger climb.
I still feel this way. This is the biggest reason I don't think the polls done now are of any value. No one has ever run a negative ad against any of these qualities of Sanders, and until they do, the polls are not accurate.
amborin
(16,631 posts)d_legendary1
(2,586 posts)"The Democrats have never defended a candidate from charges of being socialist, atheist, tax happy, pro-pot with no foreign policy experience."
Wasn't Obama a Marxist, Muslim, tax and spend, pro-crack cocaine smoking liberal with no foreign policy experience?
Jack Bone
(2,023 posts)BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)are just so incomprehensibly ignorant.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)and I am not kidding.
John Poet
(2,510 posts)Illustration of what I've long suspected: Hillary's backers will excuse or even support any nutjob position that they even think SHE espouses--
I think they are known as 'low information voters'....
imari362
(311 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Seeing as it's still 1973, and all.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)You are terribly wrong on this point as well.
The mood is Populist.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)coming until it was right up under their noses, too.
The David Brock, beltway 'conventional wisdom' crowd was telling them that the all-powerful values voter would have none of it, until it simply was too big to ignore.
That's why so many politicians (cough) have painfully embarrassing anti-marriage equality statements from just 5-10 years ago, to explain away or live down.
Millennials are pushing the "mood" of this country in a far more progressive direction than it has ever been before, and ironically it is the boomers, by and large, who are losing their shit over it.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)It's always hard to accept the fact that you have aged and your "Progressive spirit" mellowed into rather rigid conservatism like your parents but accentuated with the trappings and mementos of "liberal-ishiness".
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)No one has ever "vetted" her publicly on these, so it automatically goes back to the rest as even more negatives. She Is Not Trusted. EOS. To say she's the best of the two evils is about all that is possible.
Bernie's years in the Senate and years of getting elected and holding office...on his own...would overshadow any of the attacks. Plus, he doesn't fight. He does a judo move, and steps aside from the smears, and then just continues his message.
Oh, he does point...at least not in the chest of someone asking him questions.
Demsrule86
(68,788 posts)increasingly shrill and spiteful candidate.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)Is it likely? Yes. Is it foolproof...lots of water still going under. And how, with the Primaries still ongoing, do you use the past tense? "beat...as opposed to beating." Must be a lack of grammar training.
Written with love and kindness...the last part, free grammar check.
ContinentalOp
(5,356 posts)She won the most open primaries, the most closed primaries, the most red states, the most blue states, the most swing states, and most of the bigger states with lots of electoral votes. By what measure does a GE help Bernie? Do you think millions of Republicans are suddenly going to wake up, realize they nominated Trump, and decide to vote for a socialist?
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)Huh?
ContinentalOp
(5,356 posts)Clinton has won more open primaries, more closed primaries, red states, blue states, and swing states. What advantage would a GE suddenly give Bernie that would radically change his performance from where it's been in the primaries? The only area he excels in is caucuses which are nothing like a GE at all.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)ContinentalOp
(5,356 posts)elleng
(131,370 posts)and appear NOT to recognize the importance of CHANGE this time. Dems don't run a 'change' candidate, what happens? DUH?!
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)so you probably know that this theme of her weakness in a GE has been there for MONTHS... before polling.
So riddle me this one How can people are not in the US, see her weakness miles, even stellar units away, but Americans can't? I got a theory, and i think part of it is the US med... err propaganda machine, which today did turn on a fucking dime. Yup, they are going there NOW... MONTHS AFTER foreign media (and to be fair Foreign Policy) did.
Oh and I do hope you are doing fine these days.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)I have not seen MSNBC or CNN in years and years.]
I am doing well, Nadin, thank you for saying that. I hope you are too.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)speaking of CNN. I was with mom for one of the primaries. And it was one of the most surreal experiences ever. We were watching CNN-I, pretty good actually. So the reporter from the Sanders rally explains the numbers, how the primaries work... gives a delegate count not including super delegates. I mean a good solid, neutral report, Informative too. I actually learned stuff.
Ten minutes later they go to wolf to do the returns from Atlanta. Same reporter, same report. but this time he included the supers and added a lot of shall we say, lovely guiding opinion. I sat there for ten minutes STUNNED
And since we did cover the Sanders rally in San Diego, I was able to tell the reporter that I loved his work on CNN-I, but his work on CNN was kind of shoddy. and why. The producer was pissed. The rest of the news media there listened and asked questions. Especially the young ones. A few did not even know CNN had international operations.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)Americans are treated like idiots... and they become idiots as a result.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)People are treated like children, and they actually are not aware of it.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)he'll split the CDS vote with Trump and lose again.
Snarkoleptic
(6,002 posts)Doesn't that voting population mimic the overall electorate?
Demsrule86
(68,788 posts)will lose the GE...if they were 'selected' like Bush. Bernie has not been vetted.